GSMNP In November

[Gambit McCrae]

I am planning to start at Cades Cove, up to russel Field Shelter, north to Davenport Gap. Thanksgiving weekend(Thur-Sun).

Questions:

Any snow up there yet?
Still fall leaves in the trees?
Bears sleeping yet?
population through that area in November?
Nightly Tempts through there?
What is the difficulty of the smokies north of Russel field? Only part ive done is from Fontana up to russel field and I found it tough. Does it become more enjoyable after Russel Field Shelter?

[flemdawg1]

Any snow up there yet? Very Possible
Still fall leaves in the trees? Any snow up there yet?
Still fall leaves in the trees? Doubtful, usually gone by Mid-Oct
Bears sleeping yet? They don't actually hibernate, especially in the South.
population through that area in November? Low, you should have some shelters to yourself.
Nightly Tempts through there? 30-teens
What is the difficulty of the smokies north of Russel field? Only part ive done is from Fontana up to russel field and I found it tough. Does it become more enjoyable after Russel Field Shelter? Still tough, but views start to open up. Especially after the leaves are gone.

[The Solemates]

Instead of going up to russell field, you may want to take a trail up from cades cove to gregory's bald your first day. its a short trip to the bald from the AT junction, but well worth it! then the next day you get rocky top and thunderhead....some of the best views in the smokies.

[Gambit McCrae]

Instead of going up to russell field, you may want to take a trail up from cades cove to gregory's bald your first day. its a short trip to the bald from the AT junction, but well worth it! then the next day you get rocky top and thunderhead....some of the best views in the smokies.

I am sections the whole trail, I left the trail at Russel field shelter, so therefore this is where I must start again. only trail to is is Anthony creek to russel field tr to the AT. the head north toward Davenport.

[Gambit McCrae]

Any snow up there yet? Very Possible


I know people get caught in early March up there in snow storms. Possibility of that in November?

[HooKooDooKu]

Leaf color change starts to peak the 1st of October on the mountain tops and works its way down the mountain so that the valleys peak the last of October.
By early November (Veteran's Day), there's only a few individual trees with any leaf color left. By Thanksgiving, there should be no color left.

The average 'climate' by Thanksgiving call for Hi/lo temps of about 55º/32º in the valleys and 40º/25º at the highest mountain peaks. Actual temperatures can easily be +/-15º.
Looking at the archive of the Look Rock Webcam (http://www.nature.nps.gov/air/webcams/parks/grsmcam/grsmcam.cfm), snow is not the norm around Thanksgiving, but is definitely a possibility (the peaks of GSMNP have seen snow every month of the year but July and August).

Once the leaves have all past their peaks, the place pretty much shuts down (relatively speaking) for the winter.

Leaving Spence Field, you'll have a VERY steep (but relatively short) climb to Rocky Top. Parts of the trail are particularly steep going down the other side. After that, it's pretty much typical up-n-down of ridge walking. Of course things trend more up than down until you reach Clingman's Dome.

[TNhiker]

Yup.....the possibility does exist...

Just a few years ago, after hurricane sandy came in and dumped a few feet of snow on the higher elevations, a southbounder had to be evacuated out....

And to me, the section between spence and mollies was seemingly the toughest......that stretch going up and over thunderhead was not easy...

[Gambit McCrae]

Thanks for this info guys its what i am looking for. Still waiting for Viking to chime in...
I would really like to knock this section out, but I want to be smart about it...

[TNhiker]

Just pack your winter stuff----watch the forecast---and maybe have a contingency plan....

i go backpacking year round in these parts, and while its in the back of my head, I try not to worry about it too much...

for that sandy storm, I already had reservations at ice water, and post holed it out from the gap through over 3 feet of snow.....the temperatures were really warm so the worst thing I had to deal with was the melting snow...

November can be a fun time as it ca be warm during day and chilly at night......the crowds sorta thin out although thanksgiving weekend will be more crowded than other weekends....

