View Full Version : Underplanning vs Overplanning
Cassafras
08-19-2014, 21:13
I have always been what I consider to be an overplanner. When I travel, be it for vacation or family visits, I always have a solid itinerary. I'm fine with it if plans change, but I just really like to have the days planned to make the best use of the time I have. I am in the process of planning my 2015 Thru, and had pretty much decided to only plan for gear, physical fitness preparation, mental preparation, and safety. I had decided to do this differently than the rest of my trips, and to NOT plan each day's mileage, resupply points, zero days, etc. I wanted to figure things out as I went and to just let things happen as they will. However when I told this to a friend who has completed an AT thru, she pretty much acted as if I am insane. She was grilling me on every aspect of my preparation, and implied that I am not going to be ready by March or April.
I know everyone travels differently and to HYOH and all that, but how many of you think it is important to plan resupply stops? Am I being completely naive in not having any mileage/resupply plans? I don't have a timeline of when I need to finish (other than before Baxter closes), so I didn't think it was important.
Also, the other issue she had is that I am mainly focusing on training in the local "hills". There are a lot of little mountains where I live (coastal Maine), and they are conveniently 15 min from my house. The elevation gain is generally about 1000'/mi. I do plan on driving the two hours up to Acadia a couple of times to do some bigger mountains, but getting the time away is not easy. So other than hiking the local hills, I also take a spin class, do core/upper body strengthening, and squats and lunges. I do have about 25 lbs I need to shed before I leave, and I am working on that. My friend was very clear, and said that the Camden Hills "aren't going to cut it" training-wise. This is someone who I thought would be supportive of my decision to attempt a thru-hike, so I was surprised at her reaction. She thinks I need to at least hike Mt Washington a few times this summer to get a better feel for my ability to do this. I disagree with her, but I also don't want to dismiss her advice, seeing that she has completed a thru and I haven't. So does she have some valid points?
kayak karl
08-19-2014, 21:30
most mileage and resupply plans blown apart by Neel Gap ;) as far as training, just take it slow. you'll get your trail legs. in other words, hike your own hike. it's YOUR vacation.
The physical preparation you are doing now is fine and is way more than most completing thru-hikers do before their thru-hikes. If you plan to resupply along the way, as most thru-hikers do (rather than sending mail drops) all you need to plan there is how much food and other consumables you will need to get you 32 miles down the trail to Neels Gap, where you can resupply for the first time. Plan to send your cold weather stuff home about the middle of May, and plan to pick it up again when you enter New Hampshire. Start slow to avoid overuse injuries.
Your instincts telling you to avoid obsessively over-planning are good instincts -- go ahead and trust them.
Stir Fry
08-19-2014, 22:17
I attempted a thru this year, and can tell you that all my planning was shot before I reached Neel Gap. I did a lot of physical training and it turned out that all my mail drops were way to early. I ended up giving away several that I reached early. Sadly I only made it to Marion Va. before stopping. Don't et me wrong the start is tough, but not as bad as y think.
So does she have some valid points?
Depends now well she know you.
Ever think about driving up to Stratton an a Saturday morning, and the doing a 1 night loop up the Bigalows with a stay at The Horns Pond lean-tos? Not so much a physical challenge, but just being out there might tell give you all the answers you need. It is am amazing place. Or perhaps you have already fallen in love with the mountains. Not sure love can really move them, but can sure move you up them.
Then again, your friend might know something about you that we don't.
If you're as adaptable and open to the world as you think you are you may very well find how you define how you "make the best use of your time" changes. Read that again!
