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10-K
09-04-2014, 07:23
Going on a 3 day AT hike tomorrow and am going to use the Oware tarp I bought from someone on WB last year as my shelter, paired with a Ti-Goat bug bivy and a piece of tyvek. I've been practicing the pitch this week and think I have it down enough to try it in the field.

This is part of a larger plan to create a more versatile shelter system than just a tent, with the key word being versatile. The tarp, stakes, tyvek, and bivy weigh in at 25.6 oz including stuff sacks.

I'm very much aware that there are tents and tent hybrids available that weigh less but.... there are no options - you're going to be sleeping in a tent if that's your shelter. With the tarp/bivy combo I can pitch the tarp or not, sleep in the bivy or not, etc.

Also, this doesn't mean that I'm never going to tent. It's more an effort to increase my shelter options instead of automatically reaching for a tent every time I go hiking. There is no such thing as a "best shelter" IMO. But... there is such a thing as having more shelter options.

I've also got a MLD Duomid and Ti-Goat Krestal bivy on the way. I'm hoping to make this my shelter system on the CDT next year.

Just realized I put this in the wrong forum... if a mod would please move...

MuddyWaters
09-04-2014, 07:58
I think a tarp with a bug net inner or even bivy is the most flexible. As long as the tarp is big enough to be useful. Just not the lightest. I like a good sized tarp in a rain, great for setting up and getting out of weather during breaks while keeping your sleeping zone dry and clean.I'm not a fan of tiny 6x7x4 type tarps at all. No real usefulness. 8x10 is good.

Weight penalty isn't bad for a cuben tarp/inner/bivy just a couple oz more than the lightest shelters.

10-K
09-04-2014, 08:07
Totally agree. As my cuben fiber stuff wears out I'm replacing it with silnylon where practicality trumps weight and in clothing I've started adding a few synthetic items instead of down.

The biggest epiphany I've had this year is that I can still pack light without the latest cutting edge UL gear that tends to be fragile and wears quickly.

This is the tarp I'm using this weekend: http://shop.bivysack.com/CatBirdTarp-TM-2-1CatBirdTarp2.htm

It's supposed to be a 2 person tarp but I would sure hate to have 2 people under it in a storm. It's just right for 1 person and gear or *maybe* 1 person, gear, and a dog.

MuddyWaters
09-04-2014, 08:23
My cuben shelter really has no wear, except a few patches. Bear can did some damage to my arc blast on the JMT, but I expected that, and planned to have to make some repairs . will need to glue on large overlays inside over wear areas to restore water integrity. Considering a few pics and post somewhere to help others know what to expect.

I camped near a woman one rainy night that had water come thru her cuben groundsheet, she was kind of pissed. It was a 0.74 and she bought it used.

Coffee
09-04-2014, 08:33
My Hexamid Twin has 53 nights of use with little noticeable wear on the cuben itself, but the zipper recently failed (which zPacks has generously offered to repair at no charge). The fact that it has a separate groundsheet opens up the possibility of sleeping in the open or in shelters so there is some of the flexibility and lots of bug free space inside. The one thing I'm a little concerned about is whether this shelter has enough life left in it for a full AT or PCT thru next year. I suspect that it would be fine for a PCT thru since there should be many nights when I won't need to put the tent up at all (if I can get mentally comfortable with cowboy camping, which I'm currently not). But for the AT, I'm not so sure because I'd probably use it almost every night since I don't like sleeping in shelters. Actually I'm not even entirely sure that the hexamid is the right shelter for an AT thru due to its larger footprint and the smaller sites and platforms particularly in the north.

10-K
09-04-2014, 09:10
That makes 3 zipper failures for zPacks tents that I know of. A guy I was hiking around/with on the PCT carried a pair of needle nosed pliers with him to fix his after it failed on him twice - sort of puts a dent in the weight savings. zPacks offered to repair it free but when you're thru hiking a trail sending your shelter back to fix a zipper borders on a major inconvenience.

zPacks provides great customer service and I've easily spent over $1k with the company - this is just an observation.

