Grand Canyon -- What is the name of this section?

[Shutterbug]

I have hiked the South Kaibab Trail many times. There is a section below Skeleton Point and before the Tip Off that has a lot of switch backs. That section has to have a name, but I have not been able to find out what it is. Does anybody know?

[Ricky&Jack]

Hey Dave, have you ever hiked a majority of the canyon? Out of what you have hiked, is there a particular 3-5 day section you would recommend to someone who has never been there? (When I go out west to do my big hike in a few months, I was contemplating a stop down there on the way back)

[HooKooDooKu]

I've only got limited experience with the Grand Canyon (took my boys over spring break where we did the South Kiabab and Bright Angel).

But based on the research I did over the course of a year, I have two suggestions for you:

1. Rim-to-Rim: Take the shuttle service from the South Rim to the North Rim. Starting the next day, hike back to the South Rim over three nights.
2. Nankoweap Trail: Considered the most difficult trail, the average hike takes 3 nights and caching resources on the way down. Also considered to require route finding skills.

[Wil]

section below Skeleton Point and before the Tip Off that has a lot of switch backs. That section has to have a name?I've hiked in the Canyon many, many times and have never heard it referred to as anything but "the Switchbacks". Even though there is a section of numerous switchbacks at the bottom just before the tunnel/bridge, and to a lesser extent at the top, everybody knows what "the Switchbacks on the South Kaibab Trail" means.

On a cool day they are just a pleasant way to shed some altitude painlessly, with some nice views of the Tonto level as you approach it. But I've done it at 105F with no breeze and a mercilessly cloudless sky and it's horror beyond belief.

[Wil]

is there a particular 3-5 day section you would recommend to someone who has never been there?A first-time visitor really should do the corridor. I'd suggest Day1: South Kaibab Trail to Bright Angel Camp; Day2: North Kaibab Trail to Ribbons Falls & Upper Ribbons Falls and then on to Cottonwood Camp; Day3: Day hike on North Kaibab Trail to the North Rim & back to Cottonwood; Day4:North Kaibab & Bright Angel Trails to Indian Garden Camp with a sunset trip out to Plateau Point (this is a long mileage day but not too strenuous); Day5: Bright Angel Trail out.

By "in a few months" I hope you mean well into September. July, August and early September risk killing heat.

[Turk6177]

I was just in the Canyon a couple months ago. I would also suggest you hike the corridor trails to start. Generally people go down S. Kaibab Trail and back up Bright Angel. I actually went down twice. I hiked in S. Kaibab, then out Bright Angel Trail, then I spent the night in a campground at the top, hiked back in on the Hermit trail to and camped at Hermit Rapids. From there I hiked over to Monument Campsite and spent the night. The last day I hiked out Hermit trail. I kept a journal while hiking if you want to read it. It might give you some ideas of where you might want to go in the canyon. http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=450402

[Venchka]

Way OT...

http://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/pets.htm

Wayne

[Ricky&Jack]

yeah I had thought about that. But I would not take him in the heat of the canyon til I knew he could handle it. I'd have no problem leaving him with my aunt/cousins in phoenix about 3.5hrs away

[Venchka]

Still off topic.




Pets are NOT permitted


below the rim - also called the "inner canyon"




Wayne

[colorado_rob]

I've hiked the S. Kaibab trail at least a dozen times, never heard that switchback section called anything, sorry.

The GC is certainly a wonderful place, we go at least once a year, many times twice, always enjoyable but NEVER ever in the summer. Always spring or fall; we really like the spring because the north rim is closed and we can enjoy the north rim trails w/o crowds (though of course, it is a hike to get there!).

[Dogwood]

I've hiked the S. Kaibab trail at least a dozen times, never heard that switchback section called anything, sorry.

The GC is certainly a wonderful place, we go at least once a year, many times twice, always enjoyable but NEVER ever in the summer. Always spring or fall; we really like the spring because the north rim is closed and we can enjoy the north rim trails w/o crowds (though of course, it is a hike to get there!).
+1. Favorite time to be at the GC is in the fall w/ winter second and, if going to experience water features, the spring.

[Shutterbug]

Hey Dave, have you ever hiked a majority of the canyon? Out of what you have hiked, is there a particular 3-5 day section you would recommend to someone who has never been there? (When I go out west to do my big hike in a few months, I was contemplating a stop down there on the way back)

I have been taking first timers to the Grand Canyon for several years. Because I had a series of medical emergencies (my guests, not me), I have started recommending that people take a day hike for their first Grand Canyon hike. No permit is needed and they can find out if Grand Canyon hiking is for them. I recommend hiking down the Bright Angel Trail to Indian Garden and return the same day. That is a 9 mile hike. There are rest houses at 1 1/2 miles, 3 miles and 4 1/2 miles. This hike allows one to experience the Grand Canyon. Some people take that hike and say "Never again!!" Others enjoy it so much they immediately want more.

