How would you vote on Maine's bear hunting initiative.

[rickb]

In November Maine voters will be asked:

Do you want to ban the use of bait, dogs or traps in bear hunting except to protect property, public safety, or for research?

How would you vote if you lived in Maine?

[Mike04345]

NO!!! http://www.maine.gov/ifw/wildlife/species/mammals/2014BearReferendum.html

[rocketsocks]

Not much of a hunter these days, and was never a trophy hunter, but if I lived in Maine and was to take the emotional aspect out of the vote so as to put meat on the table for my family, No, I would not vote to remove hunting over bait, use of dogs, or traps where legal.

So that's a No vote

Now, not fully understanding all the issues you guys have up there, could you elaborate as to how this vote came to be?

[TJ aka Teej]

Bear over bait is for tourist hunters and locals who suck at hunting.
The argument, that if some guide in Jackman can't guarantee a successful bear kill to his out of state clients it means herds of bears wandering around Portland eating children, is nonsense.

[rickb]

NO!!! http://www.maine.gov/ifw/wildlife/species/mammals/2014BearReferendum.html

I find it interesting that 93% of the bear harvested in Maine are taken in traps, with hounds, or over bait.

Any idea how that 93% breaks down among those three categories?

[JohnnySnook]

NO! Also.
Its a lot harder to find a bear to shoot with out these methods.

I also feel its trains smaller bears to be wary of free food at baited areas and being tree'd by dogs does the same thing. I'm not sure how the trapping works so I can't really comment on that.

The reason for this belief is that many hunters are not taking small juvenile bears. A hunter many have a few bears around a baited site and will shoot the largest bear in front of smaller ones. The same thing for treeing smaller bears with dogs and not killing them does the same thing.

It makes them fear or least be wary of humans in my mind. Too me it makes no sense to ban these practices.

[JohnnySnook]

Bear over bait is for tourist hunters and locals who suck at hunting.
The argument, that if some guide in Jackman can't guarantee a successful bear kill to his out of state clients it means herds of bears wandering around Portland eating children, is nonsense.

Lets also remember not everyone can afford to hire a good guide to take them hunting.
How many of the hunters are actually fit enough to go hike around the woods. Do they know how to be quite or will they be making a ton of noise scaring the bears away on a stalk?
Others may only have a day or two to bag a bear.

Take away the easy kills and I'm the number of kills will go down. Not everyone is professional hunter.

It like hunting deer in high fenced areas and not doing on public land. Is that right? I mean you see a 8 point buck and the guide tells you that deer is $5,000 to shoot. 10 pointer is $8,000, and god forbid you want to go shoot a trophy buck or an exotic.

[TJ aka Teej]

From the IFW site:
By Hunter Residence (2013)
Residents 1,059
Nonresidents 1,786
Bear over bait is all about the revenue produced by marketing to out of state clientele.

[Tipi Walter]

Definitely ban the use of dogs, bait and traps. Be men and hunt without dogs. We use dogs down here in TN and it's a circus. I call it ethnic cleansing. Occasionally we have "organized hunts" in a 5 or 6 day period with 400 hunters and a thousand dogs. The dogs are the real pests as they are left unsupervised in the woods for days at a time, and glom onto the nearest backpacker to steal his food and run hiding into his tent and claw his thermarest.

Maine has a human population of 1,328,000. It has a black bear pop. of around 30,000. So, which is doing the most habitat destruction? Humans love to call what they do "harvesting" or "culling" to make the bear habitat more sustainable. What about the overcrowded human habitat?

[Old Hillwalker]

Support the Right to Arm Bears.

[TJ aka Teej]

I'll compromise my stance: bear over bait for residents only.

[SouthMark]

Definitely ban the use of dogs, bait and traps. Be men and hunt without dogs. We use dogs down here in TN and it's a circus. I call it ethnic cleansing. Occasionally we have "organized hunts" in a 5 or 6 day period with 400 hunters and a thousand dogs. The dogs are the real pests as they are left unsupervised in the woods for days at a time, and glom onto the nearest backpacker to steal his food and run hiding into his tent and claw his thermarest.

