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jefals
08-25-2014, 06:41
I haven't done the math, but is it true that you have to be able to do a lot of consistent 20 mile days in order to make it from Springer to Katahdin between March and October? If it is, I ain't ready! :(

Lone Wolf
08-25-2014, 07:05
no. not true.

SteelCut
08-25-2014, 07:06
I think that Warren Doyle has a good breakdown of miles per day required to achieve a thru hike in a certain amount of time.

http://www.warrendoyle.com/ATBook.html

Old Hiker
08-25-2014, 08:05
I haven't done the math, but is it true that you have to be able to do a lot of consistent 20 mile days in order to make it from Springer to Katahdin between March and October? If it is, I ain't ready! :(

I suggest that you do the math. :)

Figure 210 days (214 actual) hiking if you are talking 01 March through 30 September. 2185 miles ( +/- ). Divide. 10.4 miles per day. IF you don't take zeros/neroes. Not likely.

20 miles per day is 3.6 months: 105 days. Very doable if you have initiative.

Enjoy your hike !

kayak karl
08-25-2014, 08:52
slow and steady wins the walk. you may do 6 mile day in the beginning, but when you do your first 20 mile day you won't believe it. you will check the map 3 times just to be sure :)

Gambit McCrae
08-25-2014, 09:06
I suggest that you do the math. :)

Figure 210 days (214 actual) hiking if you are talking 01 March through 30 September. 2185 miles ( +/- ). Divide. 10.4 miles per day. IF you don't take zeros/neroes. Not likely.

20 miles per day is 3.6 months: 105 days. Very doable if you have initiative.

Enjoy your hike !


slow and steady wins the walk. you may do 6 mile day in the beginning, but when you do your first 20 mile day you won't believe it. you will check the map 3 times just to be sure :)

+1 on both of these. I started out(section hiking and driving to the AT every weekend) with 6-10 miles days. Now after almost a year, If I dont pull 16-20 with a backpack on I know I fell short of what I am capable of.
That being said, hiking every day apposed to hiking 3, off 5 then hiking 3 again, is when hiking everyday you have little to no time to recover, hence zero days. Its an equal balance, if you push bigger miles, you will have to take more zeros to recover, if you walk it in shorter days, it will take longer, yet you wont have to take as many zero days. The hand off for me is, i would rather push bigger miles, and get my town time in as I enjoy a good beer and burger. But at the same time im not in a rush to make it to ME either. HYOH

Tianto
08-25-2014, 09:51
Short answer is no however, a great place to glean data on this subject is on trail journals dot com. There you can click through hikers posts and see their daily milage fluctuations and get a good idea on their average. Many hikers post daily, giving you the opportunity to passively observe what it took them to complete the trail, thereby avoiding the message board ego-maniacs opinion/I gotta have a thousand posts on the forum. This is what I did before my thru, finding it extremely insightful and much less bias than what you'll find here.

Nooga
08-25-2014, 09:59
slow and steady wins the walk. you may do 6 mile day in the beginning, but when you do your first 20 mile day you won't believe it. you will check the map 3 times just to be sure :)

Agree. Take it easy until Damascus to allow your body to adjust, then up your daily mileage. Never heard anyone who complained about taking too long.

Old Hiker
08-25-2014, 10:02
I agree with Kayak Karl - I forgot to add that my first 2-3 weeks of my attempt averaged from 8 - 14 per day. I WAS carrying too much gear. 1st day over 12 was after Video and a couple of other guys in the Smokies challenged me to do better. I think my best day was 18ish.

Slow and steady at first, but it WAS picking up before I had to quit.

rocketsocks
08-25-2014, 10:02
My math says 15's will get ya there in plenty on time between those dates.

88BlueGT
08-25-2014, 10:17
Can I ask what a "leftover" menu is?

Wülfgang
08-25-2014, 10:51
Distance = Rate x Time

Where Distance is in Miles, Rate is in Miles per hour per day, and Time is in days.

So, for 2180 Miles, if you hiked at an average rate of 2.5 mph for 8 HIKING hours per day (figure 2-3 hours for breaks and camp chores), you would be traveling an average of 20 miles per day and arrive at Katahdin in 109 days, if you took no zeroes.