Coffee
09-04-2014, 09:19
In my case, the zipper failure was more of an inconvenience because only one of the zipper pulls failed and I could still close the zipper from the other side. So I guess I should have said that a zipper pull failed rather than the entire zipper. The adjustment I had to make is that I had to get into and out of the tent from the side that I didn't prefer based on how I set up my bag inside the tent. Also, it happened about a week before I finished the Colorado Trail so it wasn't that big of a deal. I attribute it to wear and tear on UL gear after quite a bit of use. I agree that if a total zipper failure (unable to close at all) happened in the middle of a PCT or AT thru hike, and if the bugs were out, it would be a much greater inconvenience.

10-K
09-04-2014, 13:16
Update: I ordered a MLD Duomid last week and settled in for the 8 week wait. Imagine my surprise when it showed up today. :)

Cut the guylines, attached them to the linelocs and had the shelter up in minutes. Pretty simple. Stake out the corners and insert trekking pole in center support.

That's it.

Guess I'll take the Duomid instead of the Oware this weekend.

Dogwood
09-04-2014, 16:35
"The tarp, stakes, tyvek, and bivy weigh in at 25.6 oz including stuff sacks."

The Hexamid, Solomid, Skyscape, etc in CF is a strong contender to this above system but you definitely can get the tarp, stakes, tyvek(polycro instead), and bivy weight down into the about 16 oz area. Don't always need a ground sheet with a WP bottom half bivy too. Nor do you always need a bivy with a tarp. Love my Mountain Laurel Designs CF Solomid XL.

Dogwood
09-04-2014, 16:47
I think a tarp with a bug net inner or even bivy is the most flexible. As long as the tarp is big enough to be useful. Just not the lightest. I like a good sized tarp in a rain, great for setting up and getting out of weather during breaks while keeping your sleeping zone dry and clean.I'm not a fan of tiny 6x7x4 type tarps at all. No real usefulness. 8x10 is good.

Weight penalty isn't bad for a cuben tarp/inner/bivy just a couple oz more than the lightest shelters.

Expounding on what MW said I found I saved some wt(about 5-6 ozs overall) by NOT opting for the most minimalist sized gram weenie saving tarp and instead going with a tarp slightly larger like the Oware 1.5 Cat Tarp or something like a customized sized soemwhere between a 1p and 2 p tarp at only a slight wt penalty because it allows me to leave my MLD Supelight bivy at home more often. I currently have three differnt UL tarps(not tarptents, not Hexamid, Solomid type shelters) providing differnt coverages(area), wts, and strengths that allow me to sometimes roll with only a CF tarp w stakes, lines, and polycro that is in the 10 oz area with very good coverage as a tall guy keeping me dry in routinely wet weather.

RED-DOG
09-04-2014, 17:18
on my 2006 AT thru I used a 8x10 Etowah design tarp, No bug net and no bivy I used a same size piece of Tyvex and the tarp worked perfectly and it still works great today I had to repair on little hole, The closer I get to my PCT thru start date the more I think the cuben fiber stuff would be a mistake to take, I took my Arc Blast out a couple of weekends ago and I just propped it against a tree and when I picked it up their was a rip about 6 inches long in the top portion of it, I don't think the cuben fiber stuff is tough enough for long distance hiking.

1azarus
09-04-2014, 18:43
I was going to tease you a bit about using a tarp being the first step toward hammocking, but wasn't sure you'd laugh... Anyway, the flexibility of the tarp is something us hangers really get to enjoy. Welcome to the club.

rocketsocks
09-04-2014, 18:48
I was going to tease you a bit about using a tarp being the first step toward hammocking, but wasn't sure you'd laugh... Anyway, the flexibility of the tarp is something us hangers really get to enjoy. Welcome to the club.

Probably the very reason I continue to consider a hammock set up.

1azarus
09-04-2014, 18:58
I was going to tease you a bit about using a tarp being the first step toward hammocking, but wasn't sure you'd laugh... Anyway, the flexibility of the tarp is something us hangers really get to enjoy. Welcome to the club.

Probably the very reason I continue to consider a hammock set up.

Yes! Did I just hijack a thread?

rocketsocks
09-04-2014, 19:00
Yes! Did I just hijack a thread?

