View Full Version : altimeter/barometer watches
DatFLhiker
09-04-2014, 13:43
anyone have recommendations? was looking at Casio pag-240 but have heard negative reviews about altitude readings in terms of accuracy and having to re calibrate every so often and also suunto first time i hear about this brand, havent really looked at their watches
You have to recalibrate any altimeter all the time..... whether it's on a watch or not. Also if you get a watch with a thermometer know that you have to take the watch off for a fair amount of time to get a temp because of your body heat.
I have an ABC watch and rarely wear it because of its size. I have an altimeter by Sun that looks kinda like this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Sun-Altimeter-202/dp/B0012ADIYW/ref=sr_1_13?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1409853072&sr=1-13 and leave it by my bed and check the pressure periodically for weather info.
I have a Casio PAW 1300-1V Pathfinder on my wrist right now. I will not get into all the things I like/would prefer it has but I've been happy with it. It's solar powered so I don't have to be concerenerd about battery life. It's what I take when outside the country. Bought it at a Denver REI on sale with my dividend and since I asked the REI electronics associate he gave me a 20% off deal for the in perfect condition display model that lacked a box. This is certainly less bulky than an older Suunto Vector I had bought at the Salt lake City Outdoor Show many yrs ago.
http://www.amazon.com/Casio-PAW1300-1V-Pathfinder-Watch-Black/dp/B000WCOBJW
My other sporty very shallow profile looking battery powered altimeter watch is a Suunto Core which I like but also have one or two reservations about.
http://www.suunto.com/coreallblack/
Think about how you'll use a altimeter/compass/barometer/temp/etc watch and the possible drawbacks before making your choice.
The Solemates
09-04-2014, 14:38
I love my Casio protrek
barometer, altimeter, thermometer, solar, compass, plus all the other stuff a watch has
The Suunto Core altimeter feature is pretty accurate with its multiple sensors and reads to 3 ft increments(not so important for AT type travel but when you're in the desert/flat snow covered tundra in pancake terrain for miles in all directions the greater accuracy(3 ft increments) can help determine where you are if using with topos) . If you're not too hung up on color patterns you can get one for about $200 although, as I said before, think about how you'll mostly be using an altimeter watch as some face/color/readout combinations can be harder to read in some conditions. Suunto(U.S.), in my experience, offers excellent customer servicing. I can't speak to Casio customer service though as I've never had any experience with them.
A feature I like on altimeter watches is an altimeter or altitude lock. I find it handy when I reach camp which is usually at a known elevation which I find is important to know when in the mountains. If you don't have the altitude lock as the barometeric pressure changes, as it often does during the night, you'll have to often readjust the altimeter reading every morning which I found to be a PITA basically every morning.
http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Altimeter-Watch-Reviews/Suunto-Core
Aaron has been doing some decent gear reviews addressing many of the pts I also want reviewed. He did a review on the Casio PAW 1300. http://www.trailgroove.com/issue6.html?autoflip=33
I liked Aaron's c2c Spark and Zpacks sleeping bag reviews as well.
Another Kevin
09-04-2014, 17:29
I've got a Casio SGW-400H. It's decently accurate. Usually when I get to a known elevation, I'm within 40-60 feet of the tabulated altitude. (If I'm farther off than that, I look for a change in the weather!) It reads 20 foot increments, but a more precise readout isn't useful. Little blips in the barometric pressure will make excursions bigger than that.
It has an "altitude hold" mode, but it's too easy to drop out of it. I generally wind up just resetting the altitude in the morning.
I've gotten in the habit of putting elevations of known points on my route card, and every few hours, when I get to a lakefront or a summit (both of which have tabulated elevations on topos), I reset the altimeter. It takes only a few seconds. It takes longer to find my pencil and write the time hack on the route card. (Yeah, on trail, you don't usually need a route card. You also don't usually need an altimeter.)
The other thing I use the altimeter for is motivation. A couple of weeks ago, seeing the altitude wind up helped keep up my spirits on a 2700-foot elevation gain.
The Solemates
09-04-2014, 18:00
I dont really care if my altimeter is a little off. I use it as a basic macroscopic judge anyways....like to tell if I am at 9000 feet or 10000 feet. it certainly has an accuracy of at least 1000 feet, so that suits me. I dont care if it says 9325 when I am actually at 9450.
