Stealth Camping

[CHRISTINE2015]

I have read many great debates about whether to stay in shelters or not. I don't have a lot of experience camping outside designated camping areas in state/national parks and would love some advice about how to decide just where to set up your tent. I don't want to always have to plan my mileage by where the shelters are, but want to know things you should consider when picking a place.

[Hikes in Rain]

I sometimes pick mine by simply running out of daylight. :) A flat level spot large enough for your tent, prefreably one that's been used before (it'll be obvious, and generally they're all around), is essential. Added bonuses would be access to water (although you can fill up late afternoon and camp just about anywhere, a view, some little distance from the trail, maybe a fire ring.

[Vibes Man]

Christine2015, I'm curious about that, too. I do not plan on using the shelters. Partly, because my dog is with me. Partly, because stopping between shelters is highly likely. I'm interested to read what the experienced hikers suggest. Good post.

[q-tip]

I spent many nights stealth camping on the AT. Mostly due to runing out of gas late in my hike. I would stop where I found a close water sourcd and flat ground. Many times I just set up my tent right on the trail, but this was in November. I didnt think it was much of a big deal....I did and do practice Leave No Trace ......

[RED-DOG]

for me a good camp site has a couple things, a short Walking distance to a water source, flat or semi-flat ground preferably not on top a ridge and a short distance from the trail. since the only time i make a fire is when it's cold or i am wet to only dry my clothes so then i don't really look for a fire ring and if i need one i will build it myself, I usally will use the last hour or so of my hiking day to look for an site. so my advice to you is when choosing a campsite, look for water ( the most important thing ), flat ground or semi flat, and how close is it to the trail, it does not matter if their is an assisting fire ring or not, the most important thing to remember is when choosing a site is to choose one that has been used before, but if you can't find an used site, just find a place with less vegetation as possible and you will be fine, but the best place to camp is beside a shelter cause the ground has already been trampled to death and you'll not destroying the vegetation out in the woods and thats usually where the better water sources are but me i usually will camel up at a shelter then hike another hour or so and camp.

[RED-DOG]

and i want to add that you should never camp in a depression or low spot cause if it rains during the night you might be in a foot or so water and thats a rude awakening in the middle of the night for anybody.

[Busky2]

After hundreds under these worn old feet I have just lately starting to use the shelters to sleep in to carry less pack weight but on some days they just seem to move farther apart than my weary bones can go, so a tenting I go. I used to hammock all the time and with the hammock there was no real question as to where to set up, it was easy. But, with the tent as the day wears on I am looking at the clock and scanning for a nice spot, water is a plus. Also if I feel the knee, back or feet starting to complain I check the H2O availability in the guide, tank up and grab the next spot that comes along. Some days I fair better than others and will pass a shelter and get some extra miles that I would not normally get if I dropped in that shelter, but I miss the stories and the camaraderie of the dinner hour. Stealth IMHO is an illusion we create in our environment and others help us when they notice us, and they do just as do we them, but not really "take" notice, as they just as we would or do continue to saunter along, both alone and at the same time together in nature and endeavor.

[Cookerhiker]

Keep in mind that along the AT Corridor, there are some stretches where stealth camping, i.e. camping not at designated sites/shelters, is prohibited. Examples include all of NJ, most of NY west of the Hudson (Harriman Park), CT, and Baxter State Park in Maine. I believe, but I'm not sure, that stealth camping is also banned in MD and MA.

[Wil]

I sometimes pick mine by simply running out of daylight. :) A flat level spot large enough for your tent, prefreably one that's been used beforeThat's fine. But if you get off the trail an unused spot is OK as long as the vegetation is soft enough to give (without breaking, or poking you with sharp points). It will spring back pretty quickly. Compensating for non-flat ground gets pretty easy after a little experience. Hips can go quite comfortably in a depression, head can be slightly higher, feet can be up slightly, flat or downslope (compensated for with some gear underneath). The whole spot doesn't have to be flatish, just the small thin rectangle actually occupied by your body.

Carrying dinner & breakfast water, plus a little for a washbasin-bath, from the last crossing is usually trivial.

[TNhiker]

Keep in mind that along the AT Corridor, there are some stretches where stealth camping, i.e. camping not at designated sites/shelters, is prohibited. Examples include all of NJ, most of NY west of the Hudson (Harriman Park), CT, and Baxter State Park in Maine. I believe, but I'm not sure, that stealth camping is also banned in MD and MA.


Also cannot stealth camp in great smoky mountains national park....

Maybe Shenandoah as well but not sure about that park...

[Slo-go'en]

Many times I just set up my tent right on the trail, but this was in November. I didnt think it was much of a big deal....I did and do practice Leave No Trace ......

Tenting right on the trail is generally not a good idea. The trail is not only a highway for people, but is also used by many animals, some of them quite large. This is especially true for Maine, being stepped on by a Moose would not be fun.

[kayak karl]

a hammock makes things much easier :) where it is legal to camp ;)

[Wise Old Owl]

Huh? legal? OMG.. KK some day it would be great to hang with you... I just wish I had the opportunity- My van carries 2 kayaks. I will bring the BBQ.

[shelb]

.... but I miss the stories and the camaraderie of the dinner hour. .....

This is so true!

[Another Kevin]

5 W's.
Wind, get out of it in cold weather, use it to advantage in hot.
Water, near to your shelter but not in it. Don't camp in washes.
Widowmakers, make sure you're not pitching under one.
Wood, if you want a fire.
Wildlife, don't camp in a game trail, or on an anthill, or around similar hazards.

More than 50 yards from a trail, 50 yards from water, a quarter-mile from a road.

Don't poop where you eat, or do either where you sleep.

Beyond that, it's just details, like the rule of pitching half way up a slope when it's chilly (warmer than either the valley or the ridge).

[Damn Yankee]

I just recently went on my first long hike(20+miles)and found that reaching a shelter wasn't feasible. If you have a guide book, it will tell you about tent sites between shelters and also water sources. As in my case, it was to far to the shelter but we did find a campsite although it meant that the hike day ended somewhat early but was a welcome sight. A guide book is a necessary item. I would never camp anywhere that wasn't a designated sight.

[Cookerhiker]

Also cannot stealth camp in great smoky mountains national park....

Maybe Shenandoah as well but not sure about that park...

Thanks for mentioning the Smokies - I missed the obvious.

Shenandoah has rules but you're not confined to shelters or designated campsites; it is possible to backcountry camp in Shenandoah. Rules are posted on the park website (http://www.nps.gov/shen/planyourvisit/campbc_prepare.htm).

[CHRISTINE2015]

Thanks everyone so far, super helpful, I was aware of the rules in the Smokies, but didn't know so many other places had similar rules. How do you know when entering a new area what you are and aren't allowed to do in terms of tenting? The guide book doesn't seem to have an inclusive list, is there one posted online somewhere maybe?

