View Full Version : Where thru-hikers spend their nights
I accumulated a database of 240 completing NOBO thru-hikers logging very thorough journals at trailjournals.com for the Hiking Rates article I wrote here at Whiteblaze. I've looked through them again and found that I can use most of them to figure out exactly where these hikers are spending each night on their thru-hikes (using the "stats" section embedded in their journals). Here is a brief summary of what I found:
The mean number for each category of accommodation:
Shelters: 62 nights
Tents or hammocks: 53 nights
Motels: 23 nights
Hostels: 21 nights
Private homes: 9 nights
As you can see, on average these thru-hikers paid for lodging a mean 44 times. There is a pretty broad range, however. Even if you throw out the extremes (the 15% using the most and 15% using the least) the range is still 26 to 62 nights and is directly related to how many zero days hikers take. It seems like this would be useful information for those trying to plan a budget for their hikes.
55% of hikers spend more nights out on the trail in shelters than in tents or hammocks, but this varies in some groups of hikers. Couples hiking the trail are much more likely to tent than non-couples. Solo women and those under 30 are a little more likely to prefer sleeping in shelters than the "average" hiker. Also, in this study (from the year 2001 through 2010) hikers from the later years (2007-2010) were spending slightly fewer nights in shelters than hikers in the earlier years (2001 to 2004).
Some groups varied when it came to off-trail lodging as well. Couples spent close to 10 more nights in motels (and definitely preferred motels to hostels) than non-couples. Couples and folks aged 30 and over spent a greater percentage of nights in town (versus out on the trail) than average. Under 30s used paid lodging (motels or hostels) for close to 10 fewer nights than those 30 and over. Solo men and solo women, on the other hand, were very similar to each other when it came to the percentage of nights in town and the lodging they chose when they were there.
If you want more details just go to the last couple comments that I posted in the comments section for this article:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/content.php?44
Or read the article itself if you have questions about the data collection or are just interested in some statistical information about fairly typical completing NOBO thru-hikers.
WingedMonkey
07-19-2014, 11:17
Now we need a study comparing successful thru hikers who post to Trail Journals compared to successful thru hikers that don't.
;)
flemdawg1
07-19-2014, 12:02
Is a significant number of the over 30s going as couples?
Wow...I'm not saying I don't believe it (its actually very believable), I just find it surprising that people who want to thruhike the trail spend about 1/3 of their nites off the trail. During my thru attempt I was on the trail about 120 days and spent only 10 nites total between motels, hostels and private residences combined.
imscotty
07-19-2014, 13:03
Map Man does it again! Interesting data MapMan. I am curious about the outliers. Those at the most extreme of often or never staying off-trail?
Excellent work again, Map Man.
sympathetic joy
07-19-2014, 13:21
The way the data looks above it looks like sometimes people slept in tents, sometimes in hammocks, sometimes in shelters, and sometimes in town. But I'm pretty sure that pitchers and hangers are more or less mutually exclusive groups.
What if you broke the data into 2 groups - Pitchers (those who pitch a tent) and Hangers (those who hang a hammocks.)
Then looked at the same breakdown within those two groups. Then compared the two groups on those variables (shelters, motels, hostels, private homes) to see if there is a sig difference.
I'm thinking that those who use tents stay in shelters more often than those who use hammocks.
rocketsocks
07-19-2014, 13:30
Nuttin' like a good Stat!
Is a significant number of the over 30s going as couples?
No. For this "where they spend their nights" part of the study I've got 117 hiker journals who are 30 or over and only 15 of those journals are for couples.
Wow...I'm not saying I don't believe it (its actually very believable), I just find it surprising that people who want to thruhike the trail spend about 1/3 of their nites off the trail. During my thru attempt I was on the trail about 120 days and spent only 10 nites total between motels, hostels and private residences combined.
When I first started looking into this some years ago this (percentage of nights in town) was a surprise to me too. I suspect it would come as a surprise to a lot prospective thru-hikers in planning mode, too. When I see proposed budgets here on Whiteblaze I think many underestimate how many nights they will be paying for lodging. Your own experience of just 10 nights in town out of 120 total nights is unusual, I think.
