shelter etiquette

[squeezebox]

So what are some of the do's and don'ts about staying in a shelter.
changing clothes? peeing too close to the shelter? being loud? clothes lines?
cooking? making room for late show ups? sex, drugs & rock and roll?
etc. etc.

[ChuckT]

Firstly a shelter is common space. If you're not comfortable with that don't stay in a shelter. Tent, tarp, hammock, whatever instead.
Secondly share in truly bad weather a shelter can maybe hold half again as much hikers.
Bathrooms, unless there's a privy, women one way down-trail. Men the other.
If you _must_ or eat in the shelter clean up! Crumbs attract mice and other critters.
If you have a campfire try to get enough wood to leave some behind. Don't burn it all somebody later may need it.
Lastly (I've always felt that) if one hiker is obnoxious the others can ask them to leave.

[Lone Wolf]

first come, first served whether it's 2 or 10

[daddytwosticks]

Firstly a shelter is common space. If you're not comfortable with that don't stay in a shelter. Tent, tarp, hammock, whatever instead.
Secondly share in truly bad weather a shelter can maybe hold half again as much hikers.
Bathrooms, unless there's a privy, women one way down-trail. Men the other.
If you _must_ or eat in the shelter clean up! Crumbs attract mice and other critters.
If you have a campfire try to get enough wood to leave some behind. Don't burn it all somebody later may need it.
Lastly (I've always felt that) if one hiker is obnoxious the others can ask them to leave.

In all my days of hiking, I never knew an obnoxious hiker can be ejected from a shelter by majority rule. I don't know if you are serious or not. This is truly news to me. :)

[Lone Wolf]

In all my days of hiking, I never knew an obnoxious hiker can be ejected from a shelter by majority rule. I don't know if you are serious or not. This is truly news to me. :)

so glad i never stay in them. they truly suck and are for newbies and the lazy really

[ChuckT]

In all my days of hiking, I never knew an obnoxious hiker can be ejected from a shelter by majority rule. I don't know if you are serious or not. This is truly news to me. :)
Can you get a group to agree on something, anything? I can't.

[Tennessee Viking]

Privies are not trash pits. Don't throw anything non-compostable in them.
Shelters are not party spots by hikers or locals.

[Starchild]

Bathrooms, unless there's a privy, women one way down-trail. Men the other.
Never heard of this one, maybe it's regional. But just respect other people which includes bathroom needs according to gender.




If you have a campfire try to get enough wood to leave some behind. Don't burn it all somebody later may need it.

This is IMHO a great part of trail life, giving back and making the place better for the next person, but it is against LNT principals which would have one re-scatter the wood not used (rescatter = put it back as you found it as you are able to do so, don't just hide it). This is a place that I oppose the LNT principal as it violated respect for each other and the earth, our common home.



Lastly (I've always felt that) if one hiker is obnoxious the others can ask them to leave.

In a perfect world...

[ChuckT]

LNT is an ideal to be pursued but ideal are not reality. I won't pull down a growing tree to get firewood. I will cut up or break a dried downed tree. Someone that did made my hike much more pleasant at a shelter. I will pay that forward when I can.

[Jeff]

Leave the shelter if you want to make a call on your cell phone.

[jbwood5]

I some times use shelters when the weather is bad. We have packed people in like sardines in a can in really bad weather. One of the tricky things is to insure you don't mix your gear up with others. It is best prepare your food when others aren't (i.e. work in shifts).

Depending on the shelter size and layout, hanging wet clothes/packs/food can be an issue. Confine your stuff to one small area. It drives me nuts when 1 or 2 hikers have stuff hanging all over the place.

If you arrive in foul weather and the shelter is getting packed, ask the group if you can squeeze in rather than just start forcing your way in. If your courteous, they usually find a way to make you fit. Sometimes you might have to lay at 90 degrees at the end and risk getting stepped on in the middle of the night. Changing wet clothes can be challenge. It's probably best to do this outside behind the shelter unless there are just a few folks in there, and just as a courtesy say you are going to make a quick change. Most people don't care and you can often swap your wet undies in the bag.

Other stuff will become obvious like not walking or crawling around inside with muddy boots or dropping food on the floor. Be careful with your stove (try to stay outside with a lit stove if possible). Be especially careful with alcohol stoves. They are tiny and not obvious to a tired hiker, but if kicked or tipped there can big trouble.

People will wake up a daybreak and generally pack up in shifts to allow enough space without mixing up stuff or crowding the sleeping hikers who want to wait.

If you are the last out in the morning, sweep the dirt out off the floor.

[jbwood5]

Just a couple of other things...
Smoking can be really irritating to others, especially those who fought for years to quit. Best not to smoke, or a least go out away from the shelter, go where the wind won't blow it back in. Pot is most effective in a tent and is still offensive to a few other folks out there.

Tapping on your PD keyboard after dark is pretty annoying but done a lot these days. Just be aware that some come out there to get away from electronic gadgets and don't want to hear it. Usually by dark, most people are resting or trying to go to sleep. The exception might be Winter or early Spring where a campfire is burning and folks are enjoying the philosophical conversations. :).

[Lone Wolf]

Leave the shelter if you want to make a call on your cell phone.

why? a conversation is a conversation

[Gambit McCrae]

why? a conversation is a conversation

Because I dont want to hear somebody talkin homesick and babytalkin their kids, and everyone else in the shelter is burdoned by that one person having their oun conversation with someone not even there.

This coming from someone(LW) who says they dont know what an ithingy is and dislikes technology on the trail. :datz

[Lone Wolf]

Because I dont want to hear somebody talkin homesick and babytalkin their kids, and everyone else in the shelter is burdoned by that one person having their oun conversation with someone not even there.

This coming from someone(LW) who says they dont know what an ithingy is and dislikes technology on the trail. :datzi never stay in or near shelters so ithingy use isn't a problem for me :)

[Tuckahoe]

I tend to approach the subject from the point if view of --

1) Shelters are public spaces

2) Behave like you are a guest in someone else's home

3) Don't be so quick to be offended or "suck it up cupcake." Just as you may not share someone's views, they may not share your "I'm offended trigger."

[ChuckT]

I think the thing about cell phones is that the end of the conversation that I hear (and I'm partially deef) is SHOUTED.
Makes me uncomfortable.

[Gambit McCrae]

I think we can all agree that all that is said here overlaps hostel etiquette as well.

[No Directions]

I will use a shelter in bad weather and I am not a newbie or lazy.

I don't think that problems with others are all that common in shelters. Most people are respectful of others. Last fall I arrived at a shelter just before a line of thunderstorms was moving through. A couple with a dog had a tent set up inside the shelter on the sleeping platform. As soon as they realized they were taking up too much space and the shelter was filling up they moved the tent down onto the floor of the shelter.

[Ktaadn]

why? a conversation is a conversation

I think what makes a phone conversation annoying is that it is almost always much louder than a normal conversation. No one wispers into a cell phone.

[GoldenBear]

But I have ALWAYS had a goal of leaving a shelter cleaner than its condition when I arrived. That's why you'll see me sweeping out a shelter in the middle of the day, and picking up other people's trash.

Also, be aware that neither aluminum nor plastic wrappers burn in the fire pit. Which, BTW, is NOT a trash pit either.

One minor thing about shelter etiquette: believe it or not, unless we ask, we DON'T CARE about your gear. It may very well be the greatest piece of equipment ever made, be always presume we DON'T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT IT.

Oh, and don't set off your air horn inside the shelter after taking a drag on your bong pipe, particularly when others are trying to sleep. Sad to say, I have to add that.

[fadedsun]

My main rule for shelters, as in life: Be kind.

[RED-DOG]

Shelter Etiquette.
1 NO Dogs in shelter ( leave them out side even if it's raining ).
2 No fighting/ Arguing.
3 No cell phone use inside or near the shelter while people are sleeping.
4 Have respect for other peoples gear.
5 No Bitching about the Terrain/miles " if you can't do 20+ miles without complaining about it don't do the miles".
6 If you not carrying a stove DON'T beg someone else to use theirs.
7 Keep your gear in a nice neat organized manner NOT strewn all over the shelter floor.
8 Always make room for another person if it's raining even if the shelter is full.
9 No late night conversations inside shelter.
10 Do NOT set your tent up inside shelters no matter how cold it is.
11 DO NOT pee/crap directly behind shelter go a good distance away to do your business even if it's raining.
12 DO NOT hang your wet clothing directly over the sleeping area.
13 NO bragging/ smartass remarks about how many miles your doing.
14 No GUN play if your carrying a firearm leave it inside your pack or someplace out of sight, Not everybody likes guns.
15 DO Not use the MICE strings to hang your pack on, their for your food bag only.
16 NO complaining about the shelters.
17 DON'T try to be the shelter BOSS.


I only stay at shelters if the weather is really crappy

[Wülfgang]

I do not understand why people would want to stay in shelters, barring horrible weather.

Out west we just don't have them, and I'm amazed at how many AT and LT hikers do the shelter-to-shelter thing. After a serene day in the woods who wants to sleep on a crowded hard wood floor while listening to others talk, fart, cook, eat, shuffle, complain....

[runt13]

OK! not having spent any time in a shelter, it seems to me that if you set up camp so your looking into a shelter its like looking into a big TV with a horrible soap opera on!

just saying.

[Seatbelt]

I've had good experiences in shelters and a couple "not-so-good" experiences also. The more mileage I do on the AT (I'm over 500 miles now), the less interested I am in shelters. Enjoy the tent much better.

[jbwood5]

In all my days of hiking, I never knew an obnoxious hiker can be ejected from a shelter by majority rule. I don't know if you are serious or not. This is truly news to me. :)

Obnoxious could mean a loud snorer. I remember a few nights where the rest of the group would have liked to eject that guy. LOL

Things have changed from even 10-15 years ago. I was out for a month one year in May (10 years ago) and 2/3rds of the time I had a shelter to myself and the rest of the time perhaps 1 to 3 additional people. You never know when or how many people will show up. Even on my most recent hike, I had IMP shelter completely to myself in July. But at Hall Mountain, it was packed with a guy sleeping on the 'step down' board and many setting up tents in the back in the pouring rain.

[Slo-go'en]

I do not understand why people would want to stay in shelters, barring horrible weather.

Out west we just don't have them, and I'm amazed at how many AT and LT hikers do the shelter-to-shelter thing. After a serene day in the woods who wants to sleep on a crowded hard wood floor while listening to others talk, fart, cook, eat, shuffle, complain....

It rains a lot on the AT and in general, shelters do make life easier. There are also a host of reasons that shelters are desirable, but that's not the point of this thread.

People hanging wet clothes/gear in the shelter is one of my pet peeves. There is no way anything is going to dry, it just drips on floor and makes anything which isn't wet (like your sleeping bag) wet. It's better to wring as much water out as you can and then stuff it into a bag.

Speaking of getting stuff wet in a shelter, try not to stomp around inside the shelter with wet/muddy shoes. This mostly goes for when your just stopping for lunch or a break.

[msupple]

why? a conversation is a conversation

Amen! I've never understood the problem some people seem to have with other folks talking on a cell phone. In fact, unless the speaker is on you are hearing only one voice instead of two during a trail conversation. Some seem to get in a tither about the sound of a phone ringing. I find it less annoying then the various sounds of jetboils, pocket Rockets, belching, farting, crinkling neo AirXLites etc that I hear around shelters. I'm with you Lone Wolf.

[bamboo bob]

Can you get a group to agree on something, anything? I can't.

Hey , can you see it. Votes 6-5 get out!

[peakbagger]

My "rule" is that I have the right to reserve the space under my thermarest, anything else is a bonus. Once the floor area is covered with pads touching each other but not overlapping the shelter is full (barring life threatening conditions). I do not consider an individuals decision to carry inadequate levels of gear a life threatening condition, if they decided to hike without a shelter they deserve what they get when they get to shelter.

[FatMan]

First, there are no rules at a shelter. So the best outcome is that everyone adheres to common decency. Unfortunately, what someone sees as common decency can be quite different that your view. If you can't accept that I strongly recommend over nighting elsewhere.

We see threads like this regularly, and no one will ever agree 100%.

[Seatbelt]

First, there are no rules at a shelter.
The shelters in the smokies have rules posted.

[FatMan]

The shelters in the smokies have rules posted.Ok, if rules are posted follow the rules. If not, there are no rules at a shelter.

Seatbelt, how about sharing with us the rules you noted at shelters in the Smokies so we all know.

[Kraken Skullz]

Uhh, nobody said that thru hikers have precedence at shelters over day hikers or section hikers. They have a lot longer days than the above mentioned folks and deserve the space in my opinion.

The worse they smell the higher the priority they get in a shelter.

[Sarcasm the elf]

I think what makes a phone conversation annoying is that it is almost always much louder than a normal conversation. No one wispers into a cell phone.

Agreed. When I'm in the woods, one of the last things I want to hear is a stranger shouting one side of a conversation into an electronic device. If I wanted to hear that then I'd hop on a crowded Metro North commuter train.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Uhh, nobody said that thru hikers have precedence at shelters over day hikers or section hikers. They have a lot longer days than the above mentioned folks and deserve the space in my opinion.

The worse they smell the higher the priority they get in a shelter.

Nonsense. We're all equal out there.

[saltysack]

I wish they would get rid off all shelters!!! its supposed to be a wilderness experience....use a shelter u pack in/out....just my $.02.....nothin but rat traps...


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[MuddyWaters]

I for one, have never objected to a woman changing clothes in a shelter.

[Kraken Skullz]

I disagree sarcasm. During nice weather, I would gladly give up my spot in a shelter to a thru hiker, especially if I have other options. It was a bit of tongue in cheek but if I have been out for a few days and a legit dude (or dudette) came along that was doing the whole AT in one go, I feel they can sleep in the shelter if they want and I will pitch a tent or hang my hammock nearby.

Never had to do it but I would.

[Sarcasm the elf]

I disagree sarcasm. During nice weather, I would gladly give up my spot in a shelter to a thru hiker, especially if I have other options. It was a bit of tongue in cheek but if I have been out for a few days and a legit dude (or dudette) came along that was doing the whole AT in one go, I feel they can sleep in the shelter if they want and I will pitch a tent or hang my hammock nearby.

