Creepy situation at Max Patch...

[Nutbrown]

Last week, four of us,all girls, hiked from Max Patch to Hot Springs. We then drove back to Max Patch to retrieve the second car. Well, my old beater didn't make it up the gravel road to the parking area. As I was pulling to the side, a pick-up started to pass. We asked if they wouldn't mind giving my friends a lift to the top of the mtn, about 4 miles. The two older men seemed excited to help, so my three friends hopped in the back of the truck as I limped my beater back to the bottom of the mtn.

As soon as the pick-up was around the corner, my friends told me the men pulled the truck over and both got out and approached the back. They then asked my friends if they 'could tell a tale', saying that they were going to show them off to their friends. After a time, in which my friends became incredibly uncomfortable, they drove on. The driver stopped again when they got to their wagon train friends, many more men, then they did take my friends to the parking area. From what the men told my friends, this is a group that travels from place to place via horse drawn wagons. ...besides scaring the crap out of my friends, nothing happened.

***I do think that the men in the pick-up did not mean any physical harm, but I can't imagine they were ignorant as to how scary they came across. If anyone knows this group as friendly and wonderful, I don't mean to give them a bad rap. I am just reporting on how my friends felt that their safety was in jeopardy.

I guess my friends could have jumped out of the back and ran away, but they were in flip flops and without any gear.

Just wanted to put the word out about the situation. I am a very trusting person, especially with the hiking community, maybe to a fault. This made me re-assess how willing I am to put myself, or my friends, into an odd situation.

[fiddlehead]

I am guessing they had a smartphone.
I would think it a good idea if they would have filmed the whole thing, or as much as possible.
Sounds like it turned out OK anyway.

[Cookerhiker]

...but I can't imagine they were ignorant as to how scary they came across. If anyone knows this group as friendly and wonderful, I don't mean to give them a bad rap. I am just reporting on how my friends felt that their safety was in jeopardy....

Your friends' discomfort was entirely understandable and rational. Those guys were clueless and insensitive.

[vamelungeon]

I guess I have an entirely different take on this. I think these "older men" meant no harm, and wanted the girls to tell some incredible story to their friends, and really just wanted to give the girls a ride. I do know people who do this "wagon train" thing as a hobby. I have a question- Were the men "creepy" because they weren't young and attractive? I've often found that "creepiness" depends on the attractiveness and age of the "creeps" in the eyes of young women. I don't see where anyone is accused of doing or saying anything threatening. I'm a middle aged man and don't want to go around scaring young women.

[Teacher & Snacktime]

I'm a middle aged man and don't want to go around scaring young women.

Not intentionally, but we can't always control how our thoughts/actions will be perceived.

I believe the OP clearly stated that she didn't believe the gentlemen meant any harm, and it was the oddity of the situation without understanding that caused the sense of vulnerability and discomfort. Personally, I don't think the age of the guys is pertinent beyond description of the circumstance...that sense of being outnumbered by strangers in an uncertain circumstance would probably still exist (at least for me).

Sometimes a simple phrase, unconsciously spoken, can make one uncomfortable.

[Old_Man]

Not intentionally, but we can't always control how our thoughts/actions will be perceived.

Nor should we...

[Old_Man]

I have a question- Were the men "creepy" because they weren't young and attractive? I've often found that "creepiness" depends on the attractiveness and age of the "creeps" in the eyes of young women.

I mean, I can see where their actions could be seen as creepy. But they asked permission before they drove the girls to their camp, no? What would have really been creepy is if they'd not asked permission first. If OPs friends were uncomfortable when the truck stopped, why didn't they just get out and walk back to their friend?

[bangorme]

I NEVER pick up women for just this reason. I remember there was a case in Vermont where a guy picked up a female hitchhiker. When he dropped her off she stated that unless paid her, she was going say that he raped her. In the 60's, I picked up female hitchhikers all the time. Would I do it today? Not on you life.

[HooKooDooKu]

...Were the men "creepy" because they weren't young and attractive? I've often found that "creepiness" depends on the attractiveness and age of the "creeps" in the eyes of young women...
From my point of view, the creepiness in this story comes from someone agreeing to give you a lift, then make an unscheduled stop and request that you "perform". It doesn't mater if the driver was young or old, male or female.

[rocketsocks]

From my point of view, the creepiness in this story comes from someone agreeing to give you a lift, then make an unscheduled stop and request that you "perform". It doesn't mater if the driver was young or old, male or female.
That would set my creep meter to red line...Thanks for the lift...see ya27733

[Nutbrown]

Indeed, the creepiness stemmed from the truck pulling around the corner, just out of site, stopping, and the men getting out to ask my friends if they could tell a lie about what was happening.
First meeting, they were granfatherly and I had no qualms asking for help. ...I do believe that they really only wanted to play a joke on their fellows, acting like they scored three beautiful women. But the way they went about getting that idea across was very threatening.
Hind site showed them to be innocent yet horrible jokers, but in the moment, they were percieved as being terrifying. My friends outnumbered the men in the truck, thats why the three of them went. When the truck pulled into the wagon train area, then they were outnumbered and extremely nervous.

