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Gunner1776
08-08-2014, 21:59
I was curious if a winter NOBO thru hike starting this late has EVER been done. Granted, there is the Oct 15/Khatadin problem, but I was just curious to see all of the issues that one may bump into leaving this late.

Malto
08-08-2014, 22:05
There have been SoBo starts as late as mid October so it is possible alternative. But, a low probability for most.

kayak karl
08-08-2014, 22:32
it will get colder as you go north and the days will get shorter ;)

Tron-Life
08-09-2014, 19:16
You might be able to do a thru hike during winter conditions, but definitely not in one season. The real issue, as I see it, would be the distances between resupplies since traveling on snow takes way longer; you would be lucky to do 10 miles a day and would probably be doing closer to 5 on the AT. Also, hiking in snowshoes is hard, exhausting, and not that fun after doing if for days on end. I did a short section of NJ from High Point to Delwater Gap during late January with full winter gear, and even that relatively moderate section was pretty brutal after a few days. I averaged about 6 miles a day and had to bring all my food since their are no good resupply spots along that stretch of the trail, which brings up the problem of having to carry massive amount of food with you because you could easily be trapped by bad weather. The margin for error during the winter is very small so be careful.

Dogwood
08-09-2014, 20:10
It may depend on how you define an AT thru-hike. If starting now I'd go SoBo starting at Mt K or leap frog or some combination of traveling directions. I'd prefer not hitting the upper Northeast after mid Nov at the latest going NoBo which is probably what you'd be doing at a typical AT thru-hiker pace. Some travel might just be cold but I'd think you'd be risking encountering questionable weather doing a straight NOBO at some pt. that will take you off the trail for periods sometimes lengthy in duration.

Slo-go'en
08-10-2014, 11:11
I was curious if a winter NOBO thru hike starting this late has EVER been done. Granted, there is the Oct 15/Khatadin problem, but I was just curious to see all of the issues that one may bump into leaving this late.

It would be easier to trek across the Arctic then to hike the AT through New England in the dead of winter. Once there is consistent snow and ice on the trail, the going becomes very, very slow - 1/4 mile an hour if you lucky, 100 yards an hour if your not. Under these conditions your not even going to make it shelter to shelter.

So, if you were to start a NOBO thru hike about now (early August), you might make it about half way. Winter thru hiking (Jan/Feb/March) is done
in the south and most people can't even handle that for very long.

Feral Bill
08-10-2014, 11:49
If you left southbound around Labor Day you could hit major winter conditions in the mid Atlantic states where it might be feasable to continue on to a spring finish in the southern mountains. It would depend on that years weather and on your abilities.

Gunner1776
08-10-2014, 12:25
Thank you guys...Basically, I am just trying to analyze the situation before I even consider it. I think waiting until January (at least) may be best. Sometimes family life breaks down and it just pushes you there quicker. I will definitely try not to make rash decisions that can risk my life. I don't think I am experienced enough, nor in the shape to begin a winter thru-hike. I think leaving in January may be hard enough. I truly appreciate all of your opinions and knowledge. I have been lurking on this site for years and appreciate that some of you veterans of the trail on here chose to answer my question.

Thank you guys!

bigcranky
08-10-2014, 14:37
The thing is this, you'll be hitting New England in November. Unless you have been hiking over the White Mountains in winter, you really can't conceive of what that looks like. It's not normal winter, it's more like trying to walk across Antarctica in a storm, but worse because it's vertical and the weather is much worse. That's what Maine will be like, too, and that's before you get to Baxter State Park and have to prove to the rangers you have the training and equipment to attempt a solo ascent of Katahdin, which there is no way they will allow in any case.

Some folks do start at Springer on January 1, so it can be done. It's usually slower due to weather and daylight, and because you don't want to get to New England during mud season when they don't want you on the trails at all (so, don't get to Vermont before Memorial Day. Easy enough.) Winters in the Southern Appalachians aren't anything like New Hampshire, but they aren't like winters in the lower elevations, either, so you'll need a whole different set of gear and clothing from January through about the middle of March. The good news is that you can get some winter experience by driving up to North Georgia and doing some hiking in December; also, you can go to Neels Gap and get some excellent advice on the gear and clothing you'll need from the outfitter there. (They specialize in long distance hiking.)

