View Full Version : Caldera Cone Systems
Hello Everyone!
This is my first post in here. Please be kind! I am a yet-to-become ultralight hiker!
I am thinking of getting a Trail Designs Caldera system for a soon-to-be-bought Titanium Evernew 1.3L.
I am trying to be as light as possible and the Evernew 1.3L pot will be my system for two-person hiking. Any feedback on that pot?
It is my understanding that this non non-stick titanium pot might not be the greatest choice for real cooking but I will probably mostly use it for boiling water and I do not want to potentially scratch non-stick coatings.
Anyone cook stuff (more than water) in this pot?
For this pot, it is possible to get either a Sidewinder or a Fissure (more expensive) Caldera Ti-Tri system. Both of them should be able to be packed within the Evernew 1.3L pot, tent stake included. I understand the packing philosophy behind the two systems and the fact that the Fissure System might be easier/smaller to "fold" within the pot.
-Any of you have any recommendation as to which system is better?
-Are these two systems using an alcohol stove sufficient to boil water for two persons? (I already have a canister system for longer hikes)
-Does the Sidewinder system leave enough room to store the required tent stakes inside the Evernew 1.3L pot?
-Does the Fissure system leave significantly more room than the Sidewinder system inside the pot to store some other cooking stuff?
-Are the rivets used to attach the two-cones of the Fissure system strong enough to withstand long-term trail usage?
(What if one of the rivets pops-off and render the system unusable? The Sidewinder might be simpler and therefore more fail-safe or am I paranoid?)
Sorry for all these questions. It is a significant investment (for a stove) and I want to make sure I don't have to buy it twice!
Thanks for any feedback,
Minos
Welcome, Minos!! :)
If you want to save money, consider other options for the pot. For example, the IMUSA grease strainer, or the Stanco grease strainer, both available at Walmart or on Amazon. The IMUSA is 1.5 quarts (1.4 L). The Stanco is a bit smaller, at 30 oz or 0.88 L. Filled to the brim, it could feed two people if their appetite is not too ravenous ha ha. :) Both cost less than $10, look for them at your local Walmart! The Stanco is lighter at about 4 oz (WOW!!) and the IMUSA is about 8 oz.
Now I love buying a shiny new piece of gear as much as the next hiker. (I haven't personally used the Caldera Cone system) But if you are nervous about spending $100 for this item, then there are definitely other options available. You could even continue to use your canister! (some canister stoves like the MSR Pocket Rocket come close to alcohol systems in weight and are much more convenient) Or you could try making your own alcohol stove, or you could buy an alcohol stove for a reasonable price and just use aluminum foil for a wind screen.
Just some options to think about! I know it seems like there are a million choices out there and you might feel overwhelmed! But relax - it's just a stove. Worst case scenario you can always start a fire to boil water :)
http://www.amazon.com/Imusa-Aluminum-Grease-Dipsenser-Quart/dp/B0018EA048
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000MVTIOQ/
Hello Minos. I don't like the the caldera cone systems for a few reasons. Weight wise it doesnt save alot when you factor in the windscreen, caddy, fuel, etc, and i dislike the "bulk" it adds to my pack. You will find that a simply Ti pot (or Al) with a pocketrocket (or similar) will save both weight and space. As Quasar also stated, simply start a fire and put your pot on it, and for this reason i would avoid jetboils and coated metal pots. If weight is your primary concern a simple cat can stove and Al foil windscreen is your best option, as you can always use the pot over open fire as well.
Starchild
10-05-2014, 07:40
Just a note about the *mart grease pot, you want the Kmart one not the Walmart one. The difference is the rim, the Kmart one rolls outwards, the Walmart one inwards and is known harder to clean, also I believe the cone system is dependent on a outward rim to hold the pot. Additional note on this choice, there is no handle so requires some home made thing or some sort of potholder, both take the weight up and overall weight gets disappointing.
