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DavidNH
10-04-2005, 09:44
I am just wondering (and I ask this innocently so please don't get on my case about it) why do we now have hiking forum(s) for women only? Are they so intimidated by males that they need to be alone to speak freely? I would never have thought so.

I don't see any men only forums or forums for only those of a certain ethnic group etc. Perhaps that should be considered. Why is any one group more deserving of special access than any other.

I always thought this was a wide open place for all view points on all hiking related subjects. And in my year plus of browsing and posting on white blaze I have yet to see any posts where people seek to degrade or make others uncomfortable (the moderators see to that I am sure). So why the need for exclusivity?

DavidNH.

Lone Wolf
10-04-2005, 10:08
A special forum is needed for gays, jews, cripples, Africans, etc. also.

shades of blue
10-04-2005, 10:12
There may be issues that apply only to women, that a woman wouldn't feel comfortable discussing in a mixed forum. If it is needed, it will be used, if not.....it will not be used and taken off. My .02

Footslogger
10-04-2005, 10:26
I haven't met too many hikers (if any) that felt uncomfortable discussing topics in a mixed audience. Personally, I would prefer having access to all topics here at Whiteblaze. If someone makes an off-color comment to a gender specific post it's about them ...and not about the discussion. Just ignore it.

'Slogger

tlbj6142
10-04-2005, 10:47
A special forum is needed for gays, jews, cripples, Africans, etc. also.I really think a Lone Wolf Quote of the Day forum would be a great idea. Troll/Rock, make it happen.

icemanat95
10-04-2005, 10:52
I don't have a problem with a gender specific forum for women dealing with women's issues, but then I'm on old-fashioned dinosaur who thinks that there really are differences between men and women that need to be respected and that women should not be required to discuss issues that may be personal or embarrassing under the hope that some neanderthal won't start heckling them or otherwise cause troubles.

Newb
10-04-2005, 11:00
I really think a Lone Wolf Quote of the Day forum would be a great idea. Troll/Rock, make it happen.
As a gay, jewish, cripple from Africa I'm offended by that remark.

The Old Fhart
10-04-2005, 11:13
This is an interesting question that I'm sure a lot of people (gender neutral word) aren't too sure of. I guess you could justify having exclusive forums if you can also show that there are no male OB-GYNs, otherwise the arguement that all males can't understand, or will be crude, is not valid. I mean, some of my best friends are women. ;)

Footslogger
10-04-2005, 11:31
I mean, some of my best friends are women. ;)====================================
Same here, the main one being my wife (BadAssTurtle). She hasn't rung in yet on this thread but I'd bet she'd be in favor of open posting on all threads. B'sides that she's a Texan and we now live in Wyoming - wide open spaces and not fond of being fenced in.

If it happens (and maybe it already has) fine ....but I truly don't see the need for it. I'm well aware of the issues but don't think that the solution is separation of threads here at WB.

'Slogger

attroll
10-04-2005, 11:50
I haven't met too many hikers (if any) that felt uncomfortable discussing topics in a mixed audience. Personally, I would prefer having access to all topics here at Whiteblaze. If someone makes an off-color comment to a gender specific post it's about them ...and not about the discussion. Just ignore it.

'Slogger
You a right there are a lot of women hikers that are not afraid to speak there mind. I think that comes with the experience of hiking and talking openly with other hikers. But there are a lot of women hikers that are preparing to thru hike that have do not have that open mindedness yet. This is for those that want to ask question that they would not normally ask in front of men. Like how to deal with that time of month an other things. I know some are talking about it now in the forums. But there are some that want to chime in and are afraid or feel uncomfortable to do so.

Footslogger
10-04-2005, 12:08
You a right there are a lot of women hikers that are not afraid to speak there mind. I think that comes with the experience of hiking and talking openly with other hikers. But there are a lot of women hikers that are preparing to thru hike that have do not have that open mindedness yet. This is for those that want to ask question that they would not normally ask in front of men. Like how to deal with that time of month an other things. I know some are talking about it now in the forums. But there are some that want to chime in and are afraid or feel uncomfortable to do so.=============================
I hear ya Troll and I understand the issue. Just not sure that separating it off is the right way to go about it. First off ...how do you control access ?? Is it a result of selecting Male/Female when you register on Whiteblaze ?? That's not very good security.

Guess I don't feel all that strongly one way or another but in my opinion a better solution would be to title the thread(s) "Womens Issues" and leave it at that. Men hikers may not (or should not) have anything to add but reading the posts might give us some interesting insights. The Admins still have the ability to yank a post (from a man or woman) that is off-topic or off-color and offensive.

Just my .02

'Slogger

Spirit Walker
10-04-2005, 12:26
There are about five subjects on women's forums that end up getting discussed over and over, as newbies come in and ask the same few questions. I don't really see the point of having a separate forum, but sometimes new hikers feel more comfortable asking those questions in a 'women only' forum, even knowing that guys can (and do) read the threads. On Backpacker.com there have been guys asking questions on behalf of their wives/girlfriends, or asking "How do I get her interested in backpacking?" They could ask the same questions and get the same answers on the open forums - but usually there is less thread drift on a more limited forum. For women who are new to whiteblaze, it makes it easier to search for answers to those same few questions if they are all grouped in one place, instead of buried under dozens of general questions.

Marta
10-04-2005, 12:28
The main reason women might want to have an exclusive forum is that we get terribly, terribly tired of slogging through the insanely argumentative posts made (mostly) by men. As a member of the women's Yahoo! group, I will say that there's a lot less carping at each other and a lot more "Congratulations on the new grandbaby" and "I hope you feel better soon" going on over there.

Does Whiteblaze need this? Instead of a "women only" forum, maybe a "play nice" forum? Somehow I can't see the sweet tone lasting for long...

CynJ
10-04-2005, 12:43
I don't know if the Women's forum needs to be a locked forum - a lot of the guys that hike w/females might gain some insight. But having a forum section for just Women's particular issues I do think is a good thing. And by having a female moderator to keep an eye on troublemakers and to keep the forum on track will also be a good thing.

just my 2 pennies.....as a female ;)

MOWGLI
10-04-2005, 12:43
Marta, as someone who has sometimes contributed to the arguments, I agree and apologize. I think the Women's Only forum is a great idea, and hope that the other men on the board would respect the idea, and stay out of that forum.

tlbj6142
10-04-2005, 13:20
I will say that there's a lot less carping at each other and a lot more "Congratulations on the new grandbaby" and "I hope you feel better soon" going on over there.And that's a good thing? Frankly I've never understood this "aspect" of being a women. Some of their socialization skills just don't make sense. What exactly does telling someone "Congratulations on the new grandbady" do for someone? It always comes across a bit shallow (or maybe hollow would be a better word) to me.

