View Full Version : Northern Long Trail Questions
I am looking to do a short section hike of the northern section of the Long Trail. I am looking to start first thing August 15 and finish up by the morning of the 23rd. I am looking to hike from the Northern Terminus and finish up at RT 89 which I believe is near Richmond. I am planning on hiking 10-12 miles a day. Normally I hike between 16-20 miles but I want to take into acount for the more difficult terrain in this section. I have been hiking with a 15 pound base weight for three season camping but will be supplementing some current items which should bring me to at the most 12 pounds base weight. I can carry more but prefer to stay as light as possible because of all of the elevation changes.
I am not tied to the shelters because I will be hiking with a hammock. By just looking at the maps I am tentatively planning on stopping near these locations at the end of each day:
Night 1- Laura Woodward Shelter
Night 2- Hazens Notch
Night 3- Spruce Ledge Shelter
Night 4- Codding Hollow
Night 5-Between Rt 15 and Bear Hollow Shelter(Depending on ressuply needs)
Night 6- Sterling Pond Shelter
Night 7- Taylor Lodge Shelter
Night 8- Between Bolton Notch Rd and Duck Brook Shelter
Does this schedule look reasonable? Would you suggest any changes?
For some reason that I hike faster than I plan I can always hitch to Camels Hump State Park and hike back to 89.
I do have the Long Trail Guides ordered so some of these questions may be answered when that arrives but I would be interested in hearing feedback from everyone here as well.
I have tentatively planned to pull off at Rt 15 for a resupply. Is this a good location for food items or is there other locations to get off of the trail around here for food? I tend not to eat too much the first three days but I want to plan like I go through all of my food at this point. I may just need to supplement what food I have left.
Where is a good location to leave a car around Rt 89?
I will check who shuttles in the area when the guides arrive but is there any recomendations of people who have provided you with good service in the past in this area?
I plan on ending the hike by Saturday morning because I want to make my way up to Hill Farmstead to fill up some growlers before heading home and they close for the week by 5 on Saturday. Where is a good location to pick up Headdy Topper by the case?
I appreciate all of your feedback.
Where is a good location to leave a car around Rt 89?
Across the street from the post office in Jonesville. There is no exit for Jonesville, you get there either from Waterbury or from Richmond.
check the alchemist website for where to buy cases of HT. the info is there.
Slo-go'en
06-18-2014, 20:31
First, be aware that north of the AT junction, the LT traverses private (mostly) and state (some) land and camping is only permitted at GMC shelter sites. Camping and fires are prohibited between shelters. In addition, tenting (and by implication hammocking) is not allowed unless the shelter is full to capacity. However, shelters are rarely full in the northern section of the LT. Please follow these regulations.
There is a supermarket and a nice restaurant / pub in Johnson, east on RT15. If you want a place to stay, Nye B+B is nice and they will pick you up and drop you off at the trail. I hitched to Johnson and then called to go to their B+B. It's a little expensive though at $70, but is about the only option.
The trail in these northern sections is narrow, overgrown, steep, rocky, slippery and therefore very slow hiking. You have to pay attention to nearly every step you make. Which makes it a very interesting and challenging hike. 8 days to do that section is not unrealistic, but you'd better be in real good shape or it will beat you up real bad.
Thank you rafe. I appreciate knowing there is an easy place to leave my vehicle.
check the alchemist website for where to buy cases of HT. the info is there.
I will check out the website a see if there is anyplace near the trail that carries the beer by the case.
First, be aware that north of the AT junction, the LT traverses private (mostly) and state (some) land and camping is only permitted at GMC shelter sites. Camping and fires are prohibited between shelters. In addition, tenting (and by implication hammocking) is not allowed unless the shelter is full to capacity. However, shelters are rarely full in the northern section of the LT. Please follow these regulations.
There is a supermarket and a nice restaurant / pub in Johnson, east on RT15. If you want a place to stay, Nye B+B is nice and they will pick you up and drop you off at the trail. I hitched to Johnson and then called to go to their B+B. It's a little expensive though at $70, but is about the only option.
The trail in these northern sections is narrow, overgrown, steep, rocky, slippery and therefore very slow hiking. You have to pay attention to nearly every step you make. Which makes it a very interesting and challenging hike. 8 days to do that section is not unrealistic, but you'd better be in real good shape or it will beat you up real bad.