They did not get out of the truck for a few reasons... the flip flops they were wearing, being out on a gravel road walking when the men could easily follow in the truck, and probably the real answer being that they were freaked but still not sure they were in real danger. I hope that makes sense.

[Nutbrown]

And there was no permission asked to stop at the camp. It was on the way up to the top.

[Nutbrown]

Fiddlehead, they did have a phone, and took pictures of them in the truck and the license plate. No service to send it out, but they did do that.

[Sailing_Faith]

I am guessing they had a smartphone.
I would think it a good idea if they would have filmed the whole thing, or as much as possible.
Sounds like it turned out OK anyway.

I know you are referring to recording it.. But I can say there is nothing for signal in much of those parts.

was lucky to get a ride there myself, my plan had been to call for a ride.. Not a good plan!

[quasarr]

I have a question- Were the men "creepy" because they weren't young and attractive? I've often found that "creepiness" depends on the attractiveness and age of the "creeps" in the eyes of young women. I don't see where anyone is accused of doing or saying anything threatening. I'm a middle aged man and don't want to go around scaring young women.

Yes. Attractiveness, whether based on looks or anything else, is exactly the dividing line between creepy or not. If a man pursues a woman who is not attracted to him, then his advances are not welcome and he is being creepy. It is all about consent. Women don't owe their time and attention to men. And men are not entitled to the attention of women.

So to avoid situations like the one mentioned in the OP, just remember that if women don't want to have a conversation or something, it is ok and they should be left alone.

[quasarr]

Just to clarify, in the OP was the men might have thought they were perfectly friendly. But the problem is that they treated the women not like fellow humans who just wanted a ride, but instead like a prize to be shown off to their friends. Men often do not understand how bad that feels. They didn't even consider that the women might not want to impress their friends or spend time with them. It is just plain disregard for others.

[bangorme]

Yes. Attractiveness, whether based on looks or anything else, is exactly the dividing line between creepy or not. If a man pursues a woman who is not attracted to him, then his advances are not welcome and he is being creepy. It is all about consent. Women don't owe their time and attention to men. And men are not entitled to the attention of women.

So to avoid situations like the one mentioned in the OP, just remember that if women don't want to have a conversation or something, it is ok and they should be left alone.

Actually, to avoid situations like the one mentioned, don't hitchhike or accept rides from men you don't feel comfortable conversing with. If you want to be left alone, be self-sufficient and walk. It doesn't appear like these men asked anything outlandish from the gal(s), even though it is nothing I'd ever ask from someone I didn't know.

When I was in high school and college I hitchhiked all the time. Most of the time the person that picked me up did so for the conversation. I was grateful for the ride and was happy to talk. If I'd sat there like a sullen prune I wouldn't have blamed them a bit for letting me find another ride.

[ams212001]

Actually, to avoid situations like the one mentioned, don't hitchhike or accept rides from men you don't feel comfortable conversing with. If you want to be left alone, be self-sufficient and walk. It doesn't appear like these men asked anything outlandish from the gal(s), even though it is nothing I'd ever ask from someone I didn't know.

When I was in high school and college I hitchhiked all the time. Most of the time the person that picked me up did so for the conversation. I was grateful for the ride and was happy to talk. If I'd sat there like a sullen prune I wouldn't have blamed them a bit for letting me find another ride.


I don't think the issue was not wanting to be social. The issue was how the men went about requesting an introduction to friends. That was not part of the original plan. They probably would have gladly talked to the guys at the end of trip but the side trip is very off putting. Also, making the request out of line of sight of the friend is a red alert. Thankfully, everything ended well but I would have been on edge with the request as well.

It doesn't have to be an outlandish request in order to be scary.

[Skyline]

I can see how it might be seen as creepy. And I can see how it might just be the no-harm-intended way of mountain folk.

[rocketsocks]

Just to clarify, in the OP was the men might have thought they were perfectly friendly. But the problem is that they treated the women not like fellow humans who just wanted a ride, but instead like a prize to be shown off to their friends. Men often do not understand how bad that feels. They didn't even consider that the women might not want to impress their friends or spend time with them. It is just plain disregard for others.
Bingo!

That's not weird, that's not weird at all :rolleyes: the whole story reeks of creep.

[Gambit McCrae]

Lots of posts here, I believe that it is quite important that if you are willing to give someone a ride, especially in a secluded area and to a bunch of girls, it is quite important to make them feel as safe as possible. Even if that means nots saying anything but have a nice day.

[Uneasy]

You should not have put yourselves in this situation in the first place. Too much risk.

[Ground Control]

You should not have put yourselves in this situation in the first place. Too much risk.

This.

And I can understand why it seemed creepy, but you might change your perspective, put down your guard, and take it as a compliment. Some fellows obtained a truckload of women and wanted to have a laugh over it.

Lighten up.

[Sarcasm the elf]

This.

