View Full Version : How do YOU explore new, unmarked trails safely?
Ricky&Jack
06-30-2014, 08:04
When I was on a local hike with the Chattanooga Hiking Club last week, we went on a trail in Signal Mountain Tennessee.
It had no blazes, and since it's newer, there was no map available.
We relied on using 'instincts' when we came to numerous trail intersections and river crossings, to determine which as the most likely route to stay on. I believe during the 2miles each way, there was 6 or so crossings and it did not look obvious to me which was the correct one. But we prevailed.
Since our group of 20 was divided by the faster and slower members, when we came to an intersection up front, we would mark the ground with an 'aarow' made of corn meal so that the people in back would know which way we went.
I thought that was cleaver, and was wondering what do you do if you are exploring an unmarked trail alone, for the first time, without getting lost?
I'm wanting to explore the Cohuttta/Chattahoochee forests here in N. GA but the trails are mostly non-marked. I think theres 200miles on 20 trails or something big like that.
How do you not get lost when it's unmarked and has many crossings? Do you take neon-ribbon and mark trees every few hundred feet? (I'm assuming it's wrong to take a can of spray-paint and to blaze the trees yourself.)
Whats your method?
Take a compass and keep notes on a pad as to what direction you are moving and how long you are moving in that direction. It doesn't hurt to have some bright ribbon to mark a split trail. If you have a GPS with a loaded map of the area-- well, that works too.
fiddlehead
06-30-2014, 08:24
Well, when I do it here in the jungles of Thailand, I first research where I'm going on Google Earth.
I either create a route on GE and upload it to my GPS, or, I just make a few waypoints that I know are points that I want to make sure I hit.
(when you hover over a point, the lat/long is displayed at the bottom and it's easy to make a waypoint out of that)
If I was with a group and had to mark trail, I think I'd use the method that the Hash House Harriers use: They drop a handful of colored paper squares or confetti to mark the correct way. This disintegrates fairly quickly in the hot and humid jungle.
If I was in the states, probably your cornmeal would do it. (probably would draw mice later but no big deal)
But, I would definitely have some waypoints and a few of the hikers would carry a gps with them installed.
When I hiked most of CO (CDT) in snow, back in 2002, we used this method and after a while, you can pretty much feel the philosophy of the trail: does it stay always on top like the AT, or tend to be on the leeward side about 100 feet down from the top like the PCT?
If you are bushwhacking, again, the waypoints you install will always let you know if you are off by much.
I love this kind of hiking, with no trail. But, doing it in a big group would create some new problems for sure.
Good luck.
rocketsocks
06-30-2014, 08:37
One thing I always do is when turning off of an intersection, I then turn and look back at it to burn a mental picture into my mind, and what the area looks like should I return that way.
A good read is the book "The Tracker" by Tom Brown an older little dime store book that'll run ya about five bucks.
It had no blazes, and since it's newer, there was no map available.
While there are no recreational hiking maps, there are almost certainly 7.5 minute topos for that area. Newer buildings, roads and other man-made structures may have changed, but the topographical features should still apply.
check it out :)
http://geology.isu.edu/geostac/Field_Exercise/topomaps/map_scale.htm
Free topos can be found here (among other places)
http://www.pickatrail.com/interact/search.html
Do you take neon-ribbon and mark trees every few hundred feet?
Please don't use manufactured things that leave an eyesore in the woods. Blazes can be fashioned from anything natural that is handy. Rocks. Sticks. Scratching a directional pointer in the dirt (unless it looks like rain). Whatever you can find in the area. Surveyor's tape should be avoided. That stuff will be around forever. Personally, the corn meal thing isn't what I would do. Let the critters find their own food. The next thing you know, raccoons, mice, deer, bears, etc. will be hanging out at trail intersections waiting for a handout. :D :cool:
If you want to get really creative and have the right materials at hand, practice making an inukshuk (http://www.inukshukgallery.com/inukshuk.html) to mark the trail.
https://www.google.com/search?q=inukshuk&espv=2&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=pGGxU-CQLIy0yASBrIHgCw&ved=0CEoQsAQ&biw=1600&bih=1115
Glad you are on the trail and learning by doing.
Wayne
WingedMonkey
06-30-2014, 09:43
Surveyor's tape should be avoided. That stuff will be around forever.
I'll second that. Too often you come across some neon plastic tape on a tree or bush and you don't know if it's a trail or a survey line or where some hunter found game (or killed game).
Also a good reason to avoid following these tapes. They could be a new trailway or one of the other. Or down here the path to a hog trap.
Not sure I would go without a topo map and compass. Than in a spread out group I would preset rallying points where members of the group could meet up every few hours. I'd make sure at least one member of each group was an experienced map & compass person. Also might bring short range radios where cell phones do not work. For markers I'd try and use rocks or branches that would point in the direction traveled.
I'll second that. Too often you come across some neon plastic tape on a tree or bush and you don't know if it's a trail or a survey line or where some hunter found game (or killed game).
Also a good reason to avoid following these tapes. They could be a new trailway or one of the other. Or down here the path to a hog trap.
Along the lines of knowing which blaze you put down, make yours personal. Some design that you recognize as yours. You might run into another arrow. Is it yours? Personalized blazes will avoid following someone else's marks on the trail.
In that regard, I suppose the cornmeal was unique to your group hike. In that case it was ok. Just having a bit of fun about the critters waiting for handouts along the trail.
Wayne
Last Call
06-30-2014, 10:56
Isn't cornmeal rather heavy?
Another Kevin
06-30-2014, 11:14
Take a compass and keep notes on a pad as to what direction you are moving and how long you are moving in that direction. It doesn't hurt to have some bright ribbon to mark a split trail. If you have a GPS with a loaded map of the area-- well, that works too.
It had no blazes, and since it's newer, there was no map available.
While there are no recreational hiking maps, there are almost certainly 7.5 minute topos for that area. Newer buildings, roads and other man-made structures may have changed, but the topographical features should still apply.
check it out :)
http://geology.isu.edu/geostac/Field_Exercise/topomaps/map_scale.htm
Free topos can be found here (among other places)
http://www.pickatrail.com/interact/search.html
+1 to both of these. Essentially, I always am aware that a trip on unblazed trail can turn into an orienteering trip at any time. So I plan accordingly and treat it as a bushwhack from the start, with the unblazed trail as a convenient handrail. I bring whatever topographic map I have available, my compass, my wrist altimeter (nowadays, an altimeter watch will set you back less than $100 - a great investment if you plan to do bushwhacking) and a GPS/smartphone. (The last is mostly a toy to record tracks for my trip reports. I assume that if I need it for navigation, the need will come immediately after either the battery has run out or I've dropped and broken it.)
I use flagging tape ONLY when I'm on trail crew - which I haven't done in a long time, sorry! Occasionally, if things are extremely confusing, I'll build a duck cairn or tie a knot in a tuft of grass or fern. On the rare occasions that I resort to marking my path, I try to erase my marks on the return trip - break ducks, knock down hanging twigs, disguise knotted grass - so as not to leave confusion behind for others.