Never had to do it but I would.

We're all guests out there, there's no rank or heirarchy despite what some people would like to think. If you're a nice guy and give up a spot to someone that you think needs it more than you then that speaks highly of your character, but don't be fooled into thinking that you are obligated to do it.

[Kraken Skullz]

Oh I know that I don't have to, but if you see someone plodding up the hill and they are a thru hiker, give them your spot, you will thank yourself for not having to sleep next to their stinky socks all night long.

[saltysack]

We're all guests out there, there's no rank or heirarchy despite what some people would like to think. If you're a nice guy and give up a spot to someone that you think needs it more than you then that speaks highly of your character, but don't be fooled into thinking that you are obligated to do it.


Agreed......


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[Seatbelt]

Ok, if rules are posted follow the rules. If not, there are no rules at a shelter.

Seatbelt, how about sharing with us the rules you noted at shelters in the Smokies so we all know.

Heck, I can't remember all of them--stuff like; no cooking inside shelter, use designated "toilet" area, no tenting inside, etc. Just general stuff. I didn't take a pic of the rules. Not sure if all of them(in the Smokies) have them. No offense intended. :) I would be willing to bet that some of the others have some postings as well.

[kayak karl]

Oh I know that I don't have to, but if you see someone plodding up the hill and they are a thru hiker, give them your spot, you will thank yourself for not having to sleep next to their stinky socks all night long.
even at mid-night ?? after you're all set up ?

[Kraken Skullz]

Just saying it is nice to do nice things for thru hikers and I for one will ideally make room for someone on a thru. If I just put in 24 miles and they did 8, then pitch a tent, but if I did 8 and they did 24 miles and have been out on the trail for months, then yeah, I will give you a place.

[2015 Lady Thru-Hiker]

I will use a shelter in bad weather and I am not a newbie or lazy.

I don't think that problems with others are all that common in shelters. Most people are respectful of others. Last fall I arrived at a shelter just before a line of thunderstorms was moving through. A couple with a dog had a tent set up inside the shelter on the sleeping platform. As soon as they realized they were taking up too much space and the shelter was filling up they moved the tent down onto the floor of the shelter.

Is it common practice to set one's tent up inside a shelter?? I would think that if you did that and the shelter starts to fill up that you should automatically take your tent down to allow everyone more space and not force people into having to manuevering around your tent.

[Lone Wolf]

why put a shelter in a shelter? it's extremely rude. folks doin' that should stay home

[Lone Wolf]

Just saying it is nice to do nice things for thru hikers and I for one will ideally make room for someone on a thru. If I just put in 24 miles and they did 8, then pitch a tent, but if I did 8 and they did 24 miles and have been out on the trail for months, then yeah, I will give you a place.

thru-hikers are not special. they're on vacation :cool:

[Kraken Skullz]

Haha. True. I wish I could go "on vacation" more often.

[Sarcasm the elf]

why put a shelter in a shelter? it's extremely rude. folks doin' that should stay home

I've done it twice during January snowstorms in New England. Both times we hadn't seen another overnight hiker the whole day. In the off chance that someone else had stumbled in, we would have moved the tent out immediately.

[kayak karl]

Just saying it is nice to do nice things for thru hikers and I for one will ideally make room for someone on a thru. If I just put in 24 miles and they did 8, then pitch a tent, but if I did 8 and they did 24 miles and have been out on the trail for months, then yeah, I will give you a place.
now it goes to the hiker with the most miles?

[Kraken Skullz]

Why are you being critical Karl? If you feel differently then don't make space. As for me, I respect those who are dedicating months of their time to make a truly remarkable life journey. I understand if you don't understand and it's not up to me to be critical of your ideology so please respect mine and let's move on with the discussion.

[July]

:D
OK! not having spent any time in a shelter, it seems to me that if you set up camp so your looking into a shelter its like looking into a big TV with a horrible soap opera on!

just saying.

Ha! This brought back memories. I had been out about three weeks and it was around mid morning. All of the sudden I heard a male and female shouting and screaming at each other somewhere in front of me. Sure enough about a minute later I came upon a shelter just off the trail. I approached as I needed water from the spring. Dropped my pack on the table as these two continued the fuss, but did quiten slightly. When I returned from spring the girl appoligized for the loudness. I smiled and replied , no problem this is like hiker tv, I have'nt had this much excitment in DAYS! :D

[Tuckahoe]

Uhh, nobody said that thru hikers have precedence at shelters over day hikers or section hikers. They have a lot longer days than the above mentioned folks and deserve the space in my opinion.

The worse they smell the higher the priority they get in a shelter.


Why are you being critical Karl? If you feel differently then don't make space. As for me, I respect those who are dedicating months of their time to make a truly remarkable life journey. I understand if you don't understand and it's not up to me to be critical of your ideology so please respect mine and let's move on with the discussion.

While you have attempted to backpeddle a little, your initial point was more than mere opinion and presented as a rule that should be followed by all.

[ChuckT]

Hm if aroma is the qualifier I'm a thru hiker after just a few days (or so I've been told).

[Kraken Skullz]

While you have attempted to backpeddle a little, your initial point was more than mere opinion and presented as a rule that should be followed by all.
Read my first post tuckahoe. I believe I indicated pretty early on "in my opinion" .

[rickb]

Not a bad idea to announce yourself with a whistle, clank or hello when coming up to a shelter from the blind side.

Poking your head around the corner and surprising those who got there first with your impressing of Jack Nicholson in the Shining is to be discouraged-- especially after dark.

[johnnybgood]

Shelter etiquette in my mind is common sense stuff anyway .

Make as little noise as possible upon early morning wake up, cook at the table/cooking area ,
Leave wet clothes outside sleeping area.
RESPECT others the same as you yourself want to be respected.
Keep opinions about other hikers gear to yourself unless asked personally.

[Lone Wolf]

I've done it twice during January snowstorms in New England. Both times we hadn't seen another overnight hiker the whole day. In the off chance that someone else had stumbled in, we would have moved the tent out immediately.

you were not prepared. bottom line

[No Directions]

Is it common practice to set one's tent up inside a shelter?? I would think that if you did that and the shelter starts to fill up that you should automatically take your tent down to allow everyone more space and not force people into having to manuevering around your tent.
They had a dog and wanted to keep the dog from bothering others. They were polite and moved the tent to the floor when more people arrived.

[Lone Wolf]

They had a dog and wanted to keep the dog from bothering others. They were polite and moved the tent to the floor when more people arrived.

they never should have been in the shelter at all with a dog, top or bottom floor.

[Hill Ape]

i sleep in a shelter for two reasons

i like the company, and am just hanging out or i like the shelter

always prepared, never need the shelter

would never leave if told, who der hk?!? think they are

hubris

[kayak karl]

RESPECT others the same as you yourself want to be respected.


Yep, the golden rule :)

[JumpMaster Blaster]

Uhh, nobody said that thru hikers have precedence at shelters over day hikers or section hikers. They have a lot longer days than the above mentioned folks and deserve the space in my opinion.

The worse they smell the higher the priority they get in a shelter.

How do thru hikers have priority at a shelter?

I understand the momentous effort required in a thru hike, but your ability to take 6 months off work while I can't doesn't make you any more important.
Are thru hikers not packing any kind of tent/shelter etc? If you are thru hiking and relying on space inside a shelter I think you may have planning issues.

Someone's decision to hike 2185 miles is not cause to make a day or weekend or section hiker vacate shelter space. Period. If someone came at me like that I'd tell them to go pound sand- we'll share, but no one has any priority (save the Smokies).

To be honest, the only reason I stop at shelters is for the availability of water, privy (in some cases), and picnic table. I have yet to sleep one night directly on a shelter floor- closest I came was setting my tent up inside twice.

[JumpMaster Blaster]

why put a shelter in a shelter? it's extremely rude. folks doin' that should stay home

I've done it and seen it done a couple timesas well. Mind you, the two times I did it, was in a downpour and I was the first person at the shelter. When others came in, I offered to move it. The second time was in a 2-story when another couple came in & set up their tent upstairs. 3 people in a 2 story shelter= do what you want.

[Lone Wolf]

I've done it and seen it done a couple timesas well. Mind you, the two times I did it, was in a downpour and I was the first person at the shelter. When others came in, I offered to move it. The second time was in a 2-story when another couple came in & set up their tent upstairs. 3 people in a 2 story shelter= do what you want.

but why? the roof leak? i don't understand

[The Ace]

so glad i never stay in them. they truly suck and are for newbies and the lazy really

I finally figured it out: Shelters were intentionally built to collect in one place all of the people with all of the bad habits listed in this thread so that the rest of us can enjoy a peaceful night alone in the woods.

[saltysack]

but why? the roof leak? i don't understand

It seems lil warmer inside tent..no wind....did it during freezing cold winter storm....didn't arrive til midnight ....no one else out dumb enough to be hiking in that crap I guess...


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[Lone Wolf]

It seems lil warmer inside tent..no wind....did it during freezing cold winter storm....didn't arrive til midnight ....no one else out dumb enough to be hiking in that crap I guess...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalkbut it's warmer on the ground. no wind blowing under the tent

[saltysack]

but it's warmer on the ground. no wind blowing under the tent

Good point I forgot to mention all the trees dropping frozen branches full of ice and 30+ mph wind


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[Sarcasm the elf]

you were not prepared. bottom line

Nah, fully prepared, just felt like it.

You can call it lazy if you want to pithy it up.:cool:

[FlyPaper]

Just saying it is nice to do nice things for thru hikers and I for one will ideally make room for someone on a thru. If I just put in 24 miles and they did 8, then pitch a tent, but if I did 8 and they did 24 miles and have been out on the trail for months, then yeah, I will give you a place.

If they're thru-hiking, they're essentially on a 6 month vacation. And I am usually on a 5 day vacation. If they did 24 miles, it's their choice. They could choose less. While it may be nice to give up a spot, there is nothing about a thru-hiker that makes me think they're more deserving than I to use a shelter spot.

[JumpMaster Blaster]

but why? the roof leak? i don't understand

Think about it- you arrive at a shelter soaking wet. Its pouring down rain and windy. There is no one else at the shelter, it's 5 pm, and it's a pretty big shelter (Roan High Knob). Do you- a) go outside and put up your tent, getting it wet with the possibility of having to pack up a wet tent in the a.m., b) leave the tent in your pack and sleep on the shelter floor and have mice run across your face, or c) put up a tent inside to keep a & b from happening.

The thought of having mice (which are prevalent in many shelters) using me as a highway while I'm sleeping disgusts me. Yeah, I know, woods and nature and all that, but I don't see anyone embracing tick bites either. ;)

Point is I only did it 2 times, when no one was competing for shelter space. Heck, at Clyde Smith 3 guys already had their tents jerry-rigged & suspended on the platforms when I arrived because the whole shelter leaked like a sieve. I didn't have a problem with that- I camped out under the awning.

Trust me, if I never have to spend a night sleeping on a shelter floor, it's okay with me. I love tenting. (stupid smokies)

[JumpMaster Blaster]

If they're thru-hiking, they're essentially on a 6 month vacation. And I am usually on a 5 day vacation. If they did 24 miles, it's their choice. They could choose less. While it may be nice to give up a spot, there is nothing about a thru-hiker that makes me think they're more deserving than I to use a shelter spot.

Sadly that is part of the "entitled hiker" mentality that people run into. "I must be better than you because I'm a thru-hiker". No, I have a full-time job and am working on my pension & retirement.

I will however, try to assist & accomodate them whenever possible. I believe in paying it forward, but if they come across as buttholes expecting it, no dice.

[TNhiker]

Trust me, if I never have to spend a night sleeping on a shelter floor, it's okay with me. I love tenting. (stupid smokies)


Why call the smokies stupid?

Put the blame on other hikers as without the abuse and damage that occurs around shelters in the park, the regulation to not tent in a shelter site wouldn't have had to been put in place....

[Kraken Skullz]

Why call the smokies stupid?

Put the blame on other hikers as without the abuse and damage that occurs around shelters in the park, the regulation to not tent in a shelter site wouldn't have had to been put in place....
+1 on this. Too much damage being done to the sites.

[MuddyWaters]

Shelters have their good points.
They concentrate a lot of impact in small areas for one.
They are also a large part of what the AT is, they are congregating points for eating, sleeping, and water. They are a big reason the AT is so much more of a social trail than other trails. On other trails you dont meet as many people and spend time talking to them, because everyone doesnt stop in the same places. You say hi, and then continue on and camp by yourself, you dont get to know others the same way you do on the AT.

Sleeping at them sucks usually, I agree. I do well with earplugs. And usually people watching is a sideshow when certain people show up.

[July]

but it's warmer on the ground. no wind blowing under the tent
Spoken like a True Dog...

[Just Bill]

sex, drugs & rock and roll?


Bring enough gum for the whole class, or don't bring it at all. Ask before you chew.


Firstly a shelter is common space.

clean up!
...have a campfire ...get enough wood to leave some behind
if one hiker is obnoxious the{n} leave.

Fixed it.
The preferred method for privy use is the team pee, women seated, men standing or straddling depending on your aim. It's not a regional thing.
This fosters camaraderie and trust.
The team poo should be avoided and only fosters disgust.
Fosters in a flat bottom can is a good social lubricant and MYOG stove.



i never stay in or near shelters so ithingy use isn't a problem for me :)
If you were better with your thingy you'd probably enjoy team peeing better.

Shelters are a novelty to all of us non-AT hikers. They are a part of the trail, generally an enjoyable one. The AT is not a wilderness, meeting folks along the way should be expected and generally welcome experience. Nobody will complain if you choose to walk on past, don't complain if you choose to stay. Flagrant violations of general social behavior is quite rare.

Have a fire, cook dinner, visit with your fellow hikers. Do your camp chores, washing, laundry, and socializing.
Then move on and camp where you like if that's your thing- best of both worlds and part of the unique experience on the AT.
Many, many, many places to go if you don't want to see people.