Smile
10-04-2005, 13:24
Definately a great idea - thanks ATTROLL!

Marta
10-04-2005, 13:30
Mowgli, no apologies are necessary. One of the many wonderful things about the Whiteblaze--I don't have to read anything on it I don't want to. (I don't have to read it at all, for that matter.) I was not complaining...though on second reading, I realize that I was complaining...

My intent in making the post was not to complain but to explain. I think that the reason for women wanting to exclude men from a discussion is not so much the embarrassment factor as the attitude factor. I was just lucky that I happened to check in on the thread when the very phenomenon I was trying to explain was clearly exemplified.

I have not checked the Articles section lately. Is there one dealing with questions women new to backpacking might be interested in: safety, feminine hygiene...? If not, that might be the way to go.

Speaking of going, I have definitely overstayed my lunchbreak and need to get back to work.

Seeker
10-04-2005, 13:30
in general, i'm ok with a women's forum/topic...

hey guys-ever walk into a room full of women talking, and immediately feel like you weren't supposed to be there? they all stop talking at once, and look at you like you're not wearing clothes... i once had 16 female employees, and it happened quite often when i'd walk into the breakroom... there are just times they need to be left alone to talk among themselves... after the second time, i quit asking why... had i been truly wise, once would have been enough... yes, everyone here is 'nice' for the most part, but i can understand a newbie being very afraid to ask questions... you really have no idea what some women have put up with from fathers, boyfriends, and husbands throughout their lives, and some are really gunshy... it may take a female mentor to guide them along... so i have no problem with a special forum... be nice to read their posts, from a "father of daughters" standpoint, but if i can't, that's ok too... i can just ask some female poster how to handle the onset of my daughter's period while i'm on a weeklong trip with her... or whatever else comes up...

Footslogger
10-04-2005, 13:34
... be nice to read their posts, from a "father of daughters" standpoint, but if i can't, that's ok too... i can just ask some female poster how to handle the onset of my daughter's period while i'm on a weeklong trip with her... or whatever else comes up...===================================
That's kinda where I'm coming from. Guys may not have anything to offer but could certainly benefit from reading the posts ...if they so desire.

'Slogger

Frosty
10-04-2005, 13:35
And that's a good thing? Frankly I've never understood this "aspect" of being a women. Some of their socialization skills just don't make sense. What exactly does telling someone "Congratulations on the new grandbady" do for someone? It always comes across a bit shallow (or maybe hollow would be a better word) to me.So I guess this is why some women would prefer a women only forum. Too many men who "don't undertand that aspect of being a women" yet juidge it shallow.

If we don't understand it, and can't relate to it, why would we want ot participate in it? To make them think and act "right"?

Let the ones who want a separate forum have it. The ones that don't can still participate in general forums.

And the ones that prefer general forums still have hundreds of posts of a day to read and comment on. It won't hurt us if people say things we can't hear.

Rainman
10-04-2005, 14:50
What about a forum that allows women only to post but allows men to read and learn? ATTroll is that possible? :-?

I've had a devil of a time getting my wife to go on a long hike with me. Day hikes is all she'll do. I once attempted to explain to her the concept of not peeing in a trail privy. Her immediate question was "how do I pee in the woods? I'm not a man."

I had no answer. I still have no answer. I'm not embarrassed to ask "how does a woman pee in the woods? Is there a woman out there who is not embarrassed to answer? My wife would not vist a whiteBlaze Forum, or any other resource, to get an answer. She'll just use it as a reason to not try a long distance hike. OK, I'm done.

tlbj6142
10-04-2005, 15:44
I had no answer. I still have no answer. I'm not embarrassed to ask "how does a woman pee in the woods?Go buy the book "How to $hit in the woods". It is short book written by a woman and has more than one chapter on "women issues".

Hammock Hanger
10-04-2005, 15:49
What about a forum that allows women only to post but allows men to read and learn? ATTroll is that possible? :-?

I've had a devil of a time getting my wife to go on a long hike with me. Day hikes is all she'll do. I once attempted to explain to her the concept of not peeing in a trail privy. Her immediate question was "how do I pee in the woods? I'm not a man."

I had no answer. I still have no answer. I'm not embarrassed to ask "how does a woman pee in the woods? Is there a woman out there who is not embarrassed to answer? My wife would not vist a whiteBlaze Forum, or any other resource, to get an answer. She'll just use it as a reason to not try a long distance hike. OK, I'm done.
You step off the trail a bit, pull down you pants and undies (if you wear them) squat and do what comes naturally. Wipe with paper or a broad shiney green leaf or a dab rag or shake. Stand re-adjust your clothing and move on. Now if you are smart enough to wear a skirt w/o the undies you just stand with your legs a foot or too apart, bend the knees alittle and go or put one foot up on a rock and go. It really isn't that hard. No need to get embrassed we all do it. I do it all the time. :) Sue

Footslogger
10-04-2005, 16:00
You tell em HammockHanger !!

'Slogger

dixicritter
10-04-2005, 16:03
Was this special forum requested? And I suppose more importantly, would the female members of Whiteblaze really use a forum of this nature?

jlb2012
10-04-2005, 16:32
also how on earth could a moderator determine whether a newbie is male or female?

Footslogger
10-04-2005, 16:37
also how on earth could a moderator determine whether a newbie is male or female?================================
...and what if you didn't specify a gender when you registered. Would "neuters" be able to view and post on all threads ??

'Slogger

max patch
10-04-2005, 16:50
also how on earth could a moderator determine whether a newbie is male or female?

At least for a while, on an earlier version of Trailplace a female had to call the Administrator to get access. Not being a female, I have no idea what verification procedures were used once that call was made.

Footslogger
10-04-2005, 17:04
At least for a while, on an earlier version of Trailplace a female had to call the Administrator to get access. Not being a female, I have no idea what verification procedures were used once that call was made.=============================
Guess were all just going to have to line up for physicals ...