Map Man does it again! Interesting data MapMan. I am curious about the outliers. Those at the most extreme of often or never staying off-trail?
Three hikers in the study spent 15 days or fewer in motels/hostels/homes (the fewest was 10) and all three of them took less than four months to complete their hikes. Quicker hikers tend to spend a lower percentage of time in town -- no surprise. Three hikers had over 100 nights away from trail. One of these guys (a well-known hiker with many thru-hikes under his belt) was the outlier of outliers -- he took a break part way along to ride his bicycle all the way across the country and then came back and picked up where he left off and completed his calendar year thru-hike in 282 days with 174 nights off trail!
The way the data looks above it looks like sometimes people slept in tents, sometimes in hammocks, sometimes in shelters, and sometimes in town. But I'm pretty sure that pitchers and hangers are more or less mutually exclusive groups.
What if you broke the data into 2 groups - Pitchers (those who pitch a tent) and Hangers (those who hang a hammocks.)
Then looked at the same breakdown within those two groups. Then compared the two groups on those variables (shelters, motels, hostels, private homes) to see if there is a sig difference.
I'm thinking that those who use tents stay in shelters more often than those who use hammocks.
I can't compare the two groups because the number of hikers in this study who spent most of their trail nights in hammocks (rather than tents) is so small -- I can count them on one hand. That's why I counted the two groups together (along with the rare nights cowboy camping). I see hammockers out on the trail but not in anywhere near the percentages that are found on-line on trail forums.;)
On the AT it is easy to retreat to a town due to the common rainy weather. I can see why many hikers spend more time in town than planned, but towns are a time and money drain. Even staying in a hostel, going into a town is a pretty sure way to part with $75-100 after paying for lodging, food, drinks (for some), etc...
Ricky&Jack
07-19-2014, 16:00
Motels: 23 nights
Hostels: 21 nights
Motels are more popular than Hostels?
For those here who have completed a Thu (Or a attempted a large portion): Did you really use motels more often that hostels?
**UPDATE** Well I guess that may be because almost every town has a motel, and not every town has a hostel.
I have only section hiked but hostels are a much better value plus you get to meet other hikers. I'm not a very social person normally but given the option of paying $25 for a hostel and meeting interesting people or $50-75 for a (usually) shabby motel room where I'll just sit inside watching TV, the choice isn't a hard one. The privacy is obviously greater in a motel but I've found that this isn't a big issue for me.
flemdawg1
07-19-2014, 16:18
Motels are more popular than Hostels?
For those here who have completed a Thu (Or a attempted a large portion): Did you really use motels more often that hostels?
**UPDATE** Well I guess that may be because almost every town has a motel, and not every town has a hostel.
There are probably just a bunch of towns without hostels, and some people (myself) prefer private hotel rooms to hostels. And where you can split a room or share a room as a couple the price isn't that bad compared to most hostel rates. Some hostels are just shelters with showers and mattresses.
Scenario a: Townville, has a hostel for $20 but no laundry included, or you can split a $60 room 2 or 3 ways. There's a washer and dryer onsite also and no rules in the hotel against drinking & smoking (you happen to like both). Alot of folks pick the hotel.
I did one last calculation, this time looking at how many hikers had a really marked preference for shelters over tents/hammocks, and vice versa. Around 35% of hikers in the study spent at least two-thirds of their on-trail nights in shelters instead of setting up their own tent or hammock -- a marked preference. Around 20% spent at least two-thirds of their trail nights in tents or hammocks. The other 45% were in between.
Is there anyway to gauge the mean time between town lodging nights? Just curious.
Thanks for the good analysis.
Wayne
Sent from somewhere around here.
Is there anyway to gauge the mean time between town lodging nights? Just curious.
Thanks for the good analysis.
This will be a real seat-of-the-pants estimate. The total number of town nights is 53.0. But some of these nights are consecutive nights in one place because of zero days. So if we subtract the 20.7 mean zero days for hikers in the study, that would leave 32.3 discreet different places for overnight "town" stays . The average thru-hike time for hikers in the study is 168.8 days. So take that number and divide it by the 32.3 "town" stays and we get one off-trail overnight stop for every 5.2 days of a thru-hike.
