View Full Version : Have you, would you?
A question popped into my head today thinking of my past and future hiking plans. Has or would anyone pay for help preparing for a hike? Things like getting in shape/training and logistical planning for a multi-day hike.
No and no but if the price is right I will be your personal hiking trainer. In fact, I would even accompany you on you hike and provide motivation..... For a price.
FarmerChef
03-17-2014, 19:07
Not me. Then again, I'm a big do-it-yourselfer. I mean, if someone wanted to do it really bad, had the money but not the time to get prepared on their own I could see it. Kinda like hiring an expedition leader and sherpas to help you summit Everest. But, really, the AT is a long mental struggle more than what equipment to buy or how in shape you are when you start. My back of the napkin estimation is that the folks that succeed are more of those who figure it out along the way and keep going rather than those that researched it to death and bought all the right gear the first time around.
Nuh uh. I enjoy doing my own research, both book-learning and in the field. But I'm kinda compulsive and obsessive. I over-think and over-engineer everything. Hardly anything left to chance. :rolleyes: Here's a thing I wrote up a tad over 24 years ago, written partly as a joke.
Title: FUNCTIONAL SPECIFICATION FOR A 2100-MILE HIKE. Much if it is "dead wrong" by current standards and practice... but at least I'd given the topic some thought before diving in. Couldn't imagine someone else doing that for me.
lonehiker
03-17-2014, 19:18
Nuh uh. I enjoy doing my own research, both book-learning and in the field. But I'm kinda compulsive and obsessive. I over-think and over-engineer everything. Hardly anything left to chance. :rolleyes: Here's a thing I wrote up a tad over 24 years ago, written partly as a joke.
Title: FUNCTIONAL SPECIFICATION FOR A 2100-MILE HIKE. Much if it is "dead wrong" by current standards and practice... but at least I'd given the topic some thought before diving in. Couldn't imagine someone else doing that for me.
Ya, OCD for sure. But, I think SGT Rock has you beat. If I remember right he had spreadsheets galore. What really got me was his number of sheets of toilet paper per resupply.
TP is the real currency in the woods. That's where I first heard TP referred to as Mountain Money.
Slo-go'en
03-17-2014, 19:26
Warren Doyle has an AT school which prepares people for hiking the AT, so yes, people will pay to get professional help. He provided both class room instruction and practical hands on experiance with 3-4 day hikes.
TP is the real currency in the woods. That's where I first heard TP referred to as Mountain Money.
So should I be asking has or would anyone pay for a TP resupply on the trail?:)
But, really, the AT is a long mental struggle more than what equipment to buy or how in shape you are when you start. My back of the napkin estimation is that the folks that succeed are more of those who figure it out along the way and keep going rather than those that researched it to death and bought all the right gear the first time around.
I can certainly agree and relate to this, but gear does matter. Or more to the point: keeping it light matters. There's just no denying that, especially for us oldsters.
Last Call
03-17-2014, 19:44
For the life of me I can never understand why someone with no backpacking experience wants to tackle the AT right out of the gate. I backpacked for many years before I even set foot on the AT; it's not like there is a shortage of trails, there are even much more scenic trails in the Southeastern U.S. to experience. In other words, why not save the AT for when you have at least SOME experience and can appreciate it better?
mtntopper
03-17-2014, 19:52
Maybe they experience it better without having any experience.
For the life of me I can never understand why someone with no backpacking experience wants to tackle the AT right out of the gate. I backpacked for many years before I even set foot on the AT; it's not like there is a shortage of trails, there are even much more scenic trails in the Southeastern U.S. to experience. In other words, why not save the AT for when you have at least SOME experience and can appreciate it better?
Last Call
03-17-2014, 19:58
Maybe they experience it better without having any experience.
Well, I reckon if one enjoys blistered feet & aching backs, along with ruined expectations, then more power to 'em!
Just Bill
03-17-2014, 20:05
People have sorta paid me for outdoors education.
As others mentioned- LD hiking specific is a little more rare as most folks want to learn for themselves.
If your thought was- "can I make any money doing what I already like doing?"
Yes. Realistically though many services exist so what can you offer that they don't?