[SawnieRobertson]

[QUOTE=Cookerhiker;1893524]Keep in mind that along the AT Corridor, there are some stretches where stealth camping, i.e. camping not at designated sites/shelters, is prohibited. Examples include all of NJ, most of NY west of the Hudson (Harriman Park), CT, and Baxter State Park in Maine. I believe, but I'm not sure, that stealth camping is also banned in MD and MA.[/AQUOTE]

"Stealth" means stealth. For whatever reason, including its not being "legal," you do not want to be found. For that reason, you choose a spot that you believe will be beyond the sight of what/whoever is moving up/down the trail. You go there. You look back to see if the trail is visible. If it is, you move to the next possible spot and check again. Once you have found a place that is not visible from the trail, then you set up your tent/hammock. Now, you want to make SURE that it cannot be seen, so you walk back to the trail, stare back at where you set up, and, if it is not there, you go back and go to sleep. In the early, early morning, you pack up and then return the site to its pristine state, even lifting the grass so that it does not show how you had squished it last night. One last note: Always look to make sure that no one is coming along from either direction when you are doing your searches. The point is to be not seen. And, yes, I have done this with my dog.

[SawnieRobertson]

Oh,my--please accept my apologies. I just advocated and spoke in detail about doing a sometimes illegal act like tenting wherever you need to for whatever reason.

[Pedaling Fool]

Oh,my--please accept my apologies. I just advocated and spoke in detail about doing a sometimes illegal act like tenting wherever you need to for whatever reason.Anything, including simple hiking, can be "sometimes illegal".

[rickb]

Oh,my--please accept my apologies. I just advocated and spoke in detail about doing a sometimes illegal act like tenting wherever you need to for whatever reason.

I am thinking that people's focus on legalities can often leave them short changed.

There are plenty of legal places to camp along the AT that are not designated campsites and are not mentioned specifically in the guidebooks.

Obey the local regulations, to be sure-- just know that prohibitions are not everywhere. Guide books and signs can help with that.

In some areas you can guess where there will be campsites just by looking at a map. For some reason you see a lot of campsites where trails intersect-- regardless of the aesthetic merits of the area. These spots are often close to the treadway, though.

If you want to walk in the woods and out of sight, following a stream can be a good tactic-- apart from the water, it provides an easy way to go in far enough to be out of sight and yet provide a clear way back to the trail.

Carrying dinner water for the last hour of your day can really open up opportunities to find a good spot, too. Just turn up your radar for that last hour and be flexible.

I tend to be hyper aware of prohibitions in the Whites because I am most comfortable knowing I have an absolute right to be where I tent, but was thrown a curve recently. Apart from the regulation that off trail camping in WILDERNESS areas has to be 200 feet from a trail (I was prepared for that) the Forest Service posted new signs going into the PEMI Wilderness (on their letterhead with official seal) that there was no camping within 200 feet of Streams-- anywhere in the PEMI! Definitely a *** moment in the WMNF.

I rolled with that and changed plans-- not out of fear of being caught, but just more relaxing to play by the rules. Now, if I could only find the idiot who came up with those signs...

[The Solemates]

doesnt publicly discussing 'stealth camping' negate the idea?

[rocketsocks]

doesnt publicly discussing 'stealth camping' negate the idea?
Worse, it thrusts you into the cats gory of conspiracy...I'm starting the have visions of "Alice's Restaurant" with 8x10 photo color glossy's and and arrow on the back pointing to the scene of the crime.

[Slo-go'en]

doesnt publicly discussing 'stealth camping' negate the idea?

'stealth camping' has become the term used for camping in non-designated sites, legal or not.

"I'm not going to stay in (or near) shelters" is easier said then done. The reality is finding a suitable camping spot off the trail in the raw woods isn't an easy task.

[The Solemates]

'stealth camping' has become the term used for camping in non-designated sites, legal or not.



thanks for enlightening me :rolleyes:

[Tron-Life]

Before entering a National Forest, Wilderness Area or new state, there is usually a covered bulletin board that has the local regulations and other helpful information.

As far as picking a spot, I think Another Kevin's 5 Ws guidelines are great but I wanted to add a thing or two.

I try not to camp near water if I can help it. Starting at around 5 or so, or anytime I'm thinking of stopping, I look around and see where I am. Am I up high on a windy ridge? If so, I look for a flat stretch with good wind protection with plenty of coniferous trees for a nice clean pine needle bed. I also try to camp high rather than low as cold air pools in pockets and in the valley. If I have an elevation map, I use it to find a little sub-hill by a larger one which will place me high enough to avoid pooling water or cold air, but will place me below the really strong gusts of cold air. I don't want the air to be too still though, as this can be an area with high mosquito activity.

If I'm low in the valley with alot of deciduous trees, I pay very close attention to the smell of the air. Does it smell damp and heavy? Is there alot of water nearby? If so I climb up till I find what I was looking for before. Once I start seeing the type of area I want, I stop at the first water source and use my extra platypus bag (2.5liters) and fill it and my other bottles for dinner/hygiene/breakfast. Campsites too close to water are buggy and cold so should be avoided if possible. I've found that the best places to find sites is towards the top of a small hill that the trail is contouring around toward the next big climb. If you see trees of there, just start walking up the hill till you find that perfect spot.

Finding good camps sites is not that hard but you need to give yourself ample time; don't try to find one when your tired and its getting dark.

I wanted to talk a bit about the possible advantages and disadvantages of staying at shelters.

Shelter Advantages Over Stealth Camp:

Quick no nonsense setup; just makes some room and fall out.

You can meet some great folks there and have a really fun time.

Shelters are predictable and allow you to measure your progress slightly better because you know exactly where you are.

Shelters usually have water and a privy close at hand.

Staying at shelters focuses environmental impact in one area.

Stealth Camp Advantages Over Shelters:

Privacy. Which Includes not having to be quite at night or feel bad about waking up to pee or bother people with you nocturnal activities.

Warmth. The wooden planks of the shelters can be awfully cold at night and the fact that they are usually wide open to wind doesn't help. Think about it, in a shelter the walls are too far away from you and don't reflect your heat back as they would in the closer quarters of your tent or tarp.

Comfort. The wooden planks of the shelters are HARD. This alone keeps my from staying at shelter very often as I am a side sleeper and after sleeping in a shelter I wake up sore as heck.

Solitude/closer connection to nature. Especially with a tarp, waking up in the woods by yourself without any reminders of human activity has its own magic associated with it, and for me, makes the experience all the more enjoyable. I also think that being by yourself in a stealth camp is a bit more challenging and increases self-reliance and self confidence.


That being said, I do use shelters for lunch and sometimes dinner if I get bored or lonely and want to socialize. One of the best parts of the AT hiking experience is definitely the you meet!

Hope someone finds this useful,
Peace

[Tron-Life]

Another advantage of stealth camping compared to shelters is that there are far less mice and hungry critters around. Shelters tend to attract vermin as they are easy spots for them to find a meal. Your stealth site is in the woods still and surrounded by animals, but that site is not as likely to attract critters as they are not habituated to looking there for food.

[Wil]

'stealth camping' has become the term used for camping in non-designated sites, legal or not.

"I'm not going to stay in (or near) shelters" is easier said then done. The reality is finding a suitable camping spot off the trail in the raw woods isn't an easy task.For many people, what you say is true, and that is worth saying. Life is not easy. A certain degree of experience and common sense is often assumed, and you are correct in your caution.