This is not the same as saying people resupply every 5.2 days because sometimes people resupply without accompanying it with an overnight stay. And theoretically hikers also might not resupply every time they overnight off trail.
Odd Man Out
07-22-2014, 23:47
If a person slept in a tent adjacent to a shelter, did that count as staying at the shelter?
If a person slept in a tent adjacent to a shelter, did that count as staying at the shelter?
I believe that journalists tend to label that circumstance as a "tent" night when logging their info for each day at Trailjournals.
Slo-go'en
07-23-2014, 00:42
I did one last calculation, this time looking at how many hikers had a really marked preference for shelters over tents/hammocks, and vice versa. Around 35% of hikers in the study spent at least two-thirds of their on-trail nights in shelters instead of setting up their own tent or hammock -- a marked preference. Around 20% spent at least two-thirds of their trail nights in tents or hammocks. The other 45% were in between.
I think if you figured out in what sections hikers prefer to tent vs shelter, I think you would find tents are more commonly used in the southern sections of trail and shelters more common in the northern sections. Many hikers start out staying in their tent early on when the trail is crowded, and then slowly drift into shelters as the herd thins out.
Motels are more popular than Hostels?
For those here who have completed a Thu (Or a attempted a large portion): Did you really use motels more often that hostels?
**UPDATE** Well I guess that may be because almost every town has a motel, and not every town has a hostel.
Yes i deffinatly prefer a motel/hotel over a hostel, Motels offer way more privacy and most of them are close to other services while hostels are usually out of town and you have to pay for a shuttle and plus you always got someone in your face.
on all three of my thru's 80% of the time if i spent a night in town it was at a Motel/hotel.
rocketsocks
07-23-2014, 15:41
What stands out for me in this study is the total number of "bag nights" be it tent, shelter, tarp or cowboy camping vs. hotel/motel/hostel. I think I'd much prefer campin' out when campin' out.
I was watching Youtube AT Videos on Sara Dhooma page and she took a poll and she reported that most hikers this year says in order for a person to have a nice comfortable hike you need to budget around a $1000 a month, I think that is a little outrageous.
Personnaly i still say if you budget around 5-6000 and thats gear and EVERYTHING you should be fine.
rocketsocks
07-23-2014, 15:47
What stands out for me in this study is the total number of "bag nights" be it tent, shelter, tarp or cowboy camping vs. hotel/motel/hostel. I think I'd much prefer campin' out when campin' out.I exclude staying with friends from the Hotel/Motel/Hostel category, cause lets face it, if your in a town and your friends live near it's nice to go see friends.
I just wished that a thru-hiker thats on the trail this year would come on WB after their hike with their TOTAL expense for each town weather they stayed in a Hostel or hotel with their gear expenses and transportation and anything else they spent money on so we can finally put this trail budget topic to REST.
When i was on the trail during each of my thru's i tend to let the weather dictate where i stayed if it was rainning or looked like it was going to rain i stayed in the shelters if it was nice i stayed in my tent and during the warm summer months i preffered to cowboy camp. I feel that most hikers does the same
I don't understand how this survey is going to help people plan their thru-hike budget cause the only place you spend money is in towns i don't think i spent any money on the trail unless i was in AMC territory.
I think it would be best if we had a survey to see how much hikers spend in each town, i think that would serve hikers best when they are planning their thru-hike budget.
I really don't understand the purpose of this survey did Mapman get bored or what?
Starchild
07-23-2014, 17:41
Wow...I'm not saying I don't believe it (its actually very believable), I just find it surprising that people who want to thruhike the trail spend about 1/3 of their nites off the trail. During my thru attempt I was on the trail about 120 days and spent only 10 nites total between motels, hostels and private residences combined.
Is really 'off trail' if they are staying in a officially ATC recognized "AT Community", or is that part of the trail and the journey.
rocketsocks
07-23-2014, 21:10
Is really 'off trail' if they are staying in a officially ATC recognized "AT Community", or is that part of the trail and the journey.hmmm, good point Starchild.
rocketsocks
07-23-2014, 21:13
hmmm, good point Starchild.definitely part of the journey, just not in the woods...makes not a hill of beans to me, just interpreting the stats.
