View Full Version : A pessemist attempting to change his views on going lighter.
Different Socks
06-18-2014, 15:48
I tried to post this before, but my new pc continues to act up on this web site, so I'll try again.
Made the age of 51 yesterday and knowing I'll have to lighten my pack somewhat, I've always had questions about several iems that take up the most space inside a pack.
Let's start with the sleeping bag: What size does your bag scrunch down to fit inside your pack?
--large coffee can
--Nalgene bottle
--large softball
--2 Nalgene bottles
--or something even larger than a coffee can
Also, please tell me the brand and type of fill for your bag.
My current bag in a cinch sack scrunches down to the size of 2 large coffee cans(about the size of a short/fatter bear canister). B/c of the size and shape of the pack I can't get the bag into the pack unless it is loose.
What season bag are we talking about? My summer 32* bag (actually about 2/3 of the year in SW VA) is a Summerlite and compresses into a 6x12 inche stuff sack per Western Mountaineering, definitely smaller than an average coffee can. Obviously a colder weather bag takes up dramatically more room.
Just Bill
06-18-2014, 16:00
You're thinking the right thoughts...
Bulk/volume is a decent chunk of the equation and should influence all your choices.
Not that this stands alone but-
Three season synthetic homemade quilt(2.5APEX/M50- see thru-hiker.com)- about a nalgene- but I don't pack it that tight because it's synthetic. About 13oz.
New bag- ordered the Sea to Summit Spark I- hasn't arrived yet- but it is dri-down and expected to go to Nalgene size or less if compressed. Also about 13oz.
Most would call those summer bags though- but with my system do work into the 30's.
A 5.0 oz APEX quilt is about coffee can sized or so- and weighs about 12 more oz. and would be a better 3 season item.
A typical 32 degree higher quality down filled bag/quilt can be expected to hit that Nalgene or coffee can size and better meet most folks idea of a three season bag for 16-24 oz.
Different Socks
06-18-2014, 16:01
North Face 3 season bag.
My EE 20 degree quilt in a stuff sack is pretty big around. I don't use a compression sack, but am guessing it is the size of about two nalgene bottles. But, I put it at the bottom of my pack laying on its side (cylinder shape is going across the pack, not up and down). Then I push my jet boil on its side down to the bottom as well. They fit side by side as the bag compresses to allow the jet boil to fit. Then I just stuff things down on top, and it forces the bag to compress.
Honestly, not sure what it ends up being at the end, but it packs down pretty small!
flemdawg1
06-18-2014, 16:46
I have an older Golite 1 season Quilt (40 deg), it's 16oz and about the size of a nalgene if I use the OEM stuff sack. I mostly use a lighter cuben sack that brings down to 2 nalgene size.
flemdawg1
06-18-2014, 16:47
And the quilt is down, I'm not sure of the FP.
FarmerChef
06-18-2014, 16:54
My winter stuff is sized for 2 so it's not terribly helpful. But our summer bags are our bags. Each is a flannel bag liner that rolls up about the size of 1.5 Nalgene bottles. We don't compress it or it would definitely fit inside a nalgene bottle. Our Apex 20 degree quilts sized for 2.5 people compress down to the size of a basketball. I could probably go smaller but don't in hopes of not compressing the insulation too tightly between nights.
Mountain Hardwear Phantom 45 is my 3-season bag; I stuff it into a plain silnylon bag, about 2-quart volume. 800 down fill. Weighs 19 oz. Very happy with it.
I use a Golite UL-20 quilt (old style) weighs about 20oz.. I pack it loose so no clue how tight it packs since it conforms to the rest of my gear, suspect it is about a two leader bottle. If weight and volume is what you are optimizing then a good down bag or quilt will likely be the lightest and least volume. From there you get the question of quilt vs. bag. A quilt will be less volume and weight and I have found that it gives me the biggest bang for the ounce. Different brands etc..... That's ford vs. Chevy in my mind. The laws of physics apply to both and I suspect you will see much difference in a head to head, apples to apples comparison.
bigcranky
06-19-2014, 00:57
I have three bags, bought over the last ten or twelve years, mostly on sale. My winter bag is a 5F rated down bag which is still pretty large in a compression sack - takes up a lot of room in the pack, but that thing is *warm*. My three season bag is a 30F rated down bag which I can easily stuff into the bottom of my pack with plenty of room left over. My summer quilt weighs 17 ounces and stuffs to the size of a softball. It's good to the low 40s.
fredmugs
06-19-2014, 09:21
Sea to Summit Micro II. Can operate as a mummy or a quilt and packs down to a Nalgene-ish size.
Turk6177
06-19-2014, 10:18
I have a Western Mountaineering Alpinlite (20 degree) and Mitylite (40 degree) bag. Both are down. I use one of these to stuff them into (although I am not sure what size).http://www.seatosummit.com/products/display/39 All I know is when it is compressed, the size of my bags is around the size of a 4 qt. kitchen pot. For another reference, I would say it is a little smaller than a volleyball but flat on both ends.
shakey_snake
06-19-2014, 11:51
the sleeping bag is an important part of using a frameless pack. It scrunches down in the bottom of my pack however much it needs to in order to accommodate my food bag and everything else. I've never used a compression sack or even a stuff sack, so I'm afraid I can't be much more precise.