'Slogger

Roland
10-04-2005, 17:14
=============================
Guess were all just going to have to line up for physicals ...

'Slogger
*cough, cough*

frieden
10-04-2005, 17:21
What is the point of a restricted women's forum, if guys can read it? Sure, they wouldn't be able to comment on that forum, but they could comment anywhere else. Haven't you ever pushed someone to reveal an issue that you didn't think was a big deal, and then when you found out the reason, you'd wished you never asked? Too late; the damage is done, and nothing good came from it. It's not a women specific thing, but women seem to be more willing to talk about things. I personally have mixed feelings about a women's only forum (think it's a good idea, but is a disaster waiting to happen if not handled properly), but I would hate to have someone be ill-prepared on the trail, because they weren't comfortable to speak openly. People are nice on this board, but let's face it, any seemingly innocent comment can (and has) been seriously attacked. ... like a joke, for example. I've already put out more information than I feel comfortable with on an open forum, because people were obviously going to hound me until they knew. "Why" wasn't required for the situation, but it is just human nature, I guess. It is an element of respect. I figure if someone wants to tell me the "why", or their "story", they will. I agree that there should be a separate forum, but after reading the backlash to the idea, I don't think it should be here. Seriously, why did the guys go nuts? Will it hurt them? Are they scared what women will write, if they aren't watching? I thought it was HYOH. If it doesn't hurt you, leave 'em alone!

sierraDoug
10-04-2005, 18:07
I tried to say this at the new forum but wasn't allowed to post there. So I guess it's a woman only forum already. Anyway, if they keep the pink background it'll keep me from looking at it. Yuck! :eek:

sierraDoug
10-04-2005, 18:18
BTW, I say let women have their own forum if they want. And it should not be readable by men for the reason mentioned above... guys could just go to another forum to start a commentary thread.

TJ aka Teej
10-04-2005, 18:37
There is a very active women's hiker e-list, similar in form to the at-l. I wish the new WB forum the same success the original women's list has enjoyed.

Hammock Hanger
10-04-2005, 18:40
Was this special forum requested? And I suppose more importantly, would the female members of Whiteblaze really use a forum of this nature?
There already is a WOMEN"S ONLY Hiking forum. It is done by referral from a woman already on the list. Believe me guys you are not missing anything by not being let in. The only reason it exisit is that some women are still more comfortable asking certain questions in an "all female forum". IE: I don;t think you guys need to know how to handle your menses on the trail. If you have a lady friend who does have questions, refer her to a female hiker you know... come on you must know at least one! ;) Sue T

Hammock Hanger
10-04-2005, 18:42
also how on earth could a moderator determine whether a newbie is male or female?
I think it would be difficult on this forum of mixed members. On our Yahoo site a woman can only get in if she is referred by a woman on the list.

Hammock Hanger
10-04-2005, 18:47
You tell em HammockHanger !!

'Slogger:p When ya gotta go, ya gotta go.

On the flip side if ya come around a corner or are heading up a hill and you see a moon shining in your face and it's not up in the sky. Be polite and kind of step back and turn around for a minute. Sometimes the trail twist and turns and you think you have step off in the woods only to find a person coming in the opposite direction has come right up behind you. :eek: Sue

Hammock Hanger
10-04-2005, 18:48
At least for a while, on an earlier version of Trailplace a female had to call the Administrator to get access. Not being a female, I have no idea what verification procedures were used once that call was made.
The Yahoo women's list is the spin off of the Trailplace List when it closed.

Hammock Hanger
10-04-2005, 18:50
=============================
Guess were all just going to have to line up for physicals ...

'Slogger
Cough!!! What's that?? Okay you're in. :D

Patrick
10-04-2005, 19:11
The main reason women might want to have an exclusive forum is that we get terribly, terribly tired of slogging through the insanely argumentative posts made (mostly) by men. As a member of the women's Yahoo! group, I will say that there's a lot less carping at each other and a lot more "Congratulations on the new grandbaby" and "I hope you feel better soon" going on over there.

Does Whiteblaze need this? Instead of a "women only" forum, maybe a "play nice" forum? Somehow I can't see the sweet tone lasting for long...
What the hell?

SGT Rock
10-04-2005, 19:51
The main reason women might want to have an exclusive forum is that we get terribly, terribly tired of slogging through the insanely argumentative posts made (mostly) by men. As a member of the women's Yahoo! group, I will say that there's a lot less carping at each other and a lot more "Congratulations on the new grandbaby" and "I hope you feel better soon" going on over there.

Does Whiteblaze need this? Instead of a "women only" forum, maybe a "play nice" forum? Somehow I can't see the sweet tone lasting for long...
That would never work :p

Marta
10-04-2005, 20:25
in general, i'm ok with a women's forum/topic...

hey guys-ever walk into a room full of women talking, and immediately feel like you weren't supposed to be there? they all stop talking at once, and look at you like you're not wearing clothes... i once had 16 female employees, and it happened quite often when i'd walk into the breakroom...

This is funny to me, Seeker. I'm the only female employee at a construction company. When a bunch of the boys (and I use the word consciously--about half the guys are the ages of my children) are horsing around at the end of the day, do you think the atmosphere changes when I walk in? You betcha! They suddenly stop cutting things up with the paper cutter in the fax room, or stop giving each other rides around the warehouse on the forklift...

Or how do they look if they've been talking unguardedly (i.e., profanely and/or obscenely) and suddenly realize I could hear them? Ouch!

But to get to the point of this thread...I think the offer of creating a women-only forum is quite thoughtful but it's not necessary to have one. At least not for me.

spunky
10-04-2005, 21:06
I agree that it's thoughtful, but I don't see ever using it myself. If it's for women issues, why not just post it in Health & Hygiene???




This is funny to me, Seeker. I'm the only female employee at a construction company. When a bunch of the boys (and I use the word consciously--about half the guys are the ages of my children) are horsing around at the end of the day, do you think the atmosphere changes when I walk in? You betcha! They suddenly stop cutting things up with the paper cutter in the fax room, or stop giving each other rides around the warehouse on the forklift...

Or how do they look if they've been talking unguardedly (i.e., profanely and/or obscenely) and suddenly realize I could hear them? Ouch!

