Woman in Flip Flops falls off top of Kaaterskill Falls

[imscotty]

Link to story here, yes she died.

http://www.myfoxny.com/story/26163154/woman-plunges-to-death-over-cliff-in-catskills

I have climbed these falls and it is not anything I would ever try to do in footwear that did not have excellent traction. Please be careful out there.

[rocketsocks]

ah man, what a way to go...thanks for the report Scotty....that's awful. Condolences.

[Tron-Life]

Great. Another forum to ridicule people for their mistakes and armchair quarterback. I worked for OB so I understand the value of analyzing case studies but the tone of comments in threads like these are usually smug, callous, and superior. I just hope people don't use this tragedy for their own self-aggrandizement.

[Solitude501]

Reminder, that we all need to be careful. But accidents do happen and sharing stories like this, make it real.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Great. Another forum to ridicule people for their mistakes and armchair quarterback. I worked for OB so I understand the value of analyzing case studies but the tone of comments in threads like these are usually smug, callous, and superior. I just hope people don't use this tragedy for their own self-aggrandizement.


I think Scotty's post was reasonable, but I agree with you that these threads often get out of control. Folks posting need to remember that these news stories are about real people with families and that everything posted to this site can and will be found in google search results. Basically don't post any comments that you wouldn't be okay with the victim's family reading.

[Another Kevin]

This has been a hellish season for falls in the Catskills.

June 28: 54-year-old woman died in a fall from the (closed) trail that leads to the middle basin of Kaaterskill Falls.
June 30: 45-year-old woman fell off the Escarpment Trail near North Lake.
July 17: Another woman (I don't have details) fell off the Escarpment Trail near North Lake.
July 20: 19-year-old man fell to his death off Kaaterskill Falls.
July 24: 17-year-old woman fell from Fawn's Leap and sustained a spinal injury.
And now another fatal accident.

Prayers for all the victims and families, and for the valiant (and overworked, this season) SAR people.

DEC asks that hikers not attempt the closed trail at Kaaterskill Falls anywhere between the Laurel House site and the end of the yellow blazes at the base of the falls. Of course, nobody should attempt the Escarpment Trail without the Ten Essentials and proper footwear. Its spectacular views, combined with its proximity to the North-South Lakes campground, make it a magnet for the inexperienced, but the cliffs must be treated with respect. And cliff jumping from Fawn's Leap is an extremely hazardous undertaking. I seem to hear of at least one serious injury or death there every season.

For what it's worth, there are two 'death spots' at Kaaterskill Falls. The first is that a number of people have been swept over while attempting stunts near the brink of the upper falls. While the water is only inches deep, the shale bottom is quite slick and acts as a waterslide when someone falls. It's advisable to cross the stream well above the lip of the falls. The other spot is the trail that's just barely visible on the far bank in this winter photo, that circles the amphitheatre behind the upper falls. The spot where it turns the corner on the far bank is always wet with mist from the falls, and is severely eroded and quite slippery. The trail is closed because there is essentially no feasible way to stabilize it against further erosion, and the DEC considers it too hazardous to be considered hikable. Even confident and experienced hikers have fallen from it.

http://www.catskillmountaineer.com/images/waterfalls/LC-KF-04.jpg

The best views are to be had from the top of the falls and the base. Climbing to the middle tier is extraodinarily ill advised.
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/23/32949408_41e4c1fefc_z.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ke9tv/32949408/)
Kaaterskill Falls (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ke9tv/32949408/) by ke9tv (https://www.flickr.com/people/ke9tv/), on Flickr

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/22/31238286_676f1ddec2_z.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ke9tv/31238286/)
Katie at the edge (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ke9tv/31238286/) by ke9tv (https://www.flickr.com/people/ke9tv/), on Flickr

[Tipi Walter]

Many people get twisted and scared by rattlesnakes, but when I see people playing around the top of waterfalls I really get scared. And I've learned to back away and look up from the bottom.

[TNhiker]

Climbing to the middle tier is extraodinarily ill advised.



do you mean like the people in the photo have done?

[rocketsocks]

This has been a hellish season for falls in the Catskills.

June 28: 54-year-old woman died in a fall from the (closed) trail that leads to the middle basin of Kaaterskill Falls.
June 30: 45-year-old woman fell off the Escarpment Trail near North Lake.
July 17: Another woman (I don't have details) fell off the Escarpment Trail near North Lake.
July 20: 19-year-old man fell to his death off Kaaterskill Falls.
July 24: 17-year-old woman fell from Fawn's Leap and sustained a spinal injury.
And now another fatal accident.

