View Full Version : back up for canister
squeezebox
08-16-2014, 21:44
if you carry a canister stove do you carry some type of backup in case the canister runs dry ??
I can think of a few, tin can wood stove, vegatable can stuffed with twigs and such
OH can stove with a bit of OH to carry, esbit tabs, etc.
Old Hiker
08-16-2014, 21:57
Yep. My backup is a 4 oz canister to supplement my 4 oz canister. Almost ran out in the Smokies. The Fontana store didn't have any, but I bought one off a guy who had an extra.
EDITED: wrong size. 4 oz is the smallest, I believe.
bigcranky
08-16-2014, 22:11
I think that's the major drawback of a canister stove - the need to carry a second canister some or much of the time on longer hikes. That means you're carrying two complete fuel containers which can't be refilled or reused.
That said, I've become pretty adept at figuring out how much fuel is left and getting a new canister just before it runs out.
BuckeyeBill
08-17-2014, 00:00
I went with the MSR Whisper-Lite Universal. It uses both Isobutane canister and white gas, kerosene and unleaded gasoline. It also comes with a inversion stand for the canister so you can get all the fuel out of it. I plan to carry only one canister at a time and a few ounces of white gas just in case.
I carry one Esbit tab in my "just in case" bag. Never had to use it but it's there. I was a Boy Scout-be prepared.
urbansix
08-17-2014, 08:46
I too carry a couple of Esbit tabs just in case. Came in handy when I miscalculated canister fuel efficiency due to the cold.
garlic08
08-17-2014, 09:16
Another "backup" idea is to carry a few dinners that don't absolutely have to be cooked, like instant mashed potatoes, couscous, instant refried beans or Ramen noodles, or some extra cold cereal, nuts, or bread and cheese.
dangerdave
08-17-2014, 09:45
Tortillas with peanut butter and raisins for backup meals if your canister runs out early. That's my plan.
Wood. The ever present fuel stretcher/back up.
Wayne
saltysack
08-17-2014, 16:51
Another "backup" idea is to carry a few dinners that don't absolutely have to be cooked, like instant mashed potatoes, couscous, instant refried beans or Ramen noodles, or some extra cold cereal, nuts, or bread and cheese.
Had my can lose pressure/low fuel during a cold winter hike....I always carry things that can be eaten cold...ie
Pbj
Tortilla
Tuna pkts
Nutella
Cliff bars
I still bring my canister as I like hot coffee etc but don't really need...
Starchild
08-17-2014, 18:09
Yogi is my primary backup method for canisters. They have been so dependable and predictable and even the smallest one lasts so darn long that I have never had to use this backup, so I am glad this backup does not weight anything.
If in towns/resupply that do not have them (very rare on the AT), I have found I can use alcohol (if I have a tea light candle holder or other container) or Esbit if I really needed to so I could leave with that in a pinch.
squeezebox
08-18-2014, 10:22
Do you have to bring a stand for esbit? I'm thinking that a wad of Al foil on top of the canister burner might keep the burner from over heating and warping.
Or is that even any kind of issue at all?
I always carry a extra canister, if you don't want that extra weight just carry a couple Esbit tabs, the way I use esbit is I take three tent stakes place them in a triangle fashion push them into the ground about an inch above the esbit tab or just use two rocks. also I always use a small piece of aluminum foil underneath the esbit that way it doesn't suck up moisture from the ground, it's also radiates heat for more efficient cooking and you can wrap the esbit in the foil and use the rest later, I usually will use one tab for two meals.
I have used a canister stove for the last couple of years. Only carried a backup when canister was low on fuel and didn't want to ditch it. Typically carry the small size, but on occasion carry the larger size if availability might be an issue.
Dedicated Hanger
08-18-2014, 16:46
One idea for a canister back up is the Evernew EBY 255 stove that weighs 3 oz and burns alcohol, esbit, or wood and does not need a separate windscreen. You can find one of those fuels nearly everywhere. I have used one on several back packing trips now and found it to be a flame thrower when you need it and a long burn stove when you need less heat and a long burn. It makes my coffee in two minutes (in one configuration) and boils water in a heat exchanger pot quicker than my microwave (in another configuration). Hard to beat the multiple fuel flexibility, set up flexibility (from simmer to very high heat), and exceptionally low weight.
