View Full Version : Benefits of tarp tenting?
TREKMAN001
09-25-2014, 13:20
OK, first post ever... I am interested in tarping it. I have have slept under my rain fly a few times, having left the tent portion at home. I have been looking at a couple of tarp setups, but can find very little difference in weight between tarps and tents. For the full bug/weather coverage of a tent, why would someone switch to a tarp? What am I missing here? Should I just stick with my 1.5# fly, or invest in a real tarp? (and no, I am not interested in a hammock) Thanks for the responses, and thanks to WhiteBlaze for all of the info provided over the last six months of lurking here!http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/icons/icon6.png
Sure you don't want to hammock? Visit hammockforums... are you sure??? Could I interest you in trail runners then? :) With that out of the way....
I too am moving towards tarps and floorless shelters and the reason I'm doing that is because over the next few years most of my long distance hiking will be out west where a shelter system has (to me anyway) some advantages over tenting - namely being able to sleep under the stars in a bivy or just have a more open shelter. I like the open feel of a tarp much better than being closed up in a tent.
I carried a TarpTent Contrail on the PCT and used it for a $250 groundsheet a heck of a lot more often than I slept in it. My tarp/bivy weighs less and packs smaller.
HooKooDooKu
09-25-2014, 13:32
You must not be looking at expensive enough tarps.
You should be able to find a suitable tarp that weights less than 1lb and then use trees and hiking poles to support it.
You're not going to find much in the way of tents that weight less than 1lb.
I did a solo 475 mile hike (VA) with only a Gatewood Cape. It was a good experience even sitting through some very violent storms including one with very heavy rain and nearby tornados. Can't beat the weight (1 lb) and you can also use it as a poncho. I just used a tyvek sheet for a ground cloth.
TREKMAN001
09-25-2014, 13:53
I think I am just going to have to invest more than I wanted to, to get a "proper" tarp... I love my one man tent, buy I am getting tired of hauling the three+ pounds for tent, fly and poles. I am definetly a weekend warrior, but I have the AT in my sights... and another year or two, who knows! I am getting my kit togehter now.
Feral Bill
09-25-2014, 14:01
An 8x10 plain (also plane:)) silnylon tarp, ground cloth, line, pegs and bug net would be under two pounds and be very roomy and airy. You gain versatility (leave the netting home outside bug season) and can sleep two if needed.
I think I am just going to have to invest more than I wanted to, to get a "proper" tarp... I love my one man tent, buy I am getting tired of hauling the three+ pounds for tent, fly and poles. I am definetly a weekend warrior, but I have the AT in my sights... and another year or two, who knows! I am getting my kit togehter now.
I just bought a Zpacks duplex tarp and bathtub floor. The total weight is 14 oz. it's the same as their tent except without the netting. I'm convinced that netting isn't needed. This tarp has doors on both sides and closes off pretty well, except for the 6" high opening all around at the bottom.
I think I am just going to have to invest more than I wanted to, to get a "proper" tarp... I love my one man tent, buy I am getting tired of hauling the three+ pounds for tent, fly and poles. I am definetly a weekend warrior, but I have the AT in my sights... and another year or two, who knows! I am getting my kit togehter now.
In an effort to transition from tent to tarp system, you could do a tarp/bivy combo. Tarp from 6.5' x 10' from Bear Paw and bivy from Borah Gear would be under $200 for ~19oz setup. The bivy will give you splash and bug protection.
saltysack
09-25-2014, 16:27
Sure you don't want to hammock? Visit hammockforums... are you sure??? Could I interest you in trail runners then? :) With that out of the way....
I too am moving towards tarps and floorless shelters and the reason I'm doing that is because over the next few years most of my long distance hiking will be out west where a shelter system has (to me anyway) some advantages over tenting - namely being able to sleep under the stars in a bivy or just have a more open shelter. I like the open feel of a tarp much better than being closed up in a tent.
I carried a TarpTent Contrail on the PCT and used it for a $250 groundsheet a heck of a lot more often than I slept in it. My tarp/bivy weighs less and packs smaller.
What tarp did u go with?
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You must not be looking at expensive enough tarps.
You should be able to find a suitable tarp that weights less than 1lb and then use trees and hiking poles to support it.
You're not going to find much in the way of tents that weight less than 1lb.
Agree with HooKooDooKu.
The main advantage is the weight savings. Yet having a very adaptable shelter system, connecting more with the surrounding environment, and the extra floor space shouldn't be overlooked either. Also I prefer the floorless aspect of a tarp because of my canine companion - I never have to fear over him damaging anything.
Good luck in your search.
saltysack
09-25-2014, 16:35
Agree with HooKooDooKu.
The main advantage is the weight savings. Yet having a very adaptable shelter system, connecting more with the surrounding environment, and the extra floor space shouldn't be overlooked either. Also I prefer the floorless aspect of a tarp because of my canine companion - I never have to fear over him damaging anything.
Good luck in your search.
I also hike w my dog and worry about ticks with out a floor ....
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I also hike w my dog and worry about ticks with out a floor ....
