View Full Version : 3 day routes with the kids
ATL Backpacker
04-25-2014, 20:34
Aiming to take my 2 kids on a 2-3 night backpacking trip in the Smokies in early summer. 4-6 miles per day, depending on terrain. They’ve done those distances before in the Smokies.
Ideally we’d do a 3 night but haven’t had luck finding any good routes with those mileages. All of the below are 2 nights. Besides the logistical issue of 2 options requiring a shuttle, any thoughts on these routes? Or suggestions for other routes?
Gregory Bald loop – starting from Parson’s Branch Rd.
Day 1 – 4 miles to cs 13 via Gregory Bald trail
Day 2 - ~4 miles to cs 12 via Gregory Bald/Gregory Ridge trails
Day 3 - ~2 miles cont’d down Gregory Ridge trail, then ~3 mile road walk on Parsons back to the car (The road walk seems a bummer, especially with kids)
Clingman’s road to Deep Creek parking lot (shuttle)
Day 1 – 5.3 miles on Fork Ridge trail to 53
Day 2 – 4.8 miles on Deep Creek trail to 58 or 59
Day 3 - ~ 5 miles to Deep Creek parking lot
Newfound Gap rd to Deep Creek (shuttle)
Day 1 – ~5 miles on Thomas Divide to 52
Day 2 – ~ 4.7 miles on Thomas Divide to Deep Plow Gap to 51
Day 3 - ~ 5.6 miles to Deep Creek parking lot
scrabbler
04-25-2014, 21:44
I think you should add elevation changes to your stats. Im not sure of a good resource to calculate that, but it might make that decision easier. Even just looking at a topo map you should be able to rank them for elevation change over the route.
HooKooDooKu
04-28-2014, 12:22
If you decide to do Gregory Bald, I would suggest you do it backwards.
1. Start with the more boring stuff (i.e. hiking Parson's Branch 1st, saving Gregory Bald for the last day)
2. Parson't Branch is actually a nice casual hike when hiking down hill (I've done it both ways).
3. You will be facing any on coming traffic on Parson's Branch rather than any chance of it sneaking up on you (unlikely with all the gravel).
There are two other Gregory Bald options both starting at Twenty Mile Ranger Station:
1. Twentymile to Long Hungry Ridge to #92... Long Hungry Ridge to Gregory Bald to #13... Wolf Ridge back to Twentymile
2. Twentymile to AT, hang a right to go to Shuckstack fire tower, U-turn to #113... AT to Doe Knob (Gregory Bald) to #13... Wolf Ridge back to Twentymile
If you really like the idea of fire towers, the one on Mount Sterling has held up better than Shuckstack:
From Big Creek Campground, travel Big Creek to #37... Climb Swallow Fork Trail to Mt Sterling Ridge Trail to #38... Baxter Creek Tr back to Big Creek Campground
(NOTE: The water source for #38 is something like 3/4 mile DOWN Baxter Creek... so I would instead check out a detailed map for the last creek crossing climbing Swallow Fork Trail and haul all the water you need up to #38)
If Cosby is an area you would like to check out, you can make a two night loop with Cosby to #4... up Maddron Bald to #29... and down Snake Den Ridge back to Cosby. Maddron Bald has some great views above #29.
If you want to add the challenge of unbridged water crossings and staying at a shelter, start at Clingman's dome and hike down Forney Creek to #70... hike up Jonas Creek/Welch Ridge to Silers Bald Shelter... AT back to Clingman's. This loop involves about 9 unbridged water crossings (5 on Forney Creek, 4 on Jonas Creek). All will involve water that will be at least knee deep and simply might be too dangerous with children at high water level. At normal water levels, the difficulty of these water crossing is all the rocks. You will have to plan on walking each child across the water holding their hand because they are likely going to slip on some rocks and get a little wet because they are unaccustom to water crossings. In times of high water levels, these crossings can be hazardous. I've done it with a 10yo, but it took much care, and in some cases hiking up/down stream a short ways to find a safe spot to cross. But it need to be done with an attitude that you might encounter a creek crossing you judge to simply be too dangerous and back-track up Forney Creek to #69 or #68 rather than continue the loop. However, if you find you can make it safely down Forney Creek, you should have no problem going up Jonas Creek.
A long but relatively simple hike is to park at the trailhead to Gregory Ridge and make a loop with Parson's Branch, Hannah Mtn, and Forge Creek Rd. Once you get on Hannah Mtn, it is a level to simple downhill hike:
1. Parsons Branch Rd to Hannah Mtn to #14... Hannah Mtn to Rabbit Creek to #15... Rabbit Creek to Cades Cove to Forge Creek Rd.
(Rabbit Creek has unbridged water crossings at each end that are NOT rock-hoppable... but with water shoes, a simple water crossing even with kids).
