View Full Version : Lightest 0 bag out there?
I'm wondering if anybody has any experiences with a 0 bag, and which is the lightest?
I think I definately want to go with 'down', but have never had a down bag before so I'm pretty uneduated about the weight/warmth issue, assume that down is the warmest.... currently have a 30 degree Mtn. Hardware and would not want to be out on a 30 degree night with it, was cold some nights last summer in June in MD and am a pretty warm sleeper.
I'm not sure if its the lightest, but I'd be surprised if it were not. Check out the Western Mountaineering Antelope Super DL. You'll be shocked at the price, but no one makes a better back. It is rated to 5 degrees and has a Dry Loft shell, which I'd recommend if you are planning on winter hiking in rather extreme conditions. If you want to spend less, I think the Marmot Lithium is rated to something like 5 or 10 and costs less. Also, check out Feathered Friends (the other top maker).
http://www.westernmountaineering.com
http://www.featheredfriends.com
Thanks, great links! I'm debating on taking a 0 bag or a 30 bag on the AT next year, thinking about starting 4/1.
The Will
09-25-2005, 21:19
Thanks, great links! I'm debating on taking a 0 bag or a 30 bag on the AT next year, thinking about starting 4/1.
Smile,
Have you considered something in the 10-15 degree range for your hike? I used a 15 degree bag for my hike and actually shipped it home for a month during summer in the mid-Atlantic states. My opinion is that a zero degree bag is going to be pretty intense for most of your trip and a 30 degree bag may be inadequate more than a few nights during your early April start and at the end, depending on when you finish.
I second the recommendation for WM of FF products. They are pricey, but they're a true life long investment. My FF bag has survived an AT thru-hike and a 4.5 month canoeing and cycling trip through northwestern Canada and looks no worse for the wear.
alalskaman
09-26-2005, 02:29
I'm sure the WM,and FF are worthy contenders...also the Marmot Lithium, 900 fill, 2 lbs 11 oz. I like the Montbell bags -- their "#0" goes 2 lbs 10 oz in the regular, 2 lb 15 in the long. For my taste, the WM and FF are cut rather slim...the stretch feature of the Montbell suits me, and also makes it easy to add layers. You pays your money and you takes your choice. Bill
The Solemates
09-26-2005, 13:16
Thanks, great links! I'm debating on taking a 0 bag or a 30 bag on the AT next year, thinking about starting 4/1.
you will be fine with a 30 degree bag starting 4/1. we started 2/1 and i had a 5 degree bag. switched over in pearisburg to a 30 degree bag around mid-march and never got cold, despite having snow in SNP.
Footslogger
09-26-2005, 13:25
If you want to get one bag that will suffice in most cases ...why not split the difference and get something in the 15 - 20 degree range that will accomodate both extremes with a little clothing variation ?? You can get a bag in that comfort range at a considerable weight savings.
I may be a warm sleeper but I carried a 20 degree down bag from Springer to Pearsiburg and then again from Glencliff to Katahdin on my thru in 2003 and was OK. There were a few cool nights but I just wore some clothes to sleep and it worked out fine.
Just a thought ....
'Slogger
fiddlehead
09-26-2005, 16:33
I use a 20 degree Feathered Friends "Hummingbird" and add a micro fleece sleeping bag liner for the early and later weeks of a thru-hike. I've used the bag for 5 thru hikes now and except for the zipper getting a little harder to pull, it's still fine. (it may be a 30 degree bag now as it's a bit smaller from all the use)
Spirit Walker
09-26-2005, 17:06
I used a 20 degree bag on both AT thruhikes and only had a couple of nights were I was cold. (I tend to sleep cold normally.) Starting in January, I would go with a zero degree bag, but not in April.
Good advice, I'll probably go with a 15 - 20 bag...still looking around. What about Waterproof? Seems that they are much heavier, I'd like to find a bag that's less than 2 lbs. completely stashed......
The Solemates
09-29-2005, 10:56
Good advice, I'll probably go with a 15 - 20 bag...still looking around. What about Waterproof? Seems that they are much heavier, I'd like to find a bag that's less than 2 lbs. completely stashed......
