View Full Version : Don't want to seam seal OR to pole or not to pole
Dilemma, give me some opinions. I've been checking out every possible tent design, and here's where I'm stuck.
I want a tarptent but don't want the laborious process of doing my own seam sealing, yuck...I'll probably do it wrong. Any tarptents that are already seam sealed, and if not...I wonder why they leave out this very important aspect of shelter.
I like using my own trekking poles as poles mainly because I don't want to carry extra weight ......but looking at some of the newer tents MSR, Big Agnes, etc. etc. many have very light poles.
I like the idea of freestanding and don't really like the idea of having to stake a tent, especially in bad weather, but it seems to work for most.
What would you suggest? (other than sleep in shelters all the time, or buy a hammock)
Seam sealing is easy, you just need a little space to hang the thing up to cure. I used silicone seam sealer right out of the tube, and it worked out fine. I've seam sealed coated nylon with the stuff in the plastic bottle, and found it easy, too.
I don't know what to tell you about the pole issue. I use a flat, rectangular tarp, and tie it to a tree, and/or use my trekking poles. Of course, I have no bug protection as with many tarp tents, but I like simple things, so I put up with the bugs.
fiddlehead
10-02-2005, 08:37
Check out Integral Designs "Sil shelter" you can sew about 8" of bug netting on the bottom and the end, and it'll be fairly bugproof. If you don't want to seamseal, get a dryloft bag as you may get wet, (or just spend the 2 hours it takes and do it)
It's a bombproof tent (after seamsealing) and very lightweight (12 or 13 oz) i've had mine for years now and it's held up very well.
Footslogger
10-02-2005, 12:06
As already pointed out ...seam sealing isn't all that "laborious" and it's pretty hard to do it wrong. That said, you can most likely get the vendor to seal it for you at an added price.
On the pole issue ...I would take a look at the Six Moon Design Lunar Sole-e.
http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/shop/shopexd.asp?id=36
It requires only one pole and you trekking pole will do the trick. I went through somewhat the same process when I was looking for a new tent. I don't like the idea of carrying a separate pole (regardless of its weight) that only serves to hold up the tent, especially when I've already got 2 trekking poles.
'Slogger
I like that one FootSlogger, thanks. What kind of stakes do you use? I'm concerned with weight and also have you ever experienced set up where the ground is not stake friendy at a particular location...looks like it wouldn't stand up without all six, your take?
Take a look at Black Diamond's line of single wall tents. They are free standing, light, and not as uber expensive as the mountaineering versions. For example, the Firstlight weighs in at a claimed 2 lbs 11 oz and costs $300. It lacks a vestibule, however (another $130 bucks).
I really like the Lunar Solo from Six Moon Designs, although I haven't spent any nights in it as my Tarp Tent Virga is still alive, for now. The Lunar Solo seems to solve a lot of the problems that I have with the Virga, though it costs a bit and I can just barely fit in it length-wise (a 6'6" sleeping bag can just get inside without touching the ends). This runs $235 and you need to either use a trekking pole or buy a tarp pole (my carbon fiber one is about 1.5 oz), and buy stakes. I've come to appreciate solid weather protection and will pay more for it, though on the AT the presence of shelters makes this less important.
If I was going to hike a large chunk of the AT, I would seriously look at hammocks. The type of terrain encountered there makes finding spur-of-the-moment spots acceptable for tarps or tents very difficult. That is, you can't just hike until a time, say 8:30 pm, and decide to stop where you are, like on the PCT.
Note: Take a look as well at Dancing Light's gear. You can pay them a few dollars to seam seal their tarps for you.
Some relevant links:
http://www.bdel.com
http://www.sixmoondesigns.com
http://www.trailquest.net/store.html
The Virga is my second choice right now. Any problems with it? Thanks so much for the links, I want to make the right choice with such a large purchase. I already have an MSR Room with a View (for 2) it's an EXCELLENT tent, but too heavy for just me ( just under 6 lbs packed). The dancing light products look pretty cool as well....I wonder about floor seepage with an ultralight/sinylon floor. The Black Diamond shelter is pretty cool too and light for having poles.
Ahhhh, I am sure many here have spent lots of time getting a shelter for their thru...I want to get this soon so it's out of the way, maybe I can find a used one somewhere as well.