But the point is: if there's room, you want the sleeping bag to expand to fill it, so the pack stays relatively stiff and carries properly.
My current three workhorses: 1) Feathered Friends Swallow UL 20* long 900 down crunches up to about 6-7"X 12" 2) Western Mountaineering 35* Highlite long 850+ down crunches up to 6"x 12" 3) Enlightened Equipment Prodigy 50* long length, reg width, 10D Phantom face and interior fabrics, synthetic Climashield Apex 2.1 crunches down to smaller than 6"x12" but I'm not going to get it right now and jam it into a stuff sack to get the exact stuffed dimensions right now. I'm looking at possibly adding a 40-50* Revelation Pro 900 Hyper Dry Down to that list which will probably crunch down smaller than the 50* synthetic Prodigy.
It's my guess for those just starting to downsize volume their shelters and food stuff sacks and, perhaps, the amount of clothing they take may be as great or greater in volume as their sleeping bags in many of their kits. Downsizing these things snowballs into using a smaller volume and hopefully a lighter wt backpack. One of the final things I did, after I downsized the volume of all those things, that allowed me to comfortably use the ULA CDT for the majority of my 3 season long distance trips was storing my water on the outside of my pack. I think the final straw in doing this was having better water logistics overall but carrying up to 2 L of water on the front of my shoulder straps really helped.
Now, after using the ULA CDT for several yrs I'm ready to downsize and lower the wt of that backpack I can use on a large % of my U.S. long distance thru-hiking on a trail trips. A Zpacks and/or Hyperlight Mountain Gear hybrid cuben pack may be in my near future. Taking about those backpacks means replacing those backpacks more often at a higher per backpack cost than the ULA CDT though to save the volume/wt.
Ever notice those with the lightest kits? Either they are gear junkies that don't put in the miles I do or they are yearly, some even semi annually, replacing critical pieces of rather expensive gear. I haven't hit the lottery yet so I have to factor costs into my gear. Sorry, if I hijacked your thread.
Downsizing these things snowballs into using a smaller volume and hopefully a lighter wt backpack.
It's called a virtuous circle. Make one thing better and it turns out something else can be improved. I have two GG backpacks, the Vapor Trail and Nimbus Ozone. The VT is only 2 lbs. but maxes out at a load of around 25-30 lbs. The NO is 3 lbs, but can carry much more load. So when the load is light, you get to save a pound of pack weight. Cut the load even more, the pack gets lighter still. I know that smart AT thru-hikers have used the VT, but unfortunately I'm not that smart -- I'm still dependent on the extra stiffness and volume of the Nimbus Ozone. (Not that 3 lbs. is much of a problem, but ULers are using sub-1-lb. packs.)
Yes, if everyone did the correct thing, and borrowed or rented gear for their initial foray into backpacking...then, assuming they caught the bug, proceeded to get advice from those in the know, they would buy the light weight set up first...
But, like my wife and I, here is the typical cycle:
Buy low end stuff at Dick's to see if you like backpacking.
FInd out you really like it, so buy a step up from Dick's, still ignorant of asking advice from those in the know.
Find out from those in the know that you could have done it better, and proceed to buy lighter weight stuff.
Most of us end up spending a lot of extra cash because we are ignorant.
We ended up with a Tarptent SS 2 (our 4th tent), Enlightened Equipment Quilts (our 2nd sleeping bags), and lighter backpacks (my 3rd and latest is a Talon 44...first one was a Field and Stream).
We always laugh about the phrase "If I only had that _____, my set up would be awesome and complete." But we say that same phrase after every trip when we see what everyone else has!
We always laugh about the phrase "If I only had that _____, my set up would be awesome and complete." But we say that same phrase after every trip when we see what everyone else has!
I'm over that. Really. It's a good feeling. Unless something in my kit breaks or wears out, I'm good to go. There's not a stitch of Cuben fiber in my kit, and I'm OK with that. I've been thinking of replacing my Lekis, because one pole is slightly bent. They're 14 years old and awfully beat up.
Another Kevin
06-19-2014, 20:40
There's also something to be said for trading up in gear. You don't want to get the mondo-expensive stuff until you know your personal style.
I'm a daytripper, peakbagger, clueless weekender, occasional short-sectioner. I'm not putting in the big miles, so I don't mind going a little heavy. But I do it year round in the Northeast, so I also need some serious winter gear. It would have been a waste of money for me to go off buying the tiny backpack that looks like plastic wrap, or the super-ultralight quilt. I don't have that kind of money to spend on a summer-only kit. The last time I was gear shopping, I decided I needed crampons and an ice axe more than I needed lighter warm-weather gear.
Ever notice those with the lightest kits? Either they are gear junkies that don't put in the miles I do or they are yearly, some even semi annually, replacing critical pieces of rather expensive gear. I haven't hit the lottery yet so I have to factor costs into my gear. Sorry, if I hijacked your thread.