2. Parsons Branch Rd to Hannah Mtn to #14... Hannah Mtn to Abrams Falls Tr to #17... Abrams Falls to Cades Cove to Forge Creek Rd.
(There is a deep water crossing at the junction of Hannah Mtn and Abrams Falls... I've been able to make the crossing in November with a 7yo but may be too much if water levels are high).
All of these loops I've been able to do in one form or another with one or both my boys while they were in the 7yo to 10yo range.
full conditions
04-28-2014, 13:11
The Fork Ridge Trail has some of the most impressive stands of huge, old growth red spruce I've seen anywhere - just spectacular. From where the fork ridge trail joins the deep creek trail down to campsite 55 is foot travel only and is one of the most charming stream-side trails in the park.
full conditions,
I will have to try Fork Ridge again sometime. I hiked it once before on the last long day of a long hiking trip. I guess my head was down to the ground daydreaming about meat and beer and I missed the red spruce. Shame on me.
full conditions
04-28-2014, 15:52
full conditions,
I will have to try Fork Ridge again sometime. I hiked it once before on the last long day of a long hiking trip. I guess my head was down to the ground daydreaming about meat and beer and I missed the red spruce. Shame on me.
Worth consideration is the fact that the fork ridge trail is a fairly steep downhill - might be a tough one for the kids (or you depending on your knees). Best of luck with your hike.
HooKooDooKu
04-28-2014, 17:17
Worth consideration is the fact that the fork ridge trail is a fairly steep downhill - might be a tough one for the kids...
I've found that steepness hasn't been an issue with the kids...
My oldest has done all the trails to Mt. LeConte, down Forney Ridge, up and down Forney Creek, up Jonas Creek, up Gregory Ridge and up Crooked Arm. Both boys have gone up Maddron Bald, up Long Hungary Ridge, down Snake Den, down Baxter, down Wolf Ridge, and up Newton Bald. They have also gone down South Kaibab and up Bright Angle in Grand Canyon.
I guess basically, if my overweight @$$ can handle it, their skinny little legs have been able to handle it. The only issues I've run into is that at a younger age, they will tend to hike slower... like averaging 1.5mph when I would normally do 2+mph on down-hills and level terrain (they tend to keep up or stay ahead of me on up-hills).
That is awesome HooKooDooKu. My boys (11 & 8) suffer from a lack of motivation, not a lack of ability. "I'm tired, I'm bored, my feet hurt, I can't take another step, etc...." Then I tell them there is a cool rock formation, or a creek crossing, or a view, or a waterfall just ahead on the trail... and suddenly they are running up the hill. Living in Ohio, I don't have much opportunity to test their mettle on trails in the Smokies very often... but I am planning on taking them on a backpacking trip down there maybe next year.
HooKooDooKu
04-29-2014, 10:51
Living in Ohio, I don't have much opportunity to test their mettle on trails in the Smokies very often... but I am planning on taking them on a backpacking trip down there maybe next year.
Next YEAR!!! What's wrong with next month? Don't you have a 3 day weekend over Memorial Day?
Columbus, OH is only 6 hours from Gatlinburg. I live 5 hours from Gatlinburg. You're not much farther.
My boys (11 & 7, almost 12 & 8) have been hiking to LeConte Lodge since they were 6, and back packing with me since they were 7. They haven't done all the trails I've listed because we live close to GSMNP but because we go a couple of times a year (sometimes with only one, sometimes with both). I usually get in one or two trips while they are out for the summer, and I try to work in a few more trips when they are out of school (Columbus Day, Veteran's Day, Labor Day, etc).
However, I guess I'm pretty lucky. The boys seem reasonably motivated. I don't hear much of the "I'm tired, I'm bored, my feet hurt". But I do find that certain things help motivate them a little better. Sometimes it is as simply as "here, you hold the GPS (kids like electronics) and see if you can average 2mph. My biggest issue (when I have both boys together) is keeping them from doing "stupid stuff" during those boring times when there isn't much to do (like trying to balance on a wet log when we're 10 miles from a trail head... because I'm NOT hauling your @## out of here when you fall and break a leg... or more realistically, sprain an ankle. That's perhaps my biggest challenge is making them understand that while we're not exactly "in danger" when we're hiking in the woods... but how being in a remote location puts more responsibility on you to keep yourself safe.
HooKooDooKu
04-29-2014, 10:57
ATL Backpacker,
Let me know if you decide to go with a Gregory Bald loop so I can tell you about Moore Spring... it's a much better water supply that the spring located near #13.
Next YEAR!!! What's wrong with next month? Don't you have a 3 day weekend over Memorial Day?
No, I have the Indy 500 over Memorial Day. Gotta keep those traditions alive.
The boys have been hiking with me in the smokies on several occasions. They also have been backpacking with me locally (Indiana and Ohio) on several occasions. Lets just say that I am not very interested in taking them this year due to the 'feedback' I have received from them on previous excursions.