But to get to the point of this thread...I think the offer of creating a women-only forum is quite thoughtful but it's not necessary to have one. At least not for me.

smokymtnsteve
10-04-2005, 21:47
A special forum is needed for gays, jews, cripples, Africans, etc. also.

and of course a special forum for BLUE BLAZERS..no purist allowed

Ridge
10-04-2005, 22:40
I'm a female and know nothing about the women-only forums. How do I join them?

LEGS
10-04-2005, 23:52
Hey Ridge, scroll back to HH's thread on this, its on page 2,!! Shes leadin the way girl, so get on board with HH and enjoy your stay. She's a good'un to learn ya. Happy Trails to ya!

Da Legs

Nightwalker
10-05-2005, 00:08
Seriously, why did the guys go nuts? Will it hurt them? Are they scared what women will write, if they aren't watching? I thought it was HYOH. If it doesn't hurt you, leave 'em alone!
"The Guys" didn't go nuts. "Some Guys" went nuts. "Some Guys" are insecure and paranoid and have to know every $*&#ing thing or they think they'll miss something.

Like I said earlier, there's a by-invitation women's forum on Yahoo, and there's a good reason for woman only forum, as has been well shown here.

Sometimes it's really easy to get pissed off...

stupe
10-05-2005, 00:13
There's enough women hikers on this site, and enough differences in theirs and mens issues to warrant a separate forum, I think.

One Leg
10-05-2005, 00:38
A special forum is needed for gays, jews, cripples, Africans, etc. also.

That's actually quite comical, but not too far offbase. With the society in which we find ourselves living in today, everyone's so self-conscious about what they say or do out of fear of becoming politically incorrect.

Here at WB, we can find just about every ethnicity, religion, disability, nationality, and gender amongst our ranks. We have smokers, tokers, alcoholics, social drinkers, non-drinkers, purists, non-purists, Wal-Mart lovers, Wal-Mart haters, dog lovers, dog haters, Christians, Atheists, Agnostics, Wiccan, homosexuals, bisexuals, heterosexuals, yadda, yadda, yadda.

The point is that we're here out of our love for hiking, and in particular, for the Appalachian Trail. How one lives their personal life, who they sleep with, who they love, who they hate, how they choose to hike (white, blue, yellow, red, gray, or black blazing), what they choose to carry, or whether or not they choose to take the canoe or ford the river has no bearing in the big picture.

We're here to learn, sure, but we're also here to share experiences, forge friendships, and have fun in the process.

Obviously, with some 6,500+ members, we're going to have some who are arguementative, socially retarded, and downright redundant. But we also have some true gems in our midst who possess a wealth of knowledge, have some awesome stories to share, and can offer a lot of insight.

I don't see the need to form cliques where certain people, genders, ethnicities, political/sexual/religious persuasions, disabilities, etc. are or aren't welcome. Where would one draw the proverbial line in the sand?

Offending someone or taking offense to something said is going to be inevitable. Presumably and in theory, we're all adults here, and are mature enough to recognize B.S. when we spot it. On the flip side, we can also recognize wisdom when it's given, and can all benefit from it.

That's just my $.02 worth here..

Thank all of you for being part of the trail community, and for making my time here at WB more enjoyable.

-Scott

P.S. I'm just glad they call the A.T. a "FOOTpath for those who seek fellowship with the wilderness". If it were "FEETpath", I'd be S.O.L.

dixicritter
10-05-2005, 09:30
There already is a WOMEN"S ONLY Hiking forum. It is done by referral from a woman already on the list. Believe me guys you are not missing anything by not being let in. The only reason it exisit is that some women are still more comfortable asking certain questions in an "all female forum". IE: I don;t think you guys need to know how to handle your menses on the trail. If you have a lady friend who does have questions, refer her to a female hiker you know... come on you must know at least one! ;) Sue T


I meant here at Whiteblaze HH. :) Was curious why it was started? Even though I've already volunteered to Admin that area if the ladies here want such a forum. I may not have "first hand" hiking knowledge but I do live with a great resourse.... ;) Besides ya can't live with "him" and not have some of that knowledge rub off on ya. LOL.

justusryans
10-05-2005, 11:57
I don't feel threatened by the ladies having their own forum, Go Ladies!! :D

attroll
10-05-2005, 12:13
Was curious why it was started?A couple of women show interest in it and I though I would get other women's opinions on this and see if they would like to see one here. If not then it can be removed just as easy at it went up.

dixicritter
10-05-2005, 13:19
A couple of women show interest in it and I though I would get other women's opinions on this and see if they would like to see one here. If not then it can be removed just as easy at it went up.

I figured that was the case.

Now about that pink background.... :p

Smile
10-05-2005, 13:31
Great idea ATTroll, there are just some things that women like to discuss amongst themselves ;)

Footslogger
10-05-2005, 13:32
I figured that was the case.

Now about that pink background.... :p===================================
...and maybe blue for the mens only threads too ??

'Slogger

generoll
10-05-2005, 13:35
I really don't care whether women have their own forum, but I do see the perpetual double standard here. Everyone is equal except some people are more equal then others. If we are going to have closed forums, then why limit it just to women? Dig deep enough and sooner or later we all are some kind of minority. I'm left handed, guess that makes me a minority. I am also male, and according to most census figures that also puts me in the minority.

I think having closed forums at the very least gives the appearance of inequity. We don't have women only shelters on the AT do we? I guess I'm just a radical, but it seems to me that in order to achieve true equality women should be agitating for the end to gender specific sports. Why have womens basketball or golf or baseball or wrestling or swimming? Why not just trhough everyone in the same pot and treat everyone equally? But then I am wandering a bit from the thread.

Let me just be brief and say I think closed forums are out of place in a public discussion group.

attroll
10-05-2005, 13:46
I figured that was the case.

Now about that pink background.... :p
The background does not have to be pink. I choose that so that when you were in that forum you knew it was not the main forums on WhiteBlaze. We can make it any color we want. I picked pink for now because pink is a color that is know for a womens color. No women don't jump down my throat here on this.

