Bear can smell this?

[skinnbones]

I plan to tent the entire trail. No shelters. I'm not going to carry a stove. SO, if I keep my pack inside my tent, food bag inside my pack, why is this not safe in active bear areas? There is no cooked food smell to linger and I have a pack layer and then a tent layer. A bear can still smell this? :confused:

[ekeverette]

I kept my food with me in my tent my entire hike, never had a problem....

[Sarcasm the elf]

Yes, a bear can smell that... But that doesn't mean it will bother you... (Someone will be by in a minute to refute this statement, but I'm confident in making it)

The only species of bear that inhabits the A.T. is the Black Bear and unless an individual bear has learned to associate people with food, they are naturally afraid and will avoid humans. Unless you are in an area that is known to have bears that are habituated to relying on humans for food (Southern Georgia, the Smoke Mountains, and a few other places) I wouldn't worry about it too much. But do keep your food attended to at all times, many animals, especially rodents will ransack your foodbag the moment that you step away from it.

[Lone Wolf]

well all i can say is i've spent hundreds of nites in a tent on the AT since 1986 and i cook and always keep everything in my tent and never had a problem with any kind of animal. i must be doing something right. but you're gonna hear different from the experts :)

[The Ace]

With the three responses above, you have gotten the very best, true, and accurate responses you could possibly get. Suggest you close this thread before it starts getting messed up.

[HooKooDooKu]

As I understand it, even if your food is in ziplock bags, a bear can still smell it. So the fact you have it in a bag in a backpack in a tent is meaningless.

But it's not only bears you will have to worry about. Other animals will try to get to your food and keeping it in your tent might mean that you wake up one morning with a hole in your tent/pack/bag... but then again you might not.

[RockDoc]

Correct.
I'll just add that since 1971 I've spent hundreds of nights under a tarp or tent, with food, on the AT. No problems. This includes a lot of cooking right outside the entrance, then eating in the tent and keeping all the food in the tent.
I wouldn't do it in grizzly habitat out west, or if there is known problem bear activity.
There is some risk, but I think it is very small.

[Meriadoc]

Yep bears can smell it. (Think about how you can smell the food in the supermarket aisles - particularly the cereal aisle. That stuff is encased in plastic but is quite easy to smell. And bears smell faint odors far better than humans.)
If a bear has associated humans with food, this is bad.
If a bear has not associated humans with food (the vast majority of the AT), this isn't really a problem. (I have heard the argument that it teaches bears to associate humans with food, but I'm not entirely convinced by that argument.)

[HikerMom58]

Yep bears can smell it. (Think about how you can smell the food in the supermarket aisles - particularly the cereal aisle. That stuff is encased in plastic but is quite easy to smell. And bears smell faint odors far better than humans.)
If a bear has associated humans with food, this is bad.
If a bear has not associated humans with food (the vast majority of the AT), this isn't really a problem. (I have heard the argument that it teaches bears to associate humans with food, but I'm not entirely convinced by that argument.)

+1....... what he said!

[Marta]

Never had a bear problem, but a mouse gnawed into the tent next to mine near Carter Gap Shelter once. There was a lot of shouting and the mouse damaged some of the girl's food.

Seriously--keep a clean camp (don't leave dirty cooking pots and food strewn around), and pay attention to reports of problem bears. If you get to an area where there are reports of bears stealing food and/or packs, hike on for a few more miles.

[Big Dawg]

I sleep with my food. Never a problem.

[colorado_rob]

well all i can say is i've spent hundreds of nites in a tent on the AT since 1986 and i cook and always keep everything in my tent and never had a problem with any kind of animal. i must be doing something right. but you're gonna hear different from the experts :) When I read a post like this, I have to ask myself: WHY have I bothered to wear my seatbelt for the 40 years I've been driving a car? Never once needed it.

Here is a good article by someone who has actually been around:

http://andrewskurka.com/2011/food-protection-techniques-in-bear-country/

Will you be OK simply sleeping with your food on the AT? Almost assuredly, yes. Do you want to learn proper bear discipline and do it right, assuming you will eventually branch out and hike in other areas? Why not start on your AT hike and go ahead and wear your seatbelt? Those Bear cables that are in many areas along the trail exist for a reason, don't they? Or are they frivolous and the officials and naturalists that put them there don't know what they are doing?

[Coffee]

I decided to order a couple of opsaks for testing since Skurka has written good things about odor resistant bags.

[Don H]

A bear's sense of smell is 300 times greater than ours, they can smell almost any food in any container. Even an odor resistant bag has residue from you handling it that they can smell.

There have been ia few rare ncidences where bears have torn into tents of people on or near the AT looking for food.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?28594-Scout-played-dead-when-attacked-by-a-bear

Most bears fear humans and will run when they smell you. Along most of the trail they are hunted (not on the trail but in nearby areas) and have learned that humans are to be avoided. If you see a bear while hiking consider yourself lucky. However bears in the National Parks (GSMNP, SNP) have learned that humans are a food source. People feeding bears, leaving food out, and garbage cans have taught those bears that when there's people around, there's food.

