View Full Version : The Business of Escapism
Check it out... Good or bad?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/on-leadership/the-business-of-escapism-means-that-roughing-it-in-the-outdoors-is-now-optional/2014/09/05/ae5db78c-3396-11e4-a723-fa3895a25d02_story.html
Tipi Walter
09-08-2014, 15:59
Cost for guiding me on my trips? $0.00. I guide myself.
10 nights of lodging costs? Not gonna happen.
Backpacking is one of the least consuming things a typical American consumer can do. Example: On a recent 24 day trip I bought nothing, used no utilities like town water or electricity, left no carbon footprint except for the short drive in (and from the actual gear used), tuned into no TV, and started out with a dollar and ended the trip with the same dollar.
Of course before the trip I had to purchase the food needed, and the initial gear purchases---afterwhich every trip is nearly free cost-wise. What other lifestyle can a person do for 24 days and not need money? All Hail therefore the Humpage of a righteous pack into the back of beyond.
One of the reasons I opted for Colorado this year rather than adding a hike onto my trip to Europe is that I wanted more of a wilderness experience. As amazing as the alps obviously are, I didn't like the idea of staying in lodging every night, or pushing the limits of the law with "wild camping". It is the same reason I'm not sure if I want to walk the Camino. But I'm sure this type of trip is great for many people and if that's how they want to get outdoors it is better than not going at all. Also, in the back of my mind, I'm thinking that I might save my trekking in Europe for when I'm older and may not want to (or be able to) do self sufficient backpacking anymore, although I hope I can backpack indefinitely!
Coffee, that's my thinking too. When I'm older, if I'm lucky enough to get old, is when I want to do the Camino type trekking. While I'm able I'd like to hike more wilderness hikes. I already know having hiked the AT and PCT that I will not be able to rest until I add the CDT to the list.
Also liked your comment about the "Little Triple Crown".
rocketsocks
09-08-2014, 16:15
There's several issues going on here that may be of importance to the hiking community and others as I see it. One is large companies promoting, packaging and selling the great outdoors as a commodity, this is exploitation for profit...period! Another, is people (Yup, me included) like to collect and categorize things, it's innate. Even on these boards we collect locations we've been, post the pictures, and write up stories of the trip, often following up with our next intent of destination. Part of the problem as I see it is to obtain all this does not require discipline, only money, and there fore the due responsibility may not be in place when people travel into the back country. probably the best way to combat this is to fix injustice where injustice is, reminding those we see making backwoods faux pas that "Hey, that's not the way we do it" it's up to all of us to take care of the great outdoors and if as the article suggest there is to be a large influx of hikers in and around the places we hike, then now is the time to protect, suggest, and serve, not turn tail and go find another sport cause this one just ain't the same anymore...tha'd be a cop out.
I already know having hiked the AT and PCT that I will not be able to rest until I add the CDT to the list.
I have yet to thru hike any of the three long trails and for a while I've been struggling with whether to attempt a thru hike of the AT or PCT first. But I have to say that after hiking several hundred miles of the CDT that overlaps with the Colorado Trail that I have the CDT in the back of my mind as well. Part of me wanted to turn left as the CDT finally diverged from the CT and made its way toward New Mexico. There's something about hiking on the Continental Divide for miles, all the endless views, and accepting the inevitable risks of exposure that I both feared at times but ultimately learned to enjoy.
I'm still leaning toward the PCT next year but could end up opting for the AT ... but I definitely want to either thru hike the CDT someday or maybe do it in long sections. I know I would want to team up with someone in grizzly country which also adds to the logistical issues.
Check it out... Good or bad? Probably neither good nor bad and possibly falls under "Hike your own Hike"?
Tahoe Rim Assc does a thru hike for $1650. https://www.tahoerimtrail.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=358&Itemid=302
It didn't appeal to me, but my husband really wanted me to do it. Pretty much begged me to do it. I think that the group hikes appeal to a) people with fear of the unknown (like some kind of stranger danger phobia) and/or b) people who REALLY like group activities.