[Gambit McCrae]

What are the odds of someone on here wanting to do this section? I know its thanksgiving but it would be a great time to knock it out

[RED-DOG]

the only thing i am going to say is if your going to be in the GSMNP that time of year be preparred for ALL TYPES of WEATHER CONDITIONS, you could have well below freezing temps, couple of feet of snow, but on the same hand you could see mild temps but go PREPARED for ALL WEATHER CONDITIONS, they will be NO fall leaves left that high up but might have some in lower elevs, for as people are concerned the only ones you will see is the Hardcore hikers all the Leave watchers Tourist types have hauled ass but you might see a few that likes the colder temps, The trail from Russel Field to Spence Field is EASY relatively flat BUT once you pass Spence field the trail turns straight up to go across thunder head and rocky top, the section of AT that goes from Spence Field to Double Springs Gap shelter in my oppinion is the HARDEST section in the entire park, then from Double springs gap to NewFound Gap RD the hardest part of this section is coming down from the top of Clingmans Dome, then from NewFound Gap to Davenport Gap is relativaly easy compared to the southern half of the park, don't forget to stop at Charlies Bunnion ( it's unforgettable ) but once you make it to the top of Cosby Knob it's basically all Down Hill to I-40, and for as nightly temps are concerned you will probably see below freezing, the GSMNP in my oppinion is without a doubt is the Hardest part of the SOUTHERN AT but also if you can handle the terrain can be some of the most rewarding hiking on the SOUTHERN AT. Good Luck and have lots of fun

[Gambit McCrae]

Physically I can do it, but have little experience in snow walking, let alone in the smokies lol

[TNhiker]

Also stop by mount cammerer...

how was the hike this past weekend? You get a ride? You see the people tunnel?

[Gambit McCrae]

The rain detoured me, I spent some good time with the girlfriend and we drove up to Clingmans Dome Sunday, it was her first time on the AT, and to see the Smokies, I piggy backed her all the way up to the dome just playin around haha I got quite the comments doing so! luckily she only wieghs about 100 pounds lol

27807

Mt Buckley isnt it? South of Clingmans?

27808

[HooKooDooKu]

Physically I can do it, but have little experience in snow walking, let alone in the smokies lol
You can always plan for it and simply see what the weather is like the week before you go. Having feet of snow to deal with, even at upper elevations, is a rarity in GSMNP in November.
Check out the Web Cam Archive (http://www.nature.nps.gov/air/webcams/parks/grsmcam/grsm_arc.cfm). Some years you will see some snow on the mountain tops that time of year, most years you won't. If the week comes and the forecast calls for good odds of snow, you could always back out. The bigger issue will be the cold. You could very easily experience cold temperatures in the low teens that time of year... or the temperature might never go below freezing.

[ChuckT]

You should also plan on company on the trail especially if the fall color is late this year.

[HooKooDooKu]

You should also plan on company on the trail especially if the fall color is late this year.
Sorry Chuck, but I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you on possible fall color. There might be some people on the trail trying to get a first look at winter views before the weather gets too cold, but there won't be any color to see by Thanksgiving.

The typical fall season in GSMNP calls for the trees to start changing at the upper elevations the first of October.
By the time you get to the end of October, the peak color has passed at the lower elevations. About a week into November, just about all the leaves have turned brown with most of them on the ground.
By the time Thanksgiving comes along, you're pretty much a month past leaf season in GSMNP.

Even better than the Look Rock Web cam, the Purchase Knob Web Cam Archive (http://www.nature.nps.gov/air/WebCams/parks/grsmpkcam/grsmpk_arc.cfm) might better show you the change of the seasons.


On the subject of snow...
Gambit, take a look at the Purchase Know Web Cam Archive from November 4th, 2010 thru November 10th, 2010. It will give you a perfect example of what the snow MIGHT do that time of year.
November 4th looks like a typical post-leaf season year. The field in front of the camera is still green but the leaves have all turned brown, most of them on the ground.
November 5th suddenly has a layer of snow on the ground.
November 6th and the snow is a little deeper (2"-4" as a guess)
November 7th and the snow is already melting.
November 8th and the snow is almost gone.
November 9th and you might miss the signs that a recent snow happened.
November 10th and the only difference you can see compared to November 4th is that the brown leaves that used to be on the trees are now on the ground... with no hint of a recent snow fall.

