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Lone Wolf
01-14-2003, 15:37
This hostel is owned and operated by Mt. Rogers Outfitters. Located directly across the street from the outfitter it has 5 private rooms, 2 with double bunks and the others with 2 single bunks. Each room has heaters, fans, sleeping pads, shelving and towels for the shower. There's an inside sitting area with a microwave and books and mags. Outside is a covered deck/patio with a gas grill, coolers, picnic table and chairs. Also a deep sink for washing stuff. Last year it was $10.00 per room. I don't know this years prices.
They also provide shuttles and safe parking. They are very hiker friendly. Phone# 276-475-5416 for more info and prices.

Jumpstart
01-14-2003, 17:37
We didn't stay here (partaking instead of the Lazy Fox Inn incredible, famous breakfast) but everyone we were hiking with did, and we hung out here quite a bit while we were in town. Dave and the outfitter crew are incredible, really genuine nice folks, very accomodating, and a good alternative to the "place"...

Lone Wolf
01-14-2003, 17:44
I was gonna mention the Lazy Fox in another thread. Probably the BEST breakfast on the AT.

The Weasel
01-29-2003, 14:50
Hey boy! Don't you go and insult Miss Janet with any of your Yankee "prob'ly" stuff. That is THE best breakfast, not just on the trail, but in all Christendom and beyond!

I love you Miss Janet! Will you marry me, or at least cook for me, forever?

The Weasel

Jumpstart
01-30-2003, 16:57
I'm sorry but I had breakfast everywhere, and NOTHING, NOTHING compared to the Lazy Fox Inn. We were their only two guests for breakfast, and Jenny put out more food than you could want in a lifetime. Cheese grits, seven kinds of fruit, fruit salad, waffles, french toast, regular toast (5 kinds of jelly & jam) bacon, scrambled eggs with and without cheese, homefries, biscuits and gravy, sausage links, 6 or seven dry cereals and a couple kinds of oatmeal to choose from, sticky buns, milk, chocolate milk, cranberry juice, ornage juice, grapefruit juice...you name it, and she stayed in the kitchen to make us anything we asked for on top of all that! I wish I had taken a photo of that breakfast spread...what amazing hospitality and an incredible bargain for $50 bucks. If we even come back to Damascus, we will be regular customers of theirs.

Lone Wolf
02-03-2003, 19:14
Well Weasel it's obvious you haven't been on the trail too long or eaten many breakfasts along the way. What is Christendom?

Jack Tarlin
03-24-2003, 17:59
Not a place you'd be particularly comfortable, I'm afraid.

GRATEFULGG
04-24-2003, 23:01
HOWDY,IM OPENING A NEW HOSTEL ON MAY 1 NEAR FRONT ROYAL VA.LOCATED .2 BEFORE EXITING SHENANDOAH NATIONAL PARK(GOING NORTH)FOLLOW COMPTON GAP TRAIL(SIGN SAYS STATE ROUTE 610 .5). I HAVE 12 BUNKS AND A LIVING ROOM AND AN OUTSIDE DECK BUT BUT VERY LITTLE IN KITCKEN FACILITIES.PLEASE HELP ME GET THE WORD OUT TO THIS YEARS HIKERS AS I DIDNT GET IN THE COMPANION GUIDE,IM MIKE EVANS(THE GRATEFUL GREENPEACE GUY A.T.95,PCT98)540-631-0777,304 CHESTER GAP ROAD CHESTER GAP VA.22623,THANKS $13.00 WITH SHOWER ,LAUNDRY AND FREE RIDE TO FRONT ROYAL.

neo
08-22-2004, 07:26
i stayed here and they did a shuttle for me on a section hike in dec 2001
great service,a very good up to date outfitter shop:banana

Spiritual Pillgrim
07-02-2006, 12:44
Not a place you'd be particularly comfortable, I'm afraid.

Been there a few times. Yes, the hostel may be spartan, but it met my needs: a shower and a bunk. Had a BBQ grill for warmer weather cooking and space heaters in cooler temps. Plus, Jeff and Dave (at MRO) are some of the finest folks on the trail. Used them for shuttle service too. Plus, you might even get to meet some characters, like Lone Wolf, at the store. No offense, LW, aren't we all characters?

High Life
10-15-2007, 13:43
I've been having a wonderful time in Damascus . the people here have been great to me ,However when I stayed at Dave's Place some strange things began to happen. It turns out that one of the shuttle driver wally is not fond of jewish people and made this perfectly clear to me in a conversation. he will mess with you if you stay at dave's place and you are jewish . I am pleading for your support in this matter by asking you to boycott the store and hostel until he is terminated from his employment at M.R.O
sincerely High Life W.va -> ME. W.VA -> GA 07 :welcome

The Old Fhart
10-15-2007, 13:59
High Life-"the people here have been great to me ,However when I stayed at Dave's Place some strange things began to happen..................."I summited with with Dave on Katahdin in 1990 and have stayed at Dave's Place during Trail Days for years and I have never heard any crap like that from anyone there-period. You couldn't ask for nicer people.

If you have any real or perceived problems with MRO, take it up with them directly rather than trying to start your own little hate campaign on WhiteBlaze. Maybe you should change your name from High Life to .....:-?

Lone Wolf
10-15-2007, 14:32
I summited with with Dave on Katahdin in 1990 and have stayed at Dave's Place during Trail Days for years and I have never heard any crap like that from anyone there-period. You couldn't ask for nicer people.

If you have any real or perceived problems with MRO, take it up with them directly rather than trying to start your own little hate campaign on WhiteBlaze. Maybe you should change your name from High Life to .....:-?

i've been hanging out with high life all week. he's a stand up kid. his problem isn't with dave or jeff. it's with wally. he's been ****ing with hikers all season. this isn;t the first incident

Local
10-15-2007, 14:37
I'm putting my response to the thread below (from Hiker Towns and Hostels) on this general forum, because I think the matter is not just restricted to hostels.

First, Old Phart, I agree that Dave's Place has a history of hospitality. That is not being disputed. Your suggestion that this issue be taken up with the employer, Mount Rogers Outfitters, of the person in question was attempted.

High Life's contention that the person in question, known locally as "wally," made an anti-Semitic remark to him was overheard by one other hiker. I believe that people should have a chance to explain themselves, so I spoke with Wally. He was extremely hostile and did not confirm or deny his anti-Semitic remark. I spoke with Tom at Mount Rogers Outfitters and asked if he would discuss this with the persons in questions, and his comment he didn't want to discuss this because "I've made up my mind." I asked him if it bothered him that he possibly had working for him an anti-Semitic person who harassed Jewish hikers, and he said "You don't know that." Well, I don't, but it seemed logical to discuss these matters. Tom then said that "If you spread this around I'll come after you."

This is disappointing, to say the least. Damascus prides itself on its hospitality to hikers. Many of us invite them into our homes, drive them to places where they can resupply, drink beer with them, help them find work for a few days, and generally like and support the many interesting hikers who visit us. It is disappointing that this one person, who I'm told has a history of harassing hikers, should represent us in this negative way. It is disappointing that the employer of this person refuses to discusses the matter, and places the blame on the hiker. And now probably places the blame on me because I would like to discuss this matter.

I personally have a problem with racists and bigots, and don't mind confrontng them. There are perhaps those on this forum who don't think an anti-Jewish attitude is important, but I live here, both daughters live here, and my grand-children live here. We are all Jewish.

So this is probably just a note to Jewish hikers: watch out for this guy Wally at Dave's Place. If there is a problem when you get to Damascus, contact me. I'm easy to find.







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http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif Racist at M.R.O aka Dave's Place
I've been having a wonderful time in Damascus . the people here have been great to me ,However when I stayed at Dave's Place some strange things began to happen. It turns out that one of the shuttle driver wally is not fond of jewish people and made this perfectly clear to me in a conversation. he will mess with you if you stay at dave's place and you are jewish . I am pleading for your support in this matter by asking you to boycott the store and hostel until he is terminated from his employment at M.R.O
sincerely High Life W.va -> ME. W.VA -> GA 07 :welcome
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Quote:
High Life-"the people here have been great to me ,However when I stayed at Dave's Place some strange things began to happen..................."
I summited with with Dave on Katahdin in 1990 and have stayed at Dave's Place during Trail Days for years and I have never heard any crap like that from anyone there-period. You couldn't ask for nicer people.

If you have any real or perceived problems with MRO, take it up with them directly rather than trying to start your own little hate campaign on WhiteBlaze. Maybe you should change your name from High Life to .....:-?

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Appalachian Tater
10-15-2007, 14:43
I've been having a wonderful time in Damascus . the people here have been great to me ,However when I stayed at Dave's Place some strange things began to happen. It turns out that one of the shuttle driver wally is not fond of jewish people and made this perfectly clear to me in a conversation. he will mess with you if you stay at dave's place and you are jewish . I am pleading for your support in this matter by asking you to boycott the store and hostel until he is terminated from his employment at M.R.O
sincerely High Life W.va -> ME. W.VA -> GA 07 :welcome

People who have a problem with, say, Jewish people are likely to have a problem with other types of people who are different from themselves, like black people, yankees, gay people, people from other countries, women.

The Old Fhart
10-15-2007, 14:43
Lone Wolf-"i've been hanging out with high life all week. he's a stand up kid."If High Life is a stand up kid then he should realize this is not the place or the way to resolve what may be a personal or personnel issue. What he is doing here is as bad or worse than what he is complaining about. This should be handled off line.

Lone Wolf
10-15-2007, 14:45
If High Life is a stand up kid then he should realize this is not the place or the way to resolve what may be a personal or personnel issue. What he is doing here is as bad or worse than what he is complaining about. This should be handled off line.

i disagree.

warren doyle
10-15-2007, 14:47
You gotta be kidding me!

dixicritter
10-15-2007, 15:10
I merged the thread from the general forum into this thread. The duplication really isn't necessary in this instance. Carry on.

Local
10-15-2007, 16:02
I merged the thread from the general forum into this thread. The duplication really isn't necessary in this instance. Carry on.

Apologies, dixiecritter. Thanks for making this change.

Local
10-15-2007, 16:05
If High Life is a stand up kid then he should realize this is not the place or the way to resolve what may be a personal or personnel issue. What he is doing here is as bad or worse than what he is complaining about. This should be handled off line.

Old Fhart, please see my comments above. You are correct in saying this should have been handled offline, and a strong attempt was made to do so. I spoke to all the parties involved, and got nowhere with two of them. This was after High Life had posted his complaint, and I thought there might be a way to settle this issue by getting those involved to talk to each other. I was wrong.

Jack Tarlin
10-15-2007, 16:10
Wow. This sure comes as a surprise. Mt. Rogers Outfitters has an incredibly good reputation on the Trail and I have NEVER had a complaint about anyone in their employ, nor have I have heard about anyone who did.

My suggestion:

High Life, instead of merely airing your concern on an Internet Forum, I suggest you write a detailed leter to Jeff Patrick at the Outfitters. Provide a detailed description of the events you describe, and tell him what you think.

Jef is a very good and a very reasonable man (as is Tom, his store manager) and I'm sure you'll hear back from him; feel free to share with us what you discover.

But to baldly suggest that this business be shunned or boycotted is way out of line. These people have been in the business of helping countless hikers for more years than I can remember and while I am in no way, shape, or form minimizing your complaint or your concern, calling out on the Internet for a boycott of the Hostel and the Outfitters is simply wrong.

You should address your concerns in writing (with your real name as opposed to your anonymous complaint here) and you should wait to see what the owner of the business has to say before launching some sort of crusade here at Whiteblaze.

I'm NOT taking sides in this one, and I'm willing to keep an open mind, but I do know this: If someone has a legitimate complaint in how they've been treated by a business or by an employee of a particular business, then the proper thing to do is to take this up with the management or ownership of the business, to give THEM a chance to be aware of the facts of the matter, and to take action if they feel the situation warrants doing so.

I hope High Life follows thru on this and gets back to us after he does so.

Sly
10-15-2007, 16:14
High Life is cool, I met him last week. I doubt he'd go off without reason. That said, problems of this nature may be best settled in person.