Thank you for all of the information. I had not heard about the camping only at the shelters. That is good to know about the supermarket in Johnson. I do understand how challenging this section is. That is one reason that I cut my mileage back a good bit. I am not a super fast hiker but I do tend to hike from around 6:30 till close to dark.
Cookerhiker
06-18-2014, 21:36
Day 7 will be your toughest. Get an early start. Statistically, the hike up Mansfield is steep but compared to many other Northern New England trails, I found the grading very steady. But the descent down the south side of Mansfield will also be slow-going.
Thank you for all of the information. I had not heard about the camping only at the shelters.
Nor have I.
On my 2nd last LT hike, I was aiming for Bamforth Ridge Shelter on north side of Camel's Hump. I didn't make it. Darkness overtook me and the the trail was too gnarly to deal with by headlight. I made camp at the first decent spot I could find. (Turned out I was about 1/4 mile shy of the shelter, but it was a steep, ragged 1/4 mile.)
Day 7 will be your toughest. Get an early start. Statistically, the hike up Mansfield is steep but compared to many other Northern New England trails, I found the grading very steady. But the descent down the south side of Mansfield will also be slow-going.
Can you assure me that Mansfield is the worst the LT will throw at me? That would be nice. Mansfield was a trip.
Slo-go'en
06-18-2014, 22:15
Day 7 will be your toughest. Get an early start. Statistically, the hike up Mansfield is steep but compared to many other Northern New England trails, I found the grading very steady. But the descent down the south side of Mansfield will also be slow-going.
That whole section from Whiteface to past Butler Lodge is a killer. Hope for good weather going across Mansfield or it is really rough. The climb up to Taft lodge from the road isn't too bad, but from there to the chin is fully exposed, very steep and is dangerous in bad weather. Being the fall caretaker for Taft lodge was one of the highlights of my mountain bum years :)
As for the camping restrictions, it pays to have a guide book and read the fine print! The southern part of the LT where it coincides with the AT is mostly on National Forest land, so the rules are more relaxed there.
Camels Hump and Mansfield are state land and heavily used, with the rest private land so therefore the camping restrictions. Of course, in an emergency you do what you have to do, but don't plan on camping between shelters. In any event, the terrain and dense spruce forest is such that there are few really suitable places anyway.
The nasty parts of Mansfield are just off the two ends of the summit ridge. I think the south end is called the Forehead. At the north end, the first 0.1 or 0.2 miles descent off the summit are seriously steep. I know I'm not the only hiker unnerved by these two sections. In fact, I'd say 100% of the hikers I've met who've done it, were somehow compelled to mention it in tones of awe and respect.
The ridge itself is not difficult hiking.
As for camping ... not gonna argue. As with the Whites, I wouldn't camp on an open ridge, and especially not on the Mansfield ridgeline. Aside from that... nobody from Middlebury Snow Bowl knows of my transgression.
imscotty
06-18-2014, 23:56
In addition, tenting (and by implication hammocking) is not allowed unless the shelter is full to capacity.
.
Hello Slo-go'en,
Your warning against camping between shelters in the areas that traverse private and some state land is dead on. Hikers should obtain the Green Mountain Club's Long Trail Guide which make it very clear what these areas are. Hikers should be considerate to the wishes of the landowners who have made this beautiful trail possible. However, I believe that camping is allowed in the area immediately around shelters, even if the shelter is not yet full. The Guide asks hikers to only used well established tenting spots (or tent platforms when available) around the shelters.
Some high impact sites have caretakers, and of course the directions from the caretakers on where to camp should be followed.
I appreciate all of the feedback on the Mount Mansfield section of the trail. I will be adjusting my trip based on the information on sleeping at the shelter locations. This will definately be a challenging hike but one that I have looked forward to for a long time.
bigcranky
06-19-2014, 07:40
This is all very helpful, thanks.
Cookerhiker
06-19-2014, 08:13
Can you assure me that Mansfield is the worst the LT will throw at me? That would be nice. Mansfield was a trip.
