View Full Version : AT thru-hiker diversity stats?
1. Non-Hispanic Caucasian compared to other races?
2. Women compared to guys?
3. Under 40 compared to 40 and over?
jackiebolen
10-10-2005, 12:41
No official stats but in 2004, I can only remember seeing 1 or 2 non-white people in 1500 miles. Women to men...I'd say 1-5. Under 40 to over 40...no idea.
I suppose you mean 1 out of 5 or a ratio of 1 to 4 or 20% women?
I thought the women figures were going up?
I would say 30-40% of the journals are women?
I suppose you mean 1 out of 5 or a ratio of 1 to 4 or 20% women?
I thought the women figures were going up?I suppose you mean that previously the percentage of female hikers was equal to or greater than 20%?
II would say 30-40% of the journals are women?I haven't noticed either way, but I would not be suprised to learn that a greater percentage of women kept online journals compared to men.
I've seen only a few non white hikers. The rumor at trail days was that rockytop was going to change his name to "the black guy."
Women probably 20 percent.
As far as over 40/under 40 I think it changes with the months. Early and late in the year ratio probably close to 50-50. Summer brings more youth.
Yes, maybe more women journal than men, but it seems to me that 10 years ago women were about 20% of the thru-hikers. Isn't that a low figure for today?
D'Artagnan
10-10-2005, 14:05
Given that on 9/30/05 you opined that only 14 individuals had thru-hiked the trail this year, I would imagine you would be able to compile the "diversity stats" on your own.
icemanat95
10-10-2005, 14:13
Demographics are a bit of a pain in the hinnie. They can be manipulated to hell and gone to prove a point, but they really don't say much in and of themselves.
Someone with a severe chip on their shoulder can and would say that the absence of minorities on the AT demonstrates a racist tendancy amng hikers and among trail organizers. When you see the KKK around every tree, you assume that whitey is out to hold down people of color (whatever their ethnicity).
On the other hand you could turn around and see the statistics as evidence that Hispanic, African American and other ethnic cultures do not value non-urban lifestyles, thus do not consider backpacking for 2000 miles as a viable recreational alternative to backetball, baseball, football, and dancing.
The why's and wherefores are another issue.
None of it is as simple as anyone would have it be. Clearly there is a difference is social values involved, but is it selected or imposed? Is it from lack of exposure or a conscious decision not to pursue backcountry recreation? More likely it is a messy blend of many reasons including those above.
Hispanic and African-American cultures in the US are much more urbanized than caucasian culture. Why this is, I don't know. It may be tied to economics at some point in history or it might be a long standing cultural norm. All that said, I know a lot of white people who can't imagine spending 6 months in the woods and mountains with only one shower every week or so and a high likelihood of being soaking wet for days on end while you trudge through mud and running water up to your ankles.
It's not everyone's cup of tea, that's for certain.
jackiebolen
10-10-2005, 15:09
If you are a man you might not notice the low number of females out there because it's not such an issue for you.
But more often than not, I would be travelling with maybe 1 other girl in a pack of 5 or 6 or 8 guys. It was very, very rare than women outnumbered the men in a shelter or a hostel (I can only remember a few times).
I'm still sticking with my 20 %.
The AT has the most diverse collection of white, middle-class, college educated people anywhere. :)
Despite my flip reply, it really is a rather narrow demographic of people who hike these long trails.
Seems to be a certain ethnic group (Americans of mainly European descent),
certain economic group (people whose upbringing and/or current outlook is decidely middle class) and education level (college). Not too many non-Whites, non-college educated, non-middle class people out there. Wouldn't be surprised if the few non-whites are college educated and/or middle class.
Why that is so? Darn if I know. Like many people..good at making obserations. Not so good at telling why it is so. :)
SGT Rock
10-10-2005, 15:32
Won't it be a nice thing when race matters so little to Americans this sort of question seems odd in the first place.
Won't it be a nice thing when race matters so little to Americans this sort of question seems odd in the first place.
It may be a long time Rock unfortunantely... :(
A NPS survey with detailed demographics (with those for thru hikers broken out as a seperate catagory) can be found here:
http://www.nps.gov/appa/pphtml/documents.html
The PDF is the Use and Users survey.
rambunny
10-10-2005, 16:02
Exactly what i was thinking in 7,000 miles i saw hikers not groups, not men and women just the subculture called thruhikerus that migrates both north and south,with the same joys, and pain.
Cedar Tree
10-10-2005, 16:36
I saw only 1 black person hiking on my hike in 2000, a girl in her 20's with a huge pack struggling badly southbound in Maine. She was alone and going up a mountain, and I was going down. She was too tired to talk, or maybe she didn't want to talk.
