View Full Version : Where to bear bag, where to not?
squeezebox
07-21-2014, 07:49
Where along the AT do you think one should bear bag, and where is it unnecessary. I'ld think Pa would be unnecessary, and GSMNP a strong should.
I realize there are the "I never bear bag folks" , and the "I bear bag when I sleep in my back yard types."
So where are you along this continuum?
Mice and other varmits are included in the question.
Thanks for your opinion.
kayak karl
07-21-2014, 07:55
I've only seen bear in Pa.
Stay out of shelters and your problems are solved.
squeezebox
07-21-2014, 07:55
Where along the AT do you think one should bear bag, and where is it unnecessary. I'ld think Pa would be unnecessary, and GSMNP a strong should.
I realize there are the "I never bear bag folks" , and the "I bear bag when I sleep in my back yard types."
So where are you along this continuum?
Mice and other varmits are included in the question.
Thanks for your opinion.
I make an effort to hang food when camping anywhere withing Shenandoah National Park and I'm not near a shelter with a bear pole. I will only bear bag if I can do it properly. In one case this April, I made a decision to sleep with my food since I couldn't achieve a reasonable hang. I did have opsaks and I was camped in an area where few people camp so I felt OK about it.
I will be hanging food on the Colorado Trail where practical and sleeping with my food if above treeline or in a place where a proper hang isn't possible.
On the JMT last year, I used a Bearikade canister.
I have had bear in my camp during the night in Georgia, Tenn/NC, Virginia, and PA. Also in several other states not along the AT. Never had anything taken, other than a trash bag in PA (while at a developed campground). Add to that list that I have seen bear within a mile or so of my camp many times in these same states as well as in NJ. Yeah, I see plenty of bear while hiking, probably at least 30% of the trips I take. I attribute that to normally hiking alone, starting fairly early in the day, and hiking quietly.
I usually hang my food properly when in active bear areas. If no recent reports of bear activity, or no obvious signs like claw marks, scat, etc. then I may not. I often do not bear bag food at shelters unless cables/poles are there. I always use bear boxes when they are in place. I figure the clubs wouldn't have gone to the bother and expense to install these things unless there were a reason. Cables do not protect your food from squirrels - personal experience.
I do always use the mouse hangers at shelters for the obvious reasons. I figure with a shelter full of people, most bear will not even attempt to steal food from an occupied shelter - the mice and other small critters are less cautious. If I am sharing a shelter with other folks who wish to bear bag their food, I try to discern if they are doing so just to protect their food, or if they are entirely afraid of bears entering the shelter. I will hang my food if others seem to want that - go with the flow.
It's a good idea to hang your food every night, but actually the only time i hang my food is when i stay at a shelter if i use my tent ( which is most of the time ) I sleep with it, the only reason i hang at shelters is most folks that stay at shelters are Newbies and they get real nervous when they see some one trying to sleep with their food bag, the only animal that gives me problems is the DARN shelter mice and thats the main reason i don't use shelters.
IMHO there is no place on the AT that I would think "needs" bear hanging more than another with the possible exception of GSMNP. PA for example has plenty of bears, saw a huge bear killed during opening day of bear season last year less than a mile from the Rausch Gap shelter. I sometimes will hang, more to get a better night sleep than anything else. I am more concerned about smaller critters scampering about and waking me than I am with a bear.
HooKooDooKu
07-21-2014, 10:21
...GSMNP a strong should...
In GSMNP, hanging food is REQUIRED... but then again, every campsite in GSMNP is equipped with bear cables.
While not a common occurrence, some bears have learned that if they shake the bear cables, they can sometimes bounce bags off the hooks. So you might want to include a carabiner to hook your food bag to the wire loop rather than simply hang the bag from the bear cable hooks.
Lone Wolf
07-21-2014, 12:40
I realize there are the "I never bear bag folks" , and the "I bear bag when I sleep in my back yard types."
So where are you along this continuum?
