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View Full Version : Shelter Gardens- Anybody like the idea?



Gambit McCrae
04-25-2014, 09:36
I think it would be awesome for there to be shelter produce! not a big spot but a few tomato plants, cucumber etc at permitting shelters and witha very little amount of effort from each hiker it could be maintained just about every day. a fresh cucumber or tomato would be a delight on the trail and the whole concept could give people a sense of teamwork or connection.

Hot Flash
04-25-2014, 09:40
Wouldn't work for a lot of reasons. For instance, how would you keep wildlife from eating the plants?

Old Hiker
04-25-2014, 09:46
+1 Hot Flash. I have enough problems in my back yard, trying to keep mine alive.

Plus, I can't remember too many shelters with enough sunshine (6-8 hours+ per day) to have the plants thrive.

Nice idea , though.

Sailing_Faith
04-25-2014, 09:48
Still a cool thought...

It is a little like the practice of gathering firewood to leave at the fire pit for the next guy...

I like it. :)

rafe
04-25-2014, 09:52
OP's idea actually touches on Benton MacKaye's original concept for the AT.

FarmerChef
04-25-2014, 09:58
I've been at a shelter that actually had flowers in baskets and they were beautiful. I think that veggies really wouldn't work for the reasons listed above and a bunch of others. But what about planting herbs? They wouldn't be a temptation to animals, require less maintenance and some can thrive in dim light. Plus a little goes a long way so more hikers could benefit.

The biggest kicker here is that many hikers are probably not green thumbs and could overwater/overpick or otherwise kill the plants. Specific instructions would have to be left about when to/not to harvest and how to care for the plants. Overall, I like the idea.

Slo-go'en
04-25-2014, 10:21
I've been at a shelter that actually had flowers in baskets and they were beautiful.

The Clarendon shelter in Vermont comes to mind. I seem to remember one or two others with flowers. The other problem with a veggie garden is only a lucky few at the end of the season would be able to pick the fruits of the labor as it were.

Deadeye
04-25-2014, 10:24
the flip side of the "most plants wouldn't survive" coin is that you might plant something that winds up being invasive or otherwise detrimental to the local flora/fauna

Old Hiker
04-25-2014, 10:25
[QUOTE=FarmerChef;1873215].............................But what about planting herbs? They wouldn't be a temptation to animals, require less maintenance and some can thrive in dim light. Plus a little goes a long way so more hikers could benefit.

................................................ Specific instructions would have to be left about when to/not to harvest and how to care for the plants. ...............................QUOTE]

Herbs wouldn't be too bad, but I'm wondering if they would become an invasive species. I'm thinking of all the problems I had with mint in my yard in VA. I have it safely contained in a pot now so it can't spread. It would be nice to grab a leaf or two of basil or thyme to share with other hikers while making meals.

Specific instructions ???? We all know how well THAT works. I've seen people who can't/won't work the privy with dry leaves in a bucket beside them, let alone with an EMPTY bucket.

Feral Bill
04-25-2014, 11:05
Oregano I planted at my cabin has run amok. Best to be careful.

Don H
04-25-2014, 11:11
Several tomato plants at a shelter could easily be protected by chicken wire.

Quarry Gap has hanging flower baskets, they could just as easily be hanging tomato plants.

I've picked apples from trees along the AT and of course plenty of blueberries up north.

MDSection12
04-25-2014, 11:13
the flip side of the "most plants wouldn't survive" coin is that you might plant something that winds up being invasive or otherwise detrimental to the local flora/fauna
+1

The idea that any plant that is pretty or useful is 'natural' and therefore acceptable to plant anywhere has gone wrong many times before. I think a garden of native plants would be cool, but isn't that just called a forest? Best we leave that to mother nature, in my opinion. She does a fine job, if we'd just let her be. :)

martinb
04-25-2014, 11:15
Ok, garden is out but what about a solar-powered fridge with beer?

Gambit McCrae
04-25-2014, 11:22
+1 for solarbeerfridge!!

Feral Bill
04-25-2014, 12:04
Ok, garden is out but what about a solar-powered fridge with beer?
Combine the ideas. A garden with barley and hops plus the brewing and beer storage. A brewhut.

perdidochas
04-25-2014, 12:31
I think it would be awesome for there to be shelter produce! not a big spot but a few tomato plants, cucumber etc at permitting shelters and witha very little amount of effort from each hiker it could be maintained just about every day. a fresh cucumber or tomato would be a delight on the trail and the whole concept could give people a sense of teamwork or connection.


You want to give the bears, deer, raccoons, etc. more reason to like shelters?

tagg
04-25-2014, 12:34
But what about planting herbs? They wouldn't be a temptation to animals, require less maintenance and some can thrive in dim light. Plus a little goes a long way so more hikers could benefit.

The biggest kicker here is that many hikers are probably not green thumbs and could overwater/overpick or otherwise kill the plants. Specific instructions would have to be left about when to/not to harvest and how to care for the plants. Overall, I like the idea.


