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takethisbread
05-28-2014, 10:47
I'm right now in hospital in Lexington Virginia . dr here says I need complete removal on my left knee meniscus . I been hiking very well . I'm just short of waynesboro. dr here says hike is over. I cannot fathom that. any ideas? I've done a lot to make this hike happen. I've been hiking strong, doing 20 miles virtually every full day since Roan. a thruhiker might understand, is there a way to stabilize this thing and go on just slowly? has anyone dealt with this type of thing before ? help. I'm desperate. I don't wanna go home.


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Bobby
05-28-2014, 10:57
I'm right now in hospital in Lexington Virginia . dr here says I need complete removal on my left knee meniscus . I been hiking very well . I'm just short of waynesboro. dr here says hike is over. I cannot fathom that. any ideas? I've done a lot to make this hike happen. I've been hiking strong, doing 20 miles virtually every full day since Roan. a thruhiker might understand, is there a way to stabilize this thing and go on just slowly? has anyone dealt with this type of thing before ? help. I'm desperate. I don't wanna go home.


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well, can you walk?
just for a minute lets put what the dr. Said aside. Can you walk on the trail with a pack on? If the answer is no, then I guess the question becomes, what is it going to take for you to be able to walk on the trail with a pack on? The dr seems to think a surgery is in order....maybe second opinion is you best bet. My guess is regardless of what the future holds, you need to rest. Perhaps you should head back to mass and get another opinion while you are resting. Only you know what you can tolerate as far as discomfort and pain goes.

magneto
05-28-2014, 11:13
That really sucks. I haven't thru-hiked yet, but I do understand the disappointment of an injury preventing you from doing your hike.

Take a look at this:

http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/meniscus-tear-topic-overview

Looks like it's treatable. Get treatment and then return to the trail later - don't do permanent damage that will end your hiking career. Think of the future now - you are obviously a bone fide long distance hiker.

Good luck.

Kerosene
05-28-2014, 11:26
You must've torn it pretty darn well for them to want to remove all of it. I would think that your next step should be a second opinion; not as to whether you can resume your hike right away but as to whether they should remove your entire meniscus. Regardless, my take is that your hiking is over for this season and you will need to recuperate in some way. Bummer.

Pedaling Fool
05-28-2014, 11:31
I'm right now in hospital in Lexington Virginia . dr here says I need complete removal on my left knee meniscus . I been hiking very well . I'm just short of waynesboro. dr here says hike is over. I cannot fathom that. any ideas? I've done a lot to make this hike happen. I've been hiking strong, doing 20 miles virtually every full day since Roan. a thruhiker might understand, is there a way to stabilize this thing and go on just slowly? has anyone dealt with this type of thing before ? help. I'm desperate. I don't wanna go home.


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That sounds pretty serious. How does an injury like that happen? Maybe some can learn and avoid in the future.

Can you walk without pain?

BTW, all pains are NOT equal, there's the good pain; the pain that is indicative of weakness leaving the body. Then there is the bad pain; the pain that the body communicates to you to STOP doing what you're doing, NOW.

How would you characterize your pain?

Tuckahoe
05-28-2014, 11:38
Seems to me that this sort of advice should be coming from the Dr and the Dr providing the second opinion. When a Dr (the professional) says the hike is over, it's over. They're there to help you look after your health and wellness.

slbirdnerd
05-28-2014, 11:39
That totally sucks and I can only imagine how hard it must be to be faced with ending your hike. Read this for some inspiration: "Three Hundred Zeroes" by Dennis Blanchard:
http://threehundredzeroes.com/

saltysack
05-28-2014, 11:44
R&R maybe flip flop late sept if healed up?


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gsingjane
05-28-2014, 12:26
Dear TTB, my feedback to you is not on the medical issues because I am not a doctor and so my opinion there is worthless. However... this was my experience. About 3 years ago I had persistent pain on the outside of my right knee and could not for the life of me figure out what was wrong. I took days off, iced, strengthened, tried running on different surfaces, this that and the other. After about 3 months I gave in and went to a well-recommended orthopedist. He thought it might be a meniscus problem and ordered an MRI, which I had done. What a disaster.

The first doctor diagnosed me with "bone on bone" arthritis under my right knee cap and said my hiking, backpacking and running days were over effective as of right then. He recommended that I consider an immediate total knee replacement and warned me that I'd be in a wheelchair by that decade's end (I was 53 at the time).

After coping with a nearly suicidal depression caused by this completely unexpected diagnosis, I decided that (since getting a TKR would guarantee I'd never run again!) I decided to seek out a second opinion; this was about a year later. Well! The second orthopedist said that all he really saw on the MRI was "normal wear and tear" on the joint caused by a lifetime of activity but he saw no reason at all I could not, with time and maybe some attention to form, get back out there.