Bushwhacking in a big group is Not Done around here. (If I recall correctly, you're supposed to split any group that exceeds 20 on trail or eight off trail.) In any case, on off-trail hikes I plan, either the whole group stays in sight of one another, or else the leader and the sweep hiker at least stay in contact by whistle.
I started to write a whole long post on capture features, handrails, aiming off, attack points, and collecting features... but then I caught myself. Because for off-trail travel you really need to learn by going on a few trips with someone that knows how. Start off with a trip like http://sectionhiker.com/navigating-with-erratic-trail-blazes/ . Join an orienteering club and learn stuff like http://qoc.nova.org/5_skills.htm . Work up to hiking from other people's trip reports, like http://www.vftt.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2855&d=1256966818 , Then you'll be ready to start planning your own trips using only topos and satellite photos.
It's fun. About a third of my hikes involve some bushwhacking. Trails are suggestions.
Ricky&Jack
06-30-2014, 11:29
Isn't cornmeal rather heavy?
I wasn't carrying it. But it was in a tall plastic water bottle. It didn't wake much to make a 12inch "aarow" at a few intersections.
And you guys are awesome. Cleaver ideas. I didn't even think of the "using a compass and writing down how long I was going a certain direction etc". And the "use rocks/sticks as a marker" is pretty cleaver.
I'll be sure to avoid neon surveyors ribbon.
I've never had to use a compass before, and this would be a fun way to learn.
Ricky&Jack
06-30-2014, 11:49
If you want to get really creative and have the right materials at hand, practice making an inukshuk (http://www.inukshukgallery.com/inukshuk.html) to mark the trail.
https://www.google.com/search?q=inukshuk&espv=2&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=pGGxU-CQLIy0yASBrIHgCw&ved=0CEoQsAQ&biw=1600&bih=1115
Glad you are on the trail and learning by doing.
Wayne
I wonder what giant made this inukshuk?
http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b607/Ricky_Sanftner/MushRock_zpsc53ec8b1.jpg (http://s1294.photobucket.com/user/Ricky_Sanftner/media/MushRock_zpsc53ec8b1.jpg.html)
(This is "mushroom rock" located about 35miles from my home, near Chattanooga/Signal-Mountain)
I'll be sure to avoid neon surveyors ribbon. I took a wrong turn and walked about 6 extra miles one day following neon ribbon somebody had put up for some 100 mile race the previous weekend. I found out about the race after I got home.
It was near a lake and my map was inaccurate and showed the trail going on the South side of the lake and really the trail went along the North side. 3 different trails converged at this spot and there were 4 more paths that looked like trails but really weren't. I thought, "This ribbon must mean something..." so I followed the ribbons (there were LOTS of them) for a while.
It also occured to me that the ribbons where just trash left on a trail, and I considered putting them in the trash bag. In my case, that was pretty accurate. Somebody might think that your ribbons are trash, so that it is good that you are not using that method. ;)
Kids also like to play with stick arrows on the trail and will turn them around or kick the sticks or whatever. But I'm guessing you are the only person or group on the trail, if you are needing to leave clues to get you back to your car.
peakbagger
06-30-2014, 11:53
Group bushwhacks can be difficult as in many situations there are leaders and followers. Sometime the leaders may be clueless but others follow. Everyone in the group should have basic navigation skills and all should carry maps. I personally have been on a couple group bushwhacks where to so called leader took wrong turns. If one person is leading and the others following than the group has to figure a way of staying together and that means stopping at trail intersections. If the group is spread out than its a recipe for lost hikers unless everyone is actively navigating which is rare.
One of New Englands best known hiking guide editors was somewhat infamous on occasion for ending up group hikes to obscure summits on the wrong side of the mountain miles away from the car. Luckily even a cheap GPS with good batteries and a couple of waypoints programmed in advance can keep someone from really getting lost.
Another Kevin
06-30-2014, 13:02
One of New Englands best known hiking guide editors was somewhat infamous on occasion for ending up group hikes to obscure summits on the wrong side of the mountain miles away from the car. Luckily even a cheap GPS with good batteries and a couple of waypoints programmed in advance can keep someone from really getting lost.
:D I've been on trips like that! (I think I may even have been hiking on a trip led by that infamous guidebook editor.)
Some of my "imaginary friends" have similar hilarious stories. http://35peaksin30days.blogspot.com/2010/11/lone-rocky-mountains-3721-3508-feet.html Hilarious.
When I lead a bushwhack, we go at the pace of the slowest hiker. If I've a trustworthy second, one of us will be on point and the other on sweep. Otherwise, I'll typically "lead from behind" and warn hikers that if they lose sight of the hiker ahead or behind, they need to close up ranks. And I try hard to make sure that the slowest hiker gets time for adequate breaks.
Tennessee Viking
06-30-2014, 13:11
Just get some flagging ribbon at Lowes or Home Depot. Very cheap and plentiful. Biodegrades fairly quickly.
Offshore
06-30-2014, 13:35
Just get some flagging ribbon at Lowes or Home Depot. Very cheap and plentiful. Biodegrades fairly quickly.
Not if its plastic, it doesn't. I just checked Home Depot's web site and they offer 47 types of flagging tape and flags - all plastic and some even marketed as long-lasting and/or reusable. Lowe's offers 15 varieties - again all plastic and "long-lasting". I've used flags and flagging for 30 years professionally and have never come across paper flagging. For survey demarkation and sampling, short-lived is exactly opposite of what you want.
Do the rest of us trail users a favor by not defacing the outdoors and spring for a handheld GPS. For $119 list price, you can get one that lets you set 1000 waypoints and 50 routes. The usual disclaimers about reliance on electronics apply - but if you have limited orienteering and/or navigation skills then blazing new trails may not be the wisest activity.
Ricky&Jack
06-30-2014, 13:38
is flagging tape not the same as those pink/orange surveyor ribbons people are saying not to use?
Didn't know anything was biodegradable
**EDIT: I was writing this before the post above, showed up**
turtle fast
06-30-2014, 13:56
The simplest old fashioned way is to get some already downed sticks and make an arrow pointing the way. Easy-peasy.
In the situation you describe you were in a National Forest, only going 2 miles, were on an organized hike with the Chattanooga Hiking Club, and in all most likelihood having a darn good idea of your destination. Just because the trail wasn't yet on maps(some aren't!) still use GPS/maps and/or map/compass to get you to your destination and back to you starting pt. The trail is incidental. If you're on an organized outing I sincerely hope someone in your party has, at the least, an overview, preferably topo map and compass and has some navigational skills with SOME familiarity with the area especially if they are leading a group planning on or hiking on unfamiliar route/trail. Take notes/bearings at junctions, leave trail markings/cairns, etc IF you are heading back the way you came. A simple small stick leaning up against a tree or a rock/stick arrow could tell you the direction you must go back too. If it's a new trail and in a Nat Forest it was prolly routed, designed, OKed and will prolly be maintained by FS personnel/Hiking Club who have basically the same modern techniques "a way", of doing this. And once you understand that way you'll know if the trail you are on is routed according to that "way." If you are on a long overgrown old 100+ yr old logging road there's a way that was done back then. If you're on a hunting trail there are clues to how they are "done." Knowing that many trails follow drainages or ridgelines helps. Knowing the surrounding terrain or what's trail culturally customary in an area can help too. Stop looking for blazes every time you hike and you'll be a better hiker and you'll get better at doing what I'm describing. You'll get really lost less often! AND, it's my illusion you'll wind up being a better hiker!