Maine has a human population of 1,328,000. It has a black bear pop. of around 30,000. So, which is doing the most habitat destruction? Humans love to call what they do "harvesting" or "culling" to make the bear habitat more sustainable. What about the overcrowded human habitat?

Ditto........

[rickb]

Now, not fully understanding all the issues you guys have up there, could you elaborate as to how this vote came to be?

I don't know a great deal on this, but Maine has an initiative petition process whereby it's citizens can put issues directly on the ballot (bypassing the state legislature) provided they get a whole lot of signatures.

That is what happened here.

The Humane Society of the US helped (and by helped I mean provided a lot of money) to get hose signatures from Maine Citizens, and the vote is coming up in November.

One thing I found interesting is that the initiative bundles baiting, hounding and trapping all together. My understanding is that the organizers of the petition offered to withdraw if the legislature passed existing proposals to ban just the hounding and trapping-- and leave the baiting as it now stands.

As you can imagine, the sportman's groups didn't like that much-- called is extortion-- and saw to it that the Maine legislature didn't act on hounding and trapping.

Now it is an all or nothing vote.

[rocketsocks]

I don't know a great deal on this, but Maine has an initiative petition process whereby it's citizens can put issues directly on the ballot (bypassing the state legislature) provided they get a whole lot of signatures.

That is what happened here.

The Humane Society of the US helped (and by helped I mean provided a lot if money) to gett hose signatures from Maine Citizens, and the vote is coming up in November.

One thing I found interesting is that the initiative bundles baiting, hounding and trapping all together. My understanding is that the Organizers of the petition offered to withdraw if the legislature passed proposals to ban just the hounding and trapping-- and leave the baiting as it now stands.

As you can imagine, the sportman's groups didn't like that much-- called is extortion-- and saw to it that the Maine legislature didn't act on hounding and trapping.ah, now I understand Teej's comment. Not unusual to lump wants together to push an agenda, kinda like and add/hoc back door agreement. Thanks for the reply. Plenty a laws I disagree with in my state, the the vote is the best game in town for change.


Bear over bait is for tourist hunters and locals who suck at hunting.
The argument, that if some guide in Jackman can't guarantee a successful bear kill to his out of state clients it means herds of bears wandering around Portland eating children, is nonsense.

[Deer Hunter]

I wouldn't ban all three. I would vote no.

[Bucketfoot]

Lets see, 30,000 bears in Maine and how many thousands of acres of forest. Could it be that the bears are so hard to find that baiting and hunting with dogs are the only really effective methods of hunting. A chance encounter with a bear while hiking or driving along the road is a far different thing then walking into the woods and trying to find one while hunting. That's when you find out how hard they can be to find. As someone who has hunted all my life I would not want someone who is ignorant of hunting issues to be voting on them. Also as a ten year hiker who has hiked 1600 miles of the AT l would not want someone who does not hike and is ignorant of hiking issues voting on things that would affect my opportunities to hike on the AT. Nobody does more damag damage than the ignorant voter.

[rocketsocks]

Lets see, 30,000 bears in Maine and how many thousands of acres of forest. Could it be that the bears are so hard to find that baiting and hunting with dogs are the only really effective methods of hunting. A chance encounter with a bear while hiking or driving along the road is a far different thing then walking into the woods and trying to find one while hunting. That's when you find out how hard they can be to find. As someone who has hunted all my life I would not want someone who is ignorant of hunting issues to be voting on them. Also as a ten year hiker who has hiked 1600 miles of the AT l would not want someone who does not hike and is ignorant of hiking issues voting on things that would affect my opportunities to hike on the AT. Nobody does more damag damage than the ignorant voter.
agree, but that how referendum works, not always kind to the special interests.

[Old Hiker]

............................. herds of bears wandering around Portland eating children........................

Still trying to decide why this would be a bad thing. :rolleyes: I teach 6th grade.......................

