The OTHER kind of backpacking

[titanium_hiker]

You know, the students bumming around europe etc. Would you do it? what kind of gear and clothing would you take? how what "ci's" of backpack?

thanks.

[DMA, 2000]

I've done it, and loved it, though I'm a bit old for it now, perhaps. I'd want a pack with a zipper, rather than a top loader, for accessibility. I'd bring nicer clothes, including some things that can be combined to give at least one somewhat decent outfit. I'd also include a small daypacky sort of thing.

[Whistler]

I always try to go for the nice, clean, respectable look. I was in London one time and got asked for directions. That was really cool. Foreign travel is a nice chance to dress a little classy and ditch the jeans and logos.

For 'stuff,' the rules similar to hiking apply rules apply: light, easy-clean, quick-dry, versatile for both outfits and for weather, nothing showy or attention-getting. Clothing really depends on where and when you're going. Don't carry more than one backpack, unless you have more than one person. Add the smallest dayback you can get away with.

I like this site: http://www.onebag.com/home.html. And of course, WB user Verber also has some great notes on his website [anyone else not surprised?]:)
-Mark

[rickb]

Gear:

1. A pick-pocket proof pouch (even when sleeping) sewn into your clothes (you can start with the belt pouch sold by Eagle Creek)
2. Locks for zippers on pack

Or for a more adventuous approach:

3. Rolex Watch and God Bless America T-shirt

[DMA, 2000]

Oh, and unless you're Canadian, under no circumstances should you display a Canadian flag patch.

[frieden]

I've hiked around the UK and Ireland twice. I have a really bad habit of picking up whatever accent is around me (kind of like a parrot), without realizing it. Within 3 days, people thought I was a local, and were asking me for information. Ooopps!

Definitely put locks on everything, and wear a neck pouch. Most small towns only take cash, and within the larger ones, you'll have better luck with a credit card than traveller's checks. Buy money within the country you need it - it's cheaper, and never buy money at the airport/station (very expensive).

When you get to a city like London, go right to the train station, and check in your backpack. Then, you can walk around and see the sights, without it.

You can normally camp in any field for free, if you go up and ask the owner. I had to wait for the ferry in Hollyhead for the next day. I was able to camp at a farm, just by asking the farmer if it was ok. My daughter even got to play with the cats.

If you are going to go, consider signing up for a class or two online, and then go get an international student ID card. There are huge discounts for everything from transportation to beer for students in Europe.

If you go to the UK or Ireland, plan on rain ... rain, rain, rain, rain, rain ... Also, beware of small roads with stone walls or hedges on either side. People drive like mad men on them.

I only hitched once, and then are best friends to this day.

If you are American, you need to realize that no one likes you, no matter what country you go to. The nice thing about going to a tourist town, is that they see you as a walking dollar sign, and will treat you like gold.

This is well known (I wish I had known it) - in Scotland, the first person who will rip you off is the bus driver. Carry exact change, hide your money, and don't spend too much time there, unless you are with a tour group.

Public transportation in Europe, for the most part, is excellent. You'll come home wondering why the US can't get their act together.

Know when "holiday" time is, and you can stay on the college campuses. Some hostels are good, and some aren't, but they are all pretty cheap.

"Pub grub" is the cheapest, and best food. You may as well have an ale, while you are there!

I would love to take a year, and hike around Europe.

[frieden]

Oh, I used a Kelty Red Cloud pack, warm clothes, rain gear, and my Merrill boots. It was just as cheap to stay in hostels, as campsites, so on my second trip, I didn't use a tent or sleeping bag. On the first trip, my daughter and I borrowed gear. I had a synthetic bag, and she had a down bag. She stayed warm.

[Creaky]

You know, the students bumming around europe etc. Would you do it? what kind of gear and clothing would you take? how what "ci's" of backpack?

thanks.

