First Time AT Section Hike (Harpers Ferry to Manassas Gap) - Questions!

[v_astro]

Morning All,

I'm very excited to be planning a life-long ambition of beginning to hike the AT.

I've picked three days (two nights) in mid June where I'm going to attempt to hike from Harpers Ferry to Manassas Gap and have my wife pick me up in Linden, VA for the drive back to Northern Virginia.

I've picked up the PATC map of these sections and have been studying them, am doing online research, and visited the PATC HQ in Vienna, VA last night to get some advice.

A few questions if you don't mind:

1. Per my discussions with the PATC folks, they told me most of the thru hikers going northbound should be hitting Virginia right about now. He recommended going southbound to avoid the traffic. I really have my choice of going north or south in NOVA, but Harpers to Manassas Gap seemed the easiest dropping off point and picking up point from Fairfax. Is there any reason why I wouldn't want to do this route or is there a better one I'm not considering?

2. I've been looking at the distances between shelters. I don't know if I should be concerned or not. I plan on taking a 2 man tent, but I want to make sure I'll have access to water and the ability to make a fire. Not sure if I can make a fire "just anywhere." I've read it must be in designated areas, and I'm wondering if the shelter spots are the only "designated areas" along the AT in VA. If not, I have no problem pulling off to the side and making a fire in a pit, but somehow I don't think that would fly. I'm just concerned about the distances because it looks like Harpers Ferry to the Bear Den Hostel is 20.2 miles. I figure on a good day pushing it a bit I can do 15-20 miles. Is that unreasonable? Because that would involve going through the "Devil's Racecourse" in the later part of the day and that's a long stretch between the Blackburn Trail Center and Bear Den. I'm just trying to think of options I'd have. I don't want to bite off more than I can chew. Like I said, I'll have a tent and don't necessarily need to sleep at a shelter, but if anyone has a recommended plan, I'd appreciate it.

3. Baring any freak winter storms or showers, what should I expect as far as weather and clothes? I was told it'd be a little cool at night, but shorts and t-shirts should be fine for the three days I'll be out there.

4. I have a water filtration system and other items. Anything else specifically I should consider bringing?

5. Finally, as far as food is concerned, I'm former military and have no problem with MREs, but saw they are frowned upon on the AT. Aside from power bars, granola bars, water, etc., what should I consider buying for "main meals" on this short section hike?

Thanks for any advice anyone can give. I'm very excited about this as I've been looking forward to doing something like this for 15 years or so.

Best,

V.

[rafe]

Forget the idea of a fire every night or wherever you want it. Making a new fire pit at a location of your choosing is a big no-no. Most (but not all) shelters have a fire pit, perfectly OK to use that.

15-20 miles a day is not unreasonable -- once you're in shape, and as long as you keep your pack weight down. Most thru-hikers average under 15 miles per day over the course of their hikes from GA to ME.

There's no reason to do the distance from HF to Bears Den in one day. You could aim for Blackburn Trail Center for an easy 12 mile day.

Direction-of-travel won't make any difference in terms of avoiding thru-hikers. The center of the northbound wave will be right about where you are (northern VA) in mid June.

[FarmerChef]

First off: Welcome to Whiteblaze! :welcome

Second, here's some answers to your questions. Keep in mind, they are how I hike and you will undoubtedly hike different.

1. It's completely up to you. If you want company, head northbound, if you seek more solitude (but definitely not alone time) head south. You'll either be passed a lot heading NOBO or walk past a lot heading SOBO. Neither is right or wrong.

2. Sounds like you're missing some shelters in between Harper's Ferry and Bear's Den. Consider picking up The A.T. Guide or AT Companion which both have a complete list of shelters, campsites, hostels, hotels and other sleeping locations. You only need to take the pages you'll use on that hike and it makes it so much easier. Can't recommend it enough.
From Harper's Ferry heading south there are several campsite areas on the side of the trail as well as Blackburn Trail Center. David Lesser Memorial Shelter is in there too. Up to the Roller Coaster the trail is easy and flat and you can make great time if your'e in reasonable shape. There are plenty of places to stop for the night. With regard to fires, make them in the rings at campsites or the shelters. Please do not make a new ring somewhere. Alternatively, consider picking up a pocket rocket or similar type stove and a can of fuel at the outfitter in HF. I love fires and make them all the time but it's easier to just use the stove.

