View Full Version : AT or PCT or CDT?
Began my thru last spring but had to stop abruptly due to a family illness. But I was amazed at how many other hikers were on the trail! Now I'm wondering if I should switch to the PCT or maybe even the CDT so as to have less "forced socialization." When can I start my NOBO to avoid constant other hikers!?
lonehiker
03-22-2014, 11:28
Why are you forced to socialize on the AT?
Starchild
03-22-2014, 11:34
You can hike the AT SoBo or wrap around. It sounds like the PCT is gaining popularity so the normal start will have you travel with others but not like the AT. CDT may give you the least social aspect.
Damn Yankee
03-22-2014, 11:47
You also have the JMT
You will hardly see anyone if you hike the CDT. We often went weeks at a time without seeing another thru-hiker. And that's true even though last year was a record-setting year for numbers of thru hikers on the CDT.
The PCT is getting busier and busier. People are predicting record numbers (like maybe 1000 thru-hikers vs. 300ish a few years ago). Given that the time window for starting NOBO is limited, everyone tends to start around the same time, making it hard to avoid the herd. If you go SOBO, you will have much more solitude except for the NOBOs you will cross paths with.
SOBO on the AT would be a lot less social, too.
A sobo AT hike may be what you need. Start June 1, and within five or six weeks or so you've left the Whites and a good chunk of the nobo thru-hiker wave behind you -- you'll have the trail to yourself from that point on.
A sobo AT hike may be what you need. Start June 1, and within five or six weeks or so you've left the Whites and a good chunk of the nobo thru-hiker wave behind you -- you'll have the trail to yourself from that point on.
Hmm, never considered a SOBO. Now I am! Thanks for the responses!
ChinMusic
03-22-2014, 12:11
Why are you forced to socialize on the AT?
I've never understood this concern on the AT. It is what you want it to be.
colorado_rob
03-22-2014, 12:44
I've never understood this concern on the AT. It is what you want it to be. Not if you start the AT NOBO from springer in the standard March/April time frame. I don't care what anyone claims, even the renowned Chin, there is no way to avoid crowds; they can be avoided a bit here and there, but overall you'll be among a throng competing for limited camp sites and shelter sites and playing leap-frog with hikers most of the day (you pass them gently, they see you and throw their pack on and hurry past you again; some sort of competitive thing I never ever understood).
I wouldn't recommend to anyone wanting a good deal of alone time to start the AT NOBO in the spring. The SOBO or flip options are the best.
Sorry to hear about the PCT filling up, that might be good for a flip option, something like wait until the snow is reasonable then start NOBO from Kennedy, hike to Canada, come back down and head SOBO from Kennedy. Something like that.
Regarding the PCT, one strategy I have in mind for next year is to start a bit earlier than most people knowing that I will likely end up at Kennedy Meadows before the right time to enter the Sierra Nevada - maybe even a few weeks too early. If that happens, I don't see anything wrong with taking some time off the trail either to fly back home to the east coast to visit family or maybe have them come to visit me somewhere like Mammoth Lakes or even the California coast. As a former Californian, I know that there is plenty to do. Then return to Kennedy Meadows at the right time to proceed. Yes, there will be a "bubble" there when everyone wants to enter the Sierra but that bubble will have thinned out over the first 700 miles as the less prepared hikers drop out so it shouldn't be 1,000 people starting at the same time.
One possible flaw in my thinking is that I am totally unfamiliar with the higher elevation areas in Southern California and I know that there are a few spots where snow can be an issue down there as well. So starting way too early is probably not going to work.
I've always found the idea of a SOBO PCT daunting. For one thing, it is illegal to enter from Canada. So right off the bat, you have to hike north to the border and then backtrack a significant distance. And it is all likely to be under snow as well for start dates that will allow for completing the Sierras before the end of September. I feel like a SOBO PCT thru hike would be far more of a challenge than a SOBO AT thru hike.
I'll probably leave the CDT for last although I am looking forward to hiking the portions of the CDT co-located with the Colorado Trail this summer.
ChinMusic
03-22-2014, 12:53
Not if you start the AT NOBO from springer in the standard March/April time frame. I don't care what anyone claims, even the renowned Chin, there is no way to avoid crowds; they can be avoided a bit here and there, but overall you'll be among a throng competing for limited camp sites and shelter sites and playing leap-frog with hikers most of the day (you pass them gently, they see you and throw their pack on and hurry past you again; some sort of competitive thing I never ever understood).
I just cannot equate "seeing other hikers" with "forced socialization". The only "forced socialization" I ever felt on the AT was the rule of sleeping in the shelters in the Smokies. All other times it was my choice along as to how much socialization I wanted. The only time I felt stressed for "limited camp sites" was in the Shenandoahs during Memorial Day weekend, but that led to stealthing, which was LESS socialization.