Footslogger
10-02-2005, 17:07
What kind of stakes do you use? I'm concerned with weight and also have you ever experienced set up where the ground is not stake friendy at a particular location...looks like it wouldn't stand up without all six, your take?============================================= ===
I use the 6" titanium shepard hooks ...and yes, you need all 6 stakes to get a good pitch. But at .25 oz per stake it's not a big compromise. Haven't been this satisfied with a tent of any sort in a long time. Thru-hiked the AT in 2003 with a Wanderlust Nomad (since sold) and really didn't like having to stick 2 poles INSIDE the tent. With the Lunar Solo-e you stake out the 5 points, raise your pole under the front side, pull the line taut and drive the final stake. Loads of room inside for me and my pack. Easy to get in and out of and the fly front slides up and down the line to allow for excellent ventilation. You can even roll back half of the front fly and velcro it down to the tent if the weathe allows.
'Slogger
Lucy Lulu
10-02-2005, 17:24
I used the Black Diamond, First Light for about six months. It is an awesome tent, and I've had a few, but it does need to be seam sealed regularly if used consistently. Honestly though, for the space and weight, I would have to say it is far and above my favorite tent.
The Virga is my second choice right now. Any problems with it?
There are a couple. First, silnylon sags when wet, even under condensation. This can be battled by pitching the tarp1/2 hour to 1 hour before you go to bed. Then, restake the tarp for tautness. Without a tautness, weather protection is compromised.
Second, it needs gutters on the sides. The silnylon ends right where the mosquito netting begins. Rain can run down the tarp, hit the netting, and then run down the netting on to the ground cloth (I use a floorless model).
Third, if you are above about 6', you can forget about sitting up normally. The Virga is exactly the size you need for sleeping or lounging, not for being lazy in: Width is limited as well. If you want to knock boots with someone, get the Squall.
All that being said, I've enjoyed using the Virga. I put 1150 miles on it on the AT in 2004, then the GDT, a lot of weekend and weeklong trips here in Washington, and a month on the CDT. It is starting to age with some thread-degradation in certain areas. Depending on what I do next summer, I may or may not replace it. Properly pitched and bathtubbed (again, I don't have a floor), it provides good weather protection under the rain. When I'm on the market for another tarp, I'll seriously consider Henry's design again. However, a lot will depend on what I want to do with it. On the AT, with the sort of weather you might get there and the presence of shelters, I'd either take the Virga or buy a CAT tarp from Oware. I'm not sure the weather strength of the Six Moon Designs is really necessary on the AT, unless you absolutely hate shelters.
Chris, excellent throrough advice! I'm thinking it through some more, thanks for your input. Doesn't the virga offer a floor model? I'm wondering about the gutters, you mentioned it "needs gutters on the sides" does this come with how you pitch the tent? I wish they had these at my local outfitters so i could take it out back and try a pitch myself.
Footslogger
10-03-2005, 12:26
Smile ...I posted earlier about the Lunar Solo-e but I should mention that I own the Tarptent Squall also and really like it. However, as I already said, you have to carry an extra pole (rear hoop) with that tent. While it's not a big deal it is one more thing you have to pack and keep track of. As Chris pointed out, the Virga is just enough for one person so if there's a chance you'll be doubling up or wanting a little extra room for your gear you might want to take a look at the Squall model. That's why we got it. We have the bathtub floor in ours and have never had a problem with rain. Might just be an optical illusion but when you have a sewn-in floor you tend to stay well away from the tent sides (gutters) and the rain is channelled out beyond your sleeping area.
'Slogger
Oh, oK, that explains it, so hard to really get the "feel" for a tent from a photo! Will check out the weight of the squall. I like to mess with my gear "inside", wow, I guess I really want it all dont' I? LOL, I need to be less picky I guess! Weight is paramount though ;-)
Ok, looked at these, one more question, I see that with the Squall 2 they have one pole or two used, but what it the thing at the top that is making the "T" shape? is this some sort of pole or plastic piece?