...troublemaker :D

10-K
09-04-2014, 19:00
Yes! Did I just hijack a thread?

Ah... no sweat, I do it all the time. :)

SteelCut
09-04-2014, 19:56
I was going to tease you a bit about using a tarp being the first step toward hammocking, but wasn't sure you'd laugh... Anyway, the flexibility of the tarp is something us hangers really get to enjoy. Welcome to the club.

I agree as well. Exactly the reason I'm moving away from the MLD Duomid to hammocking. It turns out it's not as light weight as the Duomid + interior bugnet but it's way more flexible in terms of hanging, tarping, and I don't have to setup or take down in a puddle. I still think that the Duomid is a great shelter and I'll keep mine for the Sierras, etc. but hammocks are more versatile in areas with lots of trees and wet weather.

10-K
09-04-2014, 20:08
At the risk of hijacking my own thread I setup and seam sealed my Duomid today. Looking forward to trying it out this weekend - I've got it in the basement under floodlights so the sealer will be dry in the morning. Supposed to rain off and on all weekend. :)

Steelcut: What are the 2 button snaps on the zipper fly for? Are you supposed to reach out from inside the shelter to snap them when you're inside? I'm sure it's something obvious I'm missing.

It also came with a 12"x12" piece of silnylon - not sure what that's for either.

Malto
09-04-2014, 20:18
In another thread I mentioned that I abandoned tarp/bivy after my PCT hike. I made my own solomid style mid and pair it with either my bivy or my MYOG bug inner. I did it to give myself ultimate flexibility to only set up what is needed each night and in some pretty tight quarters, I probably have the worst average sleep spot. Given that I usually hike until dark or beyond, having a quick versatile setup is greatly appreciated after a 40 mile day. I am also heading out this weekend to hike CT a couple of times. One last thing, total system will come in at 18 oz. regardless of bug inner or bivy in the cold.

kidchill
09-04-2014, 20:25
I used a warbonnet hammock with their massive tarp for my AT thruhike. This past winter I ponied up and spent a ridiculous amount of money on a cuben fiber tarp, that's almost as large as the superfly by warbonnet. I think it's like 8'x11' or something like that...but, it only weighs like 6ozs or something, lol. Fall is rapidly approaching, so I'll definitely be out in the woods, but I'm tempted to try dropping the hammock, get a more comfy sleeping pad, and possible a DWG coated or synthetic bag, and do some tarp camping. Considering the light weight of that tarp, I could truly go UL and still be protected!

SteelCut
09-04-2014, 20:33
Steelcut: What are the 2 button snaps on the zipper fly for? Are you supposed to reach out from inside the shelter to snap them when you're inside? I'm sure it's something obvious I'm missing.

I believe that they are there to take some load off the zipper if you use the tie out next to them. I have the Cuben version but I don't remember the tie out on mine in the same place as yours but I do have the snaps. I've never used them.

Malto
09-04-2014, 20:48
I believe that they are there to take some load off the zipper if you use the tie out next to them. I have the Cuben version but I don't remember the tie out on mine in the same place as yours but I do have the snaps. I've never used them.

I put them on my shelter to relieve the stress on the zipper.

HeartFire
09-04-2014, 20:51
zipper failure - even heavy duty #10 zippers will fail. it's really the zipper pull that fails, not the zipper, and it doesn't matter what size it is. people have a tendency to pull away from the zipper tape - it puts more tension on the fabric and the zipper opens more easily (one handed) , but what you are doing is pulling the 2 halves of the metal pull apart. it only takes a microscopic amount of change in the width to cause the zipper teeth not to mesh together. Also, dirt and grit get in them and this adds to the problem. I have tents come back occasionally for this, When I get a tent back, I change out every single zipper pull on the tent - and I don't charge for the repair.
Judy/LightHeart Gear

MuddyWaters
09-04-2014, 22:12
Zippers need maintenance,particularly in arid dusty places out west. Particularly places with fine talc like dust.

The dust builds up in the zipper over a week or so until it won't operate . when it gets hard, u are chewing it up every time you keep zipping it. WASH IT.

That may mean dunking your pack or tent in a creek, but it restores function. I've seen zips get so hard to work people broke them trying.

