Transitioning from a bag to a quilt?

[misterfloyd]

hello to all,

I have always camped, or hiked with a sleeping bag. I'm looking to save some weight and still be warm. I have a kelty down 0 bag that is great, and warm but it is heavy. I have used that for deep winter here in NC and it does very well. As mentioned it does weigh more, and my winter gear weighs more hence less miles.

I do not have a shoulder season bag, but I have looked at several. MArmot helium, Meteor, and pinnicle. Since my favorite time to hike is in the fall and spring, I want to deduce my size pack (atmos 65, it is the only one I have) and my general weight. I have heard many good things about quilts, stays warm, and is light, and compressible. So this sounds good to me.

I understand the concept of a quilt from watching you tube videos.

I'm looking for a quilt that can handle 20 degrees. I have a BA insulated aircore, and a montbell 800 hooded down jacket. I want something that can handle the seasons that I mentioned in GA-NC, Ten, and VA.

How many of you have transitioned from a bag to a quilt. I'm a side sleeper, and I move around a bit? Can you recommend a brand?

Any information is welcome and greatly appreciated.

Best,
floyd.

[kayak karl]

i have this one (http://www.jacksrbetter.com/shop/high-sierra-sniveller/). been in single digits on the ground. i don't own a down jacket. never found a need.

[Odd Man Out]

I too am a side sleeper using a tent. Just started using a quilt and was very pleased. I think the are great for those of us who toss and turn. I have a Underground quilt (http://www.undergroundquilts.com/20tq/default.html). Mine is only rated to 40 deg, but I got it for summer use mostly. Did use it in the back yard when it was down in 40's to test it out and I was fine. They have a full quilts rated to 20 deg, plus lots of other options. They are custom made so you get it just the way you like it.

[Shonryu]

I'm a cold side sleeper so I use a 30 degree quilt for 3 season and a 0 degree with overfill for winter. I've been using Hammock Gear for years and hamds down Adam and Stormcrow make excellent TQs. The Jacks from Jacks R Better are awesome guys I live down the street from them. They make high quality products. My onky complaint is that they are a little on the heavy side that why I use HG.
A couple of things that are really important to know when transitioning is making sure your using a pad with a high enough R value based on your weather conditions. For 3 season I get by with a GG torso pad. For colder weather I use a Thermarest Xlite womens because it has a higher rvalue then a mens. Not to mentio. A little lighter. It doesnt cover my full legnth but it def works for me during colder seasons.

Make sure wherever you get it from you request loops to attach it to your pad being a side sleeper. That and you go with a wide. I learned the hard way with getting my first quilt. I went with a narrow top trying to cut weight. As a side sleeper that doesnt work because the quilt will lift up giving you drafts on your back.

Also make sure you invest in a decent balaclava for colder weather and pair it wirh a down hat. I use a balaclava with a Blackrock Down hat. I perfer module systems.

[Dogwood]

Based on you saying these things Misterfloyed I'd say slow down. You may not absolutely need to transition to a quilt to achieve your goals!

"I'm looking to save some weight and still be warm. I have a kelty down 0 bag that is great, and warm but it is heavy... As mentioned it does weigh more, and my winter gear weighs more hence less miles.

I do not have a shoulder season bag, but I have looked at several. MArmot helium, Meteor, and pinnicle. Since my favorite time to hike is in the fall and spring, I want to deduce my size pack (atmos 65, it is the only one I have) and my general weight..."

With those goals in mind and your current Kelty 0* down bag being too heavy and voluminous you can DEFINITELY do better, way better, in both those categories with other down bag options. It's that simple. Let's suppose you have either the regular length Kelty 0* Cosmic Down(3 lbs 12 oz, 9"x17" stuffed size, 550 dpown) or Kelty Ignite 0* Down(3 lbs 9 oz, 9"X 16" stuffed size, 600 Dridown). A Montbell 0* Super Spiral Hugger(2 lbs 13 oz, 800 fill down, 8"X15.6" stuffed size) saves you 12 oz or 3/4 lb off the Kelty Ignite and is about 15% less volume. This Montbell bag is 15 oz less and almost 20% less volume than the Kelty Cosmic down. A Marmot 0* Lithium(2 lbs 13 oz, 7.5"x 16" stuffed size, 850 down) sabves you much the same in wt and volume. And, if you really want to go lighter than that there are several nice UL options in the 0* down sleeping bag category that save even more wt and volume but $$$ comes into play.

My point is, for you wanting to downsize and down volume your current Kelty 0* down bag, assuming you have one of the two models I mentioned above, you can do so while still employing a sleeping bag!

"How many of you have transitioned from a bag to a quilt. I'm a side sleeper, and I move around a bit?"