Some fellows obtained a truckload of women and wanted to have a laugh over it.



That quote is one if the most genuinely creepy things I've ever seen written on this site.

[Vibes Man]

I agree that it doesn't matter how young, old, attractive, unattractive, one male or several males. Men need to know their boundaries. Unfortunately, too many don't. This situation turned out okay, thank God. But, a true predator relies on his victim(s) to underestimate a potentially dangerous situation and back down from using assertiveness by immediately getting out of the pickup and seeking some form of help. Predators rely on the innocence and naivete of their victims. Whenever the voice in the back of your mind tells you something is wrong, that voice is usually correct. You should listen to that voice. Never ever ignore that voice. Sometimes, that voice comes in the form of goosebumps, elevated heartbeat, sweaty palms, hair standing up on the back of your neck, etc. Regardless, it's always best to be safe than sorry. Imagine if the intent of these men were to wreak havoc with your four lives. The only things keeping you safe is your ability to never underestimate their intentions, not to perceive them as "good", "tombstone courage", and not heeding the danger signs. This situation should be on every female (and males, for that matter) mind, each and every day whether you're going to the grocery store or five miles from the nearest shelter.

[rocketsocks]

I agree that it doesn't matter how young, old, attractive, unattractive, one male or several males. Men need to know their boundaries. Unfortunately, too many don't. This situation turned out okay, thank God. But, a true predator relies on his victim(s) to underestimate a potentially dangerous situation and back down from using assertiveness by immediately getting out of the pickup and seeking some form of help. Predators rely on the innocence and naivete of their victims. Whenever the voice in the back of your mind tells you something is wrong, that voice is usually correct. You should listen to that voice. Never ever ignore that voice. Sometimes, that voice comes in the form of goosebumps, elevated heartbeat, sweaty palms, hair standing up on the back of your neck, etc. Regardless, it's always best to be safe than sorry. Imagine if the intent of these men were to wreak havoc with your four lives. The only things keeping you safe is your ability to never underestimate their intentions, not to perceive them as "good", "tombstone courage", and not heeding the danger signs. This situation should be on every female (and males, for that matter) mind, each and every day whether you're going to the grocery store or five miles from the nearest shelter.
Yup, that's creepy guy 101. Any normal fella with any kinda social ques would know what they did was not only not cool, creepy, scary, and down right just plane stupidly inconsiderate (I'm giving the fellas the benefit of the doubt)...it's just unkuth. If it was My/Your daughters, I'd be down right lookin' for somebody to straighten it out.

[HooKooDooKu]

Some fellows obtained a truckload of women and wanted to have a laugh over it.
Lighten up.
If that were the case, then the fellows should have asked about taking pictures BEFORE letting the girls in the truck... not after hauling them part of the way along a secluded road leaving themselves no convenient way out of the situation.

[Ground Control]

That quote is one if the most genuinely creepy things I've ever seen written on this site.

Yikes; certainly didn't mean in that way. :(

In the part of my post that you omitted, I acknowledged understanding of why it seemed creepy to the OP. Just trying to add some perspective, and jump into the mind of the truck drivers and point out that it was likely a harmless situation. Bad judgement on the part of the men in the truck? Yes. Insensitive to the concerns of a group of female hikers? Absolutely.

But on a scale of 1-10 for creepiness, I give this situation about a 3.

"...If you can learn a simple trick, Scout, you'll get along better with all kinds of folks. You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view - until you climb into his skin and walk around in it." -Atticus Finch

[Teacher & Snacktime]

That quote is one if the most genuinely creepy things I've ever seen written on this site.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I was trying so hard to avoid pointing out the horrific attitude behind this and thus bringing an abrupt halt to yet another thread. I so appreciate that there's someone else out there who recognizes how "wrong" the acceptance of this is. "Lighten up" my patootie....let's evolve and grow instead.

And thank you, GC, for not meaning this the way it appeared. I completely agree with you about trying to see another's perspective (nice Mockingbird quotation by the way), but in the moment, when one feels even slightly vulnerable, it's tough to subvert one's basic fear instinct to empathize with the "offending" party.

[Ground Control]

And thank you, GC, for not meaning this the way it appeared. I completely agree with you about trying to see another's perspective (nice Mockingbird quotation by the way), but in the moment, when one feels even slightly vulnerable, it's tough to subvert one's basic fear instinct to empathize with the "offending" party.

Thanks for that, anyway.

I am truly regretful that I have offended.

I teach high school English at an inner city school. Part of my daily routine means recognizing the perspective from those with limited social understanding, and giving other humans the benefit of the doubt; trying my best to see the good in people and not assume the worst.

Not that it matters, but prior to that I worked at a juvenile prison (technically Law Enforcement) and before that I worked in community mental health with people that had severe mental disorders. I point this out to say that I know creepy, and I am no stranger to dangerous situations.

The "truckload of women" comment was only intended to point out the viewpoint of the truckers, who clearly had limited social awareness. I don't condone their actions.

