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chall
09-30-2014, 13:05
It's that time of year again where the search for cheaper down jackets begins. Here is a contender:

Uniqlo Ultralight Down (http://www.uniqlo.com/us/men/outerwear/ultra-light-down.html)

They offer a variety of parka, jacket, and vest options. I couldn't find any weights listed, but you can see how small these pack down.

2Ply
09-30-2014, 13:22
I bought their hooded parka last year and a vest just last month. I was a little worried about them holding up to out door use but they seem to be fine. The zipper is not as heavy duty as I would like but so far it hasn't been a problem. Right now they are out of a lot of the sizes and colors but will have them restocked soon.

Dogwood
09-30-2014, 14:16
I wonder if this is the same company that makes tennis strings, tennis apparel, and has signed Novak Djokovic to wear their clothes?

The male model wearing the sweater vest, tie and down jacket while holding the coffee(Strawbucks?) gazing out the window with a brazen I'm going to conquer the world facial expression is a bit over the top though. Other than that, if you want affordable down here it is. THX Chall.

Mags
09-30-2014, 14:53
Funny. I bought a parka (really a jacket with a hood) last Feb on clearance for ~$55. I am writing up a review for the coming issue of Trail Groove magazine. :)

Dogwood
09-30-2014, 14:57
Funny. I bought a parka (really a jacket with a hood) last Feb on clearance for ~$55. I am writing up a review for the coming issue of Trail Groove magazine. :)

Do you also wear a sweater vest under the parka? with a pocket protector? Workplace shabby sheik or impress that client first date?

bangorme
09-30-2014, 15:00
I bought one from Lands End when they were on sale this Spring. Was warm and held up. They sell "Tall" sizes, which is something I need.

Mags
09-30-2014, 16:11
Do you also wear a sweater vest under the parka? with a pocket protector? Workplace shabby sheik or impress that client first date?

For a $60, 750 FP (American, 640 FP European), well made parka I just may!

chall
09-30-2014, 16:17
I wonder if this is the same company that makes tennis strings, tennis apparel, and has signed Novak Djokovic to wear their clothes?

The male model wearing the sweater vest, tie and down jacket while holding the coffee(Strawbucks?) gazing out the window with a brazen I'm going to conquer the world facial expression is a bit over the top though. Other than that, if you want affordable down here it is. THX Chall.

Nothing says success quite like it.

Dogwood
09-30-2014, 19:08
Nothing says success quite like it.

What, a Starbucks latte venti, sweater vest, or the tie?:D

Dogwood
09-30-2014, 19:14
For a $60, 750 FP (American, 640 FP European), well made parka I just may!

Now you can slap a Patagoochi logo on it and prance around in Boulder with the other Yupps. :D
In 06 on the AT there was a hiker doing just that. He had obviously hand written Patagonia with a black marker on a jacket that was not made by Patagonia. I thought it was kinda funny. He had forgot to tear off the generic label when some other hikers called him on this. Later I saw him removing the no Patagoochi label.

saltysack
09-30-2014, 20:19
Patagonia, Montbell, OR, Marmot are $$$$$ but every piece I've bought from them I've been very happy with durability,performance and last but not least support! I'm all for saving $ but would rather pay more for something that last!


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mattjv89
09-30-2014, 20:21
I guess it depends how low is low cost to you, but Montbell's pricing seems to be towards the low end. The Frost Line parka I just got has 6.7 oz. of 800 fill for $219 MSRP. I'm accustomed to seeing well north of $300 for stuff in the 6-8 oz. fill range. It's nowhere near cold enough to really test it yet (pre-season clearance on "last year's" color) but the quality seems good, and that rough pricing line seems to hold true with their other garments.

saltysack
09-30-2014, 21:05
I bought the ul down parks a few years back ... It is well worth the $$...as was the patagoochie exped weight cap 4 hoody...great warmth to hike or sleep in...my fav 2 winter gear pieced


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daddytwosticks
10-01-2014, 07:18
I usually shop at Wal-Mart for most of my hiking clothing. Am I cool or what? :)

Sailing_Faith
10-01-2014, 08:25
I usually shop at Wal-Mart for most of my hiking clothing. Am I cool or what? :)

Does it keep you warm? If so, not cool.... Definitely not cool. ;)

HYOH..... Or something like that.

HooKooDooKu
10-01-2014, 10:21
I usually shop at Wal-Mart for most of my hiking clothing. Am I cool or what? :)

Does it keep you warm?
I got in on that deal that was discussed here last winter about some $50ish down jackets at Wal-Mart selling for about $25... perhaps the best clothing deal I made all year. It's been perfect for my three season camping. It's done an excellent job keeping me warm when temps are in the 30's and 40's.

chall
10-01-2014, 12:20
I got in on that deal that was discussed here last winter about some $50ish down jackets at Wal-Mart selling for about $25... perhaps the best clothing deal I made all year. It's been perfect for my three season camping. It's done an excellent job keeping me warm when temps are in the 30's and 40's.