Unfortunately, the Look Rock Web Cam Archive (http://www.nature.nps.gov/air/WebCams/parks/grsmcam/grsm_arc.cfm) isn't as complete for those same dates. But if you look at November 7th, you can see how this snow is only affecting the upper-most elevations.
You can also see that by mid November, even in the valleys, the leaves that do remain on the trees are brown, and even these are on the ground by Thanksgiving.

Look at the Look Rock Web Cam for December 10th, and you can see either a layer of snow or frost at the elevations above 5,000'
(The Purchase Know Web Cam at an elevation of 4,900' doesn't show any snow on the ground that same day)

Look at the archive for early Dec 2010 and the November snow described above sort of repeats itself.

[Gambit McCrae]

hOOKOO WHAT A GREAT SITE!!! THANKS :) THIS HELPS LAOT AND i WILL STUDY IT AND GO WITH MY GUT WHICH IS I THINK i CAN DEAL WITH LIGHT SNOW CHANCE

[RED-DOG]

On all three of my AT thru's the hardest part for me in the GSMNP wasn't the Terrain, Bears, people or snow it was the consistant COLD when you'll up 4500-6000ft in elevation and when the temps drop it gets COLD and i mean very Damn COLD.

[illabelle]

Gambit, I don't know which "Tennessee Hilltops" you live in, but if you're near the Smokies, it shouldn't be a terrible inconvenience to get some good current weather intel before you head out. For me, in the Knoxville area, we can often see the snow on the mountaintops. We don't have snowshoes or crampons, so we'd probably abort if there was enough snow to see from the city ridges.
OTOH, if the forecast was warmish and sunny, we might just go for it.

[HooKooDooKu]

On all three of my AT thru's the hardest part for me in the GSMNP wasn't the Terrain, Bears, people or snow it was the consistant COLD when you'll up 4500-6000ft in elevation and when the temps drop it gets COLD and i mean very Damn COLD.
Over the 4th of July holiday, the weather station at LeConte Lodge registered an over-night low of 38º. But the climate data for that time of year at that elevation says the lows are only supposed to be in the low 50's.

That's why I added the note that temperatures can be +/-15º from the seasonable average temperatures.
So based on seasonable averages of a highs of about 60º in the valleys and 25º on the summits, temperatures around Thanksgiving can be as high as 75º down in Cades Cove, and as cold as 10º at Tricorner Knob Shelter.

When you throw in the possibility of Snow, you quickly understand RED-DOG's suggestion of being prepared for all weather conditions.

[TNhiker]

Over the 4th of July holiday, the weather station at LeConte Lodge registered an over-night low of 38º.



that was a great weekend of weather to be hiking in......

and that was an unusual occurence of a cold front....

but, weather swings like that are to be expected in november...........

[Gambit McCrae]

I think I shall plan to do it, and keep a very close eye on the weather leading up to it, and what is happening along the coast. I will be prepared to cancel leading up to the day before the trip. And I will Definately be bringing my Winter Montbell Bag along iwth some good fleece layers for sleeping. Ill bring my Asolos instead of salamons and over just be prepared for the cold. Im okay with snow, Im not okay with ice, or FEET of snow haha

[chasby]

When I was coming through there in early November last year we were snowed on. Probably only 4-5 inches, but a low of 19ish in the shelter. Snow drifts made some parts of the trail very deep too.

[HooKooDooKu]

Im okay with snow, Im not okay with ice, or FEET of snow haha
If you're on the crest of the AT, ice might not be a problem. But I know of some places (upper section of Alum Cave Tr comes to mind) where the trail is exposed rock with water seeps flowing over the trail. Places like that can make for ice problems in Nov if temperatures are staying below freezing.