Every so often I'll say, "See how much money I saved you?!?!?!" :)
Starchild
09-08-2014, 18:46
Cost for guiding me on my trips? $0.00. I guide myself.
10 nights of lodging costs? Not gonna happen.
Backpacking is one of the least consuming things a typical American consumer can do. Example: On a recent 24 day trip I bought nothing, used no utilities like town water or electricity, left no carbon footprint except for the short drive in (and from the actual gear used), tuned into no TV, and started out with a dollar and ended the trip with the same dollar.
Of course before the trip I had to purchase the food needed, and the initial gear purchases---afterwhich every trip is nearly free cost-wise. What other lifestyle can a person do for 24 days and not need money? All Hail therefore the Humpage of a righteous pack into the back of beyond.
I do think we way overstate our 'independence' from society when we state thing like this and tend to forget that our trip into the woods is a result of interdependency on each other and we are using ever depleted resources that we obtained as a result of a interconnected society that allows us the illusion of self sufficiency.
Wow did I type that :)
Tahoe Rim Assc does a thru hike for $1650. https://www.tahoerimtrail.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=358&Itemid=302
...
Every so often I'll say, "See how much money I saved you?!?!?!" :) Wow. Not counting the transportation costs to/from LA, I think I spent about $120 when I hiked the TRT in back in june which included $25 at the pizza place in Tahoe City to celebrate the 1/2 way point. Even if the guided trip has more luxuary, that's a big mark up.
Sarcasm the elf
09-08-2014, 19:36
I tried to read the whole article but couldn't, this line sent my B.S. meter off the charts and I had to step away.
Americans now spend $646 billion annually on outdoor recreation and related purchases (as comparison, that’s roughly what they spend on pharmaceuticals and vehicles combined), according to the Outdoor Industry Association
rocketsocks
09-08-2014, 19:40
I tried to read the whole article but couldn't, this line sent my B.S. meter off the charts and I had to step away.
really...I'd even say $6.46 Billion would be a lot....that's a lot of dough by any standard...someone screwd the pooch on that stat.
Have a look.. the number is here: http://outdoorindustry.org/pdf/OIA_OutdoorRecEconomyReport2012.pdf
I tried to read the whole article but couldn't, this line sent my B.S. meter off the charts and I had to step away.
i have to agree.
Looking quickly, seems they count such things as ski vacations with the corresponding lift fees, condo rentals and meals. ("Trips and travel related spending").
Heck motorcycles are listed as part of outdoor rec, too. All how you cook the numbers.
"The annual Sturgis Motorcycle Rally generates more than $800 million in economic activity to the region from an estimated 417,000 visitors who stay an average of nearly six days."
While I have no doubt that Sturgis generates that much revenue, we may as well call music festivals outdoor activities too. Technically speaking...yeah, but.... ;)
Wonder if the dining industry also uses the same cooked figures to show how "going out to eat is a vital part of the economy" e.g. all those people at Sturgis spending 8$00 million are really part of the "going to eat" equivalent PDF being bantered about on foodie boards. :)
So the outdoor industry is what? REI, backcountry.com, and zPacks? :)
Sarcasm the elf
09-08-2014, 20:10
Have a look.. the number is here: http://outdoorindustry.org/pdf/OIA_OutdoorRecEconomyReport2012.pdf
I saw the link in the article, i just don't believe them. $646BN equates to roughly $2,150 per year for every man, woman and child in the country. Either their definition of outdoor recreation is absurdly broad, or the figure is a fabrication. Either way, it is deliberately misleading for the author to have quoted that number in an article which portrays it as the amount that people spend on adventure trips. The industry report linked above is awash with photos of backpackers and mountaineers, kayakers and cyclists, but there's no way these groups or the REI crowd are generating that sort of cash stream.
Sarcasm the elf
09-08-2014, 20:16
Apologies for sidetracking thread by the way.
I did find the main point of the article (discussing luxury adventure trips) to be interesting. I generally support anything that gets people outdoors and active, what the author described about the REI group sounded something like ultra high end slack packing, so I wonder if it's really that different than what many people already do on the A.T., albeit more expensive. I just hope that the course makes an attempt to also teach people the skills needed for them to get out independently, should they so choose.
