View Full Version : SuperCat stove, stand, and test results
I made my first alcohol stove the other day, a SuperCat by Jim Woods:
http://jwbasecamp.com/Articles/SuperCat/index.html (http://jwbasecamp.com/Articles/SuperCat/index.html)
I decided on this stove because of its extreme simplicity and because it needs no stand. The stove works with the pot sitting right on top of it to create the pressure for the "jets".
The stove calls for two rows of twelve or fifteen 3/8" holes. I made the first one that way, using a drill to make the holes. Then I got a hole punch and made two more. The first one had one row of twelve holes and another row of eleven offset holes. The hole punch says it makes 1/4" holes, but they actually measure as 7/32" (I'm sure that's a huge difference). The punch makes much nicer holes.
After reading a post on the Atlanta stove (http://zenstoves.net/AtlantaStove.htm (http://zenstoves.net/AtlantaStove.htm)), I made another hole punch stove tonight, this time with just the lower row of twelve holes. It took six minutes to make, including removing the label and glue (easily half the time) and emptying out the cat food.
Tonight I also made a stand, following Jim Woods's directions almost to the letter. The only change I made was to the legs. Jim uses metal machine screws and nuts. I was concerned with the height of the stove while packed in my pot, so I wanted to have removable legs, something I could flip up to the top side when packed.
Cost of each stove was $0.33. Cost of the materials for the stand was $1.51, not including tools.
After a few ideas, I found some plastic shelf support pegs at Home Depot that looked perfect and ended up working well. You just drill a 3/16" hole in the masonite board, then push the pegs in. The fit is very tight, so you might have to stir the drill around a bit. Go slow. After seeing it assembled, I don't think I'll bother flipping the legs up when packed. I might either drop some epoxy in there or melt the tops down like a rivet to make the connection permanent, but the fit is very snug right now.
The masonite is pretty easy to work with. I traced the template and cut around it using a Dremel with a rotary cutter attachment. I finished it with a sanding attachment. It took about twenty minutes to cut and finish. One word of caution: the masonite creates a WORLD of sawdust. Doing it outside would be a good idea.
The only thing I had trouble with was the rivets. They look perfect on the bottom, but the inside still has them as little balls. I've never used a rivet gun before and must be doing something wrong. They work, but the ball head of the metal pin is broken off inside each one still. Also, put the rivets far out to the perimeter of the stove. The bottom of the can kind of "pops" in and out if you press on it. If you put the rivets in the middle (as I did), it will pop up and down on the base -- annoying. So, mine has six rivets instead of just three, but three is definitely enough.
With the plastic legs instead of the metal, and the "arms" cut just a bit shorter to fit easily in the bottom of my pot (Evernew 1.3L), the stand with stove weighs one ounce exactly, compared to 1.5 for the one described on Jim's site.
I did testing for all three and found the results to be very close for all of them, not significantly different, I don't think. It's cool to be able to pop each stove off of the stand and replace it with another one.
Each test was done:
- at room temperature (70) with no wind
- with 16 oz. of cold tap water
- started with 1 oz. of fuel-line de-icer
- in a 1.3 ti pot with lid and lid-cozy (pot was completely cooled each time)
- without windscreen or bottom reflector
Also, I let the remainder of the fuel burn off with the pot still on to get some idea of fuel efficiency.
All stoves brought the water to a full boil in 4:30, with the rest of the fuel burning off in an additional 3:00.
The stand created a very stable base. It gets hot to the touch after boiling the water, but not enough to do anything to the base or to melt the legs.
Overall, I'm pretty satisfied. The stove, stand, and windscreen weigh 2 oz. I usually only boil 8 oz. at a time for my meals. I cook twice a day, with dinner usually consisting of two 8 oz. meals, so I feel comfortable planning on 2 oz. of fuel per day (some extra just in case).
I want to make another stove tomorrow (forgot to get the cat food at the store today) using extremely small holes, maybe 1/16". I'm guessing it will increase the burn time, but I'd be even happier if it was slightly more efficient.
For a five day trip, total weight will be 13 oz. (stove, stand, windscreen, 10 oz. fuel, fuel bottle). My Giga Power stove weighs 6 oz. with screen (kite screen) and case. A four ounce fuel canister lasts me five days exactly and weighs 8 oz. That's 14 oz. for five days on the Giga.
