View Full Version : New to WhiteBlaze - Planning section hike from Springer to Clingmans Dome
SouthernHiker
04-26-2014, 07:21
I'm new to the WhiteBlaze boards, and I'm starting to plan my first section hike with my wife.
We are planning to take the month of June to hike from Amicalola -Springer to Clingman's Dome/Newfound Gap.
This will be our first long distance hiking, and we're both in less than great hiking shape, but plan to do a lot of road miles with full packs and a couple of weekend mountain hikes between now and June to start preparing.
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I've lived in Georgia most of my life, and I know the heat in June, so other than that, are there any concerns I should have about hiking this time of year, other than the obvious (dehydration, bear bagging)?
We are planning to start nice and slow for the first couple of weeks with nothing over 8 miles/day. Right now, my "loose plan", though, would have a few 11-12 mile days in the Nantahala section. Is this reasonable after about 3 weeks on the trail? I'm struggling with knowing our possible mileage capabilities a few weeks in.
Any other advice is also very welcome. I look forward to hearing from the experienced hikers, particular any that started out in less than ideal shape.
Bags4266
04-26-2014, 07:31
Well it's hard to say without knowing your physical shape. Best advice is to keep your pack as light as you could. Use hiking poles. Also the average for some people is 2 mph so ten miles is only 5 hours of your day. That's a lot of down time in camp. Unless you are over weight, have a health problem or way out of shape ten miles a day should be no problem, Unless your hiking the whites.
General recommendations: keep you pack weights down. Take some practice hikes, overnighters. Figure out how your gear works and what you truly need and what you don't need. It's been ages since I hiked that part of trail but I know I was carrying way too much. Most of us were. Average pack weights have dropped 20 lbs. since then, maybe more.
You say you're inexperienced, and that's OK, but you can learn from this forum, or from any of a million good books, or from practical experience. It shouldn't be hard to get to a base weight of 20-25 lbs., even for a beginner. Less is more. You still need to add 5-10 lbs. on top of that for food and water.
It's not a particularly easy hunk of trail. It's not Maine, but it's not Maryland either.
SouthernHiker
04-26-2014, 07:56
I'm working diligently to keep our pack weight down. I haven't started getting food yet, and I don't plan to do any mail drops. I figure with 30+ days to do that distance, we can enjoy the neros and zeroes in towns along the way, and resupply in them.
It's good to hear a base of 2mph might be something to try and calculate. I am overweight, though not grossly, so I will be carrying around some extra poundage in that area. Part of this trip is to help get us back into shape. I had heard some suggestions of 1mph, which seemed slow, even with a full pack. (Obviously elevations would sometimes put us at that). My single long hiking experience was a 10 mile day in, 10 mile day out on Eagle something trail near the A.T. at the beginning of Fontana Dam.
I am currently using the AT Companion, the Georgia-NC guide and maps, as well as a book on "the nitty gritty" details of planning a thru-hike.
A thru-hike has been one of my dreams since I was a little kid, and since the whole 6 months off thing would be a bit difficult at this stage in life. The thinking is this would give us a "section" and tell us how we'd feel doing it for 5 more months or in sections.
Well it's hard to say without knowing your physical shape. Best advice is to keep your pack as light as you could. Use hiking poles. Also the average for some people is 2 mph so ten miles is only 5 hours of your day. That's a lot of down time in camp. Unless you are over weight, have a health problem or way out of shape ten miles a day should be no problem, Unless your hiking the whites.
For some of us, 2 mph is way optimistic, except in the most ideal conditions. I'm guessing most beginning northbounders average 10-12 miles per day for the first week or two. Mapman would have the statistics. The fittest hikers at the front of the wave may be doing 20 miles/day. That's for real, but it's the exception.
It's good to hear a base of 2mph might be something to try and calculate. I am overweight, though not grossly, so I will be carrying around some extra poundage in that area. Part of this trip is to help get us back into shape. I had heard some suggestions of 1mph, which seemed slow, even with a full pack. (Obviously elevations would sometimes put us at that). My single long hiking experience was a 10 mile day in, 10 mile day out on Eagle something trail near the A.T. at the beginning of Fontana Dam.