When I'm in a park I hang food, other than that I keep it in my tent. I would not keep food in a shelter because of mice.

Most people do not hang food sufficiently to keep a determined bear out of it unless it's on a bear pole or bag line.

[garlic08]

When I read a post like this, I have to ask myself: WHY have I bothered to wear my seatbelt for the 40 years I've been driving a car? Never once needed it.

Here is a good article by someone who has actually been around:

http://andrewskurka.com/2011/food-protection-techniques-in-bear-country/

Will you be OK simply sleeping with your food on the AT? Almost assuredly, yes. Do you want to learn proper bear discipline and do it right, assuming you will eventually branch out and hike in other areas? Why not start on your AT hike and go ahead and wear your seatbelt? Those Bear cables that are in many areas along the trail exist for a reason, don't they? Or are they frivolous and the officials and naturalists that put them there don't know what they are doing?

+1 on this. And here's a quote from Skurka's article, applicable to most of the AT:

"In areas with a low risk of bear incidents, and/or an area where no other food-protection technique is practical (e.g. a tree-less alpine area), I will sleep with my food. In bear language, this technique is interpreted as, “Hey Bear. This is MY food. And you’ll have to fight me for it.” Obviously I wouldn't stand a fighting chance against a bear but they hopefully decide that there are easier rewards elsewhere."

I find it relatively easy to throw a line over a tree branch, a two-minute chore usually (after plenty of practice). I do this more for mice than bear, especially if I'm going to be leaving my campsite for more than a few minutes during the evening. I think mice have caused more problems than bear on the trails. The worst damage I've had has been caused by ravens and, absolutely the worst, an ermine, which destroyed my pack to get to my food in a few minutes while I was getting water. I never leave my food unattended on the ground any more. It's not worth the risk for such a simple task, like buckling the seat belt.

[Pedaling Fool]

Another idiot here that keeps his food in his tent:D

I don't agree with the seatbelt analogy. Although, it does sound good, but that's the problem with analogies; you can make them sound good, but that doesn't mean they are accurate.

[HooKooDooKu]

When I read a post like this, I have to ask myself: WHY have I bothered to wear my seatbelt for the 40 years I've been driving a car? Never once needed it.

Here is a good article by someone who has actually been around:

http://andrewskurka.com/2011/food-protection-techniques-in-bear-country/

Will you be OK simply sleeping with your food on the AT? Almost assuredly, yes. Do you want to learn proper bear discipline and do it right, assuming you will eventually branch out and hike in other areas? Why not start on your AT hike and go ahead and wear your seatbelt? Those Bear cables that are in many areas along the trail exist for a reason, don't they? Or are they frivolous and the officials and naturalists that put them there don't know what they are doing?

When camp sites/shelters in GSMNP are temporarily closed "due to Bear Activity", I'm pretty sure it's really "due to humans not keeping food from bears".

[Pedaling Fool]

When camp sites/shelters in GSMNP are temporarily closed "due to Bear Activity", I'm pretty sure it's really "due to humans not keeping food from bears".I agree, that's true. And North Georgia is a good example of that when tons of people are hanging food out for the bears; unlike food in your tent, the trees don't scare the bears away from your food. :)

[SouthMark]

Another idiot here that keeps his food in his tent:D

I don't agree with the seatbelt analogy. Although, it does sound good, but that's the problem with analogies; you can make them sound good, but that doesn't mean they are accurate.

Ditto.....

[Lone Wolf]

When I read a post like this, I have to ask myself: WHY have I bothered to wear my seatbelt for the 40 years I've been driving a car? Never once needed it.

Here is a good article by someone who has actually been around:

http://andrewskurka.com/2011/food-protection-techniques-in-bear-country/

Will you be OK simply sleeping with your food on the AT? Almost assuredly, yes. Do you want to learn proper bear discipline and do it right, assuming you will eventually branch out and hike in other areas? Why not start on your AT hike and go ahead and wear your seatbelt? Those Bear cables that are in many areas along the trail exist for a reason, don't they? Or are they frivolous and the officials and naturalists that put them there don't know what they are doing?

i have a lot more experience on the AT than skurka

[slbirdnerd]

So far I have hung my food on the AT and intend to do so again this year unless I run into, uh, technical difficulties hanging it; why ask for trouble? And like others have said, it's even more about rodents than bears...

However, one of my favorite trails here in OH supposedly has a black bear or two around (I can't substantiate this). I have yet to hang my food there, but I did stuff my food bag in my smelly hiking shirt and stick it in my pack in my tent. In my head, the smelly shirt makes sense. Who knows.

[MDSection12]

1. Of course bears can smell through a tent and pack. Their noses are similar to dogs', which obviously do some pretty amazing stuff when it comes to smelling through material. Imagine if you had to 'sniff out' nearly every meal, you'd get pretty good at it right?

2. You should hang food on the AT, for any number of reasons, but many people don't with no issues. I usually do, but if for some reason I don't want to (rain) it doesn't bother me.

