View Full Version : Large party etiquette
electronVolt
06-12-2014, 14:46
I organize an annual group hike with close friends, and this year we unfortunately have accumulated a party size of 8. We're going to do a section in the GSMNP this year with at least one night at a shelter (unfortunately) before taking a side trail to another camp.
Apart from being respectful at camp and adhering to backcountry principles and guidelines per individual, what can we do to minimize disturbance of other hikers?
For example, in past years with groups of 4-6, we have usually maintained a, what I feel is adequate, spacing of 100 yards up to almost a mile at times, but averaging around 200 yards or so.
What are special considerations that large groups like us should make?
Thanks
gsingjane
06-12-2014, 14:50
This is what I do when I lead groups of 10-12 people. First, we bring tents and don't plan to occupy the shelter. Second, when we meet others on the trail we always stand off the trail and let them pass. Third, "hiker midnight" is strictly enforced (I bring teens so maybe this isn't an issue with you). Fourth, I remind folks all the time that people don't come out to the woods to hear them scream and holler. It's okay for them to have a little fun, but if I can tell we're starting to tee people off, it's quiet time.
Other than that, I just keep a pretty good eye on people to make sure they're adhering to LNT, and also I'm sure to connect with the other hikers at the site to tell them to come talk to me if anybody in my group does something untowards.
Usually the kids in my groups tell me that some of the best parts of our overnights are meeting and talking with other hikers. I hope the other hikers feel the same way!
Jane
rocketsocks
06-12-2014, 14:55
Invite them to join the party. Other wise I think your distances are quite enough.
FarmerChef
06-12-2014, 14:56
This is what I do when I lead groups of 10-12 people. First, we bring tents and don't plan to occupy the shelter. Second, when we meet others on the trail we always stand off the trail and let them pass. Third, "hiker midnight" is strictly enforced (I bring teens so maybe this isn't an issue with you). Fourth, I remind folks all the time that people don't come out to the woods to hear them scream and holler. It's okay for them to have a little fun, but if I can tell we're starting to tee people off, it's quiet time.
Other than that, I just keep a pretty good eye on people to make sure they're adhering to LNT, and also I'm sure to connect with the other hikers at the site to tell them to come talk to me if anybody in my group does something untowards.
Usually the kids in my groups tell me that some of the best parts of our overnights are meeting and talking with other hikers. I hope the other hikers feel the same way!
Jane
Yup. This. Also, I allow the group to stretch out with faster folks up front and slower folks in the rear. This helps avoid the giant caterpillar crawling down the trail that everyone has to walk by like a receiving line. Periodically, the front stops to let the end catch up and make sure everyone is there that's supposed to be.
HooKooDooKu
06-12-2014, 15:05
we bring tents and don't plan to occupy the shelter
If one of the OP's campsites is at a shelter, then they MUST occupy the shelter (only AT thru-hikers arriving at a full shelter is allowed to tent near the shelter).
OP,
What I don't understand is this spacing you're talking about. Whenever I go hiking in any sort of a group, part of the purpose is to socialize, so we're all going to be hiking close together so that we can chit-chat without shouting. If you're talking about spacing with other hikers, no two hikers hike at the same speed (unless they are part of a group). So you're going to be passing other hikers and not pacing them from a fixed distance.
So in that respect, I don't see a difference between 2 or 8 people hiking together... you're all a part of a group so you stay in a group.
Beyond that, it will be polite (whether at camp or on the trail) to keep your voices down and not get boisterous. That seems to be something that naturally occurs with larger groups. If you keep that in check, it sounds like you've already got things well in hand for a group.
The only problem will be if you attempt to allow the group to grow any larger. Maximum party size in GSMNP is 8. It requires special permission to hike in a group larger than 8.
HooKooDooKu
06-12-2014, 15:08
Yup. This. Also, I allow the group to stretch out with faster folks up front and slower folks in the rear. This helps avoid the giant caterpillar crawling down the trail that everyone has to walk by like a receiving line. Periodically, the front stops to let the end catch up and make sure everyone is there that's supposed to be.
To me, it's nicer to pull over once to allow 8 people to pass, than to pause 4 to 8 times to allow a strung out group to pass. So to me, it would seem best to try to keep everyone in either one group, or spread out to no more than 3 groups (slow, medium, fast).
electronVolt
06-12-2014, 15:11
First, we bring tents and don't plan to occupy the shelter. Second, when we meet others on the trail we always stand off the trail and let them pass. Third, "hiker midnight" is strictly enforced (I bring teens so maybe this isn't an issue with you).