BuckeyeBill
06-30-2014, 14:09
Not if its plastic, it doesn't. I just checked Home Depot's web site and they offer 47 types of flagging tape and flags - all plastic and some even marketed as long-lasting and/or reusable. Lowe's offers 15 varieties - again all plastic and "long-lasting". I've used flags and flagging for 30 years professionally and have never come across paper flagging. For survey demarkation and sampling, short-lived is exactly opposite of what you want.
Do the rest of us trail users a favor by not defacing the outdoors and spring for a handheld GPS. For $119 list price, you can get one that lets you set 1000 waypoints and 50 routes. The usual disclaimers about reliance on electronics apply - but if you have limited orienteering and/or navigation skills then blazing new trails may not be the wisest activity.
Why not have the last person in line just remove the flagging ribbons. Save them for the next trip.
Hikes in Rain
06-30-2014, 15:04
Just get some flagging ribbon at Lowes or Home Depot. Very cheap and plentiful. Biodegrades fairly quickly.
Even the biodegradable tape (made with cellulose instead of plastic) can take six to 24 months to degrade. At least it's non-toxic.
Ricky&Jack
06-30-2014, 15:08
I swear, you folk are giving me some of the most simplest ideas, that I feel like a moron not having thought of before.
Use sticks to make an arrow to mark against a tree.
Beng twigs.
compass and note-pad.
place rocks at intersection.
etc.
You folk are awesome.
You need to put the trail on the map.
Take compass bearings and distances and draw the trail on the map. Learn to read the landscape and the topo lines and become a mapper.
This used to be a required skill for hikers. I'm surprised that it is even a question.
A GPS can be helpful as long as you don't rely on it entirely (because the damn gadget will break when you need it most).
The tactile paper map, pencil, and detailed measurements and notes have been, and still are, the gold standard amongst explorers and adventurers worldwide.
Ricky&Jack
06-30-2014, 15:19
Im searching "how to, topo map, compass" on youtube. Apparently theres a ton of videos. So that's how I'm going to spend my afternoon.
thanks.
bangorme
06-30-2014, 15:37
I agree with those saying that you need a compass, a topo map, and someone that knows orienteering, since it is essentially bushwacking that you you are doing. Having the compass and topo aren't enough, because unless you know how to get back in the event you get lost, they will do you no good. For example, you might say "Well, I'll just head south and to get back I'll head north. But it isn't that easy. It is very hard to walk in a straight line in the woods. So you realize that you are lost and start to head north and come to a place that can't be traversed, then what do you do? I could go on, but there are some good books on the subject, but since I don't see the one used 45 years ago, I can't recommend one.
VIDEOS?????????????????
Get the Bible:
http://www.rei.com/product/803685/be-expert-with-map-and-compass-3rd-edition
You can take the book into the woods and practice. Try that with a video.
Wayne
Ricky&Jack
06-30-2014, 15:43
Yeah, I'm the kind of guy who when he sees topo maps, I always quickly switch to Satellite or map mode because topo's intimidated me.
But that's because I was used to road maps after being a truck driver for so long.
Time to grow up and learn a new survival skill.
Ricky&Jack
06-30-2014, 15:47
hey Wayne. Thanks for that book link. I just ordered it.
bangorme
06-30-2014, 16:05
VIDEOS?????????????????
Get the Bible:
http://www.rei.com/product/803685/be-expert-with-map-and-compass-3rd-edition
You can take the book into the woods and practice. Try that with a video.
Wayne
LOL, that looks familiar.
Just wanted to add the point that one can find themselves in this situation unintentionally (which is what I think happened to the lady that disappeared up here on the AT last year). You leave the trail to go to the bathroom or camp and it's dusk. You might think you couldn't possibly get lost in this situation. But you can. I shot a deer about 20 years ago tracked it about 200 yards from a woods trail. It was dusk. By the time I got it dressed, it was almost dark. Nothing looked familiar. I stupidly headed in the direction I thought was the way out, and a half hour later I realized I was lost. I was lucky, because the woods trail ran from east to west for about 10 miles and I had taken a compass reading before I headed in. I was able to haul out my compass, head north and hit the trail. So it can happen.
chiefiepoo
06-30-2014, 16:11
Found the answer on pg 162 of the BSA handbook, sixth edition of 1960.
Since our group of 20 was divided by the faster and slower members, when we came to an intersection up front, we would mark the ground with an 'aarow' made of corn meal so that the people in back would know which way we went.
I thought that was clever... I've been thinking about this. What you do to stay found really depends if you are alone or in a group.
In a group, I think that the BEST thing is for the faster hikers to wait at both marked and unmarked trail junctions. That way you can take a head count and make sure you have everybody and move on. When you are in a group with people of various skills and abilities, everybody has to compromise for the safety and comfort of group.
I can think of many reasons why various people could miss an arrow made of corn meal, sticks, whatever. Some people stare at their feet or the feet of the person in front of them. We have a lot of ants in CA. I know people who would become fascinated with the ants carrying the corn meal and totally miss the corn meal arrow. In groups, people get talking and will totally walk past sign posts, arrows, 8 ft long cattle gates. Somebody might have a blister and be embarrassed to hold up the group and be totally focused on their pinky toe. Some people have ZERO instincts and will go in the wrong direction every time.
I have gone on an organized group overnight backpack trip that was only women and we waited at junctions or confusing places and did the head count thing. Everything went exactly as planned. Women tend to go on field trips with kids and are used to doing head counts 4 or 6 or 20 times an hour. :)
I went on an organized group 5 mile hike (with the same organization) led by a guy, and we lost our two slowest, weakest hikers for 3 hours when 12 members of the group when left and two stragglers went right. To lose somebody for 3 hours can feel like an eternity! Fortunately, we had young people who could go jogging in various directions and the lost people were found, but they did not look great.
By yourself: I don't know if anybody posted this... but it is very helpful to know how fast/slow you hike uphill or downhill or in different weather. That way you can look at a map and your watch and say, "We should be crossing this creek at about 2:45pm" And if you have not passed the creek by 3pm, you can stop and reassess.
By yourself: I don't know if anybody posted this... but it is very helpful to know how fast/slow you hike uphill or downhill or in different weather. That way you can look at a map and your watch and say, "We should be crossing this creek at about 2:45pm" And if you have not passed the creek by 3pm, you can stop and reassess.
That's a good point DLP. It's called ' dead reckoning ' when you use your know speed, known direction and the time traveled to locate where you are. Of course you need to know where you started from first.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/08/0815_050815_waterfall.html
random yes, but you might just find something new if you make your own route :-)
Ricky&Jack
06-30-2014, 16:38
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/08/0815_050815_waterfall.html
random yes, but you might just find something new if you make your own route :-)
it's good to know what google earth has not ended the opportunity of new treasures being found.