I believe I started that thread! I keep these coming just for Dogwood's comments. :D

Chair-man
10-01-2014, 13:25
It's that time of year again where the search for cheaper down jackets begins. Here is a contender:

Uniqlo Ultralight Down (http://www.uniqlo.com/us/men/outerwear/ultra-light-down.html)

They offer a variety of parka, jacket, and vest options. I couldn't find any weights listed, but you can see how small these pack down.

I believe you generally get what you pay for.

Since I couldn't find the specs on the Uniqlo web site I thought I'd give them a call on the # they had listed 1-855-486-4756 (1-855-4UNIQLO). The rep told me the fill power of the down was 640 and that the total weight of the U L parka was 7oz. When I asked how much of the 7oz was from the down, she couldn't tell me. The down itself is only 90 percent and 10 percent other feathers.

I also asked about any DWR on the nylon shell and she seemed confused. I asked if the nylon shell repelled water and she said yes that it did but not for long. I suspect the parka is not DWR treated.

So, compared to one of the most popular quality parkas, the Montbell U.L. Down Parka (http://The down itself is only 90 percent and 10 percent other feathers.), I'm sure there are other quality issues too. As the old adage goes "let the buyer beware". You don't get something for nothing.

chall
10-01-2014, 14:33
I believe you generally get what you pay for.

Since I couldn't find the specs on the Uniqlo web site I thought I'd give them a call on the # they had listed 1-855-486-4756 (1-855-4UNIQLO). The rep told me the fill power of the down was 640 and that the total weight of the U L parka was 7oz. When I asked how much of the 7oz was from the down, she couldn't tell me. The down itself is only 90 percent and 10 percent other feathers.

I also asked about any DWR on the nylon shell and she seemed confused. I asked if the nylon shell repelled water and she said yes that it did but not for long. I suspect the parka is not DWR treated.

So, compared to one of the most popular quality parkas, the Montbell U.L. Down Parka (http://The down itself is only 90 percent and 10 percent other feathers.), I'm sure there are other quality issues too. As the old adage goes "let the buyer beware". You don't get something for nothing.

Nice detective work!

Mags
10-01-2014, 15:54
Be aware, that the 640 FP is the European scale, so roughly 750 FP on the American scale. The 90/10 ratio very common for most (all?) down garments.

BPL had a very thorough thread on this. Here is one review: http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/reviews/display_reviews.html?forum_thread_id=86403

The new garments are also DWR.


Updated with special aluminum printing on the lining that traps and retains body heat to keep you warmer than ever. Water repellent.

http://www.trailspace.com/gear/other/uniqlo-down-ultralight-parka/

I suspect the customer service person you spoke to may not be overly familiar with more technical aspects.

The cheaper price, I suspect, is that quite frankly it is a 75/25 reason. 75% the fact that Uniqlo sells in much larger volume vs outdoor retailers. Perhaps 25% quality. In other words, if this was a house brand jacket from REI or LL Bean, it may be an ~$150 one.

Chair-man
10-01-2014, 16:35
Be aware, that the 640 FP is the European scale, so roughly 750 FP on the American scale. The 90/10 ratio very common for most (all?) down garments.

BPL had a very thorough thread on tihis.

Almost all quality down companies in the US give the an EN 13537 rating (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EN_13537) for the down in their products. I'd be leery of down product that doesn't. More info on fill power (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fill_power).

Mags, what scale are your referring to?

Tuckahoe
10-01-2014, 16:59
Chair-man, am I missing something? Because as far as I understand EN13537 is the standard for a sleeping bag's temperature rating, and I do not recall ever seeing it used for down clothing. The only thing that I have ever seen as far as a specification for down clothing was the fill power of the down and then the weight of down used as to how well the down garment would insulate.

As far as the scale that Mags is refering to, it is explained in your own link to Wikipedia's page on fill power --

US 2000 norm: cylinder diameter: 241 mm conditioning: steaming +3 to 5 days in a screen box compression cylinder: non-mechanized cylinder of 68,3 grams. Mass of the sample: 1 oz = 28,4 grams.

EN norm: cylinder diameter: 284mm, conditioning: tumble dry +2–5 days in a screen box compression cylinder: Lorch machine = mechanized cylinder weighing 94,25 grams, Mass of the sample:30 grams

Mags
10-01-2014, 17:34
Chair-man, am I missing something? Because as far as I understand EN13537 is the standard for a sleeping bag's temperature rating, and I do not recall ever seeing it used for down clothing. The only thing that I have ever seen as far as a specification for down clothing was the fill power of the down and then the weight of down used as to how well the down garment would insulate.

As far as the scale that Mags is refering to, it is explained in your own link to Wikipedia's page on fill power --

My understanding is that the EN scale is, currently, for sleeping bags only as well.

A more direct of American vs European (Lorch) scale of Fill power
http://www.facewest.co.uk/Down-Fill-Power.html

Note that even the above link is not definitive.