Dogwood
09-04-2014, 23:07
Anyone have extensive experience with the Hexamid .7 Nanonseeum netting as the floor(with groundcloth over that) durability? I heard from more than one ULer/SULer that the netting on the floor, even with a polycro/Tyvek/CF ground cloth, started getting holes in it which started defeating the main design purpose(from what I gather) of repelling the creepy crawlies.

10-K, curious as to why you opted for the extra space of the Duomid? R U planning on taking along the dog or wife using this shelter? Would like to here your impressions of the steep walls too and if you think that affects the usable ground area around the perimeter.

Coffee
09-04-2014, 23:18
I have found the Hexamid floor netting to be surprisingly durable. I closely inspected it prior to the Colorado Trail and there were no holes. I have yet to closely inspect it after putting an additional 22 nights on it but I don't believe that there are any holes now, and I'm not always diligent about site preparation (removing stones, small twigs, etc... )

As one may guess, I'm quite happy with the Hexamid. For a shelter that weighs only slightly over 20 ounces including ground sheet and stakes, it provides tons of room and has kept me dry in very wet conditions. As far as I can tell, the only incursions of water have been due to my full length thermarest prolite slipping down the floor and contacting the netting or cuben material at the foot end of the shelter and resulting in water streaming in to some degree, never to the point where I was flooded out or my bag got wet, other than from the inevitable condensation. Condensation can be an issue. I actually had horrendous condensation on my last night on the CT as I pitched on grass/dirt right next to the Junction Creek bridge around mile 7 of segment 28, dead tired after a nearly 30 mile day - and it rained that night. But at that point I didn't really care!

Dogwood
09-04-2014, 23:38
I'm sure a free micro brew pint in Durango soon had you forgetting about the condensation. :D

10-K
09-05-2014, 05:52
10-K, curious as to why you opted for the extra space of the Duomid? R U planning on taking along the dog or wife using this shelter? Would like to here your impressions of the steep walls too and if you think that affects the usable ground area around the perimeter.

Solomid was too small and Solomid XL was "only" 1.5 oz lighter. I could have gotten the cuben version but I'm in cuben-rebellion at the moment and didn't want to shell out the extra $$$.

Taking it out on an AT hike this weekend - will report back on first impressions.

Mags
09-05-2014, 09:50
Re: cuben

the price to weight savings ratio, to me, is something I can not justify. :)

Dogwood
09-05-2014, 18:48
SUL heresy I say.

Mags
09-05-2014, 19:25
SUL heresy I say.

Good thing I never considered myself SUL then. :D

Dogwood
09-05-2014, 21:41
C'mon, whatsa wronga wit yousall? donna ya know ya musta have cuben fiber shelter, UL carbon fiber trekking poles, a titanium folding spork, a closet of 1000 down jackets, and a $160 inflatable mattress to go fora walk walk a?

Literally, I took the $900 I was about to spend on a ooh ahhh look at my gram weenie saving cf fiber pack and shelter, that would have saved me a whopping knee buckling 6.2 oz total over a comparable backpack and shelter I already owned, and funded a 1/2 the Grand Enchantment Tr hike, a Quachita Tr thru-hike, a Buffalo River hike, and even had do re mi left over to get me to the Border Route Tr/Superior Hiking Tr for a fall trek. I don't know about anyone else but when I'm faced with either having shiny new a wee bit ohh ahh lighter gear and actually hiking with what I have I'm choosing to go hiking with what I already have.

MuddyWaters
09-05-2014, 22:51
Anyone have extensive experience with the Hexamid .7 Nanonseeum netting as the floor(with groundcloth over that) durability? I heard from more than one ULer/SULer that the netting on the floor, even with a polycro/Tyvek/CF ground cloth, started getting holes in it which started defeating the main design purpose(from what I gather) of repelling the creepy crawlies.



Well, I have only about 70 nights in mine, on every kind of terrain imaginable. Lots of time on rocks, cactus needles, embedded sticks and pebbles, etc.My opinion is that what you state above is the opposite of my experience. If anything, the mesh is extremely durable, and gives the cuben groundsheet inside a huge amt of protection.