10 miles per day is a good estimate. I am taking my wife and two young ladies (complete newbs) on a section at the end of May. I am figuring on 10miles per day. It sounds like a little but it took me awhile on my AT hike to get to 10 mpd. I was in good (not great) shape when I started. I have told others who are first hitting the AT this before but my 15-18 mpd that I could do locally dropped quickly to 10. The elevation changes are hard to simulate and train for unless you are fortunate enough to live in the mountains. A 10 mile plan allows for ample breaks, a long lunch plus time to enjoy camp in the AM and PM, which is something I like, especially when doing a section hike. If you find that you want to do more, it's easy enough to ramp up. It's worse to do less than your plan as it can cause issues with your food supply.
If this is your first hike, enjoy it. I spend a few weeks each year on the southern AT well behind the thru hiker bubble. I will usually see a couple of people out there who weren't prepared in any sense of the word. For these folks, their first experience on the AT will usually be their last as well.On my sections I always just start with 10's and by the second week I have my trail legs back and can ramp up quickly from there. (although I usually won't do more than 20 because of enjoying the camping experience in the morning and evenings). ymmv.
Instead of trying to stick to a schedule/or destination... just enjoy every step you take and enjoy the trip :)
SouthernHiker
04-26-2014, 08:33
We are all too happy to scrap any "plan" we come up with, but of course part of the fun of all of this for me is the prepping and planning .
With that said Using the guides, I've been trying to guesstimate days and mileages by getting from shelter to shelter. The vast majority of our days are 7-9 mies. There are just a few days where it oils like the shelters end up being either 3 miles apart or 12, and we'd opt or the 12 if we can do it. It's of those days would be during week 3??
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SouthernHiker
04-26-2014, 08:40
*most of those 11-12 mile days would be during the 3rd week and in the Nantahal section
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We are all too happy to scrap any "plan" we come up with, but of course part of the fun of all of this for me is the prepping and planning .
With that said Using the guides, I've been trying to guesstimate days and mileages by getting from shelter to shelter. The vast majority of our days are 7-9 mies. There are just a few days where it oils like the shelters end up being either 3 miles apart or 12, and we'd opt or the 12 if we can do it. It's of those days would be during week 3??
Another alternative is to not base your itinerary entirely on the shelters. Walk at your preferred pace. All you need for a campsite is flat ground and water. Water can be carried, if need be. If the next shelter is too far to walk, stock up on water and then you're free to camp wherever. Maps, guides, registers and experience will tell you where water is likely to be found (or not.)
A mistake most beginners make, including me when I was a beginner, is to overestimate how many miles per day they can do. Your plan to start around 8 miles per day, with some days later in the hike extending to 10 to 12 due to shelter spacing, seems like a very sensible plan to me. My only suggestion would be to stop at Fontana instead of taking on Great Smoky Mountains National Park on this trip. To hike in GSMNP you would need to reserve particular shelters for particular dates ahead of time (since you won't meet the Park's definition of a "thru-hiker"), and it is difficult to predict that and would prevent the kind of flexibility that would be useful on a first backpacking trip -- 163 miles from Springer to Fontana seems like plenty to attempt for a first trip like this.
In any case, have a great hike and welcome to Whiteblaze:welcome!
My family and I are section hikers, we do about two-three weeks a year. We generally plan on 8's unless there is a section without alot of elevatikn change. For those days we plan 10's. But we hike at our oun pace and stop to smell the roses sort of speak. Hike your own hike and keep it fun.
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I would say your 8-10 to begin with is about right. One thing you'll have on your side is plenty of daylight. Especially with you all just starting off, take plenty of breaks, with packs and shoes off, and enjoy the trail. GA isn't easy, but if you take your time, you'll be fine. I'd also have to agree with Map Man, making it up to Fontana would be a great goal, and place to stop! Keep your pack weight low, you won't need as much food as you think, drink plenty of water and enjoy!<br>
harmonjazzman
04-26-2014, 10:52
My gf and I were a bit overzealous planning our shelters for our last section in GSMNP. We met a park ranger along the way who said if we don't make it to our planned shelter and have to readjust, it's fine and that it happens to many hikers...so long as the shelters aren't full and if they are you tent close enough to the shelter.
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Meriadoc
04-26-2014, 11:02
All around good stuff! Good plan, good plan to be able to ditch the plan.