I leveraged my time in Scouts to become a Merit Badge instructor and guest instructor for my local council (A dozen or so troops). I sold gear related to what I taught and that's how I got paid. Some classes were pretty well free, some were good money makers but it was basically a part time gig. Climbing Merit Badge was a money maker but I also had to go out for a weekend with each troop to make the money... so per hour, not so great. But it was fun and I learned alot from the experience. Camping, Backpacking, Wilderness Survival were all popular badges. On the flipside so was orienteering- tough to make money selling 20 compasses at 50 cents a piece profit.:)
mtntopper
03-17-2014, 20:14
So how much experience does one have to have before they don't have blistered feet, aching backs and ruined expectations? Just how many miles do they need to hike off the AT before they can attempt a thru hike? Inquiring minds want to know.
Well, I reckon if one enjoys blistered feet & aching backs, along with ruined expectations, then more power to 'em!
Last Call
03-17-2014, 20:18
So how much experience does one have to have before they don't have blistered feet, aching backs and ruined expectations? Just how many miles do they need to hike off the AT before they can attempt a thru hike? Inquiring minds want to know.
I'd say quite a bit.
mtntopper
03-17-2014, 20:20
Thanks for that bit of wisdom.
I'd say quite a bit.
Last Call
03-17-2014, 20:23
Only trying to be helpful!
Lone Wolf
03-17-2014, 20:23
A question popped into my head today thinking of my past and future hiking plans. Has or would anyone pay for help preparing for a hike? Things like getting in shape/training and logistical planning for a multi-day hike.
no. walkin' the AT doesn't warrant this
HikerMom58
03-17-2014, 20:28
TP is the real currency in the woods. That's where I first heard TP referred to as Mountain Money.
If I ran out of TP in the woods, I'd use a huge leaves. I've done it before.
Just don't let me run out of the body wipes. I'd pay through the nose for one of those. :p
fredmugs
03-17-2014, 22:08
Warren Doyle has an AT school which prepares people for hiking the AT, so yes, people will pay to get professional help. He provided both class room instruction and practical hands on experiance with 3-4 day hikes.
After reading Skywalker's book the last thing I would do is ask Warren Doyle. Then again I don't need any help.
Slo-go'en
03-17-2014, 22:22
After reading Skywalker's book the last thing I would do is ask Warren Doyle. Then again I don't need any help.
I've meet a number of people who have taken his course and they all said it was well worth it. If you have no experiance and no clue, this can help a lot. It can also help one decide if this is something you really want to do or not. (thru hike that is) I have never meet Warren and have no interest in his course, but it is something which has helped a lot of people so I'm not going to knock it.
WingedMonkey
03-17-2014, 22:56
Has or would anyone pay for help preparing for a hike?
I suppose if you count the amount of money spent on books and other media produced by other people telling you how to hike, a lot of folks are paying to prepare.
Or to cyber-hike.
:rolleyes:
Shutterbug
03-17-2014, 23:27
It probably isn't exactly what you have in mind, but I pay a "Direct Practice" cardiologist to keep me in hiking condition. Most doctors do a good job of treating their patients when they get sick, but only a few focus on keeping their patients well.
I decided a couple of years ago that I won't age gracefully. I am going to fight to stay active as long as possible and I am paying a doctor to help.
http://www.choicecardiovascular.com/
Carryless
03-18-2014, 00:35
Bob Gabrielson runs Appalachian Wilderness Guides and also just opened a hiker hostel 8 mile south o NC border (Top Of Georgia @Dicks Creek Gap). He offers the exact training you are pondering. I have viewed many of his YouTube tutorials about the AT and feel he has a lot to offer both neophytes and experienced hikers. If I were closer to his market area, I would consider his paid services, despite my many years of experience.
Hill Ape
03-18-2014, 01:37
no, i would not pay someone for backpacking training. seems like a nice racket though. i can see where it could be beneficial to a newbie. now a seminar, or speech, by doyle might interest me. i paid to do a group ride with phil liggett in france, included food, hotel, nightly chat session, it turned out to be really interesting
Trailweaver
03-18-2014, 02:25
Not backpacking training per se, but. . . after several injuries (torn rotator cuff, back surgrey, and broken leg with a long recovery/complications), I have paid quite a bit for physical therapy and rehab. This last one (leg), I've had PT for 7 months. As I have recovered, I specifically asked the therapist to help me focus on the muscles and stretching that would help me hike more efficiently and with less chance of injury. So yes, I think I have paid for help with backpacking.