Sorry to hear about your situation. If you absolutely have to get on the trail right now :) then you could easily start hiking at Harper's Ferry and walk south to Springer. It's a great three month hike using normal gear, and will give you the fall in the South, which is my favorite season to hike around here. You'll most likely finish around Thanksgiving, if you hike at an average pace, and if you still need to be on a trail after that, then you'll have the experience to hike the Florida National Scenic Trail, which most people start around January 1. That takes several months (and has some logistical issues but their web site explains all) but it's definitely on my hiking bucket list. Once that's done, you could then head back to Harper's Ferry and hike north to Katahdin around the first of May next year. :)

Good luck and hope it all works out for the best.

kayak karl
08-10-2014, 15:45
Thank you guys...Basically, I am just trying to analyze the situation before I even consider it. I think waiting until January (at least) may be best. Sometimes family life breaks down and it just pushes you there quicker. I will definitely try not to make rash decisions that can risk my life. I don't think I am experienced enough, nor in the shape to begin a winter thru-hike. I think leaving in January may be hard enough. I truly appreciate all of your opinions and knowledge. I have been lurking on this site for years and appreciate that some of you veterans of the trail on here chose to answer my question.

Thank you guys! January is hard in the south. February is worse. First two weeks of March can kick butt too.

Gunner1776
08-10-2014, 17:10
Sorry to hear about your situation. If you absolutely have to get on the trail right now :) then you could easily start hiking at Harper's Ferry and walk south to Springer. It's a great three month hike using normal gear, and will give you the fall in the South, which is my favorite season to hike around here. You'll most likely finish around Thanksgiving, if you hike at an average pace, and if you still need to be on a trail after that, then you'll have the experience to hike the Florida National Scenic Trail, which most people start around January 1. That takes several months (and has some logistical issues but their web site explains all) but it's definitely on my hiking bucket list. Once that's done, you could then head back to Harper's Ferry and hike north to Katahdin around the first of May next year. :)

Good luck and hope it all works out for the best.


The Florida Trail is DEFINITELY something that I have pondered doing during the winter before Thru-Hiking season starts for the AT. Truth is that I am getting divorced, so I know FOR SURE that if I truly want my dream to happen, I have to do it NOW (or at least, get started). She is gonna get the house and chances are that I will be leaving my job. With that being the case, I will take the money saved and either move into my own place, OR live a dream. Truthfully, I want to hike all of the trails, but I am not going to get ahead of myself and look past the FIRST of them trails (The AT). I think I have enough money saved to actually complete the Triple Crown, Florida Trail, and maybe even the ADT if I choose to. Like I said, I don't want to get ahead of myself nor make idiotic claims that many do all of the time, only to look like an internet hiker after they fall short or never start.

My issues with the Florida trail seems to be RESUPPLY. I don't believe there are post offices along the way. HOWEVER, things are cheaper down here in Florida, so it shouldn't be much of an issue.

I know that many people have DIFFERENT reasons for hiking the trail and some may frown on my reasons and not consider them pure enough. Am I using the trails as a crutch? Probably. However, to me, my outlook is simple....Inside of a marriage, we have many different responsibilities that make it tough to get away for these type of dreams. We only get a few chances in our lives to ACTUALLY do it. But then again, not many people feel the urge to live in a TENT for years at a time either. I would like to accomplish something (for myself) to be honest. I guess that is why I was originally willing to leave in the winter. To me, the risks was worth it. However, the Florida Trail seems much more logical for the winter. Thank you for reminding me of that.