Rick Steves has a good list at:
http://www.ricksteves.com/plan/tips/packlist.htm

His site has a lot of good, time tested information on this subject. My personal list has shaken down into something very similar. A zippered pack for sure. I use an old Patagonia LBC carry-on (well under 3,000 ci., probably under 2,500), but it isn't made anymore. A Mountainsmith Ghost or something similar would be good if you expect to do a lot of walking, as opposed to hiking from station to hotel (everything I'm saying assumes you're not camping and don't need sleeping bag, tent, kitchen gear, etc.). Steves sells a very good carry-on. Also take a little unstructured knapsack or small duffel to use around town during the day, while your bigger pack is locked up somewhere. Steves sells one of these, too, but you can find versions at Campmor and other places for relatively little money.

Assume you'll be washing out one of your two sets of quick-dry undies and sox every night. It's really hard to be underdressed in today's Europe, but along with whatever you decide to wear daily, bring a decent pair of travel pants, and a decent cotton-poly shirt, with your least ratty fleece. Except for strenuous exercise, I'd advise not wearing shorts. (Long walking shorts for women are probably an exception.) In northern Europe you won’t need them, and I personally don't feel that in southern Europe they are culturally appropriate. (You do, of course, see them anyway.)

My hot tip is old news: don't forget to take your knife out of your pocket. If you're checking your baggage, put it in there. If you're not checking (by far the better way to go) just buy a knife over there (gotta have that corkscrew!). I have just this year decided to rent a mobile phone for my Eurotime. It gives us more flexibility: we can go our separate ways but coordinate our meeting-up. And it lets us call ahead for rooms or restaurant reservations without the hassle of trying to find a phone booth (where the phone may or may not work). Given the cost of the trip this is a minor expense. Google around for best info.

I use a leg stash rather than a belt or neck stash. Safer, I think. NEVER keep significant cash (more than $50), passport, ATM card, etc. in a fanny pack or pocket. I still take travelers' checks but haven't had to cash them for years: ATM all the way (this requires, of course, that you keep your ATM card safe--and probably that you bring an alternate ATM card that you leave somewhere in your locked luggage.

A tiny collapsible umbrella is worth its weight and space. You might also bring a poncho or similar raingear.

The US is more unpopular in Europe these days than ever before in my memory, including the Vietnam era, when I took my first few trips, but it is still generally true (unfortunately not as universally true) that individual Americans are treated well by individual Europeans. I think it's an opportunity not to be missed to get a look at the US appears from an outside perspective. It can be a shocker.

Have a great trip!

[DMA, 2000]

The nice thing about going to a tourist town, is that they see you as a walking dollar sign, and will treat you like gold.
I don't think that being a walking dollar sign gets you treated like gold in Europe. Dollars, unfortunately, are not as impressive as they used to be.

[titanium_hiker]

ha! I'm an aussie... but I know what you mean about dollars and descrimination- you guys gotta admit that the loud tourist goes before all of you and makes the reputation. :) everyone thinks I'm a crocodile hunter. (grrr..)

travel is fun. thanks for all the advice. any hammockers going to pipe up?

titanium

[Rain Man]

You know, the students bumming around europe etc.

TH, you might want to ask the Moderators to move this whole thread to the "Other Trails" forum, as it is not about the AT and doesn't belong here. There is that whole other forum, where people might look for just such a topic, and wouldn't find it if it's here.

Rain Man

.

[titanium_hiker]

sorry Rain Man- I didn't realise that general isn't as general as others I have seen. I've asked that it be moved.

[Just Jeff]

If you are American, you need to realize that no one likes you, no matter what country you go to.
I've been to several countries and never experienced this. One time in Italy they wouldn't let me in a club because it was "locals only" night, but that's about it. Many of the restaurants in Italy would give us free wine or after-dinner drinks just to get us to come back (we were there for three months at a time so repeat business was a good thing for them).

Everywhere else I went, people were either indifferent or asked me lots of questions.

In my opinion, it's "America" that Europeans don't like, not "Americans"...there's a difference to them. In a few countries (Slovenia and Croatia, for example), they were fascinated by us...we were almost like celebrities in the little clubs, simply because we WERE Americans.

But that's just my experience...I'm not saying discrimination doesn't happen. Just that "you need to realize that no one likes you, no matter what country you go to" is an unfair stereotype of the people in those other countries.