BTW "stealth" camping as I, and most frequent backpackers, use the term refers to legal spots, frequently not hard pads, used in a way that minimizes negative impact or intrusion on other hikers or the environment. "Stealth" refers to lack of visibility and impact, not illegality.

Many legal sites are immediately adjacent to or just off the trail. These are the antithesis of stealth camping.

[Malto]

Your choice of shelter will help your ability to camp in "wild" sites. I purposely made my shelter components with a very small footprint to allow me to squeeze into spaces just about anywhere.

one final notes. For those who chose to camp on the trail, don't get an attitude if hikers coming cruising through while you are asleep. And if you pitch in a tight area, you may get tripped over. I would only camp on the trail if hiking into the night.

[lemon b]

Leaving no trace in a well selected spot is always fine. My experience is that making a fire and leaving no trace can not be done. Weather is the key in site selection. Learn how to read the ground. Shelter area's are already more than a trace.

[Odd Man Out]

Stealth camping in this context is also called dispersed camping (i.e. not camping in designated camp grounds). Here on WB, we assume we are talking about doing that in places where it is allowed. BTW, another place where it is not allowed is from VA 624 NoBo past McAfee Knob (around Catawba, south of Daleville - I'm not sure how far past McAfee that restriction goes).

It is my understanding that the use of "stealth" in this context is not so much that you are not found by other people but by animals. In the Sierra Hiking on-line discussions you often read about stealth camping as stopping for dinner, then hiking a bit more before setting up camp in a place where there will be fewer food odors. Bears are smart and learn that if they come by a shelter around sunset, they will often find an unattended bag of food they can have. If you are camping some place that is not regularly used as a campground, bears will be less of a problem as they will have not learned about your spot. Decreasing these bear-human interactions is good for humans and especially good for the bears.

[Another Kevin]

Oh,my--please accept my apologies. I just advocated and spoke in detail about doing a sometimes illegal act like tenting wherever you need to for whatever reason.

The techniques of stealth camping are the same whether you're trying to do praiseworthy LNT dispersed camping in places where it's lawful, or blameworthy trespassing or vagrancy in places where it isn't. I discuss the techniques without inquiring into the motives.

It just so happens that in the New York State Forest Preserve, where I do most of my hiking, that proper stealth camping (below 3500 feet elevation, at least 200 feet from trail or water, at least a quarter-mile from a highway), in addition to being lawful, is likely to escape a ranger's notice entirely. Doing the same in Harriman, where the rules are different, isn't lawful, but done with proper technique, is still likely to escape a ranger's notice. I don't advocate it, but presume that the people here are grown-ups who can make their own decisions about their level of respect for the law.

I've also had trips where I've consulted a ranger in advance, because I was planning an unusual route, and interpreted the ranger's suggestion for where to find an unofficial campsite as permission to camp there. There are many laws where the "thou shalt not" of the regulation really means "if you're planning to do this, we really want you to go over your plans with us." When the traffic cop waves me through the red light, I don't argue. :) On one winter trip, the conversation went, "I see that I could camp down by XXX, but I'm not sure that I can make it that far in a day on snowshoes." "Oh, why don't you just camp near ZZZ? You ain't gonna hurt the snow any!"

Then again, a lot of my hiking is in places where trails are suggestions.

[rusty bumper]

From my 2011 journal:

By choosing to stealth camp I was able to hike until a set time of day rather than to a destination. In the Smokies I remember staying at a shelter at which I’d arrived at 3:30 in the afternoon. My first thought after arrival was, “OK, now what do I do for the rest of the day?” It turned out to be a nasty weather day in that particular case and so in the end, I didn’t mind sitting idle for those extra hours. But most days, my hike started between 6:30 and 7:00 am and it ended sometime around 6:00 pm or so. I’d usually start looking for a flat tent site just before 6pm and hike ‘til I found one. It seemed to me that hiking to a fixed destination would either result in an early finish to the day with too much time spent not hiking, or a late finish to the day, neither of which appealed to me.

[rocketsocks]

I like hikin' by the 27769of the day, or the shine of the 27768 where I lay my head is of no consequence to me but fer a flat spot.

[rocketsocks]

From my 2011 journal:

By choosing to stealth camp I was able to hike until a set time of day rather than to a destination. In the Smokies I remember staying at a shelter at which I’d arrived at 3:30 in the afternoon. My first thought after arrival was, “OK, now what do I do for the rest of the day?” It turned out to be a nasty weather day in that particular case and so in the end, I didn’t mind sitting idle for those extra hours. But most days, my hike started between 6:30 and 7:00 am and it ended sometime around 6:00 pm or so. I’d usually start looking for a flat tent site just before 6pm and hike ‘til I found one. It seemed to me that hiking to a fixed destination would either result in an early finish to the day with too much time spent not hiking, or a late finish to the day, neither of which appealed to me.+1...............

[Vibes Man]

for me a good camp site has a couple things, a short Walking distance to a water source, flat or semi-flat ground preferably not on top a ridge and a short distance from the trail. since the only time i make a fire is when it's cold or i am wet to only dry my clothes so then i don't really look for a fire ring and if i need one i will build it myself, I usally will use the last hour or so of my hiking day to look for an site. so my advice to you is when choosing a campsite, look for water ( the most important thing ), flat ground or semi flat, and how close is it to the trail, it does not matter if their is an assisting fire ring or not, the most important thing to remember is when choosing a site is to choose one that has been used before, but if you can't find an used site, just find a place with less vegetation as possible and you will be fine, but the best place to camp is beside a shelter cause the ground has already been trampled to death and you'll not destroying the vegetation out in the woods and thats usually where the better water sources are but me i usually will camel up at a shelter then hike another hour or so and camp.

Thanks. That is helpful to know.

[Blue Mountain Edward]

There are usually cleared flat spots near road crossings and water sources. Sometimes I carry a half gallon plastic jug and a half gallon canteen so I can carry a lot of water and camp miles from a water source. A plastic milk or iced tea jug is not that heavy when it is empty.

[Sacchoromyces]

My experiences with stealth mode has not been on the AT. I've used it on multi-day bicycle tours, and backpacking in the State Forest Lands of Pennsylvania. It was legal in both instances except for the few times when it was some farmer's pasture or private woodlot. I even crashed in an abandoned barn during a thunderstorm one night in Potter county.

As for ethics of stealth camping on the AT: bear in mind that your actions reflect on the hiker-trash community at large. If asked to vacate a spot for legal reasons comply and be apologetic. Manners count in these instances. Try to be far enough off trails so as to not be in someone's way that night or early AM. It would bother them as much as you if they tripped over you or your trail pet.

[bamboo bob]

Stealth camping is camping in spots that do not allow camping. That's why its done with stealth, because you don't want to be seen. Camping in the woods between shelters is not stealth camping. I have stealth camped many, many times. And I won't tell you where because that wouldn't be very stealthy now would it?

[Coffee]

I've heard people refer to stealth camping to mean hiding your camp for any reason ... Such as seeking solitude, not just illegally camping.

[Connie]

I have done no illegal camping.

I have done a great deal of "stealth" camping, as you say, here.

Read all the thread for ideas how to legally Leave No Trace have the best campsites, in my opinion.

