View Full Version : My speer is eating me!!
I am just about finished making my speer. All that is left is the bug screen. Well, I set it up in the backyard the other day to test it out. I like it except the fact that the sides seem to want to close in like a cacoon. I wan't to be able to lay back and see the stars not hibernate. Does anyone have any suggestions for spreaders or similar? Maybe I did something wrong in the assembly process. I still want to be able to rock back and forth so I'm not too enthusiastic about guide ropes on the sides. Ideas anyone?
Thanks
Jason
Just Jeff
10-06-2005, 19:38
Don't hang it so tight and lay diagonally.
Hammock Hanger
10-06-2005, 20:32
...except the fact that the sides seem to want to close in like a cacoon.
JasonI love Ed but this is the reason I could not use that type of hammock.
Decrease the width from 5 feet to 4 feet. I've made 2 Speers, one 5 feet, one 4. I prefer the 4 footer because you're not buried in it. I can use a normal width sleeping bag around it with not too much air space above me.
this is what i prefer to hang in,a byer hammock in the cooler bugfree season
and ahenn.hammock non asym ultralite in warmer buggy season and my 8x8
jacksrbetter silnylon tarp its 11 x11 corner to corner,i love it,your speer hammock should open up if you dont hang it to tight and lay diagnal,:cool: neo
I still want to be able to rock back and forth so I'm not too enthusiastic about guide ropes on the sides. Ideas anyone?
Thanks
JasonYou could use guide ropes that are made of elastic cord. To a certain extent, I can sway in my HH because the side pull-outs are elastic. Just a thought.
Just Jeff
10-06-2005, 23:29
...because you're not buried in it.
Hrm...now there's an idea. Maybe I could get a silk one to match my tux and...
Youngblood
10-07-2005, 09:23
I am just about finished making my speer. All that is left is the bug screen. Well, I set it up in the backyard the other day to test it out. I like it except the fact that the sides seem to want to close in like a cacoon. I wan't to be able to lay back and see the stars not hibernate. Does anyone have any suggestions for spreaders or similar? Maybe I did something wrong in the assembly process. I still want to be able to rock back and forth so I'm not too enthusiastic about guide ropes on the sides. Ideas anyone?
Thanks
Jason
You're not using enough sag when you set up your hammock. If you increase the sag it should remedy the problem you describe... increasing the sag effectively shortens the distance between the ends of the hammock, drops the sides, reduces shoulder squeeze and makes lying on a diagonal more comfortable. There are limits to how much sag to use because it shortens the hammock and if the hammock is too short for you it isn't comfortable either... you'll notice excessive shoulder squeeze first.
A properly hung Speer hammock is very comfortable. The only reason I would change the width would be to save weight... and you may fool yourself on that if you use the Speer bugnet arrangement because an enclosed hammock (with bugnetting) requires a certain amount of girth to fit you comfortably. Are you aware that Ed Speer hosts the hammock camping site on Yahoo groups? You can ask him the question directly over there if you like. For what it is worth, I have an MSWord file posted over there on how I recommend hanging the Speer hammocks using low stretch suspension lines. You may have to be a member to view it, I'm not sure. But this is the link http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hammockcamping/files/Youngblood%27s/ and it is the last one currently on that list.
Youngblood
I'm about to try a Speer but I'm also worried about the cocoon factor. I just tried a HH. I'm sending it back because I don't like the bottom entry concept. I have a few questions about the Speer:
1. I'm only 5'10" but I'm wondering if the 8.5 will be more comfortable than the 8.0. It seemed like my head and feet were very close to the ends in the HH, even though I was laying diagonally.
2. Will the shape of the hammock affect how flat it lays? Will the "Pre-Made" Speer lay as flat as possible? Or is there a way I can make my own lie flatter?
3. I might want to put tie outs on the sides of the Speer (like on the HH), can you do that with the "Pre-Made" Speer or do I need to make my own?
4. Does adding a ridgeline like on the HH help you lie flatter? I'm trying to work the physics out in my head but I'm not sure what that ridgeline does. It seems like it would pull the hammock ends in towards the center and that might make it lie flatter.