So the outdoor industry is what? REI, backcountry.com, and zPacks? :)
Obviouisly, more than that.
However, can you honestly say a Sturgis bike rally, and its 800 million dollars, is part of the Outdoor industry?
If so, I thought CO had certain substances that were legal and not TN! :D
As Elf said, they have an absurdly broad definition of what the "outdoor industry" may be.
Ski lift passes? Absolutely! Sure.
People in Vail buying a $200 bottle of wine later at night? Er..not so much.
Obviouisly, more than that.
However, can you honestly say a Sturgis bike rally, and its 800 million dollars, is part of the Outdoor industry?
If so, I thought CO had certain substances that were legal and not TN! :D
As Elf said, they have an absurdly broad definition of what the "outdoor industry" may be.
Ski lift passes? Absolutely! Sure.
People in Vail buying a $200 bottle of wine later at night? Er..not so much.
I get what you're saying - really. But would the $200 bottle of wine have been sold if the person who came to town to rent a condo and ski wasn't there to buy it?
A smaller example is Erwin. When hikers come through they spend money at locally owned businesses who look forward to hiker season like a kid looking forward to Christmas and those businesses aren't even remotely related to hiking the AT - Rocky's Pizza for instance.
So maybe I'm confusing this with tourism vs. outdoor industry I guess.
US Gross Domestic Product is in the ballpark of $17 trillion, meaning that if $646 billion is spent on outdoor recreation each year, Americans are spending nearly 4% of GDP in that category. This is not plausible. According to figures from the census bureau that came up in a quick google search, household expenditures on the broader "recreation and culture" is trending around 6.5% of GDP:
https://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2011/tables/11s1402.pdf
This is a far broader categorization (see the PDF) with outdoor recreation being a subset. There is no way that in a nation largely made up of couch potatoes that nearly 2/3 of this broad category is spent of what most of us would consider to be outdoor recreation.
rocketsocks
09-08-2014, 20:41
So maybe I'm confusing this with tourism vs. outdoor industry I guess.I don't think it is you who are confusing it, but rather the OAI, seems to be a lot of emphasis on millennial consumerism and marketing hoopla for a changing market...just from a quick peruse of their website. I just think those numbers are inflated a wee bit.
http://outdoorindustry.org/research/trends.php
rocketsocks
09-08-2014, 20:44
just seems like they are trying to insert themselves into a market to become the go to for all outdoor recreation...a sale pitch is the way it reads to me.
So maybe I'm confusing this with tourism vs. outdoor industry I guess.
Bingo.....
Outdoor recreation is a sub-set of that population.
Lots of $200 bottles of wine being bought in Vail. And quite a few are there BECAUSE of the ski industry...but aren't necessarily skiing. The ski industry made Vail a destination place in its own right. Aspen may be an even better example. (I am more the Two-buck chuck than the $200 bottle of wine kinda guy! Ha!)
As I said, it all depends on how you cook the books.
johnnybgood
09-08-2014, 21:35
I don't think it is you who are confusing it, but rather the OAI, seems to be a lot of emphasis on millennial consumerism and marketing hoopla for a changing market...just from a quick peruse of their website. I just think those numbers are inflated a wee bit.
http://outdoorindustry.org/research/trends.php
This entire column is misleading and is not indicative of how many outdoor enthusiasts enjoy their pursuit of escapism. Yeah, the confusion and liberal definition of "outdoor industry" inflates the numbers and doesn't represent how inexpensive backpacking really can be.
rocketsocks
09-08-2014, 22:05
This entire column is misleading and is not indicative of how many outdoor enthusiasts enjoy their pursuit of escapism. Yeah, the confusion and liberal definition of "outdoor industry" inflates the numbers and doesn't represent how inexpensive backpacking really can be.