I am with you 100% on the "evolve and grow" suggestion, T&S, but my years spent educating America's youth gives me the realistic notion that this also means accepting the limited social awareness that plagues the masses.

Hopefully this helps create understanding as to my true intent and message.

Over and out~

[Teacher & Snacktime]

Hopefully this helps create understanding as to my true intent and message.

And I in turn apologize for my knee-jerk reaction. Like everyone else, I'm subject to reading intent behind words that may or may not exist. It's something I try to avoid (the idea of "count to ten"), but obviously I failed here. (Time to turn off my over-worked misogyny detector)

Thanks for clarifying.

[Jake2c]

Well, if my daughter asked me the same thing I would tell her to get out of the truck and run if necessary. Who the heck cares about gear and flip-flops if in worrying about those things you end up in a bad situation. If something makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up then act on it. As sort of stated above, men also don't owe their time or attention to anyone. If you ask for help and accept someones assistance you get what they intend or can give. If you don't like it then stop and walk away. You can hope they are decent people and most probably are but, hope is not a proactive plan.

[ELW]

You should not have put yourselves in this situation in the first place. Too much risk.

I disagree. Hitchhiking in general terms is not something I'd recommend. However, within the context of the trail, it is accepted and commonplace. I'd say the OP's friends handled the situation well, and got to where they needed to go safely (though they might have been clearer that NO they wouldn't participate in whatever "joke" the older men were planning). Heck, iIf the older men had any brains, it might have dawned on them that they were putting themselves into a somewhat risky situation by picking up the hitchhikers.

Other than that I tend to agree with the consensus here: what the older men did was creepy and unacceptable, yet also more a reflection of their age and lack of culture and not a nefarious plot. Basically, one more adventure on the trail.

[greenmtnboy]

When someone presents a situation as a huge problem, I try to turn it around to get another perspective.

Let's say some boys or young men were hitch hiking, and a group of older ladies picked them up and did the same thing; wouldn't they have a right to be upset or "creeped out"? Absolutely. In this day and age everything that "vulnerable", quick to get nervous or scared young women experience can be felt by the opposite sex. Any hiker potentially is packing heat, or armed with various weapons and may be skilled in the martial arts. People hitch-hiking are asking for a favor and as such make themselves vulnerable for good or bad. Personally I have never had a bad experience but once picking up a hitchhiker and that was in Quebec when the guy stank to high heaven.

[Nutbrown]

This situation would have been equally creepy had it been the other sex. I just wanted to share the experience. I have always thought of hitchhiking near the trail as an accepted and safe form of travel. This situation unfortunately has changed my mind.

[atmilkman]

Very inappropriate. Evidentially "dem boys" don't get to town much. Reminds me of the Andy Griffith episode where the Darling boys go to town lookin' fer wives.

[gregpphoto]

As someone who hitchhikes more than hikes, I dont see what was so scary. They got out and talked to you while you were in the back?? Ohhh noo, so scary. Maybe I'm just dumb and dont understand what "tell a tale" means, other than they told you a story.

[gregpphoto]

If that were the case, then the fellows should have asked about taking pictures BEFORE letting the girls in the truck... not after hauling them part of the way along a secluded road leaving themselves no convenient way out of the situation.

If they were just out of sight, then they had a perfectly convenient way out, especially being in the bed of the truck!

[atmilkman]

As someone who hitchhikes more than hikes, I dont see what was so scary. They got out and talked to you while you were in the back?? Ohhh noo, so scary. Maybe I'm just dumb and dont understand what "tell a tale" means, other than they told you a story.
The way I understand it, they were wanting to take the girls back to their camp and show off to the other "boys" with look what we found awanderin' in the woods - dessert!

[gregpphoto]

The way I understand it, they were wanting to take the girls back to their camp and show off to the other "boys" with look what we found awanderin' in the woods - dessert!

These things will happen, be it in regular life, or on the road. And theres two ways to deal with it (three if you count not getting into the situation in the first place, but **** does happen), you either show fear, or you laugh it off. Statistically speaking, youre going to run into a lot more innuendo, creepy jokes, etc, than you will actual assault. Doesnt make it right, certainly, but it is what it is. Learn to go along for the ride and youll be surprised to learn that most of your fear is unfounded.

[gregpphoto]

I disagree. Hitchhiking in general terms is not something I'd recommend. However, within the context of the trail, it is accepted and commonplace. I'd say the OP's friends handled the situation well, and got to where they needed to go safely (though they might have been clearer that NO they wouldn't participate in whatever "joke" the older men were planning). Heck, iIf the older men had any brains, it might have dawned on them that they were putting themselves into a somewhat risky situation by picking up the hitchhikers.

Other than that I tend to agree with the consensus here: what the older men did was creepy and unacceptable, yet also more a reflection of their age and lack of culture and not a nefarious plot. Basically, one more adventure on the trail.

Whats your basis for not recommending it "in the real world"? I've hitched for thousands of miles, all of it solo, most of it away from popular hiking areas, and have had zero problems. Trust your gut and dont be retarded.

