Bear encounters and what to do?

[DEETAR]

So me and a buddy were doing a three day trip up in Shining Rock Wilderness area last weekend, and encountered a pretty big size black bear. We were camping in an open grassy area on the Art Loeb Trail, so there were no trees to hang our gear. We placed our gear about 20 feet from our tent with a tarp over it, and right when it got dark the bear came, ripped all of our stuff to shreds, drug my buddys bag away, and then came back and hung around for about two hours. We just layed there and eventually he went away, but I was curious as to other peoples encounters and what their actions were in that situation.

[Shutterbug]

So me and a buddy were doing a three day trip up in Shining Rock Wilderness area last weekend, and encountered a pretty big size black bear. We were camping in an open grassy area on the Art Loeb Trail, so there were no trees to hang our gear. We placed our gear about 20 feet from our tent with a tarp over it, and right when it got dark the bear came, ripped all of our stuff to shreds, drug my buddys bag away, and then came back and hung around for about two hours. We just layed there and eventually he went away, but I was curious as to other peoples encounters and what their actions were in that situation.
When I encounter a bear, I grab my camera. They always run away as soon as I start taking pictures.

[Malto]

Just because you were camping in an open meadow doesn't mean you couldn't find a good hang nearby. The last thing I would do with food is leave it like you did. I would use it as a pillow before leaving it a short distance away on the ground.

[TNhiker]

that area seemingly has problems with bears every year......

and it has to do with that area's popularity.......

you could have tried throwing rocks at the bear.......making noise.........basically trying to scare it a little...

but, my guess is that none of those would have really helped.....as this bear probably is used to humans and our bizarre antics.....

[Dogwood]

I was in Aravaipa Canyon in Arizona a couple days ago and saw a nice sandy beach high above the creek that would have made a shweet campsite. Unfortunately, a scrounging momma bear and her two well fed shaggy furred cubs were in the area too. Thought it best I keep moving on. Sometimes, it's best to leave the bears to do their bear things without enticing them with your trail food odors.

[Shutterbug]

I was in Aravaipa Canyon in Arizona a couple days ago and saw a nice sandy beach high above the creek that would have made a shweet campsite. Unfortunately, a scrounging momma bear and her two well fed shaggy furred cubs were in the area too. Thought it best I keep moving on. Sometimes, it's best to leave the bears to do their bear things without enticing them with your trail food odors.

I love Aravaipa Canyon -- one of my favorite hikes.

[goin'4ahike]

When I encounter a bear, I grab my camera. They always run away as soon as I start taking pictures.

Great pic, Shutterbug!!

[jimmyjam]

For black bears, clapping your hands together, making noise and making yourself look as big as possible usually runs them off. I would have walked until I found someplace to make a hang or as a last resort, keep my food with me.

[Pedaling Fool]

Leave your stuff unattended and a bear will rip it apart; keep it with you and let the bear know that it's your stuff.

[Del Q]

I agree 100% on keeping the food with you, did it a few times on my last hike, super nasty weather, two nights in the snow. Was not in the mood to go out and bear bag my food.

No problems

Met a PCT hiker who always uses his food as a pillow all of the time and has never had a problem.

[mad4scrapping]

Would a loud air horn scare a bear away?

[jimmyjam]

Would a loud air horn scare a bear away?

Yes that and everyone and everything.

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

[leaftye]

I had a long answer, but I'm just going to tell you to read Trail Life (http://www.amazon.com/Trail-Life-Jardines-Lightweight-Backpacking/dp/0963235974/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1398098989&sr=1-1). He has a chapter about bears, but he talks about them a LOT throughout the book. He has lots of other advice too, some of which you can take verbatim, but some should only be read as an example to help get you into a certain mindset. You should HYOH, start with the latter and adopt the bits of the former that suit you.

[bighammer]

It may have cost you your gear and your food, but it may cost the bear its life. After successful "raids" like that, they get less afraid of humans (and bolder in future encounters) because of past rewards.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Would a loud air horn scare a bear away?


Don't know if it will scare away the bears, but it will definitely earn you a new trailname. :D

[The Ace]

In the Black Balsams, just like the rest of the Southern Appalachians, it’s all about possession. Keep your food in your possession at night in odor reducing bags in your tent and chase off any black bears that approach your campsite. On those balds, they can’t hide from you, either.