Pack/plan/hike as if the shelters don't exist- then a stay at one is a pleasant surprise.
I Agree violently on the Phones; if you use your phone at the shelter I will ask to borrow it.
I will call a 900 number, then your spouse/mommy/significant other to discuss our recent team poo and your odd fascination with it.

In the offseason- sure is tough to walk by an empty or very lightly used shelter, no matter how tough you are.
For those who hike other trails- kinda hard to pass up the novelty of them any time of year.

Most importantly- it's tough to miss a good team pee.

[squeezebox]

Bill !! you are a true weirdo !! keep it up !!

[squeezebox]

The who has priority to use the shelter question, to me, is who is the most stupid that needs to be protected from themselves.
Do not expect anything to be provided for you. tent, stove, rain gear, shelter, warm clothes etc. expect severe conditions to happen.
I expect thru hikers to carry all they need. Week enders who get surprised in an unexpected rain storm, or cold front, poor planning.
If crap happens to you, go home and try to do it right next time.

[Dogtra]

so glad i never stay in them. they truly suck and are for newbies and the lazy really

Is your attitude necessary?

[Dogtra]

The best piece of wisdom I've seen in this thread is to treat others the same as you would have them treat you. Be respectful. Be kind.

There are not any concrete rules regarding shelters. For example...
Someone said never to pitch a tent in a shelter. My experience during my second thru-hike attempt, very early on, broke this "rule" at Blood Mountain Shelter. I had strained my ankle and wanted to rest it before descending the mountain. Unfortunately it was extremely cold, I was alone, and the shelter mice were the boldest little buggers I'd ever experienced in all my years hiking. Dozens were running around in daylight, even when I was inside the shelter. Yes, I pitched my tent inside.

While its normally only expected of hikers to try for stealth/silence in the early and late hours of the day, there are times when considerate and kind individuals have kept it quiet around a couple shelters during active hours when there are sick individuals resting inside. Did they have to? No. But it was nice of them to do so. Most of the people out there are kind and look out for each other.

The one thing I disagree with is the rights of dog handlers to have their dogs in shelters. There is no law against it. I'm planning for another thru-hike attempt in a couple years and for the first time I will be bringing my K9 with me. More to the point, I will be using shelters when I'm able and choose to. If my dog does something to warrant his exclusion from staying in them, then and only then will I step out and stay under my tarp instead. I accept responsibility for my dog. But for anyone to say he or I aren't allowed just because of his existence as a dog, instead of any ill-action he or I have done? Sorry, that won't fly with me. It's a public space and we have just as much right to it as anyone else. There are plenty of hikers that I've come across that are stinky, spread mud inside shelters, and generally annoy me a little. Does that give me the right to say "Get out"? No, it doesn't.

Again I'll say to treat others the same you would like to be treated. :) Its the best "rule" to follow.

[Pedaling Fool]

This is one of those hot-button topic on here, as evidenced by the number of posts already logged in such a short period.

I don't get the interest, but I think it confirms my belief that it's best to just tent:D

[Kraken Skullz]

Well said Dogtra.

I have a saying that I like to bring up when forums get hot under the collar. It's actually a simple poem that goes like this:

You have your opinion and I have mine.
We can disagree and that's just fine.
Let's keep it courteous and not cross the line, because when words try to hurt us, we all lose our mind.

[bangorme]

I wouldn't give up my spot in a shelter for anyone that wasn't sick or in danger because they weren't properly equipped. Then again, I've never stayed in a shelter and usually don't even tent near them. As far as dogs, they belong outside with their owners. Some people don't like dogs or are afraid of them. If you make the decision to bring a dog, you live with that decision.

A handy skill is to learn how to set up your tent in the rain, and to buy a tent that can be set up in the rain without getting your gear wet. I was tenting near a shelter in NH when a couple arrived and tried for about half an hour to set up their tent unsuccessfully. They ended up in the shelter.

[atmilkman]

Y'all gon' make me lose my mind
up in here up in here.

[Another Kevin]

Shelter etiquette is all common sense, really. You learnt most of it in kindergarten. Play nice, share, take turns, and think of what would happen if everybody did that!

First come, first served. It's nice to vacate for another hiker, but not necessary. On the other hand, you don't own the place. When others come in, you share. When the first ones in don't share, don't argue, just move on. You don't want to share a shelter with someone like that, anyway.

Hikers are a pretty earthy bunch, so don't make a fuss about accidentally seeing someone's you-know-what or having someone see yours. "Nudity is often seen and never noticed" is a pretty good principle. On the other hand, at least try not to expose yourself, particularly if there are kids about. You can get pretty good at a quick change under an unzipped sleeping bag or a quick duck behind the shelter, perhaps with a warning "I'm going to go change real quick, back in a few!"

Pee goes in the woods, well away from the shelter clearing, NOT anywhere that someone might camp when the shelter overflows, and NOT close enough to stink up the place. Poo goes in the privy - and nothing else, beside TP, does. If there's no privy, use a proper cat hole, at least 75 steps away. Ideally, hold it until you can hike on to a less congested area. But it's better to have an empty house than a bad tenant.

Don't cook inside the shelter. Don't eat inside the shelter. Don't store food inside the shelter if you don't want the mice in it. Cooking on a stove under the overhang or on the cook shelf (if there is one) is sort of acceptable in bad weather.

Actually, all the above can be summarized: "don't poop where you eat. Don't sleep in either place." Which is a pretty good general principle at all times and in all places.

If you must deal with dogs, sex, electronic devices, burning herbs (lawful, quasi-lawful, or otherwise), domestic disturbances, bright lights, loud noises, or bad smells, do it somewhere else. This includes even the best-behaved dogs. I like nice trail dogs, but not everyone does. And even some sweetheart dogs suffer a personality change when they catch wind of a coyote. They remember kinship that you may have forgotten.

If your headlamp has a red light setting, use it when nature calls or when you want a predawn departure. Try to be quiet getting in and out. If you know you're leaving early, pack everything you can the night before so that you have minimum ruckus in the morning.

Don't pitch a tent or hammock inside the shelter. An exception is that in winter, if you've brought a tarp big enough to cover all or most of the open wall, it's OK to rig it with the unanimous consent of those inside. Unanimous consent is usually granted, since everyone else wants to get out of the wind, too.

Don't make conversation with people who want to be alone with their thoughts. A great many hikers want to chat, but some don't. A brief conversation about trail conditions with people who came in the opposite direction from you is almost always acceptable, and the obligatory initial remark about the weather will let you judge whether people want to talk. Don't complain about the conditions, ever. Consider the difference, though, between whining, "that rock scramble down Blackhead was so steep! Didn't the maintainers ever hear of switchbacks?" and grinning, "wow, that was an awesome scramble! Blackhead is a tough mountain!" Remember that a week from now, whatever you're complaining about will have been a fun challenge.

Don't explode your gear all over the shelter, or at least pick it up when others come in. Don't hang wet gear over the sleeping area. It won't get dry anyway. Try putting it between your sleeping pad and ground sheet, instead. Don't put your pack in the space next to you. Hang it, or lay it at your head or feet, or sleep on it for extra insulation. In general, don't use more than your share of the space.

Fire pits, bear boxes, privies, the crawl space under the shelter, and all other places in the vicinity are not garbage cans. It was light enough for you to carry it in. Carry it out.

There are more obvious rules that I've seen violated, such as "don't discharge a firearm inside a shelter," "don't get so drunk that you spend the night puking in the firepit," and "pages from the shelter register are not suitable as toilet paper", but you already know all of those. People are stupid.

[Kraken Skullz]

Kevin, that pretty much sums it up. Go ahead and close the thread, because you have hit all of the nails on the head IMO.

[Dogtra]

Well said Dogtra.

I have a saying that I like to bring up when forums get hot under the collar. It's actually a simple poem that goes like this:

You have your opinion and I have mine.
We can disagree and that's just fine.
Let's keep it courteous and not cross the line, because when words try to hurt us, we all lose our mind.

It can be difficult for people to remain calm and respectful in threads like this sometimes because some people can only respond to differing opinions with hostility, which is sad.


As far as dogs, they belong outside with their owners. Some people don't like dogs or are afraid of them. If you make the decision to bring a dog, you live with that decision.

People don't like everybody in the world. It is only natural.
Some women are afraid of men. Should men then tent out if such a woman were setup in a shelter?
I could just as easily say to anyone that is afraid of dogs and decides to go hiking that there will likely be other hikers with dogs, so they should "live with that decision". There are many things out on the trail that people either don't like or fear -- We still hike.

If my dog is misbehaving in anyway whatsoever, I will leave the shelter and tent out. If he is behaving however and a demand is made of me to leave... I'll be staying in the shelter. Nobody has the right to tell me to step out of a public/common space unless my dog or I are being disruptive. Period. If you or anyone else has an issue with that, Please PLEASE bring backup shelter and be prepared to use it.

Please don't mistake me for an irresponsible owner either. I train working dogs for a living. My dog has a strict daily training regimen and has reached obedience levels well beyond that of a companion animal alone. I'll say it one last time - I will exit if my dog has DONE something to deserve "shelter banishment", but that action must be greater than "he was born and is present".

[ChuckT]

Just overall (I'm addressing this to everybody) don't you think it's worthwhile keeping in mind that we are a percent of a percent of a percent of a percentage of AT users?

I've had to ah joy of observing up-close-and-personal AT users that do not practice what most here agree on.
Some of them couldn't care less, some think they are privileged. Just move on.

[Dogtra]

"don't poop where you eat. Don't sleep in either place." Which is a pretty good general principle at all times and in all places.

That's cute. :D

I enjoyed and agreed with the majority of your post. Not all of it mind... but I'll be beating a dead horse if I say it again.
Well done.

[atmilkman]

The who has priority to use the shelter question, to me, is who is the most stupid that needs to be protected from themselves.
Do not expect anything to be provided for you. tent, stove, rain gear, shelter, warm clothes etc. expect severe conditions to happen.
I expect thru hikers to carry all they need. Week enders who get surprised in an unexpected rain storm, or cold front, poor planning.
If crap happens to you, go home and try to do it right next time.
Wait a minute - are you allowed to answer a question to a thread you started by asking a question? :) Isn't this some kind of thread etiquette violation. :)

[saltysack]

The best piece of wisdom I've seen in this thread is to treat others the same as you would have them treat you. Be respectful. Be kind.

There are not any concrete rules regarding shelters. For example...
Someone said never to pitch a tent in a shelter. My experience during my second thru-hike attempt, very early on, broke this "rule" at Blood Mountain Shelter. I had strained my ankle and wanted to rest it before descending the mountain. Unfortunately it was extremely cold, I was alone, and the shelter mice were the boldest little buggers I'd ever experienced in all my years hiking. Dozens were running around in daylight, even when I was inside the shelter. Yes, I pitched my tent inside.

While its normally only expected of hikers to try for stealth/silence in the early and late hours of the day, there are times when considerate and kind individuals have kept it quiet around a couple shelters during active hours when there are sick individuals resting inside. Did they have to? No. But it was nice of them to do so. Most of the people out there are kind and look out for each other.

The one thing I disagree with is the rights of dog handlers to have their dogs in shelters. There is no law against it. I'm planning for another thru-hike attempt in a couple years and for the first time I will be bringing my K9 with me. More to the point, I will be using shelters when I'm able and choose to. If my dog does something to warrant his exclusion from staying in them, then and only then will I step out and stay under my tarp instead. I accept responsibility for my dog. But for anyone to say he or I aren't allowed just because of his existence as a dog, instead of any ill-action he or I have done? Sorry, that won't fly with me. It's a public space and we have just as much right to it as anyone else. There are plenty of hikers that I've come across that are stinky, spread mud inside shelters, and generally annoy me a little. Does that give me the right to say "Get out"? No, it doesn't.

Again I'll say to treat others the same you would like to be treated. :) Its the best "rule" to follow.


Very well said!!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Another Kevin]

If my dog is misbehaving in anyway whatsoever, I will leave the shelter and tent out. If he is behaving however and a demand is made of me to leave... I'll be staying in the shelter. Nobody has the right to tell me to step out of a public/common space unless my dog or I are being disruptive. Period. If you or anyone else has an issue with that, Please PLEASE bring backup shelter and be prepared to use it.

Please don't mistake me for an irresponsible owner either. I train working dogs for a living. My dog has a strict daily training regimen and has reached obedience levels well beyond that of a companion animal alone. I'll say it one last time - I will exit if my dog has DONE something to deserve "shelter banishment", but that action must be greater than "he was born and is present".

Good manners sometimes consists of rules that don't necessarily make sense. There's no really sound reason for not using your dessert spoon to eat your mashed potatoes at a dinner party - but it's not done, and doing so marks the eater out as boorish. There's no good reason that clearing one's throat is a polite way to get someone's attention, but a hiccough, eructation or flatulency is not. "No dogs in shelters" is widely regarded as being such a rule of good manners. It is sometimes justified by the fact that some dogs are ill-behaved or that some people are uncomfortable around dogs, but a lot of the discomfort simply stems from the fact that it's departing from what's generally regarded as mannerly. It doesn't need to make sense. It's similar to, if less obvious than, the rule of "don't take dogs into other people's houses or places of business unless they're invited. Don't presume that an invitation to you applies to the dog."

Of course, if the dog is a service dog on the job or being trained, he may need to be somewhere to do his job. That's an exception, similar to the idea that a houseguest doesn't just go prying into the cupboard under the kitchen sink, but the plumber may need to.

EDITED TO ADD: Many of the places I hike have a formal "no dogs in shelters" regulation. So I'm also warning you not to do something that, around here, you can get a ticket for. The part that I always have trouble remembering is which color of state land I'm on. Here, in the state parks, you can camp at designated areas only. If a lean-to is full, you're supposed to camp within sight of it. In the state forests, you're supposed to disperse your impact. The inside of a lean-to is a campsite, the outside is off limits for 150 feet in all directions.

AND ONE MORE EDIT: If it was just me, the dog would be welcome. I wouldn't ask him to leave. If he was a nuisance, I might decide to tent somewhere else. Don't get insulted if I do, because I usually do, anyway.

