22 Days on the White Dot Trail

[Tipi Walter]

Okay boys, I just got back from a long backpacking trip into the Wilson Creek area of Pisgah NF and here's the trip report. Most of the trip was on the MST.

To see all the pics from the trip go here---

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpack-2014-Trips-152/22-Days-Pisgah-Holyland/

22 DAYS
INTO THE
PISGAH HOLYLAND

TRIP 157
June 27--July 18 2014

HIGHLIGHTS

** 22 DAYS IN THE PISGAH HOLYLAND

** 30TH ANNIVERSARY PISGAH TRIP 1984-2014

** DRIVING INTO BLACK MOUNTAIN NC

** AMY WILLOW HIKES ME INTO UPPER CREEK

** MY FIRST NIGHT IN THE PISGAH HOLYLAND SINCE 2006

** A NIGHT IN BURNT SOCK CAMP ON UPPER CREEK

** DANGEROUS HIGH WATER ON UPPER CREEK

** ON THE MOUNTAINS TO SEA TRAIL

** RAIDERS CAMP CREEK TRAIL

** HARPER CREEK TRAIL

** ENDLESS SWIMS

** HUNTFISH FALLS AND LOST COVE CREEK

** GRAGG PRONG TRAIL

** MEETING MST THRUHIKER HEATHER HOUSEKEEPER

** 15 DAYS ON THE WHITE DOT TRAIL

** TIMBER RIDGE TRAIL

** PATMAN MEETS ME ON TIMBER RIDGE

** LOST COVE CREEK TRAIL

** LITTLE LOST COVE FALLS

** ALL DAY WITH PATMAN AT HUNTFISH FALLS

** FRIENDLY VANESSA AND DALLAS ON LOST COVE CREEK

** CHESTNUT COVE BRANCH FALLS

** NORTH HARPER CREEK FALLS

** THE NUT CLIMB UP SOUTH HARPER CREEK FALLS

** 22 DAYS GETTING NOSEEUM BIT

** 13 DAYS ON UPPER CREEK

** IN THE STEELS CREEK CANYON

** JACOB AND HIS VENTURE WILDERNESS GROUP

** AMY POPS IN ON A FRIDAY DAYHIKE

** 6 YELLOW JACKET STINGS

** THE GREENTOWN SHORTCUT IS FOUND

** 10 RALEIGH DAYHIKERS PASS THRU PISGAH CAMP

** TRAIL 268A CLEARED

** FIRST TIME BACKPACKED THE GREENTOWN SHORTCUT

** THE PINE RIDGE 255 LOOP TO RAIDER CAMP

** THE ASU OUTDOOR PROGRAM GROUP

** AMY ARRIVES ON DAY 21 AND STAYS IN PISGAH CAMP

** ALL DAY RAIN ON DAY 22 BUT WE LEAVE

TRAILS
Entrance FS Road 197/Greentown Trail 268A
**Burnthouse/Pisgah Camp**
Upper Creek Extension
**Burnt Sock Camp on Upper Creek**
Upper Creek Extension/Mountains to Sea
**Greentown Camps**
Greentown East/Greentown North
Raider Camp
**Blue Dot Camp**
Raider Camp
Harper Creek
**Harper/North Harper Jct Camp**
Harper Creek
North Harper
North Harper Access 266A
FS Roadwalk 464
Huntfish Falls Access 263
Lost Cove Creek
Gragg Prong
**Beaverdam Camp on Upper Gragg Prong**
Gragg Prong/Road 981
Timber Ridge 261
**False Bee Mt Camp**
Timber Ridge
Lost Cove Creek
Huntfish Falls
**Grand Camp Huntfish Falls**
Huntfish Falls Access
Road 464
North Harper Access
North Harper
**North Harper Falls Camp**
North Harper
Harper Creek
South Harper Falls
Raider Camp
**Blue Dot Camp**
Raider Camp
Greentown
Greentown Extension
**Burnthouse/Pisgah Camp**(2)
Upper Creek
Greentown to Highway 181
**Greentown Creek Camp**
Greentown to Highway 181
FS Road 496
Steels Creek/MST
**Steels Top O The Canyon Camp**
Steels Creek/MST
FS Road 496
Greentown/Extension
**Burnthouse/Pisgah Camp**(3)
Greentown Shortcut
Greentown/MST
FS Road 198
Pine Ridge Connector 255A
Pine Ridge 255
Raider Camp
**Raider/Harper Creek Jct**
Raider Camp
**Blue Dot**
Raider Camp
Greentown/MST
Greentown Shortcut
**Burnthouse/Pisgah Camp**(2)

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpack-2014-Trips-152/22-Days-Pisgah-Holyland/i-HM4M5ff/0/M/TRIP%20157%20016-M.jpg
My trip begins by driving to Asheville and leaving my car at Amy Willow's house for 3 weeks and getting a shuttle from her to Morganton and north to Upper Creek and into the Pisgah Holyland. On the first day she hikes me in and cooks up dinner as I struggle into camp with my 85lb pack.

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpack-2014-Trips-152/22-Days-Pisgah-Holyland/i-vwN43rx/0/M/TRIP%20157%20554-M.jpg
This map shows my starting point to the east and northeast of highway 181. The top red trail line is the MST but I start on Trail 268A and connect the two.

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpack-2014-Trips-152/22-Days-Pisgah-Holyland/i-BgQGwXB/0/M/TRIP%20157%20056-M.jpg
I spend 3 days camping at different spots on Upper Creek as daily rains keep me from pulling the two crossings to the MST. Here is a typical Pisgah swimhole.