Not far from where you spent the night, and an easy amble for a bear, are the camping areas in the Graveyard Fields that are used and abused by overnight campers. Campers leave food out and trash behind and the bears have a history of scavenging the campsite. Myths abound: In October 2012, the forest service prohibited overnight camping in Shining Rock and the Graveyard Fields after panicking overnight campers in Shining Rock reported that a bear attacked them in their tent. The bear actually entered a separate tent where the miss-educated campers had separately stored their food.


In the area where the OP camped, one can easily be more than a mile away from a tree. It makes no sense to me to walk all the way to a black balsam grove to hang a food bag unattended for the night. Camping on the balds is magnificent on a clear night. Just keep possession of your food.

[The Ace]

Would a loud air horn scare a bear away?

Once a black bear has your stuff, probably not, or the bear will run off with whatever he has in his possession. If you are in possession of your stuff, usually just saying “move along bear” works.

[gof]

Bear Spray...if you could get close enough....LOL

[Leanthree]

If you are in an area with a known problem bear, pile up rocks next to your tent so you have some ammo when the bear comes around.

Your particular problem was placing your food on the ground away from you. If the bear didn't get it, there is a good chance rodents or racoons or corvids or would have. Hang your stuff from a tree. If there is no tree then either find one or keep your stuff next to your body as wrapped up as possible.

[martinb]

You can sleep with it in the tent but you never know what bear is going to show up. Shining rock has had problems with aggressive bears in the recent past. I wouldn't take the chance of keeping food in the tent, there. Rent or buy a canister if you hike in this area.

[Rolls Kanardly]

I was in Aravaipa Canyon in Arizona a couple days ago and saw a nice sandy beach high above the creek that would have made a shweet campsite. Unfortunately, a scrounging momma bear and her two well fed shaggy furred cubs were in the area too. Thought it best I keep moving on. Sometimes, it's best to leave the bears to do their bear things without enticing them with your trail food odors.
Good to see your had a nice hike. Rolls



26810

[Odd Man Out]

Here's a good source:

http://www.bear.org/website/bear-pages/black-bear/bears-a-humans/38-what-if-i-see-a-black-bear.html
and
http://www.bear.org/website/bear-pages/black-bear/bears-a-humans/199-what-if-i-see-a-bear-that-seems-threatening.html

I especially like this part: "When a black bear approaches a hiker and shows bluster, some people think the bear learned to do that to make the person drop his or her backpack. In fact, brochures along the Appalachian Hiking Trail advise people to do just that. In truth, bluster means a bear is too nervous to approach calmly. Blustery bears are particularly easy to chase away. Nevertheless, hikers who see blustery bears often drop their backpacks like the brochures say, making some people wonder if the bears wrote the brochures."

[bamboo bob]

I have never heard that. I would like to see one of those brochures. That is really moronic if true.

[Dogwood]

I agree 100% on keeping the food with you, did it a few times on my last hike, super nasty weather, two nights in the snow. Was not in the mood to go out and bear bag my food.

No problems

Met a PCT hiker who always uses his food as a pillow all of the time and has never had a problem.

I often sleep with my food bag under my head as a pillow(it's often either that as a pillow or my shoes) in Black Bear country and never had an issue until Bryce Canyon NP. I was sleeping with my food bag as a pillow up against a knee high wall(made for a good backrest) at Rainbow Point when I was awakened by a med sized Black Bear reaching over the wall attempting to grab my closed food sack I was using as a pillow from under my head. Scared me. I remember smelling and feeling the hot bereath of the grunting bear he was that close. He didn't get my food sack but managed to knock over and rummage through all the trash cans in the parking lot making an incredible mess on his departure from where I was camping.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Here's a good source:

http://www.bear.org/website/bear-pages/black-bear/bears-a-humans/38-what-if-i-see-a-black-bear.html
and
http://www.bear.org/website/bear-pages/black-bear/bears-a-humans/199-what-if-i-see-a-bear-that-seems-threatening.html

I especially like this part: "When a black bear approaches a hiker and shows bluster, some people think the bear learned to do that to make the person drop his or her backpack. In fact, brochures along the Appalachian Hiking Trail advise people to do just that. In truth, bluster means a bear is too nervous to approach calmly. Blustery bears are particularly easy to chase away. Nevertheless, hikers who see blustery bears often drop their backpacks like the brochures say, making some people wonder if the bears wrote the brochures."