There is not double standard here. We are not creating a forum so women can talk about us men behind out backs or have there own private talks without us. I know some of you guys are just afraid you will miss out on something. But that is not the reason for this forum if we continue with it. The intention is for women to talk about there worry's about hiking the trail alone, their hyiene, dealing with the periods, and things of that sort. Things that normal men may not be interested in. Some women don't feal free talkin about some of those things in an open forum with men.

As how the forum would be run is still up in the air. These are the question that have not been ironed out yet.

Should everyone be able top read it and only women post to it?
Should only women have read and psot to it?
Should everone have access to it and be able to post?

titanium_hiker
10-05-2005, 13:57
guys have the incredible nack of being flippant- like boston said, his "keep your legs closed" quip was probably out of place I think the thread had a serious overtone, but the guys (some guys) ruined it and shut them up. I think a woman's only forum would be good- if guys can't post flippant remarks, but still can glean info, that would be good. as to "comentary threads" I guess we'll just have to trust that the 13yearoldboy attitude won't win out.

guys are so lucky- no periods, etc to worry about- they don't understand, and probably never will- that's why there is some opposition to the new forum.

thanks AT troll.
titanium

Rain Man
10-05-2005, 14:01
Man oh man. The idea of a women-only forum surely got a lot of boys' panties in a wad!!!
:dance
Rain:sunMan

.

generoll
10-05-2005, 14:03
hmm, i'm opposed to segregated forums because i don't understand menstruation? now there's a logical approach. it's so because someone says it's so. just like having a womans only forum doesn't demonstrate a double standard becasue some says it doesn't. don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up.

gotta love political correctness. makes Through the Looking Glass seem tame by comparison.

Hammock Hanger
10-05-2005, 14:06
Gene: I am neither for or against a woman's forum. I have lived on the trail and no longer find it embarrassing to speak of any topic in front of men, as is evident since I shared my weight. However, women are a different species from men, whether we like to admit it or not. You know the whole Venus -Mars thing. Where men do not find it embarrassing to discuss farts, piss; cleaning their privates... some women still feel it is unlady like to be so open. The special forum is just to help those few who are not yet ready to dive in the mud and be as dirty as the guys. As a guy I'm not sure you can understand what I am very poorly trying to get across, as men and women DO NOT think alike. It is not like a place where the women can go to bash the guys. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Using your example for instance, you are not embarrassed to admit to the world that you are left handed, but what if you were a woman who had a very heavy flow during your period and you were unsure if it would be a good idea to hike at that time. You wanted to hear what other women have done, but didn't necessarily want ALL the men on the forum to know such personal stuff... Like I said I could share anything but some just feel awkward.<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Every time this topic comes up men bash it. If you had a men's only forum what exactly would be some of the topics you guys would discuss that would be embarrassing for you to have the women know?? Other then SIZE I can't think of too many questions that men fear sharing.<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>


BTW, Gene ya know I like ya, this is just a discussion. :)

TN_Hiker
10-05-2005, 14:12
I usually stay out of these heated debates, but gotta add my two cents on this one. Evidently, attroll has seen enough requests for females only forum that he felt justified in creating it. I'm sure if he gets enough requests for the left handed hikers, the southern jews, the Democrats, the Republicians, the whatever.....he will feel the same justification and create a forum for them. Does this run against the grain for a public, open discussions? Perhaps it does. Regardless, attroll is the moderator. If you agree with the way he runs the show -- great. If you disagree, then nothing is stopping you from leaving WB. If attroll feels we need a women's only forum...then so be it. The fact remains if you participate in WB then you need to respect his decisions. Personally, I have gained a great deal from WB and attroll's past performance gives me no reason to try and second guess his decisions. Keep up the awesome work attroll! NO, I'm not kissing a##, but giving credit where credit is earned. And for the record ......I'm 100% hetrosexual male.

titanium_hiker
10-05-2005, 14:16
last paragraph HH- HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA very funny.

i'm not for segregation everywhere- I frequent a linux forum- and frankly there is no need for a women's only forum there. However, hiking is more about us as people (not a computer, car, whatever) and so is more personal to discuss. women feel the need for security and privacy sometimes.

this thread- particularly the flames, are a great example of WHY there should be a women's only forum.

you know guys have the same hormonal rushes as women do? they just don't get the obvious sign of it. That's why guys get a little moody sometimes. :banana

titanium

Footslogger
10-05-2005, 14:18
[QUOTE=Hammock Hanger]I am neither for or against a woman's forum.
<O:p</O:p

Right there with ya HH. Guess I'm jaded being married to a hiker who (like you) is trail tested and not shy when it comes to talking openly about issues (mens or womens). I've learned to go with the "flow" ...so to speak.

'Slogger

TN_Hiker
10-05-2005, 14:20
$%&$# forgot to mention Sgt. Rock as moderator as well (sorry Sarge). Any and all moderators (male or female) deserve the same amount of respect. Like the saying goes.....their sandbox, their rules......

titanium_hiker
10-05-2005, 14:29
$%&$# forgot to mention Sgt. Rock as moderator as well (sorry Sarge). Any and all moderators (male or female) deserve the same amount of respect. Like the saying goes.....their sandbox, their rules......
I agree totaly TN- their sandbox- if you don't like it then you can always go somewhere else.

titanium_hiker
10-05-2005, 14:35
also- guys WILL want to read it. and like GM said in the female forum- excluding the guys from reading will make them try even harder to read them...

so I think just stopping obnoxious comments would be the way to go. not that I'm against guys- just it seems to be the trend of obnoxious guys more than girls

titanium

generoll
10-05-2005, 17:59
Hiya Sue and good to hear from you. Yes I know this is a discussion and I'm not offended. I just have a philosophical issue with gender related issues in public forums. I don't think I was offensive when I expressed that, but then you know how insensitive we men can be ;). For the record I find equally inane mens retreats or similar endeavors. I do have a small ( and steadily shrinking) circle of friends that I can chat with should I feel the need to unburden myself. Or better yet I can pour out my woes to Arthur. He's not the greatest conversationalist, but he is a good listener. If I make a particularly telling point he'll thump his tail vigorously, otherwise he just sorta yawns and goes back to sleep.

Anyway, always good to hear from a hiker that I have great admiration for. Hope to see you at the moot, if and when it actually takes place.

One Leg
10-05-2005, 18:06
.......the old television show "In Living Color". In one of the sketches, some guys were wondering why women always went to the bathroom in groups of 2 or more. So, they decide to go in drag, enter the restroom, and find out for themselves what it was all about.