Some of us only seem awesome because we've been, and occasionally still get, awesomely lost and learn from it. :rolleyes:
peakbagger
06-30-2014, 16:58
:D I've been on trips like that! (I think I may even have been hiking on a trip led by that infamous guidebook editor.)
Some of my "imaginary friends" have similar hilarious stories. http://35peaksin30days.blogspot.com/2010/11/lone-rocky-mountains-3721-3508-feet.html Hilarious.
When I lead a bushwhack, we go at the pace of the slowest hiker. If I've a trustworthy second, one of us will be on point and the other on sweep. Otherwise, I'll typically "lead from behind" and warn hikers that if they lose sight of the hiker ahead or behind, they need to close up ranks. And I try hard to make sure that the slowest hiker gets time for adequate breaks.
His were Initials G.D. He used to occasionally leave descriptions of the more notable hikes in the first page of the register
That's a good point DLP. It's called ' dead reckoning ' when you use your know speed, known direction and the time traveled to locate where you are. Of course you need to know where you started from first.
Dead reckoning works when you have visible landmarks to aim for and to assure constant direction. The desert, for example. Or for coastal navigation from a boat. It would seem to me to be of limited value in dense woods.
Dead reckoning works when you have visible landmarks to aim for and to assure constant direction. The desert, for example. Or for coastal navigation from a boat. It would seem to me to be of limited value in dense woods.
There are several ways to use D. R. and there is an error factor but I've use it in the wood. In conjunction with a TOPO map it can be quite accurate. The ability to retrace your steps can be helped by keeping notes on time, speed and direction. But yes there is a chance of big errors. I have used it off shore and hit the coast 10 miles off course at time. :) But practice makes those errors less.
yerbyray
07-02-2014, 09:58
Dead reckoning works when you have visible landmarks to aim for and to assure constant direction. The desert, for example. Or for coastal navigation from a boat. It would seem to me to be of limited value in dense woods.
I guess Daniel Boone just got lucky a lot.
Another Kevin
07-02-2014, 13:46
I guess Daniel Boone just got lucky a lot.
No. But he didn't rely on dead reckoning. He made careful note of collecting features as he traveled. He didn't just go by compass bearing and distance, but by intimate knowledge of the lay of the land. Dead reckoning is the opposite of what he's famous for doing.
yerbyray
07-02-2014, 15:18
No. But he didn't rely on dead reckoning. He made careful note of collecting features as he traveled. He didn't just go by compass bearing and distance, but by intimate knowledge of the lay of the land. Dead reckoning is the opposite of what he's famous for doing.
I'm with you all the way about dead reckoning but dead reckoning works as well in dense woods....you just gotta decrease distance between your points and be more accurate. Instead of aiming for a boulder on a far hillside with a tall pine behind you, you might aim for a rock on a facing hill and use the limb of a tree behind as your guides.
Just Bill
07-02-2014, 15:19
Dead reckoning and a simple 2 dimensional trail map are the primary form of navigation for most hikers. As DLP mentioned, takes a while to learn your rate of travel but it's the more accurate way. The caveat being; you know where you started, and have enough "in-between" points to check your progress against.
Off trail, unless the terrain is very kind the practice is unreliable but not to be completely ignored.
I think when it comes to off trail work with no landmarks; I've found overshooting (I believe that's the official term) to be most useful. Instead of trying to hit some specific point, aim off to one side or the other and shoot for a landmark like a river, road or trail. Since you've overshot to a specific side, you know when you reach this landmark you know which way to turn. I use this technique in a canoe to find a portage. Aim left, hold your bearing, turn right when you hit shore to find the portage. With experience you can tighten it up to a few hundred feet, even on a long crossing.
In decent terrain- Lay of the land is the best. My compass rarely comes out and I rely on the topo map to determine my position.
Combining all three- DR, Overshooting, and solid map reading leaves you in good shape. Unless you are looking for buried treasure it's rare you need to hit a spot with GPS levels of accuracy.
Excellent observation, coupled with good memory (or detailed notes) complete the puzzle when tramping with no map.
If you have trouble, don't feel too bad. The ability to read a map (especially the topo portion) is a measurable type of intelligence that not all people have. You may have to work at it pretty hard. Orienteering is a skill that can be learned with effort and practice. I believe the internal compass theory has been officially dis-proven. However, Daniel Booning it, or having an innate sense of direction is less of an instinctual ability than a specific type of intelligence that some are naturally stronger at than others. It's not that you have an internal compass, but more (to paraphrase Kephart) that you have the ability to fix the landscape in your mind and understand your place in it.
That said there is a bit of an old joke in many forms; a novice gets lost, an expert is merely temporarily displaced. The expert learns not to hit a mark with bulls-eye precision, but rather to get themselves in the general area and pinpoint from there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spatial_visualization_ability
Just Bill
07-02-2014, 16:48
I'm with you all the way about dead reckoning but dead reckoning works as well in dense woods....you just gotta decrease distance between your points and be more accurate. Instead of aiming for a boulder on a far hillside with a tall pine behind you, you might aim for a rock on a facing hill and use the limb of a tree behind as your guides.
Your confusing following a bearing with Dead reckoning. Unless I'm confusing what you mean of course:o
Dead reckoning assumes you are holding your bearing- with a known line of travel you can then estimate your position based upon your rate of travel. The classic if train A leaves the station traveling 60mph at 10:00 where will it be by 11:45.
That's tricky off trail because your rate of travel gets hard to predict as you fiddle with compass, map, and fight tough sections.
As you seem to say; to improve your odds of holding your bearing you must keep your landmarks tighter and easier to recognize based upon your field of vision. The trick you explain was told to me as "Gunsighting" Pick two points minimum and keep them aligned to stay on course, rather than trying to walk to a single point. Adding an extra "rearsight" as you suggest is an excellent way to tighten up your aim.
So first one must learn to Hold your bearing. (the train track) Then when you are confident you are staying the course, you can then apply the mathematics of dead reckoning once you are on the train track for a meaningful period of time. As mentioned; the reason it seldom works is it's hard enough to predict your rate of travel on a trail, let alone off trail.
Even in the prairie land of the midwest I find it seldom works in practice. In a canoe, it works quite well.
OTH- dead reckoning is a tool that nearly every AT hiker uses, especially in combo with AWOL's book it is the most effective means of navigation by far.
rocketsocks
07-02-2014, 17:24
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp88oumRQvs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp88oumRQvs
bangorme
07-02-2014, 18:49
I guess Daniel Boone just got lucky a lot.
I can't say as ever I was lost,
but I was bewildered once for three days.