Prayers for all the victims and families, and for the valiant (and overworked, this season) SAR people.

DEC asks that hikers not attempt the closed trail at Kaaterskill Falls anywhere between the Laurel House site and the end of the yellow blazes at the base of the falls. Of course, nobody should attempt the Escarpment Trail without the Ten Essentials and proper footwear. Its spectacular views, combined with its proximity to the North-South Lakes campground, make it a magnet for the inexperienced, but the cliffs must be treated with respect. And cliff jumping from Fawn's Leap is an extremely hazardous undertaking. I seem to hear of at least one serious injury or death there every season.

For what it's worth, there are two 'death spots' at Kaaterskill Falls. The first is that a number of people have been swept over while attempting stunts near the brink of the upper falls. While the water is only inches deep, the shale bottom is quite slick and acts as a waterslide when someone falls. It's advisable to cross the stream well above the lip of the falls. The other spot is the trail that's just barely visible on the far bank in this winter photo, that circles the amphitheatre behind the upper falls. The spot where it turns the corner on the far bank is always wet with mist from the falls, and is severely eroded and quite slippery. The trail is closed because there is essentially no feasible way to stabilize it against further erosion, and the DEC considers it too hazardous to be considered hikable. Even confident and experienced hikers have fallen from it.


The best views are to be had from the top of the falls and the base. Climbing to the middle tier is extraodinarily ill advised.
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/23/32949408_41e4c1fefc_z.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ke9tv/32949408/)
Kaaterskill Falls (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ke9tv/32949408/) by ke9tv (https://www.flickr.com/people/ke9tv/), on Flickr



I thought I'd seen this shot somewhere before. I understand the allure.


http://hrs-art.com/famous-hudson-river-school-locales/the-catskills-kaaterskill-falls/

[Another Kevin]

do you mean like the people in the photo have done?

Yes. That. As a photographer, I liked having them there to give scale to the picture (can you see that there are also people just to the left of the top of the upper falls?), but when I thought of the condition of the trail, I cringed to see them there.

[rocketsocks]

Great. Another forum to ridicule people for their mistakes and armchair quarterback. I worked for OB so I understand the value of analyzing case studies but the tone of comments in threads like these are usually smug, callous, and superior. I just hope people don't use this tragedy for their own self-aggrandizement.I understand where your comin' from, but forums, threads aren't the problem, people posts are, and each needs to be responsible for there own. I still want to be informed when things like this happen, it's really pretty necessary for the hiking community I think to hear this stuff.

[rocketsocks]

Yes. That. As a photographer, I liked having them there to give scale to the picture (can you see that there are also people just to the left of the top of the upper falls?), but when I thought of the condition of the trail, I cringed to see them there.
your photo is what started my brain to really see the vastness, I knew I had seen it somewhere before, but the photo in the article didn't show me what I saw in yours...namely because of the people for scale, it's a huge formation.

[Another Kevin]

I thought I'd seen this shot somewhere before. I understand the allure.

http://hrs-art.com/famous-hudson-river-school-locales/the-catskills-kaaterskill-falls/

I consciously intended the photograph to echo Cole's painting, right down to the building thunderstorm above the falls. Even though Cole's vantage point is now grown thick with vegetation and no longer has any view at all, I was pleased with the results I got from where I could stand.

Even the one man standing out at the edge on the right-hand side has a story. I tried enlarging this photo to poster size (it's an old enough picture that I took it on Ektacolor film!). When I examined it closely, it became pretty obvious what the guy is wearing, or rather isn't wearing. (It's pixelated out in the digital version, and blurred in the one that ran on the cover of an Ulster County travel guide.) It was only after I dealt with that little gaffe that I happened to notice that Cole's painting has a naked man - or perhaps he's wearing a loincloth - in nearly the same spot. Of course, he has feathers in his hair and is carrying a bow, and I guess that must make it OK.

[Another Kevin]

your photo is what started my brain to really see the vastness, I knew I had seen it somewhere before, but the photo in the article didn't show me what I saw in yours...namely because of the people for scale, it's a huge formation.

Over fifty feet taller than Niagara Falls.

[rocketsocks]

I consciously intended the photograph to echo Cole's painting, right down to the building thunderstorm above the falls. Even though Cole's vantage point is now grown thick with vegetation and no longer has any view at all, I was pleased with the results I got from where I could stand.

