View Full Version : Use shelters on the AT or not?
Just been a passive reader of this great AT forum. Wealth of information here... would like to attempt a thru hike of the AT; but that most likely won't happen due to work and regular life. Have a couple of questions though concerning AT shelters.
It is possible or has anyone ever completed an AT thru hike without using the shelters... just by tent only? I would sleep better alone then hearing everyone snore in a shelter, so I would be likely to use a tent all the time rather then using a shelter from time to time.
Your thoughts?
I'll bet a few thru-hikes have been completed without sleeping in the woods at all. There are a couple of areas where you're nominally required to stay in the shelters -- the Smokies, and the Whites. Crafty folks find ways around the rules in both cases. Here and there are short no-camping sections, usually state parks and such. There's a fifteen mile stretch in PA like that -- where the trail corridor is just too narrow and too close to roads and private property.
Aside from that, and in general -- nobody's forced to stay in an AT shelter.
Starchild
03-30-2014, 10:16
Just been a passive reader of this great AT forum. Wealth of information here... would like to attempt a thru hike of the AT; but that most likely won't happen due to work and regular life. Have a couple of questions though concerning AT shelters.
It is possible or has anyone ever completed an AT thru hike without using the shelters... just by tent only? I would sleep better alone then hearing everyone snore in a shelter, so I would be likely to use a tent all the time rather then using a shelter from time to time.
Your thoughts?
In the AT thru hike you can sleep most of the time in tents, but there is normally the requirement of sheltering specifically in the Smokies.
I don't recall that the whites had this requirement and I do believe they do not (you can tent below treeline with respect to a certain distance from trail, huts, roads and water), and there are several established camping sites along the AT or a short side hike to them. The hut 'croo' if work for stay is not available will usually direct the thru hiker as to where to camp nearby which is just usually right outside the hut perimeter zone.
OTOH AMC (which manages the whites) is very big on the 'leave no trace' principals and will often discourage it, but I believe it is legal regardless.
Also even though the privacy of a tent is nice, and usually better then a shelter sleep, there are times, such as heavy rains where one appreciates the covered structure over setting up a tent.
Slo-go'en
03-30-2014, 10:25
Staying in shelters isn't nearly as bad as some people make it out to be - most of the time. Shelters do make life easier and many, if not most, thru hikers will opt for staying in the shelter when ever possible. This is especially true later in the hike when competion for shelter space isn't as great as it was early on as people spread out and others go home.
I'm sure some one somewhere has hiked the AT without ever using shelters. However, I would add.. that if it has been raining all day.. and the rain doesn't stop, it's a heck of a lot more pleasant to have a shelter to hole up in then to confine yourself to a small tent. You can stand up in shelters.
Also.. shelters get less crowded when you go north. Or if you sleep in a shelter 3-4 miles from town.. no one will be there.. they all went right into town to hit the bars.
Starchild
03-30-2014, 10:30
Staying in shelters isn't nearly as bad as some people make it out to be - most of the time. Shelters do make life easier and many, if not most, thru hikers will opt for staying in the shelter when ever possible. This is especially true later in the hike when competion for shelter space isn't as great as it was early on as people spread out and others go home.
Later in the hike you are more likely to know everyone in your bubble, and everyone is pretty much trail hardened and going to make it, that does change the social dynamics a bit and one may be more willing to shelter then near the beginning.
johnnybgood
03-30-2014, 10:53
I can see the allure of possibly wanting to stay in a shelter in lieu of tenting during inclement weather. Packing away a wet tent always sucks.
Blue Mountain Edward
03-30-2014, 11:20
I talked to a guy who would not use shelters or use a privy because he was scared of spiders. Maybe he disliked crowds.
Lone Wolf
03-30-2014, 11:37
It is possible or has anyone ever completed an AT thru hike without using the shelters... just by tent only? I would sleep better alone then hearing everyone snore in a shelter, so I would be likely to use a tent all the time rather then using a shelter from time to time.
yes. totally doable
Teacher & Snacktime
03-30-2014, 11:38
I talked to a guy who would not use shelters or use a privy because he was scared of spiders. Maybe he disliked crowds.