I have been working them back up to backpacking by local day hikes and outdoor activities. Even when I have kept the mileage low on past BP excursions, it was not a pleasant experience for any of us.
We shall see.
I hope my boys will grow to love the outdoors. But I am not going to build that love in them by forcing them to do things they hate. Instead of dragging them along, I am trying a different strategy by exposing them to short day hikes in cool places, short canoe trips, morning fishing trips, car camping, etc.... I'm hoping to take them on a BP trip locally this summer, but I am not planning on taking them down to the smokies for it. Vacation days are spoken for this year.
If I were taking my boys down to the smokies for a bp trip, I would try to work in a night at campsite 9 off of Anthony Creek Trail. I love the huge rocks in the creek. Might be a good place to dip a tenkara rod. Would be a great place to play in the creek.
ATL Backpacker
04-29-2014, 15:32
Thanks all for the insights. We are going to do the Gregory Bald (short) loop in the direction HooKooDooKu suggested. A little further drive but I can avoid the shuttle requirement plus it's an area of the park I have not hiked before. Will file away Maddron Bald and Deep Creek area for the next trip.
HKDK - yes please details on the Moore Spring. As well as any other notable sights along Gregory Ridge/Gregory Bald trails.
HooKooDooKu
04-29-2014, 17:40
HKDK - yes please details on the Moore Spring. As well as any other notable sights along Gregory Ridge/Gregory Bald trails.
The intersection of Gregory Ridge and Gregory Bald (a.k.a. Rich Gap) has an extra unnamed trail simply marked by a sign "No Horses".
NOTE: Don't be confused with Long Hungary Ridge Trail. The intersection of Long Hungary Ridge is about 0.1 miles down Gregory Bald Trail (away from Gregory Bald) from the intersection with Gregory Ridge.
If you follow this unnamed trail for about 0.5 miles, it comes to a small clearing where you will find Moore Spring. At the start of the clearing is a trail to the right that goes strait up the mountain. It will take you back to Gregory Bald trail without requiring you to back-track to Rich Gap.
NOTE: If you have any problems finding this 2nd trail away from Moore Spring, simply go off-trail strait up the hill... you'll quickly run into Gregory Bald Trail.
One of the problems with Campsite #13 is that the water source for it is about 0.25 miles down Gregory Bald trail from the campsite. It's also just a small trickle from a minor drainage.
So one of the things I like to do is hike to Moore Spring, eat lunch, then collect all the water I'm going to need for Campsite #13.
The other thing I like to do (since I've eaten lunch at Moore Spring) is to setup camp at #13... then for dinner, hike my stove and food back up to the bald to cook and eat dinner. In the afternoons, the bald can get pretty crowed... but at dinner time, most day-hikers have already started back down the mountain. I've had times where I've been able to enjoy dinner at Gregory Bald all to myself.
The only thing "wrong" with this plan is that it requires you to drive Parson's Branch Road. Since the last time I drove it (and I was able to drive it with a Honda Accord), the National Park Service has posted a new sign recommending that only 4x4 (4 wheel drive) vehicles travel this road. I think its because there are several ruts along the road, along with a few short steep sections. So if you don't have a 4x4, you'll want to make sure you have a little but of a running start for these hills, dodge the ruts, and don't stop so that you won't have a problem starting on a hill. Like I said, I've been able to travel Parson's with a Honda Accord... but since that last time this new sign has been added... perhaps just the park service being overly cautious.
If you want to skip driving Parson's Branch Road, you can either do Gregory Bald from Twenty Mile Ranger Station... or you can simply park at the Gregory Ridge Trail Head, and hike all the way from Campsite #13 down Gregory Bald and Parson's Branch Road back to your car. It's only 7 miles, and basically down hill the whole way. Of course that plan means that you either spend only one night on the trail... or your 1st day hike is only 2 miles to reach Campsite #12.
ATL Backpacker
05-28-2014, 14:52
If you decide to do Gregory Bald, I would suggest you do it backwards.
1. Start with the more boring stuff (i.e. hiking Parson's Branch 1st, saving Gregory Bald for the last day)
2. Parson't Branch is actually a nice casual hike when hiking down hill (I've done it both ways).
3. You will be facing any on coming traffic on Parson's Branch rather than any chance of it sneaking up on you (unlikely with all the gravel).
We ended up doing the Parson's Branch Rd, Gregory Ridge, Gregory Bald, then back down to Parson's Branch, loop.
Stayed at cs #12 the first night and #13 the 2nd. For a low mileage trip, I have to say it was one of the most enjoyable trips I've been on. The hike up Gregory Ridge was a bit of a test for the kids but gave them a great sense of accomplishment upon reaching Gregory Bald. Saw an amazing sunset there with not another soul around. Both campsites were fantastic and even the road walk down Parson's was nice. Would highly recommend for anyone looking to take kids or if you just like low mileage days with lots of campsite time.