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpack-2014-Trips-152/22-Days-Pisgah-Holyland/i-ndHN8FC/0/M/TRIP%20157%20070-M.jpg
The double white dots depict the MST Upper Creek crossing which has to be done to head north.


http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpack-2014-Trips-152/22-Days-Pisgah-Holyland/i-4bMp4JX/0/M/TRIP%20157%20092-M.jpg
I finally get on the MST/Greentown trail which takes me to Raider Camp trail and "Blue Dot Camp" which overlooks the 200 foot waterfall of South Harper Creek Falls.


http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpack-2014-Trips-152/22-Days-Pisgah-Holyland/i-Jxc2z5P/0/M/TRIP%20157%20156-M.jpg
Raider Camp takes me to Harper Creek and North Harper Creek (all part of the MST) which takes me past Bard Falls above.

[Tipi Walter]

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpack-2014-Trips-152/22-Days-Pisgah-Holyland/i-b3Q5Zb8/0/M/TRIP%20157%20158-M.jpg
North Harper Creek takes me to the upward access trail to FS road 464 and a half mile later I'm at the Huntfish Falls access trail a mile down to the falls.


http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpack-2014-Trips-152/22-Days-Pisgah-Holyland/i-Mtv56Hw/0/M/TRIP%20157%20173-M.jpg
I pass by Huntfish Falls and head up Gragg Prong to camp and run into Heather Housekeeper, who says "Outer Banks" when I ask where she is coming from. Yup, she's hiking the whole MST. Here web blog can be found here---

http://www.thebotanicalhiker.blogspot.com/


http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpack-2014-Trips-152/22-Days-Pisgah-Holyland/i-LjkHMhL/0/M/TRIP%20157%20209-M.jpg
After I pull Gragg Prong I get off the MST on the Timber Ridge trail where I meet my backpacking buddy Patman and he joins me for 4 days. Here we are crossing Lost Cove Creek.


http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpack-2014-Trips-152/22-Days-Pisgah-Holyland/i-VBDNXwG/0/L/TRIP%20157%20407-L.jpg
As we hoof it down Lost Cove Creek we pull a sidetrail on difficult slippery tread to Little Lost Cove Falls, as shown.

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpack-2014-Trips-152/22-Days-Pisgah-Holyland/i-3pWDGvC/0/M/TRIP%20157%20234-M.jpg
Lost Cove Creek puts us back out at Huntfish Falls where we spend all day swimming. Brandi and Leo are up on the rock.


http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpack-2014-Trips-152/22-Days-Pisgah-Holyland/i-dLnf6XJ/0/M/TRIP%20157%20273-M.jpg
After camping at Huntfish Falls, Patman and I tackle North Harper Creek trail all the way to North Harper Falls which has a great campsite right below the falls.

[Tipi Walter]

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpack-2014-Trips-152/22-Days-Pisgah-Holyland/i-cb6thj6/0/M/TRIP%20157%20288-M.jpg
On Day 10 it's time to say goodbye to Patman as he takes off on Trail 239 while I stay on North Harper Creek and south.


http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpack-2014-Trips-152/22-Days-Pisgah-Holyland/i-FzwPfzz/0/L/TRIP%20157%20371-L.jpg
I return to Upper Creek and spend a couple days exploring the "secret" canyon gorge.


http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpack-2014-Trips-152/22-Days-Pisgah-Holyland/i-JjGqcqn/0/M/TRIP%20157%20439-M.jpg
A couple days later I leave Upper Creek and swing up the MST to highway 181 and head down to Steels Creek where I camp and discover yet another creek canyon gorge replete with awesome swimming holes.


http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpack-2014-Trips-152/22-Days-Pisgah-Holyland/i-ZGvNRPK/0/M/TRIP%20157%20213-M.jpg
As I backtrack out of Steels Creek I run into my second Venture UNC-Charlotte backpacking group going down into Steels.


http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpack-2014-Trips-152/22-Days-Pisgah-Holyland/i-RvSjh9Q/0/M/TRIP%20157%20344-M.jpg
I return to my favorite camp on Upper Creek and get a surprise dayhike visit from Amy Willow as she sports in the big swimhole next to camp.


http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpack-2014-Trips-152/22-Days-Pisgah-Holyland/i-H2J4QGv/0/M/TRIP%20157%20521-M.jpg
I leave Upper Creek and take FS 198 to a big loop system called Pine Ridge/Phillips Branch and end up on Harper Creek again. On my way back to Upper on the Greentown/MST I run into these girls from Appalachian State pulling an Outdoor Program trip.


http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpack-2014-Trips-152/22-Days-Pisgah-Holyland/i-DDMgG4C/0/M/TRIP%20157%20527-M.jpg
My last couple days are spent on Upper Creek waiting for Amy to pick me up and so I do some trail work on 268A and stop at Rattlesnake Rock for a pic.

[Tipi Walter]

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpack-2014-Trips-152/22-Days-Pisgah-Holyland/i-PbCcRsH/0/M/TRIP%20157%20545-M.jpg
On Day 21 Amy backpacks into Pisgah Camp on Upper Creek and we get caught in an all day rainstorm on our last day so I invite her into my tent to cook breakfast with her new fancy Esbit stove.


http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpack-2014-Trips-152/22-Days-Pisgah-Holyland/i-LPVT5wP/0/M/TRIP%20157%20547-M.jpg
Amy's little Esbit stove which works pretty good.


http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpack-2014-Trips-152/22-Days-Pisgah-Holyland/i-dsvrw3G/0/M/TRIP%20157%20548-M.jpg
On the last day we have no choice but to pack up in an all-day rain and book it out 3 miles to Amy's car. And so ends another trip.

[rocketsocks]

Wow, that Secret Creek Canyon looks like really spectacular place to poke around a play, must have been lots a water that flowed there one day. Thanks for the photolog, very nice!

[rocketsocks]

Does the name "Ripshin Ridge" give any indication as to the sharpness of the rock or it's good purchase?