Regarding the PCT, one strategy I have in mind for next year is to start a bit earlier than most people knowing that I will likely end up at Kennedy Meadows before the right time to enter the Sierra Nevada - maybe even a few weeks too early. If that happens, I don't see anything wrong with taking some time off the trail either to fly back home to the east coast to visit family or maybe have them come to visit me somewhere like Mammoth Lakes or even the California coast. As a former Californian, I know that there is plenty to do. Then return to Kennedy Meadows at the right time to proceed. Yes, there will be a "bubble" there when everyone wants to enter the Sierra but that bubble will have thinned out over the first 700 miles as the less prepared hikers drop out so it shouldn't be 1,000 people starting at the same time.
One possible flaw in my thinking is that I am totally unfamiliar with the higher elevation areas in Southern California and I know that there are a few spots where snow can be an issue down there as well. So starting way too early is probably not going to work.
I've always found the idea of a SOBO PCT daunting. For one thing, it is illegal to enter from Canada. So right off the bat, you have to hike north to the border and then backtrack a significant distance. And it is all likely to be under snow as well for start dates that will allow for completing the Sierras before the end of September. I feel like a SOBO PCT thru hike would be far more of a challenge than a SOBO AT thru hike.
I'll probably leave the CDT for last although I am looking forward to hiking the portions of the CDT co-located with the Colorado Trail this summer.
Having a place to camp in the Sierra is not an issue, bubble or not. Depending on the year, the snowy Sierra will whittle down the numbers to a more manageable level. A bigger issue in the Sierra are the JMT hikers. In a low snow year they could outnumber PCTers.
there are two issues with a SoBo. First, many start way too early and immediately get hit with miles and miles of snow before they get in hiker shape. Just as Fuller ridge freaks out inexperienced NoBoers the snow in Wa takes its toll on Soboers especially those that start too early. the second issue is that generally you have to hike a faster pace SoBo. People try to defy that and start early (see issue 1) but it is a more aggressive window getting through the Sierra prior to snow. Also a SoBo hike would be much more lonely which is sorta the point of this thread.
I've only ever spent two nights on the JMT, and at both sites there were plenty of people. This was around Devil's Postpile and the next day or two south from there. Way more crowded than my AT section the year before.
I didn't find the JMT all that crowded (late August-mid September Southbound) except for most parts of Yosemite, Red's Meadow/Devil's Postpile, the section of the JMT used as part of the Rae Lakes loop, and on the Whitney Portal stretch which is technically not part of the JMT. Except for those spots, I definitely see way more people on the AT in Shenandoah National Park on any given weekend hike.
As for camping spots on the JMT, I could almost always find a secluded spot not within sight of the trail and would see no one. On the other hand, most people would congregate in obvious trailside camp spots. Of course, choosing to pitch a tent next to the trail should come with the expectation of company. Sometimes I did this when I didn't mind having neighbors but on most nights I sought out a more secluded spot. Of course, I had the ability to be choosy regarding camping options since I wasn't under pressure to do high mileage days. My guess is that many PCTers after a 25 or 30 mile day just pitch a tent at the first flat spot they arrive at close to nightfall.
Thanks to everyone for their responses to my post. I don't want to imply that I'm antisocial, but colorado rob's post is pretty much what I'm talking about, reminds me of my last AT section hike where young people were trying to catch up and pass me, then smiling like Cheshire Cats at me when I come upon them later at the full shelter... Some sort of "competition" that I can do without... Just looking for a less crowded time/experience...
I had't heard it's illegal to enter the US on a sobo hike but I'd have no problem hiking north from Harts Pass, tagging the border and retracing my steps. Since there's a ranger station there you could probably leave your resupply or hang it off trail.
Without much long distance hiking experience you'll probably be better off on the AT. Besides southbound, you can hike north from Harpers Ferry and flip once you reach Katahdin. That's probably the best possible scenario to get in shape without too much strain, plus the crowds will be thin if you start sometime in April/May.
I'll also add, doing a flip-flop helps relieve some the pressure and stigma involved with thru-hiking purism. You could hike south from Harpers Ferry to where you left off and call it close enough.
lonehiker
03-22-2014, 16:40
I've never understood this concern on the AT. It is what you want it to be.
I believe that was my point.....
lonehiker
03-22-2014, 16:48
Thanks to everyone for their responses to my post. I don't want to imply that I'm antisocial, but colorado rob's post is pretty much what I'm talking about, reminds me of my last AT section hike where young people were trying to catch up and pass me, then smiling like Cheshire Cats at me when I come upon them later at the full shelter... Some sort of "competition" that I can do without... Just looking for a less crowded time/experience...