...especially if one dirt bags and deals, pretty cheap activity really. That what appeals to me...not flying off to Patagonia and writing off the ten martini lunches I had planning the trip for a year...although that sounds pretty fun. :D
...especially if one dirt bags and deals, pretty cheap activity really. That what appeals to me...not flying off to Patagonia and writing off the ten martini lunches I had planning the trip for a year...although that sounds pretty fun. :D
I once spent three days/ two nights in Ashville NC drinking craft beer and deciding which materials to include in a MYOG bivy... (and took a bath in the French Broad) :)
rocketsocks
09-08-2014, 22:28
I once spent three days/ two nights in Ashville NC drinking craft beer and deciding which materials to include in a MYOG bivy... (and took a bath in the French Broad) :)Some where in there is a write off...I'm just sure of it! :D
Leanthree
09-09-2014, 00:39
My takeaway from the article:
If anyone wants to spend a ton of money on any pursuit, I am not one to get in their way. If they didn't spend their money on a super high tech hiking t-shirt, they would just spend it on more expensive booze or an extra sq ft on their house or something else that is relatively useless. If you have $3,000 to spend on the week of your dreams, then feel free. I spent ~$350.
The issue is that people see all these people spending a ton of money and think they have to as well.
My takeaway from the article:
If anyone wants to spend a ton of money on any pursuit, I am not one to get in their way. If they didn't spend their money on a super high tech hiking t-shirt, they would just spend it on more expensive booze or an extra sq ft on their house or something else that is relatively useless. If you have $3,000 to spend on the week of your dreams, then feel free. I spent ~$350.
The issue is that people see all these people spending a ton of money and think they have to as well.
Your a regular Mathmatician... Go Hike. Pinecones A'Wait'in
JohnnySnook
09-09-2014, 05:11
Do they add in fishing / boating into the numbers also? If so I can see the these number helping out big time. Owning a boat over 25 ft up to and 90 footer can rack up some big numbers. I know from fishing on a 25 ft'er we could spend a $1000 just on fuel. On a big sport fish the cost just for fuel can be 20x that number. Add in gear, crew food etc. it can be crazy the money people spend to fish.
They rich will spend whatever it takes to say they completed a journey. If that means 10 people carry food, tents, ice, booze, and a few H@@Ker$ it really doesn't matter to them as long as they can brag to their friends saying the completed the mission.
Pedaling Fool
09-09-2014, 08:45
I'm sorry, but I just can't get past the fact that the author is talking about hiking in Europe, but focusing on hiking in America... WT...:confused:
It's always been my impression that much of the hiking in Europe is more of an inn-to-inn hiking, like here http://www.innwalking.com/default.aspx?lang=1&mid=-1
If you're going to report on American hiking, then hike in America....:rolleyes:
BTW, I also agree that the $646 billon figure is way too broad. There is something definitely wrong with this comparison from the article: "(as comparison, that’s roughly what they spend on pharmaceuticals and vehicles combined)..."
rocketsocks
09-09-2014, 08:47
I don't think it is you who are confusing it, but rather the OAI, seems to be a lot of emphasis on millennial consumerism and marketing hoopla for a changing market...just from a quick peruse of their website. I just think those numbers are inflated a wee bit.
http://outdoorindustry.org/research/trends.php
Accessible: Living in urban environments with limited leisure time, many of today’s consumers want easy outdoor experiences they can integrate into their daily lives. This is driving the need for brands and retailers to bring outdoor to where consumers are and provide accessible opportunities for them to engage in outdoor experiences that require less effort on their part.
Experiential: Millennials want stories to tell and embrace brands that can be an authentic part of that story. The shift away from transactions and selling to relationships and experiences is forcing businesses to define and tell their brand story, beyond the products they sell, in order to be relevant and authentic to these consumers
.
I'm sorry, but I just can't get past the fact that the author is talking about hiking in Europe, but focusing on hiking in America... WT...:confused:
It's always been my impression that much of the hiking in Europe is more of an inn-to-inn hiking, like here http://www.innwalking.com/default.aspx?lang=1&mid=-1
Definitely very different from everything I have read. The kind of camping we take for granted - pitching a tent pretty much anywhere in the backcountry with a few common sense limitations - is not something one can take for granted in Europe. I researched a number of hikes in Switzerland over the past year and all of them warned that "wild camping" is either illegal or discouraged but -- wink, wink -- many do it anyway. Well, bending the law in a country where I'm not a citizen and can't speak the language isn't something I was interested in, nor was I thrilled about staying indoors every night. I like hostels but maybe one night out of seven, not every night! So it is a different experience not all that relevant to the US.