To my knowledge there is no such thing as a waterproof sleeping bag.
Spirit Walker
09-29-2005, 12:23
The water repellant finish on down bags is a good idea, I think. If you are sleeping in a shelter on the AT, or sleeping out, sometimes the dew will come in and get you wet. If you are in a small tent (especially if you share it) there will be condensation. It adds to the cost and the weight, but IMO is worth it.
bulldog49
09-29-2005, 12:59
I have the Western Mountaineering Antelope DL. Weighs 2 lbs 13 oz and keeps me warm well into single digits. The DriLoft shell is very wind and water resistant.
Footslogger
09-29-2005, 13:18
[QUOTE=Smile]What about Waterproof? Seems that they are much heavier
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An alternative to the water repellant/proof shells (like Dryloft) on some of the down bags you can use a DWR (durable water repellant) spray. I carry the 20 degree sub-kilo bag down bag from REI. I sprayed the top and bottom surfaces with something called Tecron:
http://www.ems.com/products/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=84552444177 8747&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302161427&emssrcid=111&emssrclnk=01
Never had a problem with my bag absorbing moisture ...and we had a lot of rain during my thru in 2003.
'Slogger
Went with the Marmot Helium, nice bag, super warm and lite. A little snug in the elbow area but I'm learning to adjust. Had a bit of cold come through the compressed areas underneath me while camping on about 6 inches of snow, will work on that little glitch.......
Went with the Marmot Helium, nice bag, super warm and lite. A little snug in the elbow area but I'm learning to adjust. Had a bit of cold come through the compressed areas underneath me while camping on about 6 inches of snow, will work on that little glitch.......
if you add a insulated air mattress (like big agnes air core or maybe a down filled mattress) you can eliminate those flat cold spots in the down bag. they have channels that allow the down to stay somewhat lofty under the weight of your body by giving the down somewhere to go.
Hey General,
thanks for the advice. Right now I have a Thermarest, it's awesome, can sleep on hardwood floor and feel only a cushy sleep space. I checked under th tent after I took it down, seems like my form shaped the snow, and started causing ice to form from the escaping heat or just pressure.....should check into another alternative for the first month or so of my TH, shivering all night is a real drag, maybe an insulated pad to start.... Big Agnes are made for their bags though I understands, suggestions welcome!
I went with the Marmot Helium. I've done several nights out, but seem to find that where I 'rest' on the bag above the pad (Thermarest self inflatable) I am really cold. I'm wearing long underwear, and have had to add a heavyweight pant, and still feel it. Especially when I shift, turn over, or sleep on my back. The worst was in the snow, I was cozy for a bit, but then the cold really crept through. (I was in a tent with a standard floor, w/tyvek groundsheet).
Wondering if it is the pad, or if this is the MO of any down bag due to compression of the loft.
Options I'm considering are:
get another bag, maybe a 0
use an outside sil nylon cover ( not an internal liner)
get an insulated or other pad
Thanks, great links! I'm debating on taking a 0 bag or a 30 bag on the AT next year, thinking about starting 4/1.
In my experience, a 30 degree bag is enough for an April start, providing you also sleep in a medium fleece or down jacket, and long johns on cold nights. Keeping a pair of dry socks for sleeping also helps on those cold early spring nights.
For several decades, I've carried nothing but an ancient down Northface sleeping bag liner (estimated minimum temperature 45 degrees F, 28 ounces) between April 1 and November 1, even in chilly northern New England.
The jacket and long johns that supplemented my bag also felt extremely nice during those cold moments that develop as one stops after a long day on the trail.
But everyone reacts to the cold differently. I would try various options for a few nights this winter and see how it goes.
Weary
Alligator
01-03-2006, 13:49
I went with the Marmot Helium. I've done several nights out, but seem to find that where I 'rest' on the bag above the pad (Thermarest self inflatable) I am really cold. I'm wearing long underwear, and have had to add a heavyweight pant, and still feel it. Especially when I shift, turn over, or sleep on my back. The worst was in the snow, I was cozy for a bit, but then the cold really crept through. (I was in a tent with a standard floor, w/tyvek groundsheet).
Wondering if it is the pad, or if this is the MO of any down bag due to compression of the loft.