3. Weather is the same as in Vienna just 4 or 5 degrees cooler in the mountain during the day and as much as 10 cooler at night. In June look for temps in the 40s to 50s at night but possibly up to 60 or 70 if we get a warm spell. Daytime temps will be in the 70s to 80s so bring those shorts and a t-shirt or lightweight pants. A pair of "camp pants" and a long-sleeve shirt can be a great help with the cool of night after you stop.

4. Make sure you have the top 10 essentials (varies). Have at least your tent, sleep system, cook kit, water filter, firestarter, clothes (up to you but usually one pair for day and another warmer set for night should do it - but there are lots of alternatives), and food. Rain isn't out of the question either but if you can choose your weekend, why not move it if the weather isn't nice. Either way, at least bring a disposable poncho or some other way to protect you from the rain. Also, throw a garbage compactor bag or black (heavy duty) trashbag in your pack as a liner. You'll be thankful when you get caught in a thunderstorm and arrive at camp with dry clothes and sleeping bag for the night.

5. Eat MREs if you want to. It's YOUR hike not anyone else's. Lots of folks bring Lipton rice or Knorr Pasta sides or Mac and Cheese, Ramen, etc. You can order additional dehydrated ingredients including proteins online very easily. Consider pepperoni or summer sausage as a shelf-stable product you can cut into your meals. Bacon bits can be found at Wal Mart or Sam's/Costco. Be creative! Check out a product called "Nido" in Wal Mart. It's sold as baby formula but is, in fact, just spray dried whole milk. Pop a little into your mac and cheese for a creamy texture or bring breakfast cereal, add some powder and pour in water. Voila! Cereal with Cold Milk. Instant pudding can also be done this way. Combine the milk and packet and stir until it's done to your liking. Spring water is plenty cold to get 'er done.

6. Have FUN! Don't over think it. You'll probably pack too much your first time anyway. Just get out there and enjoy it. And be prepared to not make your goal or exceed it. Either one is "right."

[v_astro]

" Have FUN! Don't over think it. You'll probably pack too much your first time anyway. Just get out there and enjoy it. And be prepared to not make your goal or exceed it. Either one is "right."

I love this bit of advice. It's exactly what I'm planning to do.

I could sit here and game plan the whole thing out, or I could just do it, have fun, and learn from my mistakes.

I can't wait to screw up!

Thanks to both of you for this advice. It's very helpful. Any additional advice is appreciated greatly!

[Coffee]

Harpers Ferry to Linden is around 45 miles and you have three days so the average would be about 15 mpd. However, the roller coaster section between route 7 and 50 is quite a bit harder than the Harpers Ferry to Bears Den section so if you are up for that 20 mile stretch on the first day that could pay off in terms of lowering mileage on the second day. Also Bears Den is a nice place to stay, although this time of year it may be crowded with thru hikers.

[v_astro]

Using everyone's advice, I think HP to Blackburn Trail Center is about 12 miles for the first overnight. I probably wouldn't be able to start out of HP until 11 AM as my wife will have to drive me there from Fairfax, so that'd be a decent first day on limited day light. That would leave me fresh to start the Roller Coaster first thing in the morning (8 miles or so) and make it to Dicks Dome Shelter on a full day - a distance of 17.9 miles or so - for my second overnight. Then, my final and short day, I'd go from there to Linden, which is about 12.5 miles in 8 to 9 hours (begin around 7 or 8 AM and finish at 3 or 4 PM).

Does that sound do-able?

[rafe]

Don't expect much from Dick's Dome... in my opinion, one of the rattiest shelters on the AT, and no level ground around the shelter for pitching a tent (somewhat unusual in that regard.)