I have. I too am a side sleeper tossing from side to side all night but I prefer to only employ quilts for temps regularly above about 30* or when using a hammock set up. With the way I sleep I find I get drafts using a quilt and that's not acceptable to me in temps below around 30* and also since I cowboy camp or sleep under a tarp often(ie; not in an enclosed tent). I want a decent nights sleep and using a quilt for me in colder temps, like you too say you are possibly considering using a quilt, I don't get that.

[Dogwood]

I'm a cold side sleeper so I use a 30 degree quilt for 3 season and a 0 degree with overfill for winter.... A couple of things that are really important to know when transitioning is making sure your using a pad with a high enough R value based on your weather conditions. For 3 season I get by with a GG torso pad. For colder weather I use a Thermarest Xlite womens because it has a higher rvalue then a mens. Not to mentio. A little lighter. It doesnt cover my full legnth but it def works for me during colder seasons.

Make sure wherever you get it from you request loops to attach it to your pad being a side sleeper. That and you go with a wide. I learned the hard way with getting my first quilt. I went with a narrow top trying to cut weight. As a side sleeper that doesnt work because the quilt will lift up giving you drafts on your back.

Also make sure you invest in a decent balaclava for colder weather and pair it wirh a down hat. I use a balaclava with a Blackrock Down hat. I perfer module systems.

Good pts Shonryu. However, going with the wider quilt w/ loops and heavier higher R Value pad the sleep system wt creeps up and, although this has worked for me too taking into consideration your pts, NOW the wt savings isn't all that much(in some cases its more wt) than the lightest wt UL conventional sleeping bags on the market. It becomes, based on what I know, a very fine wt savings sleep comfort balance that's not always clear cut in favor of a quilt.

[Rocket Jones]

My first quilt was the Jardine kit, and I like the way he handles the draft problem. There's a 6" wide (approx.) "ribbon" of un-insulated material sewed all around the outside of the quilt - other than the footbox. This allows you to grab the edge and tuck it under you a little bit and prevents a lot of the drafts that happen when you roll from side to side.

[misterfloyd]

Hello and thank you all for your comments

Are there any that have tried to use a quilt and went back to using a sleeping bag?

I guess it is a matter of teaching an old dog new tricks and by looking at the videos and such, I just get nervous looking at quilts in cold weather.

I don't mind saving, and am doing so at the present for a quality high down bag. I have tried flee bay and tried buying used but I'm always late.

In the summer I have a marmot 40 degree aspen bag that I unzip all the way when I need to and use as a quilt. But you can get away with murder in the summer. I just want to reduce weight, save space in pack, and stay warm, with no drafts in late fall early spring weather.

I just thought I would put it to others as to what they do. I really would like to hear more opinions on this. They are greatly appreciated and very welcome.

Thank you all!!
Floyd

[misterfloyd]

BTW

I'm familiar with most good down bag companies, are there any cottage industries that I don't know of that makes them. I am familiar with Western mountaineering and Fine feathered. But are there others. could you please list some if any.

Thank you,
Floyd

[MuddyWaters]

If you want a quilt that can REALLY handle 20degrees, you want a 0-10F quilt, wide enough to tuck under you. Quilts are NOT as warm as bags due to drafts. If the footbox opens they can have an extended comfort range, if ti doesnt, you might as well drape a sleeping bag over you for the same effect. In those temps you will need a down hood too. Actual weight savings end up being minimal, and is almost completely due to the use of lighter fabric in the quilt.

[Odd Man Out]

BTW

I'm familiar with most good down bag companies, are there any cottage industries that I don't know of that makes them. I am familiar with Western mountaineering and Fine feathered. But are there others. could you please list some if any.

Thank you,
Floyd

Zpacks makes a UL sleeping bag that is designed to be sort of a bag/quilt hybrid. Haven't used it so I can't comment further on its quality/effectiveness, but given ZPacks reputation, I would feel confident.

[Shonryu]

I'm not going to say I'm an expert on sleeping bags or quilts but I can say I've done a lot of research, spent a lot of money, and above all field tested my gear numerous times to know what system works best for me. Everyone is differnt so use discretion when reading what I'm about to say along with your own research and judgment.

First off with most comercial bags they come with a rating system and usually higher rating bags will come with a Europen rating. The temp of the bag reflects the lowest you can go and survive. Key word here is survive. Not comfort. Cottage shops work on a differnt scale. They measure based on gear that has been field tested and IMO are offten times truer to the actual ratings. Not to mention they will often put in a little more down to make sure those comfort ratings are pretty accurate and you can even request that they add more. I can honestly say my Hammock Gear TQ is true to its rating for comfort vs survivability. I cant say that about any of my high end comercial sleeping bags.