And the ubertechnical thread from BPL:


http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=86473&startat=20

Chair-man
10-01-2014, 18:33
Thanks Mags & Tuckahoe64. You are right the EN13537 is for sleeping bags. Thanks for straightening mi out on that and thanks for the links.

From Mag's link - For US fill powers 800 and above then subtract 50 to get the Lorch result. For US Fill Powers below 800, subtract 25 to get the Lorch result. For fill powers below 600 no adjustment is needed.

So, I would say any difference between EU and US fill power is negligible with a fill power of 640.

The big problem with the Uniqlo parka is they don't list the fill weight so you really don't know how much down your getting. Unlike the Montbell U L Down Parks which weighs 9oz with a fill weight of 2.5oz. (http://www.montbell.us/products/disp.php?p_id=2301156)

Mags
10-01-2014, 20:32
From Mag's link - For US fill powers 800 and above then subtract 50 to get the Lorch result. For US Fill Powers below 800, subtract 25 to get the Lorch result. For fill powers below 600 no adjustment is needed.

So, I would say any difference between EU and US fill power is negligible with a fill power of 640.




Er no. Since the scale is in European for the Uniqlo, it is actually +75-100FP depending (The Lorch scale is not 100% definitive either). You are reversing the math. :) Which is why most people say the FP for the Uniqlo is 700+ If you really want to get into the numbers, read the BPL link (http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=86473&startat=20). Simply adding the numbers to Euro scale does not seem to work quite as well (more to do with the math in the wiki article you referenced). Beyond me I must confess.

Or heck, here's the chief number cruncher's review again if you want the Q&D without all the above numbers.
Some internet sleuthing will find estimates that this FP may translate to perhaps 740 (give or take) on a USA scale
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/reviews/display_reviews.html?forum_thread_id=86403

The short answer is that the American scale tends to have an inflated number; European/Asian less so.

As a further aside, the Men's L of the Uniqlo weighs 10.0 w/o the stuff sack. :)

I've been using it since February. I can honestly say while it may not have all the bells and whistles of the $175+ dollar jackets, it is very good for the price. Reviews from several experienced outdoors people have been consistent as well.

Chair-man
10-01-2014, 22:16
Ok, so after looking into the Uniqlo parka some more I see that it does indeed have water repellency (http://www.uniqlo.com/us/special/uld2014/), some kind of aluminum print liner to reflect heat and a zipper that prevents drafts. These are all good but not disclosing what the fill weight is would be a deal breaker for me.

gbolt
10-02-2014, 09:27
Funny. I bought a parka (really a jacket with a hood) last Feb on clearance for ~$55. I am writing up a review for the coming issue of Trail Groove magazine. :)

Looking forward to the review. However, can you comment on sizing and if it is possible to forego the stuff sac and store it in it's pocket to cut weight?

Turk6177
10-02-2014, 10:30
I just used their vest on the John Muir Trail. It kept me fairly warm when I wore a fleece under it. I would not rely on this for anything in the 20's or below. It is light weight and packs really small. I guess if you have a good sleeping bag, if it gets any colder than this vest can handle, you can get in your bag for the night..

Mags
10-02-2014, 11:08
Looking forward to the review. However, can you comment on sizing and if it is possible to forego the stuff sac and store it in it's pocket to cut weight?

I never use a stuff sack with any jacket FWIW. The cut is not overly box like many budget jackets but is not an extreme athletic fit either.

I'll leave other deets for the review. :)

RockDoc
10-02-2014, 16:15
Save the money somewhere else and go for a MontBell, about $110 on sale. This is an important item. Save money only on non-important items.

Dogwood
10-02-2014, 16:18
First, thanks to Chall for bringing this company and apparel to our attention. Likewise, thanks to Mags for the review; I'm looking forward to perusing it.

Here's a suggestion when seeking to get a good deal on name brand down jackets/vests with KNOWN and easy to find THOROUGH detailed specifications sold by companies specializing in hiking gear with KNOWN excellent track records in regards to customer service histories and KNOWN yrs of being in the outdoor apparel biz that typically have a conscientious eye on ever improving their products. Do NOT take this approach: "It's that time of year again where the search for cheaper down jackets begins." Here's but a few of the down pieces I bought ALWAYS out of season usually in the summer at discount. YES, there are many ways to score an excellent price on quality down jackets/vests, beginning by NOT buying right now. It's the worst time to score the BEST prices on fall/winter down apparel!