Crowds of spiders? I don't blame him! Snacktime and I stayed in our first shelter last January, and it was rather nice. We might have been warmer in a tent, but we wanted to experience a shelter stay. The advantage in winter was no bugs or mice, and waking at 1am to a silent, snowy world. It was SO beautiful, and something I would have missed had we set up the tent. I can think of a few locations where I'd like to shelter for the sunset, sunrise views....Thomas Know, balds, anything that offers panorama.
I talked to a guy who would not use shelters or use a privy because he was scared of spiders. Maybe he disliked crowds.
Met a hiker in VT who had to end a thru-hike on account of being bit by a brown recluse spider, in VT.
shelterbuilder
03-30-2014, 11:46
I'd like to address this one from the standpoint of someone who has built a few shelters (Eagle's Nest, William Penn, and the newly reconstructed Rausch Gap, all in Pa.), and who has been involved in shelter maintenance for over 25 years. While it is may be possible to thru-hike the trail without ever using a shelter, it's REALLY nice to be able to set up camp and NOT have to worry about pitching in a heavy downpour. As previously noted, packing up a wet tent sucks! However, the shelters are more than just "a dry place out of the rain": they are actually a resource management tool that allows us to "persuade" campers to use a particular area, thereby concentrating the human impact on the environment in certain areas, and allowing the rest of the trail to sustain only minimal damage. If LNT camping was universally practiced, this would not be a consideration, but - at least in MY neck-of-the-woods - there are LOTS of folks who think nothing of clearing a large campsite area, building a fire-ring, having a huge fire all weekend, and then leaving everything intact "for next time". The shelters help to draw these types (and others) into an established area, where it's often easier to mitigate the damage. The down-side is, of course, all of the reasons that many people here and on other sites don't like to use shelters - sorry, but it's not a perfect world yet. As for spiders in the toilets...well, just use a stick to sweep out under the seat!!
I like the shelters when there were 4 people or less in a typical shelter meant for 8 people.
When it is raining, and the shelters aren't crowed (week days, typically) they are great. I still remember a trip to New Hampshire with a good friend. When it was a cold and rainy fall day, we thought we hit the jackpot when we had the entire shelter to ourselves. Lots of space to spread out, be comfortable and not have to pack up a wet tent.
OTOH, when it is crowded and basically shoulder-to-shoulder, the lack of space was not very comfortable for me even in the rain. I'd rather be in my tent. The shoulder-to-shoulder crowding negates any dryness found in a shelter...at least for me! :)
As always, it comes down to your personal preference.
jimmyjam
03-30-2014, 12:51
I try to avoid them. Eat at them, use the privy, socialize, and move on.
HikerMom58
03-30-2014, 12:58
I'm sure some one somewhere has hiked the AT without ever using shelters. However, I would add.. that if it has been raining all day.. and the rain doesn't stop, it's a heck of a lot more pleasant to have a shelter to hole up in then to confine yourself to a small tent. You can stand up in shelters.
Also.. shelters get less crowded when you go north. Or if you sleep in a shelter 3-4 miles from town.. no one will be there.. they all went right into town to hit the bars.
Rolling into a shelter, no one there, on a rainy night & setting up a msr hubba tent, in the shelter = a beautiful thing!:D It's called the "hubba trick".
4eyedbuzzard
03-30-2014, 13:56
I don't have the total aversion to shelters some have, but they can sometimes be crowded, dirty, bug infested etc. and I'll avoid them. But in an electrical storm, and/or when there are high winds and branches are falling, they are safer than a tent IMO.
colorado_rob
03-30-2014, 14:03
I personally hate staying in the shelters for the usual reasons, and besides 2 nights sleeping in "required" GSMNP shelters, I only stayed one other night in one in 1000 miles of AT hiking (springer to near Harpers). I did camp right at or near a shelter maybe 30-40% of the time, however. Nice having a picnic table and privy.
johnnybgood
03-30-2014, 14:12
I don't have the total aversion to shelters some have, but they can sometimes be crowded, dirty, bug infested etc. and I'll avoid them. But in an electrical storm, and/or when there are high winds and branches are falling, they are safer than a tent IMO.
Yep, had a close call a few years back camping at Toms Run Shelter when an all night soaker with heavy winds brought down a tree 50 feet from my tent.