Daniel Boone
TrippLite
07-03-2014, 02:53
I wonder what giant made this inukshuk?
http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b607/Ricky_Sanftner/MushRock_zpsc53ec8b1.jpg (http://s1294.photobucket.com/user/Ricky_Sanftner/media/MushRock_zpsc53ec8b1.jpg.html)
(This is "mushroom rock" located about 35miles from my home, near Chattanooga/Signal-Mountain)
I've heard the Suwannee ... it's nice to see most of the gravetti has been removed since I last saw the MR. Did ya'll switchback at the rock or did you continue on the Cumberland Trail to Suck Creek and navigate the swinging bridge.. I'm guessing since this was a group hike , Jack was not a partaker. Just curious how well he would handle the bridge. My girl Sally, should I say Slobber Slinging Sally gave the suspension bridge zero attention. Sally is a Mastiff and not built for long hikes so she only gets to go on short hikes although she does love to hike, swim, fish and camp. If only she didn't drool so much and could cook, she would be the perfect female.. Ha
rocketsocks
07-03-2014, 03:00
I've heard the Suwannee ... it's nice to see most of the gravetti has been removed since I last saw the MR. Did ya'll switchback at the rock or did you continue on the Cumberland Trail to Suck Creek and navigate the swinging bridge.. I'm guessing since this was a group hike , Jack was not a partaker. Just curious how well he would handle the bridge. My girl Sally, should I say Slobber Slinging Sally gave the suspension bridge zero attention. Sally is a Mastiff and not built for long hikes so she only gets to go on short hikes although she does love to hike, swim, fish and camp. If only she didn't drool so much and could cook, she would be the perfect female.. HaI love to boulder, but can honestly say, I don't think I'd climb around on that one. :-?
Just Bill
07-03-2014, 10:28
I can't say as ever I was lost,
but I was bewildered once for three days.
Daniel Boone
Woodcraft may be defined as the art of finding one's way in the wilderness and getting along well by utilizing nature's storehouse. When we say that Daniel Boone, for example, was a master woodsman, we mean that he could confidently enter an unmapped wilderness, with no outfit but what was carried by his horse, his canoe, or his own back...
Horace Kephart
Not to start a quote-off. Your quote recalled a quote I enjoy on the topic.
Just Bill made an important point about pace count and how difficult it is to measure how far you've traveled. I still use the old school method learned from my Dad. One knot in my line for every 100 paces. The issue becomes the pace when doing a lot of ups and downs. The arounds I can usually factor in. If I come within 50 meters each click I feel my count is right on.
Ricky&Jack
07-03-2014, 11:00
I still use the old school method learned from my Dad. One knot in my line for every 100 paces.
what do you mean "knot in your line" every 100 paces?
or does that refer to mountain climbing? (Im confused about using a rope and hiking in the woods)
Unless I mis-read that.
Hiking Rick, I'm not a climber. I use Parachute cord. I believe Dad picked up this method in WW2 Ranger training with Brit instructors. Another other point when in a team is to learn who comes the closest to matching the distance between known position and the feature the compass is pointed at.
The Hitchhiker Guide to The Galaxy was sub-titled: "DON'T PANIC". Good advice if we get off trail and/or meant to.
Come to think on it, pretty good advice in general where ever and when ever.
bangorme
07-03-2014, 11:48
The Hitchhiker Guide to The Galaxy was sub-titled: "DON'T PANIC". Good advice if we get off trail and/or meant to.
Come to think on it, pretty good advice in general where ever and when ever.
Don't get hurt, because I think it takes that to die from getting lost on the AT. Panic is a big part of getting hurt. Lots of stories about people doing goofy things when they get lost and panic (such as running and bouncing off trees). If a person realized they were lost, set up camp, blew their whistle three times every 10 minutes, and just sat there, no one would die.
Hmm, no offense meant, but the advice about blowing a whistle (and it is not original to this discussion) ... I put absolutely no stock in that.
Just Bill
07-03-2014, 11:59
The Hitchhiker Guide to The Galaxy was sub-titled: "DON'T PANIC". Good advice if we get off trail and/or meant to.
Come to think on it, pretty good advice in general where ever and when ever.
LOL, the quotes keep coming- solid advice whither it's 1900 or far off in the galaxy-
I have heard old woodsmen say that there is no use in offering advice to novices about what they should do if they get lost, because a lost man is an insane man, anyway, and will remember nothing that has been told him.
Horace Kephart
Ricky (I refuse to talk to Jack about orienteering:))
You've got a bit too much "trail of bread crumbs (cornmeal)" on the brain- before the days of pen, paper and cell phones- people kept record of things manually. Some old tricks are worth knowing and won't hurt your cornbread supply overmuch.
Although if you are in the whites during a whiteout- tying a line to the top of a rock cairn as you wander into the fog to find the next one is an accepted and quite practical practice.
All he's talking about is a way to keep track of your pace count. When you plan to walk 500 paces at a bearing of 225, well it gets a bit tricky to count to 500 and watch the compass, watch the landmarks, watch your footing, and watch all the other things you should be watching. Even trickier if you are walking a heading for 5 miles and would like to know how far you've walked without counting to 8800 or so.
So you count 25, 50 or 100 paces at a crack, and make a note of it. Now you could make tick marks on your map, or you can use a piece of twine as described to "note" each full count- also a good reminder to stop and check your bearing. If you're feeling zen about it, you can use a string of beads too.
one more favorite-
Duncan: "There is a war on. How is it you are heading west?"
Hawkeye "Well, we kinda face to the north and real sudden-like turn left"
James Fennimore Cooper, "Last of the Mohicans"
Just Bill
07-03-2014, 12:02
S.T.O.P. Sit -Think - Observe - Plan.
Many, many folks would avoid lots of trouble simply by sitting down and not standing back up until they have a plan.
If people remember one thing, this is the best- even if your plan is to blow a whistle- it's better than the alternative.
Berserker
07-03-2014, 12:18
Map and GPS...and make sure to understand how to actually use the map. Someone mentioned the 7.5 USGS quadrangles, and those are good maps if there's not a map produced of the area you will be in. If exploring new stuff that may involve bushwhacking I'd recommend waiting until winter when all the undergrowth is down and the leaves are off the trees...that's when I'd want to do it anyway.
Another Kevin
07-03-2014, 13:00
Map and GPS...and make sure to understand how to actually use the map. Someone mentioned the 7.5 USGS quadrangles, and those are good maps if there's not a map produced of the area you will be in. If exploring new stuff that may involve bushwhacking I'd recommend waiting until winter when all the undergrowth is down and the leaves are off the trees...that's when I'd want to do it anyway.
Yeah. What would be the best time here is after the mud is frozen over but before you need snowshoes - but that's hunting season. Of course, that's not too much of an obstacle, since generally I'm going farther than anyone sane wants to drag a deer. Having the leaves off the trees is less of an issue for me here, because a lot of my hikes take me through spruce-and-balsam forest, which has no visibility at any time of year. It is nice, though, to do it on snowshoes and have all the viburnum and blackberry buried rather than grabbing at your ankles.
I'm actually planning a longish whack in a couple of weeks, but I've got a recent trip report that says the nettles aren't too bad this year (although the deerflies are horrible!) and the woods are passable. I'm hoping the guy is right. The last time I tried a bushwhack in July, I was a day late getting back for no better reason than a run of pesky bad luck with routefinding (got forced off a ridge by spruce thickets, and then it was a long slog of navigating a maze of ledges.