Just a Hiker
10-15-2007, 16:18
removed post

High Life
10-15-2007, 16:27
I understand what your saying jack and we met at hikers welmome in glencliff
I know your a resonable man. I guess asking for an boycott is out of line and probably would never take hold.
My only wish is for this man to lose his job. He has no bussiness reprezenting this fine store. I did make some atempt to talk to Tom and Jeff about this before I was called " a jew boy from boston " in a high tension conversation with wally about the goings on around the hostel while i was staying there.
After I was called this name I became quite angry and let my feelings get that best of me a bit ,However after " Local" and others spoke with Tom and Wally it became quite clear there was no head way to be made. I went in the store and told Tom that he was not taking the matter seriously enough and that I would dispute the charges for the stay at the hostel. I have called my bank and done so already. I am also seriously considering leagal action.
I was also refered to as being" drunk " by Tom when i was actually the designated driver last night.
In closing I turned here to the Forums because this is where the hiking and Thru - Hiking Comunity comunicates . I would never with anyone to come here and go through the harrassment I have just went through .
I really love it here. Everyone has been so nice . I am so grateful for that.
It's a shame that this transplanted wack job has chosen to reside in such a beautiful place

Just a Hiker
10-15-2007, 16:33
removed post

Cosmic Crusader
10-15-2007, 16:38
If High Life is a stand up kid then he should realize this is not the place or the way to resolve what may be a personal or personnel issue. What he is doing here is as bad or worse than what he is complaining about. This should be handled off line.

I also disagree

Jack Tarlin
10-15-2007, 16:39
While I applaud Local for getting involved, High Life, I still think it is YOU whou should have approached the owner of the business, especially if you are considering witholding payment for service or contemplating legal action.

I really think you should put your concerns in a carefully written letter to Jeff Patrick and see what happens.

I feel bad about what evidently happened to you, High Life, and I can understand why you are upset, even angry. In your position, I'd probably feel the same way.

But I still think that when something like this happens, the best way to approach the situation is let your concerns be known to the people who most need to hear them.

And that's not us.

It's the folks who run MRO.

High Life
10-15-2007, 16:40
Well the goods were the nights stayed
if you paid for a room and an employee called your a racist name would you feel good paying for the room ? If an Employee ran through your area at 6 in the morning and was yelling in an attempt to delibrately disturb you because of your race ..would you still pay for it ? would you not be angry ? would you not feel that an apology was due?
furthermore punishing the wrong people , I don't agree with you and here's why .
wally created a atmosphere . Tom was on duty and allowed this atmosphere to continue after it was brought to his attention . this matter has not been given his atention at all. He is in denile . He made no attempt to apologize for his employees action.

Just a Hiker
10-15-2007, 16:42
removed post

Jack Tarlin
10-15-2007, 16:44
Wow. I'm gonna withdraw from this one for awhile.

I'm sorry you are so upset, High Life.

Once again, I urge you to contact the owner of the business. Write him a clear, concise ( and quite frankly, calmer and well-edited) letter and THEN see what develops. If you are ignored or belittled, which I DON'T think will happen, then your concerns will be widely seen as genuine. Until then, well, you are clearly expressing how angry you are, but I don't think you are expressing it to the best people.

High Life
10-15-2007, 16:45
Jack I do agree with you and I should write that letter A.S.A.P
and I'm glad you gave me this mans name . I didn't know who to complain to. Local had made an attempt to talk to Tom about it . Frankly it seemed like he did'nt care . However if I had the owners name I would have approached him on this matter . as for bringing this onto white blaze i do feel it was nesscessary . although I will say I may have not used enough tact in doing so ..


While I applaud Local for getting involved, High Life, I still think it is YOU whou should have approached the owner of the business, especially if you are considering witholding payment for service or contemplating legal action.

I really think you should put your concerns in a carefully written letter to Jeff Patrick and see what happens.

I feel bad about what evidently happened to you, High Life, and I can understand why you are upset, even angry. In your position, I'd probably feel the same way.

But I still think that when something like this happens, the best way to approach the situation is let your concerns be known to the people who most need to hear them.

And that's not us.

It's the folks who run MRO.

Cosmic Crusader
10-15-2007, 17:07
[quote=Jack Tarlin;426267]Jef is a very good and a very reasonable man (as is Tom, his store manager) and I'm sure you'll hear back from him; feel free to share with us what you discover.

But to baldly suggest that this business be shunned or boycotted is way out of line.quote]

Wrong

Jeff/Owner Needs to be the one here who picks up this ball and puts it where it belongs. The boss is responsible for his/her employee actions and reactions and any excuse on that equals a bad boss. Regardless of what services MRO has provided in the past to each of you or all of you - boycott is what gets the attention of business owners. If they do not agree that there is a problem this can very quickly show them that there is, and they can continue to operate the same and watch their business drop, or they can say "Hey I really should examine this and try to fix this so my customers are treated the same and all is as should be.

Since this involves a business it is not a personal thing - if you make it such you just seem to support the idea that this kind of thing is ok for anyone. Just ask yourself if you would want your wife, daughter, son or self treated this way and if it happened how Pi$$ed you would be at the person making stupid comments and their boss when it got brushed under the rug.

Just my 2 cents from someone who has had to endure and defend others against this kind of crap.

But you have to put your name and others to this and the owner has to know how you feel , not some hidden agenda blog that may or may not get noticed.

Lone Wolf
10-15-2007, 17:09
Wow. I'm gonna withdraw from this one for awhile.

I'm sorry you are so upset, High Life.

Once again, I urge you to contact the owner of the business. Write him a clear, concise ( and quite frankly, calmer and well-edited) letter and THEN see what develops. If you are ignored or belittled, which I DON'T think will happen, then your concerns will be widely seen as genuine. Until then, well, you are clearly expressing how angry you are, but I don't think you are expressing it to the best people.

there was an incident back in may involving wally and hikers at the hostel. it wasn't pretty. i approached jeff about it. jeff pretty much takes wally's side. there have been many complaints. nothing happens

Jack Tarlin
10-15-2007, 17:16
Cosmic Crusader:

For Jeff to pick up the ball and put it where it belongs, he first needs to be made aware of the problem, and this is best done by the person with the grievance.

Which is what I suggested, and which is hopefully now being done.

But to blanketly advocate a boycott of MRO based on what we've heard today is simply unfair to that business and to the fine man who runs it.

And yes, I'd be unhappy if me or anyone in my family was treated this way, but the implication that Jeff has brushed this matter under the rug is not necessarily true, and should not go unchallenged.

I'm going to wait and see what High Life hears back from the folks who run MRO, and I sugest that others might want to do likewise.

Johnny Thunder
10-15-2007, 17:18
HL...good luck in your hike.

I appreciate you sharing and appreciate warnings about this and other service providers. This is not the first time the "community" has heard individuals voice opinions about the unsavory actions of trail-related individuals/companies.

Cosmic Crusader
10-15-2007, 17:52
Cosmic Crusader:

For Jeff to pick up the ball and put it where it belongs, he first needs to be made aware of the problem, and this is best done by the person with the grievance.

Which is what I suggested, and which is hopefully now being done.

But to blanketly advocate a boycott of MRO based on what we've heard today is simply unfair to that business and to the fine man who runs it.

And yes, I'd be unhappy if me or anyone in my family was treated this way, but the implication that Jeff has brushed this matter under the rug is not necessarily true, and should not go unchallenged.

I'm going to wait and see what High Life hears back from the folks who run MRO, and I sugest that others might want to do likewise.

and in an age that lends itself to constraint and armchair judgement I would say most will sit back and see what happens - we are all given to bold and somewhat veiled keystrokes on this here misinformation highway - but I tend to think from having spent lots of time around folks that hate blacks, or northern folks, or jews ,or folks from south of our border - unless they are really smart and well controlled Everyone around them knows their views. There are only two sides here - and I am not saying lets get the torches ready for the march up the streets - but I also don't see anything wrong with an open forum on who and how many whos were treated this way - and let the owner know that their pocket may feel this in the end. Thats why as a business owner if your employee grabs some lady or calls someone a racial slur or tells jokes about the gays - you fire them on the spot. No one wants to be a part of a thread on this kind of thing but if you are you have to realize it is a very serious matter, and if you are a friend of Jeffs give him a call and tell him to log on and defend himself and or MRO and explain the story from his end because this is America and thats how it works. This is now online and everyone has to accept that if they are in business or just in public they may be talked about photographed or taped and put up for all to see and judged.

SGT Rock
10-15-2007, 17:55
Just for what it is worth. I have no dog in this hunt - just as an administrator...

We are keeping a close eye on this and hope it doesn't end up in some heated debate or whatever. We hope any issue is resolved between parties involved.

Shane! Come Back!
10-15-2007, 18:09
If High Life is a stand up kid then he should realize this is not the place or the way to resolve what may be a personal or personnel issue. What he is doing here is as bad or worse than what he is complaining about. This should be handled off line.

I disagree, too.

Make 'em accountable. Online. Offline. Whatever it takes.;)

Frosty
10-15-2007, 18:12
Jack I do agree with you and I should write that letter A.S.A.P
and I'm glad you gave me this mans name . I didn't know who to complain to. Local had made an attempt to talk to Tom about it . Frankly it seemed like he did'nt care . However if I had the owners name I would have approached him on this matter . as for bringing this onto white blaze i do feel it was nesscessary . although I will say I may have not used enough tact in doing so ..You have every right to bring this up here. Everyone's experience on the trail, good or bad, is further information for the rest of us to make our own judgements.

You are not the first person not to post without tact. Don't worry about it. If tact was a requirement to post, ATTROLL would not need the huge server/bandwidth he currently needs :D

What is going on is that there are certain sacred cows on this site vigorously defended by some of us. To point out that the emporer has no clothes (to mix metaphors) is to be invited to stop talking about it.

There is a reason for this: basically that some services have served the hiker community well. I admit I get prickly when someone criticizes a service that has been good to me. That's when I try to realize that everyone does not have the same experiences that I do, and try keep my mouth shut and fingers off the keyboard. I am actually successful once in a while.

There is no excuse, in my mind, for disparaging anyone because of race, color, religion, or even use of hammocks. For a business to permit it is unthinkable to me.

Please post back what results your complaint to the owner brings.

Appalachian Tater
10-15-2007, 18:40
I couldn't boycott MRO anyway.....they have been too good to me over the years.
Jim

Even if it were true and nothing were done about it? I am surprised by that.

Nightwalker
10-15-2007, 21:24
I've been having a wonderful time in Damascus . the people here have been great to me ,However when I stayed at Dave's Place some strange things began to happen. It turns out that one of the shuttle driver wally is not fond of jewish people and made this perfectly clear to me in a conversation. he will mess with you if you stay at dave's place and you are jewish . I am pleading for your support in this matter by asking you to boycott the store and hostel until he is terminated from his employment at M.R.O
sincerely High Life W.va -> ME. W.VA -> GA 07 :welcome

If you're talking about the taller, thinner guy in the store with the grey/white beard, he's not just racist. He seems to hate everyone. I wish Dave or Jeff would fire his butt.

Everyone else there, however, is as nice as they can be. That guy, though? He sucks, and badly.

Nightwalker
10-15-2007, 21:28
I spoke with Tom at Mount Rogers Outfitters and asked if he would discuss this with the persons in question...

Hey, Local! Is Jeff in management at MRO, or is he just the son of the owner?

Just a Hiker
10-15-2007, 21:34
removed post

Appalachian Tater
10-15-2007, 21:42
Please know Tater that I don't condone what happened to Highlife; however, I have personal reasons for being very loyal to Jeff and Dave. Therefore they get the benefit of the doubt with me; further, I also have confidence that they will do the right thing and make this right.:)

Just Jim

If their employee called a customer a "Jew boy from Boston" that's a pretty serious matter in my book. Specially if there are witnesses and it was not in retaliation for a similar ethnic slur. It would be interesting to know the whole conversation for context as it is difficult to imagine how something like that would occur. I am also curious as to how he could know that he was jewish unless he were wearing some sort of religious article.

Just a Hiker
10-15-2007, 21:49
removed post

Appalachian Tater
10-15-2007, 21:55
It's very easy to get get your credit card company to reverse charges, he probably already got the credit. It actually costs the merchant a good bit, something like $25-$30.

The owner should make a business decison and fire this employee if he is not nice to people. The ethnic slur would make a decision a lot easier for me if I were the owner.