[Dogtra]

You are entitled to your opinion just as much as I am, Kevin. I respectfully disagree with you. :)

If I were to take my dog and snuggle up beside you under your tarp, then I could see you saying "Get out" and you would be perfectly justified. Yet the fact remains that shelters are common space, you nor I own it. Without a law saying otherwise - my dog and I will be staying in the shelter when its available and when I choose to.

As a dog owner it is up to me to be prepared if 1) I can't fit inside a shelter and/or 2) My dog misbehaves and loses the right to stay in shelters.
On the other hand a dog hater must be equally prepared to setup camp outside if they can't live with that.

[Lone Wolf]

shelters are common space for human beings. all the dog owners i know wouldn't think of staying in a shelter with their dogs. they respect non - dog owners

[Lone Wolf]

http://www.appalachiantrail.org/hiking/hiking-basics/hiking-with-dogs

[Dogtra]

Lone Wolf - I will not fall victim to online intimidation or passive aggressive insults to my integrity.

However if you, Kevin, or anyone else can tell me that shelters are legitimately off limits to dogs (whether in general or specific locations along the AT)....
THEN I'll respect that and setup my tarp. Without that I'm afraid "....Because...." just isn't good enough.

[Alligator]

etiquette-the customary code of polite behavior in society or among members of a particular profession or group.

[Dogtra]

Sorry for all of my posts. I don't know how to edit posts yet to cut back on my responses potentially flooding a thread.

"Take special measures at shelters. Keep your dog leashed in the shelter area, and ask permission of other hikers before allowing your dog in a shelter. Be prepared to "tent out" when a shelter is crowded, and on rainy days." Taken from the site you linked.

First come, first serve. I will ask but once accepted I will not leave because I don't have the permission of a hiker that may come after me. The "be prepared" bit is something I've already covered. If you feel so very strongly that I'm breaking the law then feel free to report me to the authorities. But from my experience out on the trail, the canine hikers don' receive as much discrimination as they do on these forums.

[Dogtra]

etiquette-the customary code of polite behavior in society or among members of a particular profession or group.

And that there is a problem, I think. There was already some thoughts over who gets priority to stay in a shelter, thru-hikers vs others. Thankfully "etiquette" does not equal law or regulation.

[saltysack]

As long as the dog is a thru hiker it should be fine!!!:). People need to relax ....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Alligator]

And that there is a problem, I think. There was already some thoughts over who gets priority to stay in a shelter, thru-hikers vs others. Thankfully "etiquette" does not equal law or regulation.The thread is a discussion of what hikers consider etiquette. Simply because one person holds one opinion does not make it a rule of etiquette. General agreement by a group is what makes etiquette.

For instance, farting in a shelter is generally given a pass, and even encouraged to some degree by hikers, but not considered polite by non-hikers.

[Alligator]

...and hiker table manners--isn't that an oxymoron--should we even go there?

[Lone Wolf]

Lone Wolf - I will not fall victim to online intimidation or passive aggressive insults to my integrity.

However if you, Kevin, or anyone else can tell me that shelters are legitimately off limits to dogs (whether in general or specific locations along the AT)....
THEN I'll respect that and setup my tarp. Without that I'm afraid "....Because...." just isn't good enough.
just pointin' out most dog owners don't agree with you. nothing intimidating there. you seem on edge

[Hikemor]

Wet gear stays outside.
Dogs stay outside unless it is a good mouse catcher.
I set up the tent in a shelter once to get away from the mosquitoes. I was the only one in the shelter so I was cool with myself.

[atmilkman]

...and hiker table manners--isn't that an oxymoron--should we even go there?
How about fartin' at the table? How about right before meals. I've let some and had others say they smell tuna and it makes them hungry. Is that poor etiquette or just being mean?

[Another Kevin]

...and hiker table manners--isn't that an oxymoron--should we even go there?

Food fights in shelters are poor etiquette. The splashes attract mice.

[Gambit McCrae]

I ussually like to: fart while sleeping in the buff due to suffereing from IBI, dry my wet clothes by hanging up a clothes line over everyones personal space, let my wet muddy lab tramps around inside, smoke more then cigrits haunched in the corner, cook on the sleeping floor, not being clean while doing so, leave lots of snacks out for later int he night, drink a six pack o busch belching alot crumpling my cans and tossing the in the small meazly fire someone else created. No need to use the smelly privy ill just hunker down behind the shelter against the wall and do my business there. Ill stay up late at night on my phone calling home and im sorry if I accidentally take some of your stuff as i pack up the next morning no harm ment
:welcome To the shelter Im your bunk buddy lmao

[Wülfgang]

Discourtesy abounds in the woods regardless of shelters. Shelters are just places where a bunch of different tired, smelly, and opinionated people can concentrate and piss each other off.

In the west where there are no shelters, people will still congregate around prime camping areas and do whatever the hell they please. In a sense you cant get too pissed off, because it is the wilderness and there are few "rules", per se. But in another sense it is endlessly aggravating when people insist on shoving their lifestyle in everyone else's faces just because they can. This happens in city life every single day, but in the woods it is more bothersome because you go out there to largely be left alone. There is a certain expectation of etiquette---as in not camping too close to other folks, being discreet with your bodily wastes, packing out trash, being respectful with cell phones, and being reasonably quiet after dark.

As in civilized life, however, most people are only concerned with etiquette when it affects them directly; not when they may be imposing on others and have to modify their lifestyle.

[RED-DOG]

Uhh, nobody said that thru hikers have precedence at shelters over day hikers or section hikers. They have a lot longer days than the above mentioned folks and deserve the space in my opinion.

The worse they smell the higher the priority they get in a shelter.
Thru-hikers are more experienced and better prepared than most section hikers so there for thru-hikers should make room for the ill prepared section hikers. Day Hikers only use shelters as day use such as Lunch breaks and if a day hiker did have to sleep in a shelter I would gladly give up my space for that person. Take tent and use it.

[Kraken Skullz]

Nice opinion

[Ktaadn]

I always sleep in a tent so I don't have a true shelter experience, but I do normally tent near a shelter. I have to say that every person that I've ever met in and around shelters has been pretty nice. Threads like this make it sound like everyone staying in shelters is a terrible person. That is hardly the case.

[Pedaling Fool]

Would it go against shelter etiquette by using ouija boards in or near the shelters :confused:

[CrumbSnatcher]

i gave up my shelter spot a few times, even set up my tent once for a father daughter team that wasn't quite prepared. i do prefer the tent 99% of the time
as me and my dog would usually be hiking by 5 am or so. she was a big black fur coat, so we hiked in the shadows as much as possible, and we night hiked quite a bit. can't say i always kept my dog out of shelters, if my friends in the shelter would offer us a spot and welcome us in, then we would shelter. at times others would come and we'd go set up the tent anyways to make room. but the one shelter etiquette i would always do would be to gather my things and go away from the shelter 50 feet or so and pack up, we were usually the first out of the shelter in the morning. we loaded a shelter or two with wood if bored & or waiting on a friend to catch up. its not work if you enjoy it :-)

[Another Kevin]

I always sleep in a tent so I don't have a true shelter experience, but I do normally tent near a shelter. I have to say that every person that I've ever met in and around shelters has been pretty nice. Threads like this make it sound like everyone staying in shelters is a terrible person. That is hardly the case.

Indeed. The bad apples do tend to stick in the memory, though. Most shelter crowds are quite congenial.

I dislike shelters because of the damp, the wind and the vermin, none of which are nearly as much of a problem in my tent. The vermin of the human variety are vanishingly rare, while the damp, the wind and the mice are pretty much a given at the shelters.

[Another Kevin]

Would it go against shelter etiquette by using ouija boards in or near the shelters :confused:

Probably not. But chalking a pentagram on the shelter floor is right out. :)

[Jake2c]

Well, I have had dogs most of my life but would not take them into a shelter. It just doesn't seem right. I have only been on the AT in Virginia and have not seen any dogs actually. I have stayed other places and without specific acceptance noted I think most people expect that dogs would not be in a shared sleeping place. If you went somewhere that most people would expect dogs to be like a dog park, no one would expect someone who is not a dog lover to show up and make everyone remove them. I just think the favor should be returned, why make everyone accept them? I had one dog that was very comfortable sleeping outside and in fact did not like staying in a tent. If the dog is going to sleep outside the shelter then I don't think there should be any issue from anyone. I will make a run at the AT when I retire in just under a year. It would be nice to take my dog but right now I don't intend to. Not only because of shelters but hitch hiking, hotels and restaurants when visiting towns.

[Dogtra]

just pointin' out most dog owners don't agree with you. nothing intimidating there. you seem on edge

You have absolutely no idea just how many dog owners and handlers I know, and just how many of them agree with me. But unlike you I know that I can't prove that or even produce nonbiased statistics on the matter to support my claim. For the record, I'm not "on edge", I just dislike you.

[Slo-go'en]

I like dogs and dogs like me, but PLEASE keep your flea and tick infested dog out of the shelter so other people don't have to deal with your dog. Sure you have the best well behaved and friendly dog in the world, but that does not matter. I, nor do anyone else wants your dog walking on my sleeping bag, licking my face, begging for food or barking in the middle of the night every time it hears some sound in the woods or someone moves around in the shelter.

If you hike with a dog you have an obligation to tent away from everyone else. You have no right to inflict your dog on others. We have a right to enjoy the woods without your dog. The only ones who think a dog isn't a problem are the selfish, inconsiderate dog owners.

[full conditions]

I like dogs and dogs like me, but PLEASE keep your flea and tick infested dog out of the shelter so other people don't have to deal with your dog. Sure you have the best well behaved and friendly dog in the world, but that does not matter. I, nor do anyone else wants your dog walking on my sleeping bag, licking my face, begging for food or barking in the middle of the night every time it hears some sound in the woods or someone moves around in the shelter.

If you hike with a dog you have an obligation to tent away from everyone else. You have no right to inflict your dog on others. We have a right to enjoy the woods without your dog. The only ones who think a dog isn't a problem are the selfish, inconsiderate dog owners.
Thank you Slo-go'en. That needed to be said. Maybe it will help.

[Dogtra]

... keep your flea and tick infested dog out of the shelter ...

Assumption.


...your dog walking on my sleeping bag, licking my face, begging for food or barking in the middle of the night every time it hears some sound in the woods or someone moves around in the shelter...

Assumption x4. When inside of a shelter my dog will be on his pad only, he isn't allowed to approach people to give or receive affection (nor would I want him near you), he doesn't beg, and he doesn't bark. However if he did any one of those things, or any other disruptive behavior, he would lose shelter rights. I'm very strict with him and wouldn't want him to get away with bad behaviors - for fear that it may become a habit.


If you hike with a dog you have an obligation to tent away from everyone else.

No, I don't.


You have no right to inflict your dog on others.

Yes, I do.


We have a right to enjoy the woods without your dog.

Yes, you do. The wilderness is large, it is possible to share ground or floor space.


The only ones who think a dog isn't a problem are the selfish, inconsiderate dog owners.

Considering your level of prejudice, there really isn't anything I can say or do to convince you otherwise.

[Hill Ape]

i'm gonna go hiking soon, not take a tent, sleep in shelter, right next to my dog, and hang dry my wets in the shelter

[saltysack]

Can't we all just get along......Dogtra....shelters suck!! I hike w my jrt...better off in your tent w the dog...my dog does keep the mice away!!he is a mouse killing machine...


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[bangorme]

Well, I'm glad that there are some people that won't mind me bringing my pet skunk with me. He's normally fine, but when he cuts lose... WOW. All over the place! I wouldn't have thought it very nice to bring him into the shelter before this thread, but I see that animals have rights too!

[Gambit McCrae]

I like dogs and dogs like me, but PLEASE keep your flea and tick infested dog out of the shelter so other people don't have to deal with your dog. Sure you have the best well behaved and friendly dog in the world, but that does not matter. I, nor do anyone else wants your dog walking on my sleeping bag, licking my face, begging for food or barking in the middle of the night every time it hears some sound in the woods or someone moves around in the shelter.

If you hike with a dog you have an obligation to tent away from everyone else. You have no right to inflict your dog on others. We have a right to enjoy the woods without your dog. The only ones who think a dog isn't a problem are the selfish, inconsiderate dog owners.

I am a dog owner and completely agree. We I bring my dog, he listens, we tent. no problems.

[CrumbSnatcher]

dogs are more comfortable in or near the tent, will not be stepped on & less on edge with less people around
better off tenting

[Dogtra]

Well, I'm glad that there are some people that won't mind me bringing my pet skunk with me. He's normally fine, but when he cuts lose... WOW. All over the place! I wouldn't have thought it very nice to bring him into the shelter before this thread, but I see that animals have rights too!

You must realize that childish statements like that only serve to invalidate your side of this debate.... Please do better.

[squeezebox]

Dogtra
You certainly do not have a right to inflict your dog on other people.

[Dogtra]

Dogtra
You certainly do not have a right to inflict your dog on other people.

Then please tell me where it says that I don't and who says so. Please.
Outside of the warm and tolerant people here in this thread, that is.

[Rocket Jones]

Once a year or so we get someone like Dogtra. Why can't we all admit that she has all the answers and the rest of us are wrong?

[Dogtra]

I don't have all the answers, tyvfm.

I happen to disagree with you. Its not the end of the world.
Must have said it a dozen times now but I'll say it again - IF me or my dog are disruptive, we WILL leave the shelter. I'm not debating that dog owners have a right to stay at a shelter even if they're a PITA. I AM saying that I will not tolerate being judged by peers based solely on the presence of my dog. If I'm at a shelter, park, etc that has laws in place prohibiting dogs from staying in shelters - I would honor that.

[CrumbSnatcher]

dogs are allowed in shelters with permission from all other hikers using the shelter, be prepared to move out and tent if more hikers show up. straight from the A.T.C.
with that said your dog will sleep better in the tent and be more rested away from the shelters

[Hill Ape]

once a year or so a newbie comes in here, and they get their tails chewed off by self righteous self appointed trail law

this board does more to turn people off of the trail than introduce people to it.

telling people to just stay home?!? SMH shame on yall

[Hill Ape]

the cabal has spoken, the law handed down on the mountaintops... all lesser hikers obey!

[saltysack]

I think this horse is beyond dead.....