ChinMusic
03-30-2014, 14:12
Staying in shelters isn't nearly as bad as some people make it out to be - most of the time. Shelters do make life easier and many, if not most, thru hikers will opt for staying in the shelter when ever possible. This is especially true later in the hike when competion for shelter space isn't as great as it was early on as people spread out and others go home.
I staying in like two shelters outside of the Smokies and that was because I got to the shelter late and couldn't find a flat spot. I would almost always tent even if I showed up at a shelter area and I was the only one there.
I loved the sound of rain beating on my tent while sleeping. Packing up a wet cuben tent in the morning was no different than packing a dry cuben tent. The wet-tent issue in a non-factor.
Generally I prefer not to sleep in shelters, but there are times when I have. If you are inflexible about this or other hiking dos and don'ts, you might be painting yourself into a corner for no good reason.
Wise Old Owl
03-30-2014, 14:34
I can see the allure of possibly wanting to stay in a shelter in lieu of tenting during inclement weather. Packing away a wet tent always sucks.
Good for lightening storms.... bout it...
Starchild
03-30-2014, 14:36
I staying in like two shelters outside of the Smokies and that was because I got to the shelter late and couldn't find a flat spot. I would almost always tent even if I showed up at a shelter area and I was the only one there.
I loved the sound of rain beating on my tent while sleeping. Packing up a wet cuben tent in the morning was no different than packing a dry cuben tent. The wet-tent issue in a non-factor.
I too had a cuban tent, what I found is that setting it up while it rains gets me wet, and packing it up while it rains gets me wet, as well as even though cuban is less water holding then Sil-nylon, it's still packing a wet tent.
Yes there is a certain nicety about being in a dry place hearing the pouring rain, but that is also shelter related.
So like anything else YMMV
Hill Ape
03-30-2014, 14:45
Always carry shelter. But be open to trail shelters. Required in the Smokes, expedient in bad weather, and some are just awesome. Trail will tell you what it wants, you'll learn to listen to it
Sarcasm the elf
03-30-2014, 15:09
Met a hiker in VT who had to end a thru-hike on account of being bit by a brown recluse spider, in VT.
I'm skeptical that the spider in question was a brown recluse given that VT isn't part of their natural range. Not saying it isnt possible, just unlikely.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_recluse_spider#Distribution
Starchild
03-30-2014, 15:23
I'm skeptical that the spider in question was a brown recluse given that VT isn't part of their natural range. Not saying it isnt possible, just unlikely.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_recluse_spider#Distribution
Wikipedia.. OK yes I can change that for you... see now that the Brown Recuse Spider is ever helpful to AT thru hikers (no need to check, I didn't edit it, and also think that Wikipedia is the modern day library of Alexandria and so much more).
ChinMusic
03-30-2014, 15:36
I hate spiders too. That was just another nail in the coffin to keep me out of those grotesque boxes.
lonehiker
03-30-2014, 15:41
My research indicates the same as Sarcasm. Doesn't appear that VT has the environment that they enjoy.
imscotty
03-30-2014, 16:29
My brother-in-law was bitten by a Spider while delivering mail on his mail-route in Southern Vermont. He did not save the spider for identification but it was a life threatening bite, there was serious flesh necrosis, and he was laid up for months. The doctors all agreed based on the symptoms and type of damage done that it must have been a Brown Recluse. Of course, this one may have hitched a ride on the mail.
I'm skeptical that the spider in question was a brown recluse given that VT isn't part of their natural range. Not saying it isnt possible, just unlikely.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_recluse_spider#Distribution
You know, I never bothered to verify the dude's claim. It was a casual conversation with an AT hiker going the other way. Maybe there's another spider species native to VT that can leave necrotic bites?
What struck me at the time was that the guy's (first) thru-hike ended in VT. Rather than pick up from VT, he started another thru-hike the following year.
Sarcasm the elf
03-30-2014, 17:48
Met a hiker in VT who had to end a thru-hike on account of being bit by a brown recluse spider, in VT.
You know, I never bothered to verify the dude's claim. It was a casual conversation with an AT hiker going the other way. Maybe there's another spider species native to VT that can leave necrotic bites?
What struck me at the time was that the guy's (first) thru-hike ended in VT. Rather than pick up from VT, he started another thru-hike the following year.