Here's my one piece of (long) advice: Muscles heal and develop relatively quickly, tendons relatively slowly. On a hike this long you may run into downhill knee issues. It won't stop your hike.
(1) it's generally an inflammation of the tendon and ibuprofen works. (2) patellar braces work fairly well. Different braces work on different parts of the knee so a different one may be needed. (3) knee trouble can be avoided altogether by strengthening the knee beforehand or after symptoms start. This works because what happens is the supporting muscles tire and the tendon takes the strain. Then the tendon becomes inflamed and downhill walking becomes painful.
That knowledge saved a number of hikes and lack of it ended at least one. I learned it on the trail from former thrus on my own thru.
SouthernHiker
04-26-2014, 12:39
One more question for the day...
Regarding the GSMNP. I have July open on my calendar. With the" remote possibility" that we get antsy and decided to go a little farther outside of the smokies .... Is there a reason I can't sign up/qualify as a thru hiker to give myself a little freedom?
Would anything happen if I then came off at Clingmans? I'm not trying to skirt anything, I'm just not sure how all of that permitting works in that section .
I'm really wanting to finish at Clingmans . The highest point just feels like a nice place to finish and I have someone who can give me a ride from there to Gburg???
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The Park defines a "thru-hiker" as someone who starts their hike at least 50 miles before the park and continues their hike to at least 50 miles beyond the park (for a NOBO that means at least to Allen Gap, a little north of Hot Springs). These "thru-hikers" are eligible to pay for a 20 dollar permit to hike through the park with more flexibilty about where they spend each night (though they still do fill out an estimated itinerary) just so long as they take no more than a week to get through the park. Harmonjazzman's experience suggests that maybe there is more flexibility toward non thru-hikers than their stated policy suggests, though maybe that depends on which park employee you run into? There is no problem ending near Clingman's Dome if you don't mind making shelter reservations ahead of time for the part of the AT you choose to hike -- see their web-site for particulars.
I'm sure the principle behind both the shelter reservation system and the thru-hiker permits is to keep the number of people on the AT going from shelter to shelter at a level they see as manageable.
SouthernHiker
04-26-2014, 17:56
Thanks map man !
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illabelle
04-27-2014, 06:31
If you are still going strong and can hike up from Fontana to Clingman's, I would definitely continue on thru the park. The northern half is a bunch of ridge-walking and then a long downhill - not difficult. If you've been lurking on WhiteBlaze a while, you may have noticed the frequency that the logistics of hiking thru GSMNP comes up. If you've already got them half done, just keep going. :)
SouthernHiker
04-27-2014, 22:04
If you are still going strong and can hike up from Fontana to Clingman's, I would definitely continue on thru the park. The northern half is a bunch of ridge-walking and then a long downhill - not difficult. If you've been lurking on WhiteBlaze a while, you may have noticed the frequency that the logistics of hiking thru GSMNP comes up. If you've already got them half done, just keep going. :)
I will keep that in mind Illabelle. I grew up about 3 hours from the Smokies and I've always loved hiking the shorter trails there. Who knows, if my ride home from Gatlinburg gets tied up, or if we end up moving faster, or if we're just feeling inspired, we may just keep moving for a little while longer.
slbirdnerd
04-28-2014, 13:52
Hi, SouthernHiker! I'll be on most of that section in early June. Maybe we'll bump into each other. Have a great hike! ~Rock Slide
SouthernHiker
04-28-2014, 17:37
Hi, SouthernHiker! I'll be on most of that section in early June. Maybe we'll bump into each other. Have a great hike! ~Rock Slide
Hopefully I'll see you there.
I'm working on my pack weight now. I posted it on the Gear forum but didn't get any feedback, so I'll try here too:
1. Coleman Exponent Delta , Coleman Exponent Wisdom
2. Marmot Trestles 30 His , Marmot Trestles 30 Hers
3. Tent - REI Half Dome, footprint and rain fly (I think that was its name)
4. REI 3/4 Air Pad , REI full length air pad
5. 2 L Water Platypus and drinking tube , 3L Water Platypus & tube
6. 32 oz. Nalgene , 32 oz. Nalgene
7. Sawyer 2L gravity filtration
8. 2 Dry fit short sleeve shirts , 2 dry fit short sleeve shirts, 1 long sleeve dryfit pullover
9. Coleman rain jacket , Coleman rain jacket
10. 2 pair wool socks & 2 synthetic running socks (each)
11. 1 pair Teva Sandals , 1 pair Chaco Sandals
12. 1 Camp Stove
13. One MSR IsoPro Fuel 8 oz
14. One Jet Power ISo Pro 16 oz
15. 1 set of Nesting cookpot & 2 bowls)
16. 2 Sporks
17. One 7 inch knife& sheath
18. 2 stuff sacks for food
19. 3 carabiners of varying sizes
20. (paracord) yet to be obtained, length??