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Oh Saltysack... how you bait this poor woman with your dog comments, knowing by now that they're irresistible. :p
Your concern is valid. However a floor won't protect your dog from tics while you're hiking or when you're taking a rest break. Having a great flea/tick treatment, bug repellant, and a daily exercise of inspecting/removing tics is my best tactic. To each his/her own. ;)
saltysack
09-25-2014, 17:58
Oh Saltysack... how you bait this poor woman with your dog comments, knowing by now that they're irresistible. :p
Your concern is valid. However a floor won't protect your dog from tics while you're hiking or when you're taking a rest break. Having a great flea/tick treatment, bug repellant, and a daily exercise of inspecting/removing tics is my best tactic. To each his/her own. ;)
Yep... I also don't want bugs crawling on me at night either... Yep he's on next guard, spray his jacket w permethrin also
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mattjv89
09-25-2014, 17:59
I think I am just going to have to invest more than I wanted to, to get a "proper" tarp... I love my one man tent, buy I am getting tired of hauling the three+ pounds for tent, fly and poles. I am definetly a weekend warrior, but I have the AT in my sights... and another year or two, who knows! I am getting my kit togehter now.
You shouldn't really have to invest a lot in a "proper" tarp unless you go with cuben fiber which I sure wouldn't recommend if you've never tried tarping before, who knows if you'll like it and if you don't that is one expensive learning experience. Tarps do have a steeper learning curve with the setup than perhaps any other shelter, though you already know that you like the open air there is a whole lot more thought and adjustment required to the setup than you're currently experiencing with pitching your rain fly. It takes a lot of practice to get a drum-tight wind resistant pitch and a whole lot more to do it quick. I am currently right in between those categories and I will say, if you are up for the practice it is very satisfying to pitch a perfect shape and get a nice bass note when you twang on the ridge guylines.
As far as cost goes you should be able to pick up a 14-15 oz. 8x10 silnylon tarp for around $100 from about anyone who makes them. I'm happy with mine from Bearpaw Wilderness Designs, and as a small bonus they are one of the only cottage makers I know of that seam seals everything for you at no additional charge. Now the cost of the bug net will vary widely depending on how light you want it to be. a 12-16oz model could be had for $100-120. If you want to go a little lighter the Zpacks Hexanet bug tent is 9oz. for $195. That has the addition of a bathtub floor which I highly recommend in whatever model you choose, these are pretty important for tarping in wet areas. Most, if not all regularly used tent sites where you might pitch your tarp are slightly concave from years of being compacted and will pool with water in a heavy rain. Without a bathtub floor that water will run right in and soak the bottom of your bag. You can get around this but it requires some great site selection skills and often few places to pitch in a wooded area that has dense brush at spots other than the established sites.
bangorme
09-25-2014, 19:12
I just bought a Zpacks duplex tarp and bathtub floor. The total weight is 14 oz. it's the same as their tent except without the netting. I'm convinced that netting isn't needed. This tarp has doors on both sides and closes off pretty well, except for the 6" high opening all around at the bottom.
Don't come to Maine except in the early spring or fall. That will change your mind about the netting.
What tarp did u go with?
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Duomid but I'm spending more time with my Oware Catbird tarp at the moment.
saltysack
09-25-2014, 20:22
Too many choices....was really leaning toward lightheart solong6 but now I'm at a loss...not sure about my burrowing jack Russell in a tarp..
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garlic08
09-25-2014, 22:39
Using a Tarptent Contrail without a ground sheet is a good, cost-effective 1.5 pound solution for me. It's not as versatile as the tarp/bug net/ground sheet set-up, but I really don't care. The Tarptent is very simple, quick to pitch, and rugged. And it even works fine as a $200 ground sheet many nights. The benefit of a tarptent for me is mainly about bugs, after a fun night of fighting ants and waking up staring a scorpion in the eyes on one trip. And that's not even counting New England in black fly season, or the Sierra during the mosquito hatch.
Don't come to Maine except in the early spring or fall. That will change your mind about the netting.
This tarp can be pitched with the bottom edge right on the ground, virtually enclosing the interior.
TREKMAN001
09-26-2014, 10:54
I will say, if you are up for the practice it is very satisfying to pitch a perfect shape and get a nice bass note when you twang on the ridge guylines.
I tend to look at backpacking this way: Every outing is an adventure for me. Whether it is terrain, new gear, no gear, weather, or whatever. I look forward to experimenting with all of my gear. The holidays are coming, and Santa will be delivering some goodies! In the meantime, I will use my fly more... I also make alot of my own gear, does anyone know of a reputable, inexpensive source for sylnylon?
BTW the people on this website rock! Even the trolls have their own personality! Thanks for all of your replies.
Guy.
Firesong
09-27-2014, 21:57
You can get excellent priced ripstop, down and silnylon from here:
http://ripstopbytheroll.com
No complaints at all.
squeezebox
09-27-2014, 23:13
I bought a Copper Spur 2 recently, and the poles weight around a pound. The fly probably isn't a whole lot less material than an 8x10 tarp. If you add the wt. of a hammock. I bet you're talking maybe 1 lb wt savings. My tent is fairly bug proof, and more resistant to blowing wind/rain, better in very cold weather.
Go to a seed house 1 or such and I bet the wt. difference disappears .
I'm a side sleeper and can not sleep on my back.
Sleeping pad 1 lb.
under quilt not much different.
hammock can set up on unlevel ground but not in some ones back yard.
To me a tarp sounds like more trouble than it's worth.
MHO
bangorme
09-28-2014, 10:26
[QUOTE=squeezebox;1911303
To me a tarp sounds like more trouble than it's worth.
MHO[/QUOTE]
This is another case where minimalist posters are overstating the advantages of tarps, and downplaying the disadvantages. This gets inexperienced backpackers into trouble. Tarps have ONE advantage: weight. They have LOTS of downside to them (and the smaller they are, the more disadvantages), and IMHO should be used in non-challenging situations until you are an expert in their use.