Just Bill
08-18-2014, 17:04
Do you have to bring a stand for esbit? I'm thinking that a wad of Al foil on top of the canister burner might keep the burner from over heating and warping.
Or is that even any kind of issue at all?
NO, Bad Squeezebox!
Besides safety, Esbit does leave a bit of residue that could gum up your burner if it leaks out, and it can ooze out of foil.
Red-Dog describes the best way using items you already have- tent stakes and a scrap of foil.
You can also buy a gram cracker stove http://www.traildesigns.com/accessories/gram-cracker
It's a bit of overkill cost wise- I bring it when not using my Caldera Cone- two esbit tabs nest inside the stove. You can make one out of a pop can too, or simply cut the bottom 1" off a mini pop can and flip it over for a small stove that is more durable than foil. Flip over your mini pop can stove and you have a servicable alchy burner as well for that odd time you get stuck using alchy. You can also bring a simple cat stove and burn the esbit right in the cat stove instead of alchy.
You should always carry an emergency fire starter.
You should always have food you can eat (if you don't have no-cook food then that means you should carry spare fuel)
If you rely on hot food to back up an UL clothing or sleep system- you should always have backup fuel.
Esbit serves both purposes, is individually wrapped, has virtually unlimited shelf life. You can use partial tabs for fire or cooking and they split fine with a knife, pointed stick, or your fingers.
Two tabs per ounce, little or no space in your pack. An empty small canister weighs more than a typical week supply of Esbit tabs.
Best solution by far.
Yep. My backup is a 2 oz canister to supplement my 4 oz canister. Almost ran out in the Smokies. The Fontana store didn't have any, but I bought one off a guy who had an extra.
Can you tell me more about your 2oz canister?
To the OP, my backup is mag block and wood fire.
momo3boys
08-19-2014, 08:55
The Emberlit titanium wood stove is my backup. Light and folds flat. Always stays in my bladder pouch. Since most of my hiking is in New England, I never run out of fuel.
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DatFLhiker
08-19-2014, 13:41
how long would a 3oz canister typically last you? mine has lasted me 3 to 4 uses on high.
HooKooDooKu
08-19-2014, 14:16
I went with the MSR Whisper-Lite Universal. It uses both Isobutane canister and white gas, kerosene and unleaded gasoline. It also comes with a inversion stand for the canister so you can get all the fuel out of it. I plan to carry only one canister at a time and a few ounces of white gas just in case.
Isn't carrying one canister and a few ounces of white gas the same thing as carrying a backup canister?
I mean the white gas can't be carried by itself. It has to be carried in a fuel bottle. That fuel bottle is going to weight in the general neighborhood of and empty canister.
So you should wind up with a net lighter load if you carry a small canister stove (much lighter than the whisper-lite), one canister, and a backup canister with a few ounces of fuel. (In other words, save that nearly empty canister from your last trip as the backup canister for future trips).
Odd Man Out
08-19-2014, 15:23
...or simply cut the bottom 1" off a mini pop can and flip it over for a small stove that is more durable than foil. Flip over your mini pop can stove and you have a servicable alchy burner as well for that odd time you get stuck using alchy. ...
I like this. One could always yogi a couple oz of alcohol, or use the Esbit tabs in a pinch. Without a wind screen you would have to hope for calm winds or rig of something in a pinch. I've always used a DIY alcohol stove but am considering a canister stove, just to see how it might work for me.
Dedicated Hanger
08-19-2014, 16:38
One thing to consider, most manufacturers of canister stoves do not recommend the use of any type of windscreen because trapped heat can and will make them explode just like a claymore mine. It happens. Please be careful.
BuckeyeBill
08-20-2014, 13:38
Isn't carrying one canister and a few ounces of white gas the same thing as carrying a backup canister?