Figure in 12-15 zeroes (approx 1 per week) and that would put you at 121-124 days, or just over 4 months.

jefals
08-25-2014, 11:13
Great advice and info from everyone; thanks a lot. Old Hiker advised me to do the math, but looks like I got an "old hiker" to do the math for me! :) Thanks O.H.
I did a 16.8 mile "hike" around a lake Sunday with about 8 or 9 pounds in my backpack (a gallon canteen of water). Except for the fact that it was 16.8 miles, it was easy walking ... no hills, bright sunny day, cool for most of the 1st half. My legs were pretty heavy at the finish, and I was sure glad I didn't have to do it again the next day!
On my AT hike, I do want to enjoy zero days and the towns along the way; but I do know you have to get to the end by mid-OCT at the latest, and while I'd like to make it all the way, I'm not sure I will -- I think the adventure along the way -- meeting some of you folks maybe and others along the way, experience the trail magic etc. -- whether I make it all the way or not, I know it's gonna be a great time!

Gambit McCrae
08-25-2014, 11:19
Short answer is no however, a great place to glean data on this subject is on trail journals dot com. There you can click through hikers posts and see their daily milage fluctuations and get a good idea on their average. Many hikers post daily, giving you the opportunity to passively observe what it took them to complete the trail, thereby avoiding the message board ego-maniacs opinion/I gotta have a thousand posts on the forum. This is what I did before my thru, finding it extremely insightful and much less bias than what you'll find here.


:welcome Welcome to the WhiteBlaze Network!

The WhiteBlaze Network was created by a community of Appalachian Trail enthusiasts. Its intended purpose is to provide a forum for free exchange of ideas about the Appalachian Trail including its history, supporting the trail, hiking the trail, and general issues important to those that enjoy the Appalachian Trail.

This site is not about any one person or their idea of what the Appalachian Trail should be or to dictate to you (the hiker) how the trail is supposed to be used. We leave that for you to decide. Interact with the other members to get a better idea of what others on the trail are thinking and maybe you will get a better idea of what it is all about.

If you have any questions, don't look for an administrator with all the answers, even about how to run this site. Instead, come in and ask the members. Become a member, and you are equally as important as the rest of us.

So come on in and enjoy yourself!

Is this not what the site was created for? To gather opinions from other hikers? :datz

rocketsocks
08-25-2014, 11:36
Short answer is no however, a great place to glean data on this subject is on trail journals dot com. There you can click through hikers posts and see their daily milage fluctuations and get a good idea on their average. Many hikers post daily, giving you the opportunity to passively observe what it took them to complete the trail, thereby avoiding the message board ego-maniacs opinion/I gotta have a thousand posts on the forum. This is what I did before my thru, finding it extremely insightful and much less bias than what you'll find here.I gotta disagree there. While TJ's is a great resource in it's own right, it does not have near the the skinny or biased information many come here to find. And boards are what people make them, offering opinion without addressing the original posters question is just that...opinion.

Wülfgang
08-25-2014, 14:15
I frequent some other forums and WB is not, in my opinion, a discussion forum. It's a "let me give you my unsolicited, unrelated, and often unqualified opinion" forum. There is a lot of great info here but you have to dig for it though searches. TJ has more straightforward facts and reports from active hikers. Lots of armchair hikers here.

Odd Man Out
08-25-2014, 14:45
Also consult this article on hiking rates by section right here on WB. The most relevant table is this one. You indeed see that hikers tend to kick it up a notch after Damascus, but never anywhere close to 20 miles per day. Note that MPHD is mile per hiking day, which doesn't average in the zero mile days.

MPD ~~~~~~~ MPHD ~~~~~~ SECTION
9.4 miles..........(10.1 miles).........Springer to Georgia Border (75.6 miles)
11.2 miles........(12.0 miles).........Georgia Border to Fontana (87.5 miles)
12.2 miles........(14.0 miles).........Fontana to Damascus (297.1 miles)
13.4 miles........(15.9 miles).........Damascus to Waynesboro (388.6 miles)
14.4 miles........(16.8 miles).........Waynesboro to Harpers Ferry (161.1 miles)
13.9 miles........(16.8 miles).........Harpers Ferry to DWG (270.3 miles)
13.9 miles........(16.1 miles).........DWG to Kent (172.4 miles)
14.0 miles........(15.5 miles).........Kent to Glencliff (323.8 miles)
10.5 miles........(11.4 miles).........Glencliff to Gorham (100.6 miles)
11.1 miles........(12.5 miles).........Gorham to Stratton (110.1 miles)
13.6 miles........(14.7 miles).........Stratton to Katahdin (187.9 miles)
12.9 miles........(14.7 miles).........The entire AT (2175.0 miles)