So, not a huge weight savings. The empty weight is 3 oz. vs. 10 oz. (stove plus empty canister), though, so the overall average weight is significantly lower, I suppose.
Even if there were no weight savings, I think I'm still sold. It's simple -- I feel very confident that I'd be able to make one on the trail if I had to and there's pretty much nothing to go wrong. The fuel seems to be everywhere. I was on a trip through CT and MA this month and was thinking about alcohol stoves when I stopped. Gas stations etc always had fuel, but I never saw canisters. I also really like that I made it myself.
I figure my next short trip, I'll bring it and my canister for backup and give it the real world workout. Anyway, thanks to everyone here for all of the good information. Good lord, sorry this was so long. Here are some pictures of the stoves, stand, and various burns.
welcome to the world of stove tinkererers. erers... alkies.
it's a lot of fun... i've built and tested just about every design i could find on the net, love building new ones, and gained a lot of self confidence in my newfound knowledge. keep at it.
Pow, another quick WB response.
Thanks, Seeker. I've enjoyed messing with this stuff, too. I started up with alcohol stoves for simplicity. Thirty-six hours of testing and assembly later...
Have you tried this style of stove before, Seeker? How did it compare to others? What stove have you found to be the best all-around?
Any other good tips or advice for a new alkie?
Nameless
09-27-2005, 03:17
Another hollar for the SuperCat. I took one over 200 miles of Maine, and a few more of Alaska. I've given many away, and advertised it everywhere i go. Nothing can beat the sheer simplicity of the SuperCat, and the reliable cooking water from 1/2 oz of fuel. Too make drilling the holes quicker and neater I first go around the can with a thumb tack. There is a pattern linked too on the SuperCat page that had a pattern you can cut out and tape to a can. Need any help building one? just ask me...
Pink
Very cool!
How is it with the pot sitting on in boiling away? Its not tippy?
Whistler
09-27-2005, 07:41
I've never found mine all that tippy, either on tables or regular old dirt. I use a .9L Evernew pot. For my purposes, once it's set and stable on the stove, I generally don't mess with it. And if I need to stir, I'm holding the handle. So, really no stability concerns for me.
-Mark
Thanks everyone for the comments.
Nameless, good thinking on the thumbtack pilot holes. When I drilled the first one, I taped and measured. When I used the hole punch, I punched one hole, then another opposite it. Then I punched one in between each of those, giving me four. I then punched two in between each of those, giving me twelve total. Easy to eyeball and you can see from the photos that it came out professional looking. Also, pushing the hole punch down as far as it will go on the can puts the holes at the perfect height for the bottom row.
The stove doesn't seem tippy at all. The can provides good support for the pot and the stand makes the can extremely stable. I also always hold the handles when stirring, which I don't do much of.
Those of you who've used the stove, do my fuel estimations seem accurate? How much fuel do you bring for a given length trip? Also, fuel is measured in liquid ounces, right? It seems to weigh a few ounces less than water for a bottle.
Thanks again. Still interested to hear any tips or advice for design, construction, use, whatever. Also, I'd love to hear how this stove stacks up compared to some others that you guys have tried. I actually ordered an Anti-Gravity Gear beer can stove before deciding to build this one. It came in today, so I'm going to test it out tonight and see how the SuperCat stacks up.
The Solemates
09-27-2005, 09:46
i dont know if i have ever tried to boil only 16 oz of cool tap water (50F) at room temperature (70F) with no wind.
at the very least, in the humblest conditions, i would be boiling 24 oz (2 cups for supper, 1 cup for hot drink) of cold mountain water (40F) at 70F with 5-10mph winds during summer hiking. but more likely, I would be boiling 24oz of colder mountain water (35F) at 50F with 10-15mph winds during fall hiking, or boiling 24oz of coldest mountain water (33F) at 20F with 25-30mph winds during winter hiking. i know we have to normalize, but how does this stove perform in "real" conditions?