My only minor issue is the crap that stays attached, wet or dry, that I carefully brush off as I roll up so nothing damages the canopy.

Same with any debris inside, empty it out before rolling the shelter up or it can damage the canopy.

Aside from the weight, I like that it can be repaired with tape, it dries fast, and the smooth surface hold a fraction of the condensation that a textured fabric does, much less water yo wipe down or dry off. I recall anecdotes that it may produce less condensation, that would depend on the emissivity compared to silnylon probably.

But the #1 advantage that makes it worth $$$, it don't sag like sil does.

10-K
09-07-2014, 06:59
Took the Duomid out for an overnighter this weekend and based on that very limited experience I have a favorable impression of the shelter.

For my tastes it's perfect for 1 person and gear. I could get my German Shepherd under there with me if I wanted but that's about it. I wouldn't want to try to get 2 adults under it in inclement weather - somebody would get wet. If it were pitched in a location that would allow tying it at the apex that would help but the trekking pole in the middle is somewhat of an obstacle. As I was solo I was able to put the pole at an angle and give myself plenty of room.

I also wonder how long it's going to be before I roll over and knock the trekking pole down, collapsing the shelter on top of me. It's not "if", but "when" that is going to happen.. :)

Best thing - I can sit up and move around under it with ease and I'm a bit over 6'2".

Next best thing - I can't see condensation ever being an issue with the control you have over pitching it high or low - and the vent at the top which can be closed is pretty large.

Least favorite thing - pole in the middle. Filed under "the cost of doing business with a mid". But, I will actively look for pitching locations that I can use a piece of spectra cord to tie the apex off to eliminate the pole.

SteelCut
09-07-2014, 07:53
Thanks for following up on your experience.

My wife and I do share our Duomid and have done so in inclement weather. It wasn't too bad and we both stayed dry. I believe that it's an ideal solo shelter and definitely a bit cramped for 2 on anything other than a short trip.

I too am not a huge fan of the pole in the middle. Placing the pole at an angle for a solo shelter has worked well for me too. I've experimented with use two poles (with extenders) to eliminate the center pole. I've had a hard time keeping both the trekking pole handles secure in the top pocket. One always seems to slip out collapsing the tent. Perhaps my handles are too large for the pocket or I need to somehow secure them together.

10-K
09-07-2014, 08:01
About the buttons on the zipper fly. It occurred to me that another possible use for them besides taking pressure off the zipper is that in the event of zipper failure you wouldn't be totally screwed. To that effect, I wish there were 2 more snaps higher up.

bigcranky
09-07-2014, 09:23
Re: cuben

the price to weight savings ratio, to me, is something I can not justify. :)

Yeah, me too, then I went and got a Hexamid Twin for our Long Trail hike. My justification went as follows: I need a new solo tent, and I'm willing to spend $300+ on a new Tarptent. My wife and I are about to hike a tough vertical trail, and need a two-person shelter that will be used maybe half the nights we are out. Our Lunar Duo is great but is almost three pounds and too large for many tent sites. It's our big vacation this year and $525 for a tent is only a small part of the overall cost. (And only $200 more than the solo tent, so it only cost me $200.... heh.)

(You like this so far? :) )

So I got the Hexamid Twin. It's 23 ounces total with 8 stakes and really long guy lines and line-locs, which is half the weight of our Lunar Duo. It'll make a terrific solo shelter in the future. It held up well, was easy and fast to pitch, had great weather protection, and the noseeum mesh floor is still in perfect condition.

Interior space is perfect for two people and gear, though our packs did not fit inside. Also, one of the people should be smaller than the other :)

Coffee
09-07-2014, 09:44
That's great to read that the Hexamid Twin worked for you on the long trail. I was wondering about how many sites were big enough for the fairly large space needed for a good pitch and whether the tent can be properly set up on platforms (does the long trail have platform sites?). Long Trail is on my bucket list at some point to complete my "little triple crown" - JMT, ct, and lt...

July
09-07-2014, 10:04
About the buttons on the zipper fly. It occurred to me that another possible use for them besides taking pressure off the zipper is that in the event of zipper failure you wouldn't be totally screwed. To that effect, I wish there were 2 more snaps higher up.

