View Full Version : How far do you think it's okay to 'skip'?
Ricky&Jack
06-13-2014, 09:44
In situations such as a thru-hike of the A.T., many, many people hitch a ride into town for stores etc. Do you have to get dropped off at the same pickup point, to still count as a thru?
Or can you get picked up at (point A)..... get a ride to the store..... and then get dropped off at (point B)?
Or if you get picked up at (point A), in order for it to be a thru-hike, you must return to (point A) to continue?
Here's a cr@ppy diagram I made.
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/5/3/8/5/4/screen_shot_2014-06-13_at_9.24.58_am_thumb.png (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=59880)
Is there a set number of miles you are "okay" to bypass to still be a thru? Like, if point A and B are 5miles apart, is that still okay?
Or do you just keep your mouth shut, and not tell anyone you did it?
**EDIT: you may need to click the image to view it in the W.B. Gallery**
its a "hyoh" kinda thing........
people have their own versions of what constitutes a thru......
some are purists----where if you get dropped off at point a, get back on a point a........
same with campsite-----out the same way you came in....
other people have a different version and dont mind skipping some parts-----bottom line, is if they went from springer to katahdin----they did a thru.....
HYOH.....
This is a can of worms with not correct answer.
It depends solely on what YOU decide is acceptable.
Some folks will swear that in order to be a thru-hiker, you have to walk EVERY inch of the official AT and pass every single white blaze.
Other folks will say, as long as you start at Springer, end at Katadin, are self-propelled, and basically follow the AT corridor, that you are a thru-hiker.
Both camps generally allow variations for flip-flops and the like.
Some folks claim a thru-hike has to be completed in one calendar year, others define it as any 12 consecutive month period.
Some claim you cannot interrupt your hike for more than a week, others will allow a two month break.
Some folks are adamant that THEIR definition is the correct one and only one that counts and they get downright angry if someone uses a different definition and still calls themselves a "Thru-Hiker".
Understand now why the ATC never adopted or attempted to define it? Very smart on their part.
My take? Who cares. I have no intention of requesting 2000 miler status when I finish the trail. If I ever do a thru-hike, I will determine the criteria that is important to me and not worry or argue about what others think.
pafarmboy
06-13-2014, 10:05
It's pretty simple. If you skipped something....you skipped something.
Ricky&Jack
06-13-2014, 10:06
oh wow. thanks. I actually didn't even consider so many possibilities of definition. thanks.
This is the most contentious topic of all, the question of "purity." The only formal definition from ATC can be found here:
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/about-the-trail/2000-milers/2000-miler-application
I suspect that the majority of thru hikers and section hikers don't meet that definition. But in truth, it only matters to you and your conscience. There is no enforcement of the ATC requirement. Anyone can apply for the certificate and patch.
Having said that -- in my opinion, hiking with Jack doesn't give you license to skip those chunks of trail where Jack isn't welcome. Again if we're going by what the ATC says -- they'll tell you to leave Jack at home.
You're the only one who can answer this question. Not any of us. It only matters how far you think is too far. If you think skipping nothing is the only way to do a thru hike, then do that. If you think skipping a section is OK, then do that. And don't let anyone else tell you how to do your thru hike. It's yours, define it how you want, not how they want.
There is no "correct" answer and I don't really care what others define as a thru hike or if they are critical of my definition.
My personal definition is that at a minimum I want to maintain a continuous line of footprints from one end of a trail to the other and I don't want to do anything that cuts the overall mileage of the trail. That obviously means no yellow blazing (skipping sections by hitching or shuttles) or aqua blazing (taking a river rather than the trail, like the Shenandoah bypassing SNP). But it would allow for a ferry across an otherwise unfordable river.
Also, any detour necessitated by safety is acceptable to me - fire closures, for example.
I have become much more open to blue blazing if it makes logical sense to do so and I am not missing anything of significant value on the main trail. Examples of blue blazing include taking one side trail to a shelter and another side trail back to the main trail or taking a scenic blue blaze trail when the main trail is less scenic. But I won't blue blaze just to save miles or to avoid a climb.
Plenty of people will disagree with my definition and I will disagree with others but ultimately this really is a matter of "hike your own hike".
Ricky&Jack
06-13-2014, 10:18
I didn't realize I was opening a can of worms.
But after seeing your answers, I can see why.
It's a can of worms that shouldn't be a can of worms. A bunch of people tend to get fired up, thinking that others should hike the trail the way they hiked the trail. Don't let them do that. Hike how you need to hike.
HooKooDooKu
06-13-2014, 10:27
About the only thing that hiking the full AT qualifies you for is to be officially recognized as an "Appalachian Trail 2000-Miler". There's an official application form (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/docs/default-document-library/2011/04/17/2000%20Miler%20Application.pdf) that states...
ATC assumes that those who apply have made an honest effort to walk the entire Trail, even if they did not walk past every white blaze
So it would seem that if limits on transportation cause you to skip some small part of the trail, you are still allowed to apply for the 2000-Miler Club.
But again, you might ask "how much is too much"? The only logical answer I can come up with is that since it is called the 2,000 Miler Club, and the AT has about 2,184 miles, if you skip less than 184 miles of the AT, you can still apply for the 2,000 Miler Club.
I have become much more open to blue blazing if it makes logical sense to do so and I am not missing anything of significant value on the main trail. Examples of blue blazing include taking one side trail to a shelter and another side trail back to the main trail or taking a scenic blue blaze trail when the main trail is less scenic. But I won't blue blaze just to save miles or to avoid a climb.
Plenty of people will disagree with my definition and I will disagree with others but ultimately this really is a matter of "hike your own hike".
I think this is a key point. Our definitions may well change once we get some experience or once we figure out why we are hiking. As in all your AT planning, flexibility will be one of your biggest assets if you wish to complete your hike.
Go ahead, set your criteria, but don't be completely opposed to altering them when you find out what is important to you, or what is necessary for the "greater good" of completing your goal. Maybe you will decide that you need to tighten your definition if that becomes important to you. It's your hike. The most critical thing is that you enjoy it.
This threads always remind me of an algebraic equation. It is too early in the morning on a Friday, and I have not had my coffee fully yet, to concentrate fully. :)
In the real world, as opposed to the very small and, truth be told, insignificant culture of long distance hikers, people would laugh about:
If your hike in invalidated because you went in one trail to the campsite and came out the other
If your hike is invalidated because you hitched from the trail but someone dropped you 200 ft away the following day
Every sub-culture has their quirks, though.
People who climb 14ers will argue about if is you had not hiked at 3000' gain (https://14ers.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3520&sid=7052d1fd576f0c13c7983806b3545e8e), have you really hiked the mountain?
Scrabble players argue about what is the correct dictionary
And many die hard baseball fans still lament the American League using a designated hitter.
why would you want to skip a section ? when get off the trail to go into towns or whatever you go back to point you stopped and continue, but if you did skip a section as long as you go back and do the section you skipped at one point or another would be fine, you would still be considered a 2000 miler but not a thru-hiker, but NO YELLOW BLAZING yellow blazers are shunned by their AT counter parts, and yes it is a HYOH sorta thing, but their are a couple unwritten rules a hiker should abide by.