Allow me to answer my own question: Last year I built a number (over 5 different designs) of alcohol stoves because I wanted to lighten my stove load. My tests were conducted using 20oz of cold tap water (50F) at 40F with 10-15mph winds, typical of a fall/mild winter day. I used a 1.4L titanium Snow Peak pot with lid, and a homemade windscreen that reached halfway up the pot and was placed approx. 1/4" away from the outer surface of the pot. The stove was placed on top of a flat metal surface (my grill). A summary of results: the pepsi can stove never boiled the water; the 2oz of fuel I added burned out before it was boiled and I found it cumbersome to keep adding fuel while trying to boil water. Modified pepsi can designs performed similarly, even when I added several iterations of homemade pot stands. The CAT stove boiled water, but took nearly 14 minutes to do so. The best design I could find on the internet was a modified CAT stove (included 2 CAT cans nested in one another), which included a unique windscreen as well. The results of this stove was that it boiled water in over 9 minutes and the whole assembly weighed in at around 7 ounces. Add in fuel/fuel bottle for a one week trip, and this total became nearly 18 ounces. I then pulled out my MSR Simmerlite, which boiled the water (at the same conditions) in just under 4 minutes. The whole assembly, complete with one week's fuel, weighed in at just over 24 ounces. For the extra 6 ounces, and drastically decreased boiling time, I decided the Simmerlite was the "weigh" to go. I also compared other similar liquid gas stoves and their weights and fuel consumptions (ie, Jetboil, MSR canister stoves) and I still prefered the Simmerlite. Besides that, I have found in the field that canister stoves suck in cold conditions, and alcohol stoves do not even perform in cold conditions.
Of course, for the real stove expert, check on SGT Rocks webpage. www.hikinghq.net
I think I'll stick with the long-trusted way of cooking.
...just my two cents...
Solemates,
Thanks for the frank review. I'm doing my very best to use practicality and real world results to fight the stupendous romance created by making my own stuff. I realize my kitchen tests aren't very "real world". I started talking about this stove in another thread where my focus was on the hole position, number, and size for this design, so my comparison testing above was more in regard to that than anything else, which I should have said at the beginning. Outdoor testing is definitely the next step.
I've been using WhisperLites (or DragonFlys or SimmerLites) since I started hiking seriously, about seven years ago. I've had them out in every condition from middle of summer to blizzard, hiking trips, river trips, etc. After setting myself on fire a few times getting the priming down, I've never had a problem with them.
I moved to a Giga Power this summer after seeing a friend use one. I liked the light weight, the ease of use, simplicity, and the excellent adjustability. I'd heard that the canisters can be a pain in the winter, but I've also read lots of people saying that if you warm it in a pocket for a bit, it's no big deal.
I did a 100-mile section in CT/MA a few weeks back. In preparing for that trip, I started reading more seriously about alcohol stoves, but didn't have time to get/make one or get familiar with it before I left. It was my first trip with my canister stove and it worked great. I took an 8 oz. and a 4 oz. canister. The 4 lasted me five days. It was warm the whole time, but I never used a windscreen and wasn't particularly careful about fuel consumption.
I realized after that trip that I don't really care about adjustability. I only ever boil. I used to simmer while making rice, but have since switched to boiling it, then letting it sit in a cozy. That, the weight, and what seems to be the superior availability of alcohol fuel pushed me to try one out at home.
I realize that the canister is probably the most practical solution for me. I only get to do long trips (100+ miles) once, maybe twice, a year, so fuel availability isn't really an issue. I do have plans to do a thru-hike one of these years, though, so try to focus my gear on that. Also, I do really like the simplicity and the fact that it's something I made myself.
So, the debate of white gas/canister/alcohol burns inside me.
Anyway, I'm very interested to hear the counter from the pro-alcohol stove users. Pink, you're an Alaska gal and SuperCat user. Your input on the subject of cold weather cooking seems especially pertinent. What do you think?
Solemates, thanks again for the feedback. Very useful. You've actually gotten me thinking about my WhisperLite again. I need figure out exactly how much that set-up weighs for the same amount of time and factor that into the comparison.
The Solemates
09-27-2005, 11:55
Solemates,
Thanks for the frank review. I'm doing my very best to use practicality and real world results to fight the stupendous romance created by making my own stuff.
I know what you mean exactly. Many people, myself included, often fall into this rut.
