What is a good average pack weight excluding

[Crestview_hiker]

What is a good average pack weight, without food and water for a NOBO thru hike beginning April 1

[Slo-go'en]

18 pounds, +/- 1 ounce. At least that's what I usually end up with.

[bamboo bob]

18 pounds, +/- 1 ounce. At least that's what I usually end up with.

About mine. people claimm 15-20 as base weights and seem to do fine.

[Ender]

I aim for 12-15 lbs, and if I end up between 15-20 I'm fairly happy. Eventually I'd like to get it between 9-12 lbs, but that will take some serious gear upgrading.

[Crestview_hiker]

so 25 would be considered a heavy pack?

[bamboo bob]

so 25 would be considered a heavy pack?

If you have old school gear it's not hard to get to 25 pounds but new gear without getting into Cuban you need to carry a lot of preferential stuff to get that high. Extra cloths, tablet, books, tools etc

[kayak karl]

so 25 would be considered a heavy pack?

if you add food and water you are now 35-40. are you OK with that?

[lonehiker]

Reading WB will give you a false impression of what the vast majority of hikers are carrying as far as base weight. Most hikers you see will easily have base weights of 20+ (more likely 25+). There obviously is a downward trend to lower weights especially as the major manufacturers move towards lighter gear (or at least have lighter weight gear lines). Lighter is probably better but some just have to go with what they have. A lot of kids I see hiking are carrying tremendous loads.

[Weather-man]

My base weight up until recently for long sections, a few weeks or more, was around 17-18 lbs. That gave me a day-1 start carry weight of about 30 lbs or a bit less which included 5 days of food.


As of late I've really made the effort to go lighter. By saying "made the effort" I really meant "spent money":) I haven't changed much in my methods though I am trying a beer can / Alcohol stove instead of my usual canister. Instead I've found high cost/ low weight analogs to replace heavier items. My precip pants and jacket were replaced by Lukes pertex set, saving over a pound. My ULA Circuit was replaced by an ARC Blast, saving over a pound. Cuben Tarp tent at under a pound....etc...etc.. Light weight gear is available and you have the added benefit of a light weight wallet afterwards!

[Slo-go'en]

A lot of kids I see hiking are carrying tremendous loads.

Last year I helped Bob Pease load a bunch of packs into his pick up truck to shuttle them for some slack packers. I was amazed how heavy most of them were. I don't have the lightest pack around, but had most of these beat by a fair margin.

[Starchild]

'Without food and water'

I don't think you are going to make it.

Unless you are really really good at yogiing.

and unless you are really hiking without food and water, what difference does that make as to what you carry neglecting food and water weight as you are also carrying food and water? Actual carry weight is what matters, base weight is nothing but bragging rights. Lower base weight does not equate to lower pack weight.

[Ender]

Lower base weight does not equate to lower pack weight.

I would argue (respectfully) that it in fact does exactly that... lowering your base weight means you burn fewer calories, which means your food weight will not need to be as high.

[lonehiker]

Even if you carry the same amount of food weight, lower base weight means an overall lower pack weight.

[Ender]

Even if you carry the same amount of food weight, lower base weight means an overall lower pack weight.
Exactly.

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[Coffee]

ULers are overrepresented on forums such as WhiteBlaze. I'm fortunate enough to have been able to afford some of the lightweight gear when I got all new equipment over the past 18 months and until I got out on some longer hikes, I thought everyone was going to have light gear. For the most part, hikers seem to be using traditional gear available at places like REI and seem to do fine with it. I was our for a total of about 5 weeks in 2013 on various trails, including a JMT thru hike and a few AT sections and my totally unscientific and subjective impression is that it is, at most, a 80/20% split favoring traditional hikers vs. lightweight hikers. SUL (sub 10 pound baseweight) are like endangered species. I met only one hiker - a SOBO PCT - who had a super light kit. Although I didn't have a scale to weight people's packs, I never saw another pack that was clearly under 10 pounds baseweight. IMO, if someone already has or can only afford a 20 pound baseweight, they should be able to have a good time assuming they are in decent shape and shouldn't be discouraged by not being able to spend the money to immediately go lighter.