Tipi Walter
09-28-2014, 10:38
This is another case where minimalist posters are overstating the advantages of tarps, and downplaying the disadvantages. This gets inexperienced backpackers into trouble. Tarps have ONE advantage: weight. They have LOTS of downside to them (and the smaller they are, the more disadvantages), and IMHO should be used in non-challenging situations until you are an expert in their use.
Couldn't agree more. We had a giant discussion of tarps here---
http://www.trailspace.com/forums/beginners/topics/120382.html
Points and counterpoints.
I used a tarp in the late 70's and early 80's but grew up fast after my first 1982 -10F snowstorm with blown-in spindrift. Never again. Then there's the heavy winter rainstorm deluges whereby you get sheeting ground water and Lake Effect no matter what location you pick because the water is coming down nonstop hard and you must have a bathtub floor in high denier and high hydrostatic head. Otherwise you do the Pile-Everything-On-Top-Of-Your-Sleeping-Pad-And-Squat. Yes, ground water will come over a tarp's groundsheet. And then things get sheety.
Oh and let's talk about Wind---tremendous open bald high mountain winds. There's a reason mountaineers do not use tarps for their shelters.
SouthMark
09-28-2014, 11:32
Don't come to Maine except in the early spring or fall. That will change your mind about the netting.
Have always heard the horror stories about the bugs in Maine. I have made three hiking trips to Maine… May, June and August. I have yet to be bitten. Only bugs were a few hats here and there.
This is another case where minimalist posters are overstating the advantages of tarps, and downplaying the disadvantages. This gets inexperienced backpackers into trouble. Tarps have ONE advantage: weight. They have LOTS of downside to them (and the smaller they are, the more disadvantages), and IMHO should be used in non-challenging situations until you are an expert in their use.
It is true that it takes both skill and experience to use tarps effectively...
But to say that tarps have only ONE advantage, that "minimalist posters" are just over-stating their benefits, seems rather short-sighted.
squeezebox
09-28-2014, 12:12
According to my very basic math
A tent 2lb/ pad 1lb/ ground cloth 1/2 lb/ bag 1-2 lb =41/2 =51/2
tarp 1lb/ hammock 1lb / bottom quilt 1 lb / bag 1-2 lb = 4-5 lbs.
Congratulations!! your hammock/tarp saves you 1/2 lb.
And you don't have a ground cloth to sit on, or nap on during the day
????????????????????????????????????
If all you have is a hammer all your problems will look like a nail. Glad I have more than one tool.
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Tipi Walter
09-28-2014, 12:31
If all you have is a hammer all your problems will look like a nail. Glad I have more than one tool.
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Agreed, a multitool is needed. But who takes out a tarp and a tent and a hammock and a bivy bag all in one trip? Because a single long trip can go from 50F to a blizzard at 0F to a 60mph thunderstorm to a 150 hour rainstorm. Therefore a multitool in my opinion is a decent double wall 4-season tent. Amen, pass the mac and cheese, etc.
Agreed, a multitool is needed. But who takes out a tarp and a tent and a hammock and a bivy bag all in one trip? Because a single long trip can go from 50F to a blizzard at 0F to a 60mph thunderstorm to a 150 hour rainstorm. Therefore a multitool in my opinion is a decent double wall 4-season tent. Amen, pass the mac and cheese, etc.
I just hiked the Pacific Crest Trial this year. 2660 or so miles over 4 months. According to you, I should have carried a double wall, 4 season tent. Trust me - I would have looked like an idiot.
The point I'm trying to make is that it is obvious you have dialed in the perfect setup for your hikes and your preferences and I applaude you for it but you or no one else has cornered the market on the right way to hike and camp. I have several shelters for different situations, including a hammock - I enjoy learning all of them. Well... I'm not much on hammocks but.....
We do share a love of the outdoors and that I can truly appreciate.
bangorme
09-28-2014, 14:46
Have always heard the horror stories about the bugs in Maine. I have made three hiking trips to Maine… May, June and August. I have yet to be bitten. Only bugs were a few hats here and there.
Well, you were lucky. I've been fishing in May and June and had over 100 black flies on me all the time. I suppose, if you only hiked at altitude, you might have avoided them. Even on the top of Mt Adams a couple years ago there was a swarm of black flies that were just circling up there. They were terrible and drove me off the summit lol. I talked to a couple ladies that were on their way down and they said there were fleas up there. They weren't fleas, but black flies. I can only guess that they got blown up there and got trapped????
bangorme
09-28-2014, 14:55
It is true that it takes both skill and experience to use tarps effectively...
But to say that tarps have only ONE advantage, that "minimalist posters" are just over-stating their benefits, seems rather short-sighted.
This was a good thread on this topic that shed more light than heat: http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?103855-What-did-she-do-wrong
Tipi Walter
09-28-2014, 15:01
And while tent users have miserable experiences and failures too, it helps since we're discussing tarps to add this helpful link---
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=67460&disable_pagination=1
The ultralighters tend to go with "better site selection" when challenged by extreme weather which to my mind restricts a backpacker's freedom. I.E.: You set up on a mountaintop under clear calm cool skies and by 3am you're in a hell storm with slicing horizontal sleet and 60mph winds. Conditions change, and your "right tool for the job"(tarp) needs an upgrade replacement to handle drastically changing conditions. Multitool.
rocketsocks
09-28-2014, 15:36
Couldn't agree more. We had a giant discussion of tarps here---
http://www.trailspace.com/forums/beginners/topics/120382.html
Points and counterpoints.