Im happy to talk stoves.
This is not to say, though, that your set-up would work nicely for summer hiking. In fact, I am sure it would be okay and would perhaps even weigh less in the long run. I, however, like to take the guesswork, etc. out of the process and I also like to just be able to use the same stove, no matter the weather conditions, especially since many places I travel the weather conditions are so fast-changing. To each his own..
Happy tinkering.
And I know what you mean exactly. I like to have the same gear all the time also. I really don't want to have a summer stove and winter stove. I already feel like I'm being unfaithful carrying varying degrees of insulation for winter camping. And I keep telling myself I'm going to get a giant tarp and aluminum poles for kayak camping, but I always end up using my hiking stuff.
Okay, if I were thru-hiking my kitchen, I think I'd go for the alkie stove for the reasons listed above. Also, my backpacking stuff is ready to go for when the zombies attack, so it's good to have fuel that's so readily available.
I will try to keep a very open mind this winter and make enough cold weather hiking and river trips to thoroughly test and compare all three stove styles. I will do my very best to make an honest evaluation that will suit my needs.
I'm honestly not crazy concerned with the weight either. My pack weight is low enough and very comfortable for me. Four or five ounces isn't going to be a deal-breaker if one stove clearly out-performs or out-reliables another.
The upside is that, even if I scrap the alcohol project altogether, I'm out $5.05 for the materials and fuels used so far. That's the other nice part of homemade.
More results.
I tested out the Anti-Gravity Gear stove I just received and also made another SuperCat, this time with 1/16" holes in one row (similar to the AGG). Both performed almost exactly the same as my previous SuperCats with the exception that both really needed to be primed before putting the pot on.
So, that's four SuperCats and a Pepsi stove all boiling my water in around 4:30 and burning for about three minutes more on an ounce of fuel. Both times for all stoves were within fifteen seconds of each other.
Based on these tests, I'm going with my stove with the two rows of large hole-punched holes. Same performance, but putting the pot on while it comes up to full heat won't snuff the flame.
patrick,
sorry for the delay... still having some intermittent power outages, but i think we're up for now...
my guru regarding alcohol stoves is SGT ROCK, at http://hikinghq.net/
rock's pretty anal, like all good sergeants, and you wouldn't believe the detail he's gone into when researching and comparing stoves... best advice is go to his site and look into the stove section. he compares a couple different kinds. cat stove is good, ion is better...
i have a few concerns with how it might perform in cold weather, but here in SW LA, cold isn't a problem. i made my current stove based on his ION design, from two small V8 juice cans. it's tiny, works well, and weighs hardly anything. you can't ask for much more.
i have a simmerlite stove, but am not too happy with the noise, smell of fuel, and weight. works good here in the winter though.
i'm never in a hurry for dinner, so how fast a stove cooks isn't too big a deal... i can wait 5 extra minutes.
as a side note, i did have some of my pepsi stove designs that just didn't boil water... never did quite figure out why, but some burned too fast, others too cool... i just took the ones that worked and used them. i think hole size and placement had something to do with it... once i found rock's site though, i just copied his good ideas and learned from his failures. good guy, good site. check it out.
Seeker, no problem; thanks for the reply. I've checked out Sarge's site and found it pretty useful.
I was just going back over some stuff there and I'm rethinking this again. I don't think I was paying enough attention to the efficiency aspect. According to my tests, my stove is taking about 60ml of fuel to boil a pint of water at 70 degrees. According to his site, his stove will boil a pint water on 12ml of fuel at 70 degrees and on 18ml of fuel down to 35 degrees. Amazing difference, obviously. It takes his a long time to do it, but I don't really care about that either.
So, today I'll build one of his. If I can get close to the same results, that goes a long way towards convincing me that alcohol is the way to go.
something i've not figured out yet is why you can build two virtually identical stoves, and have them perform so differently... it's amazing... i've made pepsi can stoves i couldn't get a boil from at all... and others, with the same design, but maybe a slightly different number or spacing of holes, burn totally different.
keep at it... i think you're hooked now... but it's a fun addiction... keeps me off the streets too.
It's funny, I seem to have exactly the opposite problem. All of my stoves perform the same.