I saw this basket of herbs hanging at spring mountain shelter a couple of years ago. It had instructions for care written on it, just like you referenced. There were four or five small plants growing in it at the time.

http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/2/3/5/3/6/4.018_spring_mtn_shelter_3_thumb.jpg

Gambit McCrae
04-25-2014, 12:59
I saw this basket of herbs hanging at spring mountain shelter a couple of years ago. It had instructions for care written on it, just like you referenced. There were four or five small plants growing in it at the time.

http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/2/3/5/3/6/4.018_spring_mtn_shelter_3_thumb.jpg

Awesome! Unique act of kindness

Hot Flash
04-25-2014, 13:24
But what about planting herbs? They wouldn't be a temptation to animals, require less maintenance and some can thrive in dim light.
.

Oh yes they certainly are a temptation to animals.

Pedaling Fool
04-25-2014, 14:04
I like the idea, but it wouldn't work for many of the reasons (and more) already listed. I doubt you'd really have an issue with invasive plants, especially things like tomatoes and such, since they're pretty helpless in nature. Although, maybe there's an exception, but don't think it would be to bad WRT speading invasive plants.

And I do wonder if it would be more disruptive in areas with old growth forests, such as GSMNP than in other areas that have not yet regained old growth status.

It's always an interesting thought of introducing life in an area...

Pedaling Fool
04-25-2014, 14:46
BTW, if you really want gardens I would say tear up your grass and make a front and backyard garden/wildlife refuge http://eartheasy.com/play_bkyd_wildhab.htm

Forget the shelters, you're only there for a night; look at your yard and see how you can grow stuff other than grass, which is just a desert-like environment for many life forms. Creating habitat is one of the easiest things you can do...just let the weeds grow and mulch over much of your grass using simply leaves.

It looks better, less work (I watch my neighbors mow their lawns at least once per week) and attracts tons of wildlife. The only thing I water are little seedlings, like tomatoes, peppers, but once they are established in my spongy soil (which use to be sandy) and full of life; I never have to use fertilizer. Never ever water anything else -- my dirty water from washing dishes is more than enough to water my seedlings.

Gambit McCrae
04-25-2014, 15:02
Thanks for the idea of starting a garden...although the point of this thread was to capture Bentons original purpose of bringing people together by taking them out of their element. not about the garden....only one person got the point...lol but lots have positive feedback!!! lol

BTW, if you really want gardens I would say tear up your grass and make a front and backyard garden/wildlife refuge http://eartheasy.com/play_bkyd_wildhab.htm

Forget the shelters, you're only there for a night; look at your yard and see how you can grow stuff other than grass, which is just a desert-like environment for many life forms. Creating habitat is one of the easiest things you can do...just let the weeds grow and mulch over much of your grass using simply leaves.

It looks better, less work (I watch my neighbors mow their lawns at least once per week) and attracts tons of wildlife. The only thing I water are little seedlings, like tomatoes, peppers, but once they are established in my spongy soil (which use to be sandy) and full of life; I never have to use fertilizer. Never ever water anything else -- my dirty water from washing dishes is more than enough to water my seedlings.

Pedaling Fool
04-25-2014, 18:11
Thanks for the idea of starting a garden...although the point of this thread was to capture Bentons original purpose of bringing people together by taking them out of their element. not about the garden....only one person got the point...lol but lots have positive feedback!!! lol
No, I very much got the point, just didn't invoke Benton's name, nor did I focus on it. Just wasn't my main point of why it would not work, but that is another reason, because communal living fails, especially on the trail; I'd rather focus on nature and things to enhance it, than some silly human construct.


Just so happens I did recently entertain this original idea another post:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?103341-sociopaths&p=1872035&viewfull=1#post1872035

Copied Below:

Communal living never works. That is why the original intent of the AT is far from reality. That is also why hippies can not live together in nature :) http://sectionhiker.com/benton-macka...n-trail-essay/ (http://sectionhiker.com/benton-mackayes-appalachian-trail-essay/)


Excerpt:

3. Community Groups

These would grow naturally out of the shelter camps and inns. Each would consist of a little community on or near the trail (perhaps on a neighboring lake) where people could live in private domiciles. Such a community might occupy a substantial area — perhaps a hundred acres or more. This should be bought and owned as a part of the project. No separate lots should be sold therefrom. Each camp should be a self-owning community and not a real-estate venture. The use of the separate domiciles, like all other features of the project, should be available without profit.

These community camps should be carefully planned in advance. They should not be allowed to become too populous and thereby defat the very purpose for which they are created. Greater numbers should be accommodated by more communities, not larger ones. There is room, without crowding, in the Appalachian region for a very large camping population. The location of these community camps would form a main part of the regional planning and architecture.