I do much better with collecting features than I do with pace counting. Sure, I know how - I typically use tick marks in my notebook when I'm doing it - but I'm a lot more confident taking a compass course to a stream, ridge, fence, property line (most backcountry property lines in this part of the world have at least axe blazes on witness trees) or similar feature. The trick is to keep dead reckoning short and choose a route that self-corrects. Also, with an altimeter, I have a great cross-check. "On the ridge line at 3400 feet" actually makes a pretty good attack point. You can see which way the ground falls off, and you can read your altimeter to know whether you're above or below.. If I can use a spur or reentrant as a handrail and a contour line as a catching feature (or the other way around), I'm all set.
In the Eastern woods, the most useless skill in the world is sight resection. That's another one where I know how, and I teach it because it's in the syllabus for a reason, but here in the East you never get the chance to put it into practice. Anywhere that you have sight lines to make it useful, you already know where you are.
There are also a bazillion trails already marked on topo maps. :) Walking on a trail and matching what you are seeing (meadows, creeks, ponds, hills, peaks, etc) or experiencing (walking uphill, walking downhill, walking on a ridge, etc) to the topo is probably the best way to get familiar with reading one. You can read books or look online.... but walking and checking your map every X number of minutes is the best way. Ricky, you are way ahead of the game if you can read a street map from truck driving. A lot of people.... "Ummm... you are kind of holding the map upside down... we need to turn it..." :)
It is fun to also find a secret swimming hole or mushroom rock by somebody's vague directions of "Follow the creek bed for a quarter mile, then go up over the ridge to the south, etc, etc.
But realistically, I won't live long enough to walk all of the marked trails just in California. :) Although, admittedly, some of them are not worth walking.
Another Kevin
07-03-2014, 13:34
LOL, the quotes keep coming(...)
one more favorite-
Duncan: "There is a war on. How is it you are heading west?"
Hawkeye "Well, we kinda face to the north and real sudden-like turn left"
James Fennimore Cooper, "Last of the Mohicans"
While we're on the subject of Cooper, there's this one from The Pioneers. (Illustrations are my own.)
“There’s a place in them hills that I used to climb to, when I wanted to see the carryings on of the world, that would well pay any man for a barked shin or a torn moccasin. You know the Catskills, lad, for you must have seen them on your left, as you followed the river up from New York, looking as blue as a piece of clear sky, and holding up the clouds on their tops, as the smoke curls over the head of an Indian chief at the council fire.
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3770/10031459724_d260077bc6_z.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ke9tv/10031459724/)
Well, there’s the High-peak and Round-top, which lay back,like a father and mother among their children, seeing they are high above all the other hills.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7406/10031428824_c62435e709_z.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ke9tv/10031428824/)
But the place I mean is next to the river, where one of the ridges juts out a little from the rest, and where the rocks fall for the best part of a thousand feet, so much up and down, that a man standing on their edges is fool enough to think he can jump from top to bottom.”
https://farm7.staticflickr.com/6210/6076963377_350c189e42_z.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ke9tv/6076963377/)
"What see you when you get there?” asked Edwards.
“Creation!” said Natty, dropping the end of his rod into the water, and sweeping one hand around him in a circle -- “all Creation, lad...”
The places that Natty Bumppo described are still there, exactly as he laid them out. The [Kaaterskill] High Peak and the Round Top are still a bushwhack, likely to result in torn gear or a barked shin. And from the high ledges you still imagine that all of Creation is laid out before you.
And another quote for the above, this time from John Burroughs, The Heart of the Southern Catskills:
All was mountain and forest on every hand. Civilization seemed to have done little more than to have scratched this rough, shaggy surface of the earth here and there. In any such view, the wild, the aboriginal, the geographical greatly predominate. The works of man dwindle, and the original features of the huge globe come out. Every single object or point is dwarfed; the valley of the Hudson is only a wrinkle in the earth's surface. You discover with a feeling of surprise that the great thing is the earth itself, which stretches away on every hand so far beyond your ken.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7452/9764660284_7b65fd7ec7_z.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ke9tv/9764660284/)
Just Bill
07-03-2014, 14:56
:clap:clap:clap:clap:jump
Well done! A fictional fella he may be, but inspired by very real places and feelings as you say. A fine piece of country you dwell in my friend.
Ah's me... that quote put to photos would make a fine addition to the wall much more inspirational than the silly posters that hang here at work- although if this was there I'd be motivated to walk out the door.
Hard to pick a favorite, but this one (for me) captures the essence of the feelin and sentiment expressed that cause a sartain fondness in the breast fer those treasured tales-
It is not easy to dwell always in the presence of God and not feel the power of His goodness. I have attended church-sarvice in the garrisons, and tried hard, as becomes a true soldier, to join in the prayers; for, though no enlisted sarvant of the king, I fight his battles and sarve his cause, and so I have endeavored to worship garrison-fashion, but never could raise within me the solemn feelings and true affection that I feel when alone with God in the forest. There I seem to stand face to face with my Master; all around me is fresh and beautiful, as it came from His hand; and there is no nicety or doctrine to chill the feelings. No no; the woods are the true temple after all, for there the thoughts are free to mount higher even than the clouds.
James Fenimore Cooper- Pathfinder; or the inland sea.
Kevin-one more on a topic we were discussing not long ago...the last words of our friend Natty Bumppo
You believe in the blessed prairies, and I have faith in the sayings of my fathers. If both are true, our parting will be final; but if it should prove, that the same meaning is hid under different words, we shall yet stand together, Pawnee, before the face of your Wahcondah, who will then be no other than my God. There is much to be said in favour of both religions, for each seems suited to its own people, and no doubt it was so intended.
James Fenimore Cooper- The Prairie
What a fine country we live in... Happy 4th!
Another Kevin
07-03-2014, 15:55
I'll try now to return you to the discussion of bushwhack technique, and apologize for the digression into why we bushwhack. :o
DLP mentioned that there are a lot of trails shown on the topo maps. That's right, of course. In fact, sometimes one source of interesting ideas is to find a road or trail that's on an older topo but not on the current edition. Several sites online let you browse obsolete ones as well as the current editions -many of which are themselves half a century out of date!
To give an idea of the sort of things you might find when tracing an old road, I once stumbled upon a ghost town once (that I didn't know was there in advance). The road was grown to trees and indistinct in places, but still mostly hikable. In the village, it was broad and clear.
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8395/8690778427_5b7073bbe8_z.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ke9tv/8690778427/)
And I still don't know anything about the village or those who lived there - not even its name. What's left of it is stone: foundations, chimneys, hearths, walls and wells. But it had a small cluster of houses and barns (one large foundation may have been a meetinghouse), a smithy or foundry of some sort (the sand floor showing that someone worked with hot metal there), a grist mill, and the vats of a tannery. It does not appear on an 1892 road map of the area. From the fact that the tanning vats were lined with Portland cement rather than just being tarred, I'd guess that they were built, at the earliest, in the mid-1820's.
One of these days, I'll probably try to get into the county's archives, examine tax rolls from the mid-19th century and try to glean some names from them - at least finding out who the landlord was. Without knowing even the name of the village, it's really hard to track any information. But I'm curious.
bangorme
07-03-2014, 16:23
That's actually a fine trial for a topo map. Most of the ones I've seen are barely visible and are old logging roads that have trees growing up through the middle of them.
There are a few of these ghost towns on the AT. One in VT near Little Rock Pond. Yellow Springs in PA. Another just south of Buena Vista VA. Probably a few more...