The highlighted bit is one of the funniest (and most true) things that I have read on this site in a while.

[Meriadoc]

Whoa. I have never read a brochure that said to drop a pack. All the information I have ever come by talks about bear posturing and bluff charges.

[The Ace]

You can sleep with it in the tent but you never know what bear is going to show up. Shining rock has had problems with aggressive bears in the recent past. I wouldn't take the chance of keeping food in the tent, there. Rent or buy a canister if you hike in this area.

What do you mean by “aggressive”? (Nobody defines an “encounter” with a bear either.) My 25 pound dog will steal my sandwich if I walk out of the room. Where are the documented accounts of bears entering into and attacking a sleeping backpacker for his food in Shining Rock?

[HikerMom58]

What do you mean by “aggressive”? (Nobody defines an “encounter” with a bear either.) My 25 pound dog will steal my sandwich if I walk out of the room. Where are the documented accounts of bears entering into and attacking a sleeping backpacker for his food in Shining Rock?

The Ace... I define "aggressive" as in a bear trying to enter your tent after a half eaten peppermint patty in ur tent pocket. OR a bear "mouthing" a hiker in a hammock.

What do you think?

[The Ace]

The Ace... I define "aggressive" as in a bear trying to enter your tent after a half eaten peppermint patty in ur tent pocket. OR a bear "mouthing" a hiker in a hammock.

What do you think?

But,
1) has this been documented to have happened in Shining Rock while a hiker was sleeping in his tent?

2) how is a hiker safer if he/she hangs his food but leaves a half eaten peppermint patty in the tent pocket?

[Dogwood]

But,
1) has this been documented to have happened in Shining Rock while a hiker was sleeping in his tent?

2) how is a hiker safer if he/she hangs his food but leaves a half eaten peppermint patty in the tent pocket?


2) what would you do for a York Peppermint Patty as a snack if all day you had munched nothing but berries? OR,: toothpaste, toothbrush, soap, shampoo, hand sanitizer, trail bar, trail mix, etc. Same scenario.


"Mouthing" a hiker in a hammock? Hmmm? What does that mean? :D

[HikerMom58]

But,
1) has this been documented to have happened in Shining Rock while a hiker was sleeping in his tent?

2) how is a hiker safer if he/she hangs his food but leaves a half eaten peppermint patty in the tent pocket?

1) I do not know.

2) We agree on this point. It's not a problem with the bear, it's a problem with the hikers. I can't control what other hikers do & what bear "learn" from the negligent behavior of those hikers, concerning their food.

Bottom line for me: I have to be concerned about problem bear on the AT. Those bear will try to "score" more food & will not be afraid of humans. That's a problem.

[The Ace]

1) I do not know.

2) We agree on this point. It's not a problem with the bear, it's a problem with the hikers. I can't control what other hikers do & what bear "learn" from the negligent behavior of those hikers, concerning their food.

Bottom line for me: I have to be concerned about problem bear on the AT. Those bear will try to "score" more food & will not be afraid of humans. That's a problem.

Are the bears in the Southern Appalachians becoming less afraid of hikers because hikers are sleeping with their food in their tents, or is it because hikers, who have been taught all of these false myths about black bear “aggression”, are hanging food bags and the bears have associated humans with food bags. I wonder if the black bear that walked into my campsite in North Georgia and sat down was simply waiting to see if I was going to walk out in the woods and hang a bag of food for him? One thing was clear: No way did that overgrown hairball have the guts to come into my tent. (One might add a third option -- that it’s because hikers/campers are leaving their trash behind. However, this human behavior is not new, and it seems to me that the woods are less trash-filled than in decades past.)


It also seems to me that actively teaching hikers (again, I am only talking about the Southern Appalachians) to aggressively run off black bears is the better solution than accepting the myths and recommending hanging food based on these myths. Notice that the OP said that “they just layed there” until the bear went away, and another poster was unaware of the bluffing habits of black bears. However, it appears that food bag hanging is ingrained in many – just like the myths of black bear behavior is ingrained. So, we endanger wildlife because we have a false understanding of wildlife.