.
i'm the former. never bear bag anywhere
hilltackler
07-21-2014, 12:52
very interesting...I'm a little surprised by the amount of "non -hanging" campers. But live and let live is my motto. For what it's worth, I usually always bear bag for a couple reasons. First, I sleep better and and second it would suck to be in the middle of a trip and have a bear or other critters steal part or all of my food. Let them carry their own food!
very interesting...I'm a little surprised by the amount of "non -hanging" campers. But live and let live is my motto. For what it's worth, I usually always bear bag for a couple reasons. First, I sleep better and and second it would suck to be in the middle of a trip and have a bear or other critters steal part or all of my food. Let them carry their own food!
Sometimes I feel like those goals do not coincide exactly. I always sleep better if my food isn't with me, but I feel like many times my food is safer with me than if poorly hung. So sometimes a less restful night is the price paid to protect food adequately. Once this spring, I hung my food and pondered how well it was hung for a while and then took it down and brought it into my tent with me. Part of this no doubt is related to my relative inexperience with hanging food. The PCT method is great but it takes some practice to get it right.
hilltackler
07-21-2014, 13:20
I've spent a fair amount of time on the trail and I can say I have never had my food taken down by any critters or bears for that matter. I do my best to just hang it properly and that usually works fine. I use the regular method not the PCT method. Every once and while I won't be able to do a great hang. In that case I just hope for the best and leave it there - better there than in my tent. Guess I've been lucky. And I hope I didn't just jinx myself!
88BlueGT
07-21-2014, 13:45
I hang my food no matter where I am; just makes things easy and much more safe... regardless of what you think the bear population is.
leatherwheels
07-21-2014, 15:02
I can't speak to all the campsites in MA, but the ones I stayed at in July of last year between Sheffield and Washington, MA all had bear boxes to put your food bag in. These included Tom Leanord Lean-To, Shaker Campsite, Upper Goose Creek Pond Cabin, and October Mountain Lean-To.
peakbagger
07-21-2014, 17:53
All of the AT shelters and campsites in the whites (and many of the more popular campsites off the AT) have had to add bear boxes in the last couple of years due to persistent bear issues. Many of these shelters are quite high up on the ridge but this does not stop the bears. At some locations the bears have become so aggressive that there are designated cooking locations away from the tenting area.
Sometimes I feel like those goals do not coincide exactly. I always sleep better if my food isn't with me, but I feel like many times my food is safer with me than if poorly hung. So sometimes a less restful night is the price paid to protect food adequately. Once this spring, I hung my food and pondered how well it was hung for a while and then took it down and brought it into my tent with me. Part of this no doubt is related to my relative inexperience with hanging food. The PCT method is great but it takes some practice to get it right.
Always felt better sleeping with my food than not. Have experienced a couple of times when waking in the morning a hikers hung food was missing from the cables, did'nt know who...or what procured during the night.
There are more than a few stories of tent backpackers on the AT who having awakened, presumably from a good night’s sleep, to find that their food bag has been removed from a tree by a bear or torn open by some other critter. I am still waiting to read the report of a black bear entering into an occupied tent on the AT and attacking the sleeping backpacker for his food. I avoid shelters and sites around shelters and sleep with my food in an odor reducing Opsak. (Fill free to insert the usual non-sequitur drug-sniffing dog comment here.) Speaking of forms of logic, I continue to amazed by the lack of logic of those who crawl into a tent at night with their food-odor emitting clothes, hair, backpack, sleeping bag, etc., yet hang their food bag in the middle of nowhere from a tree – and emit more food odors from their tent than I do while I sleep safe and sound all by myself with my food next to me. I don’t really care if others want to be illogical, except (a) don’t ask me to be, and (b) in some areas (e.g., North Georgia) hanging bags in trees appears to have resulted in increased bear assertiveness, endangering the bears’ lives. I wonder (but do not know), if a mandatory sleep with your food requirement on the problem section of the AT in North Georgia would have prevented the need for the canister rule. Too many people are not going to make bear-proof hangs from trees, and smart Georgia bears have figured this out.
DrRichardCranium
07-21-2014, 23:56
Steel bear boxes would be great, except for all the tourons who use them as a dumpster & expect Someone Else to haul out their trash.
rocketsocks
07-22-2014, 00:20
I am still waiting to read the report of a black bear entering into an occupied tent on the AT and attacking the sleeping backpacker for his food.