[Tipi Walter]

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpack-2014-Trips-152/22-Days-Pisgah-Holyland/i-F8KMX3c/0/L/TRIP%20157%20038-L.jpg
This is Upper Creek on Day 2 after an all-night rain and it's impassable but if you wait 12 hours it's okay.

30 years ago we used to hike up Ripshin Creek which is a true hell slog but as far as the creek crossings go (and there are many many of them in Pisgah), the creek beds in Pisgah are sandy and so the crossings are MUCH EASIER than in the Citico or Cohutta or Slickrock. I never worried about slipping like I did in the Cit/Slick.

[Dogwood]

Another great trip report by Tippi. THX much from this current keytapper cyber hiker. You aptly demonstrate "seeing what there is to see."

“There are two basic motivating forces: fear and love. When we are afraid, we pull back from life. When we are in love, we open to all that life has to offer with passion, excitement, and acceptance. We need to learn to love ourselves first, in all our glory and our imperfections. If we cannot love ourselves, we cannot fully open to our ability to love others or our potential to create. Evolution and all hopes for a better world rest in the fearlessness and open-hearted vision of people who embrace life.” — John Lennon

I see you Tippi in John Lennon's quote. Guess in which camp I see you.

[Grey Ghost]

Great pics Tippi.No doubt you have seen more of Gods beautiful creation than most will ever see.

[Dogwood]

I sure appreciate a university or college that gives you class credits for hiking like Appalachian State, Oregon State, etc

[rocketsocks]

I sure appreciate a university or college that gives you class credits for hiking like Appalachian State, Oregon State, etcOne school my Daughter is looking at Bloomsberg University in PA. also has a outdoors adventure program. We took a tour there not long ago, pretty nice place, they do lots of hikes on the AT...hope she'd take advantage of that should she decide to go there, been a little tough to get that one out though, just not her thing. :(

[TNhiker]

Had I done my college research in high school a little better, I would have like to have gone to Appalachian state.....

i really enjoy their campus and location....

however, not sure if that school would have turned me into the deadhead that I am.....

[rocketsocks]

Had I done my college research in high school a little better, I would have like to have gone to Appalachian state.....

i really enjoy their campus and location....

however, not sure if that school would have turned me into the deadhead that I am.....what kind is that? is Appalachia State uber conservative?

[rocketsocks]

Walter, for what ever reason, the "blue dot camp" photo is really throwin' me, I can't tell if it's a shear face, quartz vien, waterfall, or and old tree with gin...or all of thee above, what am I seeing at there?

[TNhiker]

Don't know that...

just meant that when I arrived at the college I went to, literally in the first day I was on campus---this hardcore punker was taken under some older students wings and they turned me on to the wonder of the Grateful Dead..

my life has never, and in a good way, been the same since.......

[rocketsocks]

Don't know that...

just meant that when I arrived at the college I went to, literally in the first day I was on campus---this hardcore punker was taken under some older students wings and they turned me on to the wonder of the Grateful Dead..

my life has never, and in a good way, been the same since.......Sweet! know the feelin' well. :sun

[Tipi Walter]

Walter, for what ever reason, the "blue dot camp" photo is really throwin' me, I can't tell if it's a shear face, quartz vien, waterfall, or and old tree with gin...or all of thee above, what am I seeing at there?

You are 300 feet above a 200 foot waterfall, basically . . .

Check out---

http://www.jdvstudio.com/Photography/Waterfalls/HarperCreek/HarperCreek.html


http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpack-2014-Trips-152/22-Days-Pisgah-Holyland/i-xVG5FsR/0/L/TRIP%20157%20089-L.jpg

[rocketsocks]

ahhh, I see it now...thanks Walter Cool picture, now go back to bed. :)

[rocketsocks]

I can't believe Walter just ran all the way there to trim that tree...nice job! that's some dedication.:D

[Tipi Walter]

I can't believe Walter just ran all the way there to trim that tree...nice job! that's some dedication.:D

It's a scary spot for us feeble over-sixty folks who prefer to stay on the ground and not get airborne, and it's probably not a place for kids---the overlook that is. But when I first saw the view I thought of flying down to the creek.

[PatmanTN]

Hey Walt, I posted this on WB in a GoPro thread but hope you don't mind me sharing on your report:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nW7zqVe7V8

[PatmanTN]

It's a scary spot for us feeble over-sixty folks who prefer to stay on the ground and not get airborne, and it's probably not a place for kids---the overlook that is. But when I first saw the view I thought of flying down to the creek.


uh-huh, yeah right....Tipi is far from feeble....dude is a solid piece of muscle and shames me as a person 20 years younger. I hope to be that fit when I'm in my mid-sixties.

[rocketsocks]

It's a scary spot for us feeble over-sixty folks who prefer to stay on the ground and not get airborne, and it's probably not a place for kids---the overlook that is. But when I first saw the view I thought of flying down to the creek.
Yup, I shy away from the airy views right at the edge, like standing' on McAfee knob...won't see me out there, preferring some things around me to hang on to, and provide a little spacial comfort zone. Funny I use to rock climb, and then got vertigo about 15 years ago, doctors don't know why, said it could have been a virus or medicines I take, can't seem to shake it. But every time I gain some elevation I try. Funnier still, even watching a movie with wild airy views will sometimes throw me off my chair. like Thelma and Louise when they go over the cliff...I get sucked in and start ta grabbin' for things, It's quite funny to watch says one friend of mine....says he! :cool: :D

[Tipi Walter]

Thanks a bunch Patman for the video addition and for the other vids you have made from recent trips. BTW, Patman played the guitar soundtrack on this video which is pretty neato.

[rocketsocks]

uh-huh, yeah right....Tipi is far from feeble....dude is a solid piece of muscle and shames me as a person 20 years younger. I hope to be that fit when I'm in my mid-sixties.I hear ya!