Inside the restroom was a virtual "gentleman's club" for females. Manicures, pedicures, massages, the works.....

Wonder if the women's only forum at WB will be like that? Any male volunteers to go in drag to find out?

TJ aka Teej
10-05-2005, 18:14
Why not just refer any interested WhiteBlaze females to the pre-existing woman's list? The new members will no doubt benefit from 'meeting' the web-trailblazers and hearing from people who've already discussed their issues and concerns for years.

Hammock Hanger
10-05-2005, 19:24
...Or better yet I can pour out my woes to Arthur. He's not the greatest conversationalist, but he is a good listener. If I make a particularly telling point he'll thump his tail vigorously, otherwise he just sorta yawns and goes back to sleep...

Anyway, always good to hear from a hiker that I have great admiration for. Hope to see you at the moot, if and when it actually takes place.
Ya friends like Arthur are worth their weight in gold.

Yeah, Rock and I have been trying to find out if the moot is a go or not. I have it on my calendar.

Hammock Hanger
10-05-2005, 19:28
Why not just refer any interested WhiteBlaze females to the pre-existing woman's list? The new members will no doubt benefit from 'meeting' the web-trailblazers and hearing from people who've already discussed their issues and concerns for years.
I think that this is a great idea, since the forum already exist. However, we do not refer just anyone we meet on the internet... You need to be referred by some one who actually knows that the person they are referring is a female. Not my rules but the rules set in place when I was referred. It is actually the only way to keep it female only. Sue

DavidNH
10-05-2005, 20:01
wow! had no idea the women's only or exlclusive thread would generate so much debate.

Personally, A thread focusing on women's issues (and especially with that pink back ground) Is not going to generate much interest in me.. women's issues by definition are of interest mainly to women.

What bothers me a little bit is the idea of one group of people being excluded from posting or reading in a forum. yes one can always say..if you don't like it leave white blaze..but I think that is a counterproductive argument.. sort of like love america or leave it. One can love it and want to stay yet hope to improve it or at least have a voice in what happens with it.

When hiking on the AT and else where...there is no segregation and it should be the same here. Honestly folks..when discussion turns to things like periods and mensuration.. what guy is going to want to stick around for that? I think one could have a forum for women specific issues (and easily identified as such) open to all..and the content it self will filter most men out.

Thanks to all who have posted and shared. I have given my two cents. I think pesonally we should be done with this and let moderators make their decision.

davidnh

Hammock Hanger
10-05-2005, 20:09
wow! had no idea the women's only or exlclusive thread would generate so much debate.



Just giving the Warren Doyle post some competion.:o

CynJ
10-05-2005, 20:11
I think having a forum area dedicated to women is great - as would I if someone expressed interest in a forum area for people with disabilities, or with strict religious practices. But I think they should be open for all and moderated with a fair hand so that threads/forum stays on track.

Rain Man
10-05-2005, 23:38
When hiking on the AT and else where...there is no segregation and it should be the same here. ...

Oh?! You follow the ladies to the privies, do you? I don't accept your premise and I think there is definitely segregation on the AT and it's perfectly appropriate.

Just how I look at it. YMMV.

Rain:sunMan

.

smokymtnsteve
10-05-2005, 23:49
while I don't follow the ladies to the privy.. (I actually don''t use privies much as I prefer catholes) but I know of no shelters that have separate male and female privies...all that I know of are open to both sexes...
that being said I support having a female only forum...there are more wierdos on the internet than there are out hiking..well maybe


interesting that here in AK most public restrooms are unisex,

attroll
10-05-2005, 23:59
$%&$# forgot to mention Sgt. Rock as moderator as well (sorry Sarge). Any and all moderators (male or female) deserve the same amount of respect. Like the saying goes.....their sandbox, their rules......
Lets get this right. This is not our sandbox (SGT Rock's or mine). It is everyones. That is why we are discussing this now. It is not written is stone yet.

hikerjohnd
10-06-2005, 00:37
If women, or any group, wants a forum to voice their own opinions and questions, then by all means, they should have that avenue. Should WB provide that service? As attroll points out, this site is for everyone, therefore the needs of the whole have to be considered and met before the interests of the few can be considered. So, troll - are there things that the community needs before it needs exclusive forums? Personally, I believe WB meets the needs of its members and supporters nicely, an exclusive forum does not seem like a difficult or time/resource consuming project. If a group is seeking a private place to discuss issues, a publicly supported website is not that venue. WB prides itself on the free and open exchange of ideas and information, and an exclusive forum (reading and posting limited to one group) does not seem to coincide with that ideal. Anyone should be able to read the questions and answers posted in the forum, even if only one group is allowed to post there.

Lone Wolf
10-06-2005, 04:59
I'm a lesbian. I want a forum.

MOWGLI
10-06-2005, 06:33
Blah blah blah. Let the ladies have their own forum! It makes perfect sense to me, and for the life of me, I don't understand why any guy would oppose that.

Heck, we need a woman President too! I don't know why guys would object to that either.

Hammock Hanger for President in 2008! She should run with a lesbian as her VP, so I nominate Lone Wolf. What a ticket, eh?

Heater
10-06-2005, 07:38
A special forum is needed for gays, jews, cripples, Africans, etc. also.
And midgets. People are always passing on and leaving out the midgets.
Don't forget about the midgets.

justusryans
10-06-2005, 07:52
Blah blah blah. Let the ladies have their own forum! It makes perfect sense to me, and for the life of me, I don't understand why any guy would oppose that.

Heck, we need a woman President too! I don't know why guys would object to that either.

Hammock Hanger for President in 2008! She should run with a lesbian as her VP, so I nominate Lone Wolf. What a ticket, eh?
I'd vote for em!:D

jlb2012
10-06-2005, 07:53
... but I know of no shelters that have separate male and female privies...all that I know of are open to both sexes...


Pass Mountain Hut in SNP has two privies - one labeled Men and the other labeled Women

ain't that right Skyline?

Hammock Hanger
10-06-2005, 08:00
.... Hammock Hanger for President in 2008! She should run with a lesbian as her VP, so I nominate Lone Wolf. What a ticket, eh?

:eek: Would I have to bring the Secret Service with me on my hikes, and to the prvy???