Here we go.
Because it's his hike, not yours, and he may need to skip a section for any countless of reasons. And yes, he could still consider themselves a thru hiker. You may not, but your opinion doesn't matter, only his does.
The only, only, actual definition that's been written down by any organization is the 2000 miler award by the ATC, and even that has leeway for not hiking the whole trail. And that's just the award from that single organization. There is no "Thru Hiker Commission" that regulates thru hikers. It's a personal trip, they can define it however they want, regardless of if you agree with that or not.
ChinMusic
06-13-2014, 10:55
You set your own rules
You do not set rules for others
The reasons people thru hike are different. The key is to have fun. Also, the trail does often get rerouted due to acts of nature. In addition, certain areas have been confusing over the years in the fashion they are marked. This is certainly true in the whites. An individual may fully feel they are on the AT when in fact have ventured off. I feel it is hike your own hike. Another factor is safety and age. We lost a hiker in Maine this year, we've lost hikers in the past.
My thinking on this matter has changed over the years. My own feeling is to have fun and to do it to the best of your ability, leaving as little a trace behind as possiable. Hiking is not a contest. Each individual is free to set their own goals. I try to be respectful of others goals and to not be judgemental.
Also, much of what people think is not that important. Actually I made a comment on here once about how trail running seemed silly. A comment I wish I could take back. So the hike your own hike is important. But so is how one uses the trail. As long as one does not harm the trail it is all good. And the real hero's are the people who do the maintence. The ones who give back for free. Those nameless individuals are my hero's.
rocketsocks
06-13-2014, 12:53
Also, the trail does often get rerouted due to acts of nature.
Actually I made a comment on here once about how trail running seemed silly. A comment I wish I could take back.
like the closing of the trail that leads up to Katahdin this year.
I think you just did :) take backs are allowed.
WingedMonkey
06-13-2014, 13:12
I said it before and will day it again.
"Hike your own hike", is a term coined by yellowblazers and other quitters and cheats.
ChinMusic
06-13-2014, 13:42
like the closing of the trail that leads up to Katahdin this year.
The Hunt trail is not closed.
Lone Wolf
06-13-2014, 13:53
In situations such as a thru-hike of the A.T., many, many people hitch a ride into town for stores etc. Do you have to get dropped off at the same pickup point, to still count as a thru?
Or can you get picked up at (point A)..... get a ride to the store..... and then get dropped off at (point B)?
Or if you get picked up at (point A), in order for it to be a thru-hike, you must return to (point A) to continue?
Here's a cr@ppy diagram I made.
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/5/3/8/5/4/screen_shot_2014-06-13_at_9.24.58_am_thumb.png (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=59880)
Is there a set number of miles you are "okay" to bypass to still be a thru? Like, if point A and B are 5miles apart, is that still okay?
Or do you just keep your mouth shut, and not tell anyone you did it?
**EDIT: you may need to click the image to view it in the W.B. Gallery**whatever you wanna do. it's your walk. anybody can get a patch/certificate
Ricky&Jack
06-13-2014, 13:55
I didn't really mean to start an argument etc. I was kinda just curious as to everyones personal preference.
Sorry.
Last Call
06-13-2014, 14:05
The most recognized definition of a TRUE thru-hike is starting on the Approach Trail, following each of the white blazes North to Katahdin without the benefit of wheeled vehicles. If you do hitch into town to resupply, you start back where you left the Trail. Flip-flops, jumping around all over the trail doing different sections linking them up are not true thru-hikes, they are section hikes. I could not in good conscience wear my badge if I did such a hike, and would certainly not consider myself a Thru-hiker. Hope this helps.
No need to apologize. It's just one of Whiteblaze's really ignorant arguing points. Never fails to stoke folks up.
A few more, for your future reference, are: guns on the trail, dogs in shelters, search and rescue fees, and don't ever mention the option of hammocks if a new hiker has a question about tents.
12TH Man
06-13-2014, 14:07
Anybody remember Elwood? The thru hiker? Either you walk the entire trail or you don't.
I didn't really mean to start an argument etc. I was kinda just curious as to everyones personal preference.
Sorry.
It ends up being a contentious issue anyway, on-trail and off. I know I've taken some liberties with the AT, some more justifiable than others; some that I regret, and some that I don't; some that I've since made good, and some that I never will.
It's possible I never walked the distance between Mt. Lafayette summit and Mt. Garfield summit. I don't feel too bad about it, since I've walked most of the trails in that neighborhood dozens of times (at least 15-25 traverses of the Franconia Ridge.) Similarly: I've climbed Mt. Moosilauke several times now, but it wasn't until a couple of summers ago that I did the AT ascent from Glencliff.
I walked the Sherbourne Trail over to the Inn at the Long Trail. Years later I made that up with a day hike loop, up the AT and back down via the Sherbourne. In Shenandoah, I deliberately walked a few miles of the Parkway, just to see what that was about. I walked the "old AT" into Monson. Near Woods Hole (VA) we walked on logging roads for a day or two. No regrets.
Other minor transgressions made far from home (eg. between Springer and Damscus) I'll just have to live with -- I doubt very much I'll ever patch 'em up. I walked the approach trail from Amicalola, but there's no "extra credit" for that -- as far as the purists are concerned, those miles don't count.
Flip-flops, jumping around all over the trail doing different sections linking them up are not true thru-hikes, they are section hikes.
ATC only recognizes "2000 miler" and specifically states that direction doesn't matter. ATC doesn't make any distinction between section hikers and thru hikers.
Ricky&Jack
06-13-2014, 14:29
I'm a little bummed nobody complimented me on the awesome diagram I made.
27401
I'm a little bummed nobody complimented me on the awesome diagram I made.
27401
I made one almost exactly like it years ago here on WB, the only diff being that it was a shelter instead of a Walmart.
Eg. Kirkridge shelter in PA, which is a bit off the trail, and has both a north and south access path.
Ricky&Jack
06-13-2014, 14:33
well then I genuinely suck at the search feature.
I was thinking about that with shelters as well. But I thought that was a little less controversial, because you are still walking with feet on the ground. I would never have debated that.
Pedaling Fool
06-13-2014, 14:35
I didn't really mean to start an argument etc. I was kinda just curious as to everyones personal preference.
Sorry.It's either arguing on this thread or arguing on another thread... Hikers ain't happy unless they're bitchin':)
As for how much trail to miss, it doesn't matter anymore today, since hiking is so damn easy with all the support by all the services, trail feeds, "trail angels"... and super lightweight gear.
well then I genuinely suck at the search feature.
I was thinking about that with shelters as well. But I thought that was a little less controversial, because you are still walking with feet on the ground. I would never have debated that.
You might not, but some would.
12TH Man
06-13-2014, 14:41
I jump in with a dose of humility, believe it or not. As a wannabe thru who has bad knees and an orthopaedic who wont
install a new knee before my attempt, only after.
As someone who shuttles along the trail. I pickup in Luray to take back to trailhead and 5 times out of 10 they will ask to
go to Front Royal or even Harpers Ferry. These hikers still consider themselves thru.