[Glynn Dilbeck]

I was taught to place all smellables in a bear bag to be hung at least 10 feet off of the ground. I set up my hammock/tent at least 50 feet from the bear bag. Im not gonna keep any type of food item or smellable in my possession at night. I'm not gonna play the "it's mine, not yours" game with any bear.

[The Ace]

2) what would you do for a York Peppermint Patty as a snack if all day you had munched nothing but berries? OR,: toothpaste, toothbrush, soap, shampoo, hand sanitizer, trail bar, trail mix, etc. Same scenario.


"Mouthing" a hiker in a hammock? Hmmm? What does that mean? :D

I don’t know, but if it’s a polite bear, it will eat the peppermint patty before “mouthing” me

[MuddyWaters]

Keep your food within arms length, or less. Hang it properly Use a bearcan Or just stay home. A lot of hikers should do the latter.

[Pedaling Fool]

There are different levels of habituation, clearly actively feeding bears would be the worst, by far and leaving food around for bears to forage would probably be second on the list. However, just hikers being out there is a form of habituation, because they relearn that we are really not to be feared, because they see that the only reaction from the "threat" is a bunch of Ohhh'ing and ahhh'ing and raising some weird contraption and pusing a button:-?

I do wonder how that form of habituation effects the bears' behavior over a long period of time.

[martinb]

What do you mean by “aggressive”? (Nobody defines an “encounter” with a bear either.) My 25 pound dog will steal my sandwich if I walk out of the room. Where are the documented accounts of bears entering into and attacking a sleeping backpacker for his food in Shining Rock?

There was an aggressive bear encounter in that area a couple of years ago. IIRC correctly, a bear entered a camp and took a pack/foodbag at tooth-point. I do not know if the pack/bag was in a tent.

[bamboo bob]

On the AT the only place I saw bears getting peoples food was from people hanging their bear bags out back of Mountain Crossing where they camp as overflow from the hostel. Last time was 2012 in March.

[Odd Man Out]

There are different levels of habituation, clearly actively feeding bears would be the worst, by far and leaving food around for bears to forage would probably be second on the list. However, just hikers being out there is a form of habituation, because they relearn that we are really not to be feared, because they see that the only reaction from the "threat" is a bunch of Ohhh'ing and ahhh'ing and raising some weird contraption and pusing a button:-?

I do wonder how that form of habituation effects the bears' behavior over a long period of time.

We went for a walk around Yosemite Valley early in the morning and came across a bear up in an apple tree munching on apples. This was about 10 yards from the back door to one of the cabin buildings of the Yosemite Lodge so there were a couple dozen people, surrounding the bear, wearing their pajamas, and taking pictures. Clearly this bear was habituated to humans. I've read that these bears will not run from the humans as long as they behave as expected. I guess that so many people have been taught to bang pots and pans together to scare away bear that they learn to expect this and it no longer scares them off. But the same bear would run away if you waved a plastic garbage bag over your head, because that was something he hadn't seen before.

How the bear got into all those pajamas I'll never know.
26821

[HikerMom58]

You guys are hilarious! I love this thread and all of you guys! :D

I agree with Glynn's post.

The Ace- I'm not an expert about bear at all. I do trust the people that have studied them to give sound advice about interacting with them.

I do understand that they are wild animals. My mom had a HS classmate that was killed by a black bear. He worked at Clark's Trading Post in the Whites. He was around the bear all the time. One day he while feeding them, one of them attacked & killed him for no apparent reason.

I'm not the "bear whisperer" I'm not a Steve Irwin. (RIP Steve) Right or wrong, I want them to keep their distance from me & run from me when they see me. This type of relationship with these wild animals makes sense to me.

I will do everything in my power, while in their home, to keep them from wanting to get close to me.

I will say this- If everyone had kept their food safely away from the bear by whatever method they chose, we wouldn't have a problem.

I don't want to have it out with a bear over food.

The couple that had the peppermint candy in the tent pocket did keep the bear from getting it but I wouldn't have wanted to go through that encounter, myself.

The TJ that I read about this said, that the bear lurked still hoping to snag the candy even after the guy got it to go away from their tent.

He kicked it in the face first and then set off fire crackers after that. No can do....