One more thing I noticed. The HH is a diamond shape. It looks like in the pictures that the Speer is a rectangle. Does the diamond shape lie flatter?
Youngblood
10-08-2005, 11:15
I'm about to try a Speer but I'm also worried about the cocoon factor. I just tried a HH. I'm sending it back because I don't like the bottom entry concept. I have a few questions about the Speer:
1. I'm only 5'10" but I'm wondering if the 8.5 will be more comfortable than the 8.0. It seemed like my head and feet were very close to the ends in the HH, even though I was laying diagonally.
2. Will the shape of the hammock affect how flat it lays? Will the "Pre-Made" Speer lay as flat as possible? Or is there a way I can make my own lie flatter?
3. I might want to put tie outs on the sides of the Speer (like on the HH), can you do that with the "Pre-Made" Speer or do I need to make my own?
4. Does adding a ridgeline like on the HH help you lie flatter? I'm trying to work the physics out in my head but I'm not sure what that ridgeline does. It seems like it would pull the hammock ends in towards the center and that might make it lie flatter.
Welcome to the site.
A lot of what you ask is personal preference and you won't get unanimous answers from hammockers. (BTW, you missed a great opportunity to see some of the things you are questioning, trying them out for yourself and talking to different folks to get their perspective on these issues at the Southeast Hammock Hangers get together in Hot Springs, NC a few weeks ago.) With that said, here is my take:
1) Ed Speer recommends that his hammocks be 2 foot longer than you are tall, so the 8.0 would fit you. He also will tell you that longer is more comfortable. I'm 6 foot, have fairly broad shoulders, have too much time on my hands (retired), make my own hammock gear and have tried 8.0s, 8.5s, 9.0s and 10.0s... the longer ones are more comfortable. I think shoulder width is a factor as well as height because one of the first things you will notice if the hammock is too short is shoulder squeeze. I carry the 8.5 when I backpack... if I wanted to compare weights of all my gear and make it a contest to see who had the lightest gear I would take my 8.0. Be advised that tarp coverage is affected by hammock length, you won't be sticking out of an 8x10 tarp if you go to the 8.5, but you won't have quite as much overhang either. (Obviously, if you go much longer you will want to look at increasing the size of the tarp. BTW, the longest tarp that Ed Speer sells is an 8.5.)
2) I don't see an improvement on the way the pre-mades are put together, but some folks feel they get an improvement by not shortening the edges of the hammock. I have tried that and understand what they are talking about but also understand what the shortened edges do for you. I put the shortened edges in mine just like it is done in the pre-mades. I also use a full width hammock... if you use a narrower width to save weight it is likely a different story and you might not want to do that. See what I mean about personal preferences?
3) You can do what ever you want with your hammock but Hennessy patented several features of his hammocks and that is one of them. Brian had a hammock at Hot Springs where he had added a curved center pole to keep his hammock spread open... Brian lives in Florida and unfortunately has to typically deal with mosquitos when he camps and appreciates having the netting opened up. I don't usually camp in mosquito areas so it isn't much of an issue with me as I don't usually use the netting.
4) The integral ridgeline is another feature that Hennessy patented. It specifically sets the sag of the hammock as long as the suppension ropes are at less of a sag angle. I reference the sag angle to the horizon. When you tie off a hammock, there are several things you need to take into account. The sag, or sag angle, is one of them if you don't have an integral ridgeline. Without the integral ridgeline you set the sag of the hammock when you select the length of the hammock suppension lines. However, even with the integral ridgeline you need to select the length of the hammock suppension lines to center your hammock between the supports, so it is not something that most folks have too much of a problem with once they understand the process. You can get the same sag (which affects the flattness) without the internal ridgeline.
The Hennessy you have also has a patent on contructing the hammock bed on a bias to the fabric with the claim that it helps you lay flatter. Some folks say that they like that and others say the don't see that much of a difference. (Again, it would have been good for you to climb in some hammocks and see for yourself at Hot Springs.) One thing that does do, along with the bottom entry, is to 'encourage' you to lie with your feet to the right of center. Again, personel preference comes into play.