HKDK - thanks for the clockwise-route direction advice. Going downhill on day 3 instead of uphill made all the difference for the kids. Also, interestingly enough we shared cs 13 with some very nice folks from Birmingham.
did ya stop by moore spring as well?
glad y'all enjoyed the trip.....
HooKooDooKu
05-28-2014, 15:48
For a low mileage trip, I have to say it was one of the most enjoyable trips I've been on. The hike up Gregory Ridge was a bit of a test for the kids but gave them a great sense of accomplishment upon reaching Gregory Bald.
I am happy to hear my advice turned out so well.
What I remember most about Gregory Bald was how amazed my then 6yo was with the view.
One of the nice things about staying at #12 the 1st night is that you don't have to do the FULL climb to Gregory Bald in one day (and its only about 4 miles from #12 to #13).
Our Memorial Weekend hike was a little bit more ambitious (but then my boys have been hiking the Smokies for 2 & 6 years). We parked at Clingman's Dome and hiked down Forney Ridge and Springhouse Branch to stay at #64. The next day was the full length of Springhouse Branch to Forney Creek and up to #69. The last was Forney Creek back up to the car, drop off the packs, and hike to Clingman's Dome.
What I don't understand is after hiking 25 miles with a cumulative elevation change of 6,000 feet, my 8yo still had the energy to practically run up the path to Clingman's Dome (I plotted along slowly myself).
Kids seem to have an "im interested in this" gear. My parents would take us to Turkey Run State Park in Indiana all the time when we were growing up. They would try to hike on the other trails in the park, but we would get bored and complain about how our feet hurt and generally make the trip miserable for them. But when they took us on trail 3 with its ladders and canyons and gorges and creek trails... they could hardly keep up. They stopped trying to take us on any of the other trails.
ATL Backpacker
05-29-2014, 12:17
did ya stop by moore spring as well?
glad y'all enjoyed the trip.....
We didn't make it to the spring. It started thundering just before we reached the intersection where the spring trail is. I wanted to get up and over Gregory to set up camp before the rain set in. (barely made it).
Thankfully the water source at 12 was flowing pretty good.
HooKooDooKu
05-29-2014, 16:08
We didn't make it to the spring. It started thundering just before we reached the intersection where the spring trail is. I wanted to get up and over Gregory to set up camp before the rain set in. (barely made it).
Thankfully the water source at 12 was flowing pretty good.
I assume you mean CS13 near Gregory Bald (CS12 is the one by the creek on the way up Gregory Ridge).
I've never had problems getting water from the CS13 water source... even during times of low water.
But one of the great things about Moore Spring (in addition to it simply being a better water source), is that you don't have to hike so far out of the way to obtain water.
The water source for CS13 is about 0.2 miles down hill (not quite a 100' elevation change). That's 0.4 miles round trip.
Moore Spring, by contrast, only adds a total of an additional 0.1 mile to your hike and adds nothing in elevation change.
But I understand the desire to get camp setup before it rains.
However, something to keep in mind... there is a worker camp located just past Moore Spring. The last time I was there, there was a very large tarp setup at the camp... so it's a great place to get out of the rain for a little while.
the reasons i dont like the water source near CS 13 (at least a few years ago) was that it looked like a hog had wallered in it along with it being a place for horses to water up........meaning there was also horse poop nearby......
yeah.....that worker camp just past the spring has been there for years now....
moore spring is one of the highest, best flowing spring in the park..........just thinking about it gets me thirsty for it........
HooKooDooKu
05-29-2014, 18:16
the reasons i dont like the water source near CS 13 (at least a few years ago) was that it looked like a hog had wallered in it along with it being a place for horses to water up........meaning there was also horse poop nearby......
That's definitely always been the case if you look for water on the downhill (left) side of the trail.
But if you look uphill (right), the hillside has always looks very clean to me. In the worst case, I've had to dig out a small depression in the flow to create a small enough pool for my old Sweetwater pump filter to get the water.
I'm currently using the Sawyer Mini. It's a great filter... until you have to collect water from off the ground where there isn't already some sort of nature water fall to fill your dirty water bag.
But with that old Sweetwater (with a slit-stopper pre-filter), all I ever needed was ANY flow of water.
I recall one loop hike to Gregory Bald where we spent the 1st night at CS113. The piped spring was bone dry. But if you followed the drainage down hill for about 100', you could find enough of a flow to get you some water.
Even on that trip, I had no problem obtaining water at CS13 (I didn't know about Moore Spring yet... did see the trail that leads to Moore Spring and even followed it for a while, not knowing until later that I turned around about 100' short of "discovering" Moore Spring).