Apparently the hikers staying in the shelter was upset that the guy was setting off fire crackers in the middle of the night. They weren't concerned about the bear, themselves. The bear wasn't bothering them.

[Odd Man Out]

I guess it's not just the bears that become habituated.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152204153473972&set=a.96184583971.84688.96180008971&type=1&theater

[Sarcasm the elf]

I guess it's not just the bears that become habituated.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152204153473972&set=a.96184583971.84688.96180008971&type=1&theater

I was hoping to see a photo of hikers flocking to a trail side feed.

[Odd Man Out]

I was hoping to see a photo of hikers flocking to a trail side feed.

Yes, another good example of why you should not feed the wildlife.

[HikerMom58]

Yes, another good example of why you should not feed the wildlife.

Ha Ha!!! :D They look wild and smell wild, sometimes!

[The Ace]

There was an aggressive bear encounter in that area a couple of years ago. IIRC correctly, a bear entered a camp and took a pack/foodbag at tooth-point. I do not know if the pack/bag was in a tent.

The original story reported in the local press in October of 2012 was that a bear seized a food bag and damaged a tent occupied by campers in the Shining Rock. The implication was that the bear damaged a tent occupied by the campers and took their food bag out of their tent. The correct story given later by a ranger was that overnight campers had put their food in one tent and slept in another. According to the ranger, the bear damaged the tent containing the food and “brushed” against the tent they were occupying. Once again, it is a disservice to both hikers and the black bears in the Southern Appalachians to say a bear took food at “tooth point”. There remains no evidence that a bear has ever entered into a tent occupied by a sleeping hiker and attacked the hiker for his/her food in Shining Rock. The myths that keep on being circulating lead to unnecessary and potentially harmful results.

[The Ace]

Here are the bear incident reports in the Smokey Mountain News in October 2012. The source of the reports was not given. The “camps” are the overused, poorly-cleaned, campgrounds, primarily in the Graveyard Fields. A North Carolina biologist was quoted a saying that it was likely a single bear. The camping areas were (quietly) reopened in early 2013.



Oct 15, nighttime; Graveyard Fields — Camper had a bear-proof food bag in tree. Bear climbed the tree and tore open the bag and ate the food. The bear came back five times during the night and in one instance made contact with tent.
Oct. 6, nighttime; Shining Rock Wilderness — Bear entered camp, while campers were in their tent, and climbed the tree and took their food. The bear later left but returned and disturbed a camper’s pack. The campers tried to scare bear away, but it would not leave. The bear was not frightened of humans. Later, the couple returned to their campsite and found pack torn and tent shredded. They were uneasy with the boldness of the bear.
Oct. 6, evening; Shining Rock Wilderness — Bear came and chewed up cans and camping equipment. The bear was after the food. The campers were not there at the time. Afterward, the campers came back to camp and settled down, and the bear returned. The campers had to make significant noise to get bear to go away.
Oct. 6, evening; Shining Rock Wilderness — The bear entered the campsite at suppertime and grabbed the campers’ food bag. The bear came back two more times.
Incident reported on Oct. 2, Graveyard Fields — Bear took the food bag down and dragged it into the woods.
Incident reported on Sept. 29; Black Balsam — Bear managed to climb a tree and broke the rope the food bag was hanging on.
Sept. 22, evening; Shining Rock Wilderness – Bear approached the campsite. Campers made noise with pots and pans, but the bear did not seem intimidated. Campers were getting their food out and getting ready for dinner when the bear had approached.
Sept. 1; Black Balsam — Campers’ hung food bag was snatched away.

[martinb]

The original story reported in the local press in October of 2012 was that a bear seized a food bag and damaged a tent occupied by campers in the Shining Rock. The implication was that the bear damaged a tent occupied by the campers and took their food bag out of their tent. The correct story given later by a ranger was that overnight campers had put their food in one tent and slept in another. According to the ranger, the bear damaged the tent containing the food and “brushed” against the tent they were occupying. Once again, it is a disservice to both hikers and the black bears in the Southern Appalachians to say a bear took food at “tooth point”. There remains no evidence that a bear has ever entered into a tent occupied by a sleeping hiker and attacked the hiker for his/her food in Shining Rock. The myths that keep on being circulating lead to unnecessary and potentially harmful results.