Hiking SOBO from Smuggler's Notch, most of the elevation gain up the north side of Mansfield from the road and past Taft Lodge is steep without question, but steady at an even (steep) grade, i.e., no PUDs and with relatively good footing. The south side of Mansfield is another matter - very rugged footing with ladders in some places. What both my hiking partner and I found difficult was the 13 miles between Taylor and Duck Brook Shelters (http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=203339) - it's constant up and down, tiring you out at the end of the day. It's easy to overlook or underestimate the difficulty of this stretch.
That whole section from Whiteface to past Butler Lodge is a killer. Hope for good weather going across Mansfield or it is really rough. The climb up to Taft lodge from the road isn't too bad, but from there to the chin is fully exposed, very steep and is dangerous in bad weather. Being the fall caretaker for Taft lodge was one of the highlights of my mountain bum years :)
As for the camping restrictions, it pays to have a guide book and read the fine print! The southern part of the LT where it coincides with the AT is mostly on National Forest land, so the rules are more relaxed there.
Camels Hump and Mansfield are state land and heavily used, with the rest private land so therefore the camping restrictions. Of course, in an emergency you do what you have to do, but don't plan on camping between shelters. In any event, the terrain and dense spruce forest is such that there are few really suitable places anyway.
The Green Mountain National Forest does resume north of Brandon Gap and runs until about half-way along the Lincoln Ridge.
I know for a fact that some LT shelters have very usable tent spaces. Others do not.
Wind Gap - no.
Butler - no.
Puffer - no.
Birch Glen - yes
Cowles Cove - yes.
Boyce - yes
Emily Proctor - yes
Cooley Glen - yes
Duck Brook - yes, limited
Puffer - no
IMO there are stealth opportunities (and excellent views) in several places along the Mt. Abraham - Glen Ellen ridge. You're going over three major ski areas, occasionally walking across their slopes and past their top lift stations.
A bit south of that you walk through a few slopes at Middlebury Snow Bowl. LT has, I don't know, a dozen ski areas along its length?
I was amused when I found myself walking along a slope at Glen Ellen which I'd skied hundreds of times in prior years.
I wouldn't camp anywhere near the summit or bare portions of Camel's Hump -- fragile vegetation, and too exposed. It's just not cool. Ditto for Mansfield. I did camp halfway down the north side of Camel's Hump, 'cuz I couldn't make it to the shelter before dark.
Now, I'm guessing -- from Rte. 108 north it's going to be the same issue as in most of the Whites -- the terrain just being impossibly steep, densely wooded, and gnarly for camping along much of its length. Places like that I generally assume that I'll be staying at a shelter -- but I carry a tent anyway, just in case I can't make it, or a nice camp site does present itself.
Hanger not sure how old you are. The Northern Long Trail is both beautiful and a challange. Not a place to rush. Last year when I was up that way I was lucky because my sisters kid who is half Micmac was around the area and he was kinda the old uncles support team. What I did notice was that even though last season I was in good shape was that my miles per day was down. The GMC headquarters is up in that area also and they have a wealth of knowledge. Hey if you think of it give us a bridge report. Personally I have a vested interest in that project. The camping restrictions rules have changed over the years. Be careful and enjoy the beauty. Also they do have ridgerunners and sitecare takers who are extremely helpful. Never ran into a jerk type caretaker on the Long Trail. Hopefully the weather gods will be with you. Another note last season I could do 20 mpd in Mass. But up there sometimes I did only 7 or 8. The reason was two fold beauty and being careful because of the elevation changes. Have fun and may the weather Gods be with you.
Lemon B.
Another note last season I could do 20 mpd in Mass. But up there sometimes I did only 7 or 8. The reason was two fold beauty and being careful because of the elevation changes. Have fun and may the weather Gods be with you.
Lemon B.
Glad I'm not the only person noticing this. As I go north on the LT I see my forward rate converging back to White Mountain speed... one measly mile per hour, maybe 11-13 miles per day.
bigcranky
06-19-2014, 09:39
Glad I'm not the only person noticing this. As I go north on the LT I see my forward rate converging back to White Mountain speed... one measly mile per hour, maybe 11-13 miles per day.
Well, I'm okay with making 1mph if I can average about 10-12 per day north of Rt 4. So I'm glad to hear this. We're not fast, but we get an early start and keep going. I blocked out 25-26 days for this hike, which is 9 days to get to Rutland and then 16-17 for the rest of it. I'm hoping that this will be enough time for a couple of hikers on the north side of 50.