There's quite a bit of meadow walking in that neighborhood. What I'd do is stock up on water and camp somewhere. I don't remember the condition of Rod Hollow shelter, but Manassas Gap is fine, and Molly Denton shelter is (relatively speaking) a palace.

[MDSection12]

No one can tell you what's reasonable for you. That would be reasonable for me, and I'm no super-hiker by any means, but that doesn't mean it is for you. That said, if you're in decent shape and don't try to carry a crazy amount if weight then that should be fine.

I find that I (as well as most guys I hike with) will average 2.5 mph over the course of a day... So that's total time between camps. In actuality I'm hiking slightly over 3 mph, but breaks and lunch bring it down to 2.5 mph. It really has become a magic number for me, regardless of how the day goes when I sit down in camp and do the math sure enough, 2.5 mph.

[v_astro]

There's quite a bit of meadow walking in that neighborhood. What I'd do is stock up on water and camp somewhere.

Camping in the meadows would preclude fire building, correct? (Are there fire pits along the way not connected to shelters?)

In the Army, 4 miles per hour was considered standards pace, but this was on firebreaks, not up and down hills. I figured 2 mph would be a good estimate, but 2.5 would be even better.

Any recommendations on footwear? I hate hiking boots and have seen some advice about going with a trail shoe. I hiked parts of the Pacific Coast Trail in a pair of Kelty flip flops and they were fine, but the "roller coaster" might prevent their use.

[rafe]

Camping in the meadows would preclude fire building, correct? (Are there fire pits along the way not connected to shelters?)

Correct. I'm afraid you're going to have to get over this fire-every-night idea. That might have been a reasonable expectation 30 or 40 years ago, but things have changed. If you must have your fire, you're stuck at shelters and designated campsites.


In the Army, 4 miles per hour was considered standards pace, but this was on firebreaks, not up and down hills. I figured 2 mph would be a good estimate, but 2.5 would be even better.

Depends on the terrain and your fitness level and the load you're carrying, among other things. A typical/median thru-hiker will do 15 miles over the course of eight or ten hours... you do the math. More in flat, easy stretches, and less in tough, steep stretches.


Any recommendations on footwear? I hate hiking boots and have seen some advice about going with a trail shoe. I hiked parts of the Pacific Coast Trail in a pair of Kelty flip flops and they were fine, but the "roller coaster" might prevent their use.

Most folks are going with ever-lighter footwear. So-called "trail runners" are just running shoes beefed up a bit for irregular terrain. I hardly ever see a long-distance hiker wearing leather boots these days.

I think in general the PCT is a more forgiving footpath than the AT.

[MDSection12]

There are some random campsites you'll see in that section, with fire pits, but generally it's frowned upon to start fires when 'stealth camping' (camping just anywhere off-trail). If there's an established fire ring then personally I don't see much harm, but making a new one is certainly poor practice. Consider that you'll be exhausted (especially on night two) after hiking and likely won't care enough to bother with a fire. Some bring a candle for the ambience of a fire.

I may walk 4 mph at times, but I never hold that pace for more than an hour or so. I'm not in incredible shape by any means, but I'm in good shape and I'm tall... I just set durations to hike without stopping usually. So I'll say 'no stopping for an hour' then take a short break and repeat. It seems to keep my pace consistent.

I wear boots, because I have bad ankles. Footwear is very personal. Regardless of what you decide, take moleskin for blisters and use it before​ you get a blister, not after.

[v_astro]

Any recommendations on a cheap one or two person tent?

[FarmerChef]

I use a tarp so can't really help you there. If you decide to try tarping you can pick up a home depot 8x10 for a song. It's "heavy" but will get the job done. My family and I hiked almost 500 miles with one before we switched over to SilNylon. Cheap tents can be had but are usually quite heavy. Perhaps some on here know of some good weight/durability/price ratios.

As far as your mileage is concerned that's quite doable. As I think you'll find, there are plenty of places to have a fire in an established ring. I start a fire almost every night while hiking in order to cook for 5 (little twigs and finger thick pieces only) and, except where prohibited, have never had a problem finding a legal place to do it. Just keep your eyes open and your mileage flexible.