I used a tarp in the late 70's and early 80's but grew up fast after my first 1982 -10F snowstorm with blown-in spindrift. Never again. Then there's the heavy winter rainstorm deluges whereby you get sheeting ground water and Lake Effect no matter what location you pick because the water is coming down nonstop hard and you must have a bathtub floor in high denier and high hydrostatic head. Otherwise you do the Pile-Everything-On-Top-Of-Your-Sleeping-Pad-And-Squat. Yes, ground water will come over a tarp's groundsheet. And then things get sheety.
Oh and let's talk about Wind---tremendous open bald high mountain winds. There's a reason mountaineers do not use tarps for their shelters.
I have read these stories before, but it is compilation of the tri that really drive home the point...all great stories in and of them selves, thanks for the reminder. lots to be learned there folks.
Another wasted thread as far as I'm concerned.
Tarps aren't going away, hikers use tarps successfully, many hikers favor tarps over other shelters in a multitude of environments.
For now I'm enjoying playing with my tarp and am having a great time. I'm feeling confident enough to take it as my shelter on a Springer-Fontana hike in a few weeks. If that's not what you might enjoy then stick with what you think is best.
I've got a shelf with tents, tarps, bivys, and hammocks on it. I like learning all of them. I'm not a one-note-song kinda hiker.
Another wasted thread as far as I'm concerned.
Tarps aren't going away, hikers use tarps successfully, many hikers favor tarps over other shelters in a multitude of environments.
For now I'm enjoying playing with my tarp and am having a great time. I'm feeling confident enough to take it as my shelter on a Springer-Fontana hike in a few weeks. If that's not what you might enjoy then stick with what you think is best.
I've got a shelf with tents, tarps, bivys, and hammocks on it. I like learning all of them. I'm not a one-note-song kinda hiker.
10k I did a Springer to Damascus in 2012 and carried a 8x10 tarp (6oz) It was a pleasure to carry and sleep under. Out of 30 days, probably rained 6-7 nights, had no problem with anything getting wet. Was also using down bag and jacket.
rocketsocks
09-28-2014, 16:56
Another wasted thread as far as I'm concerned.
Tarps aren't going away, hikers use tarps successfully, many hikers favor tarps over other shelters in a multitude of environments.
For now I'm enjoying playing with my tarp and am having a great time. I'm feeling confident enough to take it as my shelter on a Springer-Fontana hike in a few weeks. If that's not what you might enjoy then stick with what you think is best.
I've got a shelf with tents, tarps, bivys, and hammocks on it. I like learning all of them. I'm not a one-note-song kinda hiker.
couldn't disagree more...I gleaned something from both side of the isle on this perennial thorny issue...thanks all.
shakey_snake
09-28-2014, 23:19
light is right.
squeezebox
09-29-2014, 02:46
I still contend that a tarp/hammock is not lighter than a UL tent.
Plus no decent place to put your gear.
I still contend that a tarp/hammock is not lighter than a UL tent.
Plus no decent place to put your gear.
SB, What? You are combining gear combinations as to your experience? Each piece is very fieldable and has something to offer. As 10k say's. if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail...:)
I still contend that a tarp/hammock is not lighter than a UL tent.
Plus no decent place to put your gear.
Then stick with a UL tent for every trip.
Problem solved. :)
Damn Yankee
09-29-2014, 07:46
TREKMAN001 (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/member.php?55256-TREKMAN001) You can try this place. I don't DIY so have never bought from them.
http://diygearsupply.com/
You'll need ample overhead coverage to stay dry on those snotty nights. My first tarp was a 6X9 which was too small for me and a big dog. I never got excessively wet in it though, and I used it for more than 500 miles. I purchased a 8X10, which was perfect for myself and a dog or two, but it got small with the addition of another person. A 10X10 works well for two. Even when a tarp is pitched with the sides on the ground, and the peak pretty short, you can still have some rain blowing in with wind. So, you need the most overhang, extending outside of your sleeping area, to stay dry. This can be achieved by pitching with three sides on the ground and only one pole on the remaining side. In this application, it helps to have some way to pull the center seam up, thus increasing head space. You can then place your pack, with pack cover, against the front pole and with some constructive use of rain gear and what not, block off that cave hole in the front. As far as bugs are concerned, site selection goes a long way in keeping bug free. You must know, however, there will be those mornings when you wake up with ten thousand granddaddy long legs doing that weird mating thing on the inside of your tarp. There will be another two hundred of them in your hair. Or, my personal favorite, being invaded by hundreds of salamanders in the middle of the night, plethadons I think. It just happens. Minimalist practices have benefits however. Your tarp will never condensate on the inside, unless surrounded by condensation filled air, in which case a tent would condensate one thousand percent more. Weight savings of course, and that feeling of being closer to your surroundings. You can also tie that thing up between two trees quickly for some dry lunch space when it's raining. Tent, tarp, bivy, hammock, shelter, pine bows, hotel rooms, who freakin' cares. Try it. If it makes you happy, do it. If it doesn't do something else.
SteelCut
09-29-2014, 08:47
Tent, tarp, bivy, hammock, shelter, pine bows, hotel rooms, who freakin' cares. Try it. If it makes you happy, do it. If it doesn't do something else.
+1. Well said.