Vote: No.

[rocketsocks]

Still trying to decide why this would be a bad thing. :rolleyes: I teach 6th grade.......................

Vote: No.
1st graders are even worse, belive me...I went though it 3 times. :D grimmey little liberals.

[rickb]

As someone who has hunted all my life I would not want someone who is ignorant of hunting issues to be voting on them.

I get that.

As a non hunter, the idea of a sportsman being led by a registered Maine guide to an area where a bear has been eating stale donuts for a month, seems rather "un sporting".

That said, the trophy will look no different.

What surprises me is why so few hunters find this strategy to be honorable? I get the idea that the only thing that matters is a full freezer when it comes to deer, but I thought sport mattered at least to some degree when it came to bear.

[JohnnySnook]

Just hearing that the Humane Society was involved in this sets off alarm bells. Yes, they do a a lot of good but are also in cohorts with PITA and other environmental groups that would like to take ban all hunting, fishing, and any other outdoor activity they feel is hurting or disrupting animals. Many of these people are impossible to reason with and they use dogs and cats as a way to fund there true agenda. That no, fish, bird, or animal be harvested or in many cases even disturbed.
Here in south florida they are working on removing channel makers from many inshore waterways and pushing for no-motor zones. In many of these areas the wildlife has come back in a huge way and the fishing is the best its been in years but good forbid a fish tortured by a hook attached to a line and then released.
In fact the american crocodile (a vert shy creature) has made such a comeback one actually attacked a swimmer this month.

Even if you make a fishing area catch and release only they will still push that just catching fish is evil and the fish suffer.

It took me a long time to realize that some of the more extremist groups use the Humane Society in this way.

Don't think that it doesn't affect hikers who love nature. Once they're done going after fisherman and hunters they will find a reason to shut down hiking areas if they feel a animal is being disturbed.

Sorry for the vent but be wary.

As to the guy that said there are to many humans. This true. Another world war, yellowstone erupting, solar flare taking out the grid, or some other natural event would be interesting.
Good forbid another black plague or other disease could get ugly. Pharmaceutical companies have stopped funding new antibiotics due the fact they make a lot more money selling sexual enhancement drugs. Many common disease are not responding to the over use of current antibiotics.

They earth will regulate herself. When she get tired of us she will eliminate us and some other beings will take our place. Just its not in my life time.

[JohnnySnook]

Also baiting bears isn't like giving a free hand out.

Its like having a bear canister but with a few holes drilled in it so the bears can smell easily but can't get in.

Then this 50 gallon barrel(I mean bear canister with holes in it) is chained to a tree under a tree stand. Yes some food is spread around the area but not much. just enough to keep the bears coming back daily. They guides will often come by and but just a bit of food out daily to keep the bears coming back and doing their best to get to the mother load in the big barrel. They guides know if they can use trail cams at these sites to locate a trophy bear and keep it coming back so they can charge more and a $500 dollar tip might be much much more for a true trophy bear.

If you just put food out the bears would eat it right up. Come back and find no food and never come back. If the site isn't used often then they hunter will just sit in a tree watching squirrels.

[JohnnySnook]

What does a Kodiak bear hunt cost? Costs are dictated by the distance you are from your hunt area, how you plan to get there, what gear you need to purchase, and a variety of other factors unique to your situation. Here are some of the "fixed costs":

Hunting license Alaska resident (http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=hunting.guidereqs#definitions) = $25
Nonresident (http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=hunting.guidereqs#definitions) = $85
Nonresident Alien (http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=hunting.guidereqs#definitions) = $300 Bear tag Alaska resident (http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=hunting.guidereqs#definitions) = $25
Nonresident (Alaska military) = $250
Nonresident (http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=hunting.guidereqs#definitions) = $500
Nonresident Alien (http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=hunting.guidereqs#definitions) = $600 Land use fees Public land = no charge
Private land = $200 – $1,200 Guide fees $10,000 – $22,000 Taxidermy fees $1,000 – $7,000 Access to hunt area Aircraft weight includes passengers and gear. Floatplane (varies by type of aircraft) 800lbs=~$400/hour, 1,200lbs=$500-$600/hour. Boat (daily rate) $500-$1200/person
Brown Bear Hunt Prices Moose cannot be "added" on to these prices. See combination hunt prices below. Dates are the dates you arrive and depart camp.