From ProLite(EXCELLENT customer service by a company that lives and breathes backpacking gear, I've ALWAYS been able to get EVERY spec and user question easily answered in a professional timely manner as well as avoiding return fees and return hassles - we might review Uni-Glos policies in this regard and compare!) RAB 750 fp(about 850 fp American) Pertex Microlight Vest. Bought out of season for $70 total applying a 20% coupon that ProLite had sent me 4 yrs ago. ProLite w/ no hassle or additional cost replaced this vest for me because of a damaged zipper. I've seen this vest advertised elsewhere for as low as $70 recently.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=25623&startat=20

http://climbhigh.com/index.php/rab-microlight-vest.html?gclid=CK7V9_nYjsECFYVDMgodMC8AAw

From BackCountry(Again EXCELLENT customer service that strongly stands by what they sell and has knowledgeable professional people on staff that can usually quickly answer detailed spec questions in a timely and professional manner). Montbell Down Inner Jacket(no longer made) w/ 800 fp. I bought in summer for $65 in the color I wanted.

http://www.backcountry.com/montbell-ultralight-down-inner-jacket-mens-mtb0118

From Breck Sports/Patagonia Outlet on Main St I bought a last yr's discontinued version Patagonia UL Down Sweater w/ 800 fp for $76. I had to settle for a blue color but, hey the jacket regularly goes for more than twice that amount.

http://www.patagonia.com/us/product/mens-ultralight-down-jacket?p=84756-0

I could also get into the details of buying other quality high end down jackets and vests out of season or at huge discounts(more than 60% off retail!) from BackCountry, GoLite(their outlets are great places for huge discounts!), Campmor, Mountain Hardware(I bought a Ghost Whisperer Jacket for my nephew for $90), various consignment shops, outfitters, etc.

Bluegrass
10-02-2014, 16:58
I was looking at GoLite's 2013 Demaree 800 Fill Jacket - http://www.golite.com/Mens-Demaree-800-Fill-Down-Jacket-2013-P46942.aspx in their Denver store over Labor Day.

I ended up going with the 2014 version, which they had listed at $120, with 10% Labor Day sale. I have been happy with it.

I would trust something like that far more than the Uniqlo.

Mags
10-02-2014, 17:20
re: Buying off, or end of, season

That's how/when I bought my GoLite Bitteroot. Saved quite a bit of money buying it in March IIRC. The uniqlo jacket for less then $60 was bought in February. I mainly bought the parka because of the hood.

Dogwood
10-02-2014, 18:38
OMG, great location that GoLite Denver Outlet on Platte ST. It's a small store but within a 2 block radius I have all my must goto in Denver hot spots: Natural Grocers, GoLite, Wilderness Exchange Unlimited Outfitter that turns over and highly discounts outdoor gear on a seasonal basis to make room for incoming in season gear, REI(great LARGE REI in a restored historic old brick building in a great location on the S. Platte River w/ a very shweet interior climbing wall, this REI has a Starbucks too so can you sit outside on the deck or river watching the kayakers), bike trails, parks, gardens, architecture, and it's only a mile from my hiking buddies house. Prolly my favorite in town and wandering the outdoor gear outlets area when getting off a hike or preparing for a hike anywhere I've been. Seattle REI area is right up there though too. I'd have to say some of the BEST deals on outdoor gear especially hiking gear can be had in Colorado especially in the off season. There are an abundance of used and new consignment outfitter type stores too in Colorado.

Chair-man
10-02-2014, 20:58
I called the IDFL (International Down and Feather Testing Laboratory) (http://www.idfl.com/contact/) today (801 467 7611) and asked if there was a way to compare U.S Fill power ratings against European FP ratings and they said there is no way to compare. They did say that down products made for U.S. sale should be using the U.S. method for testing. So, with that I would say the Uniqlo u l down parka 640 fp is just that, 640 fp.

I've seen no proof that the Uniqlo u l down parka us using the European fp rating anywhere. Uniglo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniqlo) is a Japanese company.

One other down side to the Uniglo parka is it has no draw strings on the hood or at the bottom of the parka.

One bright spot is that this parka can be found for 49.95 under their special collections (http://www.uniqlo.com/us/product/men-ultra-light-down-parka-079122.html) which is not a bad deal for folks on a tight budget.

saltysack
10-02-2014, 21:23
Montbell is also a Japanese product co as snow peak and many gear companies....that's why I try to buy from American cottage companies when possible...Japanese companies make good products unlike crap made in China...


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Wise Old Owl
10-02-2014, 21:47
I called the IDFL (International Down and Feather Testing Laboratory) (http://www.idfl.com/contact/) today (801 467 7611) and asked if there was a way to compare U.S Fill power ratings against European FP ratings and they said there is no way to compare. They did say that down products made for U.S. sale should be using the U.S. method for testing. So, with that I would say the Uniqlo u l down parka 640 fp is just that, 640 fp.

I've seen no proof that the Uniqlo u l down parka us using the European fp rating anywhere. Uniglo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniqlo) is a Japanese company.

One other down side to the Uniglo parka is it has no draw strings on the hood or at the bottom of the parka.

One bright spot is that this parka can be found for 49.95 under their special collections (http://www.uniqlo.com/us/product/men-ultra-light-down-parka-079122.html) which is not a bad deal for folks on a tight budget.


Outstanding!

Mags
10-02-2014, 21:52
Wow..you are really pursuing this one. :)

Did you read the BPL links? Does not seem like it.