Last Call
06-13-2014, 14:44
[ I pickup in Luray to take back to trailhead and 5 times out of 10 they will ask to
go to Front Royal or even Harpers Ferry. These hikers still consider themselves thru.[/QUOTE]
NOT entitled to a badge!
Denied.
Ricky&Jack
06-13-2014, 14:45
how far of a skip is that?
Lone Wolf
06-13-2014, 14:46
i saw dozens of hikers walkin' the creeper trail out of damascus this year. they miss about 13 AT miles
how far of a skip is that?
You need to get yourself an AT data book so you can look these things up.
Luray (Thornton Gap) - mile 928 from Springer
Front Royal -- mile 956
Harpers Ferry -- mile 1009
i saw dozens of hikers walkin' the creeper trail out of damascus this year. they miss about 13 AT miles
One of my many transgressions, for which I have no regrets. Was it really 13 miles? All I recall, it was a very pleasant and enjoyable diversion, thanks for suggesting it.
ChinMusic
06-13-2014, 14:56
One of my many transgressions, for which I have no regrets. Was it really 13 miles? All I recall, it was a very pleasant and enjoyable diversion, thanks for suggesting it.
The one and ONLY time that I didn't hike the Creeper Trail was on my thru. Unless I was a purist there is no way I would not take the Creeper.
how far of a skip is that?
About 28 miles to skip the northern district of SNP and that would be a shame since it would omit my favorite campsite in SNP.
12TH Man
06-13-2014, 15:02
Rosie Ruiz probably wishes she had stayed off the subway.
You need to get yourself an AT data book so you can look these things up.
or google and come up with something like this........
http://www.atdist.com/
Ricky&Jack
06-13-2014, 15:14
or google and come up with something like this........
http://www.atdist.com/
Thank you. I had no idea that existed. I was looking it up in my 2013 thru guide. But I didn't know Luray was thornton gap, so I was lost looking it up.
I bookmarked your link. thanks
I had no idea that existed.
remember.........google is your friend.........
About 28 miles to skip the northern district of SNP and that would be a shame since it would omit my favorite campsite in SNP.
Hush...don't go telling people about good semi-secret camp spots. :)
remember.........google is your friend.........
Freaking google knows more about you than your spouse or closest friends, most likely....
I've known some folks who go so far as to make sure they start again from the same side of the road as where they stopped. Stop hiking on the south side of the road, have to start again on the south side, no matter what traffic conditions might be.
I don't skip chunks of trail for shortcuts, and I go back to the same road crossing as I left on the previous hike, but worrying about which side of the road is way too anal for me.
The most recognized definition of a TRUE thru-hike is starting on the Approach Trail, following each of the white blazes North to Katahdin without the benefit of wheeled vehicles. If you do hitch into town to resupply, you start back where you left the Trail. Flip-flops, jumping around all over the trail doing different sections linking them up are not true thru-hikes, they are section hikes. I could not in good conscience wear my badge if I did such a hike, and would certainly not consider myself a Thru-hiker. Hope this helps.
The Approach Trail is not part of the AT.
One doesn't have to go north to complete a thru, many do it SOBO.
A Thru-Hike is defined by the ATC: http://www.appalachiantrail.org/hiking/thru-section-hiking/faqsHOW DOES THE ATC DEFINE THRU-HIKING?We define a thru-hike as a hike of the entire Appalachian Trail in 12 months or less.
NOBO, SOBO, Flip, skip and then go back to complete in the same year all meet the ATC's definition.
Of course you can define it for yourself any way you want.
12TH Man
06-13-2014, 15:36
Hey Ricky,
Find ChinMusic's video of his Katahdin summit on his 2013 thru.
Guy looks like some biker from Hell.
Seemed to be a bit choked up; nay teary.
Maybe because he had just hiked the entire AT. Entire.
The AT, I believe, is what you make of it. Cheat the Trail; Cheat yourself.
FlyPaper
06-13-2014, 15:46
To those who say HYOH, sure. Each can choose what he wants, but at some point we have to decide what we mean when we say "thru-hike".
This can be an interesting discussion and doesn't have to be hostile.
If I meet someone on the trail who skips from Hot Springs to Damascus planning to proceed to Maine and return to make up the missed section next year, he can call himself whatever he wants. If I ask him if he's thru-hiking and he tells me yes, but subsequently reveals he missed a large section, I'm going to wish him luck and we'll get along fine.
But if someone else ask me later, "was that guy you were talking to a thru-hiker?" I'm going to answer "no", or "almost". In my mind, I see him as a long distance hiker who is enjoying his hike, but not a thru-hiker.
Since I have a definition of a thru-hiker and have recognized that there are some potential ambiguities, this becomes an interesting topic. If I pass someone on the trail and he says he is "thru-hiking", that creates a perception in my mind. We're all out hiking our own hikes, including this so called thru-hiker. When someone tells me he is "thru-hiking", I expect that to mean something other than just some guy is hiking his own hike.
In situations such as a thru-hike of the A.T., many, many people hitch a ride into town for stores etc. Do you have to get dropped off at the same pickup point, to still count as a thru?
Or can you get picked up at (point A)..... get a ride to the store..... and then get dropped off at (point B)?
Or if you get picked up at (point A), in order for it to be a thru-hike, you must return to (point A) to continue?
Here's a cr@ppy diagram I made.
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/5/3/8/5/4/screen_shot_2014-06-13_at_9.24.58_am_thumb.png (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=59880)
Is there a set number of miles you are "okay" to bypass to still be a thru? Like, if point A and B are 5miles apart, is that still okay?
Or do you just keep your mouth shut, and not tell anyone you did it?
**EDIT: you may need to click the image to view it in the W.B. Gallery**
Guy looks like some biker from Hell.
Seemed to be a bit choked up; nay teary.
Maybe because he had just hiked the entire AT. Entire.
Doing a thru hike is a blessing and a privilege -- not everyone has the means or opportunity. I have nothing but admiration (and a touch of envy) for those who've done one. I have no less admiration for those "2000 milers" who have taken the trouble to piece together the AT, any way they can.
If there's a distinction to be made, I'd do it this way: some walk the AT, pure and "thru" and never set foot on it again. Others regard the AT as a central thread that ties together a lifetime of walking in the mountains and woods. In case anyone has to guess, I'm in the latter group.
I usually can't keep it up for more than a couple of hundred feet - then I just start walking again.
[IQUOTE=Ricky&Jack;1885449]In situations such as a thru-hike of the A.T., many, many people hitch a ride into town for stores etc. Do you have to get dropped off at the same pickup point, to still count as a thru?
Or can you get picked up at (point A)..... get a ride to the store..... and then get dropped off at (point B)?
Or if you get picked up at (point A), in order for it to be a thru-hike, you must return to (point A) to continue?
Here's a cr@ppy diagram I made.
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/5/3/8/5/4/screen_shot_2014-06-13_at_9.24.58_am_thumb.png (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=59880)
Is there a set number of miles you are "okay" to bypass to still be a thru? Like, if point A and B are 5miles apart, is that still okay?