[Turk6177]

I have heard a lot of people put their stinky hiking clothes on top of their food bag. Whether this works or not, I don't know. Pirate from Neels Gap told me he kept his food with him the whole time (he has done several thru hikes). He said he smelled so bad no animal would go near his food anyway. Personally, I hang mine with the PCT method. It doesn't take very long to do it and get into a routine.

[Rain Man]

I agree with those who point out that it's not just the big critters to worry about. Mice have chewed right through tent nylon as well as pack nylon. I hang to keep from enticing bears and mice and etc. Though there are plenty of times I've hung my food bag merely as high as I could reach, simply to keep it away from ground critters. Interestingly, the only times I've had critters get into my food bags? On bear cables! More than once.

As far as a bear smelling food in your tent? Sure they can. Tracking dogs can smell some multiple time better than humans, like a 100 times better or some such. Bears can smell a similar multiple times better than tracking dogs. It's not even close comparing the three.

I do an extra thing. Bears are said to fear/hate dogs. I have my at-home daughter brush our dogs before my hiking trips and I stuff a ball of dog hair into the side pockets on each side of my backpack. I think it also keeps rampaging elephants away from my campsites, too, as none have been seen within 100 yards of same! :)

When Skurka writes "Hey Bear. This is MY food. And you’ll have to fight me for it," I mean me AND MY (non-existent) DOGS.

I also use one of the other techniques in the comments to Skurka's article. I mark "MY" territory. No idea what effect that has, but again, no rampaging elephants, so by the analysis some have used in this thread, it's very effective. ;)

P.S. It think the seat-belt analogy is a really good one.

Rain:sunMan

.

[HikerMom58]

I think the seat belt analogy rocks! :)

I don't think any hiker out there can know which bear is a "problem bear".

I don't care how many miles they've hiked.. means nothing.

[Lone Wolf]

I don't care how many miles they've hiked.. means nothing.your opinion, ma'am

[Spirit Walker]

Depends on the bear. On the AT, reading the register will usually tell you if there is an active bear in the area. In 1991- 93 there was a very fat bear in the Whites who got a lot of food off hikers. One friend said the bear just leaned into his tent, while he was in it. Scary night. In our case, after approaching us while we were cooking, he got most of our food off the trees in the middle of the night and then spent the night circling our tent sniffing out the food we had 'rescued' after we tried to confront him. That same year, a bear in PA took food from a hiker who was cooking in the shelter. I know several people who had bears steal their packs or food bags in the Sierras from inside their tents. But again, it was known that there were active bears in the area.

[Coffee]

I like Skurka's approach of camping at previously unused sites (using LNT). If bears are creatures of habit, they are less likely to approach a camp where they haven't seen people in the past. They might be scared of approaching. If they have successfully obtained food at a shelter, they will return again and again. I have planned daily mileage for my upcoming section based on shelters for convenience but plan to try camping in dispersed sites as much as I can to get practice with site selection and following LNT.

[10-K]

According to the number of scent receptors, the bear has the best sense of smell of all terrestrial mammals. Black bears have been observed to travel 18 miles in a straight line to a food source, while grizzlies can find an elk carcass when it's underwater and polar bears can smell a seal through 3 feet of ice. It's not all about food, though -- male polar bears have been known to trek a hundred miles following the scent of a sexually receptive sow.

My guess is that they can smell pretty good.

[RED-DOG]

I've cooked and slept with everything inside my tent with no problems, I think the problem lays with the number of people cooking/eating in the same area at the same time, The more people you have cooking/eating in the same area the more of a food odor you'll have, a bear can smell food like a mile away, as long you keep the area clean and the number of people camping in one spot to a minimum you shouldn't have any problems, since you are not gonna be cooking you shouldn't have any problems.

[Odd Man Out]

I have heard a lot of people put their stinky hiking clothes on top of their food bag. Whether this works or not, I don't know. Pirate from Neels Gap told me he kept his food with him the whole time (he has done several thru hikes). He said he smelled so bad no animal would go near his food anyway. Personally, I hang mine with the PCT method. It doesn't take very long to do it and get into a routine.

It's not that it smells bad (bears don't care). It is that you smell like a human. I consulted with a well known bear expert on this issue about a year ago. He admitted that the sleep with food logic is sound, although he continues to not do that. He told me about a case where a woman was "attacked" in her tent. The emergency medical response team commented that she used so much heavily scented shampoo, she smelled like fruit. If an EMT could smell it, you know the bear thought he was getting a cantaloupe and was disappointed to find it was just a human head. It is important to remember that part of safe practice in bear country (for both food hangers and food tenters) is to small like a human and leave the scented toiletries and cosmetics at home.


...I do an extra thing. Bears are said to fear/hate dogs. I have my at-home daughter brush our dogs before my hiking trips and I stuff a ball of dog hair into the side pockets on each side of my backpack.
This is a good idea. I have a Corgi who is willing to donate an infinite amount of hair for the cause.