We would much prefer to not occupy the shelters, and the ATC's website recommends this practice as well, but isn't it park policy that we have to stay in the shelter?
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electronVolt
06-12-2014, 15:25
If one of the OP's campsites is at a shelter, then they MUST occupy the shelter (only AT thru-hikers arriving at a full shelter is allowed to tent near the shelter).
OP,
What I don't understand is this spacing you're talking about. Whenever I go hiking in any sort of a group, part of the purpose is to socialize, so we're all going to be hiking close together so that we can chit-chat without shouting. If you're talking about spacing with other hikers, no two hikers hike at the same speed (unless they are part of a group). So you're going to be passing other hikers and not pacing them from a fixed distance.
Well, we lunch and snack together, enjoy major landmarks together, and camp together, but there are usually a variety of walking speeds in our group so the spacing is a natural occurrence. The leaders intermittently wait for everyone to group up again before resuming, and everyone has at least one person with them while on the move.
Also, not that it carries any weight, but we're all adults. Our noise level in the past has been effortlessly minimal, but I can see how a group of 8 could get unintentionally loud. I'll keep this in mind.
but isn't it park policy that we have to stay in the shelter?
yes.......unless you're a thru hiker, then if you stay at a Park's shelter----you have to stay inside the shelter........
HooKooDooKu
06-12-2014, 16:22
We would much prefer to not occupy the shelters, and the ATC's website recommends this practice as well, but isn't it park policy that we have to stay in the shelter?
To rephrase TNhiker's reply...
In GSMNP, when your campsite is at a shelter, everyone must occupy the shelter. The ONLY exception is for registered AT-Thru hikers... and only if they arrive at a shelter and it is full.
Basically, the way it (is supposed to) work is that General Backpackers have a reserved spot at a given shelter on a given night. But AT-Thru hikers are not required to be at particular AT shelters on specific nights. That means on any given night, AT-Thru hikers might possibly over-fill a shelter. When that happens, the over-fill is allowed to tent near the shelter.
gsingjane
06-13-2014, 13:57
Howdy again Electron, I'm sorry that I didn't read your initial post carefully enough. I have no experience leading groups in the GSMNP and I would absolutely defer to the people who do. When I lead groups elsewhere (where there is nothing compulsory about staying in a shelter or not doing so) I always bring tents because, first, I'm not going to take over an entire shelter with my group, and second, what if there are people there already? If I have to shelter 10 people without a shelter or a tent that's going to get challenging.
I am sure YMMV, but on the basis of some very hard-won experience I don't let my groups get separated anymore. The only exceptions have come the few times when I've had an injured hiker who was still capable of hiking, just very slowly, and I had my co-leader bring the rest of the group (together) into camp. I do put my slowest hiker in the front and frankly, I'm not worried about whether the people who could go faster are going to get frustrated. That's their problem. Even on a very easy to follow trail like the AT, in my view there are just too many possibilities for missed communications, connections and other problems that arise when you start letting people hike in smaller groups. As I say anybody can do what they want, and certainly if you had a group of experienced people you might do otherwise, but in contrast to how I led when I started, I no longer let any groups get strung out.
I hope you guys have a wonderful time!
Jane
Get off the AT and you can tent. Much more versatile for a larger group. I defer to the Smokies experts for more detailed info.
GSMNP is a can of worms and I will leave that to those who have more experience ther with groups. I have lead many groups on the AT and other trails, and I always try to spreadout into slow, medium and fast groups and spread the tents out when we get to camp. This minimizes impact on the site as well as on the trail. I tell kids that uphill hikers have the right of way, and they (the kids in my group) should step off as that is the polite thing to do any other tie as well. Also, limit the hourseplay and noise on the trail and in camp to a reasonable level. Shelters are off limits if we stay near one as they are more for individuals or small (2-3) groups. If you are talking about a group of 8, I would recommend staying in the vicinity of the shelters to minimize human waste (use the privy) and other impacts. Since you are all adults, these "restrictions" should be easy to live with. I am heading out with 3 adults and 4 teens next week and this is how we are dealing with the issues.