Even the one man standing out at the edge on the right-hand side has a story. I tried enlarging this photo to poster size (it's an old enough picture that I took it on Ektacolor film!). When I examined it closely, it became pretty obvious what the guy is wearing, or rather isn't wearing. (It's pixelated out in the digital version, and blurred in the one that ran on the cover of an Ulster County travel guide.) It was only after I dealt with that little gaffe that I happened to notice that Cole's painting has a naked man - or perhaps he's wearing a loincloth - in nearly the same spot. Of course, he has feathers in his hair and is carrying a bow, and I guess that must make it OK.sent ya a PM.


Over fifty feet taller than Niagara Falls.
...that's an impressive shot.

[Traveler]

I understand where your comin' from, but forums, threads aren't the problem, people posts are, and each needs to be responsible for there own. I still want to be informed when things like this happen, it's really pretty necessary for the hiking community I think to hear this stuff.

Have to agree here. Accidents of this type draw attention due to the information they can provide. What better way to learn how others mitigate the many hazards of the back country through discussion. Around the collective campfire here we can learn a lot, even when it may not be elegantly stated.

[Another Kevin]

Have to agree here. Accidents of this type draw attention due to the information they can provide. What better way to learn how others mitigate the many hazards of the back country through discussion. Around the collective campfire here we can learn a lot, even when it may not be elegantly stated.

That's why I was sharing the information about the other accidents, and how they all seem to be clustered in the same handful of places. This area is my home turf, and visitors might not be aware of the specific hazards. It's astonishingly tough (and sometimes dangerous) hiking if you've come to think that all of New York is like Harriman.

[rocketsocks]

That's why I was sharing the information about the other accidents, and how they all seem to be clustered in the same handful of places. This area is my home turf, and visitors might not be aware of the specific hazards. It's astonishingly tough (and sometimes dangerous) hiking if you've come to think that all of New York is like Harriman.
that article says it looks like she slipped on some loose rock. Many times a place may be safe to stand, but the little sandy type stones can act like a very fine coating of ball bearings...so a place that seems like it has good purchase and not particularly airy or exposed can have hidden dangers that many may not look for or even be aware of...moss and algae (slippery rocks) are another common fall hazard. It should be said that most hiking accidents are falls...#1 reason.

[rocketsocks]

Like Thomas Cole over one hundred years ago, If I were to come across this feature in the woods, one of my first thoughts would be..."I wanna see what's up there" no one can fault the human spirit and what drive us, it'a inate...It's just a terrible tragic accident.

[imscotty]

@ Kevin... That is a fantastic photo. I have tried to photograph those falls and nothing I have taken could compare to yours. Well done.

I have climbed to the middle section of the falls and like you said it was very ill advised. Fortunately I had the sense to stop before it got too hairy, but many of the other hikers that day seemed to have no fear and no sense.

I did not know about the all the accidents at the escarpment this year. The footing there is much better but a careless trip could still be fatal. I was astounded to see parents with small children coming up from North South Lake to the escarpment trail with the children running well ahead of them on the trail. Yikes!

My family has had great fun at the Fawn's Leap swim hole in the past, but I must say it is becoming crazier there with every year. I would hate to see the alcohol fueled partiers cause the swim hole to be shut down entirely..

@ Tron-Life... I appreciate your concerns. I am aware that family members may find these posts someday and always try to be respectful. I agree with RocketSocks that we can all learn something from these tragedies. Hopefully our discussions will focus on what it takes to keep hikers safe.

Many years ago I had a neighbor that fell from the top of Arethusa Falls in the White Mountains. It happened exactly as Kevin described, crossing over near the top in shallow water with slick rocks. No room for error there. I hope everyone always treat the top of falls with great respect. If you must cross over the top, cross well upstream.

[Another Kevin]

that article says it looks like she slipped on some loose rock. Many times a place may be safe to stand, but the little sandy type stones can act like a very fine coating of ball bearings...so a place that seems like it has good purchase and not particularly airy or exposed can have hidden dangers that many may not look for or even be aware of...moss and algae (slippery rocks) are another common fall hazard. It should be said that most hiking accidents are falls...#1 reason.

The rock there is alternating layers of fairly hard sandstone and soft mudstone. The mudstone is all rotten and crumbles underfoot. It's not just the little gravel - the rock itself is unsound. That's what keeps the waterfall so steep. The mudstone is constantly eroding out from under it while the sandstone caprock lasts longer. The rock climbers give the whole Escarpment a wide berth because protection pulls right out of that garbage. The technical ice climbers love Kaaterskill Falls, but only once there's a solid ice column - dry tooling that rotten stone is insane.