Also, with regard to pace, I generally find that the first couple of days my family and I average around 2mph with breaks over a typical 18 mile day. By day 3 we get our "trail legs" and can start cruising at 3-3.5mph walking for an average of 2.5-2.75 with breaks. The key is not to go out too fast on the first day and stress out your body. Also be careful of your feet. One big tip that is worth mentioning is to buy your trail shoe (whatever you choose) one half to one full size bigger than your every day shoe. Your feet WILL swell and you'll be grateful for the extra room in the toe box (learned this lesson the hard way in PA).

[v_astro]

Picked up my used Jansport ruck from a guy off Craigslist tonight. It's old school. I love it. Reminds me of the one I had when I was in the Boy Scouts (Eagle Scout, yo!). Went to Hudson Trail Outfitters on the way back. Lots of cool toys, if only I had infinite means... Sadly, no. Picked up some DEET, a couple of bivy bags, and a makeshift pillow. Next big purchase is the tent and I'm seeing some good reviews for the ones on sale at Wal Mart. I'm totally doing this on the cheap and I can't wait to get out there and try it. Talked to my wife who's going to give me and early Father's Day present and drop me off Sunday in HP so I can have a full day of hiking. I might have to start getting ambitious. Thinking of going to Ranger Joe's to look up their MRE selection (Ham Slice #8 was always my favorite) and need to get some gaiters.

I'm like a kid at Christmas. This has literally been what I've wanted to do for the last 15+ years and I finally have a chance. Thanks for all of the advice.

[Lyle]

Regarding your tent:

Two options that meet your desires.

First is the lightweight, new option from a very reputable manufacturer:

http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/tents/SkyscapeScout.html

34oz, full bug protection, new, probably some condensation issues as plague all single wall tents. This would be my primary recommendation if you can swing it.

Second, the heavier, used, cheap, two wall option:

I have a used, old-style Sierra Designs (great company) Flashlight tent. 2-person, double wall (inner tent and outside rain fly). Heavy, but not unreasonable at 3.5 lb. Can't guarantee the floor is 100% waterproof, it is an old tent, but no rips or burns. Comes with tent, fly and poles. You would need to buy some lightweight stakes, it is not free-standing. It's been quite a few years since I've used this tent. It does have the old tent, musty smell, but I pretty much guarantee you won't notice it over your body odor when on the trail. I will set this up and take some photos for you if interested. Let me know.

Here is the offer: I'll send it to you, you set it up, use it in your back yard, use it on your trip. If you like it and want to keep it, $50 and it's yours. If you didn't care for it, or want to get something lighter, just ship it back after your trip. I'm not using it, so someone might as well.

Please, this isn't a general "for sale" offer. That may come later if I still have it.

[rafe]

+1 on the Sierra Designs Flashlight. Proven over many years on the AT.

[v_astro]

Thanks, guys. Just saw these now. Went out and blew a whopping $29 at Target for an off the shelf 2 man. It's currently set up in my backyard. Seems like it'll work just fine.

When I actually get some money, I'll buy some decent gear, but this will get me through this section hike. thanks for the offer, Lyle.

[swampsister2]

If you want to tarp tent - golite has their poncho tarp for $55 - It does double duty as a rain poncho and a tarp tent - light weight and cheap price. I have a z-pak hexamid 2 person tent - can't deal with the bugs. But that puppy was expensive and in retrospect if I had tried it first I wouldn't have purchased it. Might see you out there - gonna do basically part of that hike starting June 7th.

Sheri

[v_astro]

I'm getting dropped off the 15th and picked up the 17th. Enjoy!

I've just started assembling my gear and noted my REI air mattress looks mighty big on my ruck.

I'm no wuss, but I do enjoy the comfort of an air mattress versus the hard ground. What am I missing here? What do others do that don't take up so much space?

It's not that it's heavy, it's just huge sitting on top of my ruck.

(P.S. I fully realize how idiotic this looks... :)

27199

Thanks.

J.