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[Hill Ape]

funny how that happens when folks get called out on their arrogance

[Likeapuma]

dogs are allowed in shelters with permission from all other hikers using the shelter, be prepared to move out and tent if more hikers show up

So if his dog has been in the shelter all evening, sitting on his mat & not causing an issue for any other hikers... They'll be "forced out" when one of the AT Supreme Overlords of whiteblaze comes walking in late?

I'd point out the closest flat ground for you & go back to sleep lol.

[Blue Mountain Edward]

I admit that I often use shelters because I am lazy. But I carry a heavy tent and use it often and will not want to overcrowd a shelter on a rainy day. If I hike to a shelter after sunset, in the dark and it is occupied by few ladies I ask if is okay for me to sleep in the shelter. Shelters seem to attract the kind of people best avoided such as snorers, moochers, car campers, party all nighters. I like dogs but dont want to share floor space with them. I seen some bad behavior such as public sex, drinking then puking, drunken late night gunfire at shelters. If there are more than one or two people in a shelter the tents should be outside. Please dont burn the floor or bunks with a stove. Almost all shelters got multiple burns on the floor and bunks. Well that is enough complaining for one day, see yall in the woods.

[adamkrz]

I like dogs and dogs like me, but PLEASE keep your flea and tick infested dog out of the shelter so other people don't have to deal with your dog. Sure you have the best well behaved and friendly dog in the world, but that does not matter. I, nor do anyone else wants your dog walking on my sleeping bag, licking my face, begging for food or barking in the middle of the night every time it hears some sound in the woods or someone moves around in the shelter.

If you hike with a dog you have an obligation to tent away from everyone else. You have no right to inflict your dog on others. We have a right to enjoy the woods without your dog. The only ones who think a dog isn't a problem are the selfish, inconsiderate dog owners.

No problem - just keep your crab infected, Nasty funk, All night farting & snoring and Ill temper away from my dog. Leave your nastiness in your home.

[CrumbSnatcher]

So if his dog has been in the shelter all evening, sitting on his mat & not causing an issue for any other hikers... They'll be "forced out" when one of the AT Supreme Overlords of whiteblaze comes walking in late?

I'd point out the closest flat ground for you & go back to sleep lol.
for all the bitching on WB about dogs! its no where near that bad on the trail :-)

[Lone Wolf]

You have absolutely no idea just how many dog owners and handlers I know, and just how many of them agree with me. But unlike you I know that I can't prove that or even produce nonbiased statistics on the matter to support my claim. For the record, I'm not "on edge", I just dislike you.
you would like me in person :). may i ask if you've ever hiked long distance on the AT? have any of the dog handlers/owners that you know done any long distance backpacking? and do you make your dog carry a pack?

[Likeapuma]

Good to hear. If the trail were anywhere as rude or judgemental as whiteblaze, I bet the success rate would plummet.

Not saying I'd personally bring dog, but if a person is there before others & the dog is behaving, I'd probably more annoyed with the entitled hikers coming in later.

[Wise Old Owl]

for all the bitching on WB about dogs! its no where near that bad on the trail :-)


Yes I agree - but when a dog has a backpack - folks with out dogs melt in front of you "how cute!" When the dog doesn't have the pack on I can see some unusual facial expressions of "why is he on the trail?" One couple thought Rugby was a bear in the distance. Just a thought.

[Sarcasm the elf]

once a year or so a newbie comes in here, and they get their tails chewed off by self righteous self appointed trail law

this board does more to turn people off of the trail than introduce people to it.

telling people to just stay home?!? SMH shame on yall

Sadly this is correct. I've met more than a handful of hikers on the trail who have told me in very colorful language that they didn't appreciate the self righteous preaching here on WB, particularly when it came to dogs.

If half of the imaginary problems that you read about on this site were actual problems on the trail then I don't think anyone would bother hiking it.

[No Directions]

I find that 99.9% of the people I meet on the trail are very nice. The other .1% are just quiet so I don't know if they are nice or not. I like dogs. I day hike with mine but never overnight with him. I don't mind them being in the shelter if they are well behaved. Even wet they can't possibly smell worse than a hiker that has been out for a couple of days. Most of the dogs are so tired that they curl up on a corner and go to sleep.

I have a feeling that many of the people that are on WB are armchair hikers anyway.

[Lone Wolf]

I have a feeling that many of the people that are on WB are armchair hikers anyway.

i'm a packsniffer

[mattjv89]

Sadly this is correct. I've met more than a handful of hikers on the trail who have told me in very colorful language that they didn't appreciate the self righteous preaching here on WB, particularly when it came to dogs.

If half of the imaginary problems that you read about on this site were actual problems on the trail then I don't think anyone would bother hiking it.

Agree with this, and whoever said too many pages back to find that opinions on here are often a tiny minority of what you'll encounter on the trail. I see most if not all of the taboos mentioned here done on a routine basis in shelters. Cooking and eating in shelters, spreading gear all over the place and hanging wet things from every peg, the occasional dog in a shelter, etc. etc. etc. Maybe it's just because there is a little less traffic through VT but I still have yet to see a confrontation about any of this, people either stay in the shelter and put up with each other or they sleep elsewhere.

[July]

Agree with this, and whoever said too many pages back to find that opinions on here are often a tiny minority of what you'll encounter on the trail. I see most if not all of the taboos mentioned here done on a routine basis in shelters. Cooking and eating in shelters, spreading gear all over the place and hanging wet things from every peg, the occasional dog in a shelter, etc. etc. etc. Maybe it's just because there is a little less traffic through VT but I still have yet to see a confrontation about any of this, people either stay in the shelter and put up with each other or they sleep elsewhere.

True post. Active hike and chair-blogging are different beasts!

[squeezebox]

One of my pet peves, walking with my dog in the park and someone insists on their dog approaching mine for the sniff test. I loudly tell them to heel their dog. They don't ! and look at me like I'm a jerk. and say " the dog was just trying to be friendly" my dog likes people but not other dogs. My dog has snapped at other dogs never at a person. They claim their dog is well controlled , then why the tight leash.
Dogtra maybe your dog is as well behaved as you say. or maybe he is a situation as above, I do not want my gear walked on and knocked over,
I have no way of judging if your claims are accurate or not, until something happens, There are certainly a lot of dog owners that are blind to their dog's misbehavior. somehow I doubt that you'll buy me a new sleeping bag if your walks on and tears mine.
Bottom line! I have a right to be suspicious of your dog,
YOU DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO INFLICT YOUR DOG ON OTHER PEOPLE. Too much crap has happened from people with mis behavied dogs for me to 100% believe you.

[Another Kevin]

Maybe it's just because there is a little less traffic through VT but I still have yet to see a confrontation about any of this, people either stay in the shelter and put up with each other or they sleep elsewhere.

That's exactly what I do. Put up with the other shelter rats, or else sleep elsewhere. More often it's the latter, because I find my tent more comfortable most of the time.

That doesn't mean that I can't inwardly think that people are displaying bad manners. And someone asked what was considered to be good manners. Sometimes good manners are rare.

[bangorme]

True post. Active hike and chair-blogging are different beasts!
Maybe "active hikers" should be given a badge. That way we could allow only "active hikers" to post here lol.

Just a technicality, but the shelters don't belong to "active hikers," they belong to everyone. Therefore, the proper etiquette isn't something the "active hikers" decree upon everyone else. And, just because someone has seen everything happen in a shelter and everyone just bites their tongue, that really wasn't the question of the OP.

[Alligator]

From the ATC as LW linked:

Hiking with Dogs


Dogs are permitted along most of the Trail, but they impose additional responsibilities on the hikers who bring them along. If you want to hike with your dog, be considerate of others (and your dog) by planning carefully, educating yourself about local regulations, and keeping your dog controlled at all times.

REGULATIONS AND RESTRICTIONS

Dogs are NOT ALLOWED in three areas along the Trail:

http://www.appalachiantrail.org/images/hikers/hiker-and-dog.pngBaxter State Park, Maine
Bear Mountain State Park Trailside Museum and Wildlife Center, New York—alternate road walk is available
Great Smoky Mountains National Park, Tennessee and North Carolina


Leashes ARE REQUIRED on more than 40 percent of the Trail, including:



Delaware Water Gap National Recreation Area, Pennsylvania and New Jersey
Maryland (entire state)
Harpers Ferry National Historical Park, West Virginia
Shenandoah National Park, Virginia
Blue Ridge Parkway, Virginia
500+ miles of A.T. land administered by the National Park Service

We recommend dogs be leashed at all times, as a matter of courtesy to other hikers and to minimize stress to wildlife, regardless of whether it’s required by law.
TRAIL ETHICS FOR DOGS AND THEIR OWNERS

People hiking with dogs should be aware of the impact of their animals on the Trail environment and their effect on the Trail experience of others. Be conscientious about cleaning up after your dog and keeping them away from water sources—dogs, like people, can carry and spread giardia and other diseases.

Always keep your dog on a leash.
Do not allow your pet to chase wildlife.
Do not allow your dog to stand in springs or other sources of drinking water.
Be mindful of the rights of other hikers not to be bothered by even a friendly dog.
Bury your pet's waste as you would your own.

Take special measures at shelters. Keep your dog leashed in the shelter area, and ask permission of other hikers before allowing your dog in a shelter. Be prepared to "tent out" when a shelter is crowded, and on rainy days.
For more information, visit the Leave No Trace site here (http://www.lnt.org/blog/8-tips-leave-no-trace-your-dog).

And at the LNT site

8 Tips to Leave No Trace with your Dog


Many of us enjoy bringing our pets to our local city, county, and state parks. However, it’s important to recognize some of the specific impacts associated with pets in the outdoors.
Below are a few simple tips to help keep your pet and wild animals safe while ensuring an enjoyable recreation experience for all visitors.
8 TIPS TO LEAVE NO TRACE WITH YOUR DOG


Appreciate the natural and cultural resources of the park. Keep your pet from digging in any area of the park or historic site, and out of any buildings.
Enjoy your pet's company but remember that not everyone is comfortable around them. Keep your pet leashed and under control.
Enjoy water recreation but remember, the water isn’t a bathtub for your pet. Keep them away from swimming areas and beaches.
Keep your pet with you. Leaving it unattended is no fun for the pet or nearby visitors.
Make sure your pet has plenty of water and food.
Leave no waste behind for the next visitor to find. Bring your own bags to pick up your pet's waste. Ask about waste bag dispensers and the location of trash dumpsters.
Respect the natural habitat of wildlife by keeping your pet at a safe distance.
Enjoy all the benefits of the outdoors and keep pet noise to a minimum for the benefit of other visitors.



Now, tone down the name calling folks.

You don't see some of these issues on the trail because people don't want to spark a confrontation. It may not be a huge concern to them but perhaps they would like to see the behavior not happen. (I am not saying I agree with some of these either BTW.) I generally don't stay inside the shelter if someone else is using it, so I don't I run into a lot of these issues anyway . I don't stay in the shelter because I snore, stay up late and like to drink whiskey. I frequently head lamp it into the shelter as well. I do often stay near the shelters though. I will say I agree with the ATC on the dogs in the shelter point. I'm very pro-dog too. I have no problems with dogs on the trail. If your dog stays out of my food and doesn't bark at me incessantly, then the dog and I will be best buddies. Please don't expect me to like you unconditionally though:-?.

Shelters are primitive dwelling places. Three walls a roof and a floor. People sleep on the floor. There are fancy ones of course but in general, if the dog is in the shelter, hikers end up being eye level with a strange dog. People shouldn't have to worry about whether your dog is on good behavior. Dogs are unpredictable. To say that dog problems don't happen is simply not accurate. I have had dogs growl at me, lunge at me, follow me trying to bite me, attack my leashed dog, try to steal my food, and walk/jump on my stuff. I forget a good many events and forgive any dog that acts friendly later. As I said I like dogs, it's the irresponsible owners that I am none too keen on.

Some things not mentioned:
1. Some people are allergic to dogs. Hikers are going to be sleeping in the shelter, their sleeping gear is going to be laid out.
2. People don't want dogs walking on their bags. I would be especially concerned about the dog's nails puncturing a sleeping pad. (Happened to my hiking buddy, it was his dog though.)

We have the dog forum here to bring attention to issues like these and to discuss methods to make bringing a dog a smoother experience for all parties.

[JumpMaster Blaster]

Why call the smokies stupid?

Put the blame on other hikers as without the abuse and damage that occurs around shelters in the park, the regulation to not tent in a shelter site wouldn't have had to been put in place....

Taken out of context. I'm referring to mandatory shelter stays and lack of campsites along the AT, not the park itself. It was a tongue in cheek reference to the rules. I'd rather not do the slumber party, but hey, whaddya gonna do?

And the idiot hikers were all over this weekend. When will people learn Mountain House packages don't burn in a fire"

[BuckeyeBill]

I have been following this thread from the beginning and Alligator's post was concise and on point. Before anyone says anything I am a dog lover and have owned many dogs throughout my life. Many people say that their dog is well behaved and well trained.

My question is what would your dog due in the event of a encounter with a bear? Will it run with its tail between its legs? Will it bark and just generally raise hell? Worst of all will it cause the bear to go on the offensive and attack you and your dog and anyone else around you? This is something that could happen while hiking the AT or while camped at a shelter. If you can't answer these questions honestly is it worth bringing your dog with you? I certainly would not want to lose a dog under such conditions.

Just something to think about.

[Sarcasm the elf]

I have been following this thread from the beginning and Alligator's post was concise and on point. Before anyone says anything I am a dog lover and have owned many dogs throughout my life. Many people say that their dog is well behaved and well trained.

My question is what would your dog due in the event of a encounter with a bear? Will it run with its tail between its legs? Will it bark and just generally raise hell? Worst of all will it cause the bear to go on the offensive and attack you and your dog and anyone else around you? This is something that could happen while hiking the AT or while camped at a shelter. If you can't answer these questions honestly is it worth bringing your dog with you? I certainly would not want to lose a dog under such conditions.

Just something to think about.

This is basically a non issue as black bears will normally avoid dogs whenever they can. I think the better question is when was the last time you heard a report of one of your scenarios above actually happening to a hiker on the East coast? In the time that I've been backpacking I can't recall hearing about a single incident on the trail.