At my age, it wasn't incredibly easy, but I'm happy to say that now, 3 years later, I am back and 100% as active as I ever was (still in the process of losing ALL the flubber chubber caused by the extended break, but I'm well on my way). For two years now I have completed an extremely strenuous trail race, and I am back leading trips and backpacking with happiness and no extraordinary pain.

What I really wish is that I had sought out that second opinion sooner than I did. Not to disrespect the orthopedic profession at all, but I also learned that the same images and symptoms can lead to very different diagnoses. If I were you, that would absolutely be my second "step" here. And in the meantime, try to have faith. You might not come back exactly like you were, but you might... and in any event, all is not lost. Not at all.

The very best of luck to you,

Jane

Spirit Walker
05-28-2014, 12:46
My husband had that happen when we were attempting a second PCT thruhike. He had had meniscus surgery before, and knew the difference between normal wear and tear and a serious tear. He could barely walk and was in a lot of pain. It took 8 hours to walk the 10 miles out to the highway. We flew home where he had surgery. He has very little cartilage left in that knee, after two surgeries, but generally it doesn't give him problems. (It's his other knee, which never had obvious meniscus problems, that had to be replaced.) The healing took about a month before he could hike fairly normally, but we took it easy for the rest of the year. The following year we went back to the PCT, where his other knee took us off the trail.

I agree about seeing another doctor for a second opinion. However, I think you know whether the pain is such that you can continue to hike or not. One issue with bad osteoarthritis in the knee is that it will swell and get very painful. DH has had to have the fluid on his bad knee (the one he replaced) drained several times and when we were hiking the AT it slowed him down a lot and caused a lot of pain. He thought it worth continuing his hike, but it probably made the knee worse and hastened his need for a total replacement.

Old Grouse
05-28-2014, 12:54
Definitely get a second opinion, and even a third. Preferably from an MD at a hospital that specializes in your injury. Around NYC I'd aim for someone at Hospital for Special Surgery. It may be worth the effort both in terms of result and recovery/physical therapy time. Good luck!

Old Grouse
05-28-2014, 12:56
I don't know where you live in Massachusetts. Mass General is one of the best for orthopedics.

rocketsocks
05-28-2014, 12:58
Well that really blows Take this bread, sorry to here that. hope it works out and you can get back as soon as possible.

Berserker
05-28-2014, 13:04
Looks like it's treatable. Get treatment and then return to the trail later - don't do permanent damage that will end your hiking career. Think of the future now - you are obviously a bone fide long distance hiker.


I would think that your next step should be a second opinion; not as to whether you can resume your hike right away but as to whether they should remove your entire meniscus. Regardless, my take is that your hiking is over for this season and you will need to recuperate in some way. Bummer.
The 2 quotes above sum it up. Don't make a rash decision based on emotion that could end in permanent damage to your knee, and get a 2nd opinion. Hang it up for the year (or at least till you are healed), and get back out there for some sections or something. Life is always constantly changing, so I'm sure another opportunity will pop up to attempt a thru.

colorado_rob
05-28-2014, 13:11
You must've torn it pretty darn well for them to want to remove all of it. I would think that your next step should be a second opinion... Agree. Can't imagine a need for complete meniscus removal. Get another opinion.

I tore mine in 2007, got surgery, back hiking in 2 weeks. Zero pain after 3 weeks. Sounds like my tear was much more modest though.

I would not hike again though until you got some sort of resolution (2nd opinion, surgery).

forrest!
05-28-2014, 13:12
I had a torn meniscus about 15 years ago. Any lateral twisting of the knee caused it to swell up like a grapefruit, which put me out of commission until the swelling subsided. Had to have arthroscopic surgery to repair it. Took a couple of months to get over it and much longer than that before I was really comfortable. Now I no longer think about it, but then, I'm old, and all my joints hurt.

But only you can answer if the hike is over. If stress causes the knee to swell then going on may not be in the cards.

Vinramm
05-28-2014, 13:53
I did the same thing refereeing basketball 4 years ago,,,,,decided to forego any surgical intervention (tough guy syndrome) ended up getting UKR (unilateral knee replacement). Might want to consider the second opinion but when it comes to a weight bearing joint, think long term. I'm able to hike, climb, and do most anything within reason now. I went through the whole regime of cortisone injections and even did the Synvisc injection trying to avoid meniscus repair. Wish I had the repair done when the Orhto recommended. Choose wisely.
VR

takethisbread
05-28-2014, 14:13
thank u for all your kind words. I have sent the MRI to my orthopedist back in Boston . I await his call. he has thruhiked and is a endurance athlete so I am hopeful. the diagnosis will be from him and the solution. if it indeed is not a full tear, and I can somehow continue , I will. we shall see, I got some great pain meds, and I am hopeful. I had the injury on the other knee, and I hiked some with the injury before surgery, although consistent hiking led to extreme pain, and extreme swelling, and would be impossible in thruhiking . thank u all again.