Tipi Walter
09-29-2014, 09:05
For those interested in tarp camping and the people who do it, check out my Tarp Camping keyword pics of all the backpackers I've run into using tarps. (I include hammock camping as tarp camping). See---
http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/keyword/tarp%20camping/
http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2011/Tipi-Walter-Backpacking-TN/i-CgBqc2M/0/M/TRIP%20125%20031-M.jpg
Here is Bryan DeLay's tarp set up using I believe a Mt Laurel Designs tarp? It's on the South Fork Citico trail.
http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2011/Tipi-Walter-and-Johnny-Molloy/i-CTNgGbw/0/M/TRIP%20125%20411-M.jpg
Here's Hootyhoo set up in Cold Spring Gap on the BMT.
http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2013-1/Tipi-Walter-Cranbrook/i-krHsSSZ/0/M/TRIP%20143%20172-M.jpg
Here is the Cranbrook School from Michigan pulling their 10 days in the Slickrock wilderness NC and set up in a butt cold wind in the high gap of Naked Ground at 5,000 feet. Cold Wind is tough in a tarp and here they had to close off the end to get some relief.
http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2009/Chattanooga-Cheryl-and-the-Bob/i-xBjGKCT/0/M/Trip%20103%20116-M.jpg
Thru experience I have found the worst aspect of tarp camping to be high blizzard winds on a mountaintop whereby your living space fills up with snow spindrift. This fellow woke up to a cold wind and low temps and of course had to lower his tarp down several feet.
http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2009/Chattanooga-Cheryl-and-the-Bob/i-4JDFtR6/0/M/Trip%20103%20118-M.jpg
Getting his tarp prepared for more snow and more wind.
http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2008/Blizzard-on-the-Bob-and-the/i-CWcnGS5/0/M/Trip%2085%20018-M.jpg
This pic shows an interesting occurrence---we're at 5,300 feet on top of Bob Mt when a butt cold sleet/rainstorm hits with tremendous winds as only the Bob can get and a hammocker's tarp blows away from his hammock causing a midnight bail-out into a friend's tent nearby in order to stay dry. If solo his trip would have been seriously compromised.
http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2007/Camping-with-Sgt-Rock-on/i-xJbQd7h/0/M/TRIP%2068%20081-M.jpg
Finally, here's a real minimalist setup on Slickrock Creek. You just hope conditions don't change in the middle of the night.
Nice photos Tipi! Thanks for those.
saltysack
09-29-2014, 10:08
After seeing those pics I'll buy the lightheart solong6, was contemplating trying a tarp.... I'll pass on the tarp for now....:)
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I can't comment on the Hexamid in snow conditions, but it seems to combine the best aspects of a tarp and a more robust shelter in a very lightweight package. At 20 ounces for my Twin size Hexamid, I can't think of a better shelter for three season camping. I'm not motivated to go with a tarp to save a few ounces since I would be losing the bug netting and would still have to carry some type of ground sheet. I guess I don't see the attractions of using a tarp given how light the Hexamid is.
Would you cowboy camp using your hexamid as a ground cloth?
On the PCT my contrail was a groundsheet more often than I slept in it.
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Studlintsean
09-29-2014, 10:31
I have been playing with tarps for the past year and a half but generally only use them outside the height of summer (to avoid being eaten alive). These photos show the half pyramid setup that General was referring to and also an A-Frame set up. Up until this point I have always used the A-Frame setup as I have not encountered bad weather (I am normally a 1-5 night section hiker which helps avoid the worst of weather). I am hoping to use the tarp on an upcoming 5 day section hike.
bangorme
09-29-2014, 10:32
For me, the Zpack tents (using the hiking poles) seem like the perfect tent, if you are willing to have an non-freestanding tent). But, as with all perfect things, they are too expensive. I like a freestanding tent for use on platforms. But, if I give that up, I'll be looking at something like the Zpacks, but with less expensive material.
Would you cowboy camp using your hexamid as a ground cloth?
On the PCT my contrail was a groundsheet more often than I slept in it.
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I have the zPacks groundsheet so I would probably use that to cowboy camp, although I've never done so up to this point. I have an aversion to crawling insects that I need to get past before sleeping in the open, even at times when flying insects aren't a factor.
Damn Yankee
09-29-2014, 10:55
I agree with most people that tents and tarps each have their advantages and disadvantages. Would I want to use just a tarp during buggy seasons? No. Hence the tent. Where-as, Fall and early Spring are ideal and depending on your tarp setup, possible winter depending on where you live. I don't believe that just having one system is the answer. Recently in Yosemite, I slept out under the stars with a ground cloth, sleeping pad and bag for 5 out of the 6 days but, on the last day, rain all day and night so, set up a tarp. Rain ran off the tarp edges and under the tarp. Luckily, between the ground cloth and pad, I mostly stayed dry. In summary, have more than one choice of shelters and think about how little you can get by with comfortably at any time.
TREKMAN001
09-29-2014, 17:12
Wow, thanks for all of the input!! I have learned from your responses that A: a tarp is vesatile and light. B: I have to practice set up to manage wind and rain. C: I will need a larger size tarp than I originally thought. C: Seasonal use is best ie: summer/bugs = tent rest of the year = tarp D: Everybody has their own way of doing things, and I appreciate that you have taken the time to share your knowledge!!! E: Tipiwalter is ALWAYS prepared for anything!
Thanks, Guy.
I also make alot of my own gear, does anyone know of a reputable, inexpensive source for sylnylon?
BTW the people on this website rock! Even the trolls have their own personality! Thanks for all of your replies.