[rickb]

etiquette-the customary code of polite behavior in society or among members of a particular profession or group.

A related issue to etiquette are those few unwritten shelter laws that a hiker should accept without reservation for himself and expect/demand of others as an absolute.

The one example I can think of is when a party which is unfamiliar with the Trail operates under the assumption that since they got to the shelter first, then they can reasonably take it over for themselves. This does not happen often, and when it does it occurs more frequently off season and at shelters away from the AT proper-- but is can and does occur.

If it does, you work it out or you work around it -- no worries -- but you should be 100% confident that if there is a reasonable (pad wide) amount of space, you have an inalienable claim on it no matter what anyone tells you.

Related, but not quite as clear cut is when people who have arrived at a shelter first claim space for their hiking partners who have yet to arrive. That is not cool -- don't do it -- gut it is an a slightly grayer area.

[Offshore]

why? a conversation is a conversation

From Psychology Today (http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201312/why-are-public-cell-phone-users-so-annoying): Perhaps you’ve heard the research, now several years old, showing that people find cell phone conversations they overhear to be more distracting than in-person conversations between two or more people. Reported by Cornell University psychologist Lauren Emberson and colleagues (2010), this research suggests that we find public cell phone behavior to be annoying because it’s so intrusive into our consciousness. The reasoning goes something like this. When you hear a live conversation, you know what everyone is saying because it’s all there for you to hear. When you hear a cell phone conversation, you don’t know what the other person is saying, so your ever-curious brain tries to fill in the missing pieces. This takes more mental energy than simply hearing both sides of the conversation, leaving less for you to allocate to whatever else you might be doing such as that book you're reading or assignment you're trying to complete.

[mrcoffeect]

All you got to know is ; IF? your dog is clean and well behaved, then the last place you want it is shackin up next me for the night. By morning i will have taught it how to beg and hump legs and it will be infested with fleas, ticks, ear mites. And also have picked up a bad case of the mange.

you've been warned. :D

[squeezebox]

Snoring
I'm surprised the few comments about snoring, I think I snore, unfortunately do not have a sleeping partner.
A fair amount of what has been said is about respecting others sleep time.
I heard about someone who passed out ear plugs for everyone.
Maybe I should tent it to not bother others sleep.

[TNhiker]

Taken out of context. I'm referring to mandatory shelter stays and lack of campsites along the AT, not the park itself. It was a tongue in cheek reference to the rules. I'd rather not do the slumber party, but hey, whaddya gonna do?

And the idiot hikers were all over this weekend. When will people learn Mountain House packages don't burn in a fire"




nope.....not taken outta context.....

again, the reason the shelter stays and no campsites on the at in the park are mandatory are the result of inconsiderate hikers........

the park has to contain the damage somehow, and that's how they do it......

[TNhiker]

This is basically a non issue as black bears will normally avoid dogs whenever they can.




i think the issue would be more of a dog chasing a bear.........

[bangorme]

i think the issue would be more of a dog chasing a bear.........

I tented with a guy that had a dog and during one of our conversations he said that he never needed a bear bag because of his dog.

Anyone had a dog lift their leg on their tent? Seen that happen, but haven't had it happen to me yet (that I know of).

[saltysack]

I don't hang bear bag if I have my dog... Bears are afraid of dogs as hunters use dogs to tree black bears...thank god I've never had him piss on any gear....it would be his last hike if he did...He'd kill a bear...he's a mean mofo....they'd coke on him he only weighs 18lbs but thinks he weighs 100...Kullman syndrome..


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[saltysack]

Lil man syndrome....I've got fat fingers and spell check sux


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[Traveler]

I do not understand why people would want to stay in shelters, barring horrible weather.

Out west we just don't have them, and I'm amazed at how many AT and LT hikers do the shelter-to-shelter thing. After a serene day in the woods who wants to sleep on a crowded hard wood floor while listening to others talk, fart, cook, eat, shuffle, complain....

Shelters aren't always full, nor always unpleasant given the right company combinations. Frequently the shelters I've used are empty. Some sections of the AT require the use of shelters or the immediate area to them to control camping impact. Sometimes you have to make the best of a situation.

[saltysack]

+1


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[CalebJ]

I don't really get the general shelter loathing either. Maybe because I've not thru hiked so my experience doesn't coincide with mass groups of people arriving at the shelter. My experience as a weekend to occasional week long backpacker more typically has me finding shelters with no more than a couple of people (and often they're just empty). In that situation they're often convenient places to cook/relax/sleep with a convenient picnic table and toilet.

[RED-DOG]

Lone Wolf - I will not fall victim to online intimidation or passive aggressive insults to my integrity.

However if you, Kevin, or anyone else can tell me that shelters are legitimately off limits to dogs (whether in general or specific locations along the AT)....
THEN I'll respect that and setup my tarp. Without that I'm afraid "....Because...." just isn't good enough.
If your hiking with a dog and want to stay in a shelter take a vote if the vote says yes then no problem but keep your nasty dog off my gear or they will be a problem.

[JumpMaster Blaster]

nope.....not taken outta context.....

again, the reason the shelter stays and no campsites on the at in the park are mandatory are the result of inconsiderate hikers........

the park has to contain the damage somehow, and that's how they do it......

1) I understand fully WHY the rules are in place in GSMNP.

2) Yes, I think you did take my statement out of context. It's like complaining about all the "stupid" rocks in PA. I don't think the Smokies are actually stupid-it's a beautiful place, but talk to a lot of thrus and they'll tell you they were glad to finally exit the park and be able to tent. Different circumstances beget different opinions.

It's hard to detect sarcasm in a forum, but please don't tell me what I meant by my statement.

You have a beautiful state, by the way!

[JumpMaster Blaster]

If your hiking with a dog and want to stay in a shelter take a vote if the vote says yes then no problem but keep your nasty dog off my gear or they will be a problem.


Lone Wolf - I will not fall victim to online intimidation or passive aggressive insults to my integrity.

However if you, Kevin, or anyone else can tell me that shelters are legitimately off limits to dogs (whether in general or specific locations along the AT)....
THEN I'll respect that and setup my tarp. Without that I'm afraid "....Because...." just isn't good enough.

As a dog owner that has taken her hiking, I would ask first if anyone had heartburn with my dog being in there, but that never happens because I bring a bigger tent when she comes along, and minus extreme weather wouldn't take her in there at all.

I dont like when she's wet and shakes all over my gear-I can see how that would piss someone else off.

The same courtesy should go for lighting up a cigarette or "other" substances in a shelter as well.

[Dogtra]

Shelters seem to attract the kind of people best avoided such as snorers, moochers, car campers, party all nighters. I like dogs but dont want to share floor space with them. I seen some bad behavior such as public sex, drinking then puking, drunken late night gunfire at shelters.

Shelters attract hikers that like or want to use them. Please be careful with your insults. To judge people based on their shelter of choice is foolish.
While I have seen drinking in and around shelters, I thankfully haven't seen sex displays or people firing off guns.

[Dogtra]

for all the bitching on WB about dogs! its no where near that bad on the trail :-)

Very true, that.
Just want to thank you, CrumbSnatcher, for remaining civil and level headed in all your posts.

[Dogtra]

you would like me in person :). may i ask if you've ever hiked long distance on the AT? have any of the dog handlers/owners that you know done any long distance backpacking? and do you make your dog carry a pack?

No, I don't think I would.
I have hiked long distance on the AT.
Yes, some have.
Yes, when hiking. Unless we're resting, camping, or on a difficult section of trail (I carry his saddlebags in that case).

[Dogtra]

One of my pet peves, walking with my dog in the park and someone insists on their dog approaching mine for the sniff test. I loudly tell them to heel their dog. They don't ! and look at me like I'm a jerk. and say " the dog was just trying to be friendly" my dog likes people but not other dogs. My dog has snapped at other dogs never at a person. They claim their dog is well controlled , then why the tight leash.

I understand. Unfortunately that happens a lot these days. Most people in society don't know how to read canine behavior, they don't respect boundaries, and don't see any harm or fault in the actions of their dogs or themselves. Would suggest not raising your voice at them in the future. You want to teach them better manners, not immediately put them on the defensive.

I have a similar pet peeve. When people approach my dog and pet him without permission. It drives me crazy sometimes. Recently a couple approached me and the woman immediately stepped in and began petting him. What did I do? I started to pet her male companion. It had the desired effect. In the conversation that followed she learned how to properly ASK for permission and to respect it.



Dogtra maybe your dog is as well behaved as you say. or maybe he is a situation as above, I do not want my gear walked on and knocked over,
I have no way of judging if your claims are accurate or not, until something happens, There are certainly a lot of dog owners that are blind to their dog's misbehavior. somehow I doubt that you'll buy me a new sleeping bag if your walks on and tears mine.
Bottom line! I have a right to be suspicious of your dog,
YOU DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO INFLICT YOUR DOG ON OTHER PEOPLE. Too much crap has happened from people with mis behavied dogs for me to 100% believe you.

Actually I would buy you a new sleeping bag if my dog damaged yours.
Perhaps it is all in the word "inflict" that Slo go'en decided to use. I'm not saying I have the right to sic my dog on you with fangs or tongue. I am saying that I have the right to take him out there and coexist.
I fully understand and even sympathize with you over your bad experiences with bad dog owners. Yet I'll let you judge my dog and myself in person, not over the internet. I'm sorry but I'll not leave my dog at home because I don't have your 100% belief in me.

Take care.

[bangorme]

I have a similar pet peeve. When people approach my dog and pet him without permission. It drives me crazy sometimes. Recently a couple approached me and the woman immediately stepped in and began petting him. What did I do? I started to pet her male companion. It had the desired effect. In the conversation that followed she learned how to properly ASK for permission and to respect it.


That is quite a bizarre story. I guess that I'd expect someone with a dog that expected to be asked for permission to pet it, (unless it's a labeled service animal) to keep it out of public places, which includes the AT. I've met many dogs on the trail and they usually approach me with their tails wagging wanting attention. I pet them. Some dogs aren't as outwardly friendly so I ask the owners if they are friendly. I pet them if they are friendly. Perhaps you might want to pin a sign to the front of your shirt informing people that they need to ask permission to pet your dog. I suspect that would solve the problem, and I doubt you'll get many requests lol.

[saltysack]

That is quite a bizarre story. I guess that I'd expect someone with a dog that expected to be asked for permission to pet it, (unless it's a labeled service animal) to keep it out of public places, which includes the AT. I've met many dogs on the trail and they usually approach me with their tails wagging wanting attention. I pet them. Some dogs aren't as outwardly friendly so I ask the owners if they are friendly. I pet them if they are friendly. Perhaps you might want to pin a sign to the front of your shirt informing people that they need to ask permission to pet your dog. I suspect that would solve the problem, and I doubt you'll get many requests lol.

Haaaa...this post is very entertaining...



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[Dogtra]

@ Alligator
When Lone Wolf posted the link I immediately read up on it but thank you for posting it regardless. Please understand what parts of that article are regulations/requirements and what parts are suggestions and considerations. Also don't make the mistake as summing me up as inconsiderate, irresponsible, or unreasonable. I am being extremely reasonable. I've stated many times what I would and wouldn't do concerning my dog in shelters. I'm not sitting behind this screen cackling evilly like some mad villain.

If I attempted to stay with my dog in a shelter I would try for him to be between me and a side wall, on the foot of my bag or at my head if its crowded. Worry is a part of life, sadly. We can worry about so many things in and out of a shelter environment. Yet I'll let the behavior of my dog speak for itself. People are more unpredictable than dogs. IF my dog did anything but stay on his pad in a shelter, Alligator, he and I would lose all rights to stay in them again. You may forgive him later - but I would not.

The amount of unhealthy allergens in shelters should keep us all away. If someone has a severe allergy to dogs and is hiking in territory that allows them, they should be prepared. The same with people with other allergies. Who is to say a dog didn't rest inside a shelter before moving on hours before? Or that someone didn't leave a trace of nut butter somewhere there too? But lets say we dog have a case of a dog and a dog allergic individual. Where is the line drawn then if staying on a designated pad in a shelter and/or on leash around a shelter isn't good enough? Am I then not allowed to eat at the nearby picnic table with my dog on a down/stay beneath me? Is 10 yards away satisfactory? 50 yards? 100 yards? What about sharing a shuttle?
Do you see where that can lead?

[Dogtra]

That is quite a bizarre story. I guess that I'd expect someone with a dog that expected to be asked for permission to pet it, (unless it's a labeled service animal) to keep it out of public places, which includes the AT. I've met many dogs on the trail and they usually approach me with their tails wagging wanting attention. I pet them. Some dogs aren't as outwardly friendly so I ask the owners if they are friendly. I pet them if they are friendly. Perhaps you might want to pin a sign to the front of your shirt informing people that they need to ask permission to pet your dog. I suspect that would solve the problem, and I doubt you'll get many requests lol.

The fact that you believe so is proof how far gone people are in this society.
My dog = my property. Simply put. Nobody has the right to pet him without permission, whether he is a pet or otherwise. Its just people aren't educated on that and just do what they want. My dog does have a vest stating that he is working and very clearly states DO NOT PET. Would you like to know what happens more often when he is wearing it? People reach for him. Yup. Its like pushing the red button that says "Do Not Push this Button" directly beneath it. More over when I correct these people for petting him, many of them get an attitude with me.

[Dogtra]

My question is what would your dog due in the event of a encounter with a bear? Will it run with its tail between its legs? Will it bark and just generally raise hell? Worst of all will it cause the bear to go on the offensive and attack you and your dog and anyone else around you? This is something that could happen while hiking the AT or while camped at a shelter. If you can't answer these questions honestly is it worth bringing your dog with you? I certainly would not want to lose a dog under such conditions.

Just something to think about.

He would sit or stand near me with his eyes on it if possible and his nose working over time, taking it in. The same as he treats goats, horses, cats, birds, cattle, deer, and... skunk (though I ran like a banshee with him on a recall when I realized it). Don't know how he would react to being charged as it hasn't happened by a bear yet. When cattle or horses do it, he just returns to a full heel and waits for me to take over.