I think if you figured out in what sections hikers prefer to tent vs shelter, I think you would find tents are more commonly used in the southern sections of trail and shelters more common in the northern sections. Many hikers start out staying in their tent early on when the trail is crowded, and then slowly drift into shelters as the herd thins out.
I suspect you are right. I hear there aren't as many decent places to pitch a tent up north, as well.
Map man, I need your email..... im going to forward you my college stats homework lol, im sure you will enjoy it. its due Monday so no rush
CarlZ993
07-23-2014, 21:52
Great data, Mapman. Got me to look over my 2013 hike & tabulate my totals. Boy, did I stay off the trail a lot.
Shelters = 74 nights
Tenting = 14 nights
Hostel = 36 nights
Motel = 27 nights
Total = 151 nights on the trail (not counting the night prior... which was in a hostel)
Note: Had 12 zeros. No zeros in shelters or tenting.
As my hike went on, I starting writing in the shelter journals that I was starting to spend my Grandkids inheritance by spending more nights in town. :)
This will be a real seat-of-the-pants estimate. The total number of town nights is 53.0. But some of these nights are consecutive nights in one place because of zero days. So if we subtract the 20.7 mean zero days for hikers in the study, that would leave 32.3 discreet different places for overnight "town" stays . The average thru-hike time for hikers in the study is 168.8 days. So take that number and divide it by the 32.3 "town" stays and we get one off-trail overnight stop for every 5.2 days of a thru-hike.
These numbers got me to wondering how often seeking lodging off trail ended up turning into a zero day (or days) for thru-hikers in the study. The way I have zero days recorded made it pretty easy for me to figure out that the number of mean "zero day episodes" (counting times when two or more consecutive zero days were taken as one "episode") was 12.2 for the typical hiker. Considering that there are 32.3 discreet lodging stays per thru-hike, that means that typical hikers will turn a lodging stay into at least one zero day about 38% of the time.
Considering that 20.7 is the average number of zero days, people on a tight budget or with time constraints could take "zero day episodes" just as frequently as the average thru-hiker but cut around 8.5 days from their hike by avoiding taking consecutive zero days -- yes, bravely escaping the town "vortex.":rolleyes:
I suspect you are right. I hear there aren't as many decent places to pitch a tent up north, as well.
Great work Mapman. Tenting up north is no problem, just have to be creative sometimes.
Mykneeshurt
07-27-2014, 06:40
I kept an OCD-like record of my 2013 thru, because (please, no arguments about technology on the Trail...I didn't carry a phone!) my IPod Touch, an amazing 3.2 oz invention, had a Notes app. Every night (have already admitted I am a bit OCD) I took about 3 minutes and recorded where I started, stopped, and slept. This summer (2014) it has been fun to pull it out and remember where I was one year ago. I am surprised at how many hostels and cheap motels I stayed at. While planning, I was all "in the woods" mode, but have to admit I took advantage, more than I suspected I would, to catch a shower/bed/meal. I am retired, and had saved for years for the trip...if money was more an issue, I like to think I could have sucked it up and stayed more in my very comfortable tent. (I did turn 60 on the hike, not an excuse, but am sure that accounted for taking advantage of creature comforts as much as I did).
bamboo bob
07-27-2014, 07:31
It's often cheaper to split a motel room with hiker friends than stay in a hostel. Either way a motel is usually a better place for a good night sleep and and down time rest. Older hikers (over 50) simply have more money to spend on meals and motels so that might be considered. In 2002 I took four zero days 4/4-9/7 and starting date is important. March starters get out of the weather a lot.
Great data analysis! Looks like you really know your way around the math.
Hikers that write that they are going into the "Wilderness" to find themselves should study what you are saying.