"A CLO calculation would put the (Uniqlo)parka around .75 (single layer) x 6.5 (Nisley's 800 down multiplier) x .52 (parka) = 2.5, give or take. For comparison, my UL jacket calculates out to a CLO of 1.4"

"(Remember that their 640 down is "on the Japanese scale" and would be higher on the US scale"

Thank you for contacting the UNIQLO USA Customer Center. Regarding our fill power it is on the Asian scale and is 640 FP."



The geeks on BPL,, believe me, are the most dialed in gear junkies on the planet. They research, compare and hammer out everything. And frankly I'll take their collective info over your lone post.

[QUOTE=Wise Old Owl;1912819]Outstanding!

Actually, no.. :)

I barely understand the CLO, but the 2.5 number makes it roughly equivalent in warmth to the Montbell Alpenlite Down (http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=18950)

As an aside, the IDFL is actually USA based vs the European agencies take from that what you will.

Raw numbers don't lie either way. The geeks at BPL have found the raw numbers far more effectively than myself for sure.

So, to conclude, a good solid jacket that lacks the bells and whistles of a higher end model but whose basic construction is of very good quality.


And, finally, to paraphrase from an old cheesy t-shirt once found for sale : "I am not argumentative, I'm just Italian" :D

Chair-man
10-02-2014, 23:08
Be aware, that the 640 FP is the European scale, so roughly 750 FP on the American scale. The 90/10 ratio very common for most (all?) down garments.


Thank you for contacting the UNIQLO USA Customer Center. Regarding our fill power it is on the Asian scale and is 640 FP."

Mags, first you say it on the European scale then you link to BP light to show me it's on the Asian scale. Which is it?

I've just sent Uniqlo an email requesting information myself. I find it hard to believe they put 5oz of fill weight in their parka. When I called them the other day they told me they didn't know what the fill weight was. I'll let you know when I hear back from Uniqlo.

Mags
10-02-2014, 23:17
Er, um, read the links again please and the other posts. And keep in mind the italics are direct quotes. The one about the fill power is from JANUARY 2014. To make it simple: Think metric vs US measurement system. THe US does things their own unique way. (http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/qna/qna.asp?uqn=693&P=11&SP=&V=3)

As for the first person you spoke to...Ever call your Internet provider with a technical issue? And you get initial customer support? And they do not have the correct technical info?

Just saying. :)

There are three years worth of info from people who researched, contacted people beyond initial customer support and really have their info dialed in. If you can duplicate all the research these gentlemen did, including the math and multiple direct quotes,, then I may say the BPL conclusions are invalid.

And that's all from me.

Bluegrass
10-03-2014, 11:52
OMG, great location that GoLite Denver Outlet on Platte ST. It's a small store but within a 2 block radius I have all my must goto in Denver hot spots: Natural Grocers, GoLite, Wilderness Exchange Unlimited Outfitter that turns over and highly discounts outdoor gear on a seasonal basis to make room for incoming in season gear, REI(great LARGE REI in a restored historic old brick building in a great location on the S. Platte River w/ a very shweet interior climbing wall, this REI has a Starbucks too so can you sit outside on the deck or river watching the kayakers), bike trails, parks, gardens, architecture, and it's only a mile from my hiking buddies house. Prolly my favorite in town and wandering the outdoor gear outlets area when getting off a hike or preparing for a hike anywhere I've been. Seattle REI area is right up there though too. I'd have to say some of the BEST deals on outdoor gear especially hiking gear can be had in Colorado especially in the off season. There are an abundance of used and new consignment outfitter type stores too in Colorado.

Dogwood,

You forgot about the river outfitter (Confluence Kayak) on that block as well. I think there is also a Patagonia store a few blocks down 15th. St.

I am lucky enough that all of this is a short bike ride from my house (City Park, Denver)

Chair-man
10-04-2014, 21:58
I've just sent Uniqlo an email requesting information myself. I find it hard to believe they put 5oz of fill weight in their parka. When I called them the other day they told me they didn't know what the fill weight was. I'll let you know when I hear back from Uniqlo.

OK, so Uniqlo responded to my email and here's what they had to say


Dear William, Thank you for your email regarding our MEN ULTRA LIGHT DOWN PARKA. I would be happy to provide you with information regarding our ultra light down products. Regarding the fill power, for all ultra light down products, the fill power is always at least 640 or more, though I would not have an exact number to provide you. In regards to the fill weight, that information I would not have available. I can advise you that the fill ratio is 90% down, 10% feather filling. For your last question, I do not have the country scale we use to measure the fill power of our ultra light down products. I do apologize. I do hope the information provide helps. For further inquiries and any other concerns, please do not hesitate to call our Customer Center at 1-855-6UNIQLO(1-855-686-4756) or email [email protected]. We would like to thank you for choosing UNIQLO. You are a valued customer and we appreciate your business. Sincerely, Kekai -------------------------------------- On 10/2/2014 7:37:18 PM, <> wrote: -------------------------------------- Hello, I have some questions regarding your mens ultra light down parka. What is the fill power of the down? What is the fill weight (the weight of the down that goes into the parks)? What scale is use to measure the fill power? U.S., European, China (Asian)? Thank you, William

================================================== =============

Ok, so there you have it. I've have now called and emailed Uniqlo and I got the same answers. Fill weight unknown, and testing scale unknown. I would say the reps at Uniqlo have it pretty well dialed in :)

This is going to be my last post on this thread but before I'm done I like to bring up one other thing to consider when purchasing something made of down and that would be cleanliness. see the 3rd review about a bad smell of this parka here. (http://www.uniqlo.com/us/product/men-ultra-light-down-jacket-079121.html)

Here's what the IDFL says about cleanliness. (http://www.idfl.com/info/articles/) Just something to consider when buying cheap down products.