There are risks for everyone that chooses to step outside their homes.
What keeps us doing it? Rewards.

[Dogtra]

All you got to know is ; IF? your dog is clean and well behaved, then the last place you want it is shackin up next me for the night. By morning i will have taught it how to beg and hump legs and it will be infested with fleas, ticks, ear mites. And also have picked up a bad case of the mange.

you've been warned. :D

Forgive me in advance if you were only jesting here.

But if you touch my dog or any other part of my property with the intent to cause harm, be ready for what comes afterwards. When the dust settles, you and I are separated, I'll gladly see you in court.

I respect you and yours - I deserve the same.

[RED-DOG]

Dogtra you need to calm down just a little bit. when someone posts to a thread it's their opinion it's not personal.

[illabelle]

Forgive me in advance if you were only jesting here.

But if you touch my dog or any other part of my property with the intent to cause harm, be ready for what comes afterwards. When the dust settles, you and I are separated, I'll gladly see you in court.

I respect you and yours - I deserve the same.

Dogtra, You've done very well at explaining your reasoning and defending your position. Some of us agree with you; some of us don't. That's just how it is.
The big green smiley face :D is a clear indication that he was only jesting, certainly not provoking. And it may even be an attempt to interject a little humor and calm into the discussion. Your post above was an unwelcome escalation.

[daddytwosticks]

Hey...don't you all find it ironic that the OP's name is squeezebox and we are all arguing about fitting people, dogs, etc. into wooden boxes in the woods? :)

[Dogtra]

Dogtra, You've done very well at explaining your reasoning and defending your position. Some of us agree with you; some of us don't. That's just how it is.
The big green smiley face :D is a clear indication that he was only jesting, certainly not provoking. And it may even be an attempt to interject a little humor and calm into the discussion. Your post above was an unwelcome escalation.

Large reason why I posted the first sentence. Internet communication has its faults. Its hard for me to read something like that and think its okay just because he planted an emote on it. If it was truly uncalled for like you say, then I apologize to you and him. Sorry.

[atmilkman]

Hey...don't you all find it ironic that the OP's name is squeezebox and we are all arguing about fitting people, dogs, etc. into wooden boxes in the woods? :)
That is ironic. Squeezing everything and everybody into a box.

[Ender]

Everyone take a deep breath and step away from the keyboard. It's all just opinion here, no need to get in a huff about it. Please let's all try to dial it back a bit and be more friendly to each other.

[saltysack]

Opinions are like A.. Holes....everyone has one!!! This is topic is like a car wreck....can't help but lookin...


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[illabelle]

Large reason why I posted the first sentence. Internet communication has its faults. Its hard for me to read something like that and think its okay just because he planted an emote on it. If it was truly uncalled for like you say, then I apologize to you and him. Sorry.

Thank you!

On another subject, I must confess I am one of those irresponsible dog owners. As I read several of your posts, I envied your control over your dog. I can count on my dog to do whatever HE wants. He's an 8-year-old rescued Border collie, and he lives up to the breed's reputation in intelligence and energy. He knows where the food comes from, and he's learned to enjoy being petted, but that's about all the control I have. He cooperates when it suits him.
My dog doesn't go with me on the trail. The only place he goes is to the vet, so nobody on here will ever meet him.

[WingedMonkey]

Every year I see posts about how dogs keep bears away from shelters.

You folks that believe in the old tale that bears are afraid of dogs might want to do some Google.

There are several attacks each year in the Eastern United States where either owner and dog or just dogs are attacked.

Probably won't find it on the AT, because you won't find bear attacks on the AT.......Yet.

[Likeapuma]

Forgive me in advance if you were only jesting here.

But if you touch my dog or any other part of my property with the intent to cause harm, be ready for what comes afterwards. When the dust settles, you and I are separated, I'll gladly see you in court.

I respect you and yours - I deserve the same.

I think he was possibly wooing your K9 companion for cuddling & swapping of pesky insects lol.

I'm jealous of your dog's behavior as well. Can't imagine the countless hours it's taken to get to that level. I'm content that my dog will come back immediately when told to do so, regardless of what's catching his attention (haven't tried a bear yet though lol).

I agree with you that if a dog is well behaved & not a bothersome to others, it has every right to stay with you in the shelter. I think many dog owners, on trails, just let their dogs do as they please, resulting in the negative opinions you see on here.

[Mags]

I finally figured it out: Shelters were intentionally built to collect in one place all of the people with all of the bad habits listed in this thread so that the rest of us can enjoy a peaceful night alone in the woods.

That's just awesome. :)

http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/picard_clapping.gif

I think many issues could be resolved by tenting it. My own rule of thumb was I would not use shelters unless there was ample room in them and only if it was cold/rainy. If the weather is nice and/or the shelter is crowded, I would rather tent.

[TNhiker]

I think many dog owners, on trails, just let their dogs do as they please, resulting in the negative opinions you see on here.




that's exactly how i see it....and not only on a trail, but in "normal" society as well...........

and most people think its okay as in "hey, it's just a dog----what harm is it?"

one thing ive never understood about people walking their dogs in my neighborhood----why do you let your dog poop on other people's lawns? and then not clean it up? the reason you're walking your pooch around is so that you dont have dog poop in your lawn.......guess what---- i dont want it in my lawn as well.........

[Sarcasm the elf]

That is quite a bizarre story. I guess that I'd expect someone with a dog that expected to be asked for permission to pet it, (unless it's a labeled service animal) to keep it out of public places, which includes the AT. I've met many dogs on the trail and they usually approach me with their tails wagging wanting attention. I pet them. Some dogs aren't as outwardly friendly so I ask the owners if they are friendly. I pet them if they are friendly. Perhaps you might want to pin a sign to the front of your shirt informing people that they need to ask permission to pet your dog. I suspect that would solve the problem, and I doubt you'll get many requests lol.

Yeah, I've learned that when I pass someone, either on the trail or around town, I put my dog on the opposite side of me so that they can't approach her without my permission. My dog is trained and socialized to the point of being "bombproof," it's the humans I don't trust.

On a similar note i'm quite comfortable reading a dog's body language and already know from about ten feet away whether or not I am going to let an unfamiliar dog approach me. I find it a rather comical when untrained owners walk their dog up to me, clueless of the fact that I've already sized their dog up. Inevitably the dog is already sniffing my hand when they announce "I'ts okay, he's friendly," I respond by saying " I know, he already told me." :cool:

[Sarcasm the elf]

I think many dog owners, on trails, just let their dogs do as they please, resulting in the negative opinions you see on here.

What people need to keep in mind as well is that those irresponsible owners aren't the ones sitting here on WB, sharing training tips and arguing about etiquette. They're the ones who either don't know or don't care that fido os running around out of control and annoying everyone while they're on their big camping adventure.

All of this anti-dog venting really only serves to discourage people who came here to get useful advice about hiking with their dogs. It's a shame because this site is a great resource, but the negativity causes a lot of new members to leave and not come back.

[FatMan]

That is quite a bizarre story. I guess that I'd expect someone with a dog that expected to be asked for permission to pet it, (unless it's a labeled service animal) to keep it out of public places, which includes the AT. I've met many dogs on the trail and they usually approach me with their tails wagging wanting attention. I pet them. Some dogs aren't as outwardly friendly so I ask the owners if they are friendly. I pet them if they are friendly. Perhaps you might want to pin a sign to the front of your shirt informing people that they need to ask permission to pet your dog. I suspect that would solve the problem, and I doubt you'll get many requests lol.I hike with my dogs on the trail about 5 times a week. I have spent years training my dogs to sit off to the side of the trail while hikers go by. And as they do they just look super cute to all hikers and the vast majority ask if they can pet them. But at times a hiker just walks towards the dogs and starts petting them. I cannot expect my dogs to hold their command when total strangers approach them and touch them. So yes, please ask to pet my dogs. That way I can release them from my command and then you can pet them all you want. Everyone wants well trained dogs on the trail but when people just walk up and start touching them while under a command it just makes the training that much harder. I certainly don't request that you ask to pet my dogs because I don't want you to pet them. I ask because it is essential to ensuring the next time I command my dog off the trail to sit and stay, they will. Dog training is all about trust and order.

BTW, when I back pack with my dogs we would never stay at a shelter. Even with well trained dogs it is asking for trouble.

[Another Kevin]

On a similar note i'm quite comfortable reading a dog's body language and already know from about ten feet away whether or not I am going to let an unfamiliar dog approach me. I find it a rather comical when untrained owners walk their dog up to me, clueless of the fact that I've already sized their dog up. Inevitably the dog is already sniffing my hand when they announce "I'ts okay, he's friendly," I respond by saying " I know, he already told me." :cool:

One of my favorite lines in that situation is to greet the dog: "Oh, aren't you a ferocious brute! You don't know whether to lick me to death or beat me to death with that tail! But don't get too friendly - my cats can be very jealous!" When dealing with a poorly trained owner, that sort of thing is important. The owner is anxious about how this other human will react. The dog doesn't know what's scaring the owner but can read it, and gets all defensive.

[MuddyWaters]

Some dogs are freaked out by people with hiking poles, or even hats and sunglasses. Even if a dog is well behaved normally, it can do unpredictable things when put into situations its not comfortable in.

I was stopped and talking to a woman on a trail recently, her normally well behaved dog ran up to an approaching hiker, and bit him on his shorts, ripping them. The dog thought he was protecting his "home" and owner. This dog was very well behaved the rest of the time, but it would bark at certain people it didnt like. Any dog on the trail belongs on a leash around other people. For the dog and owners sake, as well as others.

[TNhiker]

Any dog on the trail belongs on a leash around other people. For the dog and owners sake, as well as others.




agreed.....


and to prove this point, just look at the other thread about the guy getting attacked by a bear after his dog tried messing with the bear and its cubs........

[johnnybgood]

I was stopped and talking to a woman on a trail recently, her normally well behaved dog ran up to an approaching hiker, and bit him on his shorts, ripping them. The dog thought he was protecting his "home" and owner. This dog was very well behaved the rest of the time, but it would bark at certain people it didnt like.

Cookerhiker, in his book about his Colorado thru hike had this very thing happen to him. The dogs owner just brushed off the incident stating his dog was a little overly protective . Well then if he knew this in advance as he obviously did then his dog needed to be on a leash.

[MuddyWaters]

All the guy said to the woman was "you need to keep your F***in dog on a leash" and never stopped. If it had been a guy that was the owner instead of an attractive woman, I think he would have made a bit more out of it. I caught up to the guy a few days later and got a pic to send her .

The guilty party:
28150


The damage:
28149

[Likeapuma]

Any dog on the trail belongs on a leash around other people. For the dog and owners sake, as well as others.

I whole heartedly agree. I'll admit that I allow my dog off leash when we're not on a crowded trail, but as soon as I/he sees someone, he's called right back & placed on leash. For this very reason, I try to pick trails/times that have less traffic.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Any dog on the trail belongs on a leash around other people. For the dog and owners sake, as well as others.




You won't find any objections here. We leash up at the first sight of other hikers. Like I said, I trust my dog, but I still like to have control of each meeting.

[Blue Mountain Edward]

Most shelters are small and a dog takes up room. If a person only hiked a few miles, and has a car a few miles away that person should not be in a shelter.

[July]

Just lost two Dogs this year due to age (15yrs) blk and yellow labs. Best friends. Countless trail miles, but true love was the water. Loved the canoe rides, and when kayaking would run the bank, with intermittant swims (multiday trips). As to hiking, they would be leashed when approaching indiv/groups, as peoples responses to dogs vary greatly. As for shelters or tight group camping, my dogs were always more content under a tarp with me. Large groups of strangers seemed to keep them watchful. I wanted them to get the best nights sleep possible. And me too!

[TNhiker]

Most shelters are small and a dog takes up room. If a person only hiked a few miles, and has a car a few miles away that person should not be in a shelter.



Nope.....sorry but a shelter is for any hiker---long or short---the distance doesn't matter....

[Tuckahoe]

Most shelters are small and a dog takes up room. If a person only hiked a few miles, and has a car a few miles away that person should not be in a shelter.

Hmmm thanks for the heads up, as I didnt realize there were minimum miles traveled requirements:rolleyes::datz

[RockDoc]

All of these sad stories are why I just use shelters as a place to fill up with water, then hike up to the next ridge top to camp.

[squeezebox]

Can we get off the dog jagg , and get back to being respectfull to others in shelters and on the trail
Please!

[squeezebox]

but first let me say to dogtra that I've seen a very few dogs trained at the level he claims, If his claims are true I admire the relationship he has with his dog.

[Likeapuma]

get back to being respectfull to others in shelters and on the trail
Please!

I think that's the #1 ingredient to having a good time on the trail!

[JumpMaster Blaster]

I think he was possibly wooing your K9 companion for cuddling & swapping of pesky insects lol.

I'm jealous of your dog's behavior as well. Can't imagine the countless hours it's taken to get to that level. I'm content that my dog will come back immediately when told to do so, regardless of what's catching his attention (haven't tried a bear yet though lol).

I agree with you that if a dog is well behaved & not a bothersome to others, it has every right to stay with you in the shelter. I think many dog owners, on trails, just let their dogs do as they please, resulting in the negative opinions you see on here.

I love my dog more than I LIKE some people, but when i go to a friend's house to eat and their 3 dogs are sniffing around my plate, I tell the owners I'm not comfortable with their dogs doing that. They say "oh they're just being nosy". NO- no dogs sniffing my food.

[mrcoffeect]

Large reason why I posted the first sentence. Internet communication has its faults. Its hard for me to read something like that and think its okay just because he planted an emote on it. If it was truly uncalled for like you say, then I apologize to you and him. Sorry.

I truly was trying to lighten the mood a little. But your weak attempt at an apology does little for me. You think very highly of yourself and it shows. Five minutes at a shelter listening to you go on about your dog and yourself would be enough to make me thow up my tent on a pile of rocks just get away.

[rickb]

My dog does have a vest stating that he is working and very clearly states DO NOT PET.

If you have a service animal people do need to make different accommodations, I think.