I mean the white gas can't be carried by itself. It has to be carried in a fuel bottle. That fuel bottle is going to weight in the general neighborhood of and empty canister.
So you should wind up with a net lighter load if you carry a small canister stove (much lighter than the whisper-lite), one canister, and a backup canister with a few ounces of fuel. (In other words, save that nearly empty canister from your last trip as the backup canister for future trips).
Situation: Come to town buy two canisters as you are out as of your last meal. Use one canister between then and next town. Start using second canister and get to next town. No canisters available. Sorry about your luck. Continue on to next town run of of gas. Your out until next town maybe. With the whisperllite universal I can start using white gas, I am only carrying a few ounces, and I am still eating hot food.
I know it may sound far fetched, but I am an old Boy Scout and I am Prepared.
I wish Kelly Kettle was not so heavy. I use it for short camping trips. Burns anything, boils water while you cook something else or just use the water to poor into a bottle to keep your feet warm. It uses very little fuel. Can't really recommend it because it's heavy but I have done well with it on short trips.
colorado_rob
08-21-2014, 18:04
... Esbit serves both purposes, is individually wrapped, has virtually unlimited shelf life. You can use partial tabs for fire or cooking and they split fine with a knife, pointed stick, or your fingers.
Two tabs per ounce, little or no space in your pack. ....
Best solution by far.Yep, this. I carry two "esbit" (like) fire starters for, er, starting fires in emergencies anyway, work great under my Jetboil Sol pot; find flat rock, light half a tablet, set pot on top, heats two cups very nicely.
Another backup that requires yogi-ing: A small, empty (no wax) tea-candle cup, weighs about a gram, filled with alcohol heats 2.5 cups in my Jetboil. If you don't want to Yogi, carry a couple ounces of Alcohol yourself and this little cup; lighter than an extra canister (3.5 oz empty, 4.5 with an ounce of backup iso fuel, equivalent to 2 oz of Alcohol).
All this being said, if you use canister stoves, you get really good at judging the leftover fuel amount, I can get it to a day easily, just by shaking the canister. I've really let it run short, only used the esbit backup once in a couple hundred nights carrying my Jetboil.
Starchild
08-21-2014, 18:19
how long would a 3oz canister typically last you? mine has lasted me 3 to 4 uses on high.
3 or 4 uses, or weeks. Weeks is a stretch but also more in line then uses. If you are just getting 3-4 meals out of it you have a very inefficient system. On the Thru hike mine lasted 1-2 weeks easy.
Can you tell me more about your 2oz canister?
To the OP, my backup is mag block and wood fire.
Where are you all getting your small 2 or 3 oz canisters?
colorado_rob
08-21-2014, 18:46
Where are you all getting your small 2 or 3 oz canisters?I'm assuming folks that say this just haven't weighted them... the smallest out there holds just over 4 ounces of fuel and weighs 7.5 ounces total, meaning the empty weighs 3.5 ounces. One of these little canisters does about 16-20 two-cup boils in a Jetboil, about 25-30% less than that in a "pocket rocket" with a small pot. As Starchild said, if you're only getting a 3-4 uses, your system needs an upgrade.
FlyFishNut
08-21-2014, 19:18
How about a back up stove with back up fuel? The home made beer can stove and alcohol (doesn't take up hardly any room). Oh, and matches as a back-up back-up.
Wise Old Owl
08-21-2014, 21:13
Qwiz ti wood stove... its the bomb. Weight = nothing...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lM5ZofwReQk
http://qiwiz.net/stoves.html
Dedicated Hanger
08-25-2014, 21:32
What happens to used cannisters? You are not supposed to throw them in the trash. They are an explosion hazard. No one recycles them. Are we helping to trash the planet with landfill junk?
if you carry a canister stove do you carry some type of backup in case the canister runs dry ??
I can think of a few, tin can wood stove, vegatable can stuffed with twigs and such
OH can stove with a bit of OH to carry, esbit tabs, etc.
If all else fails, find two rocks, place kindling in between, fire it up. Spacing of rock depends on diameter of pot. Works well.