[atmilkman]

These things will happen, be it in regular life, or on the road. And theres two ways to deal with it (three if you count not getting into the situation in the first place, but **** does happen), you either show fear, or you laugh it off. Statistically speaking, youre going to run into a lot more innuendo, creepy jokes, etc, than you will actual assault. Doesnt make it right, certainly, but it is what it is. Learn to go along for the ride and youll be surprised to learn that most of your fear is unfounded.
Sad to say but going along for the ride can be misconstrued for going along for the ride. All it takes is a few beers or a couple of shots and it's - c'mon honey, deep down inside you know you want it or you wouldn't have gone along for the ride. Creepy ain't it.

[gregpphoto]

Sad to say but going along for the ride can be misconstrued for going along for the ride. All it takes is a few beers or a couple of shots and it's - c'mon honey, deep down inside you know you want it or you wouldn't have gone along for the ride. Creepy ain't it.

Yea, that is creepy. And I guess its difficult to draw the line and know where to place it. Hitch hiking is a leap of faith of sorts.

[atmilkman]

Yea, that is creepy. And I guess its difficult to draw the line and know where to place it. Hitch hiking is a leap of faith of sorts.
So very true and it's too bad. The guys should have never said anything like that to those girls. Real gentlemen wouldn't have. And there are still a few left. I really feel for the girls. They were put on the spot with this off the wall...........thingy (whatever you want to call it) proposition (for lack of better choice of words) and probably weren't expecting anything at all like that and were at a loss for words. Didn't have time to think of what to say to that. They should have just been able to say no, that sounds creepy and makes us feel uncomfortable. We prefer not to. There very well may have been some innocence to it all but in my opinion it was wrong. I think the OP did right by mentioning it here so that others may learn what or what not to do if ever faced with a similar situation. Again, just my opinion.

[Bronk]

Sounds to me like a bunch of people that don't have a sense of humor, a sense of gratitude or any common sense. Is someone saved me walking 4 miles up a hill and asked if I'd help them play a joke on their friends I'd say "sure, glad to." I wouldn't go posting to an internet forum about how creepy they were. And any time someone offers you a ride they are saving you a bunch of time and trouble. You don't complain because they take a detour or make an unscheduled stop. This whole thing is blown way out of proportion. Next time arrange your own transportation.

[rocketsocks]

Sounds to me like a bunch of people that don't have a sense of humor, a sense of gratitude or any common sense. Is someone saved me walking 4 miles up a hill and asked if I'd help them play a joke on their friends I'd say "sure, glad to." I wouldn't go posting to an internet forum about how creepy they were. And any time someone offers you a ride they are saving you a bunch of time and trouble. You don't complain because they take a detour or make an unscheduled stop. This whole thing is blown way out of proportion. Next time arrange your own transportation.
Since your gonna make that leap to just a practical joke, which is not a far leap...one can also leap in the oppisite direction, which wouldn't be far off.

"The survivor told police the men repeatedly raped her and her friend, she saw a chance to run...and just kept running"

None of us were there, the OP felt uncomfortable, what don't you get? it wasn't cool.

[Damn Yankee]

I have hiked with many woman and do not see them as that but, as a fellow hiker. I actually prefer to hike with women but, my wife is started to dislike it and afraid that they may say I tried something or possibly make advances. I on the other hand am very trusting and feel that women feel the same way I do and that is that we are fellow hiking enthusiast and that we do what we do for the love of it whether male or female.

[Altarboy]

Keep your bear-mace handy. You can fix a creepy situation quickly.

[Trillium]

Gregpphoto, you probably didn't intend it this way but when I read your line 'Learn to go along for the ride', it put me in mind of what Bobby Knight said, that is that "if rape is inevitable, lay back and enjoy it". And to that I would say some things that would be ****** out on here.

[rocketsocks]

Whats your basis for not recommending it "in the real world"? I've hitched for thousands of miles, all of it solo, most of it away from popular hiking areas, and have had zero problems. Trust your gut and dont be retarded.
Gepetto, Your a man, big difference. However, givin' your age I can see where your comin' from, I was once young and retarded too. On this one occasion I was given a ride, asked if I was a Cop, and driven around beyond my indicated drop off point and forced to use drugs, didn't have a huge problem with that, it was what we did at that time, but the 45 Auto I had pointed at me I had a big problem with. Just sayin...one doesn't always know good character in a 30 sec "Hey bud, you need a ride"

re·tard·ed
/riˈtärdid/ http://search.aol.com/assets/en/US/aolcom/0850laolr02/img/0850laolr02_icon_sound.png
adjective

less advanced in mental, physical, or social development than is usual for one's age.

[quasarr]

Sounds to me like a bunch of people that don't have a sense of humor, a sense of gratitude or any common sense. Is someone saved me walking 4 miles up a hill and asked if I'd help them play a joke on their friends I'd say "sure, glad to." I wouldn't go posting to an internet forum about how creepy they were.