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/content.php?44
(http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/content.php?44)

Starchild
08-25-2014, 16:45
Don't forget when you get your trail legs your mileage will increase, as well as your appetite (thank God for trail angels, trail magic and a thru hikers favorite bear 'Yogi' as that increase happened to me just as I left town and a long distance to resupply, now requiring 2x the food). It takes about 3-4 weeks of hiking, then, WOW it is a super human experience. My miles per day (excluding zeros and neros - as that was trail town induced) went from averaging 17 per day to 25 per day.

garlic08
08-25-2014, 17:26
Twenty mpd is needed after you graduate from the AT and go on to hike the PCT and/or the CDT (longer trails, shorter season, harder resupply/water sources).

I would caution anyone against trying to make 20 mpd out of the gate on the AT. That's tough going (unless you really know what you're doing and then you wouldn't be asking). I think by central VA many hikers are doing it, though.

Dogwood
08-25-2014, 17:47
Great advice and info from everyone; thanks a lot. Old Hiker advised me to do the math, but looks like I got an "old hiker" to do the math for me! :) Thanks O.H.
I did a 16.8 mile "hike" around a lake Sunday with about 8 or 9 pounds in my backpack (a gallon canteen of water). Except for the fact that it was 16.8 miles, it was easy walking ... no hills, bright sunny day, cool for most of the 1st half. My legs were pretty heavy at the finish, and I was sure glad I didn't have to do it again the next day!
On my AT hike, I do want to enjoy zero days and the towns along the way; but I do know you have to get to the end by mid-OCT at the latest, and while I'd like to make it all the way, I'm not sure I will -- I think the adventure along the way -- meeting some of you folks maybe and others along the way, experience the trail magic etc. -- whether I make it all the way or not, I know it's gonna be a great time!

DO NOT GET STRESSED! You're relating a six month AT thru-hiking time frame. Like Starchild said you'll likely build on your ability to crank out more mileage the further you get into your hike. That's what the majority of AT thru-hikers who finish do. Long distance hiking is an affair requiring adaption and mangagement of your hike, your body, your mind, emotions, etc. Allow yourself to evolve as a hiker. It doesn't all happen in one day or pre-hike for many successful AT thru-hiking finishers. Lose the beat the clock mentality. It sounds like you'll have a better hike if you do. Adapt as you need en route.

jefals
08-25-2014, 19:33
Also consult this article on hiking rates by section right here on WB. The most relevant table is this one. You indeed see that hikers tend to kick it up a notch after Damascus, but never anywhere close to 20 miles per day. Note that MPHD is mile per hiking day, which doesn't average in the zero mile days.

MPD ~~~~~~~ MPHD ~~~~~~ SECTION
9.4 miles..........(10.1 miles).........Springer to Georgia Border (75.6 miles)
11.2 miles........(12.0 miles).........Georgia Border to Fontana (87.5 miles)
12.2 miles........(14.0 miles).........Fontana to Damascus (297.1 miles)
13.4 miles........(15.9 miles).........Damascus to Waynesboro (388.6 miles)
14.4 miles........(16.8 miles).........Waynesboro to Harpers Ferry (161.1 miles)
13.9 miles........(16.8 miles).........Harpers Ferry to DWG (270.3 miles)
13.9 miles........(16.1 miles).........DWG to Kent (172.4 miles)
14.0 miles........(15.5 miles).........Kent to Glencliff (323.8 miles)
10.5 miles........(11.4 miles).........Glencliff to Gorham (100.6 miles)
11.1 miles........(12.5 miles).........Gorham to Stratton (110.1 miles)
13.6 miles........(14.7 miles).........Stratton to Katahdin (187.9 miles)
12.9 miles........(14.7 miles).........The entire AT (2175.0 miles)

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/content.php?44
(http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/content.php?44)


wow, I had no idea there was a breakdown like this. Thanks much!

jefals
08-25-2014, 19:37
Twenty mpd is needed after you graduate from the AT and go on to hike the PCT and/or the CDT (longer trails, shorter season, harder resupply/water sources).