I'd sure like to see that stat as well...is there one? I mean are there some?
DrRichardCranium
07-22-2014, 01:36
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?93794-bear-advice&p=1449235&highlight=watauga#post1449235
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?93794-bear-advice&p=1449235&highlight=watauga#post1449235
Be sure to read the discussion in the posts that follow the above link. Particularly #96.
Sarcasm the elf
07-22-2014, 13:11
Steel bear boxes would be great, except for all the tourons who use them as a dumpster & expect Someone Else to haul out their trash.
We have them at most shelters in MA, CT, NJ and some in NY. They work great and for the most part the only boxes I've seen filled with trash are the ones that are at shelters built close to road crossings.
Never bear bag unless at a designated camp site with bear cables or a pole.
CarlZ993
07-22-2014, 23:01
There are numerous animals that will eat your food if given the chance. A chipmunk ate thru my buddy's $400 tent to get to some trail mix he had inside. I try to secure my food based on the threat of food loss in the area. When in doubt, take more precaution. An oz of prevention is better than a pound of cure.
HooKooDooKu
07-23-2014, 01:21
When in doubt, take more precaution. An oz of prevention is better than a pound of cure.
But the debate seems to be about what is the oz of prevention?
Some seem to think keeping food in there tent prevents theft because animals are less likely to come into their tent.
But clearly they are wrong in that that doesn't always work.
Some seem to think hanging food prevents theft. But if hanging by string in a tree (even the PCT method) bears can find a way to get at the food (such as jumping from a tree and catching the bag, part of the string, or simply knocking down the limb). Hang it from bear cables, and mice can still climb up the cables.
There seems to be no practical solution that always works in all situations.
There are numerous animals that will eat your food if given the chance. A chipmunk ate thru my buddy's $400 tent to get to some trail mix he had inside. I try to secure my food based on the threat of food loss in the area. When in doubt, take more precaution. An oz of prevention is better than a pound of cure.
Many years ago in the Smokeys, we took a side trail off the AT @ 1/2 mile to camp for the night. Slept with the food but placed a small bag of m&m's in the crook of a tree short distance down trail. The next morning woke fixed coffee and went to get CHOCOLATE for brekfas. Found the bag still nestled in the crook with small hole in one corner, empty, very delicate extraction during the night!
SawnieRobertson
07-24-2014, 13:09
We are having increasing sightings of bears between the river road (VA 670) and Partnership Shelter. They come into our yards, particularly at night, to make sure that all of our apple trees are clear of any apples within reach.
They enjoy walking undetected when our corn fields are full grown. IOW, they certainly are not starving but do seem to be less wary of us.
The best method to use if you want to keep bears and other such animals out of your food, is simply use a Bear Cannister of some kind, in my oppinion if a animal is hungry enough he/she will go to whatever lengths it has to in order to get the food, no matter how you store your food weather you hang it by using a string " PCT method" bear cables, sleep with it " which is the way i go most nights " or even a bear cannister, the best system i have seen through out my years as a hiker is the system the SNP uses. which is a steel pole about 20ft tall with hooks on the top. but still if the animal is hungry enough it could probably get to those too.
saltysack
07-24-2014, 17:02
Bring along a well behaved k 9...no besrs
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Probable everywhere, and hang it correctly... Here's a tidbit from a hiker I've been following... Skip to 11:00 for the bear part.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4GWf2iDHy8&list=UUvH74o_nCB_khVxXJzrEJWw
Probable everywhere, and hang it correctly... Here's a tidbit from a hiker I've been following... Skip to 11:00 for the bear part.
I don't understand why he hung his entire pack, apparently with a food bag inside the pack. I've got to think that he would have been way better off with the pack inside his tent with just his food hung. At least his pack wouldn't have been destroyed.
Sarcasm the elf
07-24-2014, 17:37
Bring along a well behaved k 9...no besrs
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I frequently use this method, for some reason bears are terrified of a 35lb border collie mix.
saltysack
07-24-2014, 22:31
My 20lb jrt is a bear killer!!! They would choke on him...With him I have never seen a mouse or a bear at a shelter or tent anywhere....
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