One thing I don't get about Sgt. Rock's stove is how it can burn so long and still be an open design. The burners are small, but there's still the fill hole at the top. He's getting ten minute boils on 15 ml of fuel meaning that if he put an ounce in that thing, it would burn for like twenty minutes.
Ooh, wait a minute. I just realized that I figured mine way off. I was figuring that mine burned for a total of 7:30 and that it boiled in 4:30 meaning that it was using 60% of the fuel to boil the water. For some reason (maybe because I was doing the calculations in the elevator on my cell phone), I was assuming that a fluid ounce was 100 ml. No idea where I got that, but I see from my apple juice bottle here now that 10 fluid ounces is 295 ml, so it looks more like my stove is going through 60% of 30 ml of fuel or roughly 18 ml to get a boil. Still not Sgt. Rock numbers by any means, but not the abysmal efficiency failure that it seemed from yesterday.
I got to reading a good thread on here yesterday about cold weather alcohol stove use and it seemed a lot of people had failures with Pepsi stoves (I've yet to see one of these that isn't actually a beer can) or the like, but did very well with Ion or Trangias. I have no experience with those at all, but I noticed when making mine that the small hole versions (including my Pepsi stove) took a bit of patience to prime, where the large hole -- especially two-row -- I could light and put the pot on there immediately. It would still take thirty seconds or so for the jets to get going to full power, but it lit easily, stayed lit and heated the pot while coming up to speed. That gives me some hope that it will perform decently in the winter. It's getting cooler here, so I'll be able to test this out at night.
Anyway, back to Sgt. Rock's long burns. It looks like the diameter of his can is smaller (ha), which may explain it. Both stoves seem to be essentially open cans burning fuel and if one had a smaller diameter, less fuel would be exposed to be burned. That would also explain why mine all seem to have the same times, despite different hole configurations.
Some math...
Looking at the specs, his stove with stand lists a 2.875" diameter and the SuperCat lists 2 3/8" (2.375). That puts the SuperCat alcohol surface area at about 4.43 square inches (pi * r^2). For surface area half that, you'd need a diameter of 2.38" (D = 2 * sqrt[4.43/3.14]). I'm not sure what the diameter of his stove without stand is exactly, but it seems reasonable that it could be that size. That would back up the idea that smaller alcohol surface area creates longer burns, maybe even being one of the major factors in how a given stove will perform.
Or maybe I'm completely off.
Anyway, last night I got stuck doing some drywall, so didn't get to build an Ion. After going through all this, I'm really hot to do it now, so I'll try to get the supplies tonight, take some measurements, and run some tests.
Kerosene
09-29-2005, 11:34
(maybe because I was doing the calculations in the elevator on my cell phone)Boy, you're as bad as me planning out my next section hike while sitting in a boring management meeting! :banana
That probably makes you the most productive person in the meeting.
Dances with Mice
09-29-2005, 12:38
I think (...which is dangerous, but I digress already...) that Rock uses small juice cans, like the smallest size V-8, to make his stoves.
If you were to put one of those inside a small cat food can.... oh, nevermind, silly idea.
I just marked off two inches on a business card and headed to our little lobby shop. A Red Bull can does have a diameter of 2" (maybe a touch more), so my theory is holding up so far. Can't wait to do some stove building tonight. I might have to blow off my Dorks of the World club meeting, but I'm sure it will be worth it.
Nightwalker
09-29-2005, 14:23
I think that Rock uses small juice cans, like the smallest size V-8, to make his stoves.
Wedding favor tins. 30 for 20 bucks at Michael's. Takes two to make a stove.
http://www.ionstove.com/build.htm#Production
Ha, made an error in my math and forgot to shoot for half the surface area of the SuperCat. The correct can diameter to give half the surface area should be d = 2 * sqrt[2.215/3.14], which gives 1.68". Got some wedding tins at Michael's at lunch (thanks, franklooper) and they're 2" exact. I'll stop jawing about this and just make a few stoves tonight and report back. Thanks again for all of the help and advice.
rock's homemade ion plan does call for a tiny juice can... i was amazed that it worked at all... couldn't believe something so small could produce so much heat... i love it...
i think i got so much variation because i was pretty casual about hole diameter and placement at first... was using a sewing needle... sometimes i got it just a little way in (small hole), other times all the way in (larger hole)... number of holes varied intentionally, but the space between them was often erractic in my early stoves... later on, a bought a 1/40th inch (.025) drill bit and marked stuff off more carefully... got more consistent results then...
glad i'm not the only one who plans trips while in meetings... but don't miss the Dorks of the World meetings... they're important... we'd miss seeing you there...