You adjust the altimeter based on the pressure, right? How do you know what the pressure is? I think these instruments show both readings , but if of is off, seems like they would both be off...
You adjust the altimeter based on the pressure, right? How do you know what the pressure is? I think these instruments show both readings , but if of is off, seems like they would both be off...
Barometers are adjusted using pressure. Altimeters take it a step further and convert the pressure into an altitude. (I think that's right...).
I set my altimeter based on a known altitude.
I think that's correct, 10-k. If so, then you need the correct pressure. But if your watch is giving you the wrong altitude, then isn't it also giving you the wrong pressure? So how would you know the correct pressure?
Oh, sorry ...didn't see your last sentence...I guess that's what you have to do, then - wait till you're at a known altitude.
If knowing altitude and position is important to you, then why wouldn't someone use, say, a Garmin Oregon or Garmin Map? It's my understanding that they are based on GPS satellite, so changes in barometric pressure wouldn't matter? I think that they come with a precise electronic compass, clock, etc. At least that's my impression.
Sarcasm the elf
09-05-2014, 08:43
If knowing altitude and position is important to you, then why wouldn't someone use, say, a Garmin Oregon or Garmin Map? It's my understanding that they are based on GPS satellite, so changes in barometric pressure wouldn't matter? I think that they come with a precise electronic compass, clock, etc. At least that's my impression.
Tried that, the Garmins eat through batteries. They're fine for a weekend trip, but if you want to have them on and ready for a trip that is a couple of weeks long, then the battery weight quickly becomes impractical.
FlyPaper
09-05-2014, 11:03
anyone have recommendations? was looking at Casio pag-240 but have heard negative reviews about altitude readings in terms of accuracy and having to re calibrate every so often and also suunto first time i hear about this brand, havent really looked at their watches
I got a Pathfinder PAW500-1V 3 years ago for only $106 dollars. It runs on solar power, sets time via atomic clock, and measures altitude, temperature, and barometric pressure. The altitude is most useful on the trail of course. And I've never found a use for measuring barometric pressure, but I suppose that's just another number that can be output based on the same sensor that measures altitude.
In planning my route I write down known altitudes of several landmarks such as shelters, summits, and gaps. Usually I calibrate in the morning and it stays pretty close for the rest of the day. When you have good elevation profiles you can accurately tell how far you've walked (unless you're on flat terrain). When you have to make a 1000 foot climb, you can track very accurately what percent you've done. I love this watch for hiking and I've even taken it scuba diving (although it doesn't do anything useful other than tell time in the water).
I've done some hiking along with people who carry a GPS. Although the GPS doesn't need recalibrating every day, I've found that pressure based altitude readings are more accurate than the GPS is in the mountains. I don't know why, but the GPS is often more than 100 feet off where as a pressure based altimeter reading is usually within 40 feet by the end of the day when calibrated in the morning. This is based on going from one known elevation to another known elevation.
I wouldn't worry too much about recalibration. Usually you have enough known elevations on your hike (or at least you can get that information). Plus, when hiking I'm usually focused on tracking long climbs or descents. If I know I have to go up 1000 feet, I can track that whether or not I calibrated my watch.
Unfortunately you cannot buy the PAW500-1V anymore. I think it has a very good combination of features for the price, especially on Amazon. You'll probably have to spend a lot more money to get the same features, but I would expect all Casio altimeters to share similar accuracy.
theoilman
09-05-2014, 11:11
My Garmin etrex Vista HCx (birthday present) never goes on the AT - too heavy and not necessary. It can eat batteries: 2 AA Duracell coppertops last 2 days of hiking, but the new Duracell red batteries are much better at 4+ days of hiking.
Hiking outside the USA though it is a necessary tool.
Or AT in winter with snow!
I have a Casio PAW-1300. It is solar powered and resets the time via an atomic clock. I have no complaints. It does exactly what I expect it to do.
peakbagger
09-05-2014, 16:33
I generally buy whatever altitude watch is on sale at Campmor. The latest brands were High Gear. The numbers on the displays tend to be larger. As for accuracy, they are within 10 feet if the weather is stable.