[atmilkman]

If you have a service animal people do need to make different accommodations, I think.
This is true. Check out the FAQ's. All you need is a doctor's note.


http://usdogregistry.org/register/emotional-support-dog-basic-kit/

[Pedaling Fool]

I like dogs, but it's the owners that are the real problem; just watch a few episodes with Cesar Millan and you'll see their ignorance.

I see leashed dogs all the time on my runs and the owners see me coming, but still they allow the dog to go way out to the side on these expandable leashes and it seems as though they think I need to adjust my course to go way around their "expandable zone", so I pick a line and I stay with it and almost always the dog walks out to investigate me and I always put my hand out as I pass, just in case, but usually he just sniffs my hand. However, on occasion they jump at me and I swat their nose and they back off. I'm just waiting for one of these owners to say something or better, yet, for the dog to actually attack me:). To be continued...:D


On the trail I mostly remember unleashed dogs, but of the leashed ones most people keep their dog inline, so maybe it's just a thing with leashed dogs around here:confused:

[Dogtra]

I truly was trying to lighten the mood a little. But your weak attempt at an apology does little for me. You think very highly of yourself and it shows. Five minutes at a shelter listening to you go on about your dog and yourself would be enough to make me thow up my tent on a pile of rocks just get away.

At this point I don't care if you accept my apology. You threatened to damage my dog's training and his health, but it was ok to you because it was "a joke" and you used an emote. For the record I didn't threaten you for saying what you did, but instead if you did what you were "joking" about. I fully understand the limitations of this communication medium and I believe you do as well. Try to make better jests in the future, please.

As for how I act in shelters - You don't know what I'll do or what I'll talk about. This is Whiteblaze, not the AT. I'm defending my position in this thread, I'm not submitting to other people's opinions alone. From all the time I've ever spent on the AT... I've never heard a conversation starting with, "This one time, on Whiteblaze...". Nor would I want to draw extra attention to my dog out there than he will already get. Forcing dog talk is the same as gear talk... You just don't do it. If people ask, sure, but otherwise no.

But you're only trying to insult me here. * shrugs * Nobody can stop you from doing so. Just know that it degrades any standing you have, just as mine was degraded when I responded to your "joke".

Have a good weekend.

[Dogtra]

Also, thanks to Kevin, I have been educated on an area of the AT where dogs are allowed to hike but are prohibited from shelters. I thank him for that because I don't like being ignorant to laws/regulations that may apply to me.

[Dogtra]

Sorry for derailing the Shelter Etiquette thread so severely that it has been largely stuck on dogs, everyone.

Shelter etiquette tip:
Don't treat people at shelters or on the trail how you see them treated on Whiteblaze.

[adamkrz]

Sorry for derailing the Shelter Etiquette thread so severely that it has been largely stuck on dogs, everyone.

Shelter etiquette tip:
Don't treat people at shelters or on the trail how you see them treated on Whiteblaze.

I only read a few posts but whiteblaze does not reflect what is really on the trail, I will protect my dog at all costs and have never had a better hiking buddy, Getting ready now for a couple of days with him on the trail, Dogs are great and Mean people suck.

[Pedaling Fool]

Sorry for derailing the Shelter Etiquette thread so severely that it has been largely stuck on dogs, everyone.

It don't matter, as many have said before what's on whiteblaze doesn't reflect trail reality, so it's a pointless discussion, since apparently the vast majority of hikers don't know what we're talking about, then we just have to go out there and figure out for ourselves:banana



The minority view on here doesn't matter:p:)

[squeezebox]

Mean dogs suck much worse than mean people. Mean dog owners suck even worse.

[squeezebox]

The minority view is that you have a right to bring your misbehaved self and misbehaved dog on the trail.
And that somehow the rest of are supposed to put up with the antisocial behavior.

[bangorme]

If you have a service animal people do need to make different accommodations, I think.

I don't believe that Dogtra claimed his/her dog to be a service dog, but instead a "working dog." Certainly, I'd expect anyone to give a service dog room in a shelter if the owner was given room.

[Dogtra]

I don't believe that Dogtra claimed his/her dog to be a service dog, but instead a "working dog." Certainly, I'd expect anyone to give a service dog room in a shelter if the owner was given room.

You are correct.
He is not a service dog.

[kayak karl]

every dog owner thinks their dog is great and they are a good owner. kind of like hikers with musical instruments think they're musicians. :p

[MuddyWaters]

Sorry for derailing the Shelter Etiquette thread so severely that it has been largely stuck on dogs, everyone.

Shelter etiquette tip:
Don't treat people at shelters or on the trail how you see them treated on Whiteblaze.
At least you didn't mention guns

[Lone Wolf]

Mean dogs suck much worse than mean people. Mean dog owners suck even worse.

hahaha. you got that right :D

[Lone Wolf]

I don't believe that Dogtra claimed his/her dog to be a service dog, but instead a "working dog." Certainly, I'd expect anyone to give a service dog room in a shelter if the owner was given room.

i know folks with real service dogs and would not think of staying in a shelter

[saltysack]

I only read a few posts but whiteblaze does not reflect what is really on the trail, I will protect my dog at all costs and have never had a better hiking buddy, Getting ready now for a couple of days with him on the trail, Dogs are great and Mean people suck.

Agree!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jjozgrunt]

Well as an aussie that is going to visit with the other fine people and dogs doing the AT next year I have certainly learnt a lot. We only have shelters here in the Alpine region and even those are only supposed to be used in an emergency. Also dogs are banned from all state and national parks so you never see them when you're bush walking.
"THE FOLLOWING IS A JOKE" :)
What I have learnt is that I can expect some swinging parties with booze and drugs at the shelters. Rampant nudity and casual sex YIPPY. We get to lynch all dog owners that come into the shelter, but please don't hurt the dogs! (Must carry my own rope so I'm not seen as a hanger on.) I can eject anyone that hasn't bush walked as far as me that day, unless they are good looking (Ok I just threw that part in). I can fart and snore as much as I like even at the dinner table. I can discretely get changed even if that entails flashing the odd wee willy (Does that include dancing naked on the picnic tables after the first bottle of moonshine?). If I get there first I can sometimes set the rules (Not absolutely clear on the circumstances here.) What about vegemite and scroggen are they allowed in shelters? I wish people would stop mentioning bears, we don't have animal in Australia, except in the water, that can eat you. I can see myself having a fabulous time or getting locked up, maybe a bit of both. I am so looking forward to the AT next year! The cultural and language faux pas will be epic.

[2015 Lady Thru-Hiker]

Well as an aussie that is going to visit with the other fine people and dogs doing the AT next year I have certainly learnt a lot. We only have shelters here in the Alpine region and even those are only supposed to be used in an emergency. Also dogs are banned from all state and national parks so you never see them when you're bush walking.
"THE FOLLOWING IS A JOKE" :)
What I have learnt is that I can expect some swinging parties with booze and drugs at the shelters. Rampant nudity and casual sex YIPPY. We get to lynch all dog owners that come into the shelter, but please don't hurt the dogs! (Must carry my own rope so I'm not seen as a hanger on.) I can eject anyone that hasn't bush walked as far as me that day, unless they are good looking (Ok I just threw that part in). I can fart and snore as much as I like even at the dinner table. I can discretely get changed even if that entails flashing the odd wee willy (Does that include dancing naked on the picnic tables after the first bottle of moonshine?). If I get there first I can sometimes set the rules (Not absolutely clear on the circumstances here.) What about vegemite and scroggen are they allowed in shelters? I wish people would stop mentioning bears, we don't have animal in Australia, except in the water, that can eat you. I can see myself having a fabulous time or getting locked up, maybe a bit of both. I am so looking forward to the AT next year! The cultural and language faux pas will be epic.


Love your sense of humor and wit! It does seem like there is quite a learning curve outside of gear and how to put one foot in front of the other. Hope I run into you out there and catch the naked table dance :)

[Sarcasm the elf]

I am so looking forward to the AT next year! The cultural and language faux pas will be epic Ah yes, the USA and Australia, two countries separated by a common language. ;)

You should take a look at Jacko's trail journal if you have not already seen it. If was written by a father and adult son from Perth who hiked most of the A.T. last year and definitely made the most of the trip.
http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=398405

Vegemite is hard to find in the US, if you need to have some mailed to you on the trail I should be able to assist.

[Nooga]

Over the years, I have stayed in shelters less and less. Most my issues in shelters has been people arriving at the shelter late and waking everyone up, or the people that feel they need to get up before dawn. IMO, dogs are not appropriate in shelters for any number of reasons.

[jjozgrunt]

Thanks Elf but I actually hate vegemite, very un-australian of me, but thanks for the offer. I've read Jacko's journal and have exchanged some emails with him. All the journals provide some info, but every walk is different, so I take from them what I can and will do my own thing in the end. The only thing I'm planning is getting to the start by the 13th with food and water after that it depends on what I encounter.

[runt13]

SO!
no farting, snoreing, talking, sleep walking, cell phones, dirty dogs, wet dogs, bad dogs, dogs that bark, fart, snore, get happy, mad, or sad. no tents or hammocks inside, no nudity, dont argue, no messes, no fires, no drugs, no alchohol, no music, no firearms, bear traps.

however its open season on the mice and rodents that call that place there permenent home!

got it!

just ordered a camo hammock, with a gun rack....ill be fine!

RUNT ''13''

[Sarcasm the elf]

SO!
no farting, snoreing, talking, sleep walking, cell phones, dirty dogs, wet dogs, bad dogs, dogs that bark, fart, snore, get happy, mad, or sad. no tents or hammocks inside, no nudity, dont argue, no messes, no fires, no drugs, no alchohol, no music, no firearms, bear traps.

however its open season on the mice and rodents that call that place there permenent home!

got it!

just ordered a camo hammock, with a gun rack....ill be fine!

RUNT ''13''

Did you set the silnylon gunrack or the cuban fiber gunrack? The cuban fiber one is lighter but might slightly less durable.

[kayak karl]

there can be 12 + in the shelter and another 2 dozen around it and it only takes one inconsiderate person to ruin the night for all. one night it was the guy yelling for everyone to be quiet. i only heard him :rolleyes:

[runt13]

thanks elf, now i have more choices to make!

[Another Kevin]

SO!
no farting, snoreing, talking, sleep walking, cell phones, dirty dogs, wet dogs, bad dogs, dogs that bark, fart, snore, get happy, mad, or sad. no tents or hammocks inside, no nudity, dont argue, no messes, no fires, no drugs, no alchohol, no music, no firearms, bear traps.

however its open season on the mice and rodents that call that place there permenent home!

got it!

just ordered a camo hammock, with a gun rack....ill be fine!

RUNT ''13''

Very nearly. :)

Farting - better an empty house than a bad tenant! :)
Snoring - most snorers can't help it. Tenting apart would be appreciated, but isn't strictly necessary. Bring earplugs if you're sensitive.
Talking, including cell phones - Don't make loud noices that will disturb others. And don't inflict HALF a conversation on anyone. Step away, just as polite people would do if they have to take a call in a restaurant or at a party.
Sleepwalking - falls in the same category as getting up to answer Nature's call: unavoidable.
Dogs - I've seen wonderfully well-behaved trail dogs, and envied the fact that their owners had time to train them properly. And I've seen dogs that sleep in shelters. I've very, very seldom met a dog that belonged to both groups. Dogs are illegal in shelters in some places.
Tents in shelters - Illegal in NY state, I don't know about elsewhere.
Hammocks in shelters - Few shelters are built to withstand the sidewise pull of a hammock, and making the walls of the shelter crooked is NOT polite. Hammocking in shelters is illegal in NY state, I don't know about elsewhere.
Nudity - Don't flash people. Don't freak out if you see someone's you-know-what or someone sees yours.
Arguments - Same category as other loud talking.
Drugs and alcohol - Did you bring enough for everybody? :)
Firearms - Discharging firearms in a shelter is louder than most other loud noises, and loud noises are not polite in shelters. Brandishing firearms is rude in most company. It's none of your business what I have in my pack.
Bear traps - Couldn't you bring mouse traps instead? They'd be more useful!

Music - This is open to discussion. If I'm playing an instrument at a shelter, I always stop and apologize if anyone else arrives. I often get the reply, "oh, don't stop, I was enjoying that!" And the evening where two couples started dancing a Scottish reel in front of the shelter while I played (recorder? pennywhistle? Don't recall which I brought.) was magical.

[Dogtra]

Music - This is open to discussion. If I'm playing an instrument at a shelter, I always stop and apologize if anyone else arrives. I often get the reply, "oh, don't stop, I was enjoying that!" And the evening where two couples started dancing a Scottish reel in front of the shelter while I played (recorder? pennywhistle? Don't recall which I brought.) was magical.

I love live music on the trail. Whether the musician in question is an amateur or professional doesn't matter to me. There were many nights where I was quite literally soothed to sleep by someone that was kind enough to play. Those memories will never be forgotten.

[jjozgrunt]

I love live music on the trail. Whether the musician in question is an amateur or professional doesn't matter to me. There were many nights where I was quite literally soothed to sleep by someone that was kind enough to play. Those memories will never be forgotten.

I don't play an instrument but I like to walk some days with one earplug in and sing along. I receive many comments on my singing. Try working out just what a cross between a gravel road and a honking duck would sound like? If your on the trail next year you might hear one.

[July]

On a music note... After crossing Newfound Gap GSMNP bout 5 minutes up the trail started hearing flute music. This nice experience while walking through the woods continued for the next 3-4 minutes when we found the source. Hiker sitting on the side of the trail playing, the music carried so well because he was sitting in front of a huge/tall/long rock wall. Nice

[ChefATLTCT]

I have a cat

[CrumbSnatcher]

I have a cat
bring it!.......................................

[rocketsocks]

I have a cat


bring it!.......................................

:eek: say it ain't so. :D

[Sarcasm the elf]

I have a cat

You mean like this guy?

http://www.trailgallery.com/photos/1183/tj1183_060503_000000_22457.jpg

http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=36432

[squeezebox]

Kevin and others!
We have a nice little group that meets weekly to learn Contra and Square dance calling, here in St. Louis.
If you can play Irish or early American tunes, I can call a short dance at shelters or hostels.