The tooth-point thing was an attempt to lighten the mood. The facts are a bear entered a tent and obtained food. This is aggressive behavior on the part of the bear and contributes to learned behavior. The bear now equates tents with food, whether they are occupied or not.

[Odd Man Out]

The tooth-point thing was an attempt to lighten the mood. The facts are a bear entered a tent and obtained food. This is aggressive behavior on the part of the bear and contributes to learned behavior. The bear now equates tents with food, whether they are occupied or not.

I'm not willing to make that conclusion. I think the fact that the tent was unoccupied is significant. The bear now equates UNOCCUPIED tents with food. That's no more aggressive than taking a food bag from a tree. In Ace's post above, not a single incident involved the bear going after food that was in the possession of a human. It certainly should be labeled a nuisance bear, but aggressive?

[Pedaling Fool]

The tooth-point thing was an attempt to lighten the mood. The facts are a bear entered a tent and obtained food. This is aggressive behavior on the part of the bear and contributes to learned behavior. The bear now equates tents with food, whether they are occupied or not.So I guess that means bears that have gotten food from backpacks now equate backpacks with food, whether they are occupied or not. Sounds like we really will need drones now so we don't carry food in our packs:D

[martinb]

I'm not willing to make that conclusion. I think the fact that the tent was unoccupied is significant. The bear now equates UNOCCUPIED tents with food. That's no more aggressive than taking a food bag from a tree. In Ace's post above, not a single incident involved the bear going after food that was in the possession of a human. It certainly should be labeled a nuisance bear, but aggressive?

You are sure that, if the food had been in the next door tent with the hikers, the bear would not have tried to get it? I'm not willing to take that chance, with this particular bear, miles from help.

[martinb]

So I guess that means bears that have gotten food from backpacks now equate backpacks with food, whether they are occupied or not. Sounds like we really will need drones now so we don't carry food in our packs:D

That would be pretty awesome wouldn't it? Just signal the drone to drop some goodies. Unless it crashed, then you would be grylis-ing it on the way out.

[Odd Man Out]

You are sure that, if the food had been in the next door tent with the hikers, the bear would not have tried to get it? I'm not willing to take that chance, with this particular bear, miles from help.

Not willing to to take that chance is reasonable conclusion. I consulted with a bear researcher on this very issue about a year ago (as this question comes up often on WB). He came to the same conclusion as you - not wanting to that chance. But he also admitted that protecting your food, yourself, and the bear by maintaining possession of your food is ALSO a reasonable conclusion, based on lots of evidence that habituated bears are less dangerous than "wild" bears and that bears would rather avoid humans than get your food. I was just observing that the evidence reported in previous posts seem consistent with the research and that public perception of bear behavior and the way it is reported in media often seems not to be consistent with the research.

[misterfloyd]

To the original post:

Where on the Art Loeb specifically was the problem at? Was it Ivesters Gap?

Yes, there have been many times that Graveyard fields and other places near that area have been closed because of food and bears. It has bummed me out many times in planning :(

In response to the original post: Keep walking and find somewhere to hang it.

What to do if you run into a black bear hiking (on foot)? 1) make a bunch of noise and throw rocks. 2) make yourself look bigger, make noise. 3) Bushwhack around it, especially if it is a mother and it's cubs. 4) I have a bear bell that I put on a trekking pole, it has helped. I hike alone, and it has allowed me to see the backsides of two from springer to Fontana Hilton.

I have been in the area you have described, and in the surrounding areas. I never leave food out, I always hang it, either from Bears or other creatures. I agree Bears in shinning rock are getting more aggressive because of trash either in Graveyard fields, Ivesters Gap, or the heavily used "sites" north of Flower Gap. When I do the Art Loeb, I try to stay away from over nighting in those sites because of the reasons stated.

Floyd

[Game Warden]

As I write this I am trying to reunite a sow and two cubs who were seperated from her two other cubs. There is also a yearling male in the area, and another who was killed on Rt 39 a month ago. These bears are here because people feed them--people with corn feeders, bird feeders, deer feeders, turkey feeders, hummingbird feeders, stray cat feeders, etc. I don't have bear problems, I have people problems.

Don't have food in your tent. Use a bear bag or a canister. Clean up your campsite. Not for your sake, but for the bears.