CLEANLINESS OF DOWN AND FEATHER PRODUCTS
IDFL LABORATORY AND INSTITUTE ©2010
Certified Laboratory: IDFB • EDFA • DPSC Member: AATCC • ADFC • ASTM • CFDIA • EDFA • IABFLO • IDFB www.idfl.com (http://www.idfl.com)
IDFL IDFL EUROPE IDFL CHINA
Tel: +1 801 467 7611 Tel: +41 52 765 1574 Tel: +86 571 8273 6561
email: [email protected] email: [email protected] email: [email protected]
Page 1
February 18, 2010
Many companies are asking about cleanliness of down and feather products, especially from
Asia. IDFL offers the following information and guidelines.
Washing, Drying and Sterilizing of Raw Down and Feather Material
The first step of ensuring cleanliness is the down processing plant. Down and feathers are washed at high
temperatures to remove all impurities. During the drying process down and feathers are sterilized. An ISO
certificate is a good sign that the down processing plant is following proper quality assurance procedures.
In order to sell down and feathers in the USA, the down processing plant must receive a sterilization
permit. These permits are usually issued by the State of Pennsylvania. IDFL is authorized by the State of
Pennsylvania to complete the necessary plant inspection required before receiving the sterilization permit.
Please contact IDFL for help in obtaining the sterilization permit.
Cleanliness requirements of finished products
Finished products must meet minimum requirements for cleanliness as follows:
1. Oxygen Number: This test determines the amount of foreign organic matter on the surface of the
down and feathers. To qualify as “clean” the oxygen number must be less than 10. (In some
countries the limit is 20; Japan has a much stricter standard.)
2. Turbidity: This test determines the amount of dust in feather and down products. Clean products
must have a turbidiy of greater than 300 mm. (Japan has a stricter standard.)
3. Special Bioburden Tests: In Europe special microbiological tests can be required to determine
levels of various bacteria or other harmful agents.
Please contact IDFL for testing of product cleanliness.
Special Requirements for Claims of Hypo-allergenic, Super-Clean, etc
The generally accepted industry standards for such claims on packaging or advertising of down and
feather products are as follows:
1. Oxygen number must be 4.8 or less.
2. Turbidity must be 500 mm or greater.
Registration with State Government Agencies in the USA
All manufacturers, importers and down processors must register properly with government officials in 16 of
the 50 USA states.

--------------------------------------------------------------

And Mags, thanks for you help. I know you own one of these parkas so I'm looking forward to your review. Let us know if you detect a funny odor. Thanks again

Mykneeshurt
10-05-2014, 13:11
Patagonia, Montbell, OR, Marmot are $$$$$ but every piece I've bought from them I've been very happy with durability,performance and last but not least support! I'm all for saving $ but would rather pay more for something that last!






I used Montbell down pants and jacket (switched out jacket for vest after Damascus) for Springer to Damascus in 2009 and 2010, then for a complete thru hike in 2013. Pricey, and I was OCD careful with them, but they were great. Warm, light, and allowed me to use a light quilt for sleeping, and have "double use" of the pants and jackets (wore them under my rain gear around camp a lot.). Worth every penny.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. Montbell was great.

Violent Green
10-05-2014, 21:09
For $50-$70, the Uniqlo stuff is pretty awesome. I owned a black parka for about a year or so and it performed great. Draw cords at the waist and hood would have made it the bargain of the century. I ended up adding a plastic snap to help cinch up the hood around the face. I doubt anyone in this thread would be disappointed with their purchase.


Ryan

Mags
10-06-2014, 11:19
And Mags, thanks for you help. I know you own one of these parkas so I'm looking forward to your review. Let us know if you detect a funny odor. Thanks again


Only on me after too many days in the woods. :D

Being serious, I never noticed an odor. More importantly, and I am serious about this, neither did Mrs Mags who is rather blunt in her own charming Teutonic way about odors. If there was an odor, she would let me know! Believe me. :)

lemon b
10-06-2014, 14:48
First frost in Becket, Ma. this following 1.2 inches of rain. Hope your down stayed dry. But the being from the semi North. 30 degrees is not what I call down weather unless I'm in the sleeping bag.

Ground Control
12-08-2014, 10:33
Count me as another satisfied Uniqlo UL Down Parka owner. Had it delivered for $59; super thrilled with that price. I've used in CO over the last 2 months, including during the -12 below deep freeze a few weeks back and one very windy November morning atop Pike's Peak in 60+ mph winds.