Your basic point that there are many creatures crawling around shelters is quite correct. The prevelance of wolf spiders combined with my slight arachnophobia is one of the reasons I am hesitant to stay in shelters myelf.
Very cool that the guy decided to start another thru the following year. I'd be willing to bet that he realized that bailing in VT provided enough of an excuse for him to spend another 5 months backpacking. :cool:
Teacher & Snacktime
03-30-2014, 18:14
Your basic point that there are many creatures crawling around shelters is quite correct. The prevelance of wolf spiders combined with my slight arachnophobia is one of the reasons I am hesitant to stay in shelters myself.
For you Elf.....a story from a visit to NC:
It's 1:30 am....I was sleeping soundly until I felt the weight of many heavily armored feet crawl across my arm....IT WOKE ME UP. I quickly brushed away something big and crawly and ran to the light switch. There at arm's length stood a six-foot spider staring at me with distain in his eye, eye, eye, etc.... With everyone asleep, I had to take matters into my own hands. He now lies under the weighty punishment of a handy Dr. Seuss, further compressed by a child's desk chair. It may sound like overkill....in fact I sincerely hope so, but I think perhaps my husband and children would be proud.
I staying in like two shelters outside of the Smokies and that was because I got to the shelter late and couldn't find a flat spot. I would almost always tent even if I showed up at a shelter area and I was the only one there.
I loved the sound of rain beating on my tent while sleeping. Packing up a wet cuben tent in the morning was no different than packing a dry cuben tent. The wet-tent issue in a non-factor. I agree with it all except the noise, cuben pulled tight is LOUD almost as loud as a tin roof. I carry a 10X10 inch piece of the orange water soak em up type cloth to remove the last of the drops but if windy the trees rain for hours. It can trick you into thinking it is still raining!
rusty bumper
03-31-2014, 09:27
In my 5 months on the AT, I stayed in shelters 3 nights. Once in the Smokeys (and I was really happy to be in there due to the nasty weather), once in VA due to a pending thunderstorm, and once in the Whites in NH. Many times I camped within a half mile or so of a shelter...it seemed like decent tent sites could always be found that way. Most of the time I just searched for a tent site at the end of my hiking day...no matter where I happened to be. I never used a privey during my entire hike.
Pedaling Fool
03-31-2014, 09:41
I'm skeptical that the spider in question was a brown recluse given that VT isn't part of their natural range. Not saying it isnt possible, just unlikely.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_recluse_spider#Distribution
I wouldn't doubt there are these spiders in Vt, after all there are alligators in Maine; it's true I saw the documentary http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Placid_(film)
bamboo bob
03-31-2014, 10:21
Even in the Smokies people tent around the shelters. And in the Whites there are many many stealth sites which have been used for ages. I typically hike until I feel like stopping and water up and camp off trail between shelters. But when it's pouring getting to a shelter is very nice indeed. And once past Harpers Ferry very rarely full.
flemdawg1
03-31-2014, 15:03
Just been a passive reader of this great AT forum. Wealth of information here... would like to attempt a thru hike of the AT; but that most likely won't happen due to work and regular life. Have a couple of questions though concerning AT shelters.
It is possible or has anyone ever completed an AT thru hike without using the shelters... just by tent only? I would sleep better alone then hearing everyone snore in a shelter, so I would be likely to use a tent all the time rather then using a shelter from time to time.
Your thoughts?
You CAN hike the entire AT without using a shelter, you can also hike the entire AT hopping on one foot. Both ways are unnecessary. Try a shelter, then decide. Try it multiple times, sometimes the experience is dependent on the company. Some are nice, some are dirty. Some have mice, some have mice but you won't even know it.
You CAN hike the entire AT without using a shelter, you can also hike the entire AT hopping on one foot. Both ways are unnecessary. Try a shelter, then decide. Try it multiple times, sometimes the experience is dependent on the company. Some are nice, some are dirty. Some have mice, some have mice but you won't even know it.
I like the tone of this post. I often decide when I arrive. If the place looks nasty, or there's something about the people already there, or whatever... I move on. My last several sections have been off-season, and shelters mostly empty. Mice were generally not an issue.
Two shelters I didn't care for: Calf Mountain, Dick's Dome. Shelters not-to-be-missed: Pierce Pond (for the view and setting,) Bryant Ridge (impressive, modern structure.)