I just looked at the stats page on my 2011 TJ. It shows I took 16 zeros but 8 of those were for an injury. I'm wondering if that is the reason for the higher than anticipated average number of zeros, especially for the older hikers.
rocketsocks
07-27-2014, 08:36
I kept an OCD-like record of my 2013 thru, because (please, no arguments about technology on the Trail...I didn't carry a phone!) my IPod Touch, an amazing 3.2 oz invention, had a Notes app. Every night (have already admitted I am a bit OCD) I took about 3 minutes and recorded where I started, stopped, and slept. This summer (2014) it has been fun to pull it out and remember where I was one year ago. I am surprised at how many hostels and cheap motels I stayed at. While planning, I was all "in the woods" mode, but have to admit I took advantage, more than I suspected I would, to catch a shower/bed/meal. I am retired, and had saved for years for the trip...if money was more an issue, I like to think I could have sucked it up and stayed more in my very comfortable tent. (I did turn 60 on the hike, not an excuse, but am sure that accounted for taking advantage of creature comforts as much as I did).
My knees hurt too ;) you make a good point. Needing some perhaps recuperative time for joints to rest as we get older seems more and more important to me.
Map Man- What would be interesting also (and maybe you did already and I just missed it) is if the study showed the ages of those that laid up longer to differentiate...I'd be curious anyway.
Mykneeshurt-I love my ipod too, neat little invention indeed, and the memo feature I use everyday.
rocketsocks
07-27-2014, 08:42
I just looked at the stats page on my 2011 TJ. It shows I took 16 zeros but 8 of those were for an injury. I'm wondering if that is the reason for the higher than anticipated average number of zeros, especially for the older hikers.Wow, you were reading my mind...or maybe I was reading yours, either pretty spooky.:D
ChefATLTCT
07-27-2014, 08:51
In 2000 I only slept in two shelters , one in SNP, the ridge runner made us fill the shelter up before he allowed tents, and Peru peak in VT, the only wooden tent platform was under water. There were not as many hostels in 2000 as there is now, Some future hostels were started by 2000 alumni. I can only remember staying at the Place in VA and even then i tented outside . I was a hotel motel guy.
bamboo bob
07-27-2014, 08:53
Hikers that write that they are going into the "Wilderness" to find themselves should study what you are saying.
LOL. The AT "wilderness" is never more than an hour from Walmart! And I love it for being what it is.
Most of my nights in 78 were either cowboy or in a tent. Zero Hotels. More than one non official shelter.
A few years ago, at the request of a friend, I totted up the indoor vs. outdoor nights during my 2006 SOBO. It was just about even--half in a hostel, motel, or friend's house, and half in tent or shelter. In Maine and NH and much of Vermont I almost always tented. Bugs and crowds being the reason. After passing the last of the NOBOs in Vermont, shelter space was almost always readily available. From Virginia south, I frequently had the shelter to myself, or shared with one or two other hikers.
The AT is often such a wet trail--the lure of roofed structures and artificial heat to dry things out becomes very strong. It's not like California, where you can rinse out your clothing and it's dry in 30 minutes, and spread out your tent and sleeping bag to get them bone dry before you've finished your snack.
This thread is really interesting.
I'm planning to attempt a thru next March - I hope I don't spend half my nights in doors!
When I was camping as a boy, we built fires to warm and dry ourselves (esp in winter), but I've never done it as an adult hiker.
Sadly, without regular campfires and with an early March start, I'll probably end up indoors quite a bit, just like everyone else!
Rolls Kanardly
07-30-2014, 12:24
So with 53 days in a hotel, a hostel, or a private home how much is spent in sleeping quarters off the trail?
$1,500.00 or so?????
Rolls
Probably - apparently as a middle aged hiker with a career, I'm more likely to slack and stay in hotels. I mean I pay $1800 a month for health insurance for me and my family. Hotels and hostels aren't going to make a financial dent...
Even if I took all of my zero days at $200 a night in a normal business hotel - the cost would be like 4K over six months. I'm not planning to do that, but it's just not that much money.
Likeapuma
07-30-2014, 12:31
Even if I took all of my zero days at $200 a night in a normal business hotel - the cost would be like 4K over six months. I'm not planning to do that, but it's just not that much money.
Are you looking to adopt any grown children?
My employees sometimes fill that role... :)
Fun to read the hiker blogs during the prehike phase. "I want a totally wilderness experience" is a common theme, soon modified by the realities of trail life.