Lugnut
10-16-2007, 00:06
If MRO is aware of this ongoing conversation, and I can't imagine they aren't by now, then the silence speaks volumes. Really sad.

Pacific Tortuga
10-16-2007, 01:07
Wally was the biggest A-Hole I have met in 25 years. He mistook me for someone else from the year before.

Jef and others told him I was never ever in VA. before this year but he said, "he knows, the others do not live there", he hated me with gusto. . Jef wanted to pray about it, and we did but I was hurt and needed to stay and recover but because of their dear Wally, I stayed my 3 days and had to leave.

The MRO owners where above board with me but did not want to loose Wally ............. I understood and left. Wally would see me walking down the road and would go to the other side of the street, JERK.
As much class as the MRO is, Wally was and is the opposite.

I'd stay and shop at the MRO and tell others they should go there any day of the week. Maybe it was the beard :-? he didn't like.

Crazy Larry #1
10-16-2007, 08:08
i've been hanging out with high life all week. he's a stand up kid. his problem isn't with dave or jeff. it's with wally. he's been ****ing with hikers all season. this isn;t the first incidentI second that opinion...............

EWS
10-16-2007, 08:10
If MRO is aware of this ongoing conversation, and I can't imagine they aren't by now, then the silence speaks volumes. Really sad.

I emailed them, since no one else said they had.

Crazy Larry #1
10-16-2007, 08:27
I'm putting my response to the thread below (from Hiker Towns and Hostels) on this general forum, because I think the matter is not just restricted to hostels.

First, Old Phart, I agree that Dave's Place has a history of hospitality. That is not being disputed. Your suggestion that this issue be taken up with the employer, Mount Rogers Outfitters, of the person in question was attempted.

High Life's contention that the person in question, known locally as "wally," made an anti-Semitic remark to him was overheard by one other hiker. I believe that people should have a chance to explain themselves, so I spoke with Wally. He was extremely hostile and did not confirm or deny his anti-Semitic remark. I spoke with Tom at Mount Rogers Outfitters and asked if he would discuss this with the persons in questions, and his comment he didn't want to discuss this because "I've made up my mind." I asked him if it bothered him that he possibly had working for him an anti-Semitic person who harassed Jewish hikers, and he said "You don't know that." Well, I don't, but it seemed logical to discuss these matters. Tom then said that "If you spread this around I'll come after you."

This is disappointing, to say the least. Damascus prides itself on its hospitality to hikers. Many of us invite them into our homes, drive them to places where they can resupply, drink beer with them, help them find work for a few days, and generally like and support the many interesting hikers who visit us. It is disappointing that this one person, who I'm told has a history of harassing hikers, should represent us in this negative way. It is disappointing that the employer of this person refuses to discusses the matter, and places the blame on the hiker. And now probably places the blame on me because I would like to discuss this matter.

I personally have a problem with racists and bigots, and don't mind confrontng them. There are perhaps those on this forum who don't think an anti-Jewish attitude is important, but I live here, both daughters live here, and my grand-children live here. We are all Jewish.

So this is probably just a note to Jewish hikers: watch out for this guy Wally at Dave's Place. If there is a problem when you get to Damascus, contact me. I'm easy to find.

I agree that Wally has been bad influence at dave's Place all summer. Besides, Jewish people are not the only people Wally seems to dislike. He has a dislike for other faiths as well. he made funf od me and said some rather nasty things a time or two out of ear shot about my faith. For awhile it bugged me. I even had a few words with him. The last time we got into it I decided it would be my last, I just went ahead and accepted him for what he is and who he is.

As far as Tom is concerned, I am not excusing Toms behavior but Tom has had one traumatic experience after another this year. I care for Tom and I will refrain from any opinion about him on this forum.

Wally on the other hand? Well, his big bad bubble needs to get busted.

Crazy Larry #1
10-16-2007, 08:47
I'm going to tell you guys right now, I have a very deep love for Jeff Patrick. I will never turn my back on him. That man has went the extra mile with me so much it's unreal. Jeffs dad Dave and I don't talk much, but I think he is a super cool dude. And I care for Tom as well.

It is obvious to me that Wally has some mental issues going on and I don't believe MRO is the right place for Wally. There has even been instances in other businesses with Wally.

However I do believe in Jeff and the message that he is carrying. So I am going to speak with my brother Jeff concerning this issue.

High Life
10-16-2007, 08:57
I appreciate everyone's support on this matter .
Thank you all. I beleive I will be hiking on soon . Therefore I may not be able to reply to other posts . As of this morning no apology has been made by the outfitter.

Pacific Tortuga
10-16-2007, 09:04
"Wally has mental issues", is an understatement.
Heart condition or not I would hate to own a business that is all about people and then have a Wally at times representing the company. I would worry if he'd go postal while shuttleing hiker's.
AGAIN, MRO is a class act and should not be judged by the likes of Wally. This is just the tip of the ice berg, I know a few more Trail people with more horror :eek: stories, just in time for Holloween.

DavidNH
10-16-2007, 09:18
I read through this and frankly got lost along the way.


But going back to the beginning.. the thread is about Dave's place hostel in Damascus, who has stayed there and what impressions were.

I stayed there in 2006. You don't get much, but at 10 bucks a night one can't really expect much. That said..you get a good shower, a dry place to bunk, and a porch. Bring a sleeping bag.

I am not going to comment on the rest of tihs thread. Don't even know where to begin.


I will simply toss out this unsolicited unrelated comment; It sure would be nice if on these hiking forums we had more threads about hiking. for example.. nice places to go, trip reports etc.

David

Just a Hiker
10-16-2007, 09:41
removed post

saimyoji
10-16-2007, 12:33
I am not going to comment on the rest of tihs thread. .....


I will simply toss out this unsolicited unrelated comment;

David

So which is it? :rolleyes:

musicwoman
10-16-2007, 12:57
As a Hiker-in-Training, and having never been to Damascus, may I add an objective opinion?

It is quite clear that most of you have strong feelings of loyalty to the owner of Dave's, and I am sure that there are good reasons for your loyalty. This gentleman, from what I have read, has been a true asset to the AT community and his facility seems to be somewhat of an "institution" in Va.. I do not believe for one moment that the actions of one very obnoxious employee should reflect on someone who has clearly had such a positive impact on the hiking community.

That said, in the interest of maintaining such a great reputation now and in the future, perhaps someone who is friendly with him could broach this subject? I haven't met a bigot yet on any trail I've hiked and I'm sure the AT is the same way. This employee could easily compromise the financial health of his business. Think about how devastating that would be to the AT community.

By the way, I am also Jewish, and I find Wally's comments truly sickening, however, I don't believe it reflects the sentiments of his employer (from what you all have said here), so it wouldn't stop me from going there. I am sure there are many who aren't as open-minded, and I would just hate to see his business suffer because of one misguided idiot.

High Life
10-16-2007, 13:08
As a Hiker-in-Training, and having never been to Damascus, may I add an objective opinion?

It is quite clear that most of you have strong feelings of loyalty to the owner of Dave's, and I am sure that there are good reasons for your loyalty. This gentleman, from what I have read, has been a true asset to the AT community and his facility seems to be somewhat of an "institution" in Va.. I do not believe for one moment that the actions of one very obnoxious employee should reflect on someone who has clearly had such a positive impact on the hiking community.

That said, in the interest of maintaining such a great reputation now and in the future, perhaps someone who is friendly with him could broach this subject? I haven't met a bigot yet on any trail I've hiked and I'm sure the AT is the same way. This employee could easily compromise the financial health of his business. Think about how devastating that would be to the AT community.

By the way, I am also Jewish, and I find Wally's comments truly sickening, however, I don't believe it reflects the sentiments of his employer (from what you all have said here), so it wouldn't stop me from going there. I am sure there are many who aren't as open-minded, and I would just hate to see his business suffer because of one misguided idiot.

Well said musicwoman. I certainly Recieved good service ( in store ) at M.R.O from Jeff. It's what went on at the hostel between wally and I .
Jeff sewed my pack for free and was extremely nice. Although I am not pleased with the way the situation was handled by Jeff . I do not wish to take their bussiness away. However I feel that the only way for me to resolve this was to bring it to the public eye. If their bussiness suffers from the actions of " one misguided idiot " they only have themselves to blame .
I also want to add that Damascus is great and that hiking the AT is an amazing time and no one should be discouraged by this totally isolated incident caused by " one misguided idiot"

Appalachian Tater
10-16-2007, 13:19
By the way, I am also Jewish, and I find Wally's comments truly sickening, however, I don't believe it reflects the sentiments of his employer (from what you all have said here), so it wouldn't stop me from going there. I am sure there are many who aren't as open-minded, and I would just hate to see his business suffer because of one misguided idiot.

It would be interesting to hear from the owner and even from Wally to get the other viewpoint. The owner was very helpful to me as well and it would indeed be a shame to see his business suffer because of a "bad" employee.

Sometimes, especially in small communities, behavior that is not approved of may be tolerated whereas others outside the community will not even tolerate it. Perhaps there is more understanding of the personality behind the behavior, of the life that person has led, and thus the reasons for the behavior, in other words, more forgiving.

Or maybe there's no excuse.

High Life, what was the context for the behavior? Was there an argument over something? What led up to it? How did he know you were jewish? Was his behavior strange in any other way?

High Life
10-16-2007, 13:52
It would be interesting to hear from the owner and even from Wally to get the other viewpoint. The owner was very helpful to me as well and it would indeed be a shame to see his business suffer because of a "bad" employee.

Sometimes, especially in small communities, behavior that is not approved of may be tolerated whereas others outside the community will not even tolerate it. Perhaps there is more understanding of the personality behind the behavior, of the life that person has led, and thus the reasons for the behavior, in other words, more forgiving.

Or maybe there's no excuse.

High Life, what was the context for the behavior? Was there an argument over something? What led up to it? How did he know you were jewish? Was his behavior strange in any other way?

From what i can tell this man goes around with quite a chip on his shoulder.
I don't know him and was never introduced or had a previous meeting.
he leaves a couple of guitars in the hostel . for some reason he didnt like me playing them. i am very gentle with guitars and play quite well ( if i can say so myself) . He went and De-tuned the guitars on purpose . Then when i tuned them back up he took away a few strings. I can only figure he didnt want a "jew" to play his instruments. then he came in the hostel at 5:45 am and Yelled several times " This is Jeff from M.R.O is mrs. doolittle here .
He's not jeff and there was no mrs. Doolittle . when i walked outside after i awoke . he was just walking around and peering in the front windows ,as to see weather he got me up or not . when i went outside I asked him what was going on and he had some snide remarks that i can;t remember i was half asleep . then later in the morning i realized my poles where missing .
he had found them in the room that i stayed in the night before and removed them from the hostel not alerting Packrat or anyone else to this .
then he gives me my pulls and gives me some attitude . so i asked him " do you not like thru-hikers or are you always a jerk.. thats when i recived his jew boy response. I can only figure that my face looks jewish to him . maybe i should wear a yellow star of david on my sleeve with the word "judas"

Sly
10-16-2007, 14:32
This employee could easily compromise the financial health of his business. Think about how devastating that would be to the AT community.



Perhaps to the owners and some of the employees but, losing one outfitter in Damascus would not be devastating to the AT community.

Jack Tarlin
10-16-2007, 14:37
It's one of the best Outfitters on the entire Trail, Sly, and has been for many many years.

Your comment above is kind of foolish.

Sly
10-16-2007, 14:41
It's one of the best Outfitters on the entire Trail, Sly, and has been for many many years.

Your comment above is kind of foolish.

Oh give me a break. If you planned properly, most of the time you don't even need an outfitter and there's another one in town. A commercial enterprise really has nothing to do with the "AT community"

warren doyle
10-16-2007, 14:44
MRO will live on (fortunately) as well as mean-spirited and unwarranted name-calling/character assassination (unfortunately) - all we have to look at is a vocal minority in our own WB 'community'.

I stongly feel this handful of vitriolic posters are more devastating to the AT community than the loss of any particular hiker service.