Or do you just keep your mouth shut, and not tell anyone you did it?
**EDIT: you may need to click the image to view it in the W.B. Gallery**[/QUOTE]
Seems incontrovertible that thru hiking is an evolving paradigm.
The ATC's award is as well, but to a exiguous degree.
Hope that clears things up.
Seems incontrovertible that thru hiking is an evolving paradigm.
The ATC's award is as well, but to a exiguous degree.
Hope that clears things up.
The reward is what you put into it. Nothing more and nothing less.
As for the patch and certificate: That, and a token, will get you a ride on the subway.
Last Call
06-13-2014, 16:44
Seems incontrovertible that thru hiking is an evolving paradigm.
The ATC's award is as well, but to a exiguous degree.
Hope that clears things up.
See post #23, I thought I made it perfectly clear.
I would consider a thru-hiker as one who walked the whole distance from Springer to Katahdin. If you don't walk the whole way, that's your business. I know plenty of folks who claim, and reported, to have thru-hiked and didn't.
It's sorta like saying you graduated from college but only attended a few classes.
FlyPaper
06-13-2014, 16:57
I would consider a thru-hiker as one who walked the whole distance from Springer to Katahdin. If you don't walk the whole way, that's your business. I know plenty of folks who claim, and reported, to have thru-hiked and didn't.
It's sorta like saying you graduated from college but only attended a few classes.
If they skipped hundreds of miles, then a claim to have thru-hiked is basic dishonesty.
But to those who skip a mile here and their, I just can't understand that. Sure, we all hike our own hike, but why set out to thru-hike, say you're thru-hiking and then skip a mile here or there? You save 20 or 30 minutes over 6 months. Then every time you tell someone you thru-hiked, there's this little asterisk that pops up in your mind.
Did marathon runner ever run 26.1 miles and then stop and feel like they completed the marathon?
Note: I'm not writing specifically to Grampie because I think he's already of the same mindset. Just seemed like a convenient post from which to inject my 2 cents.
But to those who skip a mile here and their, I just can't understand that. Sure, we all hike our own hike, but why set out to thru-hike, say you're thru-hiking and then skip a mile here or there? You save 20 or 30 minutes over 6 months. Then every time you tell someone you thru-hiked, there's this little asterisk that pops up in your mind.
Oh I've got a few asterisks for sure. :)
To answer your question, there are loads of reasons one might skip a mile here and there. Face it, the AT gets a bit repetitious and boring at times. Some of the side trails (eg. the Creeper Trail) are far more pleasant and interesting than the official route. The official route is a massive compromise hammered out over decades by armies of lawyers and property owners. It wasn't chosen first and foremost for its scenic beauty.
It was monsoon season when my hiking partner and I walked around VA 608 to VA 606. Streams were overflowing, the trail was a soggy mess. We chose to walk logging roads for some relief from all that. No regrets! The view from a logging road often beats the view from the green tunnel.
Example #2 might be walking the Parkway instead of the trail in SNP. Same logic. You're likely to get better views from the Parkway, and in any case, for much of SNP, the trail and the Parkway are just yards apart. If I have to listen to the cars and motorcycles, why shouldn't I at least avail myself to their views?
If it's just a few minutes or a few miles out of six months hiking -- why do the purists often avoid the approach trail?
StubbleJumper
06-13-2014, 17:18
This is a silly subject. People should go out west to do a few long distance hikes. There are alternate routes, forest fire detours, and all kinds of great side trips. Nobody worries about purity or definitions. Mostly I just say that I walked from point A to point B over the course of XX days, and it was a fabulous experience. And frankly, who the hell cares what anyone else thinks about your fabulous experience? It's your experience and only yours. In the off season you fall asleep dreaming about the places you've walked and you reflect upon them wistfully when you are stuck in traffic. The handful of miles that you skip, detour or alternate never appear in your dreams.
I didn't understand the whole patch thing until I watched "Sons of Anarchy".
My take away was that it once you are are a full patch member of "the club", it doesn't rally matter what you did to get it. But getting a patch matters a great deal.
Question: Do I need to sew mine on my hiking Gortexes, or would it be acceptable to put it on my pack?
garlic08
06-13-2014, 17:30
I'm sorry, but if you skip a few miles hitching back out of town a different way, you have not hiked the AT by my standard. But you know what? That's OK! I saw a group doing that at Monson and it didn't bother me. But I just wondered why. The AT is a beautiful walk. It takes some effort to get out there. So why cheat yourself by missing parts of it? And as said above, there just might always be that asterisk in your mind. I did not want that asterisk.
Plus, I get to feel slightly superior--mwaa haa haa.:)
bamboo bob
06-13-2014, 17:43
"And many die hard baseball fans still lament the American League using a designated hitter.[/QUOT
Wow! Great Idea Mags. Designated Hiker! I wish I had thought of that 10,000 miles ago!
I think we could benefit from a specific example (see the attached image). In SNP, hikers have the opportunity to visit the summit of Hawksbill Mountain, which at 4,050 feet is the highest point in the park. Personally, I think that it would be silly to miss this on a AT thru hike or section hike. But if you are hiking the AT, you have to take a blue blaze in order to see it. Assuming a NOBO hike, you can:
1. From the AT, take the Salamander Trail to the summit and then backtrack to the AT.
2. From the AT, take the Salamander Trail to the summit and then continue on the Lower Hawksbill Trail and rejoin the AT.
3. Skip the summit entirely.
From a purist perspective, options 1 and 3 keeps the hike "legit". All of the AT is covered. A purist would say that option 2 disqualifies the hiker from claiming to have thru hiked or completed the section even though (a) the hiker has not cut any mileage from the trek (and probably added a small amount, I'm not certain), (b) the hiker gains and loses more elevation than if he had stuck with the official AT, and (c) a continuous line of footprints has still been maintained ... the hiker is still walking from the start to the finish.
I admit that on my section hike I opted for #1 because I had it in my mind that option 2 would be cheating. But after reflecting on it, I don't think it would be cheating because the detour was not taken to make things easier, there were no gaps in the hike, and the scenery would be an improvement over the official AT.
Think of it another way: What if a hiker is pressed for time and has to make this decision? A purist would opt for #3 to save time because #1 would probably take an extra 45 minutes to an hour, but he could likely have taken option #2 and only spent a small amount of additional time on the trail. So in this situation a purist would deprive himself of a nice side trip.
It is perfectly fine with me if a purist wants to keep things pure but I don't think someone who takes blue blazes that are harder, more scenic, and not intended to avoid exertion is cheating at all. Or if this is "cheating", it's a totally different type of "cheating" than missing entire sections by yellow blazing.
27412
Coffee: I'm addressing your last paragraph only. Just a nit pick.
But I want to ask you this: If reduction-of-effort is a disqualifier, why do purists shrug off the approach trail?
And how about reduction of discomfort, or physical risk?
Some of the arguments seem to go, "If you haven't suffered as much as me, you're a phony."
Rafe, I'm only referring to my own personal definition rather than what I would suggest for someone else. In my mind, if I detour off the AT just to avoid exerting effort then I'm taking a shortcut in order to avoid some possible discomfort. If I take a detour that is equivalent or harder in order to see something that I wouldn't see from the AT, I feel like that is being done for the "right reason".