[rocketsocks]

Thanks a bunch Patman for the video addition and for the other vids you have made from recent trips. BTW, Patman played the guitar soundtrack on this video which is pretty neato.yeah, caught that,but didn't know, it was real good Patman, keep em comin

[rocketsocks]

...funny in the video how Mr.Snake comes over to see about lunch, decides to go top side (up scope) for a better look, see's how big you are.....and books.

[PatmanTN]

yeah that was really cool and fun to see that snake; he was a beautiful to watch in the water. though I know they aren't poisonous, I found myself almost involuntarily backing away as it swam towards me..you can see my backwards movement in the video, lol

[PatmanTN]

also meant to say that I swam for like two hours at that swim hole; just couldn't stop playing it was so cozy, it was one of the more pleasant such experiences I've had in a while. the swim holes seemed to be much more user friendly in the Piz than the ones I'm used to in the Smokies and Unicois in terms of bottom surface and water temp

[Cadenza]

Cool video, Patman.
Watching Tipi Walter get up with that pack is impressive in person. The vid can't quite capture the gravity of the situation.
I liked the snake at 1:07
The whole area looks like a place I should explore.

[rocketsocks]

also meant to say that I swam for like two hours at that swim hole; just couldn't stop playing it was so cozy, it was one of the more pleasant such experiences I've had in a while. the swim holes seemed to be much more user friendly in the Piz than the ones I'm used to in the Smokies and Unicois in terms of bottom surface and water tempyeah they probably warm up real nice and get flushed out and cleaned pretty regularly so to keep away the stagnant stuff, cozy seems a perfect description.

[The Solemates]

hey Tipi, any reason why you dont hike long distance trails instead of staying in the same area?

[wannahike]

Thanks for the pics and video, looks like a really neat place to hike.

[Tipi Walter]

hey Tipi, any reason why you dont hike long distance trails instead of staying in the same area?

It's really a question of not relying on shuttles as a long linear trail puts me too far from my drop-off point whereas if I explore a certain area for 3 weeks I can make my way back to where I started. Usually Little Mitten drops me off and if I hiked a long trail she would have to drive a couple hundred extra miles to reach me at the end.

I pulled two long trips into the Mt Rogers backcountry a couple years ago and both times I left my car at the NRA headquarters---friendly folks---but the hike to Mt Rogers was over 30 miles away. So, I hiked and played in the Crest Zone for a couple weeks and then had to hike 30 miles north on the AT back to my car at the NRA. Don't really like relying on shuttles.

[rocketsocks]

It's really a question of not relying on shuttles as a long linear trail puts me too far from my drop-off point whereas if I explore a certain area for 3 weeks I can make my way back to where I started. Usually Little Mitten drops me off and if I hiked a long trail she would have to drive a couple hundred extra miles to reach me at the end.

I pulled two long trips into the Mt Rogers backcountry a couple years ago and both times I left my car at the NRA headquarters---friendly folks---but the hike to Mt Rogers was over 30 miles away. So, I hiked and played in the Crest Zone for a couple weeks and then had to hike 30 miles north on the AT back to my car at the NRA. Don't really like relying on shuttles.What appeals to me about this style is you really get to know an area well, instead of just cruising through it, I often hear you refer to camping at a certain spot, and that it makes for a good camp clearing, that kinda info is invaluable to my way of thinking as far as good camp sites go (whatever ones requirements are, view, flat ground, no poison ivy, trees to hang from or shade ya, water near by ect. ) it can be counted on for the most part.

[Tipi Walter]

What appeals to me about this style is you really get to know an area well, instead of just cruising through it, I often hear you refer to camping at a certain spot, and that it makes for a good camp clearing, that kinda info is invaluable to my way of thinking as far as good camp sites go (whatever ones requirements are, view, flat ground, no poison ivy, trees to hang from or shade ya, water near by ect. ) it can be counted on for the most part.

Most of my best trips are repeat trips to a known area with known water sources and known (beloved) campsites. I equate it to going to a 5-star hotel which is on your usual tour circuit and knowing exactly which room you want to stay. "I'm shooting for that campsite by Wildcat Falls on Slickrock Creek by the heart-rock formation."

Eventually you develop a "black book" list of hundreds of campsites in a 3 state area and know where to go in a lightning storm vs a calm day vs a call for incoming tornadoes or a polar vortex (or 7 day blizzard). "Where do you want to make your stand??" is the pertinent question. If your brain is a memory stick of all your potential homes for the night, and you even have Plan B (second sites) for each one, well, you're set for almost any conditions.

[rocketsocks]

Most of my best trips are repeat trips to a known area with known water sources and known (beloved) campsites. I equate it to going to a 5-star hotel which is on your usual tour circuit and knowing exactly which room you want to stay. "I'm shooting for that campsite by Wildcat Falls on Slickrock Creek by the heart-rock formation."

Eventually you develop a "black book" list of hundreds of campsites in a 3 state area and know where to go in a lightning storm vs a calm day vs a call for incoming tornadoes or a polar vortex (or 7 day blizzard). "Where do you want to make your stand??" is the pertinent question. If your brain is a memory stick of all your potential homes for the night, and you even have Plan B (second sites) for each one, well, you're set for almost any conditions.Nice, like having a second sleep pad when the one your carrying develops a hernia at an inopportune moment, (as if there's any good time for a blow out). ;):D

[Alleghanian Orogeny]

what kind is that? is Appalachia State uber conservative?

The Appalachian State University I graduated from in 1978 was about as far from conservative as could be between 1973 and 1978. Pretty much "no rules, just right".