I'm not sure I'm interested in thru-hiking either of those, altho I'd like to do some hiking in the Sierras, which is in my back yard. But I'm scared enough of those cute little black bears on the AT -- and I think the ones out here are supposed to be a lot meaner! :)
I AM kinda thinking about that European trek -- Camino de Santiago? That one sounds to me like another great adventure!

jefals
08-25-2014, 19:42
Don't forget when you get your trail legs your mileage will increase, as well as your appetite (thank God for trail angels, trail magic and a thru hikers favorite bear 'Yogi' as that increase happened to me just as I left town and a long distance to resupply, now requiring 2x the food). It takes about 3-4 weeks of hiking, then, WOW it is a super human experience. My miles per day (excluding zeros and neros - as that was trail town induced) went from averaging 17 per day to 25 per day.

Hard for me to imagine 17 to 25/days, Starchild. If you read my post about how worn out I was last weekend after that 17 mile walk around the lake -- no real climbing, great weather, and carrying less than 10 lbs on my back. I have a feeling 3 miles, climbing those mountains in cold, wet clothes, carrying 30 pounds will probably feel like 25 miles!

MuddyWaters
08-25-2014, 19:52
Id guess if you are doing consistent 15s by around damascus, you will be OK. but i havent done the math.

Bronk
08-26-2014, 11:40
Start out fat and completely out of shape...within 3 to 6 weeks the weight will start coming off and you will get in shape. By the time you get the first 500 miles under your belt you should be able to get 12 miles in before noon. After that point its just a matter of how much walking you want to do every day and how tough the terrain is and how much time you spend in towns.

Mags
08-26-2014, 11:50
Start out fat and completely out of shape...within 3 to 6 weeks the weight will start coming off and you will get in shape.

if you are fat and out of shape, a lot harder to get to to that magical 3-6 wk/ 500 mile mark. :)

If I invest time, money and put my life in hold for a dream I'd make sure I have a basic baseline of fitness before attempting a 2185 mile long hike.

When 75% of people do not finish their AT thru-hike attempts, is the advice above really good?

We hear from people on this site who finish who started "fat and completely out of shape"; the majority of people who DON'T finish tend to not come back to this site.

We discuss endlessly how to shave 3 oz off a titanium widget. Some weekend hikes and some simple walks around the neighborhood would probably help more to get ready for an AT hike. ;)

ChuckT
08-26-2014, 12:24
I always carry too much gear. OCD lives!

jefals
08-26-2014, 12:49
if you are fat and out of shape, a lot harder to get to to that magical 3-6 wk/ 500 mile mark. :)

If I invest time, money and put my life in hold for a dream I'd make sure I have a basic baseline of fitness before attempting a 2185 mile long hike.

When 75% of people do not finish their AT thru-hike attempts, is the advice above really good?

We hear from people on this site who finish who started "fat and completely out of shape"; the majority of people who DON'T finish tend to not come back to this site.

We discuss endlessly how to shave 3 oz off a titanium widget. Some weekend hikes and some simple walks around the neighborhood would probably help more to get ready for an AT hike. ;)

I don't know, somehow it's hard for me to reconcile the mindset of a person that ...a) likes to be fat and out of shape, and b) wants to do something like hike the A.T. :) But, then again, people are complicated creatures!

Old Hiker
08-26-2014, 13:07
I always carry too much gear. OCD lives!

As my OCD kids in class remind me: it's NOT OCD. It's CDO. Has to be alphabetical.

As for mileage - I always told my FL Scouts, 5 miles in flat FL is about 1 mile in the GA/NC mts. That first day on the Trail over 10 is special, as is the first 15, etc. I was VERY depressed at my lack of miles the first few weeks, but it picked up.

Pedaling Fool
08-26-2014, 15:25
I don't know, somehow it's hard for me to reconcile the mindset of a person that ...a) likes to be fat and out of shape...I believe people that don't workout/exercise actually believe that exercise (including hiking) is just as strenuous and agonizing everytime you participate in whatever the activity is. They're wrong. Exercise is somewhat addictive and is actually a pleasant feeling once the body is conditioned (even when you're hitting the red zone, assuming you're conditioned to it).