CT
Won't it be a nice thing when race matters so little to Americans this sort of question seems odd in the first place.
Well, look who started the topic, not our own AT, but A troll with a capital T.
dje97001
10-10-2005, 16:44
Although it was already discussed: http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4178&highlight=Education
Related to diversity... I think it is interesting that so many hikers seem to either have graduate degrees and/or be involved in Education-related careers. Wondering if this is simply a result of teachers having summers off (and using their time to enjoy the mtns) or maybe a throw-back to the original hiking clubs of various colleges...
SGT Rock
10-10-2005, 16:52
A NPS survey with detailed demographics (with those for thru hikers broken out as a seperate catagory) can be found here:
http://www.nps.gov/appa/pphtml/documents.html
The PDF is the Use and Users survey.
That link didn't open for me.
dje97001
10-10-2005, 17:02
From that report... in 1999...
· The most common level of education for both thru hikers and non-thru hikers is a college graduate.
· The second most common level of education for non-thru hikers is a masters, doctoral or professional
degree (29.4%).
· The second most common level of education for thru hikers is business school, trade school, some
college (21.0%).
· Overall, non-thru hikers have more formal education than thru hikers, although both groups are highly
educated.
That link didn't open for me.
Take the mouse-- its the the thing with the cord next to the computer-- and move the little arrow thingy over the underlined words. Then push the the button on the mouse a few times, very fast.
dje97001
10-10-2005, 17:09
And again... from that report...
· The most common occupations of non-thru hikers were education/training (14.2%), management, business, financial (11.5%), or technical (16%) occupations.
· There is little apparent difference in the occupational patterns of the various types of hikers (14.1%).
· Day users reported the most management, business, financial occupations.
· Section hikers reported the most “art, design, entertainment and media” occupations (12.6%).
· Of the retired non-thru hikers education/training was the highest reported previous occupation
(27.6%).
· The most common former occupations of thru hikers were labor, management, and military (17%
each).
· Retired hikers of all types were previously employed in a wide range of occupations.
· Day hikers (41.7%) and section hikers (21.6%) were especially likely to be previously employed in education/training.
· Previous occupation varied by region as well.
· Education and training occupations were especially common among hikers in the Southwest Virginia region (46.2%).
This is an amazing report. Thanks for pointing it out.
Alternatively, go here: http://www.nps.gov/appa/ and select Management Documents.
One thing to keep in mind about the report is that they intentionally over sampled thru hikers, so as to get a good sample size for that group.
SGT Rock
10-10-2005, 17:16
Take the mouse-- its the the thing with the cord next to the computer-- and move the little arrow thingy over the underlined words. Then push the the button on the mouse a few times, very fast.
I can't find it based of that description smart-ass :D
I'm wireless.:jump
DaSchwartz
10-11-2005, 01:39
While thru-hikers are not racist overall, try being a black man trying to get a hitchhike into town. Not going to happen.
justusryans
10-11-2005, 08:11
While thru-hikers are not racist overall, try being a black man trying to get a hitchhike into town. Not going to happen.
I can't speak for others but I pick up hitchhikers if I'm alone. I have never cared about their color. That being said... yes there are ignorant people out there:(
icemanat95
10-11-2005, 09:09
I don't pick up hitchhikers except when I am near an AT crossing and spot an obvious backpacker. Then I don't give a darn what sex, color, sexual orientation, etc. They are a hiker and that's enough.
Availability of leisure time is a significant factor in who is able to chop a significant portion of their time out of a year to section hike or thru-hike....or even manage a long weekend. You've got to have either:
A. A good vacation plan
B. Good enough income that you can afford to take some time off without compensation
C. Independent wealth or an inheritance that allows you to take lots of time off
D. An understanding and supportive boss.
E. Have hit a transition point in your life where you are unemployed at the same time as you have good health, a lack of responsibilities and enough money to support yourself on the trail for an extended period.
Education allows people to have higher paying, better compensated jobs with 8-5, 5 day per week hours and decent vacation compensation after the first year of service. This allows them the potential for more free cash and more leisure time than someone with a high school diploma or a GED working in a mill or car repair shop or as a janitor (putting aside union laborers who are often quite well compensated and have well protected benefits and vacation programs). Demographically, education has not been as highly valued in minority communities as early employment. This is getting better, but it's a slow process. No matter how much money you throw at the problem, kids are only going to value education if their parents do, making ignorance almost hereditary in the sense that college degreed parents expect their children to earn college degrees, while laboring parents most often expect their children to get jobs as soon as they are able, limiting their opportunities for higher education.