Another Kevin
09-09-2014, 09:42
I suspect that with "outdoor chic" being something I see around town - look at all the North Face gear that's worn by people who never get outside farther than the parking lot - that the clothing industry also pads the number.
A sanity check: what are my numbers like?
Well, I'm not quite as ascetic as some of the people around here. On an upcoming 15-16 day hike, I plan four nights in cheap inns. I want to take full zeroes at two of the four road crossings on the route. The first one, my wife will come up to visit, so why not book the second night? The second one, there are no really good campsites close to the village, because the trail is on an easement across private property for a few miles to the north and in a swamp for a few miles to the south. There's a posted campsite in the swamp about a mile-and-a-half south, but the latest reports I've got tell me that the beavers have flooded it. And if I have to hike five miles or more to get to a decent spot to pitch, that's no longer a zero. :) It just so happens that both zero days might be Sundays, so I might curry favour with the innkeepers by asking where they worship. (I've found that in small-town America, the Lord rewards that sort of behaviour handsomely, and even blesses the hiker that follows me with His good will!)
I'm making a concession to modernity by bringing my smartphone along - with extra batteries. I don't expect a signal, but the phone is a GPS, a backup camera, enough light for me to change headlamp batteries, and has field guides to birds, trees and wildflowers on it. But I've warned my colleagues that I will be entirely incommunicado, as in "if you need me, send search dogs. You ain't gonna find me otherwise."
I haven't been on a trip with a paid guide since my teens. My gear is a weird mix ranging from high-end stuff to Salvation Army specials.
For me to spend nearly as much on hiking as the article says the average American does, I think you'd have to do things like impute the depreciation on my car. (Which is ridiculous. If I weren't hiking, I'd be driving somewhere else. And I'd have the four-wheeler anyway, because we get snow here.) And I surely do more "outdoor recreation" than the average American!
So, I'm with the Elf - the article is a load of hooey, even if the travelogue is kind of nice. I wonder whose stock the author is touting?
Traveler
09-09-2014, 14:42
Going places to hike can be expensive or cheap, depending how one travels. When I was 20, I hitched rides with a thumb out and live in state parks so I could go spend a set of weekends with a week in between in the Cascade Mountains. That costs a couple hundred bucks for food and fees. Or, I can fly in there today, rent a car to have ultimate flexibility in trail selections and different terrain and spend a couple grand. Its all in scale of comfort and what you want to do.
European adventures typically don't allow a lot of camping out, its between Inns, which allow light pack loads and luggage management/personal transportation to trail heads to be organized. I've no issue with that at all. Even here in the States where you can camp a bit easier and soften that cost. Its more difficult to get into the back country here, that requires work, and you rarely see the rollerbags in Wilderness areas, or those who prefer those types of relaxed hiking holidays.
As said before, HYOH, if you want spartan be a minimalist, if you want the comfort, employ the means to do that. Every foot of trail walks the same, its the start and end point of the day that changes.
I plan to thru hike the AT when I retire, hopefully in 6 years. I would like to find someone to follow me in a car, or maybe even a small RV, and resupply me every 2-3 days. Maybe have a portable shower available. The problem is finding someone both reliable and willing to do this for the price I am able/willing to pay. As I doubt I would offer the same service to someone else for the price I am able/willing to pay I'm not sure I should even be asking.
So for the OP, I see no problem with people taking luxury hikes or other vacations if that's what they want and they can afford them.
rocketsocks
09-09-2014, 16:33
I've paid somebody to climb with me, to take me on a boat deep sea fishin' and horse back ridin'. *I could care less how folks spend their disposable income. Just glad I'm proficient enough to not need a guide to hike...cause I ain't gots the dough no mo.