[Mags]

I always try to go for the nice, clean, respectable look. I was in London one time and got asked for directions. That was really cool. Foreign travel is a nice chance to dress a little classy and ditch the jeans and logos.


Recently did this type of trip in Italy. I ditched the shorts and sandals I usually wear and went with long pants and shirt. Had a neck wallet, carried a small daypack sometimes.

As with you, was often asked for directions. Unlike you, could not really reply too fluently. :)

Remember being at the train station, the an older grandmothertly type woman asking me if this was the train to Rome. Replied back in my broken Italian with a thick American accent that this was indeed the train. She was surprised I was American. Really cool for people to come up to me and start speaking rapid fire Italian. (Of course, rumor has it I do look a little Italian..even I don't speak it so well! ;)

Guess the main thing about foriegn travel is try to not look obviously like a tourst. When in Rome and all that....

[titanium_hiker]

you are safer from the scam-guys and pickpockets if you don't look like a tourist- I'm currently living overseas- lived here more of my life than my passport country, and my sister and I enjoy the game of tourist spotting downtown- "TOURIST!" boots- zipoffpants or shorts, tshirt, sunglasses, guidebook, glazed look, sunburn, but most of all- Large backpack.

titanium

[Whistler]

"TOURIST!"... most of all- Large backpack.Yeah, I try to avoid carrying things at all costs. That's just the way I am. At home, I'm the guy with the really really thin nylon wallet, 2 keys total, and no cellphone. I hate lugging stuff around. I go for smallest, lightest, thinnest, subdued-est, etc. I actually stopped using a moneybelts and neckwallets for a while. Just put it in my front pocket, and learned to stroll with one hand in my pocket when I'm around lots of people. Worked for me...
-Mark

[ShelterLeopard]

Thread, I command you, AWAKE!

[maybe clem]

If you are American, you need to realize that no one likes you, no matter what country you go to.

I've been travelling and living abroad since 1983 and I've never experienced this, either.

[Captain_Slo]

Frieden--did you do Dingle?

[Buffalo Skipper]

I have not travelled abroad since the mid 80s, so anything I say is dated beyond recognition. As an example, I was there when the Mark was at its weakest (3.45 to the $). My world then was perfect, or so it seemed. I had my own car so I didn't have to backpack, but I did dayhike in the Alps (DE, O, CZ, and ITL). Paris was very anti-American then, but outside the city, we were welcomed warmly. Then again Parisians change their mind like an ultralight bound hiker changes his (or her) base weight.


Thread, I command you, AWAKE!

ShLep, only you could open a 5 year old thread so effectively and put a smile on everyones face at the same time. Thanks for warming my afternoon.

[Ladytrekker]

You know, the students bumming around europe etc. Would you do it? what kind of gear and clothing would you take? how what "ci's" of backpack?

thanks.

I can tell you about my son who at the age of 20 (is now 24) bought a plane ticket and spent 3 weeks hiking Spain. He stayed in hostels which he booked in advance found out they fill up quick so had to do a little pre planning if doing it during the summer. He did a lot of walking and rode the train alot from city to city. Then the next year he took his girlfriend and went for another 3 weeks and went to Spain, Paris and Italy. He eats mostly out of grocery stores says restaurants are too expensive and always stays at hostels.

He uses a mid size North Face backpack dresses casually did laundry at the hostels. He says the hostels in Europe are great. He and his GF had a private room in a hostel in Barcelona with a balcony over looking the city for $30.00. He met tons of people mostly Australians for some reason hiking Europe is huge to young Australians after high school.

Air flights between countries are really cheap he flew from Madrid to Paris for around $40.00 and then from Paris to Rome for about the same. He said he never once felt endangered or any uncomfortable situations.

[Ender]

Thread, I command you, AWAKE!

This made me laugh. :)

[ShelterLeopard]

Thanks Skipper and Ender :D

[Old Hiker]

Thread, I command you, AWAKE!


I had NO idea what you were talking about until I looked at the date before yours!

Good tips for the most part - usually (1997-2001) only the locals were wearing "American" type t-shirts, etc.