[Rain Man]

Sorry, but nothing to do with the AT and should not be posted on WhiteBlaze.

Rain Man

.

[Lugnut]

Many conversations on Whiteblaze have nothing to do with the AT. Nothing wrong with that. Lighten up.

[HooKooDooKu]

Sorry, but nothing to do with the AT and should not be posted on WhiteBlaze.
Sorry Rainman, got to disagree with you there. While the AT might have been the genesis for this website, from what I can tell, it has become THE go-to message board for all things related to hiking... even if the top forum is labeled "Appalachain Trail Forums"

[rocketsocks]

Sorry, but nothing to do with the AT and should not be posted on WhiteBlaze.

Rain Man

.
I'd like to make an argument for this kinda information, perhaps if it were moved to a different forum, either "Other trails" (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?105-Other-Trails) (as I assume there is some kinda trail to lead one to such a picturesque spot) or "General Non-AT talk" (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?361-General-Non-AT-Talk)

I think having a Incident or Accident Reports type section would/could be a helpful forum, be it the Appalachian Trail or abroad.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Sorry, but nothing to do with the AT and should not be posted on WhiteBlaze.

Rain Man

.

It must be quite a burden...

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png

[Traveler]

I'd like to make an argument for this kinda information, perhaps if it were moved to a different forum, either "Other trails" (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?105-Other-Trails) (as I assume there is some kinda trail to lead one to such a picturesque spot) or "General Non-AT talk" (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?361-General-Non-AT-Talk)

I think having a Incident or Accident Reports type section would/could be a helpful forum, be it the Appalachian Trail or abroad.

Great concept. Aviation has this kind of material available to everyone, not just pilots for example. Accidents typically have several links to the chain of events that resulted in harm or death, recognition of the links involved are important for accident prevention. Some people do things that are dangerous out of ignorance to the potential for injury or death. Ignorance is curable with information, which makes the collective body here one of the best means of sharing that information. Its less morbid curiosity that compels us to discuss this event, or missing hikers, etc, than it is a desire to understand how it happened.

[Ender]

Guys, please keep this thread on topic, which is about the unfortunate hiker who lost her life.

If you feel that a thread is in the wrong place, 100% use the report button, do not clutter up threads with this. If we the mods decide to move the thread, we will. For now, I'm keeping this thread here, despite it not being 100% AT related, it's a cautionary tale. So move along.

[rocketsocks]

Guys, please keep this thread on topic, which is about the unfortunate hiker who lost her life.

If you feel that a thread is in the wrong place, 100% use the report button, do not clutter up threads with this. If we the mods decide to move the thread, we will. For now, I'm keeping this thread here, despite it not being 100% AT related, it's a cautionary tale. So move along.
...got cha, thanks Ender.

[MuddyWaters]

When confronted with an unfamiliar environment, some people do not assess risk well. Vertical terrain and waterfalls are examples or environments that the average person has no experience with. They are unaware of force of !moving water, slippery water polished rocks, etc.

[magneto]

+1 MuddyWaters!

Perhaps you have read "Deep Survival" by Laurence Gonzales? A central thesis in his book and a huge factor in many mountaineering accidents.

[Snowleopard]

AK, that's 3 fatalities at Kaaterskill Falls this year? That's awful! I had heard it was dangerous but that's really bad.

[Traveler]

AK, that's 3 fatalities at Kaaterskill Falls this year? That's awful! I had heard it was dangerous but that's really bad.

As a matter of curiosity, are there more reported injuries/deaths of this sort this year than in previous years along the established AT, PCT, CT, or other long distance trails? How does one go about finding that out?

[imscotty]

Hello AT Traveler. This happened in the Catskills, not on the AT or any other long distance trail. There is a campground nearby popular with car campers from NYC and the surrounding area and I think one of the problems is the Falls attracts people inexperienced with the outdoors and unable to judge the dangers.

In terms of statistics for accidents on the long distance trails, I do not know of any organized efforts to track that information.