10-k you could always stitch in some velcro and seal, I've got a Cricket With a few hundred miles on it. Just have to be a little more selective on wind direction on setup than with the mid.

Slo-go'en
09-07-2014, 10:05
Took the Duomid out for an overnighter this weekend and based on that very limited experience I have a favorable impression of the shelter.

Humm, I wouldn't want to pitch it on dirt like your photo there 10K if there were any chance of heavy rain. You'd get a lot of mud splashing inside. Both the SMD Luna Solo and Gatewood cape use a center pole and I never had a issue with either. The Dumid looks to be a larger version of the Gatewood cape, which I found to be functional, but cramped and as it also had no floor, the mud splash was an issue.

Coffee: There are only a couple of places with tent platforms on the Long Trail. Any tent which is not free standing is a bit of a pain to set up on a platform.

10-K
09-07-2014, 10:07
Humm, I wouldn't want to pitch it on dirt like your photo there 10K if there were any chance of heavy rain.

This I know.... :)

bigcranky
09-07-2014, 16:20
That's great to read that the Hexamid Twin worked for you on the long trail.

The Hexamid Twin needs a smaller space than our Lunar Duo. There were several tight spots where the Duo would not have fit (Battell comes to mind), but the Twin was fine. We saw a few platforms, but they were all being used by large groups. When I put together the Hexamid I got the line locs and made much longer guy lines just in case we needed to set up on a platform, but ended up not doing so.

I like your idea of a little triple crown. Call it the "working folks' triple crown." For those of us who can get a few weeks off at a time, rather than six months.

Miner
09-07-2014, 21:21
As my cuben fiber stuff wears out I'm replacing it with silnylon where practicality trumps weight


I'm in cuben-rebellion at the moment

My MLD Grace Solo Tarp made with cuben fiber was bought in early 2008. After being used on the PCT and AT and multiple shorter trips is still in pretty good shape. It looks like it could continue to be used for several more years without issue. Considering how well its held up, I think it was a good buy for the money at the time. Cuben fiber tarps just don't wear like a cuben fiber backpacks and other cuben gear as they normally don't get rubbed by anything.

Here is my MLD Tarp wtih a brown MLD superbivy in the White Mountains in late September of 2012 on the AT (Haven't stuffed my quilt in the bivy yet in this photo). The second one is just before the Canadian border on the PCT on Oct.2, 2009 as I packed up. The tarp is is as good of shape in the 1st photo as it was 3 years earlier in the 2nd one. Actually its still in as good of shape today as it was then and its been in high winds, rain, snow, hail, etc.
28269 28270

I actually had been hoping that it would show some signs of wear so I could justify replacing it with something newer; just to try some of the other newer style shelters out. I finally broke down and recently bought something newer just on the justification of saving and ounce or so (Zpacks Hexamid Tarp with no netting or beak at 6.2oz) and a borah Gear cuben fiber bivy at 4.5oz. Though its simpler to use and perhaps more weather worthy in some conditions, it isn't a flexible to use as my MLD tarp. Due to being a shaped tarp, the hexamid only has one shape and size it can be pitched in. You can only vary the height off the ground depending on weather and air flow needs. With my MLD tarp, I can pitch in in places no tent or shaped tarp can fit. I can overlap bushes, logs, or rocks with one side or narrow the pitch as necessary to fit in cramped conditions. So I admit to being a bit torn over what I'll eventually go with on the CDT since I could see them both working better in different situaitons. I'd still take a bivy either way though since I mainly cowboy camp and often don't pitch my shelter at all if I can get away with it.