..I think it also keeps rampaging elephants away from my campsites, too, as none have been seen within 100 yards of same! :)...
Excellent point. Also, the very tall fences around tennis course do a good job of keeping the Giraffes out, as I have never seen a Giraffe in a tennis court. Also proving that you can argue for almost anything using statistics.

[Odd Man Out]

The North American Bear Center has an excellent web page with loads of info about Black Bears based on many years of research by field biologists. This page (and scroll down to see pages 2-4) has lots of great info about bear-human interaction:

http://www.bear.org/website/bear-pages/black-bear/bears-a-humans.html?limitstart=0

Some interesting quotes:

"Black bears that are accustomed to people are no more likely to attack or kill. Three quarters of the killings by black bears are in remote areas of Canada and Alaska where bears have the least contact with people. Statistics show that where black bears are most accustomed to seeing people they are least likely to kill someone."

"Black bears have killed 61 people across North America since 1900. This no longer worries me. My chances of being killed by a domestic dog, bees, or lightning are vastly greater. My chances of being murdered are 60,000 times greater. One of the safest places a person can be is in the woods."

"A big revelation to me was how reluctant black bear mothers are to defend their cubs against people, even when the family is cornered in a den and I'm trying to stick the mother with a needle to tranquilize her. Defense of cubs is more a grizzly bear trait. There is no record of anyone being killed by a mother black bear defending her cubs, and attacks are very rare. We routinely capture black bear cubs in the presence of mothers and have never been attacked."

"The 750,000 black bears of North America kill less than one person per year on the average, while 1 out of each 16,000 people commits murder each year across North America. Most attacks by black bears attacks are defensive reactions to a person who is very close, which is an easy situation to avoid. Injuries from these defensive reactions are usually minor."

[Coffee]

What I think fascinates so many people about black bears is that they are one of the few animals out there that can overpower humans. Their propensity to do so does not really enter into the picture, as is the case with many phobias. The mental picture of bears being human predators starts young. When I told my five year old nephew about my plan to hike the John Muir Trail last year the first thing he asked me is whether a bear would eat me, and he still asks me about bears if I show him pictures from my trips.

[Drybones]

I plan to tent the entire trail. No shelters. I'm not going to carry a stove. SO, if I keep my pack inside my tent, food bag inside my pack, why is this not safe in active bear areas? There is no cooked food smell to linger and I have a pack layer and then a tent layer. A bear can still smell this? :confused:

Bears aren't ticky eaters, they dont care if it's cooked or not.

[adamkrz]

I would add chipmunks to watch out for, I saw a few tear up some poor hikers pack in Vermont.

[Odd Man Out]

I would add chipmunks to watch out for, I saw a few tear up some poor hikers pack in Vermont.

When backpacking on North Manitou Island (part of Sleeping Bear Dunes NL), you are required to sit through the talk about the microbears (i.e. chipmunks) before they give your your permit.

[The Ace]

Well, Skinnbones, I warned you.

[Drybones]

1. Of course bears can smell through a tent and pack. Their noses are similar to dogs', which obviously do some pretty amazing stuff when it comes to smelling through material. Imagine if you had to 'sniff out' nearly every meal, you'd get pretty good at it right?

2. You should hang food on the AT, for any number of reasons, but many people don't with no issues. I usually do, but if for some reason I don't want to (rain) it doesn't bother me.

Watched a special on polar bears, said they can smell a seal under 2' of snow two miles away....that's a little better than a dog.

[The Ace]

I think the seat belt analogy rocks! :)

I don't think any hiker out there can know which bear is a "problem bear".

I don't care how many miles they've hiked.. means nothing.

Seatbelt analogy rocks, really Mom? So, wear a steel helmet in case a limb falls on your head; drag a wire cable behind you along the ground in case you get struck by lightning; wear knee high snake proof boots; take a homing device, and for Pete’s sake wear a bullet proof vest and carry an AK 47 in case you encounter a criminal.

Now Mom, we have talked about this before: If you have an emotional fear because of past misconceptions somebody taught you about black bear behavior on the AT, then by all means carry your spray and hang your food (but hang it properly). You are who you are, and I have not and will not criticize you for your feelings. However, please at least attempt to apply some logic to your fears. We all know plenty of people hurt, and some who lost their lives, in automobile accidents. On the AT we know of people who have been killed by falling limbs, killed by lightening, bitten by snakes, disappeared, and been assaulted and murdered by criminals. Where is the list of people hurt by bears on the AT because they were asleep in their tent with their food by their side?

Finally, please consider the anecdotal evidence that in North Georgia, the excessive hanging of food bags in trees may be the cause of the “bear problem” and endangers the bears, not the humans.

[Pedaling Fool]

The North American Bear Center has an excellent web page with loads of info about Black Bears based on many years of research by field biologists. This page (and scroll down to see pages 2-4) has lots of great info about bear-human interaction:

http://www.bear.org/website/bear-pages/black-bear/bears-a-humans.html?limitstart=0

Some interesting quotes:

"Black bears that are accustomed to people are no more likely to attack or kill. Three quarters of the killings by black bears are in remote areas of Canada and Alaska where bears have the least contact with people. Statistics show that where black bears are most accustomed to seeing people they are least likely to kill someone."