[FarmerChef]

We use smaller pads ;) It's hard to get a sense of scale in that pick. Looks like an external frame Jansport but I can't tell how big it is by just looking.

[rafe]

I'm no wuss, but I do enjoy the comfort of an air mattress versus the hard ground. What am I missing here? What do others do that don't take up so much space?

Check out Thermarest pads at a shop like REI or EMS or Campmor. When inflated they're about an inch thick. They have a highly compressible foam core. Nothing at all like a swimming pool air mattress or a road-camping air mattress.

When rolled up the roll is about 3" diameter. You can get a decent "shortie" pad that weighs less than 1 lb. But not cheap. To give you an idea of the volume: it only takes about three or four lung-fulls to inflate one. In fact if you're patient enough they will mostly self-inflate.

The next cheaper option is a closed cell foam pad, material used to be called EnsoLight, Z-Lite, etc. Or the ThermaRest "RidgeCrest" pad. Very light, rugged, inexpensive, but not as comfy as the inflatable versions, and bulkier when stowed.

[Studlintsean]

Morning All,

I'm very excited to be planning a life-long ambition of beginning to hike the AT.

I've picked three days (two nights) in mid June where I'm going to attempt to hike from Harpers Ferry to Manassas Gap and have my wife pick me up in Linden, VA for the drive back to Northern Virginia.

I've picked up the PATC map of these sections and have been studying them, am doing online research, and visited the PATC HQ in Vienna, VA last night to get some advice.

A few questions if you don't mind:

1. Per my discussions with the PATC folks, they told me most of the thru hikers going northbound should be hitting Virginia right about now. He recommended going southbound to avoid the traffic. I really have my choice of going north or south in NOVA, but Harpers to Manassas Gap seemed the easiest dropping off point and picking up point from Fairfax. Is there any reason why I wouldn't want to do this route or is there a better one I'm not considering?

2. I've been looking at the distances between shelters. I don't know if I should be concerned or not. I plan on taking a 2 man tent, but I want to make sure I'll have access to water and the ability to make a fire. Not sure if I can make a fire "just anywhere." I've read it must be in designated areas, and I'm wondering if the shelter spots are the only "designated areas" along the AT in VA. If not, I have no problem pulling off to the side and making a fire in a pit, but somehow I don't think that would fly. I'm just concerned about the distances because it looks like Harpers Ferry to the Bear Den Hostel is 20.2 miles. I figure on a good day pushing it a bit I can do 15-20 miles. Is that unreasonable? Because that would involve going through the "Devil's Racecourse" in the later part of the day and that's a long stretch between the Blackburn Trail Center and Bear Den. I'm just trying to think of options I'd have. I don't want to bite off more than I can chew. Like I said, I'll have a tent and don't necessarily need to sleep at a shelter, but if anyone has a recommended plan, I'd appreciate it.

3. Baring any freak winter storms or showers, what should I expect as far as weather and clothes? I was told it'd be a little cool at night, but shorts and t-shirts should be fine for the three days I'll be out there.

4. I have a water filtration system and other items. Anything else specifically I should consider bringing?

5. Finally, as far as food is concerned, I'm former military and have no problem with MREs, but saw they are frowned upon on the AT. Aside from power bars, granola bars, water, etc., what should I consider buying for "main meals" on this short section hike?

Thanks for any advice anyone can give. I'm very excited about this as I've been looking forward to doing something like this for 15 years or so.

Best,

V.


Again i didn't read all the responses but I have done this hike many times.

1.Its a pretty aggressive hike. If you haven't done much backpacking you're gonna be exhausted. If you have, I think NB is the better hike. I would go Linden to Rod Hollow and Rod Hollow to Blackburn (or David Lesser).

2. See above.

3. I would take:

Wear: Shorts and a quick dry tee shirt.

Pack: Extra socks, long sleeve, light insulation piece, rain jacket, rain pants

4.Aqua Mira with the bottom of a water bottle ( it can run thin there and you could need a dipper)

5. 1 ramen, 2 oatmeal x 2, tortilla with cheese and salami x 2 , 1 pasta side , 2 cider x 2 , 375 whiskey , 2 snicker.