[Starchild]

I would argue (respectfully) that it in fact does exactly that... lowering your base weight means you burn fewer calories, which means your food weight will not need to be as high.

There are many examples where lower base weight means higher total pack weight. It is very possible to swap consumable weight for base weight and come up ahead by increasing base weight (when you include water and how each method has you carry them). The prime example is Aqua Mira vs Steripen. Yes AM weights less and looks good on paper, but in actual use the Steripen will tend to have the hiker carrying less total weight. Going stove-less is another prime example where the food choices are heavier then the types that requiring cooking.

Again I state that base weight is nothing but bragging rights, it is total weight that counts on the trail.

[BobTheBuilder]

By saying "made the effort" I really meant "spent money"!

Now THAT'S a true statement. My experience is that most people on the trail are in the 20-25 base weight range, although I have seen a few seriously heavy packs, like in the 80 lb range. Thrus and former thrus have usually figured out exactly what they want and need, so they seem to be on the lighter end. I find the biggest culprit for me is electronics. Sneaky little buggers.

[Coffee]

I find the biggest culprit for me is electronics. Sneaky little buggers.

My pet peeve is carrying chargers. I can never use them in the woods so I hate carrying them around. I'm currently plotting a strategy to bounce them up the trail for my Colorado Trail thru hike this summer, along with some other things. It will be my first experience using a bounce box to lower my base weight...

[RED-DOG]

On my 06 and 2012 AT thru's my base weight was around 15.5 lbs then after food and water 25-28 lbs but it weighed no more than 30lbs on any part of the trail, but on my 96 Flip-Flop my pack weighed considerable more, right know my base weight for my 2015 PCT thru-hike is going to be around 12lbs and overall weight no more than 25lbs, 15lb base weight is good but the overall weight shouldn't weigh more than 30lbs, 30lbs was comfortable for me on my AT thru-hikes, now some people carries alot more and some carries less, It's up to you to decide what to carry and how much.

[Slo-go'en]

Again I state that base weight is nothing but bragging rights, it is total weight that counts on the trail.

Food and water are variable weights, while base weight is a constant. You need some point of reference and the base weight is it. If you start out with a heavy base weight, you will always have a heavy pack.

[Prime Time]

Back to the OP's question. Under 20 for an April 1 NOBO start is doable, but 20 - 25 is probably average among experienced hikers that have a good shot at finishing.

[rafe]

We learn by doing. I got lighter because I got older and still wanted to finish the trail. It really is all about gravity.

I'll vote for mid-high 'teens base weight, and 1.5-2 lbs./day of food (say, 6-8 lbs food for 3-4 nights in the woods). Plus water. It took a long time for me to get to that point.

Hikers find creative ways to shed weight. Eg., you might carry less food in some stretches because it's easy to get, just off the trail. Or slackpacking, heaven forbid. Section hikers can hike in summer, save a pound or two between the sleeping bag and the clothing.

[Big Dawg]

What is a good average pack weight, without food and water for a NOBO thru hike beginning April 1

I would agree with others,, 15 to 20 lbs is probably a good average. Plenty more above that, but they seem to whittle the pack down as they go along. Your body size/weight also plays a big role in how comfortable the overall pack weight is.

For me, I've gone up and down the scale. On my first section hike, my total pack weight was in the 80's,, lol. 2nd trip was in the 50's. Average after that was in the 30's. I got caught up in the UL craze a number of years ago, and whittled my base wieght down to under 14 lbs, and switched to trail runners, but ultimately I missed the items that gave me an average base of 20 lbs. For example, I prefer a framed pack, and thoroughly enjoy how my Atmos 50 carries. I have the GG Gorilla, and previouly owned the Osprey Hornet 46, but didn't like the way they carried. I could continue with many examples, but my point is that I re-settled back into a comfortable base that varies between 19 to 21 lbs based on the season (btw, I rarely hike in the summer). Part of the reason a 20 lb base is no problem for me,,, I'm 6'5" & 250 lbs, so a total pack of 30 to 35 lbs is still around 15% of my body weight,, which is much better than most. Bottom line, get stuff that works for YOU and your hiking style and body type.