As someone who hitchhikes more than hikes, I dont see what was so scary. They got out and talked to you while you were in the back?? Ohhh noo, so scary. Maybe I'm just dumb and dont understand what "tell a tale" means, other than they told you a story.



You should not have put yourselves in this situation in the first place. Too much risk.



I hope that reading these quotes together will give men some insight into the crazy maze of double standards that women navigate all day, every day.

Two of you have no idea why unwanted attention makes women nervous, while the third scolds these women for not being fearful enough.

[mtntopper]

Last week, four of us,all girls, hiked from Max Patch to Hot Springs. We then drove back to Max Patch to retrieve the second car. Well, my old beater didn't make it up the gravel road to the parking area. As I was pulling to the side, a pick-up started to pass. We asked if they wouldn't mind giving my friends a lift to the top of the mtn, about 4 miles. The two older men seemed excited to help, so my three friends hopped in the back of the truck as I limped my beater back to the bottom of the mtn.

As soon as the pick-up was around the corner, my friends told me the men pulled the truck over and both got out and approached the back. They then asked my friends if they 'could tell a tale', saying that they were going to show them off to their friends. After a time, in which my friends became incredibly uncomfortable, they drove on. The driver stopped again when they got to their wagon train friends, many more men, then they did take my friends to the parking area. From what the men told my friends, this is a group that travels from place to place via horse drawn wagons. ...besides scaring the crap out of my friends, nothing happened.

***I do think that the men in the pick-up did not mean any physical harm, but I can't imagine they were ignorant as to how scary they came across. If anyone knows this group as friendly and wonderful, I don't mean to give them a bad rap. I am just reporting on how my friends felt that their safety was in jeopardy.

I guess my friends could have jumped out of the back and ran away, but they were in flip flops and without any gear.

Just wanted to put the word out about the situation. I am a very trusting person, especially with the hiking community, maybe to a fault. This made me re-assess how willing I am to put myself, or my friends, into an odd situation.
i
The op did not state if her friends agreed to go along with this joke if indeed it was a joke. However the girls did stay in the truck which could have led the men to understand it to be ok. I think it was a sick thing for the men to do. I think saying no and getting out of the truck would have been the thing to do. If they were uncomfortable then decline the ride.

[greenmtnboy]

Statistics show that a sizable percentage of rapes are women against men; frankly pretty much everything that men have done or are thought to be likely to do to women happens the other way around in a significant percentage of case but is much less likely to be reported. Why are women so anxious about unlikely possibilities and men are not? Men are getting much more savvy to all the false reporting and risky relationships with unbalanced females. Personally I used to pick up every hitch hiker with limited exceptions, but see less and less reason for it with lazy people. Trail hikers with packs depend greatly on the good will of others; those who are nervous or a little paranoid about possible problems should get some self defense training. I never believed in this "trust your gut" thing, weirdos are a fact of life and dangerous psychos are virtually non-existent in hiking situations.

[Teacher & Snacktime]

Are you saying that a "sizeable percentage" of rapes are women raping men? Exactly where did these statistics originate? I would be very interested to see any documentation to this claim.

[MDSection12]

The guys in the truck showed some bad manners, the women reacted as they thought appropriate. On one hand we could say that the outcome was good so the women did something right, but on the other hand we could say that their worry was unwarranted and an unfavorable outcome was never a possibility... My inclination is simply to say 'do what you feel you need to in order to stay safe.' All this debate is pointless and only shows the ignorance of some of the folks in here.

These women weren't right or wrong, but they did what they needed to do and the outcome was good. Now as for posting it to an Internet forum as if the discussion was worthwhile...

[Teacher & Snacktime]

You're right MD....it's just SOOO easy to get sucked into the vortex.

[greenmtnboy]

Are you saying that a "sizeable percentage" of rapes are women raping men? Exactly where did these statistics originate? I would be very interested to see any documentation to this claim.

A quick google turned up this: http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2014/04/male_rape_in_america_a_new_study_reveals_that_men_ are_sexually_assaulted.html

Since this is a family site that should be enough that basic searches will flesh out the issue as ugly and scary as it is for all victims concerned.

[ams212001]

The guys in the truck showed some bad manners, the women reacted as they thought appropriate. On one hand we could say that the outcome was good so the women did something right, but on the other hand we could say that their worry was unwarranted and an unfavorable outcome was never a possibility... My inclination is simply to say 'do what you feel you need to in order to stay safe.' All this debate is pointless and only shows the ignorance of some of the folks in here.

These women weren't right or wrong, but they did what they needed to do and the outcome was good. Now as for posting it to an Internet forum as if the discussion was worthwhile...


I hope that reading these quotes together will give men some insight into the crazy maze of double standards that women navigate all day, every day.

Two of you have no idea why unwanted attention makes women nervous, while the third scolds these women for not being fearful enough.