Great report, TW, and thanks for the detailed and well-photographed write up. By the way, I day-hiked over to "Nowhere", aka Rich Mountain, aka "Garden of the Gods" (I think that's what your group called it) along the Carriage Trails in Moses Cone Park last weekend. The trees have grown up at the summit such that there is no longer a decent view, certainly not the 360 degree lookout like in the 1970s. It's still cool to stroll through there and recall all the fun we had up that way 35-40 years back.

Keep up the great work and the reports.

AO

[Tipi Walter]

The Appalachian State University I graduated from in 1978 was about as far from conservative as could be between 1973 and 1978. Pretty much "no rules, just right".

Great report, TW, and thanks for the detailed and well-photographed write up. By the way, I day-hiked over to "Nowhere", aka Rich Mountain, aka "Garden of the Gods" (I think that's what your group called it) along the Carriage Trails in Moses Cone Park last weekend. The trees have grown up at the summit such that there is no longer a decent view, certainly not the 360 degree lookout like in the 1970s. It's still cool to stroll through there and recall all the fun we had up that way 35-40 years back.

Keep up the great work and the reports.

AO

That's cool, I got my first degree from ASU in '78 too, a BS in Health Education. And thanks for the good comments.

I really miss old Rich Mountain, what we called the Temple of the Gods because it had a strange rock circle on top with a dead mulberry tree in the middle. This was back in the mid to late 1980's. There could be a road up to the top now for all I know. "Our" Temple of the Gods was reached at least 3 ways I know of---from Trout Lake at the bottom on the spiral horse trail to the top (the carriage trails). #2---From a nearby road on the southwest side(??) where we parked and hiked up. #3---the best way---hiking up thru Lost Valley (Boone lake) by following the creek all the way to a ridge and then making a left turn to the top of the mountain. Always a favorite place for cross country skiers in the winter.

BTW, part of the carriage/trout lake trail is the Mountains to Sea trail.

[rocketsocks]

The Appalachian State University I graduated from in 1978 was about as far from conservative as could be between 1973 and 1978. Pretty much "no rules, just right".

Great report, TW, and thanks for the detailed and well-photographed write up. By the way, I day-hiked over to "Nowhere", aka Rich Mountain, aka "Garden of the Gods" (I think that's what your group called it) along the Carriage Trails in Moses Cone Park last weekend. The trees have grown up at the summit such that there is no longer a decent view, certainly not the 360 degree lookout like in the 1970s. It's still cool to stroll through there and recall all the fun we had up that way 35-40 years back.

Keep up the great work and the reports.

AO
ah got cha...good deal, walks down memory lane are a nice way to re-live a moment in time.

[double d]

Great trip report Tipi Walter, loved the Youtube video as well.

[Alleghanian Orogeny]

That's cool, I got my first degree from ASU in '78 too, a BS in Health Education. And thanks for the good comments.

I really miss old Rich Mountain, what we called the Temple of the Gods because it had a strange rock circle on top with a dead mulberry tree in the middle. This was back in the mid to late 1980's. There could be a road up to the top now for all I know. "Our" Temple of the Gods was reached at least 3 ways I know of---from Trout Lake at the bottom on the spiral horse trail to the top (the carriage trails). #2---From a nearby road on the southwest side(??) where we parked and hiked up. #3---the best way---hiking up thru Lost Valley (Boone lake) by following the creek all the way to a ridge and then making a left turn to the top of the mountain. Always a favorite place for cross country skiers in the winter.

BTW, part of the carriage/trout lake trail is the Mountains to Sea trail. I didn't realize we were there at the same time, TW. BS in Geology '78 here. Given that it is, and has been since the 1950s, within the National Park system, Moses Cone Memorial Park hasn't changed much. The spiral trail which the MST intersects above Shulls Mill Rd is part of the 25 mile Carriage Trails network, as you noted. With the exception of the half-mile gated gravel road link between Shulls Mill Rd and the big meadow at the south base of the open Rich Mtn summit (probably your #2, above), there are no new roads in that part of Cone Park. Your #3 is a traverse up the headwaters of Winkler's Creek above the Boone Reservoir, where a very steep but forested headwall rises to a north-south knife-edge ridge (well, wide enough for a two-track NPS road, but barely) which forms the north end of the Rich Mtn ridgeline (and is a segment of the Tennessee Valley Divide). Nowadays, we normally approach from a little-known subdivision with a small network of private roads on the far northwest end of the Cone Park property, of of Russ Cornett Rd about 2 miles past the old teepee location near Harvard Ayers' place, where a small spur ridge holding the high ground above old Camp Yonahlossee (now Yonahlossee Resort) is host to 35-40 homes. We use a small self-blazed trail to access the ridgeline around a mile and a half north of the "Temple", which was of course part of the landscaping of the Carriage Trails built by Cone. I don't recall ever seeing another soul within the roughly 1,000 acres of Cone Park north of the gate where the two-track along the ridgeline intersects the Carriage Trail/spiral road. There is actually a second spiral road section just north of the Rich Mountain summit, just off of the N-S ridgetop road. It is now thickly forested, so no views. A good read on the history of Cone Park is "A Mansion in the Mountains", written by a graduate student from ASU, if I recall correctly. It relates how Cone purchased dozens of tracts to assemble the roughly 3,000 acre estate, employed many of the farmers he bought out, laid out the Carriage Trails, developed extensive apple orchards, and generally made the estate more or less self-sufficient. Ah, memories of the '70s....... AO

[misterfloyd]

I enjoyed the video as well. Live right down the road so to speak from ASU. I'm glad I didn't go there. I would of stayed outside most of the time. :)

I have never done that section of the MST, I need to do it when it gets hot. Going to do the MST in linville Gorge next week.

Man, that is one heavy pack.