[bmafg]

When I did quite a bit of cycling, I saw people spending huge $$$ to drop a few grams. Many of these folks would have been much better served by listening to Eddie Merckx "Don't buy upgrades, ride up grades". I like to keep that philosophy in mind when I'm being seduced by all things cuben and titanium. I'm at about 16 lbs base depending on expected weather, bear canister requirements, etc and believe that for me my most important weight saving will come from my spare tire. That combined with stronger legs will make a 6 lb drop in base weight generally inconsequential.

HYOH, Jim

[MuddyWaters]

The two things that a lighter pack gets you, is more miles per day, and lower incidence of blisters.

Neither will be the deciding factor in whether or not you reach Katahdin.

[Josh Calhoun]

with a 4 day food supply and 64oz of water my winter weight was 32# , my summer weight was 22-25#. worked for me

[QiWiz]

I guess it depends on what you consider essential. In my case, it would be about 12 pounds.

[hikingshoes]

I'm at 23-25 lbs with 3-4days of food and a lite of H2O.

[Gambit McCrae]

My 2 cents

I find that the lower my pack weight the better time i have, the better i feel after 20 miles and the further my feet last/ further i can go. That said, You will find that there are few things you MUST have for a thru that people tend to feel they need for sectioning. For example "kids" or bi annual hikers might take a tent that is far more than you NEED to successfull get thru most nights. As well, things like extra clothes, more than a boiling cup, unscheduled food( just guessing what you will need) and small things like nalgeens vs water bladders really add up. Light gear does not equal Expensive 100% of the time example: Sawyer squeeze, what i believe to be the most popluar new water filter also is one of the least expensive. hyoh

[STICK]

Disclaimer: I have never thru hiked... so my theories are based on previous use/knowledge with my current gear, and speculations/research based on others thru hikes, and my past hiking experiences...

I agree... total pack weight is what matters, however, I do subscribe to the theory that BPW does indeed matter too. Food, fuel & water (or consumables), will constantly vary, whereas, for long lengths of time anyway, the contents included in ones BPW will stay the same. On the AT there are numerous places to resupply... sometimes just a day in between, and sometimes longer... I feel safe saying that 4 - 5 days is a good estimated "average."

Also, I gotta say... I don't agree with the comparison of the AM drops and the Steripen... I used both AM drops, and MP1 tabs (at separate times) for quite a while, however, I never found myself carrying excess amounts of water... Using chemicals is all about planning, and in most cases I found myself carrying the same amount of water, or sometimes less, as those using water purification methods that delivered instant drinking water (filters and steripens)... I know that this subject has been hashed out in numerous other threads all over the internet, but I always find it kind of funny when I see people say that one needs to carry more water when using chemicals... as I have found, that's just not true... Anywhoo, despite all of this, I now carry, and love, the Sawyer Mini...

Anyway..... as far as weight, at this moment, my anticipated BPW would be just under 12 lbs, and this would include just over 2 lbs of camera gear. This set up would be good for me to 20 F, and in all conditions. Here is a link to a potential gear list:

Long Distance Gear List (http://Pot, lid, stuff sack, windscreen, 2 paperclips, stove, baggie, heat reflector)

If starting the AT early (before March), I would swap out the quilt for my Marmot Helium, which would be a 17.2 oz increase in BPW. As well, I would likely throw in some Micro Spikes to be safe, which is something like another 16 oz or so... This would bring my BPW up to around 14 lbs.

For warmer weather, I would simply send home some of the clothing, such as the rain pants, the down pants and socks, and the midlayer. I would likely hang onto the down jacket as it is quite light, and would provide enough warmth if needed. I would also swap out the XLite for a short ProLite 3. There are likely some other things I would send home too...This would reduce the BPW by about 2 lbs, which would give me around a 10 lb BPW...