Learn "please", "thank-you" and "I'm sorry" in the local languages FIRST!!! Manners, manners, manners. if I tried their language, they would try to help a lot better with what I was trying to communicate, usually. Germany, Spain, Greece, Norway, England, Wales, Scotland, Ireland, Holland, Belgium, Poland, France, Italy, the Vatican, etc.

Smiles, smiles, smiles. Respect for the elderly - I would give a small bow towards the ladies that went over pretty well. Greetings to most everyone, in their language if possible. Hats off when talking with the ladies helped, too.

No ogling the nudity - get over the no clothes bit. You can really tell the Americans by the eyes bugging out! My friend wore dark sunglasses when on the nude beaches. You have to learn not to wince visibly or say "OW!!" when you see the 17 nipple rings. Male. Bigger biceps than your thighs!

No politics, no religion, no arguments, no "USA is the best". Don't start a sentence with "In the US, we....."

Most individuals were great, just like here. The French waiter who was intensely surly until I greeted him in French (Bon Jour), said Thank you (Merci beaucoup) and treated him like a human being, turned around completely and actually started speaking English. Probably because I was butchering the beautiful French language, but still. Got some great menu tips! The girl who got into a giggling fit when I tried to get a room for my wife and myself - I think I said a room for my pet dog and me. The Italian who threw in an extra bottle of asti when I praised it to the sky.

Smaller towns are friendlier, but that means more attempts at communication, which can be frustrating. I felt that the smaller towns had more to offer than the tourist traps. Showing an interest in their hometown really made a difference, sometimes. Gangelt Germany - hometown of Mercator. Aachen - tomb of Charlemagne. Millen - recently celebrated a 1000 year old church still standing, etc. etc. etc.

Leave no trace to the max! Follow the local customs as closely as possible, even when the locals don't!

Good grief - look at the ramble! Thanks to all the American taxpayers who allowed me a 3 year European vacation as my last tour in the military!

YMMV - HYOH

[sbhikes]

Here's a fun read.
http://www.tomthumb.org/?page_id=27

[dragoro]

I spent 6 months backpacking Europe bout 16 years ago. One of the best experiences I've ever had. Pickpockets are common in southern Europe but easy to protect yourself from. It's when you stop being cautious that ya become a victim. Highly recommend Firenze, Athena, Seville. Napoli is pretty boring but the launch point for Capri which is gorgeous. Cork is beautiful as well with a great night life.

I used a mountainsmith backpack and putit through hell and it took it all in grace, been a mountainsmith fan ever since then.

[fiddlehead]

I spent about 10 years travelling all over, including 3 times hitchhiking across Europe, hitchhiked across Australia, bought a car in Amsterdam and drove western Europe in 1999, etc, etc, etc.
Many things you learn hiking in America (the big 3) can do a lot to prepare you for this kind of travel.
First of all: Less is More I see huge packs being carried by these so called "backpackers' with another one in the front. What the hell do they have in there?
I take most of my hiking gear including a small tent and once even carried a Zip stove which came in VERY handy quite a few times.

But, i once met a man who had been on the road for almost 2 years. He had a toothbrush and a shawl. He was a very wise man.

I've slept in farmers fields in: Ireland, Belgium, Germany, Poland, and in the outback of Australia with my tent.
Trains in Europe are very expensive. Hooking up with people who have cars and want to share gas money is often very easy to find and much cheaper, and you can learn so much more and go where you want.
Train stations are places where crooks hang out.
Hitchhiking often finds you: free accommodation, free food, back roads, local history, even short-time girlfriends from time to time.

Lonely Planet books can be your friend but, I've found that they tend to put all the backpackers in the same places all the time and you miss out on the real local culture. I stopped using them except for the maps, history and language chapters.

I miss my travelling and would be on this bicycle trip in southern China right now if I didn't have a 5 year old. Heading on a road trip (driving though) in 2 days that will last 3 weeks. Can't wait.

[dragoro]

TH, you might want to ask the Moderators to move this whole thread to the "Other Trails" forum, as it is not about the AT and doesn't belong here. There is that whole other forum, where people might look for just such a topic, and wouldn't find it if it's here.

Rain Man

.

You realize that you look clueless when you try and tell people where they should post. When the mods want your input, I'm sure they will ask.