Thanks again for the info and video,

Floyd

[Tipi Walter]

Nowadays, we normally approach from a little-known subdivision with a small network of private roads on the far northwest end of the Cone Park property, of of Russ Cornett Rd about 2 miles past the old teepee location near Harvard Ayers' place, where a small spur ridge holding the high ground above old Camp Yonahlossee (now Yonahlossee Resort) is host to 35-40 homes.AO

Back in '86 my old backpacking buddy Johnny B and I got permission from Dr Ayers to set up tipis on his land but these tipis couldn't be the old tipi location you're talking about? Or could they??

Anyway, Harvard Ayers sold the land eventually and in '87 I moved 10 miles outside Boone to Sugar Grove and set up a great tipi on 40 acres on a high ridgetop above the old Stillwinds community land---a small community-offshoot peopled with some folks from the Erosion Canyon community in Boone---now bulldozed and obliterated.

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/BooneYears/Tipi-Life/i-M6RPpPc/0/M/TW%20at%20Harvard%20Tipi%20Camp%2C%201986-M.jpg
Here's the crude tipi I had set up on Ayer's land back in '86. Thrown together with deadfall, tree bark and old tent-tarps.

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/BooneYears/Tipi-Life/i-xXMKC4G/0/O/Picture%20Johnny%27s%20Tipi.jpg
Up behind me on the hill was Johnny's fine lodge. I remember parking down on the road and humping in his iron woodstove along with all the tipi poles---across a barbed wire fence.

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/BooneYears/Tipi-Life/i-LLw42wm/0/M/ECm-yoQxYSzL-2lkdeQiDn3DtLabjBNXc2AIkIQ81Ac-M.jpg
Sometime around the winter of '87 or '88 Johnny let my friend Amy and her boyfriend Jody (later husband) stay in his lodge. Yes, it's the same Amy as pictured in this trip report.

[Alleghanian Orogeny]

Thanks for the memories, TW, great pics and recollections.

I doubt your Ayers property location was the same as the one I recall. In the '77/'78 winter, myself and a handful of other geology majors had Harvard's permission to cut some deadwood for firewood off off of his property, and I recall we had to drive my old Scout a few hundred yards off of Russ Cornett Rd, then gravel (now paved) to reach the woodcutting area towards the back of his property, which I further recall was some 20-25 acres. I think that by then Harvard had built a house on the tract. At that time, and probably at least 2-3 years before then, there was a badly run-down single-wide mobile home and a large tipi set close to Russ Cornett Rd (less than 150' off the road) about 200-300 yards, and around two tight curves, towards Boone from where Harvard's driveway dumped out onto Russ Cornett Rd. The tipi was more or less in line with the long axis of the mobile home, with the mobile home being closest to the county road. Both were occupied through the 77/78 and the 78/79 winters, and possibly somewhat longer than that. Both are long gone now.

AO

[Tipi Walter]

I enjoyed the video as well. Live right down the road so to speak from ASU. I'm glad I didn't go there. I would of stayed outside most of the time. :)

Floyd

This is pretty much what happened to me. I got to Boone in '73 after getting out of the USAF and was on the GI Bill so ASU looked like a good bet. In fact, just before I got out of the Air Force I was sitting in a barracks in the Republic of Panama and made a short list of stuff to get when I got out: Kelty pack, sleeping bag and a pair of boots. At the time a Kelty pack cost $29.

Once in Boone I managed to get around 3 degrees but then the outdoor bug bit hard again (from an earlier "bite" in the 1950's/'60s) and by 1980 I was living outdoors on a permanent basis. Back then Watauga County was the "alaskan frontier" and the wild wild west (western NC that is) and a person could hike out of the Boone city limits and in a mile or two be camping in the woods. The Winklers Creek watershed was a favorite area to explore, backpack and camp.

[Tipi Walter]

Thanks for the memories, TW, great pics and recollections.

I doubt your Ayers property location was the same as the one I recall. In the '77/'78 winter, myself and a handful of other geology majors had Harvard's permission to cut some deadwood for firewood off off of his property, and I recall we had to drive my old Scout a few hundred yards off of Russ Cornett Rd, then gravel (now paved) to reach the woodcutting area towards the back of his property, which I further recall was some 20-25 acres. I think that by then Harvard had built a house on the tract. At that time, and probably at least 2-3 years before then, there was a badly run-down single-wide mobile home and a large tipi set close to Russ Cornett Rd (less than 150' off the road) about 200-300 yards, and around two tight curves, towards Boone from where Harvard's driveway dumped out onto Russ Cornett Rd. The tipi was more or less in line with the long axis of the mobile home, with the mobile home being closest to the county road. Both were occupied through the 77/78 and the 78/79 winters, and possibly somewhat longer than that. Both are long gone now.

AO

Your experience predates mine by several years, but I do remember a side road exit from Ayer's land and I vaguely remember his house below our tipi spots, at a lower elevation. My main form of transportation then was a bicycle and I exited the land near his house on an old road which tied in with another road. Below our tipis there was a little creek but on the hillside above the creek between the creek and the road was an old dump where people parked and threw their trash off the road. I picked thru this dump to help build my tipi there, and even found an old woodstove in the trash.

The way we got to his place was to take Winklers Creek road up a ways and then make a right on a paved road (by the old dumpsters) but I never knew the name of the road. Russ Cornett Rd??

To get to the headwaters of Winklers Creek we used to hike the whole way up from the Boone Mall. One memory stands out---passing someone's house on Winklers road about 3 miles up and having a big german shepherd dog run out to bark. He always wore a green military fatigue shirt. The dog that is. Weird.