You give this so called "competition" credibility by letting it bother you. During a typical hiking day I didn't see that many hikers (2008). Obviously if you time your day to sleep at or near shelters you will be among others. But, even then, you can make of that what you want.
ChinMusic
03-22-2014, 16:58
then smiling like Cheshire Cats at me when I come upon them later at the full shelter... Some sort of "competition" that I can do without... Just looking for a less crowded time/experience...
Well, there is your problem right there......shelters. I chose not to sleep in shelters. You won't find shelters on most other trails so your experiences on those will be different because of it.
I grew up in SoCal and have hiked the mountains there. If you start early it is very possible that you will bet hit with snow. However, it varies a lot from year to year.
I plan on starting in mid March 2016 and will just hope for good weather.
Starchild
03-22-2014, 17:45
Though I never was denied space in shelters I did find I like tenting better. I realized this after the smokies and in the Nora virus 'plague zone' where shelter use was not recommended. I do believe the AT itself gave me special favor, or if you will good luck in this.
Also I do remember waking up to a alarm clock in the shelters near dawn and then 3-4 young guys quickly breaking camp for the specific reason to make it to the next shelter first. This was in GA in the height of the bubble, and even one day I got caught up in it till I realized that is not what I was here for.
As for leap frogging, I tend to hike as the rabbit, fast hiking and more stops, not the turtle, slower but constant. So yes i played the passing game many times. It just was my natural pace, start stop, which equated to the steady pace of others. I did try to modify it, or take longer breaks to prevent it, but you can't always do that.
try the Long Trail in Sept or October.... very few hikers north of Maine Junction on the LT during those months. Last September I met very few hikers on the LT north of Rt-4. There are many ways you can hike the AT and not be caught in the bubble/traffic jam. Think about doing different type flip-flops. You can split the AT into halves or thirds, and hike your chosen sections during the best seasonal weather, while avoiding the mobs. You can also start at any time, and if you choose to avoid AT shelters, you will really not be in any forced socialization situations.
Except for the NPs and possibly the Whites there is no reason why an AT thru-hiker even doing a typical NOBO during the peak of thruhiking season is forced to socialize. Learn some LNT skills and don't plan on staying in many lean-tos and at beaten down crowded established camping sites. To the OP, consider picking up your AT hike where you left off which may, with a little foresight, allow you to avoid the bubble. The AT thru-hiking herd thins out some too as quitters go home.
I understand there is some competition for camping space and there CERTAINLY exists plenty of hugely competitive thru-hiking EGOS, especially on the AT, but personally I've long ago gotten over letting this bother me: "young people were trying to catch up and pass me, then smiling like Cheshire Cats at me when I come upon them later at the full shelter... Some sort of "competition" that I can do without..." LOL. LOL. I know what you're talking about. I've matured, and hopefully have become wiser since then. Don't let it bother you though. Sleep somewhere else. You'll prolly sleep better and be in a better position to manage your hike according to your own agenda.
This, "Just looking for a less crowded time/experience..." is also possible on the AT but again plan your hike to make it what you want it to be. Again, learn LNT skills and don't plan on staying in many lean-tos and at beaten down established camping sites right next to the trail. And, why are you so hung up with hiking the AT, PCT, and CDT? There are plenty of less crowded hiking opportunities!
ChinMusic
03-22-2014, 18:18
As for leap frogging, I tend to hike as the rabbit, fast hiking and more stops, not the turtle, slower but constant. So yes i played the passing game many times. It just was my natural pace, start stop, which equated to the steady pace of others. I did try to modify it, or take longer breaks to prevent it, but you can't always do that.
I was one of the turtles types you referred to. The rabbit types never bothered me. We all have different styles.
Starchild
03-22-2014, 18:25
I was one of the turtles types you referred to. The rabbit types never bothered me. We all have different styles.
I do remember playing that game with you and B-Rocket on the way to Chestnut shelter (or perhaps the haunter one.)
I can seriously relate to the OP's complaint. It wasn't "family illness" that took me off the trail, but the unspoken competition (for miles, and for shelter spaces) was one of several factors behind my terminal case of Virginia Blues.
Fortunately, nothing like that ever occurred again in my subsequent AT sections, even when I timed my hikes to meet the nobo wave in the HMW and through Vermont. On my last several sections, empty shelters and hostels were the norm and I was glad to have company when I did.
colorado_rob
03-22-2014, 19:02
Everyone keeps taking about crowded shelters and how they just camped to avoid the crowds... well, yes, shelters were almost always full, but my big problem from about Fontana up through middle of VA was finding good and vacant camping spots either at or AWAY from the shelters. I never used the shelters per se, though I camped a couple/few times at the shelters (and in the smokies where required. The halfway decent camp spots were either few and far between or taken by the time I got there.