As for my consumables, I generally carry around 40 oz of water (two 20 oz Gatorade bottles). I generally eat a little over 1 lb of food per day, but I will say 1.5 lbs as I know my appetite would grow. So, for 5 days, I would have 7.5 lbs of food. Esbit would be my fuel of choice, and I would use 16 g per day (one and a half 4 g tabs for breakfast and two and a half tabs for dinner). For 5 days, this would be about 2.8 oz of fuel. Based on these numbers, this would give me a little over 10 lbs of consumable for 5 days.

Add this to the almost 12 lb BPW, and I would have around a 22 lb total pack weight, that will keep me good for 5 days on the trail, and safe and comfortable in a wide range of conditions and temperatures.

One day I am going to have to thru hike... :)

[shakey_snake]

hum... old thread I hope OP is having a good hike.

[MDSection12]

There are many examples where lower base weight means higher total pack weight. It is very possible to swap consumable weight for base weight and come up ahead by increasing base weight (when you include water and how each method has you carry them). The prime example is Aqua Mira vs Steripen. Yes AM weights less and looks good on paper, but in actual use the Steripen will tend to have the hiker carrying less total weight. Going stove-less is another prime example where the food choices are heavier then the types that requiring cooking.

Again I state that base weight is nothing but bragging rights, it is total weight that counts on the trail.
Huh? There are a couple exceptions like those you mention, but for the most part base weight is an excellent indicator of total weight. I can elect to hike with little food or water on days that I know it will be available, but I cannot hike with any less than my base weight. I'd argue that total weight is a worthless number since it will change practically by the minute.


Food and water are variable weights, while base weight is a constant. You need some point of reference and the base weight is it. If you start out with a heavy base weight, you will always have a heavy pack.
Yup.

[Coffee]

I generally eat a little over 1 lb of food per day, but I will say 1.5 lbs as I know my appetite would grow. So, for 5 days, I would have 7.5 lbs of food.

That's a surprisingly small amount of food per day. I carried about 1.5 to 1.75 pounds of food per day on my recent 13 day AT section hike but I supplemented that amount at numerous places (especially in Shenandoah National Park) and I was still quite hungry most of the time particularly during the second week. In southern PA, I ate an entire large pizza at a place near Caledonia state park!

The caloric density of my packed food was not particularly high at around 120 calories per ounce. So at 1.75 pounds, or 28 ounces, I was packing around 3,300 calories per day which was still insufficient. At one pound per day with 120 calories per ounce, that would be less than 2,000 calories - which would be a calorie deficit even for an average sized man who is sedentary. So unless I was able to figure out a way to increase the calorie density of my food to maybe 150 calories/ounce, I think that I will be carrying 2 pounds/day of food on my thru hike of the Colorado Trail this summer. Combined with my 15 pound base weight and an average of 1 liter of water, I'm looking at a total pack weight between 21 and 27 pounds at the start of each segment after resupply (resupplies will be anywhere from 2 - 5 days apart).

One interesting challenge for me on the CT will involve resupplying at local stores rather than mailing everything ahead. I'm determined to not be tied into sending resupplies everywhere on the PCT next year and I need the practice of resupplying locally, but currently most of what I eat is not necessarily readily available in small grocery stores.

[colorado_rob]

The caloric density of my packed food was not particularly high at around 120 calories per ounce. So at 1.75 pounds, or 28 ounces, I was packing around 3,300 calories per day which was still insufficient. 120 cal/oz (I assume you're including packaging) is really good, actually. I try as hard as I can to barely reach about 125 (incl. pkg.) Just a wild guess, but with all the heavy packaging I see on the AT, and carried food that includes lots of water content, I'd be willing to bet the average AT calorie density is more like ~80 cal/ounce.

Everyone's metabolism is different, of course, but I've honed right in on 3500 cal/day, very close to that 1.75 pounds, and I do not lose any weight on long hikes. (I recently finished a 400 mile AT section, carried right around 3500 cal/day, alas, didn't lose an ounce of body fat, though I was hoping to).