"Black bears have killed 61 people across North America since 1900. This no longer worries me. My chances of being killed by a domestic dog, bees, or lightning are vastly greater. My chances of being murdered are 60,000 times greater. One of the safest places a person can be is in the woods."

"A big revelation to me was how reluctant black bear mothers are to defend their cubs against people, even when the family is cornered in a den and I'm trying to stick the mother with a needle to tranquilize her. Defense of cubs is more a grizzly bear trait. There is no record of anyone being killed by a mother black bear defending her cubs, and attacks are very rare. We routinely capture black bear cubs in the presence of mothers and have never been attacked."

"The 750,000 black bears of North America kill less than one person per year on the average, while 1 out of each 16,000 people commits murder each year across North America. Most attacks by black bears attacks are defensive reactions to a person who is very close, which is an easy situation to avoid. Injuries from these defensive reactions are usually minor."That is interesting, but I think we need to address or better define habituation. You got the habituation where people, even some scientist, allow bears to be accustomed to the presense of people in close quarters -- even petting the bears; then there is the habituation of bears to people at a distance (but relatively close) as is the case on many parts of the AT -- which is kind of unavoidable. The first case requires people to actively seek out a relationship with the bears and the second is just a byproduct of more people in a given habitat.

I guess there are other ways, but the worse would be humans feeding bears. This is far different than bears finding our food, whether in a tree or a dumpster or an unguarded tent. When they steal our food I don't believe that is the same as when we feed them. When we feed them they associate humans directly with food; when they steal from us it's no different than when they steal from another animal. However, when they learn, as in the case in north Georgia, that there is a regular source to steal from then that becomes a major problem.

I'm starting to ramble now, but suffice it to say I think all forms of habituation are bad, but the negative effect of some are not as noticable, at least in the short term. I agree on the surface that one can go amoung bears in relatively safety and it's even tempting, at least for me. However, in the long term I think that would be a disastorous practice, especially for the bears.


P.S. Maybe we can call it Habituation of the first kind; the second kind; the third kind...

Sort of like close encounters with aliens...:D

[skinnbones]

LOL, Just soaking in all this info. Thanks to all.

[bfayer]

The North American Bear Center has an excellent web page with loads of info about Black Bears based on many years of research by field biologists. This page (and scroll down to see pages 2-4) has lots of great info about bear-human interaction:

http://www.bear.org/website/bear-pages/black-bear/bears-a-humans.html?limitstart=0

Some interesting quotes:

"Black bears that are accustomed to people are no more likely to attack or kill. Three quarters of the killings by black bears are in remote areas of Canada and Alaska where bears have the least contact with people. Statistics show that where black bears are most accustomed to seeing people they are least likely to kill someone."

"Black bears have killed 61 people across North America since 1900. This no longer worries me. My chances of being killed by a domestic dog, bees, or lightning are vastly greater. My chances of being murdered are 60,000 times greater. One of the safest places a person can be is in the woods."

"A big revelation to me was how reluctant black bear mothers are to defend their cubs against people, even when the family is cornered in a den and I'm trying to stick the mother with a needle to tranquilize her. Defense of cubs is more a grizzly bear trait. There is no record of anyone being killed by a mother black bear defending her cubs, and attacks are very rare. We routinely capture black bear cubs in the presence of mothers and have never been attacked."

"The 750,000 black bears of North America kill less than one person per year on the average, while 1 out of each 16,000 people commits murder each year across North America. Most attacks by black bears attacks are defensive reactions to a person who is very close, which is an easy situation to avoid. Injuries from these defensive reactions are usually minor."

I don't believe eastern black bears are a significant threat to anyone, and I don't worry about them myself, but I have to say however that the stats quoted are very misrepresented (I know they are not your quotes Odd Man Out).

You can't count the entire population of the north america when calculating the odds of getting killed by a bear, it is just not intellectually honest. It is like calculating the odds of getting killed in a plane crash and including the entire population of people in the world, even though the majority of them don't fly in planes. Or like the one everyone has heard about handguns "People that own handguns are much more likely to be shot with their own gun than someone that does not own a handgun" Well duhhh, you can't be shot with your own gun if you don't own a gun. (That was actually a TV commercial back in the 70s) You still hear that one floated around to this day.

The only honest way to represent the statistics on bear attacks is to only count the people that are exposed to bear attacks. I don't think most people in NY (city), LA, or Chicago would count in that group. In our case the population group would be much smaller than represented in the above quotes.

My point is the author of the quotes either really doesn't care about presenting real statistics or they have an agenda.

The bottom line is you keep food away from bears not for the safety of humans, but for the safety of bears. More bears in this country have been killed for being a nuisance, than just about any other cause (other than maybe being run over by vehicles). We as hikers don't need to add to the body count. Store your food however you want, but keep it away from bears.