The good news: There are several fine backpacking hammocks.
The bad news: You have to choice and you don't often get the chance to try several of them out.
Hope hammocking works out for you and that you have a great time in the outdoors even if they don't.
Youngblood
4) The integral ridgeline is another feature that Hennessy patented. It specifically sets the sag of the hammock as long as the suppension ropes are at less of a sag angle. I reference the sag angle to the horizon. When you tie off a hammock, there are several things you need to take into account. The sag, or sag angle, is one of them if you don't have an integral ridgeline.
YoungbloodI'm still wondering if the integral ridgeline does more than that. Let me try to describe what I'm thinking. So we don't get terms confused when I refer to "hammock endpoints" I'm talking about where the end of the hammock attaches to the support rope not where the support rope attaches to the tree. Imagine hanging your "hammock endpoints", with some sag, to a 2X4 that is parallel to the ground and 5' above the ground. I'm wondering if that would be more comfortable than attaching the endpoints to support ropes with no ridgeline like you normally would. The reason is that when you attach to a support rope and then get in the hammock the ends are going to pull the hammock apart. This won't happen on the 2X4. I have no idea if this would effect the comfort level but if it did here's my next thought. To duplicate the "2X4" effect maybe you could use a stout integral ridgeline and REALLY tighten it with a trucker's hitch. Then when you get in the hammock the super tight ridgline would help keep the ends of the hammock from pulling apart when you get in it.
Then again maybe it's way more comfortable without the ridgeline. I don't have a clue!
Hope hammocking works out for you and that you have a great time in the outdoors even if they don't.
YoungbloodThanks! I've never tried "real" camping. I like to car camp, but I don't like the crowds and I love go on day hiking trips so I've always wanted to do this.
Chuck.
Youngblood
10-08-2005, 15:53
I'm still wondering if the integral ridgeline does more than that. ...
Just that and helps hold the bugnet off of you. The downside is that the integral ridgeline limits the hammocks usefulness as a sling chair... it makes you lean forward so it doesn't hit the back of your head. It doesn't directly effect comfort any more that setting the sag by selecting the proper hammock suppension cord length. Basically it helps some with setup since it sets the sag for you but hurts when you want to use it as a chair. It is a personal tradeoff... not everyone is going to see it the same way.
Youngblood
I like it except the fact that the sides seem to want to close in like a cacoon. I wan't to be able to lay back and see the stars not hibernate. Does anyone have any suggestions for spreaders or similar? Maybe I did something wrong in the assembly process. I still want to be able to rock back and forth so I'm not too enthusiastic about guide ropes on the sides. Ideas anyone?
The other factor besides sag (tightness vrs. looseness) is the bias put into the fabric bed. In the Speer book he folds the bed ends into an accordion and then pulls up the part corresponding to the sides to increase the side tension relative to the center--that's tension bias. You need it to keep you in the hammock. (Without it it's just as easy to roll out of the thing as to stay in it.) Too much bias and it's like sleeping in a slot canyon. Too little and the sides flop around, getting in your face. With none, you end up on the ground eventually.
For my winter hammock I've adapted an Eagle's Nest Double, hung loosely and with HH-style side tieout bungie installed. The extra sag lets me sleep off-axis, the extra width (around 6 feet) gives me room to be off-axis and keeps me in the hammock, the tieouts keep the hammock open. (I replaced the steel shackles with lighter aluminum wire-gate carabiners. These could be left home to save weight also.)
Doug Frost
Youngblood,
I just received my 8.5 Speer and tried it out. At first I had it too tight and got the shoulder sqeeze and the cocoon effect. As soon as I loosened it the sides "dropped" and it became very comfortable, exactly as you described! I think it's more comfortable than the Hennessy because there is no velcro strip. I was really impressed with everything except for one thing, the bug net. I don't like the velcro and the bug net was too close to my face. Maybe if the bug net was bigger and just draped over the sides it would work better? Luckily I don't plan on using it much during buggy weather.