For that matter, when you climb the Bigelows and look down at Flagstaff Lake... several towns submerged under that lake.
Hike anywhere in New England and you're likely to see stone walls deep in the woods.
rocketsocks
07-03-2014, 17:53
How do YOU explore new, unmarked trails safely?
Much of my exploration of new trails always seemed to start with a first stop "The Library" A large part of my hiking was a means to an end. Rarely did I hike for hikin, but rather I hiked to get somewhere, and that was a mine, quarry, road cut, mill, lost towns, caves, shafts and the like. As a long time mineral collector most always my explorations started in the library's checking old books, old maps, micro fiche, news paper articles, and one of my favorite distraction was always "Harpers Weekly" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harper's_Weekly) as I never knew where I might end up going. It wasn't till computers came out that it has made this task so much easier. If I wanted to know about an area it meant driving there and the first stop was the library to seek out the oldest librarian I could find, preferable someone who has lived there a long long time. Often though and prior to arriving, it was not unusual to write a letter, or calling ahead of time requesting information on a certain area or topic, most of these times these queries were met with not only gratuity, but a date to meet, and involved me buying some coffee and or lunch. A wealth of information can be found out just by asking the right person the right questions. Second stop, the County Court House, to check on tax records, deeds, and sometimes to sus out geologic open file reports. Third stop Cemeteries, and by now I'm hungry again and a local diner sitting at the counter usually at the end with the old times ain't a bad place to be either. ;) But like all new trails unexplored, common sense goes a long way to keeping you safe, and un-shot. Get permission to enter, watch out for things that will stick ya, sting ya, or eat ya...outside of that, just have fun and go explore. :)
TrippLite
07-03-2014, 18:46
Ah's me... that quote put to photos would make a fine addition to the wall much more inspirational than the silly posters that hang here at work- although if this was there I'd be motivated to walk out the door.
Thats too funny...
Interesting thread indeed with all the sound advice, great quotes and pictures.
Ricky I've attached a link with a slide show presentation that should help give you a better understanding of land navigation using a compass, pacing, etc.... Are there any survivalist schools nearby that you can attend that teaches land navigation. If not, seek out friends that may have served in the military and attended either PLDC (Primary Leadership Development Course), BNOC ( Basic Non-commissioned Officer Course ) or WLC ( War Leadership Course ) these individuals would have taken a land navigation and map reading course and should be able to pass on their knowledge.
http://www.slideshare.net/kevinestela/land-navigation-with-map-and-compass-2417124
rocketsocks
07-03-2014, 22:11
Thats too funny...
Interesting thread indeed with all the sound advice, great quotes and pictures.
Ricky I've attached a link with a slide show presentation that should help give you a better understanding of land navigation using a compass, pacing, etc.... Are there any survivalist schools nearby that you can attend that teaches land navigation. If not, seek out friends that may have served in the military and attended either PLDC (Primary Leadership Development Course), BNOC ( Basic Non-commissioned Officer Course ) or WLC ( War Leadership Course ) these individuals would have taken a land navigation and map reading course and should be able to pass on their knowledge.
http://www.slideshare.net/kevinestela/land-navigation-with-map-and-compass-2417124
TrippLite, that is the most concise snap shots of navigation I've seen in one spot with out having to wade though the rest of the chapters that make up FM 21-26 (https://archive.org/details/FM21-26_201211) book on navigation. thanks for postin, good stuffs.
Sgt. Rocks H.Q. also breaks it down nicely I think.
http://hikinghq.net/compass/compass_nav.html
what do you mean "knot in your line" every 100 paces?
or does that refer to mountain climbing? (Im confused about using a rope and hiking in the woods)
Unless I mis-read that.
You get out your all purpose parachute cord. Tie a knot in it every 100 paces.
Clear?
Wayne
Sent from somewhere around here.
TrippLite
07-04-2014, 01:25
TrippLite, that is the most concise snap shots of navigation I've seen in one spot with out having to wade though the rest of the chapters that make up FM 21-26 (https://archive.org/details/FM21-26_201211) book on navigation. thanks for postin, good stuffs.
Sgt. Rocks H.Q. also breaks it down nicely I think.
http://hikinghq.net/compass/compass_nav.html
Rocketsocks, Try FM 3-25.26 (http://www.uvm.edu/~goldbar/FM3_25.26.pdf) as it has replaced FM 21-26... you should be able to find a better link to suit your needs, I just clicked on and copied the first url when I typed it in my search..
rocketsocks
07-04-2014, 01:41
Rocketsocks, Try FM 3-25.26 (http://www.uvm.edu/~goldbar/FM3_25.26.pdf) as it has replaced FM 21-26... you should be able to find a better link to suit your needs, I just clicked on and copied the first url when I typed it in my search..
oh, very good, thanks...yeah that looks great!
Odd Man Out
07-04-2014, 08:04
There are also a bazillion trails already marked on topo maps. :) Walking on a trail and matching what you are seeing (meadows, creeks, ponds, hills, peaks, etc) or experiencing (walking uphill, walking downhill, walking on a ridge, etc) to the topo is probably the best way to get familiar with reading one. You can read books or look online.... but walking and checking your map every X number of minutes is the best way. Ricky, you are way ahead of the game if you can read a street map from truck driving. A lot of people.... "Ummm... you are kind of holding the map upside down... we need to turn it..." :)
It is fun to also find a secret swimming hole or mushroom rock by somebody's vague directions of "Follow the creek bed for a quarter mile, then go up over the ridge to the south, etc, etc.
But realistically, I won't live long enough to walk all of the marked trails just in California. :) Although, admittedly, some of them are not worth walking.
What I like to do is to take some one's vague directions and then use a topographic map to retrace their hike. Good map reading practice for times you can't get out. I especially like to do this from reports of treks in very remote places where little information is available. If they post pics I confirm I have the destination right by reproducing the image with Google earth.
Snowleopard
07-04-2014, 11:53
Horace Kephart's book, "Camping and Woodcraft" (1916) has some good chapters on not getting lost. It's available online if you look, or http://www.amazon.com/Camping-Woodcraft-Handbook-Travelers-Wilderness/dp/0870495569/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1404488058&sr=8-3&keywords=horace+kephart
My advice is to get a GPS and learn to use it to backtrack your trail. THIS IS YOUR BACKUP for when you do get lost, so be SURE you can backtrack with it. Bring a map and compass with you and start learning how to use it. This is another backup that can be helpful for when you get lost.
Now, go into your local woods and get familiar with them. Pay attention to what you're seeing. Get to know your favorite trees, sitting spots, rocks, etc. Memorize them. Wander around and try to make your way back by a direct route. Try to figure out how to get to local landmarks. Go part way towards the landmark but turn around before you think you're lost. Start keeping track of compass headings and trail junctions. Keep turning around to look at how it looks going in the other direction. Pay attention at all times; get to really know the place and everything in it. When you get lost, sit down and see if you can figure out where you need to go with map and compass. If that doesn't work, follow your GPS backtrack home, but don't do that too quickly.