Another Kevin
09-05-2014, 17:01
I've done some hiking along with people who carry a GPS. Although the GPS doesn't need recalibrating every day, I've found that pressure based altitude readings are more accurate than the GPS is in the mountains. I don't know why, but the GPS is often more than 100 feet off where as a pressure based altimeter reading is usually within 40 feet by the end of the day when calibrated in the morning. This is based on going from one known elevation to another known elevation.
Unless you have one spacecraft nearly overhead, you're unlikely to get a good altitude fix from GPS. In order to tell whether you've got a good altitude fix, you need to learn to read some of the stranger numbers (Error, DOP, HDOP, VDOP) on the GPS display. Once you know how to read them, you'll realize that GPS altitude is wonky more often than not. Higher-end GPS units (for example, the Garmin eTrex 30, but not the 20 or 10) have barometric altimeters to keep track of altitude that are calibrated against the GPS sporadically when the signal is clean and the fix is good. My smartphone supposedly has a barometric altimeter as well, but somehow Location Services still returns wonky elevations, so I use the barometer in my wristwatch instead.
I tend to calibrate at peaks and lake shores, because topo maps give the elevations of peaks and the water levels of lakes. On bushwhacks, I'm pretty careful to keep calibrated, because that way I can use contour lines as backstops/catching features. Unless the weather is changing rapidly, as in hurricane season, you can get away with recalibrating every few hours.
What Another Kevin said has been generally my experience with GPS units offering, at times, very dubious altitude readings but I have limited experiences using high end GPS. Having accurate altitude readings is very important to me in my navigational experiences because I routinely depend on gathering information from altitude, compass direction, and topos. Having multiple sensors on an altimeter watch, I think, generally makes for more accurate readings. Some of the more advanced, reliable, and accurate, as well as more expensive altimeter watches have multiple sensors or very accurate ones. Plus knowing barometric pressure factors into knowing other things like incoming weather. Having altitude readings that are off by 100's of ft, while sometimes not a big deal, can be a very big deal in some conditions like in the mountains, while relying on accurate altitude readings for some types of navigational conditions, etc.
Another Kevin
09-05-2014, 17:42
Plus knowing barometric pressure factors into knowing other things like incoming weather. Having altitude readings that are off by 100's of ft, while sometimes not a big deal, can be a very big deal in some conditions like in the mountains, while relying on accurate altitude readings for some types of navigational conditions, etc.
By the same token, noticing that your altimeter has read 100 ft high the last couple of times you corrected it indicates that the barometric pressure is dropping rapidly - which presages bad weather. If you're out for a few days and you don't carry an AM radio, that and looking at the sky may be the best forecasting you have.
Some watches give a digital graphic displaying rain, cloudy skies, sunny, etc in the near forecast for you based on barometric pressure but good pt AK. Something I didn't immediately think about!
Wülfgang
09-05-2014, 18:33
I also have an SGW-400H. Decent watch. It does need to be calibrated at the start of each hike, and at least once at a known interval throughout the day. I find it to be accurate to within 100 ft of the notated altitude on a topo. If a storm or front is blowing in, it will screw up the altitude, like any barometer watch.
I think it is a useful tool for the price. I don't have a need for a super-accurate altimeter watch, and I'm not sure the cost/benefit ratio would be worth it. Recalibration takes about 10 seconds.
One of he reasons why I said to think beforehand about how you'll use a altimeter/compass/barometer/temp/etc watch and the possible drawbacks before making your choice, is, as I experienced, some altimeter watches can be more complex in use and in features perhaps providing features that the user may not use or want yet require going through menus, buttons, etc.
Shutterbug
09-05-2014, 19:51
Some watches give a digital graphic displaying rain, cloudy skies, sunny, etc in the near forecast for you based on barometric pressure but good pt AK. Something I didn't immediately think about!
I use the Garmin Fenix which includes gps. The only complaint is battery life. With all the features turned on, the battery only lasts six hours. I usually hike longer than that. I carry a battery pack that permits me to recharge the Garmin, but I have to take it off my arm to recharge. I can still use it while it is recharging, but the recharge attachment won't fit when I am wearing the watch.
Another Kevin
09-05-2014, 22:31
I also have an SGW-400H. ... I think it is a useful tool for the price. I don't have a need for a super-accurate altimeter watch, and I'm not sure the cost/benefit ratio would be worth it. Recalibration takes about 10 seconds.