I only explained that because you said "Sorry to hear" about my situation. I thank you for that, but to be honest, this situation may have been the VERY THING that saves my life and motivates me to accomplish more than I already have. Marriage tends to put some of us on our couch a little more than we should be. It also tends to make us focus on everyone else's accomplishments more than our own. This is a chance to escape that and not only do some exercising, but also accomplish a personal goal. I look forward to the freedom and luxury that the woods can actually be.

Thank you for your well wishes....I appreciate it.

Gunner1776
08-10-2014, 17:10
January is hard in the south. February is worse. First two weeks of March can kick butt too.

So is marriage....lol

Wülfgang
08-11-2014, 10:57
Gunner, I will agree with the others here:

I do not think attempting a winter thru is a wise idea for someone who lives in Florida with NO previous backpacking experience.

You are caught up in the 'romance' of the trail and right now you see it as the perfect segue into a new life. I can definitely relate and I'm not trying to stifle your dream; just encouraging you to postpone it for a few months.

Much is made about the east and how tough the winters are, blah blah blah. IMO nothing is as potentially lethal as the high moutain west, except for other similarly austere environments like the sea or the desert.

HOWEVER--the east, particularly the northeast, is not to be underestimated. It is wet, winters are long, cold, and grey in the north, and temps can be bitter. Combine that with snowpack and mud season in New England until mid-late April, and you have the makings for a long, tough trip. As others mentioned your mileage will be low and your pack weight will be high. You will have plenty of solitude, however.

Don't take this as a challenge, take it as a warning from someone who has experienced winter travel. Your risk of attrition will be high. If you decide to go anyway, just know that you probably wont fully realize what you've jumped into until you are out there. Waiting until March at least will assure you more fair weather and more pleasurable hiking.

Gunner1776
08-11-2014, 13:17
Wulfgang, I do not consider it a challenge. I consider it solid advice. I am actually now leaning towards setting off for the Florida Trail and thru-hiking it prior to the Appalachian Trail in March.

#1 - It will give me the experience needed to hike the AT (despite it's lack of elevation)
#2 - It will buy me time until there is a safer time for me to hike the AT. (I want to enjoy the AT while I am there)

Now, can things change? Sure. I may get hard headed. However, I have listened to many of the old timers and hiking vets on here. I am not a know it all that will go against solid advice. The only thing that may change my mind is whether I am forced to or not. I am going through some things at home that may force me out sooner than later. With that said, I will try not to make a foolish decision. Either way, I am leaving for ONE of the trails....

Logic tells me to hit the Florida Trail first. I thank you truly for your advice my friend.

Dogwood
08-11-2014, 13:40
While hiking the Florida Trail may be great it seems so many easterners recognize that trail as the only trail to winter hike. IMO, that's a narrow mindset. I suggest you consider a wider range of hiking trail options should you decide you need to get out hiking in the fall or winter. For example, consider for a winter Jan/Feb start: Pinhoti Trail NoBo to Benton McKaye Tr where you connect with the AT either at Springer Mt or in GSMNP, Palmetto Tr(go NOBO), Mountains to Sea Tr(starting at Jockeys Ridge), Foothills Tr, Ouachita Tr, etc. Those are just some options.

bigcranky
08-11-2014, 14:24
Gunner,

Understood. Please don't be concerned about anyone's opinion of your reasons for hiking -- there are *many* people on the trail going through major life changes, including divorce, so you will hardly be alone out there.

With regards to the Florida Trail, I think you are correct in identifying resupply as a major issue. There are several reasons for this (remoteness, lack of trail/town culture/difficulty in hitchhiking) but they can be overcome. I do think the conventional wisdom is to do the FT as a second thru-hike, and learn how to do all the logistical stuff on an easier trail first, which is one reason I suggested doing the southern half of the AT this fall, but you could certainly learn all you needed with a shorter AT hike. Say, three or four weeks in TN/NC or Southwest Virginia.

Again, good luck and take it easy.