My first bivy sack was a titanium goat one from 2006 that I lost the 2nd week on the PCT in 2009 when I slide down a snow covered slope into a tree well in the San Jacintos; didn't notice that it fell out of my pack. Replaced it with a MLD superbivy with a half moon opening that is still in excellent shape. I bought the borah gear cuben bivy in spring to get something 2oz lighter and to try a full head area net style. All of them were great products. The titanium goat being less breathable (which is a plus in cold weather with strong winds )and cheaper then the others (pretty good deal for the money). I've been pretty happy with the Borah Gear bivy as it does allow better air flow in hotter weather due to the larger net area though I had to have them resize the bivy shorter since their default size is HUGE compared to the other two. Under a small tarp, being bigger is a negative as I have to defend a longer length under the tarp. I also miss the bathtube like floor of the MLD bivy. The MLD superbivy has held up and is almost as good as new despite being used most of the time since I got it in spring of 2009. I'll probably still use it in colder weather since its more enclosed due to the half moon face net compared to an all net head area.

Another thing about tarps. I dont' use linelocs as I found that I only use 3 lengths for my guylines anyway. One, the tieouts staked directly to the ground. Two, my guyline at its full length (each end of the line has a loop tied), Three, the guyline at half length where both looped ends are over the stake. Having loops on the guyline ends also allows you to connect another length of line to the other by looping in around the other loop, but I've never needed to do that. With needle point titanium stakes, I can always get them in the ground around where I need them. If I can't push one in, I move it a few inches over in an arc (keeping the guyline pulled tight) and usually I can get it in somewhere. Though I have used a bowling ball sized rock once or twice in the past 8 years of using tarps and I'll sometimes tie the head end of the tarp directly to a tree trunk.

Dogwood
09-07-2014, 23:17
When i saw the pics I thought i was viewing one of my tarp and bivy camp set ups Miner. Your style is very similiar to mine. With some care in packing away from sharp objects I too agree a CF.75 tarp lasts longer than the same .75 wt CF(not hybrid Cf) backpack. And, in my use, even knowing how to treat UL gear, for me a .75 cf tarp lasts longer than a significantly lighter wt cf tarp. Many good pts. I too have a .75 cf MLD Grace Tarp since 2008 that after many 1000's of trail miles(CDT, CT, BMT/AT Loop, PT, OT, many Nat Park multi nighters, etc) and 100's of trail nights still without a hole, tear, or even abrasion.

One of the things I started doing with tarps is expanding my tarp size arsenal by customizing to a slightly larger coverage for a 1 p than always going with the most minimalist most lightest wt tarp options. At a very small wt penalty(less than 2 oz) i can still have massive coverage, more often(not in the worst stormiest of weather) pitch higher(allows so I don't have to crawl under a tarp/ I hate that and I can sit up under one), and as you state set up in a wide range of configurations on very small area camping areas(actually I tend to not set up in designated camping areas, having a tarp allows me to do this more often). Having two tarps in my tarp arsenal that are customized slightly longer and wider even though may weighing 1.5-2 oz more overall they save me wt overall more often because I can more often leave the bivy(and the bivy wt) at home.

10-K
09-08-2014, 08:35
T
I too am not a huge fan of the pole in the middle. Placing the pole at an angle for a solo shelter has worked well for me too. I've experimented with use two poles (with extenders) to eliminate the center pole. I've had a hard time keeping both the trekking pole handles secure in the top pocket. One always seems to slip out collapsing the tent. Perhaps my handles are too large for the pocket or I need to somehow secure them together.

I'm going to make a bracket out of a short piece of 1/2" PVC that'll hold 2 poles together. Handles will be on the ground, pole tips will be inserted into the bracket which will be velcroed into the top of the mid. It'll probably add 2 oz or so. Pretty simple really... 8" piece of PVC, heated over our gas stove and gently bent to the correct angle, a few piece of velcro to hold it in place and *poof*, no more pole in the middle.

Or maybe I'm going to waste some pipe and an hour of my life... Worth a shot though. :)

SteelCut
09-08-2014, 08:37
Nice idea. Let us know how it works out.

10-K
09-08-2014, 10:18
Come to think of it the PVC will likely weigh less than the metal pole extender. It'll be close.


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10-K
09-08-2014, 13:56
Pole in the middle problem solved with a 14" piece of thin wall PVC!

I heated the PVC on my gas stove until it was pliable and bent it to about 30*. After it cooled it will flex from 25*-90* without enough stress to cause a break. I predict it'll last indefinitely.