The way I did this when I was 5 or 6 years old: I'd go into the woods as far as I could until I got scared and then run home. Gradually, as the nearer parts of the wood began to feel like home, I'd go further before I got scared and had to run home. I don't get scared nearly as often now :)
One thing I always do is when turning off of an intersection, I then turn and look back at it to burn a mental picture into my mind, and what the area looks like should I return that way. I used this technique to find my way back to my car when I, and every other person in town, had the urge to go to Costco at 4pm yesterday. :D
Shutterbug
07-04-2014, 12:18
I learned some important lessons in USAF pilot training. On one of my first training flights, we flew to a training area. After 45 minutes of putting the T37 through various maneuvers, the instructor said, "Ok, take us back to the base." I realized that I didn't have any idea where the base was. The instructor helped me to figure it out, buthe said, "Always keep the way home in your mind." The lessons I learned have served me well when hiking. 1)Pay attention to landmarks. 2)Stay oriented -- know which direction is north at all times. 3)Pay attention to time, speed and direction.
Using those lessons, I rarely have to rely on the other skills I learned in the military. A few year ago I rushed the season on Mt. Rainier. I was several miles from my truck when a storm dropped enough snow in a short time to hide the trail and all land marks. I was left to dead reckoning to find my way back to my truck. If I had relied on marks on the trail, I would have been in serious trouble.
Another Kevin
07-04-2014, 13:19
My advice is to get a GPS and learn to use it to backtrack your trail. THIS IS YOUR BACKUP for when you do get lost, so be SURE you can backtrack with it. Bring a map and compass with you and start learning how to use it. This is another backup that can be helpful for when you get lost.
Yes. But assume that when you really need a GPS, you will either have just dropped and broken it, or the batteries will have run out.
When I hit a collecting feature, I really like to make a hack mark on a paper map along with the time of arrival. That way, when things get stressful and I don't know exactly where I am, I at least know where I was. I also occasionally like to practice using a rough escape route like, "going down into the bowl to the north leads to a river. There's a bridge about three miles downstream."
What I like to do is to take some one's vague directions and then use a topographic map to retrace their hike. Good map reading practice for times you can't get out. I especially like to do this from reports of treks in very remote places where little information is available. If they post pics I confirm I have the destination right by reproducing the image with Google earth.
Yeah. Being who I am, I tend to research the heck out of planned bushwhacks. I'm typically looking for what anyone has to say on summitpost.org, catskillmountaineer.net, vftt.org, adkhighpeaks.com, adkforum.com, and a half-dozen blogs by local hikers. Having these, and satellite photos (including IR ones that discriminate types of land cover) available is a great thing about living in the 21st Century.
My biggest annoyances on bushwhacks come when I know exactly where I am, but not how to get anywhere else. A couple of years ago, I was a day late on one trip with my daughter because of getting stuck in a maze of ledges and brush. We needed to keep backtracking to find a hikable path. We wound up camping on a ledge just wider than my tent, because it was the biggest flat spot I'd seen in about 45 minutes and we'd run out of daylight. Ironically, the next morning we walked out of the brush and rockfall in a hundred yards or so, was able to angle back up on the ridge I was trying to follow, and made the remaining mile to the trail in about half an hour. We might have continued, but for that particular trip we had Had Enough, so we went back to the car and had second breakfast at a café in the nearest town. A couple of months later I did the rest of the planned route with a colleague from work.
Snowleopard
07-04-2014, 14:07
Yes. But assume that when you really need a GPS, you will either have just dropped and broken it, or the batteries will have run out.
...
You're right.
I wasn't clear enough. I was trying to describe training in your local woods that are safe. I think you should get very familiar with remembering local features (trees, rocks, the appearance of things) in a pretty safe setting. I.e., learn to see and remember the features in your environment and learn how to navigate by those. The GPS is to get you home in time for dinner, not to save you.
In a real hike in unfamiliar territory, I'd do pretty much the same as Another Kevin and others. Study your map, plan escape routes, etc. If bad weather was possible in tough terrain, I'd pretty much memorize the map and escape routes. A GPS can be useful, but don't rely on it. Even a map is not always reliable in severe weather (strong winds, rain, it blows away).
In a forest I'm pretty good in finding my way and traveling efficiently. I an unfamiliar environment, I can't rely on intuition but become dependent on map and compass. In the Arizona desert, I'd keep finding myself in cul de sacs of cactus and have to backtrack; I'd really have to do a bunch of hiking till I learned the different features and started to recognize them.
rocketsocks
07-04-2014, 14:12
I used this technique to find my way back to my car when I, and every other person in town, had the urge to go to Costco at 4pm yesterday. :D
Well being your post here wasn't a "Send out the Mounties" request, it all worked out. I need a new Antennae Fob (so to speak) like a small American flag I use to have, it helps me find my car sometimes, and at great distance. The last flag I had was so beat up from whipping back and forth, it looked like it was from the civil war, and had to be retired to our local scout troop for ceremonial burning.
When I started this madness I was fortunate to have a friend who was a nabob in a power squadron (think open boats from Fla to the Caribbean Islands and among the Florida Keys). That ocean looks awfully big from the helm of a boat with twin out drives and no land in sight! His knowledge, skill and confidence were very impressive. And some of it was directly applicable to laying out trail and knowing where things were on a map. From that I learned that Topos are generally out of date and you can navigate from feature to feature but (ain't there always a "but") you need to be able to ID the feature.
Why am I blovicating this much? Because the AT is rightly called a long green tunnel. I found it tough to ID features on a map when all I could see were trees. At least the Topos give you contour lines and from that I could kinda-sorta find my location. I was told carrying Topos on the AT was only extra weight. They were right. I get more help from guide books.
bangorme
07-04-2014, 16:05
[QUOTE=ChuckT;1891448\ I was told carrying Topos on the AT was only extra weight. They were right. I get more help from guide books.[/QUOTE]
Which is right. This thread has very little to do with the AT really, and the OP was discussing leaving a marked trail and exploring unmarked trails. Still, it is possible to get lost... even on the AT, so some of the posts are relevant. BTW, I don't carry topos on the AT.
To go on. When i hiked in California i could get sight lines, Oregon less so (trees again), Canadian Rockies - great sight lines.
In tge last 2 years and coming back to this I've been trying GPSes. Found they are very good at tracing where I've been but they eat batteries. Still looking for a pocket book sized tablet with a GOS chip that can store Google Earth photos and overlay existing trails, allow me to plot out where I want to go and trace my actual route with the GPS chip.
I think I'm asking for the moon!
Still looking for a pocket book sized tablet with a GOS chip that can store Google Earth photos and overlay existing trails, allow me to plot out where I want to go and trace my actual route with the GPS chip.
I think I'm asking for the moon!
I don't think your asking for the moon. It may very well be that you could do that now with something like an unlocked nexus 5 phone running a version of ubuntu linux. Although I think the issue with the short battery life would still be an issue. New GPS chips are coming all the time with lower power requirements. It's just a matter of time.
kayak karl
07-06-2014, 10:24
learn to use a compass and topo. i learned at ten and still have maps from father/son hikes. many times on the trail i have been handed a map and asked "where am I ?" many times it is not even the right map. maps are extra weight if you can't read it :)