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MDSection12
05-28-2014, 14:16
Best of luck. :)

Rolls Kanardly
05-28-2014, 14:40
I'm right now in hospital in Lexington Virginia . dr here says I need complete removal on my left knee meniscus .

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I tore my left meniscus and eventually it turned into spaghetti. The threads started moving between the joint and would drop me in pain. They removed it and later replaced my knee. It took a while to recover but the pain is gone. If your meniscus is gone your joint will start wearing down and will have to be replaced. It was too late for me to do what I found, was another option. Under certain circumstances you can replace the meniscus with one from a cadaver. I read an article about a female runner who shredded her meniscus and after recovery with a cadaver meniscus was able to run again. I have not read anything on this line for a long time but if it is available it might be something to talk over with a professional. Good luck God I feel for you. Sore knees suck. Rolls

Trance
05-28-2014, 15:25
If you have to ask this question, you already know the answer.

Stop expecting people who are not doctors to tell you it's ok to hike with a freshly torn meniscus.

It's not. You need to R.I.C.E. it and get a support sleeve at minimum. You hike more on that... especially with weight, you're going to be on the fast track to a knee replacement and that is never fun.

Praha4
05-28-2014, 15:29
You said you are desperate and do not want to end your hike. Medically, much depends on just how severe your knee meniscus is torn. If it is a minor meniscus tear, a cortisone shot in the knee would probably give you enough relief to continue hiking. If you are not using a knee brace, I would also get a Cho-Pat dual action knee brace and use it while hiking. Another possible remedy is an Orthovisc injection http://www.orthovisc.com/. It's high molecular weight hyaluronan, FDA approved for the knee, gives 6 months of relief. I just got an Orthovisc injection in my arthritic shoulder, and it has really helped with shoulder pain and improved my range of motion too. If it is a severe meniscus tear, good possibility the torn meniscus will lodge in the joint and cause you more pain and swelling of the knee. I would think only an MRI will show the degree of the problem. Good luck!

rocketsocks
05-28-2014, 15:39
Another possible remedy is an Orthovisc injection http://www.orthovisc.com/. It's high molecular weight hyaluronan, FDA approved for the knee, gives 6 months of relief. I just got an Orthovisc injection
Just had this done to both knees three weeks ago today, stats show it dose not work for everybody, but it's workin for me so far.

Teacher & Snacktime
05-28-2014, 15:48
I got some great pain meds, and I am hopeful.

Pain meds are a poor substitute for good health. I'm learning this myself, and can't stress enough that if you NEED them, stop doing whatever causes you to need them. It's not worth it in the long run, regardless of the disappointment of having to change your plans.

gof
05-29-2014, 21:21
Another possible remedy is an Orthovisc injection http://www.orthovisc.com/. It's high molecular weight hyaluronan, FDA approved for the knee, gives 6 months of relief.

Another option is Synvisc. It is the older version. Both are an anionic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anionic), nonsulfated (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfation) glycosaminoglycan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycosaminoglycan) (from Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyaluronan). For me and my insurance the Synvisc course of 3 injections on my left knee were much cheaper than the Orhovisc. YMMV.

Jury is still out for me. And, of course, my MRI only shows mild arthritis. If that is the case, why does it hurt so blinking much when I walk, especially up and down stairs or grades? sigh.

Best of luck with your knees. I wish medical science would hurry up and find a cure for aging.

handlebar
05-30-2014, 09:03
You did the right thing sending to your trusted orthopedist at home. When it comes to surgeons, "Trust, but verify" is a good idea. Do what s/he says.