My base weight is finally right at 10 pounds, but it is expensive to get there, that is while still carrying a fully complete kit. I'd say the average AT base weight is 22-25 pounds. IT's all about experience level; lots of newbies on the AT, they are learning, bless them all, I hope they improve on this and enhance their enjoyment eventually.

[STICK]

That's a surprisingly small amount of food per day. I carried about 1.5 to 1.75 pounds of food per day on my recent 13 day AT section hike but I supplemented that amount at numerous places (especially in Shenandoah National Park) and I was still quite hungry most of the time particularly during the second week. In southern PA, I ate an entire large pizza at a place near Caledonia state park!


Coffee, try as I may... I just am not a big eater on the trail... Last year when I spent 7 days in the Olympics, I took 9.69 lbs of food... that is about 1.3 lbs per day, and I still came home with food! And it wasn't a casual hike, we had some big climbs... And what was surprising is on the last day while hiking out, we stopped to take a break about 2 - 3 miles from the end... while sitting there I dug out my food bag... and found a Cookies N Cream Hershey candy bar! How that managed to not get eaten was a wonder.... however, I ended up sharing it with the group and didn't even have any! :)

Anyway, as I have found, I just don't eat much though, wether doing 10 miles or 26 miles... sure, a 20+ mile day does work up a little more hunger, but not much... Now, when I pack food, I generally pack some muffins for breakfast, a few bars, crackers, throughout the day, and then a dinner with a candy bar or something. It works for me, and it usually ends up being just over a lb per day. I do expect that on a longer hike, my appetite would grow... :)

As far as density, I try to keep things at least at 100 calories per oz on average, however, some things are more, and others are a little less.

[Coffee]

I think that food consumption varies quite a bit based on the individual and maybe also by the timing of what is eaten. On my recent AT hike, I had a 750 calorie breakfast and usually a 1000 calorie dinner and both were filling. Where I fell short seemed to be mostly during the day. I had two Clif Bars and a bag of trail mix to last all day and I was hiking around 20 miles per day. After the first couple of days, I found myself finishing my allocation of these snacks around 1 pm and then would really be lagging shortly after that point. Toward the end of the hike, I just ended up eating more of my supplies during the day and buying additional food where I could. And eating that large pizza mid day on day 11! :)

So my plan is to increase my food consumption during the day and see where that leads.

I am planning to resupply a bit more often on the Colorado Trail to offset carrying more food per day. I would love to get my base weight down to the 10-12 pound range as well but that probably won't happen before the CT.

[Coffee]

120 cal/oz (I assume you're including packaging) is really good, actually. I try as hard as I can to barely reach about 125 (incl. pkg.) .

I go through lots of trail mix which consists of mostly nuts of various types so that provides a lot of density. Also, I carry olive oil and try to put at least an ounce or two in each dinner. Other than that, most of my foods are not particularly calorie dense but it averages out to 115-120 calories/ounce usually.

I recently thought about adding some protein by using the chicken foil packets (which I have finally found locally) but decided that the amount of calories provided for the weight would be too low.

[Malto]

This thread has bounced around a bit.....

Here are a couple of things I have learned over the years.
1) maximizing calories per ounce is counter productive. You have to eat it! I did the JMT at about 150 calories per ounce and couldn't eat half the food. On my PCT thru I averaged 125 calories per ounce and eat it all.
2) for a thru hike I found that I need 200 calories per mile. I average 30+ miles per day for most of the trip and was eating about 7000 calories per day.
3) when I started on the Mexican border my pack weighed 24 lbs. eight lbs of gear, eight lbs of food and eight lbs of water. I had too much food and water but the gear was just right. While everyone stresses about gear, base weight, it is often food and water that are the big opportunity areas for weight.
4) my minimum base weight for three seasons was about 7 lbs. I have slowly increased it and now have leveled out about 8 lbs. but my winter southern AT weight has decreased to less than ten due to better techniques such as vapor barrier.
5) for shorter duration hikes you can decrease you food carry by burning fat. To do this you minimize fat and maximize carbs. (Still need protein for recovery.). I can get by with 100 calories per mile in this mode.