Guy.
When I saw this, I just had to reply! I didn't read the next 2 pages so sorry if this is a repeat post. But tarps are a great project for a beginner, they are easy to make basically just a rectangle with tie-offs! I recommend Ray Jardine's tarp kit. His kit is $75, includes materials and detailed instructions. I have made Ray's tarp, net tent, and quilt. I have hiked with the tarp for hundreds of miles, and of course Ray himself has used it for thousands more!
I believe there is better stuff out there these days (cuben fiber) but it costs an arm and a leg. If you just want to give tarping a try, I think Ray's kit is a great option.
http://www.rayjardine.com/ray-way/Tarp-Kit/index.htm
After seeing those pics I'll buy the lightheart solong6, was contemplating trying a tarp.... I'll pass on the tarp for now....:)
You can buy a cheap tarp for testing purposes, just to see if it is "for you". :D Otherwise happy trails.
I believe there is better stuff out there these days (cuben fiber) but it costs an arm and a leg.
Cuben fiber is wonderful, isn't it? But its as you said cost wise. Only go cuben when you know that shelter system is one you will use enough to justify its expense.
saltysack
09-29-2014, 18:01
Will do....I don't trust my jrt not being confined to a tent...though usually after 15+ miles he is usually ready to curl up and go to sleep....
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I've been exclusively tarping since 2006 though I don't do full winter camping which I concede might require something else. Went to the solo sized tarp/bivy in 2008 and haven't looked back. I've used it on several long trails in a variety of weather conditions including the AT. After reading a few posts here, I've realized that I'm clearly doing something wrong. A shelter system weighing 10.7oz is too light and clearly can't handle more then the 6-8 inches of snow or the 30-50mph winds in bad weather that I've been in. I must upgrade to a nice and heavy UL tent immediately. Thanks for letting me know before I repeat my mistake on the CDT! :p
Back to the OP question. I originally went to tarping as a way of saving weight. My current tarp weighs 6.2oz with stakes and guylines though its part of a heavier shelter system which includes a 4.5oz bivy sack. I've come to love the versatility of a tarp/bivy combo. By having my rain protection seperate from my bug and wind protection and ground cloth, it allows me to only use what I need on a given night. I can even use part of it in an AT shelter for things like bug protection. Given that I love hiking but hate camp chores, I only do the bare minimum in camp. Meaning I don't want to setup a full shelter every night if it isn't raining. So I cowboy camp most nights. My system works for my hiking style. But not everyone likes to camp like me and a tarp will not work for everyone. And there are some people who should never use a tarp as they have an inability to learn from past mistakes. Tarps do need more experience and yes, you just don't camp anywhere with one so it limits your camping sites. But given that I camp to hike, not hike to camp, that tradeoffs fine for me. I don't hike to a nice place to camp at night. I spend time at nice places during the day and only stop to camp when I'm ready for bed at the first acceptable camp spot I see. As I'll be up hiking early in the morning, I don't care if it isn't scenic since I won't spend much time in it during daylight hours. Once again, my shelter system fits my hiking style. It doesn't work for everyone, which is why someone invented those suffocating things called tents.
@ Miner
As a fellow tarp/bivy hiker, I'm curious what bivy you're using? 4.5oz caught my attention. ;)
JumpMaster Blaster
09-29-2014, 19:31
Yep... I also don't want bugs crawling on me at night either... Yep he's on next guard, spray his jacket w permethrin also
THIS is why I tent.
saltysack
09-29-2014, 20:40
I'm curious what does a good tarp, groundsheet and bivy cost? What size and brand for 1 plus dog??
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Tipi Walter
09-29-2014, 20:43
As far as bugs are concerned, site selection goes a long way in keeping bug free. You must know, however, there will be those mornings when you wake up with ten thousand granddaddy long legs doing that weird mating thing on the inside of your tarp. There will be another two hundred of them in your hair. Or, my personal favorite, being invaded by hundreds of salamanders in the middle of the night, plethadons I think. It just happens.
Your tarp will never condensate on the inside, unless surrounded by condensation filled air, in which case a tent would condensate one thousand percent more. Weight savings of course, and that feeling of being closer to your surroundings.
The discussion of tarp use has to take in account geography and location. Since I do most (or all) of my backpacking in the mountains of VA, NC, GA and TN, my take on tarps is colored by location. On my last trip I also had 3 fast moving salamanders join me in my unzipped tent but they're some of my favorite creatures. MIDGES (noseeums) on the other hand can be terrible from April to September and so the need for an in-tarp floor and bug screen. Or a tent.
Some people say they don't use tarps during bug season but heck bug season is 6 months out of the year in my area.
And as far as a tarp never having condensation, well, this is just untrue as my backpacking buddy Patman can attest. Remember, a tarp is a single wall shelter and when conditions are right this condensation gets messy for the occupant. At least in a double wall tent such condensation drips onto the inner canopy and most of it falls away, except on high humidity nights in snow or sleetstorms when the inner canopy itself forms ice.
And then there's the heavy rain misting effect common with Tarptents (single walls) when conditions turn ugly in a 30 hour deluge and the ceiling seems to splash water down on you and your gear. This happens if the rain is hard enough.