Appalachian Tater
10-16-2007, 14:44
From what i can tell this man goes around with quite a chip on his shoulder.
I don't know him and was never introduced or had a previous meeting.
he leaves a couple of guitars in the hostel . for some reason he didnt like me playing them. i am very gentle with guitars and play quite well ( if i can say so myself) . He went and De-tuned the guitars on purpose . Then when i tuned them back up he took away a few strings. I can only figure he didnt want a "jew" to play his instruments. then he came in the hostel at 5:45 am and Yelled several times " This is Jeff from M.R.O is mrs. doolittle here .
He's not jeff and there was no mrs. Doolittle . when i walked outside after i awoke . he was just walking around and peering in the front windows ,as to see weather he got me up or not . when i went outside I asked him what was going on and he had some snide remarks that i can;t remember i was half asleep . then later in the morning i realized my poles where missing .
he had found them in the room that i stayed in the night before and removed them from the hostel not alerting Packrat or anyone else to this .
then he gives me my poles and gives me some attitude . so i asked him " do you not like thru-hikers or are you always a jerk.. thats when i recived his jew boy response. I can only figure that my face looks jewish to him . maybe i should wear a yellow star of david on my sleeve with the word "judas"

That behavior certainly sounds odd. What did the owner say about it?

Jack Tarlin
10-16-2007, 14:45
Why should I give you a break?

You're talking nonsense today.

According to you, only ill-prepared hikers need outfitters once they're on the Trail?

Only ill-prepared people need to replace things like bootlaces or socks or Aqua Mira? Only ill-prepared peope have warranty issues, or need a minor repair done on their gear? Only ill-prepared peole need to buy food or duel?

Sorry, Sly, but your comment above is about the dumbest thing I've seen here in a very long time.

rafe
10-16-2007, 14:48
Only ill-prepared peole need to buy food or duel?


I thought at one point that when you and I finally met a due would be inevitable. Aside from that, I've never needed a duel on the AT. :D

Sly
10-16-2007, 14:50
LOL... yeah think? It's just a store. Hostels and stores close all the time. None have been devastating to the trail or the community and MRO's closing would be no exception.

warren doyle
10-16-2007, 14:50
Sly,

I think your post #64 was quite reasonable.

Happy trails!

Warren

musicwoman
10-16-2007, 14:52
Come on guys, this doesn't accomplish anything except add hostility to an already difficult situation.

I have never met Jeff. If he is the stand up guy that most here believe him to be, then I think he would certainly try to make things right w/ High Life.

From what I understand, their reputation is fantastic and I will re-iterate that I would hate to see a bad employee hurt his business.

But again, bottom line, as the business owner, he's the one who need to do what's right. I hope it all works out for all parties concerned.

Sly
10-16-2007, 14:52
Although we don't always agree, thanks Warren.

warren doyle
10-16-2007, 14:57
You are welcome.
We don't have to agree all the time to respect another's love/passion for the trail.
I wish more people would feel like that.
Thanks for all your efforts on organizing the SORUCK over the years.

Happy tolerant trails!

musicwoman
10-16-2007, 15:06
Sly,

As your issue seems to be my use of the word "devastating", please replace that word with "a negative impact on"......

Either way, it wouldn't be a positive.

Sly
10-16-2007, 15:40
Sly,

As your issue seems to be my use of the word "devastating", please replace that word with "a negative impact on"......

Either way, it wouldn't be a positive.

Actually, I think it would be neutral. After one season it wouldn't be missed.

Jack Tarlin
10-16-2007, 15:44
Another foolish statement.

The Outfitter here in Hanover has been closed for years and people STILL miss it.

I don't know why Sly is speaking so poorly of Mount Rogers Outfitters, but I just want to go on record and say that over many years, the vast majority of hikers have LOVED this place.

But if Sly and Warren don't care if the place is there anymore, or don't wish to patronize the place, that's fine too.

I assure you that THEY won't be missed, either.

See, it works both ways, guys.

Sly
10-16-2007, 15:57
I'm not speaking negatively, just realistically. Stores/outfitters seldom enhance my trail experience. If MRO closed and I needed something I'd just order it off the interent or go to Sundog's. In NH, you can take the bus and go to West Lebanon, which may add to the experience.

From all I've read, if MRO wants to keep it's reputation, something needs to be done about Wally.

musicwoman
10-16-2007, 16:01
"From all I've read, if MRO wants to keep it's reputation, something needs to be done about Wally."

That was my original point. Instead of dissecting my choice of words, you could have just posted that and saved some time:).

Local
10-16-2007, 16:38
....................

By the way, I am also Jewish, and I find Wally's comments truly sickening, however, I don't believe it reflects the sentiments of his employer (from what you all have said here), so it wouldn't stop me from going there.......


musicwoman, when I approached Tom at Mount Rogers and tried to discuss this with him, I reported the ethnic slur to him and he said, quote, "I see nothing wrong with that." So in his world and Wally's world ethnic slurs are ok.

I do not support any "boycott" or other action against Mount Rogers Outfitters. This is a simple matter of a person with a hostile attitude being employed by that organization. A responsible owner of a business would step up and address this situation, instead of ignoring it.

musicwoman
10-16-2007, 16:48
"A responsible owner of a business would step up and address this situation"

I agree with you on that 100% and if he does not, that will tell volumes about his character.

Appalachian Tater
10-16-2007, 16:59
I'm not speaking negatively, just realistically. Stores/outfitters seldom enhance my trail experience. If MRO closed and I needed something I'd just order it off the interent or go to Sundog's. In NH, you can take the bus and go to West Lebanon, which may add to the experience.

From all I've read, if MRO wants to keep it's reputation, something needs to be done about Wally.

I agree with you but I was quite grateful that the little outfitter in Hanover had alcohol. A trip on a bus was not something I wanted to be bothered with. Those guys were very nice, especially considering it's not really a hiker store.

Sly
10-16-2007, 17:05
I agree with you but I was quite grateful that the little outfitter in Hanover had alcohol. A trip on a bus was not something I wanted to be bothered with. Those guys were very nice, especially considering it's not really a hiker store.

Yeah, it's nice to have on trail amenities. On the CDT, there are several times you need to hitch 20-50 miles just to resupply. In cases like this, a short bus ride would be a nice diversion.

Nightwalker
10-16-2007, 19:50
I stongly feel this handful of vitriolic posters are more devastating to the AT community than the loss of any particular hiker service.

I agree. And if we argue with them, we are "foolish" or worse. Geeze...

Pacific Tortuga
10-16-2007, 19:52
"A responsible owner of a business would step up and address this situation"

I agree with you on that 100% and if he does not, that will tell volumes about his character.


It goes deeper than just "step up". My feeling was that Dave(original owner), his son, Jeff (new owner) and Tom (the man that makes it all run) have a deep, long friendship with Wally.
They seem to have taken him under their wing to try to help him WITH all Wallys faults. They know exactly what Wally does but are able to dig deep and forgive him like their faith teaches them.
I was treated so poorly and felt it was so wrong. I know this does not make sence to many but they place their faith in the hopes Wally will see the light.(in my opinion)
Wally has some medical problems and his friends at MRO are standing by him. It was hard to grasp, obviously I still carry bagage but it is very noble and hope we all have friends like them.

musicwoman
10-16-2007, 20:04
I am not familiar with their religious practices, although some might construe their attitude as one of having their heads in the sand rather than turning the other cheek and hoping someone changes.

Appalachian Tater
10-16-2007, 20:14
It goes deeper than just "step up". My feeling was that Dave(original owner), his son, Jeff (new owner) and Tom (the man that makes it all run) have a deep, long friendship with Wally.
They seem to have taken him under their wing to try to help him WITH all Wallys faults. They know exactly what Wally does but are able to dig deep and forgive him like their faith teaches them.
I was treated so poorly and felt it was so wrong. I know this does not make sence to many but they place their faith in the hopes Wally will see the light.(in my opinion)
Wally has some medical problems and his friends at MRO are standing by him. It was hard to grasp, obviously I still carry bagage but it is very noble and hope we all have friends like them.

I suspected something like that but they still owe you an apology for their employee's behavior.

Pacific Tortuga
10-16-2007, 20:28
I suspected something like that but they still owe you an apology for their employee's behavior.


Without really going there they helped me find a camp site at a neighbors home and other Damascus homies like L. Wolf, TOW and
"The Place" helped alot. I had 17 0's in Damascus (a record i didn't want) as per the saw bones in Hot Springs. The Place really helped after I spoke to the caretaker and the 10$ per night I would have spent at Dave's Place went to the hostel.
I was able to hike out and Wally and I still ran into each other as he was dropping off hikers at crossroads ........ it began to be fun ribbing each other.

Jack Tarlin
10-16-2007, 20:29
Geez, enough already.

Now people are psychoanalyzing the owners and discussing their religious practices.

I suggest that anyone that is TRULY concerned about this matter write or call the owners of the business, rather than engaging in anonymous Internet commentary here.

If you have a concern or complaint about how a particular business is handling its affairs, then this needs to be taken up first with the guy who runs the business.

But speculating about the owners' character or worse, his religious beliefs, is more than a little uncalled for.

And the nasty implications that if this store were to close, it'd be no great loss, is nothing more than a great dis-service to the people who've worked there for years, who have helped untold thousands of hikers. I daresay Jeff Patrick and his staff have helped a helluva lot more hikers over the years than have some of the people who are indifferent to the continued existence of this store, who I will not embarass by naming.

But enough already. If you have a beef with MRO, then by all means get in touch with the owner and feel free to tell us what happened. But to try and convict these people on the Internet without actually talking to anyone there is wrong. It's a dis-service to Whiteblaze, and does not elevate the people making the strongest comments here on this thread.

Appalachian Tater
10-16-2007, 20:34
Without really going there they helped me find a camp site at a neighbors home and other Damascus homies like L. Wolf, TOW and
"The Place" helped alot. I had 17 0's in Damascus (a record i didn't want) as per the saw bones in Hot Springs. The Place really helped after I spoke to the caretaker and the 10$ per night I would have spent at Dave's Place went to the hostel.
I was able to hike out and Wally and I still ran into each other as he was dropping off hikers at crossroads ........ it began to be fun ribbing each other.

I'm sorry, I meant that they still owe Local an apology for their employee's behavior, because of the ethnic slur, regardless of any explanation.

rafe
10-16-2007, 20:37
Geez, enough already.

Says the guy who's tied for first place in # of posts to the thread. :rolleyes:

Jack Tarlin
10-16-2007, 20:47
What a witless comment, Terrapin.

All I'm trying to do is keep the thread reasonably civil by repeatedly suggesting that this matter needs to be discussed with the owner of MRO as opposed to merely being discussed here on the Internet.

If you have nothing to contribute here except counting people's posts, Terrapin, maybe should should excuse yourself from the discussion.

musicwoman
10-16-2007, 20:59
Well then, if no one else wants to, I will certainly call MRO tomorrow and let them know that, planning my section in that area for June of next year, I have no desire to deal with an outfitter whose employer is an Anti-Semite.

OR, perhaps someone who is friendly with them can approach them and tell them that word of this incident is rubbing lots of hikers the wrong way and most feel that this needs to be addressed.....

If what Local says is true (and I have no reason to believe otherwise) then it seems that management condones this Anti-Semitic attitude. I certainly have no problem calling MRO and asking them what, if anything, they intend to do about this.

musicwoman
10-16-2007, 20:59
I meant to say, "whose employEE is an anti-semite, not employer.

rickb
10-16-2007, 21:00
Jack,

For what its worth I already sent them this e-mail:


This e-mail is intended for owners and management of Mount Rodgers Outfitters.

Hello,

I am an active participant at a popular AT website www.whiteblaze.net (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/../)

Recently there have been some very serious comments regarding one of your employees and anti-Semitic remarks and behavior.

These comments can be found here:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1050

To my way of thinking it is important that you are aware of this discussion. I also would like to think that you may find it important to reply, but that is not my call.

Best Regards,

Rick Buodrie

Appalachian Tater
10-16-2007, 21:01
I certainly have no problem calling MRO and asking them what, if anything, they intend to do about this.

Please start off the conversation by telling them you're calling from New York just to set the right tone! And ask for Wally!

Lone Wolf
10-16-2007, 21:02
Well then, if no one else wants to, I will certainly call MRO tomorrow and let them know that, planning my section in that area for June of next year, I have no desire to deal with an outfitter whose employer is an Anti-Semite.