SGT Rock
10-06-2005, 08:10
If HH is president, I want to be the Sec Def!

MOWGLI
10-06-2005, 08:54
HH:

I wanna know who is going to head the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms under your leadershup :D We got some good candidates on this site.

OK Sarge, but under HH, I understand that all Secretarys will have to wear a dress.

Lone Wolf
10-06-2005, 09:02
I nominate Jack Tarlin to lead the ATF.

SGT Rock
10-06-2005, 09:19
HH:

I wanna know who is going to head the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms under your leadershup :D We got some good candidates on this site.

OK Sarge, but under HH, I understand that all Secretarys will have to wear a dress.
It's a kilt dammit.

Footslogger
10-06-2005, 09:33
[QUOTE=MOWGLI16]Hammock Hanger for President in 2008!
========================================

...AND HAMMOCKS ON EVERY TREE IN THE ROSE GARDEN !!

'Slogger

titanium_hiker
10-06-2005, 09:52
how about this: a women's topic forum- like DavidNH said, the content will filter most guys out. Anyone can post. If there is someone who is heckling the women, they get removed from the "can post" list (which includes everyone) after a couple of warnings. And yeah- there are a bunch of wierdos on the internet...

titanium

Hammock Hanger
10-06-2005, 09:54
HH:

I wanna know who is going to head the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms under your leadershup :D We got some good candidates on this site.
Let's see LW is VP and Sarge is Secretary... Maybe BJ would be good for the ATF? :-?


OK Sarge, but under HH, I understand that all Secretarys will have to wear a dress.
Dixie what do you think, can ya loan him a dress or two? I prefer mini skirts on my men. :D

Alligator
10-06-2005, 10:02
...
Dixie what do you think, can ya loan him a dress or two? I prefer mini skirts on my men. :D
What about commando?

dixicritter
10-06-2005, 10:55
Dixie what do you think, can ya loan him a dress or two? I prefer mini skirts on my men. :D

He swears it's a kilt, I still say it's a skirt. ;)

Might could hook him up with a dress or two, but with those bird legs.... :eek:

Footslogger
10-06-2005, 10:58
He swears it's a kilt, I still say it's a skirt. ;)

Might could hook him up with a dress or two, but with those bird legs.... :eek:================================
Hey Dix ...I have a nice Mountain Hardware Kilt left over from my thru in 2003. It's shrunk, or is it that I gained weight ?? ...whatever, let me know if you need one for Rock.

'Slogger

MOWGLI
10-06-2005, 11:16
He swears it's a kilt, I still say it's a skirt. ;)



Thanks Dixie. Now we know who wears the pants in your family. he he ;)

gumby
10-06-2005, 11:19
My 2 cents worth. I am a hetro male that is the only male in the household so I am kind of up on womens issues. Being married 3 times also helps. I am also a Medical Assistant and you wouldn't believe what women will say to you in a Doctor's office. They won't talk to their husbands, but they tell me when I'm getting their history for the Doc. That said...I understand why women would prefer a separate forum to ask question of other women.
Come on guys admit it, if you let out a real smelly fart you claim it with pride. Most women don't and it is not their fault, society has deemed that women are delicate and not rude as we are. (not sure if rude is the appropriate word, but what the hell) An example, "horses sweat, men perspire, and women glow".
So what if we have a separate forum? This is really not an issue that needs to have the United Nations pass a resolution on.

Ok on to other stuff.

peter_pan for commerce since he is already in sales and manufacturing
at troll for telecommunications
Rock with two hats, Sec Def and Energy (stoves)

Later

SGT Rock
10-06-2005, 15:32
peter_pan for commerce since he is already in sales and manufacturing
at troll for telecommunications
Rock with two hats, Sec Def and Energy (stoves)

Later
Let HOI do the Energy thing, he is a great stove builder with less PR than me. I just want to run the military for a few years.

smokymtnsteve
10-06-2005, 15:42
If HH is president, I want to be the Sec Def!

and I want to be head of the FDA..

Make MEDICAL MJ LEGAL!

Hammock Hanger
10-06-2005, 16:03
I would love to spend a night in a shelter with a few of you, it would be a hoot for sure. And of course I would blush at every fart, claim that I purr not snore and that the stench is not from my glow.

LW I think you explained the difference between men and women perfectly.

Hammock Hanger
10-06-2005, 16:14
Hammock Hanger for President in 2008!
Mowgli, I nominate you as my Press Secretary:bse

jlb2012
10-06-2005, 16:46
Let HOI do the Energy thing, he is a great stove builder with less PR than me. I just want to run the military for a few years.

:eek: Oh no you don't - ain't no way I want anything to do with this political crud - why it would be like :datz ;)

we need to get StoveStomper over here and let him be a front man for Energy

smokymtnsteve
10-06-2005, 16:46
PLEASE STAND FOR THE GOSPEL OF ABBEY!

"It is the difference between men and women, not the sameness, that creates the tension and the delight"

THANKS BE TO ABBEY!

saimyoji
10-06-2005, 17:20
Why not make the ladies only forum one that you have to suscribe to. That would filter out a lot of people who don't know how to.

Nightwalker
10-06-2005, 18:19
I think having a forum area dedicated to women is great - as would I if someone expressed interest in a forum area for people with disabilities, or with strict religious practices. But I think they should be open for all and moderated with a fair hand so that threads/forum stays on track.
I think that may be a good idea. A moderated forum, at least until a poster shows that they aren't troll-ish.

There are a coupla folks here that I could imagine cutting a pretty ugly swath through a forum of any sensitive type, not just a women's forum. :datz

Nightwalker
10-06-2005, 18:22
That being said I support having a female only forum...there are more wierdos on the internet than there are out hiking..well maybe.
Well put sand in my drawers...

Steve, I give up on predicting you, you ding-a-ling.

Nightwalker
10-06-2005, 18:23
I'm a lesbian. I want a forum.
You pretty much make the whole place yours already...

smokymtnsteve
10-07-2005, 01:10
Well put sand in my drawers...

Steve, I give up on predicting you, you ding-a-ling.

PLEASE STAND FOR THE GOSPEL OF ABBEY!