As for the approach trail, I'm not sure why it is even controversial. It isn't part of the AT. I've never hiked in Georgia and I would like to hike the approach trail but it isn't part of the AT, so I'm not sure why there is any controversy around it at all.
Okay someone tell me to shut up already.
Let's say you lose the trail quite unintentionally. Happens to the best of us.
Are you obliged to find your way back to the point-of-departure and continue from there? Or is it OK take the most expedient route back to the trail, in the desired direction (at the risk of missing a chunk?)
I'm sure this happens to PCT and CDT hikers all the time, and it happened to many of the early AT thru-hikers.
Last Call
06-13-2014, 18:20
For the life of me I have never understood why anyone would NOT hike the Approach Trail. Being chauffeured up the top of Springer Mountain just seems silly, and there is great tradition to hiking it. After all, the first AT shelter is right behind the visitors center, it's on all the maps & all that.
As for the approach trail, I'm not sure why it is even controversial. It isn't part of the AT. I've never hiked in Georgia and I would like to hike the approach trail but it isn't part of the AT, so I'm not sure why there is any controversy around it at all.
It's the difference between goal and process orientation. Approach trail is entirely consistent with the process, but not the goal.
squeezebox
06-13-2014, 18:22
I used to race bicycles.
To me this argument sounds like a group of bicycle racers discussing , Did you shave your legs before or after breakfast??
I haven't done a thru-hike but I've hiked the trail when I had to go around a section because of a forest fire. I've hiked detours (around a dam somewhere), though I think the detour is now considered the official trail. What are you supposed to do when you come to a closed part of the trail. STOP HIKING?:eek:
I didn't understand the whole patch thing until I watched "Sons of Anarchy".
My take away was that it once you are are a full patch member of "the club", it doesn't rally matter what you did to get it. But getting a patch matters a great deal.
Question: Do I need to sew mine on my hiking Gortexes, or would it be acceptable to put it on my pack?
In order for it to count, you must sew it directly to your skin, otherwise you are cheating the patch.:)
There is no "correct" answer and I don't really care what others define as a thru hike or if they are critical of my definition.
My personal definition is that at a minimum I want to maintain a continuous line of footprints from one end of a trail to the other and I don't want to do anything that cuts the overall mileage of the trail. That obviously means no yellow blazing (skipping sections by hitching or shuttles) or aqua blazing (taking a river rather than the trail, like the Shenandoah bypassing SNP). But it would allow for a ferry across an otherwise unfordable river.
Also, any detour necessitated by safety is acceptable to me - fire closures, for example.
I have become much more open to blue blazing if it makes logical sense to do so and I am not missing anything of significant value on the main trail. Examples of blue blazing include taking one side trail to a shelter and another side trail back to the main trail or taking a scenic blue blaze trail when the main trail is less scenic. But I won't blue blaze just to save miles or to avoid a climb.
Plenty of people will disagree with my definition and I will disagree with others but ultimately this really is a matter of "hike your own hike".
This is very close to my self imposed rules.
Okay someone tell me to shut up already.
Let's say you lose the trail quite unintentionally. Happens to the best of us.
Are you obliged to find your way back to the point-of-departure and continue from there? Or is it OK take the most expedient route back to the trail, in the desired direction (at the risk of missing a chunk?)
I'm sure this happens to PCT and CDT hikers all the time, and it happened to many of the early AT thru-hikers.
As someone who hiked the PCT in a heavy snow year, I can tell you that being on the trail is highly optional.
Would it still count if one were to have an uncontroversial, legitimate reason to take a detour, like the cheese stored in one's dog pack goes bad and clogs the chamber of one's gun? If one did the approach trail?
I haven't done a thru-hike but I've hiked the trail when I had to go around a section because of a forest fire. I've hiked detours (around a dam somewhere), though I think the detour is now considered the official trail. What are you supposed to do when you come to a closed part of the trail. STOP HIKING?:eek:
The ATC website addresses that too:
[*=left]In the event of a trail closure or a safety hazard (such as a swollen stream, a forest fire, or an impending storm on an exposed ridge) hikers may take alternate routes (including by vehicle) and still receive official 2,000-miler recognition.
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/about-the-trail/2000-milers/2000-miler-application
The ATC's definition of what constitutes a thru-hike or section hike is on their site. I'll go by their definition.
ChinMusic
06-13-2014, 20:49
This is very close to my self imposed rules.
Mine too, but I was anal enough to walk out the same way I walked to a shelter. One of my buddies thought that was so stupid that he would try to trick me every chance he had. He did quit trying to trick me in Maine, "too close to the end".
FTR, I don't think taking a diff blue blaze out of a shelter means squat. I have no logical reason for worrying about it.
Lone Wolf
06-13-2014, 21:34
For the life of me I have never understood why anyone would NOT hike the Approach Trail. Being chauffeured up the top of Springer Mountain just seems silly, and there is great tradition to hiking it. After all, the first AT shelter is right behind the visitors center, it's on all the maps & all that.
that shelter wasn't there in the 80s and 90s when i walked. the approach trail was not a "tradition". there were no shuttle services then. taxis didn't go up FS 42. the AT starts on springer mtn.
ChinMusic
06-13-2014, 21:37
I hiked the Approach Trail because I wanted to. It is NOT a part of the AT and I sensed no "tradition" from my fellow hikers.
Some hike it, some don't. It means nothing with regards to a thru.
that shelter wasn't there in the 80s and 90s when i walked. the approach trail was not a "tradition". there were no shuttle services then. taxis didn't go up FS 42. the AT starts on springer mtn.
Philosophers Guide for 1990 talks about Amicalola, suggests that Joe "Average" Hiker does the approach trail (P. 40.) On Page 42, he lists "Approaches to Springer"; option a) is the approach trail from Amicalola, option c) is USFS 42.
Darrell did suggest getting a ride up to the campground and starting from there (avoiding the climb of the falls.)
The actual guide is divided into 9 sections, Section 1 is titled "Amicalola Falls to Hot Springs".
There's no discussion of a right or wrong way to go, but the AFSP approach is presented as the norm.
Jack Tarlin
06-13-2014, 21:57
A thru-hike has long been understood to be a single-year hike of the entire Appalachian Trail.
Please note the word "entire". This doesn't leave a lot of wriggle room, it's a very simple word and concept.
If hiking the Trail in its entirety is a goal that is important to you, I think that's tremendous.
If not hiking the Trail in its entirety is cool with you, well it's cool with me, too. It is, after all, your hike.
I think the problem is when people reconcile themselves with one of these goals, but then insist they've actually achieved another one.
Which, of course, they haven't.
The simple way to escape this predicament: Figure out what's important to you, and then go do what you have to do in order to achieve whatever your goal ends up being. Be honest to yourself and to others about what you've chosen to do; don't dwell or fret about what you didn't do, don't lie or pretend you did something you elected not to do, but instead, rejoice and be happy in what you DID do.
imscotty
06-13-2014, 22:17
Would it still count if one were to have an uncontroversial, legitimate reason to take a detour, like the cheese stored in one's dog pack goes bad and clogs the chamber of one's gun? If one did the approach trail?