I just got done hiking with three folks this spring and all are lighter weight than you, none are gear junkies, they all will put in more miles than you, are using essentially the same gear for thousands of miles without replacing major pieces of gear. I think you generalized just a bit. If you are coming out to ALDHA west I'm sure you will meet a dozen more. Having said that, there are a lot of gear whores that spend more time talking about the gear than using it. Hence all the great gear "that has only been used once."
Different Socks
06-19-2014, 21:29
Well, for now I've decided to stay with the bag I've got and get a pack that I can strap it on the outside. That's right, I'm an external frame hiker!! For my future loooonnnngggg hike(1000's of miles), I'll probably switch to a down bag that will scrunch down to a Nalgene or so size.
Thanks everyone for all the input.
Well, for now I've decided to stay with the bag I've got and get a pack that I can strap it on the outside. That's right, I'm an external frame hiker!! My people! I had an external until last year. I sewed a collar on it and was able to fit my beach ball sized synthetic sleeping bag inside (I didn't even attempt to smash it down... no point). Only thing I had hanging off of it was the tent. New hip belt and straps and it was pretty comfy!
Only bad thing, the pack was so ratty... I was mistaken in South Lake Tahoe for a homeless person. Worst of all... the guy who thought I was a homeless person was a homeless person. Asked me if I had a place to sleep and I was welcome to sleep under a diesel truck with him. :(
My dh was horrified and kind of "made" me get a new bag. :)
We just got back from Yosemite. My son wore the external frame. I found new pack/bag for the frame, since it would be borderline abusive to dress him like a homeless person. I do miss those external frame poles sticking up. They were the best place for drying socks.
Somebody posted last week that the important thing is to get out. Can get out just fine with sub-par stuff. I thought of that all weekend with our external frame pack, $5 purple thrift store ski poles, and a 10 year old KMart dome tent. We have other expensive stuff, too. Not total dirt bags! And obviously, the dome tent is for fair weather and wouldn't work on a long hike. But it works for nice weekends just fine. I can't see dh wanting to do more than that.
Too late at night to figure out how to embed a photo. :( Flickr link to our mishmash of old and new stuff. https://www.flickr.com/photos/50951735@N05/sets/72157645222900135/ Sounds like we are pretty "normal", in that regard. Who goes out and buys all new stuff for the entire family every time a new model is released? :)
"Homeless person" backpack: https://www.flickr.com/photos/50951735@N05/6046130716/in/set-72157627315606441
PS... Why are you pessimistic? What are you pessimistic about? Maybe I missed something.
yerbyray
06-20-2014, 10:13
Yes, if everyone did the correct thing, and borrowed or rented gear for their initial foray into backpacking...then, assuming they caught the bug, proceeded to get advice from those in the know, they would buy the light weight set up first...
But, like my wife and I, here is the typical cycle:
Buy low end stuff at Dick's to see if you like backpacking.
FInd out you really like it, so buy a step up from Dick's, still ignorant of asking advice from those in the know.
Find out from those in the know that you could have done it better, and proceed to buy lighter weight stuff.
Most of us end up spending a lot of extra cash because we are ignorant.
We ended up with a Tarptent SS 2 (our 4th tent), Enlightened Equipment Quilts (our 2nd sleeping bags), and lighter backpacks (my 3rd and latest is a Talon 44...first one was a Field and Stream).
We always laugh about the phrase "If I only had that _____, my set up would be awesome and complete." But we say that same phrase after every trip when we see what everyone else has!
I think this applicable for just about any sport that involves gear. Someone needs to coin a term describing this evolution of gear, something like EEE "Equipment Evolution Epidemic." An illness that is perpetuated by magazines and internet forums that convinces a rational person to buy the "latest and greatest" when they were just fine with what they had.
I don't see how Daniel Boone slept one night in the woods comfortably.
I too am Powerless over my addiction to hiking equipment and also I person who doesn't do change well, and double and triple the rethinking. Like now Just Kevin has me thinking about going back to syn instead of down just because it works when wet. Although all of us experienced hikers know its whats under that matters the most when it's cold outside. Which is one of the reasons JK got me thinking again it's the quilt instead of bag concept. Have zero experience in using a quilt and am thinking its an area I was remiss in exploring over all these years. One lesson learned after years of just being too old school is that one doesn't want to purchase based on price. That lesson cost me a lot of loot. But the flip side of the coin is I can certainly outfit several people if they express a desire to head out with me.
BuckeyeBill
06-21-2014, 00:50
I'm over that. Really. It's a good feeling. Unless something in my kit breaks or wears out, I'm good to go. There's not a stitch of Cuben fiber in my kit, and I'm OK with that. I've been thinking of replacing my Lekis, because one pole is slightly bent. They're 14 years old and awfully beat up.
Leki poles are guaranteed for life. Go to your local dealer for assistance.
For lightweight, consider a down bag which compresses well and is rated for 0 Celsius (32F). This will be warm enough for most conditions. I have a Western Mountaineering bag that compresses down to the size of a 1 L Nalgene bottle. Very light! and so convenient to have a comfy bag that light and take up no space.
Get a good brand - the Mountain Hardwear, Western Mountaineering...