I don't want to pitch my backpacking shelter on a wooden platform, or, on gravel, or, on hard pan dirt.

What park service bureaucrat came up with that for tent campsites? RV campsites, but wooden platforns?

What is that about? I think the wooden platforms ought to be removed. I mean, where is the backpacking experience in having to sleep, or, expected to sleep on a wooden platform, when the natural ground is so mich more comfortable, in comparison. Backpackers have sleeping padd and aur mattresses, if the natural ground isn't to their liking.

Others hammock: I, actually, saw a hammocker run out of a campsite with a wooden platform for a tent.

What is that about? Has the park service lost their way? Did that park service employee actually think anyone would pitch their tent there? Even the car campers put their folding chairs with drink holders on the wooden platform.

I would think, if you pitched a backpacking tent on a wooden platform, you would not want to do that again.

Mud? Look around. Find a better campsite.

In Arizona, you can actually have a permit for primitive camping. The Ranger explained all that, when I asked at thr office. I got maps, brochures. He showed me where the abandoned cabins are, people use. He showed me were hot springs are.

I showed him my small U.S. Forest Service EcoSafe "river toilet" I have for Leave No Trace. He liked that. It was brand new. I really really wanted to not break any rules, so I had purchased the EcoSafe toilet by mail order before leaving home. I did not bring the seat. That is too much to backpack.

People backpack a bear canister.

Why not backpack the small EcoSafe? No big deal.

In Arizona, "human waste" in the desert is a big fine!

The other thing: I have maps and more maps. I have Forest Service maps, BLM maps, park maps, topo maps. I evaluate an area. I inquire. I stop at Forest Service, BLM and park offices. I ask questions.

Now, I have Onx Hunt app. For $34.99 I can have interactive GPS, or not, an entire state, public and private land, streets, dirt roads, topographic map. I can download the regions I need. Hunting or not is mapped out. I can decide to wear "hunter orange" or "acid green" if that is the name of the safety signage color. I can decide not to go there in hunting season.

This app is a great help, because I do not want to get on private property.

It also shows the owner. If interested, I could locate the owner to write to request permission.

I am not a hunter. Maybe the private property ownership information is to request permission to hunt: I have noticed a great deal of private property, in Montana, is designated for hunting. I have heard about permits for hunting turkeys, for example, on private property. Limited to six hunters, for example, that would tend to increase safety for hunters. Too many hunters, in a small area, is not good, for hunter safety. That is my impression only.

Myself? I do not go backpacking in hunting season.

It is good to know "when and where" for hunting season, for that reason.

I think campsite selection is an important skill, for backpacking. Leave No Trace camping is the best, as far as I am concerned, to experience the natural environment.

[Another Kevin]

Stealth camping is camping in spots that do not allow camping. That's why its done with stealth, because you don't want to be seen. Camping in the woods between shelters is not stealth camping. I have stealth camped many, many times. And I won't tell you where because that wouldn't be very stealthy now would it?

Ray Jardine, who popularized the term "stealth camping" with Beyond Backpacking and the Ray Way, didn't define "stealth" camping as illegal camping. The "stealth" referred to low visual impact when you're there and Leave No Trace when you aren't.. It had nothing to do with hiding from the landowner or the lawman.

[sparky2000]

I've seen large tribes that won't camp in the shelters - they always go to the nearest stream and camp
together. If you want to avoid the trouble of shelters - mice, snakes, rat waste poisons, ect. it
will be easy to pal up with others and stealth.

[rafe]

Carrying dinner water for the last hour of your day can really open up opportunities to find a good spot, too. Just turn up your radar for that last hour and be flexible.

I go with that strategy. I generally aim for a proper shelter or campsite, but if it gets late in the day and it's clear that Plan B is called for, I start looking for opportunities to fill my Platy bag so that I can just tent in the woods. "Turning up the radar" is exactly how I approach it at that point.

[peakbagger]

I am coming on to this late, but In my opinion, that at least along the AT having a fire does not line up with stealth camping. Having a small fire without leaving a significant impact is possible but the vast majority of folks don't know how or are unwilling to do so. Leaving a pile of blackened rocks and ashes is not stealthing. The only trace left should be some matted down vegetation and possibly some dead woods dispersed elsewhere.

[Sly]

Unless restricted you can camp anywhere on the AT. The Companion lists most established campsites noted in the tables and elevation profiles.

[Sly]

Ray Jardine, who popularized the term "stealth camping" with Beyond Backpacking and the Ray Way, didn't define "stealth" camping as illegal camping. The "stealth" referred to low visual impact when you're there and Leave No Trace when you aren't.. It had nothing to do with hiding from the landowner or the lawman.

Yup. For some reason it seems many AT hikers believe it's illegal, or use the term interchangeably. I wish they'd call it illegal camping, like some places in the Whites or where camping is restricted, what it is, illegal.

[NY HIKER 50]

This may sound funny but it's not. I usually keep going since many times it's too early to stay at a shelter. Also, you never know who will show up and you hope it isn't a late night party. Also there's more privacy. I also stopped using the area at or near a shelter since my snoring can blow the roof off and people suffer hearing loss for about a half mile radius. As someone already said, once the light starts failing you have to stop somewhere. I can use a hammock or just throw something on the ground. If you're really stealthing you should NOT have to worry about being caught. I dislike the word illegal. Especially if you do get caught in the dark and it's happened to me many times. As far as LNT how do you leave a trace if you are just throwing down a sleeping bag? Some of these people are just too much.

[Slo-go'en]

[/QUOTE] What park service bureaucrat came up with that for tent campsites? RV campsites, but wooden platforns?

What is that about? I think the wooden platforms ought to be removed. I mean, where is the backpacking experience in having to sleep, or, expected to sleep on a wooden platform, when the natural ground is so mich more comfortable, in comparison. Backpackers have sleeping padd and aur mattresses, if the natural ground isn't to their liking. [/QUOTE]

Apparently you've never been to the White Mountains of NH. With out tent platforms, it would take heavy equipment to make sites suitable for tenting!

[Connie]

I have never been there. No hammocks, either?

We have wood platforms, or, gravel, in campgrounds practically no one ever visits, because the campground is off the beaten track or, simply, down a long dirt road.

It is horrible.

I came all that way, or, hiked so far only to find a wooden platform or gravel.

Of course, I Leave No Trace "stealth camp". Of course, I pack it out. I go out there for the beauty.

If I can't do that, I just turn around a go home. I tell myself, scenic drive, nice "road trip".

[kayak karl]

in New Jersey Stealth camping is Illegal camping.

[NY HIKER 50]

in New Jersey Stealth camping is Illegal camping.

could you and your kind please go away?

[kayak karl]

could you and your kind please go away? you don't know the laws in NJ, do you! and "your kind"????