+1 to both

[rocketsocks]

A quick google turned up this: http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2014/04/male_rape_in_america_a_new_study_reveals_that_men_ are_sexually_assaulted.html

Since this is a family site that should be enough that basic searches will flesh out the issue as ugly and scary as it is for all victims concerned.Sorry I call BS on that study. The victimization of Women vs the molestation of a Males as a children and rape of Male inmates is not a very good comparison other than all are sexual crimes, and does not to me indicate that high percentages of Women rape Men as fist stated. Understand, I'm not saying any of the stats are wrong and how terrible they are, just not buying them as they relate to the original argument.

[Wise Old Owl]

I am surprised you touched that... I gave it ...well I wasn't going to quote or answer...

[rocketsocks]

I am surprised you touched that... I gave it ...well I wasn't going to quote or answer...
I never know what your saying.

[Wise Old Owl]

I never know what your saying.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/5afb68986015a16f92ca5a9a31849084/tumblr_mkgilqaF6k1s9kakno1_500.gif

[Pedaling Fool]

A quick google turned up this: http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2014/04/male_rape_in_america_a_new_study_reveals_that_men_ are_sexually_assaulted.html

...
"We might assume that if a man has an erection he must want sex. But imagine if the same were said about women..."



Go ahead and assume; I am the sterotypical male:)

[88BlueGT]

I'm not trying to sound like a jerk but if you want to avoid potentially creepy situations you probably shouldn't take rides from strangers... regardless of where you are.

[ChuckT]

That didn't come out right. Sitting in a out patient clinic.
I'm trying to say that the subject is worthy of _thoughtful_ discussion.

[vamelungeon]

Don't believe the "trust your gut" maxim. A really dangerous (and successful) predator won't set off any alarm bells. I don't think the guys in the truck were predators, just not attuned to what would make young women nervous, and I'm not jumping on the "Let's string'em up" bandwagon. Insensitivity doesn't make one an evil person.

[rocketsocks]

Don't believe the "trust your gut" maxim. A really dangerous (and successful) predator won't set off any alarm bells. I don't think the guys in the truck were predators, just not attuned to what would make young women nervous, and I'm not jumping on the "Let's string'em up" bandwagon. Insensitivity doesn't make one an evil person.
I think that's true.

[rocketsocks]

That didn't come out right. Sitting in a out patient clinic.
I'm trying to say that the subject is worthy of _thoughtful_ discussion.
+1 agree........

[Teacher & Snacktime]

If we go back to the original post: It's clearly stated that the gentlemen in question are not being thought of as "evil" even after-the-fact. The most they are being accused of is being insensitive in their actions to the feelings of the others. It was the hope of the OP that if anyone knew these guys, they could give them a "heads up" for future interactions, and the girls were confident enough in the character of the men to feel this would not be accepted badly. That says a lot for what they felt were the overall personalities behind this situation.

It's not easy to tell Dad, or Grandad, that they maybe didn't behave as well as they should have.

[vamelungeon]

This has been a good discussion.

[rocketsocks]

If we go back to the original post: It's clearly stated that the gentlemen in question are not being thought of as "evil" even after-the-fact. The most they are being accused of is being insensitive in their actions to the feelings of the others. It was the hope of the OP that if anyone knew these guys, they could give them a "heads up" for future interactions, and the girls were confident enough in the character of the men to feel this would not be accepted badly. That says a lot for what they felt were the overall personalities behind this situation.

It's not easy to tell Dad, or Grandad, that they maybe didn't behave as well as they should have.


I agree, and I've seen no "band wagons" coming through my town yet, just some discussion on a couple fellas that got it wrong this time...and a heads up.

[rocketsocks]

This has been a good discussion.I agree, and while my band wagon comment was modeled after yours, it was not meant to inflame nor imply.

[moose717]

Don't believe the "trust your gut" maxim. A really dangerous (and successful) predator won't set off any alarm bells. I don't think the guys in the truck were predators, just not attuned to what would make young women nervous, and I'm not jumping on the "Let's string'em up" bandwagon. Insensitivity doesn't make one an evil person.

As a woman and a mother, this quote is a hard one for me. I'm not sure we know how to do that anymore. I tell my kids ... if the hair stands up on your arms, back off. Not that I believe these guys were anything to worry about ... but as a woman that hikes solo, I sooooo worry I won't know when to "trust my gut.".

[2015 Lady Thru-Hiker]

Did I miss it completely? What was the "tale" they were asked to tell? The response to that would guide my response to the whole situation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[likeahike]

Speaking of "miss it". Where is the first hand account of what happened? Seems the OP witnessed none of it.

[yerbyray]

There was a report of a female attempted abduction on Max Patch Rd on the Haywood county side around 1pm today's date. The situation is still fluid as a woman was either pushed into a gray Dodge Intrepid by two white males or was attempted to be pushed in the car.
Law enforcement units are enroute as I type this.

[rocketsocks]

There was a report of a female attempted abduction on Max Patch Rd on the Haywood county side around 1pm today's date. The situation is still fluid as a woman was either pushed into a gray Dodge Intrepid by two white males or was attempted to be pushed in the car.
Law enforcement units are enroute as I type this.
Well lets hope that works out for the best.