For a five day hike, I recommend a rim to rim to rim. Day One - hike down the South Kaibab Trail to Bright Angel Campground. Day Two -- hike from Bright Angel Campground to Cottonwood Campground. Day Three -- leave your tent at Cottonwood. Hike from Cottonwood to the North Rim and back to Cottonwood. This is the "big day. It is 14 mile with 5,000 feet of elevation gain, but it is a beautiful hike. Day Four -- Hike back to Bright Angel Campground. Day Five -- Hike back to the South Rim on the Bright Angel Trail. My wife and I try to do this hike at lease once a year. We use a duffle service to carry our packs to and from the Bright Angel Campground. That means we are carrying full packs only on the Bright Angel to Cottonwood days.

To get an idea of the scenery, check a few of the albums on my web site -- http://www.davemcclung.com.

[Shutterbug]

I've hiked the S. Kaibab trail at least a dozen times, never heard that switchback section called anything, sorry.

The GC is certainly a wonderful place, we go at least once a year, many times twice, always enjoyable but NEVER ever in the summer. Always spring or fall; we really like the spring because the north rim is closed and we can enjoy the north rim trails w/o crowds (though of course, it is a hike to get there!).

The switchbacks on the Bright Angel Trail are known as "Devil's Staircase."

On the web, I found one place they are referred to as the "Red Wall Switchbacks" and another place they are called "Skeleton Point Switchbacks."

In March, the most recent time I hiked it, I asked several people on the trail. None knew a name other than "the switchbacks." Maybe I should name them.

[evyck da fleet]

Off on a tangent, but how difficult would it be to hike from BA CG to the North Rim in a day in mid-late October and then return the next day? I'd like to do R2R2R but f I need to do South Rim to River and back up and then shuttle across to the North Rim and hike back to the South Rim I'd be fine with that.

[HooKooDooKu]

Off on a tangent, but how difficult would it be to hike from BA CG to the North Rim in a day in mid-late October and then return the next day? I'd like to do R2R2R but f I need to do South Rim to River and back up and then shuttle across to the North Rim and hike back to the South Rim I'd be fine with that.

That's a distance of 14 miles with an elevation gain of 5,761'. In a word... "difficult". But it totally depends upon your abilities.

Now I can tell you that I did just fine (tired, but fine) hiking the South Kaibab Trail down one day, and the full Bright Angel Trail back up the next day with by sons (ages 7 & 11). So as a comparison, Bright Angel is 9.5 miles with a 4,380' elevation change. The North Kaibab trail is 4.5 miles longer and almost 1,400' higher.

Here you go... since you're an experienced AT thru hiker... do you remember entering the Great Smoky Mountains? I would estimate that hiking the full North Kaibab trail in one day to be equivalent to hiking from Fontana Dam to Russel Field shelter in one day.

But one thing I don't get is the idea of including a shuttle as any part of a R2R2R hike. I could understand the idea that someone would consider it possible for them to hike DOWN the full North Kaibab trail in a day, but not UP it in a day, so they utilize a shuttle so they only ever have to go DOWN North Kaibab. But that's not a R2R2R hike. But even if you don't care about that, including a shuttle in your plans is going to increase logistics for your trip by 1 to 3 days. It would seem to me that that would be better time well spent by breaking the North Kaibab trail in two and staying at Cottonwood Campground. The hike from Cottonwood to the North rim would seem to be just a little bit easier than a hike from Bright Angel Campground to the South Rim in a day.

[colorado_rob]

Off on a tangent, but how difficult would it be to hike from BA CG to the North Rim in a day in mid-late October and then return the next day? I'd like to do R2R2R but f I need to do South Rim to River and back up and then shuttle across to the North Rim and hike back to the South Rim I'd be fine with that. too broad of a question; for some, trivial, for others, monumental. Myself and a lot of pals have done 12 consecutive R2R2R's in anywhere from 8 to 20 hours (I'm on the high end of that... 17-18).

One item though is that I would doubt that the north rim CG is open in late October, but check, maybe I'm wrong.

What I know a lot of folks do is this: Hike from south rim to cottonwood camp, about 14-15 miles (Kaibab vs. bright angel trails), camp there, hike to north rim and back next day (14 miles r/t), camp another night, then back to south rim the next. Two nights at Cottonwood camp. Some might choose to only hike to Phantom or Indian gardens on the way out and camp a third night.

[Shutterbug]

Off on a tangent, but how difficult would it be to hike from BA CG to the North Rim in a day in mid-late October and then return the next day? I'd like to do R2R2R but f I need to do South Rim to River and back up and then shuttle across to the North Rim and hike back to the South Rim I'd be fine with that.