[Alleghanian Orogeny]

Winklers Creek Rd left the floodplain of Boone Creek off of Greenway Road, near what is now the Boone Mall. After a mile and a half or so, Russ Cornett Rd ramps up on the right. The first couple of hundred feet were paved as far back as the late 70s, but the rest of it up to the dumpsters on the right and to Harvard Ayers driveway on the left was gravel. Russ Cornett Rd continued past Ayers' place to a T intersection, where Russ Cornett Rd was the Left turn and Diamond Ranch Rd was the Right. Diamond Ranch Rd, then as now, dropped quickly down to Poplar Grove Rd @ Poplar Grove Church. Not sure where your garbage dump road was, but possibly downhill from Russ Cornett, where it effectively wraps around Ayer's place en route to upper Poplar Grove Rd, beyond the northern end of Cone Park.

AO

[rocketsocks]

This is pretty much what happened to me. I got to Boone in '73 after getting out of the USAF and was on the GI Bill so ASU looked like a good bet. In fact, just before I got out of the Air Force I was sitting in a barracks in the Republic of Panama and made a short list of stuff to get when I got out: Kelty pack, sleeping bag and a pair of boots. At the time a Kelty pack cost $29.

Once in Boone I managed to get around 3 degrees but then the outdoor bug bit hard again (from an earlier "bite" in the 1950's/'60s) and by 1980 I was living outdoors on a permanent basis. Back then Watauga County was the "alaskan frontier" and the wild wild west (western NC that is) and a person could hike out of the Boone city limits and in a mile or two be camping in the woods. The Winklers Creek watershed was a favorite area to explore, backpack and camp.
Walter, I've been wondering this for years, please pardon my forwardness. What is it that prompted you to set up shop in the great outdoors, I mean was it the ever popular thinking of the day...tune in, turn on, drop out, or a financial decisions...or just simply something you yearned for?

PS.....I'm not gonna say you should write a book, but rather..."Man you could write a book" with all your story's of the early comings and goings of the hiker community back when.

[Grits]

TW Great report; when you came up 268A to Burnthouse Falls camp did you follow the fishermans trail up the creek to the MST/ or did you cut up the hill to connect to the MST east of upper creek? I have to add that for the ones that have never been there that 268A is a beast up the ridge just below Burnthouse camp site and with a 85 lb pack in the summer, man that is hardcore. When you follow the MST Greentown trail out to that first gate we camped there hunting the winter of 1970 in 2 feet of snow. What a great time. South Harper falls at the dog leg point you can lay out on the rocks and watch the creek flow by you.

AO and TW you are both correct on Rich Mtn. and the Temple location, just a little different directions in to it, locals call that ridge the Deer Park. Mr. Cone bought Rich Mtn. from the Colt family aka the six shooter manufacturers. Tore down the house and planted his apple orchards. You can still go into the valley between the watershed and Rich Mountain and not see anyone.

[Tipi Walter]

TW Great report; when you came up 268A to Burnthouse Falls camp did you follow the fishermans trail up the creek to the MST/ or did you cut up the hill to connect to the MST east of upper creek? I have to add that for the ones that have never been there that 268A is a beast up the ridge just below Burnthouse camp site and with a 85 lb pack in the summer, man that is hardcore. When you follow the MST Greentown trail out to that first gate we camped there hunting the winter of 1970 in 2 feet of snow. What a great time. South Harper falls at the dog leg point you can lay out on the rocks and watch the creek flow by you.

AO and TW you are both correct on Rich Mtn. and the Temple location, just a little different directions in to it, locals call that ridge the Deer Park. Mr. Cone bought Rich Mtn. from the Colt family aka the six shooter manufacturers. Tore down the house and planted his apple orchards. You can still go into the valley between the watershed and Rich Mountain and not see anyone.

Interesting questions regarding Burnthouse/Upper Creek. 268A sort of dead ends in the campsite at the bottom of Burnthouse Creek but the trail keeps going on the right bank upstream on Upper, as you know, and crosses the creek into a fine site I call Burnt Sock Camp. The creekside trail continues upstream now on the left bank and passes some very nice swimholes, the Moss Rock, the Big Boulder, and finally junctions with the MST/Greentown trail coming down from the left. Then you enter the old established car camps on the Greentown trail where the MST crosses Upper Creek.

30 years ago I used to see cars parked on the other side of Upper Creek by the old rusted steel rail, now in the creek.

And yes, it took me 30 years but I finally found and bushwacked the Burnthouse Shortcut from Burnthouse Camp up to the MST heading east. There's a faint logging cut leaving camp into doghobble and then it switches back to get on a little ridge finger to finish the climb up to the MST. A very neat trail providing an excellent shortcut. On my shortcut bushwack I got nailed by 5 yellow jackets---the hornets can get bad in old Piz.

The 268A "Beast" up the ridge before reaching Burnthouse Camp I call Heartbreak Ridge and it surely kicked my butt coming in on Day 1 with my 85lb pack. And now there are some terrible duck-walk blowdowns which really made it tough.

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2006/Into-Pisgah-with-Johnny-Be/i-5sKpRBf/0/L/61-4%20%20john-L.jpg
Here's my buddy Johnny B in '06 at the very start of the tough Heartbreak Ridge section of Trail 268A. He's already sweating and it's about to get much worse. Back in the '90s we went in on this trail in the snow on a nighthike with 2 flashlights for 3 people. Kept the "unlit" person sandwiched between us.

[rocketsocks]

Walter, I've been wondering this for years, please pardon my forwardness. What is it that prompted you to set up shop in the great outdoors, I mean was it the ever popular thinking of the day...tune in, turn on, drop out, or a financial decisions...or just simply something you yearned for?

PS.....I'm not gonna say you should write a book, but rather..."Man you could write a book" with all your story's of the early comings and goings of the hiker community back when.Well, going back through this trip report and other photo-logs, I think you've already answered this. I can't imagine the lessons you've learned from such an endeavor, I think it takes great fortitude to give up the confines of the traditional built home with it's climate control, windows, and other creature comforts and set up shop in a Tipi for years.