OR, perhaps someone who is friendly with them can approach them and tell them that word of this incident is rubbing lots of hikers the wrong way and most feel that this needs to be addressed.....

If what Local says is true (and I have no reason to believe otherwise) then it seems that management condones this Anti-Semitic attitude. I certainly have no problem calling MRO and asking them what, if anything, they intend to do about this.

jeff is aware of this thread. he's dealing with the situation. no need to call him ang bug him

Jack Tarlin
10-16-2007, 21:04
Wolf thread says it all.

I suggest people chill out for a bit and wait to see what transpires.

Pacific Tortuga
10-16-2007, 21:04
Jack, with 17 days in Damascus I'd say I spoke with them often about what was going on, as did many more past and present hikers.

This just brought out a soar subject with me, and as you see, I respect MRO and all they do for the community and outdoor lovers.

rickb
10-16-2007, 21:15
jeff is aware of this thread. he's dealing with the situation.

What was his reaction?

excuses
10-16-2007, 22:22
My 2 cents, I had 3 long shuttle rides with wally this summer. The rides went easy and the talk was quite civil. I'm amazed at this thread and thought i must be thinking about someone else. i have a beard and had no comments made. The shower that comes with the shuttle/parking was appreciated. The service was excellent.

Appalachian Tater
10-16-2007, 22:28
i have a beard and had no comments made.

What does that have to do with anything? A LOT of hikers have beards.

Pacific Tortuga
10-16-2007, 22:39
I said it must be the beard because I met Wally in March and we got along, then in May he thought I was someone else he hated. The only thing that changed was a beard I grew while hiking.

Crazy Larry #1
10-17-2007, 07:48
Cosmic Crusader:

For Jeff to pick up the ball and put it where it belongs, he first needs to be made aware of the problem, and this is best done by the person with the grievance.

.

I had a very good talk with Jeff privately about this whole thing yesterday.

Crazy Larry #1
10-17-2007, 07:58
I totally agree that this is a serious matter, and I am a bit surprised that Jeff and Dave even have an azzhole like that working there. I totally understand why Highlife is mad, I would be too! I hope just hope this gets resolved the right way.....meaning Highlife gets an apology and his money back, and this Wally character gets his walking papers!

Just Jim
Since you know what Jeff is like then you know that Jeff goes the extra mile with everyone. And this is in my opinion why Jeff is keeping Wally around. And man, that's why I love Jeff. He is not afraid of what others think he should do, he is going to do what he thinks is best.

Like I said in an earlier statement, I had a personal talk with Jeff on this matter and I stand by him, not anyone else but Jeff.

sourwood
10-17-2007, 08:12
I have had great experiences at both the Outfitter and the hostel. I don't know all the details of the people involved but have made the followiing assumptions reading this thread:
Wally is a person who has some mental health issues
The guys at MRO are helping Wally out.

I commend them for this. There are some who have called for Wally to be fired. Well, I don't think this is such a black and white issue. There seem to be many layers of complexity here. Let's say Wally is fired. What happens to him then? You would think the hiking community would be the kind of place which would accept some "out of the norm" behavior. And, if Wally is fired, who's facing discrimination then? Let's show a little tolerance folks. We can't all be perfect. As one of my favorite teachers used to tell his students when they felt they had suffered some injustice, "It's not all about you".

Julie

Local
10-17-2007, 08:13
I'm sorry, I meant that they still owe Local an apology for their employee's behavior, because of the ethnic slur, regardless of any explanation.

Ain't me that needs the apology. High Life was the recipient of the anti-Jewish attitude. When I tried to discuss this with Wally he went whacko and started yelling. I have deep respect for Jeff and Dave and believe they will do the right thing.

Local
10-17-2007, 08:18
........... Let's say Wally is fired. What happens to him then? ..........Julie

I understand your sentiments, sourwood. But understand that Damascus is a very small town and we are all in contact with each other frequently, except those who live up the hollers ("hollows" to flatlanders). Maybe you could invite him to live in Black Mountain with you? That would be very supportive and would back up your words.

Lone Wolf
10-17-2007, 08:22
There are some who have called for Wally to be fired. Well, I don't think this is such a black and white issue. There seem to be many layers of complexity here.

BS. he's treated many hikers and locals like s**t. time for him to go. it's very black and white

Creek Dancer
10-17-2007, 08:54
Two friends of mine and I stayed at Dave's Place a couple of months ago. Without going into details, let's just say that Wally was less than welcoming. No, we didn't talk to the owner. No one really thought it was necessary. But at the end of our trip, we decided against Dave's Place and stayed at The Place instead.

musicwoman
10-17-2007, 09:31
Perhaps Jeff can keep Wally on in another capacity? Maybe one in which contact with the public isn't necessary (ie, repairing gear, etc)

rafe
10-17-2007, 10:11
Perhaps Jeff can keep Wally on in another capacity? Maybe one in which contact with the public isn't necessary (ie, repairing gear, etc)

Exactly. . . .

Appalachian Tater
10-17-2007, 10:14
Ain't me that needs the apology. High Life was the recipient of the anti-Jewish attitude. When I tried to discuss this with Wally he went whacko and started yelling. I have deep respect for Jeff and Dave and believe they will do the right thing.

Okay, I meant High Life, not Local or Pacific Tortuga, should get an apology. If the owner said he didn't have a problem with his employee calling a customer a "Jew boy from Boston", that's an issue as well.

I suppose the other businessmen in Damascus should be concerned about this as well as a tourist town can't afford boycotts by the well-organized anti-hate groups. The only one who could benefit from this would be the other outfitter up by Dot's.

Appalachian Tater
10-17-2007, 10:27
I have had great experiences at both the Outfitter and the hostel. I don't know all the details of the people involved but have made the followiing assumptions reading this thread:
Wally is a person who has some mental health issues
The guys at MRO are helping Wally out.

I commend them for this. There are some who have called for Wally to be fired. Well, I don't think this is such a black and white issue. There seem to be many layers of complexity here. Let's say Wally is fired. What happens to him then? You would think the hiking community would be the kind of place which would accept some "out of the norm" behavior. And, if Wally is fired, who's facing discrimination then? Let's show a little tolerance folks. We can't all be perfect. As one of my favorite teachers used to tell his students when they felt they had suffered some injustice, "It's not all about you".

Julie

Assumptions shouldn't be made in situations like this although that's what it sounds like to me as well. It's a little too early to commend or condemn.

warren doyle
10-17-2007, 13:02
Post #78 - Yet another garbage interpretation by putting words into people's mouths, and thoughts into people's minds, that aren't there. I guess Plato called them 'men of clay'. I prefer 'shriveled souls'.

Post #93 - A new internet term to describe posts from people who absolutely have no moral authority to preach and/or to criticize others until they clean-up their own act:

"YGBKM!" = "You gotta be kidding me!"

musicwoman
10-17-2007, 13:11
Post #116- Posted merely for the purpose of creating more animosity amongst people.

Surely you don't feel that you added anything valuable to this thread, do you?

I've never met Jack Tarlin nor have I met you, but let's call a spade a spade: Your statement was posted to stir up trouble, nothing more, nothing less.

Your reputation and ego precede you and I understand you have made wonderful contributions to the AT and surrounding community. Why you would post such a statement is beyond me.

Appalachian Tater
10-17-2007, 13:13
Post #78 - Yet another garbage interpretation by putting words into people's mouths, and thoughts into people's minds, that aren't there. I guess Plato called them 'men of clay'. I prefer 'shriveled souls'.

Post #93 - A new internet term to describe posts from people who absolutely have no moral authority to preach and/or to criticize others until they clean-up their own act:

"YGBKM!" = "You gotta be kidding me!"

LOLZ

http://www.google.com/search?q=ygbkm&sourceid=mozilla2&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

p0wned teh n00b

Appalachian Tater
10-17-2007, 13:15
Post #116- Posted merely for the purpose of creating more animosity amongst people.

Surely you don't feel that you added anything valuable to this thread, do you?

I've never met Jack Tarlin nor have I met you, but let's call a spade a spade: Your statement was posted to stir up trouble, nothing more, nothing less.

Your reputation and ego precede you and I understand you have made wonderful contributions to the AT and surrounding community. Why you would post such a statement is beyond me.

Actually he has been on his best behavior lately. The only dangerous AND illegal activity he has been promoting is jumping off of bridges.

Sly
10-17-2007, 13:25
Actually he has been on his best behavior lately. The only dangerous AND illegal activity he has been promoting is jumping off of bridges.

Dangerous perhaps but, I don't think bridge jumping is illegal in all circumstances.

Appalachian Tater
10-17-2007, 13:29
Dangerous perhaps but, I don't think bridge jumping is illegal in all circumstances.

Who said it was illegal in all circumstances???!!??? He advocated it on certain bridges, on at least some of which it is illegal. Most of the time it is illegal to jump or dive from bridges, sometimes even to fish from them. Probably not the easiest one to defend him on, try sneaking through gates before the security guard gets there or some of his other antics. :)

SGT Rock
10-17-2007, 13:31
Lets not turn this into another Warren Doyle thread.

Creek Dancer
10-17-2007, 13:33
I agree. His post was only meant to instigate an argument. Sad really.


Post #116- Posted merely for the purpose of creating more animosity amongst people.

Surely you don't feel that you added anything valuable to this thread, do you?

I've never met Jack Tarlin nor have I met you, but let's call a spade a spade: Your statement was posted to stir up trouble, nothing more, nothing less.

Your reputation and ego precede you and I understand you have made wonderful contributions to the AT and surrounding community. Why you would post such a statement is beyond me.

Sly
10-17-2007, 13:34
Who said it was illegal in all circumstances???!!??? He advocated it on certain bridges, on at least some of which it is illegal. Most of the time it is illegal to jump or dive from bridges, sometimes even to fish from them. Probably not the easiest one to defend him on, try sneaking through gates before the security guard gets there or some of his other antics. :)

Are you in the Trinity? :p I make my own moral judgments, not all follow the letter of law.

warren doyle
10-17-2007, 13:36
And you can also drive into National Parks for free in the early morning before they open the entrance booths.

So, the early bird not only gets the worm (by opening a can of them) but I also can ford the Kennebec and enjoy our national park's natural splendors that my tax money is already supporting (and should be supporting more).

musicwoman
10-17-2007, 13:38
*makes mental note not to cross any bridges while Sly, Tater, or W. Doyle is around*...

High Life
10-17-2007, 19:36
This hostel is owned and operated by Mt. Rogers Outfitters. Located directly across the street from the outfitter it has 5 private rooms, 2 with double bunks and the others with 2 single bunks. Each room has heaters, fans, sleeping pads, shelving and towels for the shower. There's an inside sitting area with a microwave and books and mags. Outside is a covered deck/patio with a gas grill, coolers, picnic table and chairs. Also a deep sink for washing stuff. Last year it was $10.00 per room. I don't know this years prices.
They also provide shuttles and safe parking. They are very hiker friendly. Phone# 276-475-5416 for more info and prices.
I am back on the Trail and heading south. I would like to thank all the people in Damascus, VA for helping me while I was there. Can't wait until Trail (Toxic) Daze to come back and visit again. Maybe Wally the Hostel Nazi will be employed elsewhere.

Appalachian Tater
10-17-2007, 19:41
Maybe Wally the Hostel Nazi will be employed elsewhere.

Well, I guess you two are even now! All's well that ends well. Can we call off the boycott?

Frosty
10-17-2007, 20:27
Let's say Wally is fired. What happens to him then? You would think the hiking community would be the kind of place which would accept some "out of the norm" behavior. And, if Wally is fired, who's facing discrimination then? Let's show a little tolerance folks.I commend your good heartedness. You have attained a level of tolerance and acceptance I am nowhere close to achieving.

I embrace "out of the norm" behavior, but racism and bigotry are tough for me to accept.

We all have built in biases and prejudices. Sometimes we surprise ourselves with our thoughts, and wonder, "Where the hell did that come from?"

But some people are deeply commited to racist beliefs, and look for ways to express them. They do not see it as improper behavior. Such a person is lucky he doesn't work for me. I don't believe it is discrimination to fire an employee who continues with racist behavior.