Everyone's an expert on how to hike the AT. Hahahaha...........I didn't pre-hike plan each day's mileage, resupply points, zero days, etc for my AT thru-hike which I completed. I had a great non stressed non beat the clock mentality thru-hike. I didn't take part in those pre hike planning logistics partly because I didn't know what the heck I was doing in regard to those things but more importantly this I KNEW - I could and I wanted to figure things out as I went - just like you. I learned to go with the flow/let things happen at times. When going with the flow winging everything wouldn't work the best and as I learned how and at when to better plan (like through GSMNP, SNP, The Whites, Hundred Mile Wilderness, etc) I planned more in these logistical regards. I made MANY daily, sometimes hourly, adaptations as I learned along the way how to better and better manage myself and my hike. I observed(a lot!), humbled myself, learned, considered what was right for me and MY HIKE and applied what I had learned. You probably can do it too! It's what makes first time thru-hiker attempters into thru-hike finishers!
Cassafras
08-19-2014, 22:51
Thanks for the reassurance Kayak and Map man. I will just keep doing what I'm doing and see how it works out :)
Stir Fry- That is kind of what I was thinking, that I don't know how far I will make it in a certain time frame, therefore I will waste a lot of money and energy if I plan on mail drops. Plus I can avoid the added complication of figuring out how to make sure I am not in town to pick up a drop on a Sunday when the post office or wherever might be closed. It seemed like a lot of added stress.
MuddyWaters
08-19-2014, 22:56
Plan all you like. Then throw it away. Planning educates you about your options so that you can better formulate your "real" short term plans you will constantly remake every several days.
Its really hard to plan more than 3 days at a time or so. Weather can slow you, terrain can slow you, or you may hike much faster than planned as well, or decide to detour to town with friends.
Cassafras
08-19-2014, 23:13
Depends now well she know you.
Ever think about driving up to Stratton an a Saturday morning, and the doing a 1 night loop up the Bigalows with a stay at The Horns Pond lean-tos? Not so much a physical challenge, but just being out there might tell give you all the answers you need. It is am amazing place. Or perhaps you have already fallen in love with the mountains. Not sure love can really move them, but can sure move you up them.
Then again, your friend might know something about you that we don't.
Well, she is a very good family friend of my wife, and we've known each other for about 9 years. Pretty much everyone else in my life believes that I can do this, based on my personality (I am a pretty determined person in general). I am not sure why this is her attitude, as I am not an irresponsible person at all. When she did the trail, she was young and quite athletic. She is also probably the most careful, by-the-rules person I have ever known (for example, she started saving for retirement when she was 24). She also did the trail 30 years ago, and I assume a lot has changed since then when it comes to planning.
I do love the mountains, and I am planning a couple of overnights this fall. I haven't decided where yet, I won't be doing any of the AT because I haven't done any of it yet and I like the idea of saving it all for my thru. Any other suggestions?
Also, the other issue she had is that I am mainly focusing on training in the local "hills". There are a lot of little mountains where I live (coastal Maine), and they are conveniently 15 min from my house. The elevation gain is generally about 1000'/mi. I do plan on driving the two hours up to Acadia a couple of times to do some bigger mountains, but getting the time away is not easy. So other than hiking the local hills, I also take a spin class, do core/upper body strengthening, and squats and lunges.... My friend was very clear, and said that the Camden Hills "aren't going to cut it" training-wise... She thinks I need to at least hike Mt Washington a few times this summer to get a better feel for my ability to do this. I disagree with her, but I also don't want to dismiss her advice, seeing that she has completed a thru and I haven't. So does she have some valid points?
I don't know why she said this? Perhaps, it's because she thinks of training in different ways than you, or she wants you to know exactly what your hike will entail, or she simply has a different life approach than you(prolly the case - you said you're a go with the flow not afraid of spontaneous action personality while she's a go by all the rules and sounded like a diehard fitness bad arse pre AT thru-hike), OR there's something not being related to us?(which there always is!!!) especially when communicating through the internet!!!
IF it's just that she views training and preparation differently than you great. Listen. Be respectful. Consider. Take on what you think applies to YOUR HIKE. And, then at some pt you have to delete some information! You DO NOT need to take ALL of everyone's advice! OMG if you try! You'll be a basket case. Like you said it's your hike NOT her hike. NO ONE, not her, not me, not anyone else here can make you decide what's right for YOUR hike. This is, what I find, one of the most beautiful aspects of long distance hiking - you GET THE OPPORTUNITY to HAVE TO MAKE MANY MANY DECISIONS FOR YOURSELF AND BY YOURSELF!