However, the downside is that depending on the person and the activity, it can take some time to condition yourself to the point where you feel this blissful feeling from exercise.

jefals
08-26-2014, 16:46
As my OCD kids in class remind me: it's NOT OCD. It's CDO. Has to be alphabetical.

As for mileage - I always told my FL Scouts, 5 miles in flat FL is about 1 mile in the GA/NC mts. That first day on the Trail over 10 is special, as is the first 15, etc. I was VERY depressed at my lack of miles the first few weeks, but it picked up.

Not sure where in FL you are, but if you're hiking 5 miles in Miami in August, that's gotta be like walking 20 miles somewhere! :)
I know you're right, Old Hiker --- I know it's gonna be a real thrill when I get that 1st 10 mile day! (btw, hate to show my ignorance (well, it won't be the 1st time...) what's "CDO"?

jefals
08-26-2014, 16:54
I believe people that don't workout/exercise actually believe that exercise (including hiking) is just as strenuous and agonizing everytime you participate in whatever the activity is. They're wrong. Exercise is somewhat addictive and is actually a pleasant feeling once the body is conditioned (even when you're hitting the red zone, assuming you're conditioned to it).

However, the downside is that depending on the person and the activity, it can take some time to condition yourself to the point where you feel this blissful feeling from exercise.

I agree. Part of the problem is folks that start to work out after years of a sedentary life-style, sometimes want to go to the gym, do a "Rocky Balboa" workout, and come home lookin buff! I always tell people you have the rest of your life, so just take it easy, start slow, do what you're comfortable with, and don't put any pressure on yourself to increase... In a couple of weeks, if you feel like it, kick it up a little bit; if not, wait another week. I think, when folks have that kind of a "no-pressure" mindset, then, when it's time to increase their reps or whatever, they find they can add more than they were planning to....

kayak karl
08-26-2014, 17:20
I don't know, somehow it's hard for me to reconcile the mindset of a person that ...a) likes to be fat and out of shape, and b) wants to do something like hike the A.T. :) But, then again, people are complicated creatures!
i don't think people like to be fat and out of shape. many times it happens from depression and other problems. to top that off people look down on them. when they finally decide to make a change and do something about it like hike the AT they don't find much encouragement.

July
08-26-2014, 19:14
By the time you hit the Smokies, you should be feeling quite a bit stronger. Also depending on pace, it helps to start earlier in the morning to get the needed miles in. ie... dont lay in the bag till 9:00am when you can start at 6:00. Of course times can be mixed and matched and ultimately these things are all an individual choice. HYOH

MuddyWaters
08-26-2014, 19:22
We live in a country where there is no stigma to being fat anymore, its the norm. I think most people don't realize how poor shape they are really in. You can be fat and still be in good cardio shape, it will just still be harder to do things than if you weren't packing the extra weight.

jefals
08-26-2014, 20:34
i don't think people like to be fat and out of shape. many times it happens from depression and other problems. to top that off people look down on them. when they finally decide to make a change and do something about it like hike the AT they don't find much encouragement.

I agree with that. Depression is really serious, and I certainly am not able to talk seriously about it. Except to say, as it relates to being overweight, I bet it's like the chicken-and-egg example. I mean, you might be overweight because you're depressed, or, you might be depressed because you're overweight. (just my thinking...I could certainly be off-base about it, tho!). If you know someone suffering from depression, I would think it would be a really great thing if you could encourage them to seek professional help...

But, relating to being overweight and doing something like hiking the AT -- I think it's great that someone would want to do that, and the reasons for wanting to do can also be complicated. Some people want to savor the experience. Some people might want the challenge -- it might be an epic challenge that they know they won't find enjoyable at all, but they just want to test themselves...(Rocky vs Apollo?). IMHO, no matter the goal, your chance of success (whether success be having an enjoyable experience, or finally standing on Katahdin (or, ideally, both!) is going to increase if you are properly prepared before starting out...

jefals
08-26-2014, 20:37
By the time you hit the Smokies, you should be feeling quite a bit stronger. Also depending on pace, it helps to start earlier in the morning to get the needed miles in. ie... dont lay in the bag till 9:00am when you can start at 6:00. Of course times can be mixed and matched and ultimately these things are all an individual choice. HYOH
I hope I even make it to the Smokies! Well, we'll see.....