JeffMeh, I presume the noncontroversial reason for the detour is to wash your soiled items in a water source and maybe take a bath while you are at it? Now should I hang my sweaty cheese in a bear bag at night or should I sleep with it in my tent?
Sarcasm the elf
06-13-2014, 22:20
You set your own rules
You do not set rules for others
+1000
I was going to reply to this thread but Chin summed it up perfectly and he used less words than I would have.
Forget about all the dissenting definitions of what a thru-hiker is. HYOH but DO NOT be dishonest about what you hiked. AND, if you are intending to apply for a 2000 mile Certificate from the ATC they have a few requirements. Here's what the ATC requires. It seems crystal clear to me. What is a 2,000-miler? A "2,000-miler" is a hiker who has walked the entire length of the Appalachian Trail and reported his or her hike completion to the Appalachian Trail Conservancy. The ATC has been keeping records of trail completions since the A.T. was first completed in 1937. ATC uses the term "2,000-miler" as a matter of tradition and convenience. When the term was coined, the A.T. was only slightly more than 2,000 miles. Its length changes every year due to relocations. In recognizing 2,000-milers, we don't consider issues such as the sequence, direction, speed or whether one carries a pack. We do expect that persons applying for inclusion in our 2,000-miler records have made an honest effort to walk the entire Trail. A 2,000-miler application form can be found here (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/ATcompletion). If you're already looking to or considering or purposefully intending to skip sections ask yourself, "are you really making an honest effort to walk the entire trail?"
Biggie Master
06-14-2014, 09:25
A lot of great thoughts and a lot of great analogies... In the end there are either hundreds of acceptable answers, or there's one correct answer. I know mine, but which answer is it for you?
HooKooDooKu
06-14-2014, 09:42
Forget about all the dissenting definitions of what a thru-hiker is. HYOH but DO NOT be dishonest about what you hiked. AND, if you are intending to apply for a 2000 mile Certificate from the ATC they have a few requirements. Here's what the ATC requires. It seems crystal clear to me. What is a 2,000-miler?
A "2,000-miler" is a hiker who has walked the entire length of the Appalachian Trail and reported his or her hike completion to the Appalachian Trail Conservancy. The ATC has been keeping records of trail completions since the A.T. was first completed in 1937. ATC uses the term "2,000-miler" as a matter of tradition and convenience. When the term was coined, the A.T. was only slightly more than 2,000 miles. Its length changes every year due to relocations. In recognizing 2,000-milers, we don't consider issues such as the sequence, direction, speed or whether one carries a pack. We do expect that persons applying for inclusion in our 2,000-miler records have made an honest effort to walk the entire Trail. A 2,000-miler application form can be found here (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/ATcompletion). If you're already looking to or considering or purposefully intending to skip sections ask yourself, "are you really making an honest effort to walk the entire trail?"
Sorry, but it isn't that clear cut. I've already provided a link directly to the form where it specifically states that they don't expect you to have "walked past every white blaze". So they are already allowing for some sort of skipping. That then puts you right back where we started. Because the only way to interpret the words above is that you never intentionally skip a section of the trail. Yet the examples given of taking a side trail to some view and returning INTENTIONALLY on a different trail so that you INTENTIONALLY skip a section of the AT would seem to disqualify you from the 2000 Miler club. But I don't think that is their intended interpretation.
Father forgive us for what we must do
You forgive us, and we'll forgive you.
We'll forgive each other till we both turn blue,
Then we'll whistle and go fishin' in heaven.
- John Prine
ChinMusic
06-14-2014, 10:36
Just as you don't tell others how to hike their hike, you don't tell the ATC what THEIR rules are. Either you play by their rules or you don't. Your choice.
Lone Wolf
06-14-2014, 12:14
too bad for most, thru-hikin' is all about the destination
Ricky&Jack
06-14-2014, 12:16
I regret making this thread.
Maybe I should have put it in humorous?
Seems clear cut to me what the ATC is saying - they expect those applying for the 2000 mile Certificate to have made an honest effort to hike the entire trail............... Much of the rest of this debate is about attempting to justify, excuse, and explain away why it's OK to intentionally skip sections and still adhere to the ATC's definition to ease the dishonest conscience although I believe the OP was asking a legitimate question.
ChinMusic
06-14-2014, 12:46
too bad for most, thru-hikin' is all about the destination
Why?
Is a marathon runner not striving for 26.2?
Seems clear cut to me what the ATC is saying - they expect those applying for the 2000 mile Certificate to have made an honest effort to hike the entire trail............... Much of the rest of this debate is about attempting to justify, excuse, and explain away why it's OK to intentionally skip sections and still adhere to the ATC's definition to ease the dishonest conscience although I believe the OP was asking a legitimate question.
I don't think that most of those who weighed in on this thread are trying to justify or excuse anything due to a dishonest conscience. When I thru hike the AT, it will be for many reasons but qualifying for the 2000 mile recognition from the ATC will be pretty low on the list. The standard is not that clear cut since it leaves room for those who "did not walk past every white blaze" but made an "honest effort". If I feel that I do not meet that standard, then I won't apply under false pretenses. As much as I think that taking certain blue blaze alternates make more logical sense, I know that part of me is too anal to actually do that on a thru hike so who knows, I may qualify down to the letter. But getting the recognition is really not what it is about for me.
I regret making this thread.
Nah, you're cool. But you only get to do it once. ;)
JumpMaster Blaster
06-14-2014, 13:25
As a very new and novice section hiker, when I was hiking south of Mount Rogers & had to turn around to make it back to camp before sundown, I took a GPS of where I stopped. A few weeks later, I went to Elk Garden and went up to about 50' past where I originally stopped, then turned back around. That day was actually about getting rid of the "leftovers".
But then again, I have OCD...HYOH.
Another Kevin
06-14-2014, 15:05
People who climb 14ers will argue about if is you had not hiked at 3000' gain (https://14ers.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3520&sid=7052d1fd576f0c13c7983806b3545e8e), have you really hiked the mountain?
I dunno. But in the Catskills, riding up Hunter on the chairlift is cheating, even though it takes you only half way. :)
Not that it matters. People who can do Friday, Balsam Cap, Rocky and Lone aren't going to skip a cakewalk like Hunter.
shakey_snake
06-15-2014, 00:19
Skipping, walking, hopping, leaping--use whatever form of locomotion for as long as you feel like. No man cards will be revoked.
Never have so many
Said so much
About so little
I finished "Called Again" last Thursday. Made things very clear. Crystal. As they say.
Wayne
Never have so many
Said so much
About so little
I finished "Called Again" last Thursday. Made things very clear. Crystal. As they say.