There are certainly social limitations of minorities as well, some imposed by centuries of prejudice, others imposed from within their own communities. Dismantling those is the work of generations.
The bottom line is that while hiking is not, in and of itself, an expensive recreation compared to say Skiing or Golf, it does require the financial independence to be able to take time off and travel to hikeable terrain. This is going to put a roadblock up in front of people living hand-to-mouth with families to support and rents and mortgages to pay.
This has been the case for a very, very long time. recreational walking has always been the pastime of monied people. The very idea (in the USA) was created by the wealthy looking for something to do with their time. The first hiking trails and recreational bridle paths were cut by and for these people to vacation among the "sublime" mountains of New Hampshire, Vermont and New York. If you consider the people who created the AT, you also see a group that was, by and large, wealthy (or at least quite comfortable and secure) with the time and money to seek their recreation. They were lawyers, merchants, industrialists, architects and engineers.
It is important not to underestimate the importance of transition points. The break between college and professional life is an important transition and many students choose to take a deep breath here before plunging into a life pursuing their ambitions. A thru-hike fits nicely. Military people, aside from having significant chunks of paid vacation each year (30 days paid leave), also often have significant chunks of seperation pay coming to them when they retire or seperate from service....as well as the potential for taking a good break between their military life and civilian careers. Teachers generally have about 2.5 to 3 months off each summer where they do not have to work (unless they failed to manage their money properly during the other 9 months of the year). Civilian retirement may also provide substantial opportunities for long distance hikes, but retirement from a highly compensated career dramatically improves this.
Time and money are big influencers on who hikes and how they hike. Culture is also very important, as people who center their lives on urban life, won't even think about busting their hump for a week, getting hot, dirty and sweaty in the woods...even if the views are sublime.
Big Dawg
10-11-2005, 10:34
GREAT post, Iceman!! :sun
GREAT post, Iceman!! :sun
Except that he missed...
F: Those that have made long distance hiking a lifestyle without help from any of the above.
Footslogger
10-11-2005, 10:56
A very nice couple who live near Hiawasse drove me back out to the trail during my thru in 2003. They said ..."we don't pick up hitch-hikers but we do pick up thru-hikers". In some cases, being able to tell the difference might be difficult but over time I've pretty much adopted the same philosophy.
'Slogger
Hammock Hanger
10-11-2005, 10:58
1. Non-Hispanic Caucasian compared to other races?
2. Women compared to guys?
3. Under 40 compared to 40 and over?
Stats for what...
C - NH
Female
over 40
Hammock Hanger
10-11-2005, 11:01
I don't pick up hitchhikers except when I am near an AT crossing and spot an obvious backpacker. Then I don't give a darn what sex, color, sexual orientation, etc. They are a hiker and that's enough.
.
I would not even contemplate picking up a hitchhiker around town (even though I feel bad it ain't gonna happen).
When I am in the AT corridor I keep a very close eye out for a hiker in need. "HIKER" don't look for much else then the pack on the back and the need for a ride in the eyes...
SGT Rock
10-11-2005, 11:16
I pretty much follow the same rule of thumb. I am warry of guys at rest stops and such hitch hiking, but around trails I look for hikers and I could care less about race, sex, or animal.
icemanat95
10-11-2005, 12:27
Except that he missed...
F: Those that have made long distance hiking a lifestyle without help from any of the above.
Nope, that is "E." only the transition point has been made semi-permanent and the lifestyle is arranged to avoid responsibilities that tie the hiker down.
I
Time and money are big influencers on who hikes and how they hike. Culture is also very important, as people who center their lives on urban life, won't even think about busting their hump for a week, getting hot, dirty and sweaty in the woods...even if the views are sublime. I think Iceman hit the most important point of this rather interesting discussion [1].
It is not so much economics or racial, but cultural values that I think determine why it is such a small slice of people who do these long hikes. After all, as Iceman said, some non-college educated people do well (skilled tradespeople, mainly). Don't see many of that type on the trail. In my own family, I am an abberation. Someone who spends their vacation in the woods getting sweaty and dirty.
Coming from a long line of people who have done physical labor to earn their livelihood, the idea of spending a vacation to do what is essentially physical labor is rather odd. Vacations are supposed to be relaxing!
Even my cousins (who like me, are the first generation of their family to go to college) think it is odd to spend so much time in the woods. (Or for that matter, taking a run after a day of work). Our cultural values come from a family that had to work hard physically to put food on the table and heat in the house. We are only one generation removed from that lifestyle.