Seeker,
Help! I made Rock's stove, but I don't get it. The flame only comes out of the big hole in the middle, not the "burner" holes. Everything is to his specs, big hole is 1", small holes are 1/16". I'm using a different stand, but I can't see where that would matter. What am I doing wrong?
hmm... hard to 'see' on the web. maybe you're not doing anything specifically 'wrong', but consider the following:
are you sure? the flames are hard to see, as you know... check it with the lights off. the burner pattern is different than for a pepsi stove... smaller around, and the flame pattern might just run together and look like it's 'wrong'.
does it happen only at first, or does it come out the holes eventually, once it's warmed up some? or not at all during the whole time it's burning?
do you have at least a half ounce of fuel in it? (i'm thinking burn time, with the above comment).
different stand makes a difference... rock said when he went to the new three L-shaped piece stand, it blocked the wind differently, and he had to adjust the holes accordingly (i think by making more of them.) stands to reason that if you used a different stand, it might burn differently...
that's all that comes immediately to mind... like i said in an earlier post, i've had some inexplicable non-boiling stoves... i guess the most important thing is 'are you getting water to boil on a half ounce of fuel?' if not, you have a problem. if you are, and it's in a reasonable time, i wouldn't worry too much over it... just get wedding favor tins numbers 3 of 20 and 4 of 20 out of the bag and do it again and see what happens!
Okay, gave up on the Ion stove for the night, but I did come up with a design of my own that seems pretty good from initial testing.
Same conditions. 70 degrees in here, 16 oz. of cold tap water, no widscreen, no wind, lidded 1.3 liter ti pot.
One ounce of fuel burned for 15:15. Full boil at 8:45. That yields 17 ml of fuel, but I actually think it's less because it took some time to get up to full burn, so I think less fuel was burning for the first minute or two. I'll test more tomorrow with a windscreen and thermometer.
If I can get a reliable boil on a half ounce of fuel over multiple trials, I'm ready to call it a success.
My girlfriend has a bridesmaid's party tomorrow night, so it's looking like another Friday night of stove testing for me. Pictures, figures, test results. Ah, the life of a total badass...
lol....you rebel you
(I have 4 cans of cat food on my counter and I don't have a cat....can't imagine what they are for! :bse )
Big Dawg
09-30-2005, 07:19
[QUOTE=Dances with Mice]I think that Rock uses small juice cans, like the smallest size V-8, to make his stoves.
QUOTE]
He did on his old design, but new production design uses wedding favor tins. I have supplies/tools, just haven't had a chance to make it yet. Can't wait!!! :D
Big Dawg
09-30-2005, 07:58
Sorry, Franklooper,,,,, just noticed your post.
Big Dawg
10-14-2005, 12:38
I'm very impressed w/ my recently made SuperCat stove. Not the most fuel efficient, but extremely easy to make, burns hot--therefore quick boil. I just made a lighter version of the support base. Basically I was making the components for an Ion stove (waiting on a titanium sheet from SGT Rock), & realized the aluminum flashing used to make a priming tray/sand base for the Ion was perfect for a support base for the SuperCat. I'll post pictures soon, but this new little base has legs similar to the original SuperCat base design, has sides that exactly match the diameter of the SuperCat stove to hold the stove firm (eliminating the need for the 1/2 cat can support, including screws). This little base works as a priming tray in cold weather----like the Ion stove suggests. This new base design reduced the weight of the SuperCat stove/base by 1.3 oz, per my scale. WOW, I love this stove building thing!!! :clap
betic4lyf
10-14-2005, 17:45
my dad has a svea stove. it is a beast, but it has that too old for you to complain about its faults, along with the (light) six pound two man tent (20-30 years ago)
but i use an alcohol stove and i wanna bring one of my super cool wood stoves. They are fun just because my dog is a ravenous beast and eats
This new base design reduced the weight of the SuperCat stove/base by 1.3 oz, per my scale. WOW, I love this stove building thing!!! :clap
yeehaa! another convert!
wait til you try the ion... less than an ounce each for the stove and a catfood can stand... welcome to the insane world of stove building...