FWIW, it's obvious to me that you are mindful of getting into better shape before your thru-hike. In this regard I'd say you're ahead of the curve for first time long long distance hikers. Further, FWIW, I do train before a long hike but I'm of the opinion you definitely don't need to train on the biggest baddest hiking terrain to train for a hike. I think that's a mistake to think you do.
gunner76
08-20-2014, 01:11
My plan is...I want to start at point X and hike to point Z. If I make it... great, If I don't make ....great. As long as I had I a good time with what I was able to hike its all good.
jjozgrunt
08-20-2014, 02:36
Mate, my plan is to get from Brisbane Australia to Atlanta by the 16th March, get some food and a gas bottle, get to the start and start. After that it all depends on what I encounter. For training I am just doing my usual, plus I have a 675km thru walk in Nov/Dec in the Australian Alps. Then it will be just my normal fitness routine, which has very little impact work (walking), till I leave. The first couple of weeks will get me trail fit so why push it before hand.
There are grasshoppers and there are ants. Me I'm one than the other.
I enjoy obsessing about gear and goals but have the experience to know that it can all come to nought. One bad day on the trail and your schedule is in the dumper.
I plan ahead of time so I don't have to sweat it on the trail. I try to know what I have with me and how I mean to use it and how to re-purpose it if I have to. Where I'll be, how and where to bail if I have to and why I'd have to. Finally I keep my purpose in mind - I'm here to do "this" safely and enjoy it. When the safety goes away or the joy evaporates it's time to reassess.
I pretty much agree with others, that the level of preparation your friend suggests is really just overkill. There is no point in planning daily miles and town stop dates, unless you are trying to break a speed record or something! And I also agree that maildrops are probably not worth it. They are best for people with dietary restrictions. (like vegan or gluten-free, etc) Anybody else will have no problem shopping in town.
The training sounds great, I think your local hills are perfect! The grade of 1000 ft per mile is pretty common on the AT so I think this is good practice. It could be worse, you could live in Florida or something!
I think you will be fine! Just because your friend did the trail doesn't make her an expert. People finish the AT with all different levels of planning and experience.
bigcranky
08-20-2014, 07:21
She did her hike 30 years ago? Her experience doesn't really apply anymore. 30 years ago most hikers used mail drops for resupply, as there wasn't as much development in the Southern Appalachians in particular. At that time maildrops were the only way to get food and needed careful planning and a solid itinerary. Now you can hitch into a town with a large modern grocery store almost every single day if you want to -- certainly every 4 or 5 days which is plenty.
If you're out walking in any sort of hills, you're doing more training than some successful thru-hikers. As noted above, just start slow (8 miles per day, ideally) and within a few weeks you'll be doing good miles and you'll have figured out the resupply thing. You do not NEED to go hike Mt Washington, though that would certainly be a fun and challenging training day. The terrain in the South is much easier than in the Whites, with short steep climbs and good trail. By the time you get to New England, you'll be ready for the Whites.
Lone Wolf
08-20-2014, 07:24
my first AT hike was 28 years ago. never had a mail drop for food.
fiddlehead
08-20-2014, 09:41
The more experience I have, the less I plan.
37 years ago, I didn't even know you could do mail drops and just hiked, buying along the way.
Then in the late 80's and early 90's, I knew a lot more and did mail drops. (the food choices in the south just aren't up to par if you want to eat healthy IMO)
Then I learned to buy along the way, and ship stuff while you're on the trail in the bigger towns (to the smaller ones)
That way is best for me as I can plan as I go.
Now, I haven't done one for over 10 years so, don't know if my mileage would be the same but, I know I wouldn't be too concerned, and plan as I go.
Be flexible is best.
I remember a lady back in like '95 or something, that quit hiking by 1PM simply because she was right on her "Schedule" and didn't want to push it too hard.
Seemed ridiculous to me.