21. (4 hiking poles) yet to be obtained
22. 2 toothbrush, paste,
23. 3 microrolls of biodegradable TP
23. pack of moleskin
24. one plastic digging trowel
25. one squeeze bottle bio liquid soap
26. 1 small tube sunscreen
27. benadryl
28. 2 headlamps, 2 extra battery sets
29. WP Camera
30. Phone & Charger
31. Trail Book and Maps
32. Two inflatable camp pillows
33. My boots (yet to be obtained), hers GoreTek lightweight
34. Food yet to be obtained, resupplies planned frequently
35. 2 dry fit, running style ball caps
36. Tweezers & Nail Clippers
37. Small tube of DEET
38. Bag will be treated with Sawyer bug treatment before departing
Questions:
1. Any input is welcome on additions/removals
2. Should we get a couple of micro camp towels?
3. As far as long sleeves go, should we consider anything other than a rain jacket for the Georgia lower North Carolina June?
4. Any recommendations on inexpensive lighter for stoves (standard cigarette lighter?)
5. Where does one carry their sleeping pads/ I have mine running vertically up the inside of my pack, but it seems really bulky
6. Wife wants to know about a non-smelling deodorant that would be "bear safe" to wear.
7. Per undergarments, I've read "commando" is recommended from a weight and cleanliness standpoint?
Hopefully I'll see you there.
Questions:
1. Any input is welcome on additions/removals
2. Should we get a couple of micro camp towels?
3. As far as long sleeves go, should we consider anything other than a rain jacket for the Georgia lower North Carolina June?
4. Any recommendations on inexpensive lighter for stoves (standard cigarette lighter?)
5. Where does one carry their sleeping pads/ I have mine running vertically up the inside of my pack, but it seems really bulky
6. Wife wants to know about a non-smelling deodorant that would be "bear safe" to wear.
7. Per undergarments, I've read "commando" is recommended from a weight and cleanliness standpoint?
for a first hike, a good list. I'd carry 50-75' of cord for bearbagging. get your boots asap and get them broken in. I'd throw some Neosporin, bandaids and ibuprofen into the first aid kit. Camp shoes (crocs) are a luxury but not required. A $.99 Bic will suffice for a lighter.Try a compression sack for the sleeping bag - will greatly reduce bulk of the thing. You may want a pack cover or line your pack with a trash bag. No to the deodorant - learn to embrace the stink. Commando works well. best wishes and have fun.
SouthernHiker
04-28-2014, 19:49
for a first hike, a good list. I'd carry 50-75' of cord for bearbagging. get your boots asap and get them broken in. I'd throw some Neosporin, bandaids and ibuprofen into the first aid kit. Camp shoes (crocs) are a luxury but not required. A $.99 Bic will suffice for a lighter.Try a compression sack for the sleeping bag - will greatly reduce bulk of the thing. You may want a pack cover or line your pack with a trash bag. No to the deodorant - learn to embrace the stink. Commando works well. best wishes and have fun.
:-? Thanks for the advice. I'll let my wife know she'll just have to "embrace the stink."...LOL! I don't know why, but deodorant seems to be her only hang up.
I accidentally left off the ibuprofen. I'll add bandaids and neosporin. Thanks for the reminder. My Marmot came with a compression bag that I will be using (I should have included that on the list)
Pack cover was another question I had. Does anyone have any recommendations on what route to take there? Buy one from a sport good store, or go the garbage bag route? Any other inexpensive options to keep it all dry?
Speaking of dry I've got a rain jacket, and was planning on leaving the rain pants at home since it will be summer?
I go for the bright orange silnylon pack cover that tucks into a little pouch, about the size of couple of packs of cigarettes. In threatening weather I keep it near the top of the pack. I can have it on or off the pack in a few seconds.