I take Warren Doyle at his word when he informs that 75% of his ATI graduates complete the AT.
One could argue the reasons for that all day long, but the numbers are compelling-- especially when you consider that virtually 100% of those hiking with him in his "Circle Expeditions" make it al the way.
As for this course being a "nice racket" I am no sure that is altogether fair. $300 for 5 days is a lot of money, but seems reasonable for what you get. http://warrendoyle.com/ATI.html
It's what you learn after you know it all that counts... :)
I'd be interested in tagging along on one of Andrew Skurka's trips for the experience - those are fairly pricey I think.
Old Man Joe
03-18-2014, 07:40
For the life of me I can never understand why someone with no backpacking experience wants to tackle the AT right out of the gate. I backpacked for many years before I even set foot on the AT; it's not like there is a shortage of trails, there are even much more scenic trails in the Southeastern U.S. to experience. In other words, why not save the AT for when you have at least SOME experience and can appreciate it better?
Hadn't walked with a pack on my back since the Army, 40 years earlier. Had never backpack camped, just some car camping. Even though I love walking in the woods, I'd never done any long distance walking in the woods. I guess I didn't have any experience. Yet, I fully enjoyed my thru-hike. Not sure having "SOME experience" would have made it better. In fact, I probably enjoyed it more since it was all new to me. I just decided I wanted to attempt something difficult to see if I could do it, chose a thru-hike, and went for it. I imagine a lot of people do the same thing.
Drybones
03-18-2014, 08:09
It's kinda sad when I see people come to the gym, looking halfway fit anyway, get a personal trainer and after 6 months they've gained weight and look much worse off than when they started...don't understand it.
I've seen plenty of "prepared" hikers give up, and unprepared, insane, foolhardy hikers push on through. That's not to say that preparation is useless or stupid by any means, but it's no guarantee.
88BlueGT
03-18-2014, 09:21
If you could read my mind and know what foods I liked. I MIGHT pay you to package some mail drops for me and send them out... that's about it
I suppose if you count the amount of money spent on books and other media produced by other people telling you how to hike, a lot of folks are paying to prepare.
Or to cyber-hike.
:rolleyes:
True that. Many indirect costs. Trips to the library for hiking-related books, for those who can't afford them, or for books out of print. I'm thinking pre-Internet days. :D I've bought at least two editions of Colin Fletchers's books.
Hadn't walked with a pack on my back since the Army, 40 years earlier. Had never backpack camped, just some car camping. Even though I love walking in the woods, I'd never done any long distance walking in the woods. I guess I didn't have any experience. Yet, I fully enjoyed my thru-hike. Not sure having "SOME experience" would have made it better. In fact, I probably enjoyed it more since it was all new to me. I just decided I wanted to attempt something difficult to see if I could do it, chose a thru-hike, and went for it. I imagine a lot of people do the same thing.
and the the vast majority of them go home after a few days or weeks. You are the exception, I would never advocate this approach to others.
Sarcasm the elf
03-18-2014, 16:18
A question popped into my head today thinking of my past and future hiking plans. Has or would anyone pay for help preparing for a hike? Things like getting in shape/training and logistical planning for a multi-day hike.
Personally no, for me figuring it out is part of the fun.
That said, there really is a market for this kind of thing. Think of NOLS, Outward Bound, or the many similar outdoor schools, or simply google "Guided Adventure trips" to get an idea of the kind of services offered and the sort of demand that exists. You would have to figure out how all of this would translate into services that centered around the A.T., but the evidence shows that some people do want this sort of help.
I donated to White Blaze since it has been an invaluable resource for planning my upcoming hike. Does that count? ;)
... Has or would anyone pay for help preparing for a hike? Things like getting in shape/training and logistical planning for a multi-day hike.
YES, absolutely. It happens quite regularly if you think about it. I've paid others for these services and I've been paid for providing these services to others. Not everyone wings it in the outdoors backpacking, paddling, camping, climbing, trekking, training, mountaineering, cycling, skiing, snowboarding, etc. Some actually pay for these services in preparation to safely, enjoyably, timely, and conveniently experience these activities.
As far as Warren's AT course, which I've never attended, the results of those that take the class are proof that Warren is certainly helping those who spent the time to take his class.