Perhaps my biggest problem is that I hiked until nearly dusk every day. I don't like sitting around camp and would rather walk. For those that do short days and quit earlier, camp sites were undoubtedly more plentiful.
So no way would I ever recommend doing the AT NOBO starting March/April if their Modus Operandi was like my own. Pain in the butt. More than once I had to settle for a really lousy sloping, rocky patch of ground and just deal with it. Once past somewhere in the middle of VA, things got noticeable better. We all know that reason.
One other observation, considering the OP is from AZ: Us westerners have quite a different outlook on what is "crowded" and what is not. Some of us are used to basically owning a trail and a whole region for that matter when we're out there, and anything more than an occasional human contact or two might seem a tad "busy". Easterners (and Californians) have an entirely different view of these things, or it seems so to me.
Bagge Pants
03-22-2014, 19:21
If you're looking for solitude on trail then choose one without shelters, as those are definitive way points of congregation, or use something like the AT as your hiking highway and go off trail for at least one night in between resupplies to get away from the other hikers. I imagine with a map for certain sections you can follow the side trails that will inherit designated campsites, you just have to look for the tell-tale signs and not rely on a guidebook.
fiddlehead
03-22-2014, 21:07
SOBO AT is probably your best bet.
SOBO PCT is for experienced hikers only with ice ax expertise IMO.
I've been up in WA in August and needed an ice ax already.
Depends on the year, but you WILL hit some snow.
CDT: Again experience helps a lot on that trail. Finding water and route finding especially.
Also there will be some snow either direction.
If you think you are good enough in those skills, then go for the CDT: it's an awesome trail.
Personally I can't imagine myself doing an AT NOBO in season.
If I was going to try a NOBO, I'd wait until mid-May.
I remember waiting in line to get water, with all those people with their pumps, crowding around the water source.
Reminded me of what I was trying to get away from in the first place.
And walking by a shelter in the rain that was packed with people standing like too many in an elevator, no one smiling, no one happy about it.
I get the shakes just thinking about it.
C'mon folks. Are you all telling me if you choose to hike one of the most popular long distance hiking trails in the world during perhaps the most crowded time of the yr you don't have any idea what you could be in store for? Adapt. Don't do what the hiking masses do. Don't hike the same way as the hiking masses. Chin Music is right. You define your hike for what you want it to be. This is yet another aspect of being responsible for HYOH. There are an infinite number of ways and techniques that could be used to have a less crowed less "forced to socialize" AT thru-hiking experience. Stop complaining and create the hike you desire.
I was one of the turtles types you referred to. The rabbit types never bothered me. We all have different styles.
I was one of the rabbits but I was never cocky about it. I also by the way almost always chose to sleep in 45 minutes more then everyone else and got my fair share of good natured ribbing for that.
As for social/antisocial, I hiked the trail with the intention of getting away from people for a while, and with this in mind I started on 2/19. The most people I ever saw in one day was probably 8-10. If I didn't feel like being talkative I just tried to keep to myself and everyone I met seemed to respect that. No one ever tried to force me to socialize. Still, got laid twice, still made a couple of the best friends I'll ever have on that trip. It's what you make of it.
C'mon folks. Are you all telling me if you choose to hike one of the most popular long distance hiking trails in the world during perhaps the most crowded time of the yr you don't have any idea what you could be in store for? Adapt. Don't do what the hiking masses do. Don't hike the same way as the hiking masses. Chin Music is right. You define your hike for what you want it to be. This is yet another aspect of being responsible for HYOH. There are an infinite number of ways and techniques that could be used to have a less crowed less "forced to socialize" AT thru-hiking experience. Stop complaining and create the hike you desire.
Theoretical. Hypothetical. Shake it up. Do it different.
Extend your re-supply schedule. 10 days. 2 weeks maybe. Pick re-supply locations that require the least amount of off-trail time. Keep hiking while all about you are dashing off to town. Them spending money in town while you hike in peace and quiet and don't spend money.
That would be one way.