Date Ranges
Guides / Hunters
Bear Hunting Days
Cost per Hunter
Bear Kill Fee
Wolf Kill Fee


4/14 - 4/24
1/1
9
$25,500
1st Bear Included, 2nd Bear $3,000
$200


4/24 - 5/4
1 / 1
9
$25,000
1st Bear Included, 2nd Bear $3,000
$200


4/14 - 5/4
1 / 2
9
$18,500
1st Bear Included, 2nd Bear $2,500
$200


5/4 - 5/15, 5/15 - 5/25 Baited#
1 /1
10
$18,000
$3,000 2nd bear
No Wolf Hunting


5/4 - 5/15, 5/15 - 5/25 No Bait
1 / 1
10
$14,500
$2,500 2nd bear
No Wolf Hunting


8/19-27
1 / 1
7
$11,000
$2,000 2nd bear
$200


8/19-30
1 / 1
10
$13,500
2 bears, no kill fees
$200


8/27- 9/4
1 / 1
7
$10,300
$2,000 2nd bear
$200


9/1 - 9/16
1 / 1
7
$11,500
$2,000 2nd bear
$200


9/1 - 9/16
1 / 1
10
$12,500
$2,000 2nd bear
$200


9/16 - 10/10
1 / 1
8
$9,300
$2,500 2nd bear
$200


9/16 - 10/10
1 / 1
10
$10,500
$2,500 2nd bear
$200


9/16 - 10/10
1 / 2
10
$9,500
$2,500 2nd bear
$200



Black bear kill fees
Kill Fees

Black Bear
$800 / $2,000




This is for Alaska.

Maine Hunts

All bear hunts are six days lodging and five days hunting. The best time to arrive is Sunday afternoon.
A 50% deposit is required on all hunts. No deposits refunded.
PERSONAL CHECKS ACCEPTED ON RESERVATIONS ONLY.
Please make Checks Payable to either "Foggy Mountain Guide Service" or to "Wayne Bosowicz".



Bear Hunting in Maine's Vast Highlands, Moosehead & Katahdin Region - August & September
$2,195.00
(2014 & 2015)


(Housekeeping Accommodations)
You will be set up on real active baits and mostly all good close shooting. Our specially processed bait along with our own highly productive scent formula are a couple of reasons why we have such good success with this method of hunting. Non-hunting spouse or partner $375.00. Land Access Fee $100.00 additional per person.





Bear Hunting in Maine's West Branch Region - September
$2,495.00
(2014 & 2015)


(American Plan)
A six day stay and a five day hunt tailored the same as our regular base camp housekeeping hunts. However, this hunt will also include all home-cooked meals buffet-style said to be the finest in Maine with the coffee pot always on. Non-hunting spouse or partner $675.00. Land Access Fee $100.00 additional per person.



Maine hunts are much cheaper but why hunt in Maine for bears that run away when you can hunt in alaska for a bear that may kill you if you don't kill it?

[Don H]

Bear over bait is all about the revenue produced by marketing to out of state clientele.

And this is a bad thing?
The state of Maine makes considerable money off liscenses, fees and taxes from all those non-resident hunters coming into the state to spend money, not to mention the money to small businesses mostly in rural areas where there are few job opportunities.

If I lived in ME I'd vote no.

[runt13]

NO!

I am an avid bear hunter, I prefer the still hunting method and would not personally use dogs or traps. but I am not against it.