Last Call
03-18-2014, 17:50
The problem with the concept is there would need to be an official certification process; which sadly, I can't think of an appropriate agency which would qualify to offer that. The good thing is after certification you would have your badge to proudly let everyone know you are well qualified to be in the woods alone.
I consider myself an experienced long distance hiker, mostly in the U.S. though, and decent/OK outdoorsman but the first thing I know is that I don't know everything and I never will. That's why I will continue to seek out gaining knowledge and wisdom in my activities. Sometimes, this means I choose, or need to, monetarily pay for them. I paid my monetary dues in Boyscouts, paid for a 8 day group NOLS hike, paid for SCUBA classes, paid for kayaking basics lessons on the water, was willing to be an unpaid volunteer camp gopher on Colorado River rafting trips, paid for Survival courses, paid for First Responder classes, paid for parachuting, paid to learn how to ride a horse by doing camp/farm chores, paid an experienced snow boarder's expenses for a weekend for him to teach me snowboarding(I still suck at it though), paid for caving tours/guides, paid for hunter education classes, pay for the access to and comraderie of those who know much more than me at shooting ranges, paid for experienced local knowledge(especially local guide services), bought a case of beer and a steak dinner to someone who taught me how to fly fish, etc. This, and many other things I've paid for in one way or another, besides learning and researching, sometimes extensively, on my own.
NO the only thing that will get you ready for the AT is the AT itself.
NO the only thing that will get you ready for the AT is the AT itself.
The stats for AT thru-hiker completion rates that complete Warren's class pre AT thru-hike attempt suggest otherwise.
bamboo bob
03-18-2014, 18:30
For the life of me I can never understand why someone with no backpacking experience wants to tackle the AT right out of the gate. I backpacked for many years before I even set foot on the AT; it's not like there is a shortage of trails, there are even much more scenic trails in the Southeastern U.S. to experience. In other words, why not save the AT for when you have at least SOME experience and can appreciate it better?
My first day backpacking was on Springer Mountain. I can read and write, so I researched the trail. I overcame lots of problems but I enjoyed the research and the on trail learning. By now I have backpacked more miles than most people ever think possible when they first wander north from Springer. I prefer learning on my own. I'm not much good at having others decide what is best for me. So my view on hiring so called "experts" is that I think it is mainly for the same people that hire an interior decorator to tell them what picture to put over the couch.
Now the AT is hardly "the back country" so No I would never pay someone to learn what I can figure out for myself. Maybe some young people just cannot do anything without the nanny coach. I think they are much the worse for it.
The stats for AT thru-hiker completion rates that complete Warren's class pre AT thru-hike attempt suggest otherwise.
To be fair, there's a filtering process there as well. I imagine a few folks were dissuaded by that class from even trying a thru-hike.
Thanks for all the feedback. It's pretty much what I expected here as far as gathering info and experience independently. But I also hear there is a possibly niche market out there.
Last Call
03-18-2014, 21:13
Perhaps the Boy Scouts would be a good organization for certifying hikers, surely they would have the experts to write/publish the course curriculum for wayfinding, woodsmanship, survival techniques, fitness, proper nutrition, knot tying, etc.
HikerMom58
03-18-2014, 21:54
Just saw this today from someone on the trail this year....
"Saw lots of hiker unprepared. Including one with no tent and 2 guys with a fishing net.hey were going to catch all their meals. Miss Janet and I gave them food"
"This kid with no tent didn't have a stove either. and 1 and 1/2 days of food"
"did he have a tarp or something at least?"
"No he said he was told he could sleep in the shelters."
"His sleeping bag was a liner."
Luckily, my friend and others had his back. I think backpacking classes are needed & maybe should be required for some? I don't know what that would look like though. Thankfully, they don't die out there! :D
lonehiker
03-18-2014, 22:08
NO the only thing that will get you ready for the AT is the AT itself.
Any backpacking experience preps you for the AT. Everyone has a first backpacking trip where ever that may be.
lonehiker
03-18-2014, 22:11
Just saw this today from someone on the trail this year....
I think backpacking classes are needed & maybe should be required for some? I don't know what that would look like though. Thankfully, they don't die out there! :D
And who will decide which "some" need the class?
Last Call
03-18-2014, 23:45
Probably would have to based on the honor system as to who would be required to take the course; with existing experienced hikers grandfathered in, of course.