...
The most important question is, what temperatures were you sleeping in? The helium is a 15 bag? What type of T-rest? Were you wearing a hat? Does the helium have a chest baffle, as it sounds like you may be losing heat when you are moving around. If the bag isn't cinched up enough, you may be bellowing out your warm air.
T-rests aren't the warmest ground insulators. I used to take a blue foam pad as a second insulating layer with my 20 bag and T-rest(ultralite) in winter. I think two pads though is a bit heavy for a thru. Maybe wear more clothes to bed.
If you get a lower rated bag, you will definitely need to get a second one for the summer.
Temps from 7 - 30 F
Yes, Helium is a 15 bag - neck baffle
TRest - prolite 3
hat, yes
I'm thinking about going with a zero bag, but I think you are right about doubling up on the pads for a short time, can always ship one home afer a month, better to warm at night ;-)
Anybody have experience with the WM Zodiak DL ( 0 bag)?
Alligator
01-03-2006, 15:51
Temps from 7 - 30 F
Yes, Helium is a 15 bag - neck baffle
TRest - prolite 3
hat, yes
I'm thinking about going with a zero bag, but I think you are right about doubling up on the pads for a short time, can always ship one home afer a month, better to warm at night ;-)
...
IMO most bag ratings are either accurate or too liberal. Without augmentation, I would have expected to have been cold with that bag below 15 degrees. The prolite 3 is particulary airy at r=2.3, unless you have the women's version which is r=3.0.
You might consider cutting the foam pad to 3/4 size to save weight.
Footslogger
01-03-2006, 16:04
[quote=Alligator]IMO most bag ratings are either accurate or too liberal. Without augmentation, I would have expected to have been cold with that bag below 15 degrees.
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Not only that ...there are considerable differences in hikers as related to warmth/comfort. Example, I can (and did) hike the cold months on the AT in 2003 with a 20 degree down bag and was warm as toast. My wife on the other hand, who uses the same bag, has to add clothing to maintain her comfort.
I'd die in a 0 degree bag in the temps normally encountered on the AT but I hiked with lady who got to Maine and was so cold that she mail ordered herself a Lands End 0 degree bag and had it delivered to the motel in Stratton.
Just a thought on comfort ratings ...
'Slogger
Alligator
01-03-2006, 17:10
I agree, knowing whether the hiker is a warm/cold sleeper is also important. Folks aren't always sure about it though. It helps for you that you could compare with B.A.T., using the same bag under near similar conditions.
So far, Smile had on a hat, long johns, was in a tent, and had an insulating ground layer. The bag has a neck baffle and she took the bag into the 7-30 degree range. If she was cold at the 15-30 range, she would seem to lean towards being a cold sleeper or the bag rating is too liberal. But if she was cold in the 7-15 range, she may have just needed a little bit of extra clothes or another pad and she may just be an average sleeper.
Personally, if I were cold in just the 7-15 range, I would augment the bag. If I was cold under that sleep system at 20-30, I'd consider myself a cold sleeper and get the warmer bag.
Pressure Treated
01-03-2006, 22:49
I have a 0 degree synthetic bag. It is awesome, but it does not pack down worth a damn. People say don't get a down bag because if it gets wet it will not keep you warm where my bag will still holds heat wet. I am switching to a down bag for the compression size as well as the weight. I just can't fit everything in my pack with a sleeping bag that takes up all the room. I thru hiked with a guy in 2000 he had an awesome bag and a tent made by Stephenson. He was never wet or cold. All i have is their # 603-293-8526. Hope it helps.
Groom
I have a 0 degree synthetic bag. It is awesome, but it does not pack down worth a damn. People say don't get a down bag because if it gets wet it will not keep you warm where my bag will still holds heat wet. I am switching to a down bag for the compression size as well as the weight. I just can't fit everything in my pack with a sleeping bag that takes up all the room. I thru hiked with a guy in 2000 he had an awesome bag and a tent made by Stephenson. He was never wet or cold. All i have is their # 603-293-8526. Hope it helps.
Groom
Is this the site?
http://www.warmlite.com/start.htm
Oh, I love that site. :jump