[rocketsocks]

This may sound funny but it's not. I usually keep going since many times it's too early to stay at a shelter. Also, you never know who will show up and you hope it isn't a late night party. Also there's more privacy. I also stopped using the area at or near a shelter since my snoring can blow the roof off and people suffer hearing loss for about a half mile radius. As someone already said, once the light starts failing you have to stop somewhere. I can use a hammock or just throw something on the ground. If you're really stealthing you should NOT have to worry about being caught. I dislike the word illegal. Especially if you do get caught in the dark and it's happened to me many times. As far as LNT how do you leave a trace if you are just throwing down a sleeping bag? Some of these people are just too much.
Your kind gives hikers a bad name, get a clue and move the kind hair outta your eyes.29134

[johnnybgood]

As long as there are no posted signs you can stealth camp almost anywhere along the trail. You just need to be aware of any NPS regulations that may prohibit camping in certain areas
On a side note, there are certain areas where the AT doesn't really give us a suitable place to stealth, unless of course you're hanging and trees are plentiful.

[NY HIKER 50]

This may sound funny but it's not. I usually keep going since many times it's too early to stay at a shelter. Also, you never know who will show up and you hope it isn't a late night party. Also there's more privacy. I also stopped using the area at or near a shelter since my snoring can blow the roof off and people suffer hearing loss for about a half mile radius. As someone already said, once the light starts failing you have to stop somewhere. I can use a hammock or just throw something on the ground. If you're really stealthing you should NOT have to worry about being caught. I dislike the word illegal. Especially if you do get caught in the dark and it's happened to me many times. As far as LNT how do you leave a trace if you are just throwing down a sleeping bag? Some of these people are just too much.

Maybe you folks don't read the entire posting. See you at the shelters. Just remember to bring the ear plugs. Or be prepared for the onslaught. I won't pay for your hearing aid. What was this about a bad name?

[rocketsocks]

Maybe you folks don't read the entire posting. See you at the shelters. Just remember to bring the ear plugs. Or be prepared for the onslaught. I won't pay for your hearing aid. What was this about a bad name?
It's not my snoring you need to worry about, it's my flatulence, lucky for you I don't sleep in shelters, I steath camp.

[Cadenza]

Oh,my--please accept my apologies. I just advocated and spoke in detail about doing a sometimes illegal act like tenting wherever you need to for whatever reason.


Yes, but yours was the best post on the thread!

[Tipi Walter]

To me Stealth Camping will always and irrevocably be camping illegally. And I used to be the king of stealth camping back in the 1980's as I had no car and camped wherever the heck I wanted to camp in all conditions. Such camping allowed me to hitchhike to California from NC and allowed me to camp out in different tree lines every night. I was a hobo with excellent gear and my attitude was the Earth Belonged To Me.

It was fun sleeping out every night and doing it behind churches or in farm pastures or under parked 18 wheelers (yes, once) or near yoga retreats from Virginia to California (anybody been to Yogaville in Virginia? Or Ananda Village by Nevada City?). I had a few rules for success: Never build a fire, never leave a car parked anywhere, carry a green camo poncho to cover your tent etc. Keep moving and pretend you're a wandering monk and everything will be okay.

But now that I'm older I want to be Legal and I do not need to sneak around---there are a million legal campsites in the mountains of NC and TN and Georgia and Virginia---all you have to do is have gear and walk to them. No torque.

Stealth camping IS NOT getting off a trail a bit and setting up camp at a new spot. This is simply camping, not stealth camping. If you find a new spot 10 feet off the trail and camp it is not stealth camping. If you go a mile off the trail and camp at a new spot, it's not stealth camping, it's just bushwacking and finding a camping spot, a legal spot.

If you ever see a bum camping under a bush near the courthouse, THAT is stealth camping.

[Dogwood]

Tipi, you rolled out some good entertainment for today.;)

Some other examples of stealth camping:

1) sleeping in a basball dug out through a hurricane

2) sleeping in ghost town's church or sheriff's office or hunter's cabin particularly and definitely so if No Trespassing Signs are in evidence
3) sleeping in a fully erected tent, hammock, or bivy behind the Interstate truck stop(ear plugs, nose clothes pin, and blindfold recommended)
4) in any bathroom, privy, or outhouse
5) in farm structures(barns, chicken coops, silos, etc), working farm structures definitely a no no
6) in the tunnel to nowhere, in the S. Kiabab Tr tunnel(you'll likely be stomped on by an irate early morning mule train not to mention having to contend with an irate livestock handler)
7) sleeping inside the back of a U-Haul moving van, a fire is a definite no no
8) under a roadway or train bridge
9) under or atop or within 100 ft of any arch in Arches NP or Red River Gorge
10) under a TH kiosk, under a NP or SP main entrance sign

Mining shacks, caves, rock shelters, at the base of waterfalls, on the edge of escarpments, abandoned buildings, etc possibly acceptable.

[Slo-go'en]

I once slept under an I-95 off ramp in Boston. That was interesting.
29178

[imscotty]

I once slept under an I-95 off ramp in Boston. That was interesting.
29178

And you made it out alive! I am impressed.

[Sarcasm the elf]

in New Jersey Stealth camping is Illegal camping.

If I recall, once you get into the DWG Recreation Area certain dispersed camping is allowed. I had an awesome night camping inside the footprint of an old house when I passed through, and based on the instructions at the entrance, the spot was legal.

[Coffee]

The funny thing about backpacking is that since I've gotten more into it I have started to look at typical urban features in terms of how they could provide shelter. There are some trails near my home in a very urban area that don't permit camping but where stealth opportunities are plentiful (but no, I haven't tried this yet...)

[Odd Man Out]

The funny thing about backpacking is that since I've gotten more into it I have started to look at typical urban features in terms of how they could provide shelter. There are some trails near my home in a very urban area that don't permit camping but where stealth opportunities are plentiful (but no, I haven't tried this yet...)

Sometimes when driving down the highway I see places where the median strip is very wide and heavily wooded and wonder if anyone ever goes in there. It's like a little mini "wilderness" in the middle of the highway. Of course you would need to watch that you don't become a Peterbuilt hood ornament on the way in.

[Tipi Walter]

Tipi, you rolled out some good entertainment for today.;)

Some other examples of stealth camping:

1) sleeping in a basball dug out through a hurricane

2) sleeping in ghost town's church or sheriff's office or hunter's cabin particularly and definitely so if No Trespassing Signs are in evidence
3) sleeping in a fully erected tent, hammock, or bivy behind the Interstate truck stop(ear plugs, nose clothes pin, and blindfold recommended)
4) in any bathroom, privy, or outhouse
5) in farm structures(barns, chicken coops, silos, etc), working farm structures definitely a no no
6) in the tunnel to nowhere, in the S. Kiabab Tr tunnel(you'll likely be stomped on by an irate early morning mule train not to mention having to contend with an irate livestock handler)
7) sleeping inside the back of a U-Haul moving van, a fire is a definite no no
8) under a roadway or train bridge
9) under or atop or within 100 ft of any arch in Arches NP or Red River Gorge
10) under a TH kiosk, under a NP or SP main entrance sign

Mining shacks, caves, rock shelters, at the base of waterfalls, on the edge of escarpments, abandoned buildings, etc possibly acceptable.

I like the way you guys think---seeing potential camps in urban features, under bridges, interstate medians etc etc. Let's enjoy the memories while we can before this thread is shut down.