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You are right Rafe yet it's my illusion, and my discussions with all who have completed Warren's AT Class prior to their AT thru-hike attempt as their first long distance hike of that magnitude have universally confirmed this, completing Warren's Class ALWAYS has helped AT thru-hiker wanna bees to complete their anticipated AT thru-hikes. Being personally exposed to someone like Warren in an AT goal oriented hands on class covering actual hikes, logistical preparations, mental aspects of hiking, etc is going to help people especially AT hikers with a focus on thru-hiking manage themselves and their hikes. It's my illusion if more AT wanna do a thru-hikers took Warren's class they would have more enjoyable hikes and be more likely to complete their hikes.
I wouldn't pay for a coach or guide, but I did spend a fair amount on books, and for a subscription to the backpacking.light website. I did quite a few practice/shakedown hikes to test out gear before major sections. I always had hiking figured as a learn-by-doing kind of thing.
Come to think of it there aren't too many other activities where I've paid for physical training. A few ski lessons, here and there. And various martial arts classes, way back when. My wife takes lots of dance (ballet) lessons. She's a believer.
I tried out whatever I saw that looked promising. At some point (around 2000-2002) I noticed that nearly 100% of the thru-hikers I saw were using modern lightweight poles. From Warren (second-hand or third-hand) I got the idea of lighting my stove once per day. In Vermont I saw kids traveling with very little food in their packs, but scampering off the trail wherever a quick food-acquisition opportunity came up. Near Andover, ME I rediscovered the delights of walking the AT without a full pack. My stove and kitchen evolved. My tent got lighter. Everything got lighter, except me.
My first day backpacking was on Springer Mountain. I can read and write, so I researched the trail.
I get that. But I cannot help but wonder if there is more to your background that might have helped provide a foundation for your success. In particular, time spent outdoors walking thru the woods, hunting, canoeing, rock hounding or such. Or perhaps car camping at national parks or biking to work everyday or some of those unique kinds of experiences one collects over a lifetime that help in future persuits.
For my part, I hade very little "backpacking" experience before starting out, but I had done a shakedown weekend, and I had also spent a good deal of time in the scouts where we did handful of 5 mile hikes.
But scouts did give me a level of comfort in the outdoors, and I think that mattered a great deal, as did my mothers love for the natural world that she somehow passed on. Did you have anything in your background that you drew upon to help you down the trail those first weeks and months?
A question popped into my head today thinking of my past and future hiking plans. Has or would anyone pay for help preparing for a hike? Things like getting in shape/training and logistical planning for a multi-day hike.
..........
26422
takethisbread
03-19-2014, 19:33
My first day backpacking was on Springer Mountain. I can read and write, so I researched the trail. I overcame lots of problems but I enjoyed the research and the on trail learning. By now I have backpacked more miles than most people ever think possible when they first wander north from Springer. I prefer learning on my own. I'm not much good at having others decide what is best for me. So my view on hiring so called "experts" is that I think it is mainly for the same people that hire an interior decorator to tell them what picture to put over the couch.
Now the AT is hardly "the back country" so No I would never pay someone to learn what I can figure out for myself. Maybe some young people just cannot do anything without the nanny coach. I think they are much the worse for it.
I think u would have to admit this is so extreme, it's absurd. why would anyone research and plan a thruhike without even know they enjoy backpacking? reckless even. I'm glad your first experience worked out, and I'm sure many others like yours didn't.
I've been backpacking for years , and still unsure I will like thruhiking, but despite my experience I love to hear others perspectives and techniques. I most certainly would pay to hear somebody speak on it, though living on an island has precluded that from happening so far. but if warren doyle or Jennifer Pharr Davis or even paul Magnanti came to speak on my island I would most certainly pay a few bucks to hear them speak or do a demo. around here you don't see many great hikers, but lots of great boatman and fishermen. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/20/yju2yhan.jpg
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[re: Arriving @Springer w/no prior backpacking experience...]
I think u would have to admit this is so extreme, it's absurd. why would anyone research and plan a thruhike without even know they enjoy backpacking? reckless even. I'm glad your first experience worked out, and I'm sure many others like yours didn't.
I'm inclined to agree, but lack of prep doesn't predict failure any more than good prep predicts success. They may shift the odds one way or another, but they don't predict anything.
PS, re: that photo of J. Bieber being carried along the Great Wall... I'm just embarrassed for the guy.