I'm reminded of the book "Jaws" that I'll be listening to on audio book while on vacation at the beach shortly. In that book Scientist Matt Hooper played by Richard Dreyfus says something about Territoriality, and how shanks stay in an area where food is plentiful. Same goes for creeps seeking what they covet, until acted upon, ie. caught, or they leave for some other reason.

Yerbyray, you being a LEO, is this a true statement?

[rocketsocks]

Speaking of "miss it". Where is the first hand account of what happened? Seems the OP witnessed none of it.


There was a report of a female attempted abduction on Max Patch Rd on the Haywood county side around 1pm today's date. The situation is still fluid as a woman was either pushed into a gray Dodge Intrepid by two white males or was attempted to be pushed in the car.
Law enforcement units are enroute as I type this.

likahike would you dispute the validity of this report as hearsay? I get where your comin' from, I always like my info first hand as well...but in this case the OP of this thread may not have seen it happen from over the hill and around the corner...but she was there, an active participant...good enough for me on this one.

[yerbyray]

likahike would you dispute the validity of this report as hearsay? I get where your comin' from, I always like my info first hand as well...but in this case the OP of this thread may not have seen it happen from over the hill and around the corner...but she was there, an active participant...good enough for me on this one.

I will follow up with this tomorrow when I go back to work and see what the rest of the story is. We, my partner actually talked to the reporting party, took the call first hand and you can tell in someone's voice when something is legitimate and this sounded that way when I listened to the audio recording.

As for creeps and bad guys....They are creature's of opportunity and fish in the same pond that produces fish until they are forced away. From panhandlers to serial killers....they "work" an area that they are comfortable with until it is too hot for them. They either lay low or move on. Typically when they move on, they are busted because they are out of their comfort zone. What is scarey is when law enforcement doesn't see or realize the pattern and crimes continue. A good example of this is the Highway 16 Killer in British Columbia (forty years and I am still not satisfied with the conclusion of it)

Relating to backpacking...I would like to see a comprehensive "sharing/database" of criminal activities relevant to the AT by all law enforcement agencies so trends and issues will be noticed before something bad happens. Heck it would be nice to know which parking areas are considered safe and which are not.

[rocketsocks]

I will follow up with this tomorrow when I go back to work and see what the rest of the story is. We, my partner actually talked to the reporting party, took the call first hand and you can tell in someone's voice when something is legitimate and this sounded that way when I listened to the audio recording.



Thanks Yerbray...hope it works out, kinda surprised ATer's aren't victims of crimes more often given the remoteness and their general trusting nature.

[likeahike]

likahike would you dispute the validity of this report as hearsay? I get where your comin' from, I always like my info first hand as well...but in this case the OP of this thread may not have seen it happen from over the hill and around the corner...but she was there, an active participant...good enough for me on this one.Personally I prefer to hear both sides of a story before I form an opinion. In this case I've heard neither side.

[Skyline]

If you download the shuttle list from ATC's website, it includes information about trailheads that have experienced criminal activity--including the last reported date.

[yerbyray]

There was a report of a female attempted abduction on Max Patch Rd on the Haywood county side around 1pm today's date. The situation is still fluid as a woman was either pushed into a gray Dodge Intrepid by two white males or was attempted to be pushed in the car.
Law enforcement units are enroute as I type this.

Update...Turns out it was a few locals who had a wreck, managed to get it back on the road, and subsequently wrecked again down the road. I think what the reporting party saw was the female getting fed up with the two fellows driving and decided to walk off.

Law enforcement got there and worked it all out.

[FlyFishNut]

Well, I had something like this happen to me. Me and a buddy were offered a ride from two girls. They were farmer's daughters actually. They took us back and said we could stay in their barn.

The come-ons became very persistent and the one bigger girl that favored Ellie May physically tried to pick me up and carry me to the loft, but luckily she was ticklish so I was able to keep her at Bay.

In retrospect, I was wearing some tight shorts and a sleeveless Under Armor shirt that may have contributed to the gals' behavior.

[greenmtnboy]

The last ting on my mind as a hiker was anything of a physical relationship with women, as much as many hikers want to develop and maintain healthy relationships with others without any expectations of taking advantage. Hikng 20 miles plus a day is more than enough of a challenge. Hikers who were hiking as couples with their girlfriends were hiking usually less than 10 miles a day. The problem hitch-hiking I had were drivers trying to put a "trip" on those they were giving "free" rides to, making it feel like you were being selfish or irresponsible for an extended hike. It's fine if those giving you a ride want a few bucks in return, but any such expectation needs to be made clear as the start. And once again this idea that you need to follow your gut instinct, your hunches, your judgment of the character of those in hiking situations often leads to unwarranted flight; if others neither do or say anything to give concern then why be concerned? Of course it is clear that anyone taking you anywhere except where originally planned/agreed at the start of the ride should be a cause of concern, but no one giving such a ride is going to take a chance of becoming the next target of local police and prosecutors with all the power they have. https://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/07/john-w-whitehead/will-you-be-trapped-in-an-absurd-bureaucratic-hell/