Youngblood
10-15-2005, 18:36
Youngblood,
I just received my 8.5 Speer and tried it out. At first I had it too tight and got the shoulder sqeeze and the cocoon effect. As soon as I loosened it the sides "dropped" and it became very comfortable, exactly as you described! I think it's more comfortable than the Hennessy because there is no velcro strip. I was really impressed with everything except for one thing, the bug net. I don't like the velcro and the bug net was too close to my face. Maybe if the bug net was bigger and just draped over the sides it would work better? Luckily I don't plan on using it much during buggy weather.
Both the HH and the SH are very comfortable hammocks to me as they are made to accomodate the stretch of the nylon fabric when you lay on a slight diagonal. There are differences and it basically comes down to personel preferences. I don't use the bugnet much (mostly in my backyard) but don't have too much of a problem with the Velcro, but I spent some time figuring out how I wanted to handle it. Being a tinkerer, I have made bugnets that are almost a foot wider and find them more comfortable... but at the expense of weight, bulk and cost. But like I said above, I don't use the bugnet much and I really like the openness of the Speer... to me that is the best of camping, having the vantage point of the raised hammock and an unobstructed view of my surroundings.
Youngblood
Just Jeff
10-15-2005, 20:19
I really like the openness of the Speer... to me that is the best of camping, having the vantage point of the raised hammock and an unobstructed view of my surroundings.
I couldn't agree more. The strength of the HH is also its weakness - the integrated bugnet helps make it very light, but also restricts the views, ability to reach outside and do things like cook from the hammock, and even stops the breezes a little bit.
I hate laying in my HH when it's dark and hearing some wildlife, and then not being able to sit up and see it easily because of the bugnet. I don't have that problem in the Speer without the bugnet (well, other than the fact that it's dark...).
Plus, I find my homemade Speers more comfortable to lay in than the HH.
For my winter hammock I've adapted an Eagle's Nest Double, hung loosely and with HH-style side tieout bungie installed. The extra sag lets me sleep off-axis, the extra width (around 6 feet) gives me room to be off-axis and keeps me in the hammock, the tieouts keep the hammock open. (I replaced the steel shackles with lighter aluminum wire-gate carabiners. These could be left home to save weight also.)
Doug FrostThat thing looks comfortable! What kind of setup do you use with it (tarp,insulation)? It says it weighs 20oz. Does that include the straps and carabiners and everything?
http://www.eaglesnestoutfittersinc.com/doublehammock.html#dh
That thing looks comfortable! What kind of setup do you use with it (tarp,insulation)? It says it weighs 20oz. Does that include the straps and carabiners and everything?
That's the hammock. I strongly suggest replacing the included steel snap-link shackles with wire-gate carabiners. They weigh less, are easier to tie-off to, and more secure. (I use the Black Diamond Neutrino.) It's also possible to just tie to the loop directly. It makes up for the straps' weight.
Separate sylny trap topside, of course. Bug netting is just two panels sewn together with grosgrain and draped from a hanging line--no velcro. (To be lift behind once the freeze is in.) Cold protection is Ed Speer's Segmented Pad Extender x8 (i.e. the wider version) with an Exped DAM (and/or with Ed's excellent gray pads) and extra thickness padding for the wings. Down bag is either 20 or 0 degrees as needed. I chose the SPE/DAM/Bag combo because it's already in use successfully and because it allows a bailout-to-ground option for safety.
I'll be testing this winter in the Smokies and environs. I also expect to hang with the rest of the hammockers at Springer on New Year's Eve. Results to be posted on the Yahoo Hammock Campers group.
Doug Frost
Ramble~On
10-18-2005, 21:49
Hey Jason.
I don't have a Speer I have a Clark. Both are similar in the "Canoe" effect of the hammock "eatting" you. I sewed in some reinforced pole sleeve pockets and use some sections of fiberglass poles. This keeps the hammock stretched out and the bug netting up and away from me..it actually worked out a lot better than I thought it would. I am now on the lookout for 2 cheap fishing rods as the top section of the fishing rods will work as well as the fiberglass but with less weight.