[RedBeerd]

I remember this guy http://www.thebearwhisperer.com/about-steve.html telling me that black bears are the "lazy stoners" of the bear world. After his talk with us I think I lost all fear of a bear encounter. The places a black bear would attack is a place where the bear has NEVER seen a person before. Typically, not where you'd be hiking. In the deep backcountry of Montana perhaps, and still, you'd have to be practicing some bad food etiquette.

[Hill Ape]

Absolutely no reason to fear black bear, a close encounter is a gift you'll keep for life. But to address the thread question. Yes, they can smell it. No matter what it is, or what you do. You will not fool their sense of smell, ever. They are just hungry, like you would not believe. They only want your food. That's it. Almost a promise that in your tent, they won't bother your food. They smell you, and want nothing to do with hiker trash. If a black bear comes around, and you want it to leave. YELL at it. Bang your pots. Throw things at it. It will leave, wondering *** your problem is, thinking you are very sketchy, you must have a problem.

[bfayer]

Absolutely no reason to fear black bear, a close encounter is a gift you'll keep for life. But to address the thread question. Yes, they can smell it. No matter what it is, or what you do. You will not fool their sense of smell, ever. They are just hungry, like you would not believe. They only want your food. That's it. Almost a promise that in your tent, they won't bother your food. They smell you, and want nothing to do with hiker trash. If a black bear comes around, and you want it to leave. YELL at it. Bang your pots. Throw things at it. It will leave, wondering *** your problem is, thinking you are very sketchy, you must have a problem.

Yep, they are omnivorous scavengers, not predators. Like most scavengers they are opportunists, and for the most part not willing to burn energy or risk injury screwing with a full size human just for a snack.

As long as we keep teaching them (what we already know) that people are freaking nuts, they will leave us alone.

[hilltackler]

I'm glad no one has ever had an issue with bears when they have slept with their food. I hang my food...but that's just me. It allows me to sleep without worrying some critter or bear is going to come visiting. Carry on...

[lonehiker]

Many don't hang out of laziness. The rest don't hang because they don't have the knowledge to do it properly.

[bamboo bob]

My two cents. If I camp where there are poles and other food contraptions, bear boxes etc. I use them. That's usually for the non bear critters too because if the bear devices are in place it's because a lot of people camp there (think, hawk mountain shelter) and there are lots of people and food. If I'm camped and have seen no bear sign what so ever. I keep the food in my tent. In bear country I don't cook where I camp and I hang my food (PCT method if possible) In shelters I use the mouse catchers or make one if the officious mouse catcher police have taken them down. Never any critter food problem of any kind anywhere in a lot of nights in the woods.

[vamelungeon]

Trying to hide odors from a black bear is like trying to hide your internal organs from an x-ray.

[Odd Man Out]

Many don't hang out of laziness. The rest don't hang because they don't have the knowledge to do it properly.

I am fairly confidnent that there is at least one more group of non-hangers.

[Marta]

I remember this guy http://www.thebearwhisperer.com/about-steve.html telling me that black bears are the "lazy stoners" of the bear world. After his talk with us I think I lost all fear of a bear encounter. The places a black bear would attack is a place where the bear has NEVER seen a person before. Typically, not where you'd be hiking. In the deep backcountry of Montana perhaps, and still, you'd have to be practicing some bad food etiquette.

One of my co-workers was attacked by a black bear "in the deep backcountry of Montana" (in the Bob Marshall Wilderness) while practicing exemplary food etiquette. We will never know whether it was a bear trained by more careless campers to associate humans with food, or not.

I'm planning a short hike in Georgia in a few weeks and as I pull my gear together for the trip, and realize there's no need for bear spray and so on, I'm a bit giddy about how jolly and civilized it's going to be on the AT compared to Montana. :)

[bfayer]

One of my co-workers was attacked by a black bear "in the deep backcountry of Montana" (in the Bob Marshall Wilderness) while practicing exemplary food etiquette. We will never know whether it was a bear trained by more careless campers to associate humans with food, or not.

I'm planning a short hike in Georgia in a few weeks and as I pull my gear together for the trip, and realize there's no need for bear spray and so on, I'm a bit giddy about how jolly and civilized it's going to be on the AT compared to Montana. :)

I hope your friend made it through without serious injury.

Everything I have read says that most black bear attacks up north and out west involve adolescent male bears that don't have the common sense not to go after a human, teenage stupidity is not just a human trait :)

Here in the east, a bear cannot grow up without significant interaction with humans, so I believe they learn much earlier to avoid humans than they do in the more remote areas out west and up north.

[Sarcasm the elf]

I hope your friend made it through without serious injury.

Everything I have read says that most black bear attacks up north and out west involve adolescent male bears that don't have the common sense not to go after a human, teenage stupidity is not just a human trait :)

Here in the east, a bear cannot grow up without significant interaction with humans, so I believe they learn much earlier to avoid humans than they do in the more remote areas out west and up north.

Here is a link to an article related to this point:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/11/science/11bears.html?_r=0

"The study also found, contrary to popular perception, that the black bears most likely to kill are not mothers protecting cubs. Most attacks, 88 percent, involved a bear on the prowl, likely hunting for food. And most of those predators, 92 percent, were male."