It's pretty much as accurate as any other altimeter. A breeze blowing by can mess up an altimeter reading by 20 feet, so the fancy ones are just wasted precision. They all have to be set every few hours. (The ones with GPS on board will sometimes do that for you. I consider that a poor feature: if GPS is wonky, they carry the wonky readout over into the barometer. No, thank you.)
I use the Garmin Fenix which includes gps. The only complaint is battery life. With all the features turned on, the battery only lasts six hours. I usually hike longer than that. I carry a battery pack that permits me to recharge the Garmin, but I have to take it off my arm to recharge. I can still use it while it is recharging, but the recharge attachment won't fit when I am wearing the watch.
I've had my current Casio over a year. I haven't had to change the battery yet. GPS is power-hungry. A barometer, not so much.
Woof Shaven
11-24-2014, 20:44
A GPS with a Barometric Pressure sensor - That’s a nice feature if your into weather prediction or wish more accurate elevation readings. If you know your altitude you can calibrate for barometric pressure. If you know your barometric pressure you can calibrate for altitude or elevation. GPS is capable of doing elevation on its own, however the aviation industry still relies upon barometric pressure to fly with.
A good book compiled in 1879 by Rear-Admiral Fitzroy, F.R.S. titled “Barometer and Weather Guide” which may now be a free Kindle Book; is a great way to learn how to predict weather.
Taking that a step further (barometric pressure) and going off your watch request topic a bit, and spinning the clock back to the 1970s. One of the must have pieces of kit for that back-in-the-day was a “Thommen Altimeter” used by professional mountaineers, cartographers, and geologists. It’s mechanical jeweled instrument just like a fine pocket watch and about the same size too. No batteries required. You can still pick these things up on the the big Internet auction web sites for a reasonable price. They were built to last a lifetime. Complete your kit with a Gfeller leather case, these can still be purchased new, and you will be looking smart, and knowing exactly what the barometric pressure is for your current elevation or you’ll know exactly what your current elevation is for your current barometric pressure. You can read either measurement right off the dial. Make a weather prediction. You should be able to do that if your GPS is equipped with a barometric pressure feature and let those Thommens stay out there in the wilds of Ebay for collectors like me.
Coming back to the topic I like this piece of eye-candy, but I can't afford it.
http://www.gshock.com/watches/Master_of_G/GWN1000B-1B
colorado_rob
11-25-2014, 09:37
Because of all the climbing we do, wearing an altimeter is a very useful tool. I used the Suunto Vector for 10-12 years (actually two of them, long story), finally destroyed my latest one wearing it in a hot springs because the waterproof seal had gone bad, decided to try out the much cheaper Casio Sgw300, probably very similar to those already mentioned, and I couldn't be happier because it seems to be actually more accurate than my old fancy-schmancy Suunto, plus it's smaller and cheaper ($60 vs. $160). I've had it well over a year now on its original battery, in fact, I wear it nearly all the time for my regular watch.
For complicated routes, we use a GPS and hence have a fairly accurate elevation available, but as mentioned, GPS units eat juice fairly quickly, and it sure is nice having a quick elevation ready off this Casio. Sure, it has to be calibrated at known elevations now and then, but this is trivially easy and quick, and even with weather changes, the accuracy seems good enough.
My old Suunto used to drift low when climbing, no matter what, meaning we'd start a climb, say, at 10,000' and by the time we'd get to 14,000, it would read low by about 300', or about 7%. I finally think I figured out why: atmospheric pressure profiles vary somewhat by latitude; if you're climbing in Colorado at 39 degree of latitude vs. climbing in Alaska at 56 degrees of latitude your pressure change will be quite different. When we did climb in Alaska a couple times my Suunto seemed to not drift low, nor did it drift as badly in northern WA (Cascades range). Well, the Suunto is made in Finland, a very high latitude place, so maybe, just maybe it's programmed profile likes northern latitudes better. Not sure where the Casio is made (or designed), but I suspect at a lower latitude because it doesn't seem to drift on a steady-weather day.
So, sure, people whine all the time about the inaccuracies of altimeters, but my Casio does a fine job given the obvious limitations of the fact that at any given altitude, barometric pressure changes frequently. I find the Casio very useful and accurate enough compared to the nearly-always accurate GPS.