Pirate
10-17-2007, 20:35
Hey boy! Don't you go and insult Miss Janet with any of your Yankee "prob'ly" stuff. That is THE best breakfast, not just on the trail, but in all Christendom and beyond!

I love you Miss Janet! Will you marry me, or at least cook for me, forever?

The Weasel

Too many free loaders taking advantage of Miss Janets and other hostel owners hospitality. I am sorry she has to close. A lot of the hostels have closed because of so called thu hikers think they are special because they are hiking the AT and do not have to pay for their stay. They break the simple rules for an overnight stay..so the hostels close down. Don't forget to put money in the donation box!!!!!!!!

Lone Wolf
10-17-2007, 21:17
Well, I guess you two are even now! All's well that ends well. Can we call off the boycott?

i can tell you for sure that High Life didn't post that last comment. i took him to the trail at 9:00am today. he forgot to log out on a computer in town and a person posted using his name.

looks like wally will stay on at MRO. High Life was not apologized to. it will be swept under the rug. too bad.

Sly
10-17-2007, 21:24
i can tell you for sure that High Life didn't post that last comment. i took him to the trail at 9:00am today. he forgot to log out on a computer in town and a person posted using his name.


Maybe he has a cellphone or PDA with a browser and email.

Lone Wolf
10-17-2007, 21:26
Maybe he has a cellphone or PDA with a browser and email.

no. he doesn't .i know exactly who posted.

Appalachian Tater
10-17-2007, 21:28
no. he doesn't .i know exactly who posted.

Under the circumstances it would be appropriate to ask an administrator to remove the post if you know who made it.

Sly
10-17-2007, 21:31
no. he doesn't .i know exactly who posted.

That's good. I'd hate to see him continue the thread while hiking. Hopefully, he'll forget about it the rest of his hike.

Lone Wolf
10-17-2007, 21:34
That's good. I'd hate to see him continue the thread while hiking. Hopefully, he'll forget about it the rest of his hike.

i'm sure he will. the fact remains the Ahole who started this s**t stays employed. sad

Just a Hiker
10-17-2007, 22:12
removed post

Sly
10-17-2007, 22:20
I know Jeff only sees the good in people Wanderer.....thats what makes Jeff who he is, and that is why I am loyal to MRO as well. :)


How would you feel about MRO if Wally got personally insulting?

Lone Wolf
10-17-2007, 22:22
How would you feel about MRO if Wally got personally insulting?

doesn't matter obviously. he's loyal to MRO no matter what :rolleyes:

Just a Hiker
10-17-2007, 22:32
removed post

Skidsteer
10-17-2007, 22:32
Wally may pop off to the wrong hiker at some point and get his attitude adjusted.

Some folks don't play. Jus' sayin'.

Just a Hiker
10-17-2007, 22:33
removed post

Lone Wolf
10-17-2007, 22:34
Wally may pop off to the wrong hiker at some point and get his attitude adjusted.

Some folks don't play. Jus' sayin'

that's what i'm hopin' for. :cool: too bad MRO will keep him til that happens

Lone Wolf
10-17-2007, 22:35
[QUOTE=Just a Hiker;428215]I am also loyal to you Wolf for the same reason!

...........

Just a Hiker
10-17-2007, 22:42
removed post

Skidsteer
10-17-2007, 22:46
I'll tell you what the **** that means! The first time I hiked into Damascus, I was the guy hiking with the $2 dollar bookbag, and not much else. And it was you and Jeff Patrick who were the first two people on the whole damn trail to treat me decent. That gets my loyalty, and I don't give a **** what you or anyone else thinks about that!

Just Jim

Pithy! :D

Crazy Larry #1
10-18-2007, 17:03
How would you feel about MRO if Wally got personally insulting?
Wally has been personally insulting to me, but it does not affect what I think about MRO........

Crazy Larry #1
10-18-2007, 17:05
that's what i'm hopin' for. :cool: too bad MRO will keep him til that happens
I told Jeff that that will more than likely happen, I mean that fellar just can't keep his trap shut too long..............

Sly
10-18-2007, 19:11
Wally has been personally insulting to me, but it does not affect what I think about MRO........

Whatever. Any place that keeps on employees that insults their customers needs to be re-examined. I'm certainly not going to pay for the privilege. I'd get a dominatrix for that. :p

Tin Man
10-18-2007, 20:08
...........

Cosmic Crusader
10-18-2007, 20:40
Plain and simple 1 customer down - and yes I have spent several hundred there over the years.

Just like hostels must close because of hiker abuse so the community has the choice to support or not support abusive hostels and business policy.

Just my vote and no more or less important than the many that "know" Jeff and others involved, proof or no - the uncontested concept here is just not cool at all.

My End

Tin Man
10-18-2007, 20:56
I have seen businesses support people with "issues". While we do not know the nature of these issues - medical or ignorance - it does seem that Jeff is trying help a friend and perhaps we need to hear from Jeff on this instead of making judgements.

In general, when a business supports an employee who has issues with the public they either, a) put them to work away from customers as was suggested earlier or b) warn their customers to pay him no mind. It would be interesting and helpful to hear Jeff's perspective on the Wally issue.

Pacific Tortuga
10-18-2007, 21:17
The only way to effect Wally is to stop getting shuttles from him. He contributes nothing else to MRO, but money made through shuttles. If there was a way to get the word out that others in Damascus will shuttle for less and not use Wally through the MRO, his purpose there will no longer be needed.

Please do not boycott the MRO, great people with skills and knowledge that have helped many.

Appalachian Tater
10-18-2007, 21:26
I wouldn't get in a vehicle with him.

Pirate
10-18-2007, 22:05
What about Rustys famous pancakes, or Weaseys all you can eat pancakes in Waynesboro, YUM YUM YUM.

Crazy Larry #1
10-19-2007, 07:05
Whatever. Any place that keeps on employees that insults their customers needs to be re-examined. I'm certainly not going to pay for the privilege. I'd get a dominatrix for that. :p
You know Sly, I agree with you. If I were anyone else I would never go back there after having to put up with that idiot.

By the way Wally just knows how to be insulting, he doesn't know how to back it up. I have witnessed and have heard and have experienced Wally's mouth but when one invites Wally to take a "Wlak In The Woods" Wally's butt puckers up...........

Pacific Tortuga
10-19-2007, 09:02
thats not banjo music i hear ?

Local
10-19-2007, 09:11
The only response from Jeff that I've heard was that "It's in the Lord's hands."

After things calm down a bit I'll try to discuss this with Jeff, and write a letter to him just to document that I think this guy Wally is dangerous to the community. After thirty years of working with corrections and being a trainer for law enforcement I have some sense of who is dangerous and who is not. In my opinion this guy is dangerous and a potential threat to both hikers and local residents. By doing nothing Jeff is supporting and encouraging him.

generoll
10-19-2007, 09:14
sort of a southern version of 'Granite'? dangerous like that?

EWS
10-19-2007, 10:14
The only response from Jeff that I've heard was that "It's in the Lord's hands."

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Gray Blazer
10-19-2007, 14:03
thats when i recived his jew boy response. I can only figure that my face looks jewish to him . maybe i should wear a yellow star of david on my sleeve with the word "judas"

Next time someone calls you that or asks if you are a jew, look them in the eye and tell them "I'm an American. What are you?" That should work as long as you are in this country.

Appalachian Tater
10-19-2007, 19:16
sort of a southern version of 'Granite'? dangerous like that?


Bustin' up all kinds of firewood and...and....and...stuff like that.

There's a difference between a jerk and a dangerous criminal.

rickb
10-19-2007, 19:36
Next time someone calls you that or asks if you are a jew, look them in the eye and tell them "I'm an American. What are you?" That should work as long as you are in this country.

I can't say that I agree.

If you were out of the country and someone called you an American whatever with a sneer and total lack of respect, should you look them in the eye and tell them "I am a Citizen of the World. What are you?"

Especially if you love your country.

And to my way of thinking an insult to Nationality would be easier to look past than an insult to one's religion or race.

YMMV.

SGT Rock
10-19-2007, 19:37
How about "What is it to you?" before you state what you are.

Appalachian Tater
10-19-2007, 19:52
My usual response to something like that is a very annoyed "Excuse me?" like I am not 100% sure about what I heard but if it was what I think it is I am extremely not okay with it. That gives them a chance to try again without giving them a complete pass.

Pirate
10-19-2007, 20:41
Nobody has mentioned that High Life called Wally a ****** and was going to knock his teeth out if he had any. What about that?

Appalachian Tater
10-19-2007, 20:45
Well, apparently he did call him a jerk before he called him a Jew boy from Boston or what-have-you. There was apparently some jerky behavior, but I probably would have discussed it with the manager instead of calling him a jerk. Wally doesn't have any teeth? High Life called him a ******? Unpleasant business all around. Maybe they should just go have a beer together.

Jester2000
10-19-2007, 23:04
Sly,
I think your post #64 was quite reasonable.
Happy trails!

Warren

Hmmm. Post #64 was actually by Jack. But it did seem reasonable. I'm confused. Maybe they can share, and both bask in approval? That would be nice.

prozac
10-20-2007, 11:10
Why is it acceptable to bash Uncle Johnny's online but not MRO's? If both establishments have complaints about them then both should be discussed on Whiteblaze. Fairs fair. If Lone Wolf is correct this is not an isolated incident. Wally apparently has problems and I applaud their trying to help him but I feel they need to address this matter. Wally's behaviour is inexcusable and MRO has to look into this matter or their good name will suffer.

Appalachian Tater
10-20-2007, 11:43
If Lone Wolf is correct this is not an isolated incident.

L. Wolf's use of hate language on this site is no different from Wally's except that he targets homosexuals instead of Jews. He has no room to complain at all.

prozac
10-20-2007, 12:01
I'm not debating Lone Wolf's behaviour but Wally's. Lone Wolf doesn't work for Jeff. Even if Lone Wolf is homophobic, it doesn't make him a liar. If anything, he is usually brutally honest.

Creek Dancer
10-20-2007, 15:11
Actually someone did mention several pages ago that High Life was dropped off at the trail at 9:00 am that morning and someone posted under his name later in the day. High Life had been using the library computer and accidently forgot to log off.



Nobody has mentioned that High Life called Wally a ****** and was going to knock his teeth out if he had any. What about that?

Frosty
10-20-2007, 16:09
Why is it acceptable to bash Uncle Johnny's online but not MRO's? If both establishments have complaints about them then both should be discussed on Whiteblaze. Fairs fair. Fair is seldom fair. Some people are fine citizens, very helpful to beginning hikers, give their time freely to the trail, and are VERY loyal froends. Unfortunately, they are loyal to a fault, the fault being they cannot tolerate anything negative said about a person/business that they like, or anything positive about a person/business they do not like.

If you combine this fault with a tendency toward hyperbole and being prone to overreacting, and throw in a group that likes to pile on, you end up with certain opinions that, while valid, are better left unsaid. You will always get grief for expressing them.

Ask Jaybird what happens when you have the audacity to mention a negative experience with the Harpers Ferry Outfitter. If he's still here. I think he was excommunicated.

Lone Wolf
10-21-2007, 10:26
I'm not debating Lone Wolf's behaviour but Wally's. Lone Wolf doesn't work for Jeff. Even if Lone Wolf is homophobic, it doesn't make him a liar. If anything, he is usually brutally honest.

i hardly FEAR homosexuals.:D

Appalachian Tater
10-21-2007, 10:37
No, L. Wolf, i'm not "FOS". Cut out the hate speech. Putting little smiley faces in your posts doesn't relieve you of responsibility for your words.

Lone Wolf
10-21-2007, 10:39
No, L. Wolf, i'm not "FOS". Cut out the hate speech. Putting little smiley faces in your posts doesn't relieve you of responsibility for your words.

WHAT hate speech? you're FOS and laughable

CaseyB
10-21-2007, 13:42
OOOOO......THAT ain't gonna be up long!

musicwoman
10-21-2007, 15:43
Am I missing the humor here? :confused:

SGT Rock
10-21-2007, 17:11
Ask Jaybird what happens when you have the audacity to mention a negative experience with the Harpers Ferry Outfitter. If he's still here. I think he was excommunicated.

Not that I know of.

SGT Rock
10-21-2007, 17:28
Damn, a fellow takes his family out for a good time on the trail and comes back to this crap.