These communities would be used for various kinds of non- industrial activity. They might eventually be organized for special purposes — for recreation, for recuperation and for study. Summer schools or seasonal field courses could be established and scientific travel courses organized and accommodated in the different communities along the trail. The community camp should become something more thana mere “playground”: it should stimulate every line of outdoor non-industrial endeavor.

4. Food and Farm Camps

These might not be organized at first. They would come as a later development. The farm camp is the natural supplement of the community camp.

Here is the same spirit of cooperation and well ordered action the food and crops consumed in the outdoor living would as far as practically be sown and harvested.

Food and farm camps could be established as special communities in adjoining valleys. Or they might be combined with the community camps with the inclusion of surrounding farm lands. Their development could provide tangible opportunity for working out by actual experiment a fundamental matter in the problem of living. It would provide one definite avenue of experiment in getting “back to the land.” It would provide an opportunity for those anxious to settle down in the country: it would open up a possible source for new, and needed, employment. Communities of this type ar illustrated by the Hudson Guild Farm in New Jersey.

Fuelwood, logs, and lumber are other basic needs of the camps and communities along the trail. These also might be grown and forested as part of the camp activity, rather than bought in the lumber market. The nucleus of such an enterprise has already been started at Camp Tamiment, Pennsylvania, on a lake not far from the route of the proposed Appalachian trail. The camp has been established by a labor group in New York City.

They have erected a sawmill on their tract of 2000 acres and have built the bungalows of their community from their own timber.

Farm camps might ultimately be supplemented by permanent forest camps through the acquisition (or lease) of wood and timber tracts. These of course should be handled under a system of forestry so as to have a continuously growing crop of material. The object sought might be accomplished through long term timber sale contracts with the Federal Government on some of the Appalachian National Forests. Here would be another opportunity for permanent, steady, healthy employment in the open.

Venchka
04-25-2014, 20:36
the flip side of the "most plants wouldn't survive" coin is that you might plant something that winds up being invasive or otherwise detrimental to the local flora/fauna

Right on. Alien plants are obscene. Kudzu and water hyacinth are just 2 that bring havoc wherever they grow.
Fresh cucumbers make me blow groceries.
Local wildflowers might be ok. Or not leaving trash behind. Firewood in the cooler seasons is a nice touch.
Leave a shelter nicer than you found it.

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.

MuddyWaters
04-25-2014, 20:49
Id be excited if people would just pack out their trash, and not write on the shelter.

BillyGr
04-27-2014, 21:19
Maybe if there were people who lived near where the trail was accessible near a shelter, they could set up some kind of small produce garden or "stand" (kind of like those help yourself drop your money in the box ones you see alongside roads many places) near to the trail.

Not just a "magic" type thing, but a known point where supplies were available without having to go far off the trail.

That way, hikers could grab a couple things for that night's dinner or the next morning without having to carry it too far (for example if you were crossing a small road a mile or so from the shelter - I can think of at least a few places like that just in the parts of MA/CT/NY I am sort of familiar with.

Pedaling Fool
05-06-2014, 13:55
My two blueberry bushes. I can't keep the birds away from them, can you imagine if this were on the trail :D

I don't do anything to the soil, other than mulch heavily, compost in place and provide habitat for numerous organisms.

All the surrounding "weeds" are what attracts pollinators and other insects, such as ladybugs... I forget the breed of the plants, will have to look that up.

They seem to do better every year. Now, if I can only get at the blueberries before them damn birds...at least I don't have to worry about the bears:D

http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m484/76gunner/Blueberry%20Bushes/004_zps821b2b8c.jpg (http://s1128.photobucket.com/user/76gunner/media/Blueberry%20Bushes/004_zps821b2b8c.jpg.html)

http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m484/76gunner/Blueberry%20Bushes/002_zpsf1fb70d7.jpg (http://s1128.photobucket.com/user/76gunner/media/Blueberry%20Bushes/002_zpsf1fb70d7.jpg.html)

http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m484/76gunner/Blueberry%20Bushes/014_zps6244328f.jpg (http://s1128.photobucket.com/user/76gunner/media/Blueberry%20Bushes/014_zps6244328f.jpg.html)


This one I thought died over last winter, lost all its foliage

http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m484/76gunner/Blueberry%20Bushes/007_zps360f80de.jpg (http://s1128.photobucket.com/user/76gunner/media/Blueberry%20Bushes/007_zps360f80de.jpg.html)

http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m484/76gunner/Blueberry%20Bushes/007_zps360f80de.jpg (http://s1128.photobucket.com/user/76gunner/media/Blueberry%20Bushes/007_zps360f80de.jpg.html)

flemdawg1
05-06-2014, 14:02
Peach (Georgia especially), apple, blueberries, blackberries, raspberries, ramps would all do well in the mountains. Shouldn't be any shortage of fertilizer from the privy either. (Wouldn't reccomend fertilizing the ramps with privy compost though.) Sun and water would be the primary limiters.