I should also mention this part:

"He might be surprised, then, by a new study that found that black bears — the most common bears in North America — have killed only 63 people in the United States and Canada over the last 109 years."

On average there is less than one fatal black bear attack per year in all of north america and according to wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America), most of these fatalities occurred in remote regions of canada (Which would fall in line with your assertion that they involve male beas with little understanding of the dangers that humans pose to them.)

[shakey_snake]

People generally don't understand rules about bears--because they're there to protect the bears, not you and your food. "works for me, LOL" is never the point.

You don't store your food in you tent because of problem bears--they are not scared of your hiker funk and will see you and your tent as a food source. However there are never really that many problem bears to begin with. The more heavily trafficked a place is, the more likely there are problem bears. So if "I've been sleeping with my food for 40 years..." guy has never slept in an area with problem bears--of course he hasn't had any issues.

If you can't follow all the rules about bear bagging (10-12 ft off the ground, 4 feet from the trunk, 3-4" branch), then you're better off sleeping with your food and chancing that there's no problem bears in your area. Because if you can't follow all the rules, a bear that happens by will get your food. If he does that, and/or eats trash enough, then he'll become a problem bear.

The bear rules are there to systematically protect the bears, not to followed or ignored by you based upon personal antidotes. Whenever possible, bear bag your food--not for you, for the bears.

[Marta]

I've posted about the bear attack in previous threads on the subject. In summary: He was camping solo in the Bob. The bear came through the tent and grabbed him by the head. He managed to reach his bear spray to get the bear to release him. The bear continued to circle. L. (he has avoided the press so I won't use his name) used up all his spray. The bear continued to circle. L. cut down his food and threw it to the bear. The bear ate it, plastic bags and all, and continued to circle. L. used his phone to record good-byes to his family and friends, and to take videos of the bear.

A Forest Service trail crew came along. They had a radio and called for help. L. was airlifted out by helicopter. A Forest Service hunting crew came in and shot the bear. He was positively IDed by the spray in his fur, the food in his stomach, and the blood under his claws. He was shot a mere 75' from L's campsite--even after all the other people, and the helicopter showed up, he didn't leave the area.

L's injuries were extensive and severe. He had three surgeries, spent ten days in the hospital, and another two weeks on IV antibiotics at home. His face still has large, visible scars. He was having quite a bit of trouble sleeping for a long time. He quit his job out here in the woods and moved into town.

The attack occurred in late September, when natural food sources are drying up and the weather is turning colder. I don't know whether this bear had been conditioned to associate humans with food by previous messy campers, or whether he was, as others have suggested, a young, wild bear who was not skilled at gathering his own food.

[Galia]

Relatively new section hiker Quill here: on a recent Springer to Newfound section hike, we hung on cables when available, hung on nails or other means in shelters. NOT bears, but rodents. Why spend all that $$$$ on equipment to have it chewed by hungry mice? Just sayin'.

[The Ace]

I've posted about the bear attack in previous threads on the subject. In summary: He was camping solo in the Bob. The bear came through the tent and grabbed him by the head. He managed to reach his bear spray to get the bear to release him. The bear continued to circle. L. (he has avoided the press so I won't use his name) used up all his spray. The bear continued to circle. L. cut down his food and threw it to the bear. The bear ate it, plastic bags and all, and continued to circle. L. used his phone to record good-byes to his family and friends, and to take videos of the bear.

A Forest Service trail crew came along. They had a radio and called for help. L. was airlifted out by helicopter. A Forest Service hunting crew came in and shot the bear. He was positively IDed by the spray in his fur, the food in his stomach, and the blood under his claws. He was shot a mere 75' from L's campsite--even after all the other people, and the helicopter showed up, he didn't leave the area.

L's injuries were extensive and severe. He had three surgeries, spent ten days in the hospital, and another two weeks on IV antibiotics at home. His face still has large, visible scars. He was having quite a bit of trouble sleeping for a long time. He quit his job out here in the woods and moved into town.

The attack occurred in late September, when natural food sources are drying up and the weather is turning colder. I don't know whether this bear had been conditioned to associate humans with food by previous messy campers, or whether he was, as others have suggested, a young, wild bear who was not skilled at gathering his own food.

Except that this was Montana, right?

[The Ace]

You don't store your food in you tent because of problem bears--they are not scared of your hiker funk and will see you and your tent as a food source. However there are never really that many problem bears to begin with. The more heavily trafficked a place is, the more likely there are problem bears. So if "I've been sleeping with my food for 40 years..." guy has never slept in an area with problem bears--of course he hasn't had any issues.

The guy that you are referring to, and a number of us on here, have for decades slept in tents with their food without incident in areas of both the AT and the East where “problem” bears have been reported.

[MTn music]

Bears have a pretty good sense of smell. Here, in Montana, they tell us to put our food in bear storage devices or enclosed vehicles in bear prone areas. There have been a few instances were the bears destroyed cars getting to the food. It's rare, but it happens. Most people still lock their food in their vehicles, or pop-up tent campers, though.