OK y'all. Enough.

MRO is aware of the problem. The owner can handle it. It doesn't require you to now bash each other or start dragging homosexuals into this thing. It makes everyone look petty. None of your posting is solving the issue - only making it worse.

High Life
10-22-2007, 08:15
I am back on the Trail and heading south. I would like to thank all the people in Damascus, VA for helping me while I was there. Can't wait until Trail (Toxic) Daze to come back and visit again. Maybe Wally the Hostel Nazi will be employed elsewhere.



I did not make that post .. sorry :(

Gray Blazer
10-22-2007, 08:52
I can't say that I agree.

If you were out of the country and someone called you an American whatever with a sneer and total lack of respect, should you look them in the eye and tell them "I am a Citizen of the World. What are you?"

Especially if you love your country.

And to my way of thinking an insult to Nationality would be easier to look past than an insult to one's religion or race.

YMMV.Apples and oranges.

Wonder
10-22-2007, 12:45
OK, maybe as a new resident of both the hiking community and the town of Damascus, I shouldn't have stayed away from this thread as long as I have.
Part of why I moved to this town, was because I have always felt a welcoming vibe here. Now, I realize that there is someone here who would take offence to my presence. That truly saddens me.
Since I've moved here, I've gone out of my way to give my business to MRO as a way of keeping neutral to everyone. It's up to us hikers to keep the establishments we use alive! MRO was really good to me when I hiked last year. Helped me with gear and gave me a shuttle to Abingdon so that I could go to a bank that did not have a branch in Damascus.
Now, I do not want to see ANY business in this town go under or get a bad name because of one bad apple. This is a small town, and we all kind of need to stick together.

That said, as someone who is neither Christian or Jewish......but an ordained member of my own faith....I will feel uncomfortable, even threatened around this man. Even though the only confrontation, that is consistant, is when I walk down the street he yells to me "Praise the Lord!" and I just offer back an obligatory "AMEN!"
I am proud of my faith, and will always defend it......but will typically only discuss it if it comes up in conversation. I've learned due to past attacks I've received in other places, physical and verbal, to keep my pentacle tucked in my shirt. Those in town who know that I follow the Old Ways have still been accepting of me. Frankly, I find that to be a beautiful feature of my new home! I WILL now avoid the hostel and give 100% of my business to Sundog until this is resolved. I have been a fan of visiting with the hikers over there that come thru......but until Wally is gone....I’ll just stick to Dot's or Baja.
I truly hope, for the sake of this community, Damascus AND hiking, that this man is dismissed.

Lone Wolf
10-22-2007, 12:53
I truly hope, for the sake of this community, Damascus AND hiking, that this man is dismissed.

doesn't look like that's gonna happen. he's still here running shuttles and running the hostel.

Frolicking Dinosaurs
10-22-2007, 13:20
I've heard about Wally's less-than-sterling hospitality from several hikers. HighLife is the only one I've heard mention something as serious as a racial, ethnic or religious slur, but several people have problems with him deciding he doesn't like them for some reason only he knows and basically being rude and obnoxious enough to run them off.

Jeff really needs re-evaluate keeping this guy in the position he is in. If he doesn't want to terminate him, perhaps he could bring him into the store where he would have more supervision. As others note, failing to take action the will adversely affect MRO bottom line as the word spreads. A business has really messed-up when gentle souls like Wonder decide to boycott them.

Wonder
10-22-2007, 13:22
well then....what goes around comes around. You can't run a successful business on faith

Wonder
10-22-2007, 13:28
I"m only a gentle soul until I feel threatened. THough I have never been personally attacked by anyone at anytime from MRO, I feel that if Wally knew of my religious beliefs, he would not hesitate to insult me either. My avoidence of the place is my way of keeping the peace. Im not suggesting that anyone else follow my lead or boycott.....I'm not looking for a crusade. As much as I feel bad, even horrified for what Highlife and the others have been thru....and trust me I do. Upon reading all of this, my choice is strictly a way of protecting myself.

Crazy Larry #1
10-22-2007, 15:42
doesn't matter obviously. he's loyal to MRO no matter what :rolleyes:
I'm loyal to Jeff...........

Crazy Larry #1
10-22-2007, 15:46
Nobody has mentioned that High Life called Wally a ****** and was going to knock his teeth out if he had any. What about that?
did he say that before wally insulted him or after?

Crazy Larry #1
10-22-2007, 15:48
i hardly FEAR homosexuals.:D
that's no lie............:rolleyes:

Creek Dancer
10-22-2007, 15:56
This was cleared up earlier. This was something that someone posted on an earlier page on this thread using High Life's login. High Life was posting from the library and evidently forgot to log off. L. Wolf dropped him off at the trail at 9:00 am and the "******" post came much later in the day. High Life posted no such remark.


did he say that before wally insulted him or after?

SGT Rock
10-22-2007, 16:13
Jeez Wanderer - I was trying to put down that fire - now you have to go and stick your fingers in the koolaid again.

Jack Tarlin
10-22-2007, 18:22
Wonder:

In regards to your comment that one can't run a sucessful business on faith, I'd reply that I'm proud to know people that believe one can't truly run a sucessful one without it. :-?

Lone Wolf
10-22-2007, 18:24
faith in a god don't pay the bills

Wonder
10-22-2007, 18:27
Can't be run on faith alone......

Tin Man
10-22-2007, 18:33
Maybe if you have faith that if you do the right things that the venture will succeed. Just make sure you are always doing the right things.

The Old Fhart
10-22-2007, 18:58
The Only Wanderer-"did he say that before wally insulted him or after?” That particular post seems to be bogus but that doesn’t mean Wally just made that anti-semitic remark without High Life hurling some insults of his own. In High Life's own words, Wally didn't make that anti-semitic remark until after High Life called Wally a jerk. (emphasis mine)

High Life Post #62 "….so i asked him " do you not like thru-hikers or are you always a jerk.. thats when i recived his jew boy response………."

High Life Post #25 "I did make some atempt to talk to Tom and Jeff about this before I was called " a jew boy from boston " in a high tension conversation with wally about the goings on around the hostel while i was staying there. After I was called this name I became quite angry and let my feelings get that best of me a bit……………."
While there is no excuse for making anti-semitic remarks it would appear that the main part of this was the results of a heated back-and-forth between Wally and High Life, and High Life presented his sanitized version here. Who hasn't heard two people in a heated argument say things they shouldn't have? If Wally has problems, maybe he has a slight excuse, but is it still alright for High Life to engage in name calling and not be held accountable like Wally? I suspect there were some other colorful names in this argument and both are guilty of poor judgment.

I had to ask some one who Wally was because I had no idea who they were talking about. It appears it is a guy I thought was a hiker that came back for Trail Days every year and he had a white van with NJ or some out-of –state plates parked next to the hostel. I have seen him around the hostel at Trail Days tuning a banjo, but never playing it, or doing anything else for that matter. In all the times I’ve been there we have never exchanged a single word, pleasant, angry, or otherwise. I don’t doubt that Wally has some problems (as every one has said), but he obviously doesn’t have problems with everyone.

Jack Tarlin
10-22-2007, 19:14
O.F. has raised a very good point and while I'm staying outta this one and making a deliberate effort NOT to take sides here, it should be remembered that in most cases where there's a beef or a problem on the Trail between two hikers; or a hiker and a businessperson; a hiker and a hostel or motel employee, etc., in nearly all of these cases, there's a ""Story A" from one side of the dispute, there's "Story B" from the other, and all too often, the truth can most frequently be found in "Story C", which, by the way, is the story whose details are almost never entirely known by all the folks discussing the matter.

I am NOT saying that Wally was justified for whatever he said, nor am I doubting High Life or Local's version of events. But I think there may well be a "Story C" here which none of us has heard, and probably never WILL hear.

Just my two cents.....

rickb
10-22-2007, 19:27
WHAT hate speech? you're FOS and laughable


Since you asked, how about this little ditty, Wolf?

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=257840&highlight=bull+dyke#post257840

In any event, most people hear words like "Bull Dyke" and "Jew Boy" and and don't feel compelled to say anything.

To my way of thinking, a business owner might have a special responsibility to speak up when they come from an employee. On the other hand, I aslo understand not wanting to get pulled into an on-line drama.

In any event, the owner of MRO isn't alone is simply looking the other way at this sort of thing (with regard to making comments in this forum, anyway).

Lone Wolf
10-22-2007, 19:29
Since you asked, how about this little ditty, Wolf?

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=257840&highlight=bull+dyke#post257840

In any event, most people hear words like "Bull Dyke" and "Jew Boy" and and don't feelcpmpelled to say anything.

To my way of thinking, a business owner might have a special responsibility to speak up when they come from an employee. On the other hand, I aslo understand not wanting to get pulled into an on line drama.

In any event, the owner of MRO isn't allone is simply looking the other way at this sort of thing.

that's a funny joke. not hate speech. a lesbian told it to me. :)

rickb
10-22-2007, 19:41
That explains why you have posted it in multiple threads, then.

Thanks for sharing.

Lone Wolf
10-22-2007, 19:42
That explains why you have posted it in multiple threads, then.

Thanks for sharing.

i have more if you'd like to hear them

warren doyle
10-22-2007, 20:13
Hmmm. Post #64 was actually by Jack. But it did seem reasonable. I'm confused. Maybe they can share, and both bask in approval? That would be nice.

I meant to say post #63.

Dances with Mice
10-22-2007, 20:17
I meant to say post #63.So you find that whole quote function button thing way too complicated?

Skidsteer
10-22-2007, 20:28
Sly,

I think your post #64 was quite reasonable.

Happy trails!

Warren


Hmmm. Post #64 was actually by Jack. But it did seem reasonable. I'm confused. Maybe they can share, and both bask in approval? That would be nice.


I meant to say post #63.


So you find that whole quote function button thing way too complicated?

Dances, you get my nomination for post of the week and generally pithy insight.

rickb
10-22-2007, 20:30
Reference post #203

Isn't it obvious?

Warren is using a pedagogical tool.

By sending us to the primary source, we are becoming active learners.

For more insight on how effective this is, please visit post number 126 in the thrird thread created on February 15, 2005.

Appalachian Tater
10-22-2007, 20:30
So you find that whole quote function button thing way too complicated?

Mr. Doyle doesn't directly answer internegators' questions:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showpost.php?p=426953&postcount=142

but he will Fisk their posts in such a way as to prove them correct:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showpost.php?p=427741&postcount=160

So maybe you should rephrase your question as a declarative statement directed at someone else in order to receive a response.

Sly
10-22-2007, 20:35
I meant to say post #63.

As I remember, you may have been correct the first time. It's possible a post was removed. :-?

Appalachian Tater
10-22-2007, 20:36
As I remember, you may have been correct the first time. It's possible a post was removed. :-?

Shhhhhhhhh. He doesn't know about that.

warren doyle
10-22-2007, 20:40
As I remember, you may have been correct the first time. It's possible a post was removed. :-?

Possibly. I just wanted to give credit where credit was due.

Nightwalker
10-22-2007, 22:40
Possibly. I just wanted to give credit where credit was due.

Just when I was going to seriously ask you why you didn't use the quotes. You old booger. :)

Appalachian Tater
10-22-2007, 23:53
Just when I was going to seriously ask you why you didn't use the quotes. You old booger. :)

Mr. Doyle figured it out in less than five minutes, too! Either that or he knew how to do it all along but he just likes to count. His signature does say "and counting"!

Crazy Larry #1
10-23-2007, 07:05
Wonder:

In regards to your comment that one can't run a sucessful business on faith, I'd reply that I'm proud to know people that believe one can't truly run a sucessful one without it. :-?
I second that opinion...........

Crazy Larry #1
10-23-2007, 07:08
faith in a god don't pay the bills
I disagree with you, but that's okay. An unbelieving person is not able to see the truth........and in most cases, nor do they want to........:cool:

Crazy Larry #1
10-23-2007, 07:08
Can't be run on faith alone......
Faith without action is dead.............