RUNT ''13''

[weary]

Bear over bait is for tourist hunters and locals who suck at hunting.
The argument, that if some guide in Jackman can't guarantee a successful bear kill to his out of state clients it means herds of bears wandering around Portland eating children, is nonsense.
I agree, absolutely

[Traveler]

I would be for special bait and trap licenses that have specific requirements (ME does require the trapper to check the traps every 24 hours), however, the use of dogs has been problematic over the years. Dogs can't read well, so they tend to blow past the posted no trespassing signs, with them, the owners blow by them too. Our property in ME (and that of about a dozen neighbors) was constantly invaded by hunters and dogs until we finally got serious about it and hung cameras out. We identified most every trespasser (some of them by the dogs). The properties were well posted, signs made it clear there would be consequences, and there were.

To date the property owners have successfully prosecuted about 60 criminal trespassers, with most of them losing in court. We also made it clear "accelerated rehabilitation" was not an option we would sign "yes" to. The most egregious were those who insisted they could bring their ATVs into private lands. Those we pursued monetary compensation in civil court to return the woods they ruined to pristine conditions.

I would include dogs in the "ok with permit" column once they can read. Clearly by our experience some of their owners are not literate.

[brian039]

No. From what I understand from the wildlife biologists is that without baiting the success rate of bear hunting goes down to nearly 0%.

[Lyle]

I never trust these types of convenient statistics. 93% of the bears killed used bait, dogs or traps. Only 7% were killed without using these tactics. Perhaps that is because 93% of the hunters are using these techniques, not because they are the only effective methods. Unless you can see the studies that support the statistics, the statistics alone can be made to "prove" any position desired.

[Traveler]

Just hearing that the Humane Society was involved in this sets off alarm bells. Yes, they do a a lot of good but are also in cohorts with PITA and other environmental groups that would like to take ban all hunting, fishing, and any other outdoor activity they feel is hurting or disrupting animals. Many of these people are impossible to reason with and they use dogs and cats as a way to fund there true agenda. That no, fish, bird, or animal be harvested or in many cases even disturbed.
Here in south florida they are working on removing channel makers from many inshore waterways and pushing for no-motor zones. In many of these areas the wildlife has come back in a huge way and the fishing is the best its been in years but good forbid a fish tortured by a hook attached to a line and then released.
In fact the american crocodile (a vert shy creature) has made such a comeback one actually attacked a swimmer this month.

Even if you make a fishing area catch and release only they will still push that just catching fish is evil and the fish suffer.

It took me a long time to realize that some of the more extremist groups use the Humane Society in this way.

Don't think that it doesn't affect hikers who love nature. Once they're done going after fisherman and hunters they will find a reason to shut down hiking areas if they feel a animal is being disturbed.

Sorry for the vent but be wary.

As to the guy that said there are to many humans. This true. Another world war, yellowstone erupting, solar flare taking out the grid, or some other natural event would be interesting.
Good forbid another black plague or other disease could get ugly. Pharmaceutical companies have stopped funding new antibiotics due the fact they make a lot more money selling sexual enhancement drugs. Many common disease are not responding to the over use of current antibiotics.

They earth will regulate herself. When she get tired of us she will eliminate us and some other beings will take our place. Just its not in my life time.

Some folk would say pretty much the same things about the gun lobby.....

[rickb]

The idea that more than half of the bears harvested on Maine are taken by out-of-staters over a pile of stale donuts is unsettling. More so when you consider that nearly all of those out-of-staters didn't even place the bait there themselves, but rather paid a Registered Maine Guide many hundreds of dollars to do it for them.

Is this good for the bear population? I honestly don't know.

Is it good for the hunters who go back to their suburban homes with a bear? Obviously, or they wouldn't have gone to so much effort and expense.

I wonder if those hunters tell their wives, friends and coworkers why they were so successful, though.

[rocketsocks]

Question.

how many days does Bear season run in Maine, and what is the bag limit?

[T.S.Kobzol]

I would vote Yes to ban baiting. If, as a consequence, the get 'Planet of the Bears' then we could adjust our hunting laws accordingly.