--BC

Gunner1776
08-11-2014, 15:08
While hiking the Florida Trail may be great it seems so many easterners recognize that trail as the only trail to winter hike. IMO, that's a narrow mindset. I suggest you consider a wider range of hiking trail options should you decide you need to get out hiking in the fall or winter. For example, consider for a winter Jan/Feb start: Pinhoti Trail NoBo to Benton McKaye Tr where you connect with the AT either at Springer Mt or in GSMNP, Palmetto Tr(go NOBO), Mountains to Sea Tr(starting at Jockeys Ridge), Foothills Tr, Ouachita Tr, etc. Those are just some options.

Thank you so much for that. I love those options, because I am sure the terrain would be more like the AT than the Florida Trail obviously...

Gunner1776
08-11-2014, 15:13
Gunner,

Understood. Please don't be concerned about anyone's opinion of your reasons for hiking -- there are *many* people on the trail going through major life changes, including divorce, so you will hardly be alone out there.

With regards to the Florida Trail, I think you are correct in identifying resupply as a major issue. There are several reasons for this (remoteness, lack of trail/town culture/difficulty in hitchhiking) but they can be overcome. I do think the conventional wisdom is to do the FT as a second thru-hike, and learn how to do all the logistical stuff on an easier trail first, which is one reason I suggested doing the southern half of the AT this fall, but you could certainly learn all you needed with a shorter AT hike. Say, three or four weeks in TN/NC or Southwest Virginia.

Again, good luck and take it easy.

--BC

Thanks man, that ALSO sounds like a great idea. The Florida wilderness is definitely a different beast than the AT. The trail here is less popular, so it doesnt have the maintenance or amenities that the AT does.....No shelters (which I don't need anyway), towns are DISTANCES away from the trail, no post offices along the trail.....Not to mention the heat. It would SUCK to get caught out in this heat with a pack and no resupply anywhere. I have been studying the AT for years, so I feel like I know it like the back of my hand (which I obviously dont)....The Florida Trail is a whole new situation. The problem with the FT for me would be the fact that I would have to take my mind off the AT and begin LEARNING and STUDYING the FT....that could take a while. Most of my studies have been on the big 3 over the past few years. (AT, CDT, PCT)

Doing the South of the AT in the Fall may be a good plan....Then once I got up to NE, I could get off for a small period while the weather gets better. Not sure. Either way, I am sure this is gonna be one hell of an adventure.

lemon b
08-12-2014, 19:37
My friend Just Brian did The Lady to Dawsonville from Oct to Feb. in 2008. Never seen him on anything but a bike or walking in as long as I've known him. Did it with no local fanfare either and chose that time because the bike shop was slow.

Another Kevin
08-12-2014, 21:29
It would be easier to trek across the Arctic then to hike the AT through New England in the dead of winter. Once there is consistent snow and ice on the trail, the going becomes very, very slow - 1/4 mile an hour if you lucky, 100 yards an hour if your not. Under these conditions your not even going to make it shelter to shelter.

True on "not make it from shelter to shelter", but 1/4 mile an hour is a little bit of an exaggeration on the 'lucky' side. When we Northerners are out in the winter in peak-bagging mode, we can usually make better time than that on snowshoes or skis (or crampons after the trails turn to snowcrete).

If you were talking about the rate of progress when postholing, as a snowshoer I ask, please don't do that. If you do it inadvertently, please backfill your postholes. Postholes in the trail make it unsafe for the hikers and skiers that come after you. (Here in New York, you can even get a ticket for it.) I hate tripping over postholes, and it's ten times worse when everyone has been doing it and packed the trail into a skating rink.

On the other hand, the 'unlucky' side is NO exaggeration. Winter conditions can make it impossible to move at all! There was once back in the 1970s that I spent several hours huddled under a tarp on the downwind side of a cairn on Moosilauke, waiting out a high wind with heavy snow and whiteout. In June.

Remember also that Beaver Brook is a technical ice climb in the winter. At least I wouldn't do it without ice tools, a helmet and a belay. (Which means at this point that I wouldn't do it, because I haven't done that stuff in too many years and would have to learn all over again.)