What about storms? Injuries? New friends, you'd like to hike with?
Just go with the flow.
Enjoy!
I'm curious, how many other thru hikers does she know? Maybe she likes being the only one and you're about to take that away.
I've not thru hiked yet but I imagine we have a few commonalities with regards to planning but then remaining flexible. My thought is to have the post offices lined up so that when I'm 3-4 days out I can send a text to my home support (probably a house sitter) and have them send a package. This way I can have the food I like but not get it too soon or too late. Maybe it will blow up in my face, maybe it will work.
bigcranky
08-20-2014, 12:52
You might check with the USPS - my experience is that even with Priority Mail 3-4 days isn't enough time for some of the more rural post offices (i.e., all of the ones on the Trail. :) )
Most people quit their hikes-- many fairly early on.
Not sure if planning is so important but being prepared -- in the broad sense of the word -- might be.
Have you been on any backpacking trips I yet?
My guess is that you have, but it's only a guess. You and your friend would know better than the rest of us posting here :). If you have, how did they go? If not, why not?
Another Kevin
08-20-2014, 13:50
You might check with the USPS - my experience is that even with Priority Mail 3-4 days isn't enough time for some of the more rural post offices (i.e., all of the ones on the Trail. :) )
I know one person who as trying to do an advance food drop at a tiny town. He couldn't find anyone in the town that was willing to hold a box for him. He got the idea of bringing it to the post office and mailing it to himself c/o General Delivery AT THE SAME POST OFFICE. When he got back to the post office on foot a week later, the box hadn't arrived. Apparently, all mail at that post office was all sorted in some larger city, and so the box had to be hauled away to the sort facility and then sent back to the post office it came from.
fadedsun
08-20-2014, 14:58
I'm told that Sun Tzu says the no plan survives contact with the enemy. This certainly applies to most plans in my life.
Plan too carefully and it becomes a tyranny over your hike. It is certainly possible to resupply as you go, provided you are not too choosy.
If you want better resupply, you can get someone at home to send a drop to your next resupply point.
Odd Man Out
08-20-2014, 15:39
I know one person who as trying to do an advance food drop at a tiny town. He couldn't find anyone in the town that was willing to hold a box for him. He got the idea of bringing it to the post office and mailing it to himself c/o General Delivery AT THE SAME POST OFFICE. When he got back to the post office on foot a week later, the box hadn't arrived. Apparently, all mail at that post office was all sorted in some larger city, and so the box had to be hauled away to the sort facility and then sent back to the post office it came from.
That's funny Kevin. I wonder why the PO is losing money??
garlic08
08-20-2014, 16:48
Some only plan as far as the next blaze. Some package 40+ mail drops before they even set foot on the trail.
Some hikers end up adopting a hybrid approach. Every month, say, you can take a long day in a larger town and shop and ship for the next month. That's a flexible approach. It's likely your tastes in food, and mileage traveled per day, will change in a month or two. And it's likely, as mentioned already, that the farther you get the less you'll plan ahead.
On a modern AT hike, with the preponderance of information available, the relative proximity of civilization, and over 80,000 white blazes (just going north), there's really no need to plan beyond the first few days, as others have said.
Please don't forget that you won't die if you don't eat every single day. Even hiking heavily, you have enough calories in stored in your body as fat to go for many, many days. You will need water frequently, but food is not required. I speak from experience here. You will not starve between towns, even if you go hungry a for a day or two. It might be a bit uncomfortable, but you will survive to hike another day.
Cassafras
08-20-2014, 21:35
Thanks for all of your responses. I talked to my spouse about this, and she reminded me that my friend also did not think it wise that her own sister who is an avid hiker and marathon runner, thru hike the AT again (they did it together). So I am going to chalk this up to her own anxieties, and try to not take it personally. As some of you reminded me, I am doing this for me, in my own way, on my own time frame. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks about how I am preparing myself. I'm not doing anything unsafe, and if I make it the whole way then that will be awesome, if I don't then it is my own failure to deal with. I just have so much negativity surrounding me about this trip (because I am going solo, and my friends and family are sure I will be murdered or get eaten by a bear), that it has been hard to discern valid concern, and what are actually the unfounded fears/anxieties of others.