If I have any doubts about reaching a shelter before dark, I'll try to stock up on water so that (if need be) I can make camp in the woods.
What struck me at the time was that the guy's (first) thru-hike ended in VT. Rather than pick up from VT, he started another thru-hike the following year.
Very cool that the guy decided to start another thru the following year. I'd be willing to bet that he realized that bailing in VT provided enough of an excuse for him to spend another 5 months backpacking. :cool:
Although you would think he might have either done a Southbound hike the second time or at the least started in VT going north to Katahdin then back to VT and south, just in case something happened again (after all I doubt he expected it to happen the first time, so why would he expect an issue the second time).
That way at least he would have covered all of the trail once, rather than having something happen and having covered parts of the trail twice and still leaving parts he hadn't hiked.
fastfoxengineering
04-02-2014, 15:44
I haven't thru-hiked but I agree with what most people are saying. I can see it now, I'm wet, tired, hungry. There's a storm picking up. It's getting late, and voilla... a nice dry, clean, maybe empty shelter. Holdddd uppp. I'm staying there tonight. Why hike another 1/2 mile to set up my hammock in the pouring rain?
I'm open to using them. But I'll probably only resort to them under certain circumstances. Besides, I love my hammock, and if it's a nice night, I'd rather leave the shelter space for someone else.
Also hey, who knows you might come across a cool party at a shelter one night. If your into it, why the heck wouldn't you stay?
I've given up trying to plan out every little detail for my AT thru. I've got my gear, I'll have plenty of funds. I'm throwing everything out the window on springer and just going for it. Living day by day on the Appalachian Trail. Slowing things down for a bit.
full conditions
04-03-2014, 07:49
Good for lightening storms.... bout it...
Back in the early 80's (maybe 1983) two hikers were killed by lightening in the Mount Collins Shelter in the Smokies. Apparently they were both sitting on the bottom bunk when they were killed.
All comments are very interesting. I appreciate all the feedback and advice. I would still lean towards using a tent for the entire thru hike. That's what I would do... But of course a serious thunderstorm or something like that might change my mind.
Just Bill
04-03-2014, 17:48
Every hiker should plan on never using a shelter- better just to pretend they don't exist.
You can always leave your shelter in your bag and stay in one if you feel like it.
You can never pull a shelter you didn't bring from your bag if a shelter is full or unreachable.
If nothing else- some of the worst meltdowns I've seen anywhere have been from people who expect/demand/count on a spot in a shelter. Best way to ruin your trip IMO. NOBO with the herd and no shelter is insane.
jimmyjam
04-03-2014, 20:57
I understand that shelters help to concentrate impact use areas, thereby minimizing damage to other areas. But I still dislike them. I will tent near them. I have only stayed in them during torrential downpours and even then I found myself wishing I had tented.
coach lou
04-03-2014, 21:07
My first night on the trail was in a shelter, age 10. On the Little Rock pond Island had a shelter. It was the absolute coolest thing and helped grab my attention. When the weather is the worst, I want a spot in one. I carry a tarp....I want to be in it first, for sure. Some times they makea loud sucking sound, but i would not want to burn them all down. My apologies to my brother Marine!
All comments are very interesting. I appreciate all the feedback and advice. I would still lean towards using a tent for the entire thru hike. That's what I would do... But of course a serious thunderstorm or something like that might change my mind.
It's not something you have to decide ahead of time. Bring a tent, then make your decisions on a day to day basis.
It's best to conduct your entire hike that way--be prepared, but flexible.
MDSection12
04-03-2014, 22:27
There was a resident black widow in Ed Garvey shelter last year. :)
When I began this adventure (2006), I went out mid - late March, in PA, there was NOBODY on the AT
Had almost every shelter to myself.
Always carried a tent.
Today I steer clear of shelters, + the norovirus last year was a bit shocking to me, like 70+% of the thru hikers inflicted with it. Freaky!
Now, I would MUCH rather pitch a tent and sleep in the rain/snow than stay in a shelter. Last hike, 12 days, 1 night in a hotel, 1 night in a shelter (blizzard and 10 degrees North of Max Patch - wish that I had tented!!!), 10 in a tent.