[v_astro]

Great advice. Thanks all.

[MDSection12]

On a budget, I'd consider just snagging a blue foam pad from Wal-Mart. They're ~$7 in the camping section and will keep rocks and sticks out of your back as well as keeping you warm. It's not the most comfortable solution, but sleeping pads are expensive and it may take you time to find the perfect one before you are willing to spend the money... This will get you hiking right away for a fraction of a fraction of the cost. :)

Also, when you do get your nicer pad they can be cut into sections to make perfect little sit pads. It's amazing how much warmer (not to mention drier) sitting on it is compared to the cold ground.

[MDSection12]

The blue foam pad can be cut, I mean. I don't want to be accused of telling you to cut a more expensive pad into sections. :p

[chfdwolfpack]

v_astro,

I'll be traveling through this area in early July. Any chance you could scope out any camping possibilities within a couple miles north of Dicks Dome Shelter? I had originally planned on staying there, but based on what I've read it sounds like a poor spot. Grabbing water and then tenting a little father north seems preferable. Thanks!

[v_astro]

I'll be sure to let everyone know how it goes, chfdwolfpack. I'll have to remember to come back here and give you the info you're looking for!

[MDSection12]

My max is 19 miles in a day, but I've never tried to do a 24 hour push. I like to leave something in the tank, being too sore to move in the woods sounds like a bad idea. :p

I do think I'll try a day hike MD challenge sometime soon. I'm so familiar with the section that logistics will be easy, after that it's just walking. :)

[v_astro]

My wife has agreed to drop me off early Sunday the 15th. If I start around 9 to 10 AM from HF, that will give me about 10 hours of daylight hiking.

Is it reasonable to think I can clear the Rollercoaster on that first day? To get to Bear Den looks like 20 miles from HF, with about 7 or 8 through the Rollercoaster

I'd like to either knock that part out, or do some of it. I feel like only going 12-13 on a full day the first day would be a bit of a waste.

Or, are there any spots within the Rollercoaster where I could set up camp?

(I know I'm overthinking this. It's my curse...)

[Coffee]

The northern end of the "roller coaster" is 3.9 miles north of the Bear's Den side trail so you would only have less than four miles of the roller coaster hiking from Harpers Ferry to Bears Den. I hiked Bears Den to Harpers Ferry NOBO in one day last month and my recollection is that the portion of the roller coaster north of Bears Den isn't that bad. In contrast, the ten miles of roller coaster south of Bears Den kicked my ass, but that was the end of a 22 mile day in the rain so my mood wasn't that great either.

If you are in good shape and aren't carrying too much weight, I think that HF to Bears Den in 10 hours is very reasonable. An idea: if you are driving from NVA, stop at Bears Den in the morning on the way to HF and drop off everything you won't need on the first day of hiking. Then you can hike from HF to Bears Den with minimal weight.

[johnnybgood]

v_astro,

I'll be traveling through this area in early July. Any chance you could scope out any camping possibilities within a couple miles north of Dicks Dome Shelter? I had originally planned on staying there, but based on what I've read it sounds like a poor spot. Grabbing water and then tenting a little father north seems preferable. Thanks!

Heading north keep your eyes peeled for a spur trail, on the left about a mile from "the Dome" that leads to several campsites. There is also a spring to the right and a little ways downhill and off the trail if memory serves me correctly.

[v_astro]

Well, the day is finally upon me. Tomorrow at 8 AM we set out from NOVA to HP. They'll be dropping me off at the base of Loudon Heights around 9 AM and my wife will (hopefully) be picking me up in Linden, VA around 4 or 5 on Tuesday. Really looking forward to it. If anyone will be out on the trail in that area, let me know.

V.

[Bendini]

v_astro, How was the hike?

I'm planning the same trip for this weekend and am curious to know what kind of experiences you had.

Bendini

[Anita in Maryland]

This was a great thread - esp since it's a section I could see myself doing. I hope the OP comes back with a review of what worked/what didn't.