Another "backup" idea is to carry a few dinners that don't absolutely have to be cooked, like instant mashed potatoes, couscous, instant refried beans or Ramen noodles, or some extra cold cereal, nuts, or bread and cheese.
This...
On my recent hike I was completely stoveless for over a thousand miles but decided I wanted to start eating a hot meal now and again so I bought a Pocket Rocket and a can of canister fuel and indulged myself from time to time with a hot meal, continuing to eat non-cooked food most of the time.
You can also put 3 tent stakes in the ground and balance your pot on them and use an esbit or build a small wood fire under it.
colorado_rob
08-26-2014, 11:38
What happens to used cannisters? You are not supposed to throw them in the trash. They are an explosion hazard. No one recycles them. Are we helping to trash the planet with landfill junk?Sorry, check your facts: they are totally recyclable. Burn to empty, put into recycle bin, no explosion hazard when empty. That easy. Or: REI collects semi-empty ones and does this for you.
saltysack
08-26-2014, 12:03
Sorry, check your facts: they are totally recyclable. Burn to empty, put into recycle bin, no explosion hazard when empty. That easy. Or: REI collects semi-empty ones and does this for you.
+1
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Dedicated Hanger
08-26-2014, 12:07
Checked with REI here in Atlanta, they said that they did not recycle the canisters. Checked with the recycling company, they said no way, no how should I put an empty gas canister into the recycle bin. Where did your facts come from, maybe you can share them with us?
saltysack
08-26-2014, 12:15
Strange I've always just put in my recycle bin and they take...I've also put empty green Coleman car camping type..jet boil has some key/tool to puncture empties but I've never used...I live in NE Florida..
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saltysack
08-26-2014, 12:16
Checked with REI here in Atlanta, they said that they did not recycle the canisters. Checked with the recycling company, they said no way, no how should I put an empty gas canister into the recycle bin. Where did your facts come from, maybe you can share them with us?
Did they not take from ur recycle bin?
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Checked with REI here in Atlanta, they said that they did not recycle the canisters. Checked with the recycling company, they said no way, no how should I put an empty gas canister into the recycle bin. Where did your facts come from, maybe you can share them with us?
The recycling company (or rather the person on the phone) was probably getting mixed up with the green propane ones (https://www.google.com/search?q=coleman+propane+fuel+16.4+oz&sugexp=chrome,mod%3D14&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=grUpUPbaAo-q8ATok4DwCg&biw=1280&bih=699&sei=hLUpULqeFob89QS0woCACA) which have to be disposed of differently.
The isobutane canisters are thin metal. In fact, the fuel canisters have a big recycle symbol now on them (at least the MSR one I used last) and their websites list as such. Hell, the REI website lists recycling too. :)
More info:
http://cascadedesigns.com/msr/stoves/stove-accessories/msr-isopro/product
“Recyclable: Consult your local recycling center for regulations.”
Backpacker Magazine:
http://www.backpacker.com/february_2008_how_to_recycle_spent_fuel_canisters/gear/12084
http://www.backpacker.com/gear/ask_kristin/85
And REI:
http://www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/backpacking-stove.html
Something I wrote:
http://www.pmags.com/recycling-backpacking-fuel-canisters
Old Hiker
08-26-2014, 12:32
Can you tell me more about your 2oz canister?
To the OP, my backup is mag block and wood fire.
Yep - wrong size. 4 oz is the small one. Sorry.
I'm assuming folks that say this just haven't weighted them... the smallest out there holds just over 4 ounces of fuel and weighs 7.5 ounces total, meaning the empty weighs 3.5 ounces. One of these little canisters does about 16-20 two-cup boils in a Jetboil, about 25-30% less than that in a "pocket rocket" with a small pot. As Starchild said, if you're only getting a 3-4 uses, your system needs an upgrade.
I always use the "fuel mass", not "total mass". I realize the entire container is heavy to a point, but I still like my Pocket Rocket. I carry the empties to town and discard. I usually put a hole in them to indicate total emptiness. Kinda like my head at times.