I've accepted that. Actually, the trail itself combined with the myriad hikers makes each experience unique. I've convinced myself that is part of the charm.
jersey joe
07-30-2014, 13:05
Three hikers in the study spent 15 days or fewer in motels/hostels/homes (the fewest was 10) and all three of them took less than four months to complete their hikes.
Great job with these stats Map Man. Very interesting.
I believe I'm one of those three...I certainly felt like an outlier during my hike.
I vividly recall raising an eyebrow when most of the people I stayed with on Blood Mtn. got a room 3 miles later at 10 AM in Neels Gap after only 3 days on the trail.
Total Number of Hiking Days
111
Average Miles per Day
19.86
Average Miles per Hiking Day
19.86
Number of nights in a Shelter
85
Number of nights in a Tent
15
Number of nights in a Hammock
0
Number of nights Under the Stars
0
Number of nights in a Hotel
4
Number of nights in a Hostel
3
Number of nights in a House
4
Jersey Joe: that is great! The profile of your hike is what I'm looking for. Thanks for posting it.
Rolls Kanardly
07-30-2014, 13:24
Probably - apparently as a middle aged hiker with a career, I'm more likely to slack and stay in hotels. I mean I pay $1800 a month for health insurance for me and my family. Hotels and hostels aren't going to make a financial dent...
Not for me either. I was just trying to broaden the use of the data for those on a tight budget. Rolls
Since I'm hiking mid-life, after getting established, I'm planning on doing some of my own "trail angel" work as part of my hike.
jersey joe
07-30-2014, 14:23
Jersey Joe: that is great! The profile of your hike is what I'm looking for. Thanks for posting it.
The full profile of my hike, from trailjournals, is here: http://trailjournals.com/stats.cfm?trailname=1743
I believe I'm one of those three...I certainly felt like an outlier during my hike.
You indeed were one of the three. In fact, your journal was the only journal I was able to use for the study that chronicled a hike with ZERO zero days. An outlier indeed!
(Edit: I've enjoyed all the questions about my findings. If you ask a question in the next couple weeks, though, it will be a while before I get to it. I will be hiking in the San Juan Mountains in Colorado for the next two weeks and won't be checking the internet.)
Ruffdude
01-17-2015, 09:55
The full profile of my hike, from trailjournals, is here: http://trailjournals.com/stats.cfm?trailname=1743
Great stats Joe! Your pack weight, wow! ultralighters are rolling over in their ........:-)
This is a great thread for an upcoming thru attempt and I wanted to revive it.
Thanks also to map man for his great data compilation.
Fireonwindcsr
01-17-2015, 22:08
Somebody paid attention in that "stat" course. Great work. I never considered logging my daily lodging numbers because I thought I would primarily be on the trail. This thread has me thinking differently. Some good data can be pulled from recording the hike. Thanks Mr Map
So much for that AT "wilderness" experience with those means. Seems AT thru-hikers define their wilderness experience as being under a hard roof or enclosed in silny each night. Obviously, the building to building to building thru-hike is still alive and doing very well indeed on the AT.
Another Kevin
01-18-2015, 11:14
So much for that AT "wilderness" experience with those means. Seems AT thru-hikers define their wilderness experience as being under a hard roof or enclosed in silny each night. Obviously, the building to building to building thru-hike is still alive and doing very well indeed on the AT.
Sleeping under the stars sounds romantic, but there are very few nights where both weather and bugs allow for it. It seems that I always want a rainfly, a bugnet, or both.
I love the wilderness, in small doses. (Remember that I'm a weekender.) But I don't go to the A-T to find it. A bushwack in the Catskills or Adirondacks is more my idea of "wilderness experience." But the vision of the A-T has always been "back to nature for the urban masses." It's never truly been wilderness. In fact, it's probably closer to wilderness today than it's ever been, thanks to decades of land protection. The old poops can remember hiking across recently logged tracts. I can remember areas of Harriman that still looked like industrial wasteland half a century ago - and truly were industrial wasteland not too many years before that. Even now, the ghost towns and abandoned mines make for interesting side trips.