Footslogger
10-03-2005, 13:01
Ok, looked at these, one more question, I see that with the Squall 2 they have one pole or two used, but what it the thing at the top that is making the "T" shape? is this some sort of pole or plastic piece?============================================
I've got the original Squall that uses a single hiking pole in the front. The Squall 2 awning has 2 grommets/stake out points to open up the front of the tent a bit more and from what I understand there is a little spreader pole that makes the those 2 points stand out a bit from the tent.
'Slogger
Oh, oK, that explains it, so hard to really get the "feel" for a tent from a photo! Will check out the weight of the squall. I like to mess with my gear "inside", wow, I guess I really want it all dont' I? LOL, I need to be less picky I guess! Weight is paramount though ;-)
The Squall doesn't weigh much more than the Virga. Something like 4 oz. It does have a much bigger foot print, however. That is, you need significantly more clear, flat ground in order to pitch it. The Virga has exactly the right amount of space for me, but no more. That is, I use up most of the area. If you are thinking about the Squall instead, you might also consider the Cloudburst, which has a similar area and slightly different features.
Most people have a sewn in floor. Here are some reasons that I don't:
1) Flexibility. If I want to sleep out, I just toss out my ground cloth rather than sleeping on my tarp and possibly damaging it.
2) Flexibility. Even if the ground isn't completely clear, I can pitch over minor obstacles which might hurt the floor when you sleep on it and weight it.
3) Protection. I tend to pitch, at times, in burly areas. I'm worried that the silnylon floor will puncture. Although patching silnylon isn't super tough, I'd rather just spring for another $2 2 mil painters drop cloth.
The Lunar Solo has gutters on it, which is nice.
fiddlehead
10-04-2005, 07:47
In regards to the problem of pitching a tarp when the ground is just too hard or rocky to get a stake in, here's what the Sherpa's in Nepal do when in that situation: Tie your point (corner or whatever) to a rock or even a piece of wood,(or even the stake) and pile rocks on top. we've spent many nights above 15,000 feet in huge winds in the Himalayas using this method with no worries.
Also, many times you can angle the stake really hard (45+degrees) point towards the tent if there are rocks just below the surface. If in doubt that it'll hold, just pile rocks on top of that. (You should put the rocks back where you found them in the morning for "no trace" camping of course)
Thanks fiddlehead, excellent advice!
njkayaker
10-12-2005, 18:35
"I wonder why they leave out this very important aspect [ie, seam sealing] of shelter."
Some tents do come "seam sealed" (eg, MSR Hubba) but many (most?) do not.
The reason all tents are not seam sealed is cost. I suspect that it would be a manual process. You could tape the seams but that might be too heavy. Also, one has to have the tent open (sucks up space) and wait for the sealant to dry (sucks up time). All of these would increase the price of the tent drastically.
Can anyone suggest the best product to seam seal a sil nylon tent, preferably one 'out of the tube'...I think I read somewhere that you can only use silicon, and NOT polyurethane.
We do offer seam-sealing, if you ask nicely ;-)
Cost is $10 and you just need to request it in the comments field.
Also, I guess this is as good a thread as any to announce the newest Tarptent:
http://www.tarptent.com/new.html
It's free-standing (with trekking poles) or easily staked, has tons of head and leg room with a tiny footprint, and under 2 pounds.
Henry Shires
Tarptent
Wow, great design - looks like this one will be a success...looking forward to reading the reviews. Thanks for the heads up about the seam sealing - a service I'm glad you offer - kudos!
justusryans
11-28-2005, 20:36
Verrrrry nice. I still think I'll keep my Cloudburst though!
Verrrrry nice. I still think I'll keep my Cloudburst though!
Thanks Ryans, glad you like the Cloudburst 2. The Rainbow isn't a Clouburst 2 replacement but is another option for solo sheltering and is a design that hasn't been done before. I loved living in it for a few weeks on the Colorado Trail in September and it will certainly be my shelter of choice in '06.
-H
hikerjohnd
11-28-2005, 21:51
We do offer seam-sealing, if you ask nicely ;-)
Cost is $10 and you just need to request it in the comments field.
Also, I guess this is as good a thread as any to announce the newest Tarptent:
http://www.tarptent.com/new.html
It's free-standing (with trekking poles) or easily staked, has tons of head and leg room with a tiny footprint, and under 2 pounds.
Henry Shires
Tarptent
The new tent looks pretty sweet! Looking forward to seeing reviews!