I am afflicted with the Bad Night Disease whereby I can't seem to willingly sleep indoors, even here at home. In fact I just came inside after a frosty night on my Thermarest in the backyard where I "gotta keep my chops up". It's a peculiar need and desire to sleep outside no matter what, which brings us to stealth camping and camping in baseball dug outs etc as in Dogwood's post.

I remember spending many nights in a town cemetery behind a tombstone of a guy who lived from 1850 to 1952. Wow! Most of my sleeping was cowboy camping but I did on occasion put up my tent when it rained. Go in at night and come out near dawn.

Many nights I slept next to a small Episcopal church in a small NC mountain town under a giant maple tree which I ended up calling Oak Mother and the Dog (I like to give all my campsites names). The "dog" part happened when I'd wake up every night around 3am and find a stray black dog curled up next to me but he was gone by first light. I loved that guy. I also spent a whole winter cowboy camping next to a buttress of this church and figured a way to hide under a cedar tree and use an old boy scout bag to cover my North Face bag to keep the snow on top of the scout bag and off my Bigfoot bag.

Luckily most of my stealth camping was done in a mountain college town with a vast forest surrounding the town, so really all I had to do was leave town on foot in any direction and was soon inside the woods. I much prefer to stealth in the woods than under bridges or near Interstates or in big cities or under semi-trailers, if given a choice.

Some of the best stealth sites come when visiting friends and they invite you to stay overnight in the guest room. Instead you always find a spot outside on their decks or backyards at 0F and they think you're nuts but heck you have your pack and your pad and sleeping bag and it would be a waste of a great cold night to sleep inside. Notch one more bag night in the old pistol grip.

One time I caught a ride to California by way of Milwaukee and the guy driving offered to let me stay at his family's home. It was March and never got above 0F so I asked him if I could put my tent up in their backyard and freeze to death by choice. I put up my North Face Westwind tent near Lake Michigan and got my all important bag night. Cold.

Another time a hitch took me to Fort Campbell and an apartment complex where I slept on the deck of some "new" friends. Later I was in Greeley Colorado and stopped for the night in some guy's backyard but the terrible stink of cow S*** covered the town and ruined a bag night.

Several years ago I had to go to Greensboro NC and move my Mom out of her house and so I set up my Mt Hardwear Light Wedge tent and spent every single night for 3 months in the front yard. She lived near Battleground Avenue and so I had to use earplugs every night and endure 3 months of city smog and light pollution. It sucked but I got her moved eventually and the house sold.

Okay, enough of my stupid stories.

[Connie]

I stay "in shape" for camping, by keeping the thermostat at 65 F. It also helps me not get too chilled when I dress to go outside the house.

I also sleep with the window open, in the bedroom, if the air is fresh air.

I also open up my outdoor clothing, not allowing to get "too" warm.

I think this is healthy.

That said, I have met homeless people accustomed to sleeping outdoors, that are uncomfortable indoors. One msn explained, there is more oxygen from the bushes. He was near a city. He slept, he said, in the bushes near the freeway, where the air carried the smog from the traffic out the roadcut. He was entirely accurate: green plants, especially bushes and trees "make" oxygen. It is called photosynthesis.

Try an open window.

I have 18 square-inches open, starting because of a recommendation for structures heated with propane. I do not have propane, here, at the house. Nevertheless, I think fresh air is healthy.

Nevertheless, I selected a small "efficient" house, because over the years I became adjusted to a different set of values.


I do think "stealth" camping is a generic term for any campsite that is a Leave No Trace campsite, and, not a prepared campsite complete with a fire pit, etc.

[Slo-go'en]

I remember spending many nights in a town cemetery behind a tombstone of a guy who lived from 1850 to 1952. Wow! Most of my sleeping was cowboy camping but I did on occasion put up my tent when it rained. Go in at night and come out near dawn.

A friend of mine who hiked the "East Coast Greenway" (mostly rail to trail treadway) from Maine almost into NYC said she found camping in cemeteries was often the best option to be found along roads.


I stay "in shape" for camping, by keeping the thermostat at 65 F. It also helps me not get too chilled when I dress to go outside the house.

You got me beat by about 5 degrees. It's 60 at my desk right now, was 50 when I got up. If I close the door to my bedroom, which isn't heated, it will drop into the low 40's by morning and I find that a bit too cold. 50 is okay :)

[Connie]

I managed all winter with 50 F. I had wool-silk longjohns, and bibs, however. I did it, because I needed to spend much more time outside.

I like 65 F. It is a comfortable temperature.

More than that, I am "too warm".

In fact, I enter the house kept at 65 F I have to peel out of my outdoors clothing right away. It feels like a blast of heat at the door.

I think, this is not only backpacking experience. I think I have to do this, because Montana winter has severe cold. If I kept too warm, I don't think I would want to leave the house.

I think, I would be more subject to cold-injury.

[BaxterBear]

If you want entertaining stories of stealth camping talk to my friend Nimblewill Nomad. *laughs*

[High Side]

Sometimes when driving down the highway I see places where the median strip is very wide and heavily wooded and wonder if anyone ever goes in there. It's like a little mini "wilderness" in the middle of the highway. Of course you would need to watch that you don't become a Peterbuilt hood ornament on the way in.

I have had this exact thought. There has got to be places where you could camp for a long time and no one would ever know.

[Coffee]

I have had this exact thought. There has got to be places where you could camp for a long time and no one would ever know.

I've seen a surprising number of stealth camps while running on some local trails on fairly narrow greenbelts in the large urban area I call home. The homeless are masters of stealth camping.

[Sacchoromyces]

My only addition to this would be to "cowboy camp" if weather is not threatening. It makes for easier/quicker striking of campsite.

[Connie]

If anyone sees your used camping spot, it is not stealth camping.

[Jake2c]

One of the reasons I will use a hammock.

[Lauriep]

For the record, while dispersed camping may be legal on many parts of the A.T., there is nowhere it is particularly encouraged. The more heavily used an area is, the more important it is to concentrate use and stick to designated campsites and shelter sites.

Dispersed camping is most appropriate in remote areas with minimal use by those who are willing to take extra effort to minimize their impacts as described by others in this thread.

Stealth camping, in its intent to have as little impact as possible, is the essence of Leave No Trace.

When "stealth camping" is used in the sense of camping illegally, it is counter to Leave No Trace. Land managers set rules and regulations for good reasons. Without explanation, however, the differing regulations can sometimes seem arbitrary, but most are thoughtfully developed.

We have compiled a list of camping and fire rules along the A.T. in one PDF on our website here (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/docs/default-document-library/at_fires_and_camping_rules_inventory_5_28_2014_web .pdf?sfvrsn=0). There's more information about camping and shelters on our website at www.appalachiantrail.org/hiking/hiking-basics/camping-shelters (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/hiking/hiking-basics/camping-shelters).

If the sharp eyes on WhiteBlaze catch any errors or have questions, let me know.

Laurie P.

[Slo-go'en]

We have compiled a list of camping and fire rules along the A.T. in one PDF on our website here (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/docs/default-document-library/at_fires_and_camping_rules_inventory_5_28_2014_web .pdf?sfvrsn=0). There's more information about camping and shelters on our website at www.appalachiantrail.org/hiking/hiking-basics/camping-shelters (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/hiking/hiking-basics/camping-shelters).
Laurie P.