It's all about the risk you are willing to take. Most people don't have problems with bears. It's a matter of what you are willing to go through, if you aren't so lucky. The bear may try to get your food whether it's away from your sleeping area or not. Only you can decide, if fending off a bear in your sleeping area is something you are willing to do.

[lonehiker]

And when a bear does decide to go for someone's food, the "victim" is the first to demand action be taken against the "problem" bear.

[double d]

My two cents. If I camp where there are poles and other food contraptions, bear boxes etc. I use them. That's usually for the non bear critters too because if the bear devices are in place it's because a lot of people camp there (think, hawk mountain shelter) and there are lots of people and food. If I'm camped and have seen no bear sign what so ever. I keep the food in my tent. In bear country I don't cook where I camp and I hang my food (PCT method if possible) In shelters I use the mouse catchers or make one if the officious mouse catcher police have taken them down. Never any critter food problem of any kind anywhere in a lot of nights in the woods.
Good answer Bamboo Bob, this is what I do as well

[Odd Man Out]

I've posted about the bear attack in previous threads on the subject....

Was this a Grizzly or Black bear?

[The Ace]

And when a bear does decide to go for someone's food, the "victim" is the first to demand action be taken against the "problem" bear.

But really now, is there a list, or other identification of circumstances, anywhere of individuals on the AT who while sleeping in their tents with their food have been hurt by a bear entering their tent for the purpose of attempting to take their food and such individuals have then “demand[ed] action to be taken against the ‘problem’ bear”?

[Odd Man Out]

Bears have a pretty good sense of smell. Here, in Montana, they tell us to put our food in bear storage devices or enclosed vehicles in bear prone areas. There have been a few instances were the bears destroyed cars getting to the food. It's rare, but it happens. Most people still lock their food in their vehicles, or pop-up tent campers, though.

It's all about the risk you are willing to take. Most people don't have problems with bears. It's a matter of what you are willing to go through, if you aren't so lucky. The bear may try to get your food whether it's away from your sleeping area or not. Only you can decide, if fending off a bear in your sleeping area is something you are willing to do.

Leaving your your food in a car is a completely separate issue from sleeping with your food in your tent. How many cars or trailers that are opened up by a bear are occupied at the time?

[Odd Man Out]

Was this a Grizzly or Black bear?

Never mind. I see from your earlier post you said it was a Black Bear.

[Pedaling Fool]

The way some talk about black bears, if you didn't know any better, you'd think that they would pounce on you while eating your pot full on noodles.

[Pedaling Fool]

I hope your friend made it through without serious injury.

Everything I have read says that most black bear attacks up north and out west involve adolescent male bears that don't have the common sense not to go after a human, teenage stupidity is not just a human trait :)

Here in the east, a bear cannot grow up without significant interaction with humans, so I believe they learn much earlier to avoid humans than they do in the more remote areas out west and up north.
I heard the exact same theory of why some mountain lions attack people, especially in this one region, but I forget where...

It kind of makes sense, but it also makes sense that any bear not familar with people would attack them as a foodsource, not just the young.

[The Ace]

The way some talk about black bears, if you didn't know any better, you'd think that they would pounce on you while eating your pot full on noodles.
Manifestly, and unfortunately, some hikers leave their uneaten noodles on the ground around established campsites and shelters. But, by George, they hang their next meals from trees.

[MTn music]

I was just trying to show that bears do have a good sense of smell by the cars getting opened. No one has been in them yet, but I'd be wary sleeping in a pop-up, tent-sided trailer with food and bears around. That's my preference though.

[Marta]

Except that this was Montana, right?

Yes, Montana. A black bear.

[southern9]

I plan to tent the entire trail. No shelters. I'm not going to carry a stove. SO, if I keep my pack inside my tent, food bag inside my pack, why is this not safe in active bear areas? There is no cooked food smell to linger and I have a pack layer and then a tent layer. A bear can still smell this? :confused:

Um, yeah. A bear has an incredible sense of smell. They smell better than we see. Bears can probably smell food in the air long after its gone.

[MuddyWaters]

Bears are like people, or dogs, etc. They all have personalities, and are in part, a product of their environment.

A measurable percentage of people are what we call "violent criminals". They are not 'normal"

There are some bears out there, that the norms dont apply to as well. It is unreasonable to expect every one to run at the sight, sound, or smell of a human.

However, the chances of running into the abnormal bear in a bad mood, is like encountering a murderous thug in the city. It might happen, but the chances arent high enough that everyone feels they must carry protection 24-7.

[The Ace]

However, the chances of running into the abnormal bear in a bad mood, is like encountering a murderous thug in the city. It might happen, but the chances arent high enough that everyone feels they must carry protection 24-7.

This is a MUCH better analogy than seatbelts.

[Don H]

Leaving your your food in a car is a completely separate issue from sleeping with your food in your tent. How many cars or trailers that are opened up by a bear are occupied at the time?

Google "bear opens car". There's dozens of videos on youtube. It happens all the time in parks.