Lone Wolf
10-23-2007, 07:10
I disagree with you, but that's okay. An unbelieving person is not able to see the truth........and in most cases, nor do they want to........:cool:

that's an extremely stupid statement. :rolleyes:

Crazy Larry #1
10-23-2007, 07:12
Maybe if you have faith that if you do the right things that the venture will succeed. Just make sure you are always doing the right things.
As a man of faith, sometimes we don't know which way to go. But the point is I have to put one foot in front of the other and I believe without a doubt that what ever venture I take that those doors that need to be opened to me or that need to be closed to me will happen by the Hand of MY God in whom I choose to believe in.

Lone Wolf
10-23-2007, 07:14
this thread is about a trail business with a bad employee. not a BS bible thumpin smackdown. back on topic.

Crazy Larry #1
10-23-2007, 07:15
That particular post seems to be bogus but that doesn’t mean Wally just made that anti-semitic remark without High Life hurling some insults of his own. In High Life's own words, Wally didn't make that anti-semitic remark until after High Life called Wally a jerk. (emphasis mine)

While there is no excuse for making anti-semitic remarks it would appear that the main part of this was the results of a heated back-and-forth between Wally and High Life, and High Life presented his sanitized version here. Who hasn't heard two people in a heated argument say things they shouldn't have? If Wally has problems, maybe he has a slight excuse, but is it still alright for High Life to engage in name calling and not be held accountable like Wally? I suspect there were some other colorful names in this argument and both are guilty of poor judgment.

I had to ask some one who Wally was because I had no idea who they were talking about. It appears it is a guy I thought was a hiker that came back for Trail Days every year and he had a white van with NJ or some out-of –state plates parked next to the hostel. I have seen him around the hostel at Trail Days tuning a banjo, but never playing it, or doing anything else for that matter. In all the times I’ve been there we have never exchanged a single word, pleasant, angry, or otherwise. I don’t doubt that Wally has some problems (as every one has said), but he obviously doesn’t have problems with everyone.

Let me tell you about one great quality that Wally has, that dude can jam on a guitar! By the way, thankyou for clearing this up a bit for me OF.......

Lone Wolf
10-23-2007, 07:16
Let me tell you about one great quality that Wally has, that dude can jam on a guitar! By the way, thankyou for clearing this up a bit for me OF.......

not as good as High Life can. that's why wally unstrung the guitars

Crazy Larry #1
10-23-2007, 07:19
that's an extremely stupid statement. :rolleyes:
Yeah I know, but you got to remember who it's coming from......:confused:

Crazy Larry #1
10-23-2007, 07:21
this thread is about a trail business with a bad employee. not a BS bible thumpin smackdown. back on topic.
your one to speak, you jumped into the "Bible thumpin smackdown" how many posts ago?

Crazy Larry #1
10-23-2007, 07:22
not as good as High Life can. that's why wally unstrung the guitars
your kidding me?

Lone Wolf
10-23-2007, 07:23
your kidding me?

no. i've heard them both play. high life is much better hands down

Crazy Larry #1
10-23-2007, 07:24
You know, I've been having jam sessions at my house on Tuesday nights for awhile and I have noticed how jealous musicians seem to be and how easily riled they get at each other...........hahahaha, funny........

Crazy Larry #1
10-23-2007, 07:25
no. i've heard them both play. high life is much better hands down
I wish I would have known he played, I would have liked to havce listened to him..........

Lone Wolf
10-23-2007, 07:26
You know, I've been having jam sessions at my house on Tuesday nights for awhile and I have noticed how jealous musicians seem to be and how easily riled they get at each other...........hahahaha, funny........

only if they're half-ass musicians. real talent encourages each other

Crazy Larry #1
10-23-2007, 07:28
only if they're half-ass musicians. real talent encourages each other
i suppose that's true..............

Wonder
10-23-2007, 08:48
***off-topic response*** THe musicans I"ve worked with hold one common trait......they're never good enough. Always the first to pat the other one on the back and ahve debates that go something like "Aw, Man, you rock!.....no,no...YOU rock" Just an observation

SGT Rock
10-23-2007, 08:50
***off-topic response*** THe musicans I"ve worked with hold one common trait......they're never good enough. Always the first to pat the other one on the back and ahve debates that go something like "Aw, Man, you rock!.....no,no...YOU rock" Just an observation
That is how I remember musicians.

Also off topic, and feel free to ignore me (I feel strange even asking) - but what religion are you Wonder? You have had me wondering now ever since you said that.

Wonder
10-23-2007, 09:17
That's alright. I follow a form of earth goddess/god worship that pre-dates Christianity. It’s what Wicca is based on. (hence, why Wicca is refered to as "neo-paganism" Some call it Celtic Paganism, but as the definition of Pagan is "one without god" I simply call it the Old Ways. It is the fath that people followed when they lived off and with the earth.......based on the seasons.

Wonder
10-23-2007, 09:19
and before anyone starts...no its not devil worship...we don't beleive in the "devil" and we don't kill goats to our god or anything like that. We follow the basic creeds "do what ye will and harm none" and The rule of 3....what you do will come back x3......for good or bad

Alligator
10-23-2007, 09:33
and before anyone starts...no its not devil worship...we don't beleive in the "devil" and we don't kill goats to our god or anything like that. We follow the basic creeds "do what ye will and harm none" and The rule of 3....what you do will come back x3......for good or badIt's OK Wonder, it's your business. If you want to roast in Hell I can respect that;) .

Wonder
10-23-2007, 09:35
"Heaven is living in your hopes and Hell is living in your fears" ~Tom RObbins

Johnny Thunder
10-23-2007, 09:36
"Don't you know there 'aint now devil, there's just god when he's drunk." - Tom Waits

Manach
10-23-2007, 09:37
...and since Sgt Rock himself chimed in on this one...

Wander, I hope you don't take offense to what I'm about to say. I'm not trying to bash you, just clear up the facts.

Wicca is the creation of one man, during the late 1940's, and contains elements of pre-Christian Saxon and Celtic religions with a large dose of Christian mysticism via the Golden Dawn. It bears no resemblence whatsoever to any pre-Christian religion, in that the elements it has borrowed have been contorted and changed to fit in a framework unlike any organically evolved religion.

The "harm none" ethic is purely Wiccan.

On cannot really narrow down "THE old ways," because every pre-Christian culture was different in some way, and their respective faiths were equally distinct. Certain common themes may be found, especially among the various Indo-Europeans peoples. However, this does not equate with the popular neo-pagan concept of "the old ways."

The definition of pagan has changed throughout the years. It's Latin root, paganus, meant one who lives in the country, not unlike the word heathen (one who lives on the heath). Neo-pagan implies the revival of some of these pre-Christian practices or beliefs, but is generally understood as such a revival without a sound basis in scholarship and with some amount (usually a lot) of Wiccan influence.

The idea of world-wide, or even continent-wide (Europe, that is) goddess worship has been refuted by almost every archaeologist and anthropologist. See James Frazier, Mircea Eliade, Stuart Piggot, and Barry Cunliffe for examples.

I understand that this was probably way more than most of you wanted to know, but if you got this far in the post then perhaps it was just right. :D

Alligator
10-23-2007, 09:37
Hey I was just kidding you...now what on earth am I covered with...:jump

Frolicking Dinosaurs
10-23-2007, 09:52
Faith without action is dead.............True, but faith with the wrong type of actions isn't just dead, it is dead and rotting. If a man plans to hold himself out as a Christian example, then he must be willing to follow the Leader. Can you imagine Christ calling someone a Jew Boy, unstringing a guitar, waking people up to harass them, or being rude and obnoxious to travelers? Running up and down the streets of Damascus shouting 'Praise the Lord' may look like Christianity, but it isn't. Read the handbook (New Testament) for details.

For those having trouble understanding Wonder's faith, the basic creed is very similar to the Christian golden rule (Do unto other as you would have them do unto you). One major difference between Wicca and Judeo-Christian beliefs is that Wicca teaches that living in harmony with the earth and other creatures is a sort of prime directive while the Judeo-Christian belief system holds that man was created in the image and likeness of God, has a soul that never dies and has stewardship over the animals and earth. For those interested in more information about Wicca, try this link (http://www.religioustolerance.org/wicrede.htm).

Appalachian Tater
10-23-2007, 09:56
Can you imagine Christ calling someone a Jew Boy,

He WAS Jewish. It would be like you calling someone Dino.

Wonder
10-23-2007, 09:57
I was going with basic, easily recognized terms for people who are unfamiliar.......I'd be more then happy to dig out my ancient religion papers and go into the history in another thread, as I am familiar with some if not most of what you wrote....but not all I realize that "the old ways" is a very broad term.....and discussion of the variances, traditions, beliefs and history can go on for days. Hence, while I follow many Celtic traditions....I’m a solitary. Though, I have to agree, that the "Harm none" creed is primarily Wiccan......I still feel and have studied its roots in history. One cannot deny the warrior women. I was simply trying to answer the question in as brief and simple way as possible. After all, this thread is not about my faith or anyone elses for that matter. Simply an overtone. I was mearly answering a question about my OWN faith.
PS...I"d be intrested if you could PM me reffrence to the text refuting goddess worship in europe. I've read some, but mainly in scandnavian culture, which even in pre-christian years was patriarchal, sea fareing cultures primeraly……….now, back to the topic at hand. Religious beliefs are not something I believe should be debated….they are personal and recognized differently by each individual. I apologize for not answering in a PM

musicwoman
10-23-2007, 10:12
In response to Manach, I think saying that the idea of ancient goddess worship being refuted is abit off the mark.

Many believe that Goddess religion is the root of all other religions, since cave paintings and etchings from the Paleolithic Era seem to support the notion that Goddess worship/veneration began at that time in human history. At 30,000 years old, these markings, such as those found at Lascaux, France, are clearly evidence of a form of female oriented worship/celebration much older than all modern day religions, and philosophies such as Buddhism, most of which are less than two to three thousand years old.

Some authors, the most notable of whom is Marija Gambutas, believe goddess worship started in prehistoric times.

Also, the Jewish faith recognizes "Shekhinah".

Theres also much evidence that many of the books of the bible that contained passages citing Goddess worship, the absence of hell, and many other "pagan" beliefs were purged from the bible within the first 400 years AD. Read Bart Ehrmann. His research on the books of the bible and how the bible came to be is absolutely fascinating.

SGT Rock
10-23-2007, 10:15
God bless those pagans ;)

I hope I didn't start a can of worms there.

Wonder
10-23-2007, 10:17
The Book "THe Goddess, The Grial, and The Lodge Tracing the origins of religion" by Alan Butler is a very intresting timeline of faith

Wonder
10-23-2007, 10:17
Nah, I love ya Rock!

Wonder
10-23-2007, 10:18
but what on here DOSEN'T open a can of worms......

rafe
10-23-2007, 10:26
Speaking of ancient "pagan" religions and wilderness ethics, here's a beautiful speech (http://www.wilderness.net/toolboxes/documents/awareness/Ed%20Zahniser%20talk%20on%20wilderness.doc) by Ed Zahniser. Ed is the son of Howard Zahniser, who, along with Benton MacKaye and Aldo Leopold (et. al.) was one of the founders of the Wilderness Society.

It's a .DOC file, you'll need MS Word to open it. If anyone wants it converted to PDF, I can convert it and post it on my own website.

SGT Rock
10-23-2007, 10:27
Nothing.

Love ya back. If you decide to take some time off work next year and hike - look me up. I promise I will not want to talk religion.

And I think my wife trusts me around good looking pagan chick.

Manach
10-23-2007, 11:09
God bless those pagans ;)

Now that's funny...;)


I hope I didn't start a can of worms there.

Hope I didn't come across as being the worms... :-?

Cookerhiker
10-23-2007, 11:18
.....Theres also much evidence that many of the books of the bible that contained passages citing Goddess worship, the absence of hell, and many other "pagan" beliefs were purged from the bible within the first 400 years AD. Read Bart Ehrmann. His research on the books of the bible and how the bible came to be is absolutely fascinating.

I have some DVDs by Professor Ehrmann from The Teaching Company (http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/coursedesclong2.aspx?cid=6593&pc=Religion) and you're right - they're fascinating. The Bible did not just drop down from the sky. The books were written by humans and the compilation into the Canon was done by humans.

Flush2wice
10-23-2007, 11:26
Maybe we need a religion thread kind of like the politics thread.

Lone Wolf
10-23-2007, 11:27
Maybe we need a religion thread kind of like the politics thread.

that would be stupider than the politics forum