After seeing this, it seems the vast majority of tent sites one will find along the AT are technically illegal. Not that it stops anyone, especially the "I'll never camp at or near a shelter" group.

[NY HIKER 50]

I've only read some of this thread so if something I say was covered please excuse me. Now, I'm constantly annoyed by the folks always chiming in about stealth camping in certain areas is illegal. If you do bypass a shelter and wind up somewhere in the dark, you have to stop since you don't know what's ahead. The next few feet or miles may get you caught on a downhill slope. If you've been there before than it's no problem.

I've read in a few places that people tend to camp near water. I've got it down to a science that when I do find water I camel up as much as I can and if it's late I carry away three quarts. Then I camp for the night. I know this takes many of you out of your comfort zone but I've found it works. Less bugs, less of a chance to be bothered by animals (watching field mice run under the hammock is the exception), Oh, and I'm not a troll. Ive spent many years taking people into the woods and have all the experience.

When you tell them they are going to bear country or that they will get caught in the rain, they run!

[NY HIKER 50]

If I am at a dry camp I eat only no cook foods. Less water used until the next day. remember my comfort zone talk above?

[NY HIKER 50]

Oh, and if you do stealth camp, don't spend time dawdling. Take everything down first, make breakfast and get on the trail early. That way no one will expect that you spent the night there.

[Sarcasm the elf]

After seeing this, it seems the vast majority of tent sites one will find along the AT are technically illegal. Not that it stops anyone, especially the "I'll never camp at or near a shelter" group.

Speaking strictly of the sites I frequent in CT/MA/NY (areas where "designated campsite only" rules apply) I have found that many of the established sites are set up in a way that acts as a compromise between the shelter dwellers and those who wish to camp dispersed. A large number of the sites have official, maintained tent spots that are often hundreds of feet away from the shelter/picnic table area. While far from a wilderness experience, these sites offer a lot of piece and quiet relative to the shelters themselves. It's not a perfect solution but to me it appears obvious that the people who planned the sites were at least sensitive to the wishes of all users and were attempting to provide reasonably secluded options.

[swjohnsey]

Oh, and if you do stealth camp, don't spend time dawdling. Take everything down first, make breakfast and get on the trail early. That way no one will expect that you spent the night there.

Arrive late, leave early. I usually cook breakfast after I have moved down the trail a bit.

[kwhowell]

You are not allowed to stealth camp in Maryland either, you are correct.

[Wülfgang]

This concept of "stealth" camping is amusing to me. I'd never even heard of such a thing before I got interested in the AT.

Here in CO, outside of very high-use areas like RMNP and Indian Peaks, you just camp where you wanna camp.

And I like how there are all these unwritten 'rules' of stealth camping. Isn't the whole point to not be seen or caught??

[rickb]

If the sharp eyes on WhiteBlaze catch any errors or have questions, let me know.

Laurie P.

Laurie,

The restrictions listed for the White Mountains are not accurate. With some specifically enumerated exceptions, there is no blanket restriction requiring one camp 200' from trails EXCEPT in Wilderness areas.

As you know, the AT in the Whites actually lies outside of some of the Wilderness areas it skirts.

Similarly, there is no specific blanket regulation requiring one camp 200' from all water sources-- even those within wilderness areas.

Historically, some of those who love the Whites have sought to expand the actual regulations by informal communications (such as yours) either by design, or more often out of a genuine misunderstanding-- to have them conform with enlightened LNT thinking.

But I am not so sure that is a great idea.

RickB

[Del Q]

Selecting the right spot to tent can be tricky depending on where you are, in some places where maybe you should not tent, they do not make it easy to find stealth spots.

NO COOK mode helps a ton. As long as I have water to drink I can tent anywhere which to me adds a LOT to the overall experience.

Have had some amazing spots over the years and more to come next week I am sure.

[Freak on a Leash]

This concept of "stealth" camping is amusing to me. I'd never even heard of such a thing before I got interested in the AT.

Here in CO, outside of very high-use areas like RMNP and Indian Peaks, you just camp where you wanna camp.

And I like how there are all these unwritten 'rules' of stealth camping. Isn't the whole point to not be seen or caught??

Which is why I want to move out West.

I apply the K.I.S.S. rule when backpacking..set up later in the day, eat simple (no cooking) and get packed up early. I might linger afterwards and enjoy breakfast but anyone coming along early in the morning will just assume I'm an early riser. I leave no trace. In some cases it's cleaner than when I found it.

One reason I took up backpacking was to get AWAY from crowds and designated campsites with inconsiderate, loud people who keep me awake all hours of the night. Dispersed camping is my kind of camping. I usually go during the week and in the offseason as well.

[Rex Clifton]

There are too many freaking rules! I'm thinking of taking my lawyer along to advise me on whether its legal to camp or not. Somebody did an analysis once given all the federal, state and local laws and regulatioms, the average person commits at least one FELONY per month and several misdomeners a week.

[full conditions]

There are too many freaking rules! I'm thinking of taking my lawyer along to advise me on whether its legal to camp or not. Somebody did an analysis once given all the federal, state and local laws and regulatioms, the average person commits at least one FELONY per month and several misdomeners a week.
You're going to have to explain to me which felony I'm committing every week of the year. This has the appearance of nonsense.

[imscotty]

You're going to have to explain to me which felony I'm committing every week of the year. This has the appearance of nonsense.

I have not read it Fullconditions, but there is a book on the subject...

http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594035229

I myself try to be a good law abiding citizen, so I only commit one or two felonies a day that I know of. Just last night I accidentally pulled the tag off my pillow :)

[full conditions]

I have not read it Fullconditions, but there is a book on the subject...

http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594035229

I myself try to be a good law abiding citizen, so I only commit one or two felonies a day that I know of. Just last night I accidentally pulled the tag off my pillow :)
LOL Thanks Scotty. I may have inadvertently removed a mattress tab or two myself. So here's an excerpt from a favorable review from the linked book:

The product description of this book on amazon.com (the US site) starts by claiming that "The average professional in this country wakes up in the morning, goes to work, comes home, eats dinner, and then goes to sleep, unaware that he or she has likely committed several federal crimes that day". So I was keen to find out what crimes these might be, that ordinary people were unconsciously committing in such profusion. Sadly, that is something you cannot learn by reading this book. As far as I can ascertain, there is literally no mention of "three crimes a day" or anything similar on any of its pages, from the foreword by Alan M Dershowitz to the index.

[Traveler]

LOL Thanks Scotty. I may have inadvertently removed a mattress tab or two myself. So here's an excerpt from a favorable review from the linked book:

The product description of this book on amazon.com (the US site) starts by claiming that "The average professional in this country wakes up in the morning, goes to work, comes home, eats dinner, and then goes to sleep, unaware that he or she has likely committed several federal crimes that day". So I was keen to find out what crimes these might be, that ordinary people were unconsciously committing in such profusion. Sadly, that is something you cannot learn by reading this book. As far as I can ascertain, there is literally no mention of "three crimes a day" or anything similar on any of its pages, from the foreword by Alan M Dershowitz to the index.