"According to the current doctrines of mysticoscientism, we human animals are really and actually nothing but "organic patterns of nodular energy composed of collocations of infinitesimal points oscillating on the multi-dimensional coordinates of the space-time continuum". I'll have to think about that. Sometime. Meantime, I'm going to gnaw on this sparerib, drink my Blatz beer, and contemplate the a posteriori coordinates of that young blonde over yonder, the one in the tennis skirt, tying her shoelaces."

THANKS BE TO ABBEY!

Hammock Hanger
10-07-2005, 07:52
PLEASE STAND FOR THE GOSPEL OF ABBEY!

"According to the current doctrines of mysticoscientism, we human animals are really and actually nothing but "organic patterns of nodular energy composed of collocations of infinitesimal points oscillating on the multi-dimensional coordinates of the space-time continuum".!Now that sounds like something at the bottom of my compost pile...:eek:


I'll have to think about that. Sometime. Meantime, I'm going to gnaw on this sparerib, drink my Blatz beer, and contemplate the a posteriori coordinates of that young blonde over yonder, the one in the tennis skirt, tying her shoelaces."

THANKS BE TO ABBEY!With that comment you sound like something at the bottom of my cpmpost pile.;)

smokymtnsteve
10-07-2005, 13:55
why thank you Sue... ;)

smokymtnsteve
10-07-2005, 14:14
Dixie what do you think, can ya loan him a dress or two? I prefer mini skirts on my men. :D

like to comtemplate thier coordinates??? :p

Sly
10-07-2005, 14:18
I'll take Interior and Agriculture and a few thousand trail workers.

TAMBOURINE
10-08-2005, 14:23
I feel like we are all human and all have diffrent things go on with our bodies and all should be open mined adults.

Toolshed
10-08-2005, 23:31
As a gay, jewish, cripple from Africa I'm offended by that remark.
Hmm You didn't call it out, but hell, as long as we are being specificn, arre you a black african or a white african???? :eek:

Toolshed
10-08-2005, 23:35
....As a member of the women's Yahoo! group, I will say that there's a lot less carping at each other and a lot more "Congratulations on the new grandbaby" and "I hope you feel better soon" going on over there....

It sounds like a lot of the same inane chatter that I hear out of groups of woman at times that usuallu has no informational basis, but just a lot of "chitchat" which I usually find useless.

saimyoji
10-09-2005, 10:59
"but just a lot of "chitchat" which I usually find useless."

Like many of the threads started by men here at WB.

DavidNH
10-09-2005, 19:15
"but just a lot of "chitchat" which I usually find useless."

Like many of the threads started by men here at WB.

I started this thread with an innocent and in my view perfectly acceptable question to the group. Don't blame me for what the thread has become or may become because I am a man and started the thread. personally, I think the thread should have been finished at 20 or so respones..not go on and on like it has..but thats just me. My own view for what it is worth is that all forums should be open to all and that those orientated to one particular group (ie women) will filter out most of the others simply by interests.

There is plenty of very useful information and also lots of idle chitchat that is offered by both genders, all age groups and all ethnic groups. It is not the men at white blaze or the women at white blaze. It is individuals that make the threads good or not good interesting or not interesting.

My only interest and purpose here on white blaze is to learn all I can so that my upcoming thru hike and hiking experiences will be successful and enjoyable as possible. Therefore, I ask a lot of questions..perhaps smart perhaps no so smart but there is the adage that the only dumb question is the one not asked right?


At this point...Whiteblaze.net is the number one most helpful site on the net for information regarding the Appalachian Trail and hiking in general. I truly believe this. Let's please keep it this way and fun as well.

Perhaps the moderators could set up one particular forum where those interested could really let loose and launch the zingers. No holds barred. And then keep tight reigns on the other forums. Actually, more I think about it..this sounds like a really really good idea. What do you think moderators/administrators??

DavidNH.

Lone Wolf
10-09-2005, 19:18
There ain't nothin broke so nothin needs fixin.

saimyoji
10-09-2005, 20:01
Nope, nothin broke. I didn't mean any attack when I stated that many threads were useless chitchat. You can read and find for yourself the many threads of chitchat. While doing so you'll find a wealth of invaluable (means extremely valuable) information about hiking and such. This is the reason I hang around here. Thanks to all of you who make this a place I enjoy coming to. :sun

SGT Rock
10-09-2005, 20:35
You will find that if you read the chit-chat there is more to learn about here than a straight question and answer format. You also get to learn folks attitudes about things because opinions are like, well I am sure you have heard that before. But that sort of axiom translates to hiking as well, so you can learn by reading some of the chit-chat who has attitudes and techniques similar to what you ascribe to. Also, you will see if you stay around here for some time that many of us meet each other on the trail and know each other. So some of that chit-chat and jabs at each other is in good fun even though it may not seem like it sometimes.

Footslogger
10-09-2005, 21:30
You will find that if you read the chit-chat there is more to learn about here than a straight question and answer format. You also get to learn folks attitudes about things because opinions are like, well I am sure you have heard that before. But that sort of axiom translates to hiking as well, so you can learn by reading some of the chit-chat who has attitudes and techniques similar to what you ascribe to. Also, you will see if you stay around here for some time that many of us meet each other on the trail and know each other. So some of that chit-chat and jabs at each other is in good fun even though it may not seem like it sometimes.================================
Couldn'ta said it better myownself !!

'Slogger

dixicritter
10-09-2005, 21:53
================================
Couldn'ta said it better myownself !!

'Slogger


You butt kisser.... ;)


SOOOOOO could not resist....LOL

Toolshed
10-10-2005, 07:27
....Hmmmm... There's inane chitchat, and then there's REAL chitchat like the stuff here at WB!!!!! :welcome

SGT Rock
10-10-2005, 10:08
I think that is why this forum can be adicting to people.

One Leg
10-10-2005, 12:44
You will find that if you read the chit-chat there is more to learn about here than a straight question and answer format. You also get to learn folks attitudes about things because opinions are like, well I am sure you have heard that before. But that sort of axiom translates to hiking as well, so you can learn by reading some of the chit-chat who has attitudes and techniques similar to what you ascribe to. Also, you will see if you stay around here for some time that many of us meet each other on the trail and know each other. So some of that chit-chat and jabs at each other is in good fun even though it may not seem like it sometimes.

Chit-Chat is much better than *****-Chat......