As far as weight and benefits of a quilt. My 30 degree TQ from Hammock Gear wide weights 15.8oz in the stuff sack. O also have the long I'm 6'1. My Marmot Plasma weights 24oz. 8 ounces more or about half a pound at almost twice thw cost. My quilt is warmer hands down. So for less weight I have more warmth. I use a frameless pack so I carry a GG toroso pad 4.6oz for 3 season. Even if I had a sleeping bag I would still have the pad to give me some comfort, structure my pack, and it can be used as a sit pad. So I am carrying the same weight. I also always carry a blackrock down hat 0.7oz to wear or sleep in. I also always carry a balaclava 1.1oz. Hat and balaclava serve multi purpose while a mummy hood only serves one. I get cold easy. So even in carrying these extra things my weight has not increased.

For winter I carry a HG 0 degree TQ with an extra 2 ounces of down. I've used it in the teens with no problems. It weights 24.8oz while my Marmot Plasma 0 weights 35oz which is still a 9oz increase. I also use a Thermarest xlite womens for the 3.5 rvalue which weights 10oz in a cuban fiber stuff sack. Even if I had my mummy bag I will still take the pad for comfort but more importantly the Rvalue to keep me warm. Sleeping bags lose loft when you are sleeping on top of them which provides no insulation under you so for lower temps you still need a pad. I'm still going to carry a balaclava and a hat which I use to sleep in vs a hood from a mummy bag so I've gained no weight again for multi use items. I perfer module systems that can serve multiple purposes. Its one of the easiest ways to lighten your pack.

Other things to consider.

1. Do you use a tent, tarp sleepin in shelters, or hammock? Tents will hold heat in vs a tarp. Tarp rule applies with a shelter. Your not enclosed. Tarps depending on configuration since most are not fully enclosed heat will escape and you can get drafts from wind.


2. Do you carry hats and balaclavas already? If so the hood really serves no purpose on a mummy bag and is just extra weight.

3. Quilts are great for venting in higher temps. Just unsnap them and use it like a blanket. Great for summer.

4. Do you use a hammock. I sleep In shelters, use hammocks, tarps, bivys, and tents. A TQ is more comfortable when I'm hanging vs a traditional sleeping bag and easier to get in and out of. If you use a mummy bag as a TQ you will get serious drafts while carrying the extra weight.

5. I consider a Marmot Plasma one of the top of the line bags on the market for UL options but my TQs weight less at a fraction of the cost of the bag. In other words I paid less then for my plasmas, got a piece of gear that is customed to fit my needs, is lighter, and warmer based on its rating system. As a UL and SUL backpacker these are important factors for me.

So in summary you can spend a lot of money to get an UL sleeping bag but depending on your configuration more than likely it will still come out weighting more.

There are drawbacks to quilts.

1. Are drafts if its not wide enough for you.

2. In extreme temps where its cold if the foot box is not sewen through you will get a draft but I fix that by stuffing my clothes bag at the bottom to block the small hole after I've tighten it up.

3. Your back will get cold without the proper support of pads rated at appropriate Rvalues based on the temps you are in. Once you figure out how to make this all work there is no issue.

I've gotten used to how I need to do things to make things work for me just like I had to get used to packing a framelss pack when I teransitioned to them. It becomes second nature.

I personally use a Zpacks Hexamid Plus for my shelter with a Borah bivy. Total set up is under 1lbs. If the bugs are out and I wanna use my hexamid I have bug protection and can unsnap my TQ to vent and not worry about my quilt sliding off. If I'm in a shelter which I perfer to sleep in it helps to retain heat, cut some wind, and keep my quilt in place and adds as another barrier to my TQ. Personally since I transitioned to using TQs it was a learning curve. Now that I've dialed everything in I wouldnt go back to a mummy bag. Keep in mind the 8oz weight savings is based on comparing a preium UL sleeping bag. Other bags will weight even more saving you even more weight.

Like I said this is my prefrence it doesnt make it right. In the end all that matters is what works for you and keeps you comfortable at a weight you are willing to carry. I'm a gram counter so I try to cut weight in any way that I can. Focusong on your big 3 is one of the first steps.

[Dogwood]

Shonyru, how regularly do you take your quilts 10* or more below their specked out temp rating? I find that definitely more problematic in temps below freezing with a quilt system without the wt creeping up than the best/lightest wt UL down sleeping bag sleep system. For example, you said "a couple of things that are really important to know when transitioning(to quilts) is making sure your using a pad with a high enough R value based on your weather conditions. I suppose you are alluding to using a higher R value pad/insulation under you when using a quilt in the in the winter temps MisterFloyd was referring to, hence likely a HEAVIER wt pad/added insulation verses a lighter wt pad/insulation under you using a sleeping bag. Although, I keep hearing that sleeping bag insulation under you has no insulating value that isn't totally the case; it's more accurate to state it has significantly less insulating capacity especially when crushing down insulation. From what I've seen IMO, that's where the hood plays dividends combined with a merino beanie - in cold temps since in the head/neck area is where we lose a significant amount of heat. This is why I opt for quilts in the warmer weather under my scenarios. I'm not as concerned about heat loss. I'm seeking NOT just a wt savings but, as I said, a wt savings sleep comfort balance Thanks for your detailed response. I appreciate you sharing.