''show me a sane man, and i will cure him for you.'' Jung (he must have been a stover tinker too...)
http://webpages.charter.net/fam-strick/web/lowpressurestoves.htm
This is a link to my Super Cat Bases, that I make, hope you get some ideas!
bstwo,
Looks great. On the two way cat stove, are there holes in the inner can also? Looks from the photo like it's solid.
I really like the idea of a stove that can employ either.
bstwo,
Looks great. On the two way cat stove, are there holes in the inner can also? Looks from the photo like it's solid.
I really like the idea of a stove that can employ either.
No, just the hole in the center.
Ah, the can with the hole in it is just a lid. You said cut off 5/16" for the inner can, I thought you meant it was its full height minus that. Thanks again for posting the link; they look great. Do you have specs on the amount of fuel used per boil?
Ah, the can with the hole in it is just a lid. You said cut off 5/16" for the inner can, I thought you meant it was its full height minus that. Thanks again for posting the link; they look great. Do you have specs on the amount of fuel used per boil?
I will look for my notes, but it should be the same as the Super Cat.
In side burner mode, [pot on the burner] with 3/4 oz. you can boil 16 oz. of tap water in 5 min. That includes 30 sec. of preheat. [dribbling some alcohol on the top and holing the pot over it] then lower the pot and wait about 4.5 minutes more. With fuel left over.
With the pot about an inch above the burner. 3/4 oz. of fuel will get the water bouiling in 4 1/2 min. and no fuel left. In chimney mode it is faster, but uses more fuel.
bstwo,
Thanks for finding that out. I was actually just making some stoves at lunch today. I'm not so much concerned about the speed as the efficiency, which translates to weight.
Seems like, in that category, nothing matches the Ion.
When I thru hiked in 96 a lot of the hikers using various alcohol stoves had trouble boiling water in the cold windy environment along with the near freezing creek water. One of the guys even got burned pretty bad using a less than sturdy homemade one. On several or more occasions I allowed fellow hikers to use my sierra zip (wood-burner, w/battery 16oz) stove to prepare meals. The hikers where either out or nearly out of fuel (and not just alcohol) and a long way from resupply. Usually 3-5 pine cones would boil a liter of water in 5 Min's or less. I use cotton balls soaked in Vaseline, and kept in a film canister,for starter, also good for chaffing/chapped lips. I have always been able to start a fire, rain or no rain. I also have zero problems carrying the unit on airplanes (the reason I first got a zip). I have used alcohol stoves before the zip and had trouble finding the right alcohol or methanol fuel. I also had trouble in cold weather and high altitudes with the alcohol. The only problem with the zip is when above tree-line. So, I carry wood or charcoal for those times. I save a lot of time and worry by not having to depend on buying fuel for my gas/alcohol stove. My next stove will be the Sierra Zip Titanium, same thing only lighter.
I'm still playing with my alcohol stoves. I'm not totally sold on them yet, but I'm liking them more. I also want to experiment with a small woodburning stove.
I think no matter what, as long as you're familiar with it (in all conditions), it's not such a big deal. I'm sure plenty of people will respond that they thru-hiked with [alcohol/white gas/wood/canister] and it was great while other stoves were falling apart all around them.
I also think you should be prepared to build a fire no matter what, so it's not the end of the world if your stove fails, runs out of fuel, gets eaten by a bear, etc.
I'm using a Supercat for one reason....reliability. No repair kit needed...thank you very much.
sirbingo
02-05-2007, 11:00
i wanna bring one of my super cool wood stoves. They are fun just because my dog is a ravenous beast and eats
Hey Betic4lyf,
What's this super cool wood stove you speak of?
:-?
Sirbingo
...and alcohol stoves do not even perform in cold conditions.
Well then, it was either not as cold as the thermometer indicated (-1) or the water wasn't boiling and the food wasn't hot like I thought.
I guess everyone's experience differs a little with alcohol stoves. :-?