Back to the OP question. I originally went to tarping as a way of saving weight. My current tarp weighs 6.2oz with stakes and guylines though its part of a heavier shelter system which includes a 4.5oz bivy sack. I've come to love the versatility of a tarp/bivy combo. By having my rain protection seperate from my bug and wind protection and ground cloth, it allows me to only use what I need on a given night. I can even use part of it in an AT shelter for things like bug protection. Given that I love hiking but hate camp chores, I only do the bare minimum in camp. Meaning I don't want to setup a full shelter every night if it isn't raining. So I cowboy camp most nights. My system works for my hiking style. But not everyone likes to camp like me and a tarp will not work for everyone. And there are some people who should never use a tarp as they have an inability to learn from past mistakes. Tarps do need more experience and yes, you just don't camp anywhere with one so it limits your camping sites. But given that I camp to hike, not hike to camp, that tradeoffs fine for me. I don't hike to a nice place to camp at night. I spend time at nice places during the day and only stop to camp when I'm ready for bed at the first acceptable camp spot I see. As I'll be up hiking early in the morning, I don't care if it isn't scenic since I won't spend much time in it during daylight hours. Once again, my shelter system fits my hiking style. It doesn't work for everyone, which is why someone invented those suffocating things called tents.
Good points and some I can relate to. My bivy experience ended due to two factors---trying to avoid mosquitoes and using the bivy to sleep in but getting miserably hot with no sleep. The bugs kept buzzing in my ears all night long and the bivy offered protection only if in suffocation mode. Constricting and hot.
The cowboy camping/bedroll "shelter" is most favored and one I employed for several years in various locations, with and without bivy bags. How many times did I lay out my bedroll at 10pm under crystal clear starry skies and then get walloped by a 3am rainstorm coming out of nowhere? Too many times to count. There's a mad rush with the minimag light in my mouth as I drool down the aluminum tube (think 1980's) trying to get my tarp set up and avoid getting a surprise soak. No thanks.
And conditions change enough to get tired of the surprise and so I find it's much easier to set up the shelter right off and avoid the bedroll system.
The main point in all this is to stay dry and warm in all conditions no matter what. There's no town bail-outs or motel rooms or laundry mats---there's just you and your shelter. If a tarp system works for you in a 365 day scenario and you and your gear stays dry and happy then you're set.
If it can go from a -10F blizzard with 50mph winds to a hot muggy Midge hell zone to 180 hour January rainstorms to a 2-3 foot snowfall then you've got it dialed in and have no complaints.
The main point in all this is to stay dry and warm in all conditions no matter what. There's no town bail-outs or motel rooms or laundry mats---there's just you and your shelter. If a tarp system works for you in a 365 day scenario and you and your gear stays dry and happy then you're set.
If it can go from a -10F blizzard with 50mph winds to a hot muggy Midge hell zone to 180 hour January rainstorms to a 2-3 foot snowfall then you've got it dialed in and have no complaints.
This isn't a fair requirement! Would you say the same thing of a sleeping bag, for example? Tarps are great for general 3-season camping and backpacking, which is what most people do most of the time. Sure, I would not use a tarp in the winter. I would also bring a different jacket, different shoes, different sleeping bag, etc! It doesn't make sense to have a rule that your shelter must be perfect in winter and summer - hardly any gear can do that.
And yes, site selection is very important. Your comment about hard rain can be easily solved by camping under tree cover, which as you know is not very difficult to find on the AT! Forget a 30 hour deluge, I pretty much had a 30 day deluge in New England and I never got wet under my tarp. Another benefit is that setting up in the rain isn't a problem. Setting up a tent in the rain just means you will be sleeping in a wet tent!
perdidochas
09-30-2014, 14:21
According to my very basic math
A tent 2lb/ pad 1lb/ ground cloth 1/2 lb/ bag 1-2 lb =41/2 =51/2
tarp 1lb/ hammock 1lb / bottom quilt 1 lb / bag 1-2 lb = 4-5 lbs.
Congratulations!! your hammock/tarp saves you 1/2 lb.
And you don't have a ground cloth to sit on, or nap on during the day
????????????????????????????????????
But you have a hammock to nap on during the day :-) Hammocks without flies set up quickly.
perdidochas
09-30-2014, 14:24
I still contend that a tarp/hammock is not lighter than a UL tent.
Plus no decent place to put your gear.
As a hammocker, I agree about the weight. That said, for me, the greater amount of sleep I get is worth it.
I hang my backpack on a tree, with the pack cover over it.
Silly. There have been plenty of thru-hikers/long distance hikers on all manner of various trails and under a wide variety of conditions that have utilized a tarp as their only shelter and certainly not only under the most favorable 3 season short time duration hiking conditions. Tarp or tarp/bivy combo I used exclusively on these thru-hikes - PCT, Sierra High Route(late fall), JMT(3x), LT, Colorado Tr, CDT, Pinhoti Tr(winter), BMT, BRT, SHT, etc just to name a few.
@ Miner
As a fellow tarp/bivy hiker, I'm curious what bivy you're using? 4.5oz caught my attention. ;)
Borah Gear Cuben Bivy (http://www.borahgear.com/cubenbivy.html). I bought it back in the spring. My only complaint with it is that its default sizing is too big for a 5'10" person. The design idea seems to be that people like to store their gear inside and need plenty of extra room. I don't as I store my gear inside my backpack at night. I sent it back to have them shorten it by 6 inches. Being unnecessarily longer under a small tarp is a big disadvantage as you have to defend a longer space underneath against rain. Overall, I've been pretty happy with it this summer having used it for about 350 miles of hiking.