I think thats a bit of hyperbole myself. I can see the point made using local or state laws, like turning left out of a parking lot and crossing the double yellow line (not legal in most states), hollywood stops at right turn on red or stop signs, or feeding wildlife with a bird feeding station. But the Mattress Police.... that tag thing is a Federal beef, getcha a nickel at Danbury.

[peakbagger]

Laurie,

The restrictions listed for the White Mountains are not accurate. With some specifically enumerated exceptions, there is no blanket restriction requiring one camp 200' from trails EXCEPT in Wilderness areas.

As you know, the AT in the Whites actually lies outside of some of the Wilderness areas it skirts.

Similarly, there is no specific blanket regulation requiring one camp 200' from all water sources-- even those within wilderness areas.

Historically, some of those who love the Whites have sought to expand the actual regulations by informal communications (such as yours) either by design, or more often out of a genuine misunderstanding-- to have them conform with enlightened LNT thinking.

But I am not so sure that is a great idea.

RickB

With respect to the whites, the only way to try to understand the rules is to read the linked brochure on the ATC site and have a highlighter and trail guide in hand as much of it does not apply to the AT. Unfortunately even if you read and understand the rules, the WMNF on occasion will close and post other locations that are outside of the restricted areas. This was done a few years back on a set of popular stealth locations on the west side of the Franconia Ridge Trail that are outside of the 1/4 mile restricted use area for Liberty. These closures were not posted anywhere except in the field. This area of the AT is somewhat strange as the rules are different one either side of the trail. There are a few other trailside stealth spots north of these posted sites but they are hit or miss and much of the terrain is dense spruce fir.

[rickb]

As always, Peakbagger is correct.

Last season I saw a sign (printed on WMNF letterhead no less) entering the Pemi which stated a blanket 200' from water rule applied in that wilderness area. Regulation by laser printer, but you have to respect what is posted.

I also see benefit in keeping things simple-- as they do in the AT guide books. That said, I do think an asterisk would be a good. If everyone keeps stating the same incomplete information over and over, it can become fan accepted "fact".

[Rex Clifton]

Full:

This is somewhat off topic, but over the last month or so, did you go to a bar or out to dinner and have 4-5 beers and then drive home? Even if you didn't think you were drunk, chances are you were over .08. How about something less obvious: did you buy something online and not pay sales tax? You are supposed to report that on your state tax return and pay a use tax on those goods. Even in states with no income tax, like Tennessee, you are required to file a form and pay the tax. Failure to do so is tax evasion, my friend. I could go on and on.

[Grampie]

You can camp most anywhere along the AT. Just walk 100" off the trail and set up your tent. Don't have a fire and break camp and leave early in the morning.

[BillyGr]

You can camp most anywhere along the AT. Just walk 100" off the trail and set up your tent. Don't have a fire and break camp and leave early in the morning.

Maybe a little farther would be recommended? ;) :-?

[mtntopper]

You can camp most anywhere along the AT. Just walk 100" off the trail and set up your tent. Don't have a fire and break camp and leave early in the morning.

There are places along the trail in Va. that stealth camping is not legal.

[swjohnsey]

I would never do anything illegal, never.

[Traveler]

You can camp most anywhere along the AT. Just walk 100" off the trail and set up your tent. Don't have a fire and break camp and leave early in the morning.

I presume this is a casual comment, as its not quite true. Despite the fact there are places along the trail that limit or regulate where one can camp, best practice has long been a minimum of 200' from the trail for camping or sanitation.

[swjohnsey]

Many, many place along the trail you couldn't get 200' off with a dozer.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Many, many place along the trail you couldn't get 200' off with a dozer.

How would they help?
http://www.henson.com/images/family/fragglerock/fr_char_doozers.jpg

[Traveler]

How would they help?
http://www.henson.com/images/family/fragglerock/fr_char_doozers.jpg

HAHA! The Krumholtz dozer

[tim.hiker]

Dogs are great to hike with but please don't stay at a shelter with them, plus no dogs are allowed in the Smokies tho, I love to hike with mine tho,

[Chumps Later]

I had the same question when looking at a 16 mile leg w/ 5500' elevation gain between designated sites - can I just find a spot and stop. Sounds like if the guidebook says "camping is permitted except where noted otherwise," I am good to go? A related question - once my body is broken in, does 16 miles and 5500' elevation take the 13 hours that I get with my 1.5 miles/hr plus half for each thousand feet rule? What is a long day?

[mtntopper]

I had the same question when looking at a 16 mile leg w/ 5500' elevation gain between designated sites - can I just find a spot and stop. Sounds like if the guidebook says "camping is permitted except where noted otherwise," I am good to go? A related question - once my body is broken in, does 16 miles and 5500' elevation take the 13 hours that I get with my 1.5 miles/hr plus half for each thousand feet rule? What is a long day?

No, just because a guide books says camping is permitted doesn't mean it is legal. The writers for the guide books do make mistakes and sometimes regulations change after the guide books are published. It is best to contact the appropriate agency for the correct regulations. You can also contact the ATC for additional information. As to your other question it depends on several factors as well. The terrain, the length of the climb the degree of the climb just to mention a few.

[Traveler]

I had the same question when looking at a 16 mile leg w/ 5500' elevation gain between designated sites - can I just find a spot and stop. Sounds like if the guidebook says "camping is permitted except where noted otherwise,"

Mtntopper is right. It is the responsibility of the camper to know the regulations for the area they are in for what prohibitions or regulations are in effect.

[wornoutboots]

Great Post!!!!! Normally a hundred or so yards before or after a stream or near a nice overlook you'll be able to find a "Soft Trail", a lightly used trail that can lead to fantastic spots! I'll drop my pack just off that initial trail & explore the area. This is how I always backpack & I have found some some beautiful spots. These rarely used spots are usually clean & serene! Try not to camp too close to the streams or the overlook/view points to scar the earth. Enjoy!

~Boots

[wornoutboots]

Also as you get farther up the trail & start hiking longer days, you're routine will be to camel up in the evening when you hit a stream then hike on as the confidence in your stealth hunting improves.

[wornoutboots]

Yup. For some reason it seems many AT hikers believe it's illegal, or use the term interchangeably. I wish they'd call it illegal camping, like some places in the Whites or where camping is restricted, what it is, illegal.

A example of illegal "Stealth" camping would be camping in Mt. Cammerer FT.

[Del Q]

Ever since the norovirus 2 years ago down south, I am pretty much done with shelters

Very happy in my lightweight, bug free, private tent

[gram cracker]

I'm pretty sure you can only stealth camp where it is illegal. Otherwise, it's called dispersed camping.

[Sarcasm the elf]

I'm pretty sure you can only stealth camp where it is illegal. Otherwise, it's called dispersed camping.

You can stealth camp anywhere that you can't be easily found. Some people like to imply it's illegal, but that's on them.

[imscotty]

Came across this article. Extreme Stealth camping...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/13/nyregion/13trees.html?_r=0

[HDLV]

I opt to stealth whenever possible. Shelters are ok in poor conditions but that's also when they are usually the most full.

[illabelle]

Came across this article. Extreme Stealth camping...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/13/nyregion/13trees.html?_r=0

Novel approach!