Pole extender weight is 0.7 oz. PVC angle bracket weighs 1.2 oz. Not counting the angle the length of the PVC creates a 6" pole extender on either side which fits my BD pole tips perfectly. If someone had pole tips that were larger just heat the ends of the PVC, insert pole tips and let cool to custom mold the PVC to the pole tips.

See attached photos for setup. It also makes the shelter more stable.

SteelCut
09-08-2014, 14:01
Very nice. I think I have similar poles. I needed to use a 12" extension to use my poles (poles were not fully extended). I'm going to have to try this with my setup.

10-K
09-08-2014, 14:10
I have my BD poles set to 140 cm + the 6" extension created by the PVC. Just right for a good pitch.

Well.. this photo doesn't show a particularly good pitch - this is 4 stakes and no tweaking with the pitch after setting it up with the angle bracket.

The other photo is my first attempt.. Needed to add about 6 more inches of (thin wall) PVC to get it right.

10-K
09-08-2014, 15:17
Also replaced the corner guylines with orange 2.3 mm dyneema reflective cord - makes it easier to find the corners quicker during setup.

StealthHikerBoy
09-08-2014, 15:46
I gotta say, that might be the coolest mod to some gear I have ever seen.

I've been wanting to get a tarp setup for some time, and wondering why they heck anyone would want a mid with a pole right smack in the middle of there living space. The little PVC thing is ingenious. Something similar works incredibly well to hold up the LightHeart tents.

Anyway, thanks, as this has gotten me thinking about a pyramid style tarp all over again.

Gambit McCrae
09-08-2014, 16:23
10-K is the pic above considered a "Tarp"? U akways imagine tarping as like a 10x8 sylnylon pitched somewhat angled or in Aframe style

10-K
09-08-2014, 16:26
10-K is the pic above considered a "Tarp"? U akways imagine tarping as like a 10x8 sylnylon pitched somewhat angled or in Aframe style

It's a floorless shelter. I would consider it in the family of shaped tarps I guess.

10-K
09-08-2014, 16:27
I gotta say, that might be the coolest mod to some gear I have ever seen.

I've been wanting to get a tarp setup for some time, and wondering why they heck anyone would want a mid with a pole right smack in the middle of there living space. The little PVC thing is ingenious. Something similar works incredibly well to hold up the LightHeart tents.

Anyway, thanks, as this has gotten me thinking about a pyramid style tarp all over again.

I actually got the inspiration for the PVC from thinking about my LH Solo tent. :)

jimmyjam
09-08-2014, 18:15
I use a similar set up with a myog shaped cuben tarp and a myog net tent and polycro ground sheet. Then on the rare occasion i stay in a shelter i can set up my net tent if it looks mousey or just put my pad on the ground sheet. Its a versatile system .

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4Bears
09-08-2014, 22:17
Great hack 10K, thanks for sharing!!

10-K
09-12-2014, 06:30
Thread about failing zippers on the PCT at Backpackinglight.com:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=95128

Praha4
09-13-2014, 21:07
fwiw, my MLD Patrol cuben tarp

28326

Wise Old Owl
09-13-2014, 21:28
Probably the very reason I continue to consider a hammock set up.


Funny you mention that - I was out scouting spots inside French Creek State Park and realized pretty quickly a traditional tarp stealth site wouldn't work. Yea I got hit with a down pour.... got in 10 miles today.

The Cleaner
09-13-2014, 21:36
A 5x7 rip-stop nylon tarp with brass gromets was one of several gear purchases in 1976 as there weren't many lightweight tents back then. I used it over 25 years. I bought an Early Winters gore-tex bivy sack in 1983, which made cold weather camping much better. I was UL before the recent arrival of the many options available today. Still use the bivy sometimes...28327

Wil
09-14-2014, 06:07
zPacks provides great customer serviceJoe already replaced my zipper once, for free, and I'm feeling awkward just two trips later asking for repair again; I should learn to do it myself, just cut the end and slip on a new slider, I guess.

MANY people I camp with have zipper failures on those tiny zippers, constantly, all brands. I think the makers should consider moving up to larger, heavier and more resilient zippers and the hell with the weight penalty. And hope we buyers are sophisticated enough to accept the higher weight for the value.