Southern Oz
08-21-2014, 00:52
Mate, my plan is to get from Brisbane Australia to Atlanta by the 16th March, get some food and a gas bottle, get to the start and start. After that it all depends on what I encounter. For training I am just doing my usual, plus I have a 675km thru walk in Nov/Dec in the Australian Alps. Then it will be just my normal fitness routine, which has very little impact work (walking), till I leave. The first couple of weeks will get me trail fit so why push it before hand.
Yeah just let it come to u it will sort itself out...
Just a quick one for u tho fella, off topic but I'm coming from Adelaide and doing the same next yr. How u going with VISAs. all the research I've done says we can only stay in the states for 3 months before having to leave and re enter. Any thoughts ideas?
squeezebox
08-21-2014, 01:09
I like the comment from the person who said over plan - then use the plan for the first camp fire.
Don't plan too much, but know your options.
garlic08
08-21-2014, 09:39
Please don't forget that you won't die if you don't eat every single day....
This is one of the greatest lessons I learned on my first thru hike, while traversing the Sierra Nevada on the PCT. After that, I was less afraid of running out of groceries, and the hiking got more fun.
Please don't forget that you won't die if you don't eat every single day. Even hiking heavily, you have enough calories in stored in your body as fat to go for many, many days. You will need water frequently, but food is not required. I speak from experience here. You will not starve between towns, even if you go hungry a for a day or two. It might be a bit uncomfortable, but you will survive to hike another day.
This is one of the greatest lessons I learned on my first thru hike, while traversing the Sierra Nevada on the PCT. After that, I was less afraid of running out of groceries, and the hiking got more fun.
Many people, particularly gross consuming U.S. citizens, are slaves to their appetites. This includes their food consumption. Perhaps, it becomes even more obvious when you meet U.S. citizens new to trail life. Life isn't always about feeding your face or having basically unlimited convenient access to it. ADAPT. Get over it.
CarlZ993
08-21-2014, 17:55
I too am a planner of the 'over-planner' variety. I used AT Guide's website for planning my AT thru-hike. I used the 15MPD itinerary & created a spreadsheet based on that. I tweaked it some. Noted where I would mail my food resupplies (all but one were mail drops). I included my first two zero days - Hot Springs & Damascas - into the schedule. I plotted it all the way through (w/o any additional zero days scheduled in the spreadsheet) until the summit day of 8/19/2013.
I remained on schedule until Damascas. After Damascas, I found myself able to do more miles. I was able to add some days 'into the bank' as I went down the trail. If one section called for 5 days, I only needed 4. As time went on, I stayed ahead of schedule. I took additional zero days as I needed them (12 total; the others were Pearisburg, Daleville, Waynesboro VA X 2, Harpers Ferry, Port Clinton, Salisbury, Rutland, Gorham, & Monson). I thought I was going to finish my hike earlier than 8/19. But, NH & ME slowed me down. I did summit Katahdin on 8/19/2013.
jjozgrunt
08-21-2014, 19:50
Yeah just let it come to u it will sort itself out...
Just a quick one for u tho fella, off topic but I'm coming from Adelaide and doing the same next yr. How u going with VISAs. all the research I've done says we can only stay in the states for 3 months before having to leave and re enter. Any thoughts ideas?
I haven't applied as yet but have talked to the consulate. You are obviously talking about the ESTA Visa Waiver Program max 90 days, but to do the AT you have to apply for a non immigrant visa. The amount of time you get is done at the border based on what you want and what they feel like giving you (that was her direct quote) up to 6 months. Other people that have done the AT just told them, at the border, what they were doing and that they would like 6 months and got it. Go to this site and have a read http://www.ustraveldocs.com/au/index.html . When were you planning on starting?
Traveler
08-22-2014, 13:44
"Forget Moose and Squirrel, I have plan!" B. Badenov