[Another Kevin]

According to the Windham Journal (http://www.columbiagreenemedia.com/windham_journal/news/article_28506822-1818-11e4-8f97-0019bb2963f4.html), this incident was the 19th search-and-rescue callout that Greene County has had on the hiking trails this year - and ten of them were at Kaaterskill Falls. Apparently it was only the second identified as a fatality - in the other three accidents that I mentioned earlier, apparently the victims lived. The only newspaper account I saw of the July 20 accident, the young man was reported only to have suffered "extensive" head injuries, and the Fawn's Leap accident, the victim suffered a spinal fracture. Neither of the falls from the Escarpment near North Lake was fatal. I think that the total number of SAR missions was fairly typical. Any time you have that many people visiting one spot, they'll have their share of medical emergencies, minor injuries, and the like, and any first aid that the authorities have to render at Kaaterskill Falls will be a search-and-rescue incident.

The south side of the Escarpment - from the falls east to North Point or so - is popular with visitors, partly because of the proximity of the North-South Lake campground. Any time I've been hiking near the place in summer, I've been interacting with city folk who don't know what they're doing. Many is the time I've had to point out the trail back to the campground, or give someone some TP, the loan of a trowel and a squirt of hand sanitizer (and explain that no, there really isn't a privy closer than the bathhouse a few miles back), or explain near the start of the rock scrambles that the rest of the trail is like that, it's in the mountains after all. These spots get more than their share of accidents, first because of the sheer numbers of people and second because so many of the people there have never hiked before and aren't prepared to do it safely in vertical terrain.

[Another Kevin]

Hello AT Traveler. This happened in the Catskills, not on the AT or any other long distance trail.

Just for pedantry, the top of Kaaterskill Falls is a short blue-blaze off the NY Long Path. But you're right, it hasn't been on the NY Long Path since the trail up the falls was closed - in the 1960s? The NY Long Path now climbs the Escarpment from Palenville on the old wagon road that George Harding built to serve the Hotel Kaaterskill.

For what it's worth, the NY LP has actually got some attention in recent years. With the new sections in the Catskills, there's now a 120-mile section from south of Peekamoose all the way to Conesville that is off road except for short sections of roadwalk to cross bridges in Phoenicia, Palenville and Windham. That part is an awesome trail, visiting twelve of the Catskill 35 summits and a lot of lesser peaks, with many striking views. Most of the rest of the NYLP is pretty bad, with lots of roadwalks and either boring or poorly maintained sections, but the Bear Mountain/Harriman/Schunemunk, Catskill and Helderberg sections are now really nice. (The Catskill section is also seriously tough.)

[Seatbelt]

As a matter of curiosity, are there more reported injuries/deaths of this sort this year than in previous years along the established AT, PCT, CT, or other long distance trails? How does one go about finding that out?
This intersts me as well. One reason is that on a shuttle ride in NC one time, the shuttle driver was telling me that almost every day they have to send rescue teams up the AT from the NOC to rescue an injured hiker coming down from Wesser. He mentioned that they had 2 that particular morning. I just wondered if he was exagerating or ??

[imscotty]

http://www.nynjtc.org/event/catskills-public-scoping-meeting-updates-and-amendments-kaaterskill-wild-forest-unit

[imscotty]

Note the Meeting above will include a discussion on proposals to increase 'resource protection' and 'public safety' and will also provide an opportunity for public input. I agree that they need to better discourage access to the middle tier of the falls. I hope they do not try to close down 'Fawn's Leap,' my family has a lot of fun every year at that swim hole.

[rocketsocks]

...and here's whats on the slate for discussion.




Safety improvements to the current Kaaterskill Falls Trail and the development of a new trail that connects the existing Escarpment Trail and the Kaaterskill Falls Trail in a safe and efficient manner (without bringing hikers closer to Kaaterskill Falls);
The completion of the Kaaterskill Rail Trail (KRT) near the top of the Kaaterskill Falls through the construction of a pedestrian bridge over Lake Creek, which will provide a safe crossing for visitors above Kaaterskill Falls and facilitate hiker traffic along the KRT, the Escarpment Trail, and any future Escarpment/Kaaterskill Falls Trails connections;

http://blog-tw.nynjtc.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/IMG_1482-300x225.jpg (http://blog-tw.nynjtc.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/IMG_1482.jpg)Improving pedestrian access is a priority.

The creation of a weekend shuttle service to reduce parking pressure in the clove;

Improvements to pedestrian safety along Route 23A;
The deployment by the Trail Conference and the Catskill Conservation Corps of a combination of paid and volunteer trail and resource stewards in the area to educate visitors, help protect natural resources, and help to ensure the safety of hikers and visitors. Paid stewards require identifying funding sources.
Providing DEC more resources to increase public education and patrols in the area by Forest Rangers, Assistant Forest Rangers and Student Conservation Corps Backcountry Stewards