[BuckeyeBill]

I think I shall plan to do it, and keep a very close eye on the weather leading up to it, and what is happening along the coast. I will be prepared to cancel leading up to the day before the trip. And I will Definately be bringing my Winter Montbell Bag along iwth some good fleece layers for sleeping. Ill bring my Asolos instead of salamons and over just be prepared for the cold. Im okay with snow, Im not okay with ice, or FEET of snow haha

If I were you. I would invest in some microspikes. Makes walking on ice much easier.

[HooKooDooKu]

If I were you. I would invest in some microspikes. Makes walking on ice much easier.
But is ice likely to be a problem?
Like I said, I know places that normally get fed from seeps have a decent chance they might freeze if a cold spell hits.

But looking at the climate data GSMNP publishes... on average, the daily temperature gets above freezing even at Clingman's Dome. Of course that's just 'average'. There are obviously times a cold front comes thru and keeps winter temperatures below freezing for a while.

But the OP is talking about November, not January... and plans to back out if weather looks iffy.

[Gambit McCrae]

HooKoo this is all accurate. As well I have since then decided due to time, that I would probably be better suited to start at clingmans and nobo to Davenport. That would be what 40 miles? Due to possible weather snaps, AND my time frame I think this hike would be better suited.

[Gambit McCrae]

Here is a rough gear list I would take in November
Arcteryx Altra 65 pack
Montbell Down Hugger 15 deg with fleece liner(Jacket and pants)
Outdoor Research Heavy down jacket(weighs about a pound but will ensure Im warm)
Asolo Matic 2000 boots
Sunglasses
Exped synmat 7wide with Thick eblanket under it...Or over me? The synmat is really not a winter pad but its comfy and only pad I have right now
No Tent? Or bring my Hilleberg? or A little UL tent(I dont think that I am going to run into an issue in november as said before)
Down BlackRock hat, OR gloves
Northface zip pants
Thick smart wools

[joshuasdad]

I am planning to start at Cades Cove, up to russel Field Shelter, north to Davenport Gap. Thanksgiving weekend(Thur-Sun).

Questions:

Any snow up there yet?
Still fall leaves in the trees?
Bears sleeping yet?
population through that area in November?
Nightly Tempts through there?
What is the difficulty of the smokies north of Russel field? Only part ive done is from Fontana up to russel field and I found it tough. Does it become more enjoyable after Russel Field Shelter?

The worst bout of hypothermia I experienced on the trail was a 2 day hike from Clingmans to Fontana dam in early November, and conditions were fairly mild (i.e., before Snowicane Sandy). I was trying to keep up with a taller hiking companion, didn't eat and drink enough, and was pretty incapacitated the hour after I stopped at the shelter (shivering uncontrollably in sleeping bag).

I hiked Davenport to Clingmans several weeks later on Thanksgiving weekend, and experienced some postholing, was alone at Tricorner Knob shelter until after sunset (one other hiker came in late), numerous blowdowns, a sleet storm, and 17 degree temperatures (and much below zero windchills) on Clingmans.

Several weeks later, a solo section hiker died at Tricorner Knob shelter of hypothermia.

I still maintain that this is the most dangerous section of the trail for many SECTION hikers, because the trail looks deceptively easy, but any errors can be costly as this section (especially near Tricorner Knob) is arguably the most isolated on the entire Appalachian Trail.

Accordingly, I personally would not do more than an overnight in late November with your proposed gear, as the mountains can make their own weather, which could soak your down in the absence of a reliable shelter. Consider parking a car at Newfound Gap and hiking to Davenport Gap on days 1-2. Then get a ride to Cades Cove, and complete days 3-4. That way, you can carry less, and adjust your gear to the conditions. Also, if days 3-4 are too difficult, you can bail at Clingmans (if the road is still open).

Hope you have a great hike!

[Gambit McCrae]

That sounds like an outstanding adventure to survive! I will have my plans very tentative upon good weather. And From New found gap to Daventport should be a good trip. If weather looks really great I will go from clingmans to Davenport.