No smell reported from me or my wife. I also wish it had draw strings for the hood and waist.

My biggest concern would be the lifespan expectancy of this zipper, which doesn't look terribly durable. (Also, not sure why I got a left-handed zipper; don't recall seeing that option when ordering...)

But it cost me sixty bucks, and I'm thrilled with what I got for that amount of money. The amount I saved here will enable me to focus on more pressing gear needs. Thanks for the suggestion and information that followed.

Mags
12-08-2014, 12:45
re: Zipper on left

Common for EU and Asian market items
http://www.clothingstudy.com/zipper-slider-position-of-slider-slider-locking-system-slider-coding-system-standard-slider/

In my review on TrailGroove, I noted the zipper as being a minus as well.

The lack of a cinching hood is a minus for sure, but seems common to these type of jackets. The lack of a cinching waist is another story.

FWIW, I rec'd a Montbell UL parka recently. The Uniqlo park and the Montbell UL parka are very similar in terms of weight, thickness and warmth. The Montbell UL is more aesthetically pleasing (IMO) has a cinching waist (but, again, no hood), has a slightly stiff brim in the hood which is nice and is 800 FP. The zipper is a bit beefier. A very nice jacket for sure. Mrs Mags thinks the Montbell one is nice enough to wear out in town and likes how it looks on me.

Both are made in China for Japanese companies FWIW


But one is $175..the other is $60. :)

AO2134
12-08-2014, 13:37
I bought a $20 cosco down vest (7 oz). Never used it, and I hiked twice in sub-30 degree weather. Once in sub 20. On both occassions, I used a compression long sleeve gym shirt (8 oz) as baselayer, my regular hiking polyester hiking shirt on top of that (5 oz), a polyester midlayer long sleeve (11 oz) and a walmart $10 wind breaker (12 oz). I never considered putting on the vest. I was doing a short 4 mile night hike on the coldest night of year. I was hiking is 20 degree weather and at night the temp bottomed at 16-7.

I am happy I bought it at only $20, and I will carry it in Nov-Dec-Jan-Feb-March months simply because it only weighs 7 oz and takes up almost no room, but I am not sure if I will ever actually use it.

saltysack
12-08-2014, 13:57
Down for sleep and camp only...imo


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

hikehunter
12-09-2014, 01:38
There were some nice 650 down jackets at SAM'S club that were at the $25 mark. I got one a few years ago that was 800 fill and it works very well as a mid layer.....have used it for sleep and it helps.....it washes in cold and dries on low heat/air..... a little water proof spray and it works well in light rain/mist....for the price it works.....I use a light rain coat as a shell with it and have been go to go hiking in 10 to 20 deg. weather...:cool:

Offshore
12-09-2014, 08:16
For $50-$70, the Uniqlo stuff is pretty awesome. I owned a black parka for about a year or so and it performed great. Draw cords at the waist and hood would have made it the bargain of the century. I ended up adding a plastic snap to help cinch up the hood around the face. I doubt anyone in this thread would be disappointed with their purchase.
Ryan

That's a good approach with realistic expectations. Uniqlo is is a major player in the fast (disposable) fashion sector, where the objective is to spot a trend, produce knock offs, and get to market as quickly as possible. None of the clothing is designed to be premium quality - its really intended to be of the moment. A large percentage of fast fashion items end up in donation bins at the end of the season (Google on "fast fashion"). Uniqlo is fine for what it is, but to expect the same quality or even the availability of technical specifications for down (be they US, European, or Asian) is really kind of naive. Know the limitations of what your getting and as long as it meets your requirements, its all good. But remember, there's a reason its cheap...

rocketsocks
12-09-2014, 09:03
That's a good approach with realistic expectations. Uniqlo is is a major player in the fast (disposable) fashion sector, where the objective is to spot a trend, produce knock offs, and get to market as quickly as possible. None of the clothing is designed to be premium quality - its really intended to be of the moment. A large percentage of fast fashion items end up in donation bins at the end of the season (Google on "fast fashion"). Uniqlo is fine for what it is, but to expect the same quality or even the availability of technical specifications for down (be they US, European, or Asian) is really kind of naive. Know the limitations of what your getting and as long as it meets your requirements, its all good. But remember, there's a reason its cheap...
Couldn't agree more, but in order to truly wear the dirty dreads of non-conformity one needs to dirt bag and deal where they can, only then can a body attain true hiker trash status....shivering all the way. ;) ho ho ho

Mags
12-09-2014, 14:22
$60 for a brand new jacket is hardly dirt-bagging. $10 sure... Unless you have lots of disposable income. :)

Also, I own both the Montbell and the Uniqlo now (one was a freebie).... Functionally, there truly is not that much of a difference (except the price). 800 vs 7xx fill. Similar weight, thickness and warmth. A better zipper on the MB. Cinched waist on the MB. Both do NOT have cinched hoods. The MB looks nicer. Has a stiffer brim which I rather like. The MB is nicer....is it $115 nicer? You, your wallet and intended use have to decide.