Wayne
Not quite as interesting as the potential sale of a package of Louisiana Beans and Rice, I gather. ;)
rocketsocks
06-15-2014, 15:42
I'm not so much a purist that I would not hike into a town on the South end, and for what ever reason wound up nearer the North end of town where another access to the trail existed and take that one to the trail. If ever i'd hike from Georgia to Maine, I'd view it as just that, hiking from GA to ME using the Appalachian trail, I could care less about any certificate or recognition for doing so. Now having said that, if one wants those qualifications, then hike the trail...all of it.
kayak karl
06-15-2014, 18:12
WC Fields had a substantial library in his home. Although a staunch atheist, or perhaps because of that, he studied theology and owned several volumes on the subject as well as multiple Bibles. Gene Fowler, noticing a Bible on the shelf, asked Fields, "What the hell are you doing with that"? Fields replied, "Been lookin' for loopholes."
rocketsocks
06-15-2014, 18:36
WC Fields had a substantial library in his home. Although a staunch atheist, or perhaps because of that, he studied theology and owned several volumes on the subject as well as multiple Bibles. Gene Fowler, noticing a Bible on the shelf, asked Fields, "What the hell are you doing with that"? Fields replied, "Been lookin' for loopholes."
Laughing my arse off, I can relate to that type mentality :D that's great!
A redeeming quote. Well done kayak karl.
Wayne
WC Fields had a substantial library in his home. Although a staunch atheist, or perhaps because of that, he studied theology and owned several volumes on the subject as well as multiple Bibles. Gene Fowler, noticing a Bible on the shelf, asked Fields, "What the hell are you doing with that"? Fields replied, "Been lookin' for loopholes."
One would hope so, given that slavery, polygamy and stoning-to-death are A-OK according to the good book.
Well spoken Baltimore Jack. Someone mentioned Elwood. That problem wasn't the skipping it was the freeloading and leaching. Far behond the normal act of yogi.
12TH Man
06-20-2014, 21:04
Yes, I mentioned Elwood. And I disagree with you. It was both, thievery and thievery. Robbing the trail; robbing fellow hikers.
Philosophical maybe. Elwood; nonetheless will rot.
bamboo bob
06-20-2014, 21:26
I mostly! don't care what people do. But please don't yellow blaze around the Whites and tell me you thru-hiked. The issue is people who don't thru-hike telling people they did and that reflects on those that did. Something like when people falsify their resume to get a job. I am not a purist.
A purist would have to walk past every white blaze carrying his own gear and food. Walk into town for resupply and never stay overnight in town. Bathe only in streams. Laundry only in streams. ( A woman in Kent from the ATC when the laundry was closed explained how I could wash my clothes in a large ziplock with soap. Rinse in a stream! and then dry them in the sun. Good idea if I wanted to spend a day doing my wash) Cook over an open fire only. Boil water for purification. Did I leave anything out to make a hike as pure and difficult as possible?
Ricky&Jack
06-20-2014, 21:34
Did I leave anything out to make a hike as pure and difficult as possible?
No boots or shoes.
12TH Man
06-20-2014, 21:40
Relax there Bamboo. Anal retentive?
bamboo bob
06-20-2014, 21:46
Relax there Bamboo. Anal retentive? Good point. Bury waste in 12" hole. Leaves for TP. Moss is ok.
12TH Man
06-20-2014, 21:53
Touche. Love you Bob
12TH Man
06-20-2014, 21:55
You are obviously an old fart.
You can skip the whole middle of the AT. Climb to the top of Springer, or get a ride up. Go to Maine. Climb up Katahdin. Write to the AMC tell them you hiked the whole trail and they will give you a certificate. You could also stay home and write to the ATC and tell them you hiked the whole trail and they will send you a certificate.
The point that I am trying to make it's up to the individual hiker to decide what he or she wants to hike in order to claim that you hiked the whole trail.
I hiked thru-hiked the AT in 2001. When the names of those who claimed to have hiked the whole trail were published in the AT Trail Journal I saw listed quite a few fellow hikers who claimed to have thru-hiked and I know didn't finish or skipped a sizable amount. One was even a priest.
rocketsocks
06-21-2014, 13:13
Good point. Bury waste in 12" hole. Leaves for TP. Moss is ok.
LOL...Nice!
I mostly! don't care what people do. But please don't yellow blaze around the Whites and tell me you thru-hiked. The issue is people who don't thru-hike telling people they did and that reflects on those that did. Something like when people falsify their resume to get a job. I am not a purist.
I guess I don't understand how it reflects on anyone but the person making the claim. Anyone with knowledge of the trail, and knowledge that the "thru-hiker" skipped such and massive chunk of trail would take the claim with a grain of salt. No reflection of anyone else.
A person who was not familiar with the trail would probably never know. I doubt the "thru-hiker" is advertising the fact that they skipped the Whites. Again, though, how does that reflect on the next person who actually did hike the Whites? I don't think it does, at least not to any great degree.
My opinion is that hiking is a personal endeavor, not a contest, so my version of it does not affect anyone else's hike. Would I skip the Whites and say I thru-hiked? No. Would I hike around the Whites and call it a thru-hike? No. Would I bicycle around the Whites and call it a thru-hike? No.
Would I take alternate routes through the Whites (either by choice or accident)? Not intentionally, but if by accident? Perhaps. Now we are getting into gray areas in my mind and I have ZERO problem with people making their own determinations. However they decide would have no perceivable affect on my hike. Not anything I would worry about. And that could be said about any number of silly (in my mind) arguments that folks like to have on this topic.
Have you noticed how uncommon it is these days to have someone say "you lied, you lied about what you did?" It seems too harsh. We'd rather say "he must be mistaken" or he's incorrect" or it depends on one's interpretation of the phrase "have done their BEST to have hiked the entire AT." Societies have found a multitude of ways to hide their dishonesty: rationalization, argumentation, explanations, denial, debates, various interpretations/translations, loopholes, what if's, etc. You'd think some were part of a legal defense team successfully debating the definition of the word "the" or what it means to have "sexual relations." Some of us should strongly consider political careers.
rocketsocks
06-21-2014, 14:48
I think all should skip the trail entirely (it's over rated) put in for your certificates, and never hike again, that way I'd have the place all to myself. :D
Some of us should strongly consider political careers.
Well, when the Appalachian Trail can even pass through Argentina, the idea of a thru hike takes on an entirely different meaning!
rocketsocks
06-21-2014, 15:00
Whatever. :)Exactly right! :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ibWqDWGcBM
So what's you're legal specialty Coffee as an attorney? Personal Injury? Constitutional Law? Criminal Defense? :D Coffee = Vinny Gambini?
Haha, thankfully I narrowly missed going down the law school path, but just barely...
rocketsocks
06-21-2014, 15:12
Well what ever Coffee did, sounds like it involved a lot of studyin.....Coooffeeeeeee.
Have you noticed how uncommon it is these days to have someone say "you lied, you lied about what you did?" It seems too harsh. We'd rather say "he must be mistaken" or he's incorrect" or it depends on one's interpretation of the phrase "have done their BEST to have hiked the entire AT." Societies have found a multitude of ways to hide their dishonesty: rationalization, argumentation, explanations, denial, debates, various interpretations/translations, loopholes, what if's, etc. You'd think some were part of a legal defense team successfully debating the definition of the word "the" or what it means to have "sexual relations." Some of us should strongly consider political careers.