[Sarcasm the elf]

I would vote to have the hunting laws developed by professional wildlife biologists and conservation management authorities and not by feel good voter ballot initiatives.

[Lyle]

I would vote to have the hunting laws developed by professional wildlife biologists and conservation management authorities and not by feel good voter ballot initiatives.

Except that these are political positions, or at least, overseen by politicians who are extremely influenced by and beholding to big money special interests. Government endeavors need public over site.

Baiting is NOT hunting, it's commercial killing of wildlife for profit.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Except that these are political positions, or at least, overseen by politicians who are extremely influenced by and beholding to big money special interests. Government endeavors need public over site.

Baiting is NOT hunting, it's commercial killing of wildlife for profit. Ah yes, the purists mantra that profit is somehow evil when it comes to hunting. I used to think that way and stillsympathize with it to an extent, but over the years I've slowly realized that I'd much rather have hunters make an economically viable use of open space than to see it logged or turned into condos. Profit and hunters have done more to fund the protection the environment than almost any other group (to the tune of 8 billion dollars through the Pittman-Robertson conservation act alone.)

I don't find the idea of hunting over bait to be very sporting, but it certainly is hunting and as long as it is regulated within the control of a responsible management program then I'm fine with it.

[1azarus]

I would vote to have the hunting laws developed by professional wildlife biologists and conservation management authorities and not by feel good voter ballot initiatives.

Good point.

[swjohnsey]

I would vote for allowing bears only to be taken with a knife.

[Traveler]

Most black bear have a distinct fear of humans unless they are sick, even then they are usually wary. Typically, black bears only show aggression towards humans when they are taunted, have things thrown at them, or dogs are allowed to chase them. While there are "park bears" in the Smokies and other places, even they are skittish around people for the most part. Having had encounters with black bears over my 50 years in the back country too numerous to count, I have yet to run across one that was aggressive and caused me concern for my safety. Brown bear would fit that description however.

[Hang R]

Bear hunting does bring a lot of revenue to the state from out of state hunters. How a ban would affect the state and the DIWF budget would a big concern for me if I was from the state. I do know that the Maine warden service is often called upon for assistance with all kinds of activities not directly related to hunting and fishing. They participate in a good number of search and rescues, including for those of us who hike. With the elimination of this hunting I could foresee a reduction in their budget which could affect these types of search and rescue operations that is being funded by hunters.

The best people to decide on this issue is the wildlife biologists and conservation professionals with the state officials.

[Minos]

Bear hunting does bring a lot of revenue to the state from out of state hunters. How a ban would affect the state and the DIWF budget would a big concern for me if I was from the state. I do know that the Maine warden service is often called upon for assistance with all kinds of activities not directly related to hunting and fishing. They participate in a good number of search and rescues, including for those of us who hike. With the elimination of this hunting I could foresee a reduction in their budget which could affect these types of search and rescue operations that is being funded by hunters.

The best people to decide on this issue is the wildlife biologists and conservation professionals with the state officials.


Are people still eating bear or is this all about circus?

[runt13]

I had back bear steaks last night, they are truly delicious.

RUNT ''13''

[saltysack]

Definitely ban the use of dogs, bait and traps. Be men and hunt without dogs. We use dogs down here in TN and it's a circus. I call it ethnic cleansing. Occasionally we have "organized hunts" in a 5 or 6 day period with 400 hunters and a thousand dogs. The dogs are the real pests as they are left unsupervised in the woods for days at a time, and glom onto the nearest backpacker to steal his food and run hiding into his tent and claw his thermarest.

Maine has a human population of 1,328,000. It has a black bear pop. of around 30,000. So, which is doing the most habitat destruction? Humans love to call what they do "harvesting" or "culling" to make the bear habitat more sustainable. What about the overcrowded human habitat?

+1......Well said


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Odd Man Out]

FYI. It looks like it went down, but not by an overwhelming margin. 53.4% No

http://ballotpedia.org/Maine_Bear_Hunting_Ban_Initiative,_Question_1_%282 014%29