[KYLarry]

I spent a month backpacking around Ireland and Scotland. I used a Gregory Reality pack (about 4500 ci), which was a top-loader that also had a nice panel access. The Gregory generally resided at the hostels and I used a 'day pack' for exploring around the towns/cities.

I never had a problem leaving my pack at the hostels, as it was pretty safe everywhere I went... that being said, I always carried my passport and wallet on my person.

As far as clothes, I packed pretty comfortably. Generally, I wore stuff that I would wear around in the States. Funny thing is, despite the fact that I was in Ireland, I managed to forget to pack a rain coat. So that was an expensive lesson-learned. I also just used a down blanket that I bought at Target for sleeping. Most of the hostels I stayed at would issue you clean sheets when you checked in.

I don't buy the "you're hated because you're American" line either. I went on my trip alone and the Irish and Scottish were some of the most friendly people I have ever met. Within 15 minutes of arriving at a pub, I would have all kinds of new friends to share Guinness with.

[Pedaling Fool]

I don't buy the "you're hated because you're American" line either. I went on my trip alone and the Irish and Scottish were some of the most friendly people I have ever met.
That is typical media hype and other ignorant people just repeat it without knowing any better. I've never been to a country (been to a lot) that was anti-american, actually everyone wants to talk to Americans. You're like an attraction.

Within 15 minutes of arriving at a pub, I would have all kinds of new friends to share Guinness with.
Best beer ever:) Puts Bud to shame, don't know why anyone would want to own that factory of horse piss:D

[ShelterLeopard]

I think the anti- American thing is over-stated. The Americans who are disliked are the Americans who act exactly like the worst of the tourists (like the ones who stomp in wearing hawaiian shirts, trying to find something to be angry about and talking at the top of their lungs about how stupid local traditions are). I've always found that when I was polite and actually made an effort to follow local customs and speak the language I was treated very well.

[KYLarry]

I think the anti- American thing is over-stated

That is absolutely true. I was over there in that latter part of 2004, and if you can recall... the US didn't make a lot of international friends at that time. Still the people in Europe were amazing; not just the Irish either. I met up with a group of 4 Germans and ended up travelling with them for a week or two and hung out with an Israeli girl for a while as well.

By the way, everybody wanted to know if I had been to New York City, and California. Pretty funny.

[Mrs Baggins]

We've been all over western Europe, New Zealand, South America, Australia, and the UK and we have always been treated well. We've gone on our own and with tours. On tours we've been told by guides that my husband and I are "not like other Americans" - i.e. we're quiet, we don't boast and brag about anything, we dress plainly (lightweight travel clothes that are strictly wash/dry overnight/wear), and we are just very unassuming. We use different bags depending on the trip - sometimes our Eddie Bauer "weekender" backpacks, sometimes our Rick Steves "Back Door" bags, always a small day pack each. I don't carry a purse. I use a small dark colored camera bag that has lots of secure zipped pockets and a very tough, thick nylon shoulder strap. We NEVER take money belts or neck pouches. Talk about immediate "tourist" indicators - go to an ATM, and hoist your shirt to get to your waist belt, or lift a neck pouch out. My husband wears travel pants with front zippered pockets that are deep and that's where his wallet goes. On buses or in crowds I we keep our day packs to our fronts with a good tight clutch on them. Lots of locals carry day packs - but they don't carry money belts and neck pouches. Passports stay in deep zippered pockets in our day packs with a tiny lock on the zips. We buy currency thru our bank before we leave so that we don't get off the plane and head straight to an ATM or currency booth - another big "tourist" indicator. And we rent a mobile phone thru Verizon for international use. All of our friends/family can call us using my stateside # and it forwards the calls to the international phone free of charge to them, very small charge to us. Per minute rates for calls and text message fees are very reasonable. The phone ships to our house, we use it, come home, and ship it back. Couldn't be easier. We're headed to Italy, Greece, and Turkey next month.

[skinewmexico]

I couldn't have (as a student), because my parents wouldn't pay for it, and they would have changed the locks. Had to work anyway, so I could graduate debt free. Sounds fun though. Probably not as cool when old people do it.