I'm currently using a TiGoat Krestel bivy. Weight is dead on 6 ozs, as advertised. I haven't been in a downpour yet but I have decent coverage under my Oware 1.5 Catbird tarp.
http://www.titaniumgoat.com/Kestrel-Bivy.html
FWIW, I checked out of this thread for my own sanity earlier and am glad I popped back in for Miner's post.
I'm currently using a TiGoat Krestel bivy. Weight is dead on 6 ozs, as advertised. I haven't been in a downpour yet but I have decent coverage under my Oware 1.5 Catbird tarp.
http://www.titaniumgoat.com/Kestrel-Bivy.html
From where I left to travel to this latest hike I had few shelter options on hand. Didn't want to nor did I need to buy a new shelter. I currently have an OWare Cat Tarp and Mountain Laurel Designs Superlight Bivy doing the job adequately in Minnesota on the North Shore. I do have a cowboy sized Tyvek sheet as a ground cloth(24"x84"). The total wt for everything including Ti Vargo stakes, aircore lines, and dedicated tarp poles(I'm not fudging numbers by carrying trekking poles and avoiding that wt in my tarp set-ups) is 15.2 ozs. It's been raining about two days of each week. Yes, I did stop for a rainy night in Grand Marais and once stayed at a snowmobile shelter, which is like a small Adirondaks type shelter but with no wooden floor. Balsam Fir branches on the snowmobile shelter floor worked nicely. Sorry Tipi. Actually spruce and fir grow like weeds here in Minnesota.
Took my tarp out for a few nights this past weekend. Temps got into the low 30's with winds up to 20 mph Saturday night according to the NWS. We were at 4150' south of Damascus. I pitched the tarp low in front of a large tree, used my pack to block wind on one side and my umbrella on the other and slept through the night without any wind issues. I was surprised at how little wind got under the tarp....
bangorme
10-07-2014, 14:06
... I pitched the tarp low in front of a large tree, used my pack to block wind on one side and my umbrella on the other and slept through the night without any wind issues. I was surprised at how little wind got under the tarp....
WAY too much trouble for me, but I do appreciate your creativity.
Tent, tarp, bivy, hammock, shelter, pine bows, hotel rooms, who freakin' cares. Try it. If it makes you happy, do it. If it doesn't do something else.
Yes. Avoid sleeping on pine, spruce, etc boughs in the late spring and early summer when the sap is flowing though.
Tent, tarp, bivy, hammock, shelter, pine bows, hotel rooms, who freakin' cares. Try it. If it makes you happy, do it. If it doesn't do something else.
I would like to be proficient with tarp/bivy and tents. I'd like to be able to hang a hammock properly. I'm a fan of hotel rooms! Pine bows I haven't tried.
I just like to experiment with different setups. There's always something to learn - I hate the idea of being stuck with one option for every situation.
CUben tent is the way to go for me. Many have said that cuben is costly. It is relatively speaking. In the over all picture $400 to $600 for a 1# one person tent to a 1.5#for a three person tent, for me is a no brainer. I don't like bugs crawling on me while I sleep. Not to mention Mr No Legs. Where can you get a top of the line weightless anything for $600.
Tipi Walter
10-07-2014, 22:02
This isn't a fair requirement! Would you say the same thing of a sleeping bag, for example? Tarps are great for general 3-season camping and backpacking, which is what most people do most of the time. Sure, I would not use a tarp in the winter. I would also bring a different jacket, different shoes, different sleeping bag, etc! It doesn't make sense to have a rule that your shelter must be perfect in winter and summer - hardly any gear can do that.
And yes, site selection is very important. Your comment about hard rain can be easily solved by camping under tree cover, which as you know is not very difficult to find on the AT! Forget a 30 hour deluge, I pretty much had a 30 day deluge in New England and I never got wet under my tarp. Another benefit is that setting up in the rain isn't a problem. Setting up a tent in the rain just means you will be sleeping in a wet tent!
I take a 4 season tent all year round because I like to find the most exposed spots to camp and learned the hard way that the worst winds are summer thunderstorms in open balds with "microbursts". Camping in exposed spots is one reason I go backpacking, and I feel a silly lament for those who use a shelter that dictates where they can camp. "Site selection" is another word for "ultralight gear" and the words "site selection" are spoken routinely in such circles.
Want to set up on an open bald in a blizzard with 50mph spindrift snow? Want to set up in a rough -10F windstorm in a snowy meadow at 6,000 feet? Want to pull a tropical storm with buckets of rain and certain ground water? It's good to have a shelter that can go anywhere at anytime.
My trips are long and uninterrupted and I often leave the car in January at 50F and 3 days later I'm in a series of 3 major blizzards above 5,000 feet and then there's 2 feet of blown snow but I sit out the storm in my spindrift-proof tent. Why? Because spindrift can get into every crevice and tarps are wide open in this regard, even when sealed to the ground. Spindrift is one complaint from the TarpTent crowd, but then tarptents are not designed to be used in the fourth season.
Anyway, two days later I'm back at 50F with melting snow and then a 96 hour rainstorm at 35F hits, miserable weather, and often it is horizontal and the wind slams the tent sideways so I have to put big rocks on each tent peg. Then by Day 15 I'm caught in a severe cold event (think last year's polar vortex) and yippee I have -10F for 3 days in a creek valley so I don't even try and move and pull these cold days in zero tent mode. The tent in fact becomes a survival tool.
In other words, backpacking freedom is more important than backpacking weight. One of the least important aspects of a backpacking shelter is its weight. Go Anywhere, Anytime is the main criteria of a shelter.