Slo-go'en
06-19-2014, 09:44
What both my hiking partner and I found difficult was the 13 miles between Taylor and Duck Brook Shelters (http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=203339) - it's constant up and down, tiring you out at the end of the day. It's easy to overlook or underestimate the difficulty of this stretch.
Yea, thanks for reminding me. That's a real interesting section to do on a weekend when you hear all the 50 caliber and small arms fire off in the distance. (National Guard training center is not far away).
Here's a picture of one of the unique climbs in that area:
27481
Cookerhiker
06-19-2014, 09:50
Well, I'm okay with making 1mph if I can average about 10-12 per day north of Rt 4. So I'm glad to hear this. We're not fast, but we get an early start and keep going. I blocked out 25-26 days for this hike, which is 9 days to get to Rutland and then 16-17 for the rest of it. I'm hoping that this will be enough time for a couple of hikers on the north side of 50.
My 2007 inside-out thruhike extended 32 days (http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?trailname=6248), but 6 were zeros. These were necessitated in part by the inside-out nature of the hike but also because I had the time. I also had nero days of 5.4, 4.2, 1.6, and 2.8 days, again necessitated or chosen by circumstances (first day, last day, small injury). So you should be in good shape for 25-26 days. FWIW, I was 59 when I did this hike.
Well, I'm okay with making 1mph if I can average about 10-12 per day north of Rt 4. So I'm glad to hear this. We're not fast, but we get an early start and keep going. I blocked out 25-26 days for this hike, which is 9 days to get to Rutland and then 16-17 for the rest of it. I'm hoping that this will be enough time for a couple of hikers on the north side of 50.
"North of Rte. 4" covers a lot of ground. The first 2-3 days north of Rte. 4 are still fairly easy. The first step-up in difficulty (IMO) is at Lincoln Gap. The last section I did, from Jonesville to Rte. 108, was another up-tick. Anything north of Sterling Pond I only know what I've heard & read from others and what intuition tells me.
Cookerhiker
06-19-2014, 11:46
The ascent up Mt. Horrid from Brandon Gap ain't exactly a stroll in the park.
The ascent up Mt. Horrid from Brandon Gap ain't exactly a stroll in the park.
Seriously ??? It's barely 1000' ascent. I hardly noticed the climb. It looks really nasty from the road, but those cliffs you see aren't part of the trail.
Cookerhiker
06-19-2014, 14:57
Seriously ??? It's barely 1000' ascent. I hardly noticed the climb. It looks really nasty from the road, but those cliffs you see aren't part of the trail.
Consider the ratios:
Brandon Gap to Mt. Horrid - 1,033' in 1.3 miles - 795' per mile
Lincoln Gap to Mt. Abraham - 1,582' in 2.6 miles - 608' per mile
Adding to that, the last time I ascended from Brandon Gap was in the midst of 2 weeks of rain with maybe 1-2 days without it. Often, our memories of how steep a trail is depends on the circumstances and how we felt at the time.
The ascent up to Abraham really steepens after Battell Shelter - 766' in .8 of mile. But starting from Lincoln Gap, the ascent is not, statiscally, as steep as the first mile from Brandon Gap
795 feet in a mile is barely 15% grade; that's routine for the White Mountains. To be clear, what I meant was that the trail started to get more difficult north of Lincoln Gap; I wasn't comparing the climb of Mt. Horrid with the climb of Mt. Abraham.
This discussion sorta shows how subjective these ratings of various climbs can be. I was refreshed and in great spirits when I climbed Mt. Horrid, it was the very start of a section and the weather was fine. I was hot to trot.
Hanger not sure how old you are. The Northern Long Trail is both beautiful and a challange. Not a place to rush. Last year when I was up that way I was lucky because my sisters kid who is half Micmac was around the area and he was kinda the old uncles support team. What I did notice was that even though last season I was in good shape was that my miles per day was down. The GMC headquarters is up in that area also and they have a wealth of knowledge. Hey if you think of it give us a bridge report. Personally I have a vested interest in that project. The camping restrictions rules have changed over the years. Be careful and enjoy the beauty. Also they do have ridgerunners and sitecare takers who are extremely helpful. Never ran into a jerk type caretaker on the Long Trail. Hopefully the weather gods will be with you. Another note last season I could do 20 mpd in Mass. But up there sometimes I did only 7 or 8. The reason was two fold beauty and being careful because of the elevation changes. Have fun and may the weather Gods be with you.