A lot of people hike from Bright Angel Campground to the North Rim in day. The problem is that the services on the North Rim close in mid-October. I am not sure whether or not the North Rim Campground is still open or not. The hike from BA to Cottonwood is an easy one -- less than 2,000 feet of elevation gain.

I don't know when the shuttle stops running to the North Rim.

Mid to late October is a great time to hike the Grand Canyon. I did the rim to rim to rim last October, but I didn't camp on the North Rim. I prefer not to carry a full pack on the section from Cottonwood to the North Rim.

[Shutterbug]

Some things to consider in planning a rim to rim to rim.

1. Duffle Service is available between the South Rim and Phantom Ranch/Bright Angel Campground. Hiking is more fun without the full pack.
2. Steak dinners are available at Phantom Ranch. I like camp food, but steak and baked potato is special at the bottom of the canyon.
3. Ranger Programs are available at Phantom Ranch. They provide some good information and entertainment.

For those reasons, I usually include Bright Angel Campground for at least the first night.

[Shutterbug]

I have hiked the South Kaibab Trail many times. There is a section below Skeleton Point and before the Tip Off that has a lot of switch backs. That section has to have a name, but I have not been able to find out what it is. Does anybody know?

One additional comment for those planning a Grand Canyon hike. You have already missed the permits for October. The application for November needs to be submitted on July 1. Getting a permit in the fall is getting harder and harder. Some are successful getting a walkup permit, but those are also getting harder to get.

[Different Socks]

Are you talking about the section of trail below the rim before the 3 mile rest house, or below the tonto plateau?

[evyck da fleet]

Thanks for the replies. I've got a permit for mid-late October but it came with a letter about reconsidering doing back to back 14 mile days b/w BA CG and the North Rim. The shuttle would be a alternate to the R2R2R hike if I didn't think I could climb the 14 miles in a day but still wanted to hike both sides of the GC. The north campground is open but services, other than water, will most likely be closed at that time.

I was looking to see if anyone had done the climb up knowing you had to carry food to get back to the south rim and this is just a warning from the park to be very prepared or if I'm trying to do something stupid. The first 20 mile day I did on the AT was pretty early (over Albert and up to Siler Bald) and I didn't have a problem doing 20s on the JMT.

[Shutterbug]

Are you talking about the section of trail below the rim before the 3 mile rest house, or below the tonto plateau?

I am asking about the South Kaibab Trail, not the Bright Angel Trail. The 3 mile rest house is on the Bright Angel Trail.

[Shutterbug]

Thanks for the replies. I've got a permit for mid-late October but it came with a letter about reconsidering doing back to back 14 mile days b/w BA CG and the North Rim. The shuttle would be a alternate to the R2R2R hike if I didn't think I could climb the 14 miles in a day but still wanted to hike both sides of the GC. The north campground is open but services, other than water, will most likely be closed at that time.

I was looking to see if anyone had done the climb up knowing you had to carry food to get back to the south rim and this is just a warning from the park to be very prepared or if I'm trying to do something stupid. The first 20 mile day I did on the AT was pretty early (over Albert and up to Siler Bald) and I didn't have a problem doing 20s on the JMT.

The NPS always gives that warning to people who apply for a permit that includes hikes longer than 10 miles.

You can avoid carrying the extra food to the North Rim. I send a Duffle Bag to Phantom Ranch. When I head to the North Rim, I leave the extra food in the Duffle Bag at Phantom Ranch. I leave a note on the Duffle Bag and lock it in the wire cage at Phantom Ranch. The note says, "I am hiking to the North Rim and will return on ____" Do not send this to the top until _______.

I have done this several times without a problem.

[Wil]

The switchbacks on the Bright Angel Trail are known as "Devil's Staircase."You meant to say South Kaibab Trail, I think. The infamous switchbacks on the Bright Angel Trail are called "The Devil's Corkscrew."

While there are web references to the South Kaibab Trail switchbacks as the Devil's Staircase, I have never actually heard that term used.

[Different Socks]

Lived there for 4.5 years. Never heard of a name for the switchbacks on the S. Kaibab.

[Shutterbug]

You meant to say South Kaibab Trail, I think. The infamous switchbacks on the Bright Angel Trail are called "The Devil's Corkscrew."

While there are web references to the South Kaibab Trail switchbacks as the Devil's Staircase, I have never actually heard that term used.

Thanks. I wasn't trying to confuse people. You are correct that the switch backs on the Bright Angel Trail an properly called the "Devil's Corkscrew."

When I Googled "The Devil's Staircase Grand Canyon", I found that quite a few people use that term to apply to the switchbacks I asked about in the original post. I guess others have had the same question that I have and just applied that name.

[evyck da fleet]

Shutterbug, thanks for the info. One more reason I'll need to stop at the ranch for a beer and maybe a meal