FWIW, I had severe hip tendonitis (I think due to an injury in Mt. Rogers NRA) that took me off the trail for 3 weeks in May. I could barely walk and really had to dose myself with ibuprofen to make it to Partnership Shelter near Marion VA. I went home to OH and saw my primary care doc who put me on a modified RICE regimen of anti-inflammatory (600mg Ibuprofen 3 times per day), stretching, icing, and non-weightbearing exercise (bike) for two weeks. Cleared it up after 2 weeks and I was able to complete my thru hike, starting again slowly in the easier VA terrain. I had a torn meniscus repaired a couple years before starting the AT via arthroscopic surgery. Trekking poles, if you don't already use them, can offload some of the weight and wear and tear from your knees. I used Chopat knee braces for the next 1000 miles then as my leg muscles were very toned, found didn't need them any more when I left them behind where there were drying on a fire tower in NJ. I shed a little pack weight and that probably helped too. Since that episode, I've added a good 9500 miles of long distance trekking.

jeffmeh
05-30-2014, 11:02
I saw that you have sent the MRI to your orthopedist back here, and he is a thru-hiker. That should give you a different medical perspective. I was going to tell you to see an orthopedist in a sports medicine practice, but it looks like you have it covered. Orthopedists who generally see older, unfit people can have very different perspectives than those who are more focused on getting active people back to being active.

Ender
05-30-2014, 11:10
Pain meds are a poor substitute for good health. I'm learning this myself, and can't stress enough that if you NEED them, stop doing whatever causes you to need them. It's not worth it in the long run, regardless of the disappointment of having to change your plans.

Ditto this.

stillatit
05-31-2014, 20:20
Of course, every person's situation is different. My active sister was all set to have her knee replaced, even slated for surgery when she heard of a new, far less invasive procedure, a partial knee replacement. Few surgeons who specialize in the knee even know about it. She's had it done (2 weeks ago) and is already up and about walking w/o a cane. Surgeons who specialize in sports medicine have pioneered this new procedure. My point here is not to run down whatever doctor(s) is (are) helping you out, but have you looked into a second opinion here, one from a knee specialist who is associated with a medical school where all the latest is available? My sis lives in a large town/small city in central Illinois. She had to travel a ways to a city with a medical school to find someone qualified. She is ecstatic that she did now. Another relative had a knee replacement (we have bad genes for this in our family) and she's never recovered. CHECK THIS OUT BEFORE YOU GO UNDER THE KNIFE, and don't count on your current MD(s) only! My sis had to travel to one of the few surgeons who did it and have him look at her before she qualified for the procedure.

MuddyWaters
06-01-2014, 00:25
I would not entertain the idea of putting something as meaningless as completing a hike of the AT in a single trip, ahead of my long term well being and mobility. But thats just me.

You are on the right path with multiple opinions for sure.

Good luck. Hope for the best, but mentally prepare for the worst.

fiddlehead
06-01-2014, 05:27
OH PLEASE! GET A 2nd OPINION!
My brother had it all removed when he was younger.
Now, his one leg is 2" shorter than the other, has lived in pain most of his life because of this and now, finally got the whole thing replaced.
The specialists told him it's mostly because they took ALL the cartilege out when he had it done.

GO to a Specialist!
My sister had arthroscopic surgery on hers where they just cleaned things up in there and she was walking the next day.

Good luck.

WILLIAM HAYES
06-01-2014, 21:46
I worked in healthcare for 30 years and can tell you ortho guys typically want to operate-see a sports medicine specialist and get another opinion

bamboo bob
06-02-2014, 06:18
Seems to me that this sort of advice should be coming from the Dr and the Dr providing the second opinion. When a Dr (the professional) says the hike is over, it's over. They're there to help you look after your health and wellness.
Medical people for reasons of medical caution or legal caution always give the most conservative advice. Blisters? Go home for three weeks. So You need a second opinion from a Sports Medicine person who understands what this kind of thing means to you. I'll say it again, Sports Medicine anyone else doesn't get it.

Riocielo
06-07-2014, 11:53
My husband said to tell you that depending upon the severity of your injury, once the initial swelling and inflammation is gone you may be able to hike if you take the proper precautions (go slowly, wear a brace, etc. )

He was able to play basketball, golf, etc for years before he finally had surgery. Our youngest daughter tore hers ice skating last winter. So far, she too, has avoided surgery.

Most of all, use your common sense and follow your doctor's orders.

SunnyWalker
06-07-2014, 20:52
Takethisbread: Sorry to hear about your experience. I too had an injury at a bad time. I was riding my bicycle across country having a great time. In WY I had an accident and broke my ankle. Had to go home. BUT . . . next year I started from where I left off. There is next year or the time after you heal. Trust in the Lord and let Him be with you in this great disappointment. He will give you the patience to go through it. The only way through this is to go through it and you can't escape reality. Take care.

misprof
06-07-2014, 22:24
Thanks for posting. I am sitting at home resting a torn meniscus and watching my hiking this summer go down the tubes. Glad to hear your getting a second opinion. I had the arthoscopic surgery back in 81 for another problem. The recovery from it was not bad (2 weeks) A year later I was rock climbing. Remember the mountains will not disappear. Good luck