As for why it is cheaper.. "economy of scale" comes to mind. ;)


All from China..all have a huge markup. Some just are able to command a better price out of whack to how much "better" it may be. Different markets = different price scale.

Chair-man
12-09-2014, 18:28
$60 for a brand new jacket is hardly dirt-bagging. $10 sure... Unless you have lots of disposable income. :)

Also, I own both the Montbell and the Uniqlo now (one was a freebie).... Functionally, there truly is not that much of a difference (except the price). 800 vs 7xx fill. Similar weight, thickness and warmth. A better zipper on the MB. Cinched waist on the MB. Both do NOT have cinched hoods. The MB looks nicer. Has a stiffer brim which I rather like. The MB is nicer....is it $115 nicer? You, your wallet and intended use have to decide.

As for why it is cheaper.. "economy of scale" comes to mind. ;)


All from China..all have a huge markup. Some just are able to command a better price out of whack to how much "better" it may be. Different markets = different price scale.

Hi Mags, it's me again. How you been buddy? I see the debate goes on. You forgot to mention that one has high quality ballistic airlight nylon shell the other one does not. Also, one has a high quality polkatex DWR finish that works well and last a long time. Sadly, the bargain basement 650 fill parka does not. Again, you get what you pay for.

Mags
12-09-2014, 19:10
Again, you get what you pay for.


No doubt!

I have an excellent, functional jacket that has kept me warm in the Colorado, New Mexico and Utah backcountry at a good price. No frills, no fuss. not a five star jacket..but $60 for a four star jacket..wow!

You paid a high premium for what you paid for. :)

Do you honestly believe it is $115 difference worth better?

Since I own and have used both, I am gong to say "no".

You believe otherwise apparently based on...????

I think the question we should be asking not why is something so cheap, but if a good quality four-star jacket is $60, why are the five star jackets three-times or more for the price? With a median income of 54k a year for the USA, (http://money.cnn.com/2014/08/20/news/economy/median-income/) $60 is NOT cheap. It is affordable. A little over two hours of work.

$175 OTOH, is almost full day's work for someone making 54k/yr.

There are, of course, a multitude of reasons why high end outdoor gear is so expensive..but I think the biggest reason is that people seem convinced a high price should be paid for five-star outdoor gear is this: That is what the market will take for outdoor gear. The typically affluent consumer is willing to pay $175 for a jacket with"ballistic airlight nylon shell" and "high quality polkatex DWR finish".

At the end, it is just nylon and goose down made at a factory in China.

One IS better than the other. No doubt. I love the Montbell. A touch loftier, better zipper, nicer design..and it was free. :) But is it truly that much better? Naaaah.

But don't think one is cheap...one is affordable and the other is priced for the more affluent consumer who buys these products overall. Capitalism is a beautiful thing. People buying the highly (over?)priced, but only somewhat better, items are what is fueling the popularity of the more reasonably priced items.

Thank you!

rocketsocks
12-09-2014, 19:32
$60 for a brand new jacket is hardly dirt-bagging. $10 sure... Unless you have lots of disposable income. :)

Also, I own both the Montbell and the Uniqlo now (one was a freebie).... Functionally, there truly is not that much of a difference (except the price). 800 vs 7xx fill. Similar weight, thickness and warmth. A better zipper on the MB. Cinched waist on the MB. Both do NOT have cinched hoods. The MB looks nicer. Has a stiffer brim which I rather like. The MB is nicer....is it $115 nicer? You, your wallet and intended use have to decide.

As for why it is cheaper.. "economy of scale" comes to mind. ;)


All from China..all have a huge markup. Some just are able to command a better price out of whack to how much "better" it may be. Different markets = different price scale.
Nope, sure isn't, not in my manual. But price is not the only thing I look at when working my magic. I'd be feeling for excessive amounts of quills and checking the quilting for blowouts and herniated tubes. Now that said if I came across a western mountaineering flash parka for 60 bucks...to me that's a score, so my dirt bag scale does side a bit.

Chair-man
12-09-2014, 20:33
but $60 for a four star jacket..wow!

Mags, I think you're being way too generous with those stars. I'd say 2 stars maybe 3 stars for the Uniqlo at the most.

I believe the Uniqlo doesn't have any draw cords for the hem or hood. I know the Montbell has a hem draw cord in the pockets. Mags, does your Montbell U L have a draw cord in the hood also?

I don't own either of these parkas but I do own a Montbell UL vest. I'm still shopping for that U L parka.

Mags
12-09-2014, 20:46
]
I believe the Uniqlo doesn't have any draw cords for the hem or hood. I know the Montbell has a hem draw cord in the pockets. Mags, does your Montbell U L have a draw cord in the hood also?



It does not.



I don't own either of these parkas

Nuff said.

Chair-man
12-09-2014, 21:59
It does not.

thanks Mags