Wayne
Spirit Walker
03-22-2014, 22:39
Which trail do you want to spend time on? They are all very different experiences and very different terrain and vegetation. Which calls to you? For me, the people of the AT were the best part of the trail. I loved the community, both the other hikers and the trail community, much more than the trail itself. Coming from the desert, I really enjoyed the green wet leafiness of the AT, but the long green tunnel is a reality too. In the end, the CDT was the trail that really called to me. I hiked the AT first, to get experience, but then went to the CDT to hike the land that I really wanted to explore. I loved the high country, the remoteness, the wildness, the wildlife, the rolling hills and immense mountain ranges. The PCT also has a lot of beauty, but it is much hotter and dryer than the CDT and much more populated. There are a lot of other trails, if you don't want to take six months to hike. So think about what kind of country you want to spend time in and then do the research to make it a reality.
fredmugs
03-23-2014, 07:37
After the movie Wild comes out (I'm guessing) this year the PCT is going to be insane next year. It will be worse than all the clueless noobs who decided to thru hike the AT after reading A Walk in the Woods.
After the movie Wild comes out (I'm guessing) this year the PCT is going to be insane next year. It will be worse than all the clueless noobs who decided to thru hike the AT after reading A Walk in the Woods.
I suspect it will be much worse. There will be whole groups wandering around lost trying to find themselves.
i wonder....... Will female hikers outnumber male hikers on the PCT soon due to Wild?
After the movie Wild comes out (I'm guessing) this year the PCT is going to be insane next year. It will be worse than all the clueless noobs who decided to thru hike the AT after reading A Walk in the Woods.
If they are that clueless, they won't last very long so the problem will be mostly at the start and around ADZPCTKO. I am hoping to go to kick off but could avoid it if it is going to be super crowded. How many people who watch Wild and decide to hike in 2015 based on a whim will make it into the Sierras?
C'mon folks. Are you all telling me if you choose to hike one of the most popular long distance hiking trails in the world during perhaps the most crowded time of the yr you don't have any idea what you could be in store for? Adapt. Don't do what the hiking masses do. Don't hike the same way as the hiking masses. Chin Music is right. You define your hike for what you want it to be. This is yet another aspect of being responsible for HYOH. There are an infinite number of ways and techniques that could be used to have a less crowed less "forced to socialize" AT thru-hiking experience. Stop complaining and create the hike you desire.
Practically every sentence above is an order or command.... do this, don't do that. Presumably directed at the OP or people like him. Then the obligatory "HYOH" in the middle of it all -- not as an option, but as a responsibility. LOL.
If you're undecided, why don't you let the terrain and scenery help you make your choice? Personally, I find the scenery and mountains out west a lot more beautiful and engaging than the Appalachians. I would chose pct or CDT over at if I was going to do a long hike. You may want to experience the east coast hiking world.
colorado_rob
03-23-2014, 10:34
Practically every sentence above is an order or command.... do this, don't do that. Presumably directed at the OP or people like him. Then the obligatory "HYOH" in the middle of it all -- not as an option, but as a responsibility. LOL. Hmmm... I don't read it that way, though I still think Dogwood has it wrong; I don't see the OP or anyone else (including myself) as "complaining", just looking for advice on which trail would best suit his style; he wants a bit more solitude than the AT affords during the peak, and it seems he has received some decent advice along these lines. The conclusion as I see it is that the standard NOBO AT won't accommodate his style, so either do something alternative like a flip/flop on the AT, go SOBO, or go with the PCT or CDT. As has been said, the PCT might be a bit crowded in a few places especially at the start because of water logistics, forced time of year, etc, but "crowds" along the PCT don't matter as much with the wider-open spaces, and infinite camp opportunities. So the OP is, in fact, trying to create "the hike he desires" by asking this advice. Just MHO.
For the longest time, I could not understand the loathing and dissing of shelters here on Whiteblaze.
But I will very much grant this point -- the social scene on the AT, particularly in the Nobo dash from Springer -- revolves around the shelters (and campsites, hostels, etc.) It's kinda like a kid's first days at a new school in a new town. I don't consider it unreasonable or un-manly to want to have friends and companions, or to want to be part of a group. But the shelters can barely hold the traffic, so one really can't expect room at the inn on any given night.
If only we could have shelters with exactly the right number of like-minded companions at every shelter, and the shelters spaced at exactly the right intervals for every day's hike.
You might want to hike to here, or here, but there's no shelter within miles of that point. You gotta admit, they are arbitrary mileposts. If you're ready to sleep alone in the woods, lack of shelter isn't an obstacle. First couple of weeks out of Springer, some newbs are still spooked by that prospect.
So maybe the issue with shelters is the expectations they create. They promise some comfort, maybe a fire, maybe good company and conversation. Maybe a bench and table instead of forest floor. You don't necessarily want to forsake all that, but it certainly can be done.
Or better yet, hike sobo or off season, well away from the beauty spots, and these same, much-maligned edifices will be yours for the taking. Solitude will not be a problem.