Lemon B.
I am in my mid 40's and in good shape. My 16 to 20 MPD normally is a relaxed pace. I tend not to sleep much at night so I am off at first light and tend to hike until close to dark. If the weather is good I am known for taking a nap at lunchtime and I do like to stop and take in views. One of my biggest faults is wanting to know what is over the next hill or around the next corner. I have no problem slowing down and enjoying the tail. I do hope I run into good weather as well. If I run into a lot of rain I will definitely be slowing down.
I appreciate all of the great information everyone has provided. My guidebook and map arrived today so I will have something to read while camping with the family this weekend. I will check back in after after getting back. Thank you everyone for your input that you have provided.
Across the street from the post office in Jonesville. There is no exit for Jonesville, you get there either from Waterbury or from Richmond.
By the way, I should have added -- you'll know the post office because it's about the only building in Jonesville. :) Have a great hike.
StubbleJumper
06-19-2014, 20:59
795 feet in a mile is barely 15% grade; that's routine for the White Mountains. To be clear, what I meant was that the trail started to get more difficult north of Lincoln Gap; I wasn't comparing the climb of Mt. Horrid with the climb of Mt. Abraham.
This discussion sorta shows how subjective these ratings of various climbs can be. I was refreshed and in great spirits when I climbed Mt. Horrid, it was the very start of a section and the weather was fine. I was hot to trot.
"Barely a 15% grade?" Seriously?
I can hike a 5% grade for a long distance without even really slowing down, but a 15% grade over any significant length of time is a taxing climb. And yes, there are *worse* climbs in the Whites or the 'dacks, but that doesn't mean that Mt Horrid is any easier. I've done Mt Horrid twice, with both climbs when I was fresh in the morning. But I can tell you that I wouldn't want to do that climb at 6pm after 15 miles on the LT!
"Barely a 15% grade?" Seriously?
I can hike a 5% grade for a long distance without even really slowing down, but a 15% grade over any significant length of time is a taxing climb. And yes, there are *worse* climbs in the Whites or the 'dacks, but that doesn't mean that Mt Horrid is any easier. I've done Mt Horrid twice, with both climbs when I was fresh in the morning. But I can tell you that I wouldn't want to do that climb at 6pm after 15 miles on the LT!
I'm sorry. 15% may be a tough grade but it's only 1000 feet. That is not a "signficant length of time" -- that's about an hour.
It really does look horrid, looking north on the trail from the other side of the gap. I can see where, if one was tired and beat at the end of a rough day, you might see those cliffs and get seriously bummed. Stuff like that happens to me all the time.
Folks talk about the Katahdin ascent being tough? I dunno, I just flew up the thing. But same deal: first day of the section, refreshed, and rarin' to go.
Talk to me on the last day of any given section and I'm b!tchin up a storm.
Vthiker77
06-20-2014, 17:25
Glad I'm not the only person noticing this. As I go north on the LT I see my forward rate converging back to White Mountain speed... one measly mile per hour, maybe 11-13 miles per day.
+1..........
Found that out the hard way...
the LT is like 2 different trails, from the MA/VT state line to Lincoln Gap is typical AT hiking, rocks & roots and hills for the most part..... while most all of the LT north of Lincoln Gap is much tougher hiking, (with the exception of the 2 road walks: the road walk along the Winooski River just after Bamforth Ridge, and the road walk just before you get to the road xing near Johnson and Jeffersonville). I was extremely lucky last September and had the best cool, sunny weather of the entire hike going over Camels Hump and Mansfield. From Mansfield north to Journey's End was a week of rain and cold, makes one appreciate the good days even more.
Cookerhiker
06-22-2014, 09:58
... I was extremely lucky last September and had the best cool, sunny weather of the entire hike going over Camels Hump and Mansfield. From Mansfield north to Journey's End was a week of rain and cold, makes one appreciate the good days even more.
At likely the same time you were enjoying that weather on the LT, I was hiking the Northville-Placid trail in the Adirondacks and like you, savoring the beautiful weather.