[Tipi Walter]

----------------------------------------------------

[Grits]

Tipi
Thanks for the information, after seeing you pictures I figured out the trail connection coming up from Burnthouse Ceek to the MST I just have never walked far enough up the creek. I typically do the .5 mile up the ridge to the MST. Thanks for taking us along.

[Tipi Walter]

Tipi
Thanks for the information, after seeing you pictures I figured out the trail connection coming up from Burnthouse Ceek to the MST I just have never walked far enough up the creek. I typically do the .5 mile up the ridge to the MST. Thanks for taking us along.

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpack-2014-Trips-152/22-Days-Pisgah-Holyland/i-HVkg2Kh/0/O/TRIP%20157%20553.jpg
If you look carefully at 268A you see how the map is wrong as the trail actually crosses Burnthouse Creek further down and exactly where Burnthouse junctions Upper. The map shows the trail about a hundred feet higher and away from Upper, therefore according to the map you'd be crossing Burnthouse right at the top of the 100 foot Burnthouse waterfall, or slightly upstream.

The "rugged" marked shortcut does junction off 268A where marked but slightly further south---as 268A as mentioned is right on Upper and parallel. The shortcut is a great way to leave Burnthouse Camp and get on the MST without having to stay on the Upper Creek trail and then crossing and going upstream for a half mile to another crossing on the Upper, and then the half mile hike to the shortcut exit on the MST.

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpack-2014-Trips-152/22-Days-Pisgah-Holyland/i-SNT7mbN/0/L/TRIP%20157%20467-L.jpg
Trivial info but you're looking down the MST trail above Burnthouse Camp where the shortcut trail comes out---on the bottom right of the pic and to the right of my hiking stick. Straight ahead the MST/Greentown trail heads east by northeast and crosses the upper reaches of Burnthouse Creek and finally the gate on FS 198.

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpack-2014-Trips-152/22-Days-Pisgah-Holyland/i-2BFXmKH/0/L/TRIP%20157%20518-L.jpg
What's neat is right where the shortcut comes out on the MST there's this little campsite. The shortcut trailhead here is barely marked with ribbon but further down it I used several fresh ribbons to mark the descent. But be warned---one switchback section has a large hornet nest.

[martinb]

Great report Walter. Enjoyed Patmans vid, too. Yet another area to put down on my to-hike list.

[gunner76]

Tipi...we might have crossed paths back in the 70's. I use to visit a friend up there at Banner Elk and we did a lot of hiking and camping all over the area.

Do you remember the original Footsloogers store ? Bought a lot of gear from them. Still using a NF Ibex sleeping bag I bought there.

[Tipi Walter]

Tipi...we might have crossed paths back in the 70's. I use to visit a friend up there at Banner Elk and we did a lot of hiking and camping all over the area.

Do you remember the original Footsloogers store ? Bought a lot of gear from them. Still using a NF Ibex sleeping bag I bought there.

I started living outdoors in Boone around 1978 and Footsloggers was my sole source of outdoor gear. In fact, I pretty much got fully outfitted with North Face gear from Footsloggers---my tent, my sleeping bags, my pack and my Thermarests.

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/BooneYears/Tipi-Life/i-ZG6Hdjh/0/L/Footsloggers%201977-L.jpg
The first item I bought from Footsloggers was this North Face Bigfoot polarguard bag in May of 1977, rated to 5F. It got me thru many cold Boone winter nights.

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/BooneYears/Tipi-Life/i-cvL9LTK/0/L/67%20old%20north%20face%20pack-L.jpg
Then I went to Footsloggers and got this now-vintage North Face pack called the Back Magic. It was my main load hauler for over 20 years until I upgraded to Dana Designs and Mystery Ranch.

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/BooneYears/Tipi-Life/i-2chtgbw/0/M/018_18_00-M.jpg
In '81 I went to Footsloggers and upgraded my Big Foot bag with this awesome North Face Ibex down bag rated at -10F. I'm showing it off to my parents in 1983 on a home visit to Greensboro from Boone. (BTW, the army shirt I am wearing with the SF patch was souvenired to me by a friend in 5th Group from Fort Bragg---I WAS NOT in any SF unit).

Anybody who went to Footsloggers knows of Hanes Boren the owner. I remember Sam Houston too who was the co-owner back in the 1970s and 80s. Back in "them" days you could bring something back and they handed you an exchange item with no cost and no questions asked. I remember once I went in with a blown thermarest and Sam grabbed a new one off the shelf and gave it to me and said, "Have a nice day."

Another time I brought in a blown Svea 123 stove and Sam tried to fix it and could not so he handed me a new one no charge. I bought a Chouinard Pyramid tipi-style tent and Sam gave it to me wholesale at $80.00. I used to backpack up Winklers Creek and would see Sam riding his bicycle to work in Boone on the Flannery Fork road.

Hanes sold Footsloggers recently to a friend after 41 years of business. See--
http://www2.wataugademocrat.com/News/story/Berrys-purchase-Footsloggers-id-009243

[Cadenza]

Wow! I also have a North Face "Bigfoot" from the early 1980's. I don't remember exactly,...but, I think I paid more than that for it.
Still have it and it's still in good shape. It's just too bulky. Takes up too much space in the pack.
But it did keep me warm in single digit weather.

[Grits]

"Hanes sold Footsloggers recently to a friend after 41 years of business."

Jason thru hiked the AT in 2003 I think and his crew is still some of the best in the area. They outfitted my daughter from baselayers to backpack for a spur of the minute hike on the Annapurna Base Camp Tail this past April and their knowledge to get her pack weight down made all the difference between a fun adventure of a lifetime from a miserable walk. Hanes is still enjoying the outdoors.

[rocketsocks]

I love seein' this old stuff.