[biggcarl]

I use TQs from undergroundquilts.com in my hammock. However, they are set up to use with a pad if need be.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.342938169191212.1073741848.141871842631180&type=1

[Rain Man]

I too am a side sleeper using a tent. Just started using a quilt and was very pleased. I think the are great for those of us who toss and turn. I have a Underground quilt (http://www.undergroundquilts.com/20tq/default.html). ..

I also switched from a bag to a "Flight Jacket," down-filled, rated to 20 degrees, and sized for me. I primarily use a hammock now, but still do "cowboy camp" from time to time.

I will say that in theory a bag might keep more critters out, if that's a concern. Has never really bothered me, though. A bad thing about a bag is that when you roll over, the bag tends to go with you. Instantly, you've lost up to half your insulation, as the bottom of the bag has very little down, compared to the top (which is no longer on top).

Thus, while the comments about TQ drafts have some merit, they have to be balanced against the "cold butt syndrome" that most bags give us tossing-and-turning side sleepers.

When in my hammock, I also use an under quilt.

As in most things, it's a balancing act with pros and cons. You just have to decide for yourself.

I'll add that the folks at Underground Quilts were fantastic about speaking with me by phone and answering my questions patiently, plus they were able to build my quilt and get it to me quickly in time for a trip.

Rain:sunMan

.

[misterfloyd]

Thank you for all of your help and opinions, they are greatly appreciated.

I use either a skytrekker, or a LH sol long 6. I have used the skytrekker in the winter, without a snowload. I forsee that I will let go of one and move to a tarp, not for deep winter though.

It seems like most of you are hammock guys. I do have an inflateable that is R4.7, I do use that with a closed cell in winter. I just need to do more research.

I can move to a tarp, but a quilt....... well I need to do more thinkin' :)

I will contact some of these companies you have mentioned as well.

Best,
Floyd

[garlic08]

I recently switched to quilt for three season use. The 6' quilt I got is long enough for me (5-10) to pull over my head (so I don't need an extra hat), has a zipped foot box, draw strings top and bottom, and loop ties above the zipper. The only real difference between the quilt and a sleeping bag is the weight and bulk of the zipper and hood and about $100. And it's more flexible when it warms up, and stays a lot cleaner.

But I recently replaced my old winter bag with another bag. I'm also reluctant to use a quilt in winter.

[Halloween]

I used my sleeping bag as a quilt for several trips to ensure that it was the right move for me. I bought a Katabatic quilt and have never looked back. As a side sleeper the quilt is more comfortable. Katabatic has a clip system for sleeping pads that keeps the quilt wrapped in colder weather.

[Odd Man Out]

I just have a 40 deg quilt and an uninsulated Neoair Trekker pad for summer camping. But now you all have me wanting to do more camp outs this fall in the back yard to test the lower limits of this system (with the 150 wt merino base layer).

[Rocket Jones]

That's pretty much what I did. I slept out in the backyard several times during the winter and determined that I could survive down to mid-teens with my 40* quilt and a closed cell foam pad atop my Trekker. Wearing everything, I wasn't comfortable and slept little that night, but I could survive. I -was- comfortable enough to get some sleep down to just below freezing.

Nothing beats practical experience.

[Odd Man Out]

That's pretty much what I did. I slept out in the backyard several times during the winter and determined that I could survive down to mid-teens with my 40* quilt and a closed cell foam pad atop my Trekker. Wearing everything, I wasn't comfortable and slept little that night, but I could survive. I -was- comfortable enough to get some sleep down to just below freezing.

Nothing beats practical experience.

Thanks for the data. We have pretty similar systems. People always say they "sleep cold" or "sleep warm". I have no clue how I "sleep". My Trekker is the torso length/wide version. I also have a torso length CCF pad. I can use that under my legs, or put the pad under the Trekker and use my empty pack under my legs. Still trying to tweek the system. Considering getting a Klymit Static V2. I hear they are very comfy.

[~Sz]

I love my JRB quilt. Instead of looping around my sleeping pad, I attach a piece of paracord underneath me. I am a side sleeper. When I turn, I just tug on the string to snug up the quilt to my back. No drafts. I've been sleeping at elevation, high 30s/ low 40s, I think my model is rated to 20.

[~Sz]

(Edit to add: I think I have the Shenandoah quilt with extra fill.)