So, HYOH, as long a you follow my rules. Wasn't it Mags who said: HMHDI.
I couldn't really care less about how someone else hikes and what they call it. Hopefully, they couldn't care less about how I hike mine, as long as we are there for each other if needed in an emergency.
HYOH, definitely so but if I catch you lying to me about you Hiking Your Own Hike yeah I'll probably call you out on it that you are being misleading. If you persist in deception I'll use more forceful direct language to describe your actions. Do I go around quizzing folks about their miles or sections they hiked? NO! I have better things to do but if anyone expects everyone(me) to complacently accept their BS dishonest stories when I know they are being deceitful I'll probably say something. Go find someone else to be dishonest with that looks the other way when they know they are being lied to. I'm quite clear about this in these types of threads yet someone always says things like I'm applying my rules to their hikes. Others get this back in their faces too. I already said back on page 5, "HYOH but DO NOT be dishonest about what you hiked." If you can't tell me the truth about such a simple thing as hiking what else are you capable of lying about? I step on toes here with this subject with my frank confrontational language so I'll defer my exact sentiments stated in a more elegant way.
A thru-hike has long been understood to be a single-year hike of the entire Appalachian Trail.
Please note the word "entire". This doesn't leave a lot of wriggle room, it's a very simple word and concept.
If hiking the Trail in its entirety is a goal that is important to you, I think that's tremendous.
If not hiking the Trail in its entirety is cool with you, well it's cool with me, too. It is, after all, your hike.
I think the problem is when people reconcile themselves with one of these goals, but then insist they've actually achieved another one.
Which, of course, they haven't.
The simple way to escape this predicament: Figure out what's important to you, and then go do what you have to do in order to achieve whatever your goal ends up being. Be honest to yourself and to others about what you've chosen to do; don't dwell or fret about what you didn't do, don't lie or pretend you did something you elected not to do, but instead, rejoice and be happy in what you DID do.
squeezebox
06-22-2014, 01:55
There's nothing wrong with saying I did 99.9% of the trail.
Something happened about the 0.1%, and so much does.
But if you want to say you hiked the ENTIRE AT, it pretty much means every white blaze.
Do what's important to you.
Well I did a 10 mile blue blaze that cut off 5 miles of the AT , but look at the pictures from that look out.
I'm old and fat, my knees were killing me, I yellow blazed 20 miles around a very bad downhill. But because of that I stayed on the trail.
Hike for yourself not someone else.
Never did personally meet That Elwood 12th man. However, have great faith that an Aggie had the correct solution for an out right thief.
bangorme
06-22-2014, 19:01
Once I saw someone ask a question in a running magazine that was something like "Should I run without a shirt?" The answer was: "If you ask that question, you shouldn't." Which I think is close to the answer to the OP.
Foresight
06-23-2014, 05:49
The DH sucks.
Rain Man
06-23-2014, 08:59
"How far do you think it's okay to 'skip'?"
Hmmmmm ... let me ask my wife how much of our wedding vows I can "skip" and how often and still swear I was faithful. I'll get back to you. :rolleyes:
Rain:sunMan
.
I don't think comparing a thru-hike to wedding vows is exactly a good comparison. I'd ask my wife for her opinion on that comparison, but I already know what she would say. ;)
The Appalachian National Scenic Trail is a designated route.
The Appalachian Trail merely a corridor through the Appalachians.
If you want the totchke for your wall, hike the Appalachian National Scenic Trail. If you take an alternate route (a blue blaze, the BMT, a trail in the Whites, etc), let the ATC know you did as such. You'll probably still get a totchke for your wall.
If you hike the Appalachian Trail, well...it really doesn't matter.
:)
Why do these questions arise almost exclusively surrounding AT thru-hiking or AT completion? On no other trail or route do I see this magnitude of questions regarding completion arising so often. This is why I love the CDT and why I love coming up with my own routes to which there is no official recognition, patch, trophy, plaque, smiley face, five stars, etc!
bamboo bob
06-23-2014, 14:44
Why do these questions arise almost exclusively surrounding AT thru-hiking or AT completion? On no other trail or route do I see this magnitude of questions regarding completion arising so often. This is why I love the CDT and why I love coming up with my own routes to which there is no official recognition, patch, trophy, plaque, smiley face, five stars, etc!
You think people don't care if you complete the CDT by hitchhiking Montana and then get their ALDHA approved Triple Crown?
Last Call
06-23-2014, 14:49
You mean to tell me there is NO patch or badge for completing the CDT? Why on earth do people hike it?
You mean to tell me there is NO patch or badge for completing the CDT? Why on earth do people hike it?
For the delicious craft beer found up and down the divide.
The CDT goes through Montana?
rocketsocks
06-23-2014, 16:14
For the delicious craft beer found up and down the divide.Must be somthin in the water.
ChefATLTCT
06-23-2014, 16:40
A very famous thru hiker once said when asked a similar question " It does not matter how you hiked(the AT), just don't lie about it when you are done" Interpret as you will.
Must be somthin in the water.
Hops, yeast and barley.
rocketsocks
06-23-2014, 16:55
Hops, yeast and barley.That particular combination makes Alcohol under the right circumstances if I remember my high school chemistry class correctly.....yeah thad 'll do it. :D
Last Call
06-23-2014, 17:05
And Treated water....any questions?
Pedaling Fool
06-23-2014, 19:44
....yeah thad 'll do it. :DFollowed by https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHXK2t50S-8
I don't think comparing a thru-hike to wedding vows is exactly a good comparison. I'd ask my wife for her opinion on that comparison, but I already know what she would say. ;)
The Appalachian National Scenic Trail is a designated route.
The Appalachian Trail merely a corridor through the Appalachians.
If you want the totchke for your wall, hike the Appalachian National Scenic Trail. If you take an alternate route (a blue blaze, the BMT, a trail in the Whites, etc), let the ATC know you did as such. You'll probably still get a totchke for your wall.
If you hike the Appalachian Trail, well...it really doesn't matter.
:)
You are not alone in thinking like that:
The Appalachian Trail is a wilderness strip; it could be very wide–several miles wide–if possible. It is not a trailway. Actually, the trail itself could be a strip no wider than space for a fat man to get through. And that’s the trouble: ‘Trailway’ is a very unfortunate word; it gives the impression of a Greyhound bus and a great cement, six-lane highway, which is just the opposite of what the trail is supposed to be.
–BENTON MACKAYE, AIA Journal interview where he bluntly repudiated the Trailway concept as adopted by the Appalachian Trail Conference, 1971
To me the word "miles" was the pivotal item, I would think to most this would be of concern. Moral issue really, like cheating on your taxes. How far do you go?
Stopping on one side of a highway and picking back up on the other, in my book, understandable.
With shelters that have two ways in, I backtrack
I am also the fool who went South from Harpers Ferry, intending to hike NOBO.
If there is ANYWHERE ON THE AT WHERE THERE SHOULD BE A MAINE/GEORGIA SIGN, it is outside of the National Headquarters
When I got back there I walked 3-4 miles in the pouring rain to touch points............felt better when it was done.