I am sure my cousins (or for that matter myself or my brothers, if we have any) children may be more inclined to do physical activities in their leisure time, esp. as they (probably) go away to college and won't commute to college and live at home like we all did. Exposure to a different lifestyle/cultural values. These children will have no living memory of parents coming home dead tired from physical activity. Physical activity will be assoc. with leisure...not a hard way to pay the bills.
So, I think the most telling statistic is the education level. Almost 70% of thru-hikers have a college degree of some sort! I bet the statisiitc would be higher if we count the number of people currently in college who are thru-hiking and *will be* college graduates.
A college eduction, as Iceman said, does provide more alternatives. As more minorities go to college, and more importantly have children who go to college, you will probably see a bit more variety on the trail. An education tends to change and expand a world view. An expanded world view often means wanting to see something different than what you know from back home. Be interesting to have this discussion 40 yrs from now and see if there are differerent ethnic groups on the trail.
Mags
[1] See! We can have a serious, in depth discussion without name calling ;)
Mags,
Wanted to say the same thing, but couldn't write it so nicely.
"An education tends to change and expand a world view. An expanded world view often means wanting to see something different than what you know from back home."
Nope, that is "E." only the transition point has been made semi-permanent and the lifestyle is arranged to avoid responsibilities that tie the hiker down.
That's funny!
Most of the long distance hikers I know don't become deadbeats and avoid responsibilities. instead, they just shift the emphasis from buying expensive new toys, houses and cars and save for their next hike.
An interesting thread. Backpacking strikes me as mostly a middleclass thing. I see very few wealthy people on the trails -- at least not any that disclosed their wealth.
Three of the six kids my mother trained to be hikers in the 30s and 40s still hike, though we are all in our 70s or nearing 70. The college grad connection is an interesting thought. Only two of us six finally graduated. Both still backpack, though I'm slowing down a bit thanks to a cardiologist that prescribed a medicine that damaged my lungs.
We tend to be in the low paying professions, like education and journalism. At least, none of my Mom's offspring will die wealthy -- unless, perhaps, I decide to sue the doctor.
I see very few skilled trades on the trail -- plumbers, electricians, carpenters and the like, though many of these make more money than I ever did. I once met a construction worker in Virginia who was section hiking the trail between jobs.
Weary
While thru-hikers are not racist overall, try being a black man trying to get a hitchhike into town. Not going to happen.
One of my hiking friends from this year was VisionQuest, a lovely African American lady. You can read about her problems with hitch hiking in her journal. <http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=110191> May 9th was one example. I really felt for her when I read it and this was not the only occasion.
Not sure why the link did not show... <http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=110191>
DaSchwartz
10-12-2005, 12:18
One of my hiking friends from this year was VisionQuest, a lovely African American lady. You can read about her problems with hitch hiking in her journal.
And she was a lady. Try being an african-american male. It's the old theory, if an african-american male is broke down on the highway, no one will stop to help. Locals generally will not pick them up nor will a smelly african-american hiker be welcomed in many towns. And think about this, how intimidating would it be to an african-american if a pickup truck with 3 rednecks pulls up to them. Most of the towns along the AT are nearly 100% white. I also remember either reading a thread here or on trailforums about an hiker calling the authorities on a black hiker because he didn't "look right".
I'm not saying hikers are racist (while I'm sure some are) but the local town folk certainly have their share of them.
Read, "Long Distance Hiking" by Roland Mueser. A few years old but a wonderful fairly scientific study of thru hikers, age, sex, race,types of packs, stove prefrence, tents, tons of statistics and summaries. I never paid too much attention to age, race or sex when out there. We were all thru hikers and belonged to a brotherhood (sisterhood) no non thru hiker will ever understand. It is a wonderful common bond that binds us and only those that have done it will ever understand. On the trail the message of Sargent Rock holds true today. No one cares who or what you are- you are a fellow thru hiker and thats all that matters.
rambunny
12-03-2005, 21:43
I'd rather know from any hiker i've ever met-the answer to the qustion -"Where were you when she (the AT) called your name. I probebly have no clue and do not give a rats butt what background someone comes from. I hiked with a guy for two weeks and several weeks later found out he was a 3 star general. It don't matter.
There is an effort in Atlanta to get African Americans out on the trail. Frank Peterman with the Wilderness Society (TWS) is involved - as his his lovely wife Audrey. Frank is the first African American Executive with TWS, and he is a great guy. The Atlanta Journal Constitution just featured an article on his work.
Check out the following link; http://www.keepingitwild.org/wild/
There are some pretty cool field trips (open to all) coming up in '06. They're looking for volunteers too. I plan to go one or more of the upcoming trips. The snorkeling trip in the Conosauga River is something I had hoped to do this past summer - but I never got around to it.