Starchild
10-05-2014, 07:49
-Are these two systems using an alcohol stove sufficient to boil water for two persons? (I already have a canister system for longer hikes)
The standard 12-10 stove included with most of the cone's is a very good one in that it does produce lots of heat for it's size. I would not expect any problem getting water to boil for 2 people with it. OTOH the Zelph modified Starlyte stove option does not have anywhere the same heat output. If you yank out the restrictor plate, you basically turn it into a Starlyte, and that works OK but the 12-10 stove still does have more heat output. That said the Starlyte is a very nice and durable stove, while the 12-10 is more delicate and is not the best at recovering unused fuel.
Like most threads on here, there are two sides to every debate, so I will stand up for the Caldera Cone System. I purchased the $34 system this summer to go with my Snow Peak Hybrid Summit Titanium pot. Like you, I did a great deal of research and thought about the more expensive options. However, in the end I wanted mainly the alcohol stove above the esbit, wood, or other methods of heat. There is some "bulk" to the complete container system yet, I usually break the system down and leave some pieces at home to cut weight. The bottom line for me is a little added weight for the windscreen is offset by the decrease in boil times and saving fuel oz. Ultimately, lighteweight and ease of use will continue to push my journey as to the "best stove" debate. I have gone from the MSR Whisperlite to the Caldera Cone. I am pretty sure that sooner or later, I may try the pocket rocket canister; but for the time being, I am set and do enjoy my current set up. You can't go wrong with the Caldera System.
Slo-go'en
10-05-2014, 11:34
I'm not familiar with the particular Caldera system the OP is taking about, but I have been using the Caldera Cone system for some time and it is very good. I really don't think you can get a much lighter or efficient system.
The main thing I like about the cone is the wide base, making it very stable. I've had a few meals lost to unstable picnic tables and the pot balanced on a tiny stove.
I can roll up my cone and slide it into the cardboard tube from a paper towel roll so it takes up little space.
Cardboard tube from a paper towel roll! Thanks for the suggestion.
Unless things have changed, several of their models allow the wind screen to fit within the pot. I have a 850ml pot with a ULC system and it all fits within the little pot, no caddy, tube etc. I believe Trail Designs also has some of the best engineering AND customer service around.
MuddyWaters
10-05-2014, 12:29
I use a 1.3L evernew for 2P. Homemade windscreen (0.85oz) that fits in, wiremesh pot stand (0,25 oz), and large tealight cup (0.1oz) for burner. Boils 4 cups on 0.9 oz (weight) alcohol.
I personally think the caldera setups are far too heavy. However, they suit many peoples needs. When an alcohol setup becomes heavier than a cannister, whats the point?
I like alcohol regardless myself, its quiet in the woods and easy to monitor fuel.
Slo-go'en
10-05-2014, 16:41
I personally think the caldera setups are far too heavy.
Far too heavy? The cone for my 750 ml MSR pot is 1.7 oz and the stove 0.6 oz, total 2.3 oz. My Snow Peak burner is 2.4 oz.
So, the only real difference between a Caldera setup and Canister stove is the weight -and cost - of the fuel. The weight is roughly the same, with the canister never going below the weight of the metal can it's self. A lot of hikers carry two small canisters because they are afraid of running out. A mostly empty small canister (the only one I have on hand to weigh) weighs about 6 oz. I have a feeling that long term, using alcohol is less expensive then using canisters, but that's a bit hard to prove one way of the other.
Sure you can make a slightly lighter alcohol stove set up then the Caldera cone, but not by much and the efficiency of cone setup is such that I believe the savings in fuel makes up for that difference.
Thanks everyone for welcoming me and taking part in the discussion!
I have a canister setup but I usually fly wherever I hike and airlines prevent me from bringing a canister to my destination. Finding a REI is not always an option whereas finding alcohol is easier. Plus if I want to reach a NP as soon as possible (which I usually do), I end up looking for canister in the middle of the night or making long detours to find canisters. So this is why I am thinking of alcohol.
I am not so much into fire and burning wood. Even though I love a nice wood-fire, I do not like the smell of wood in my clothes. If I have limited change on a backcountry hike, I really don't like going to bed with stuff that smell smoke.
Just to make thing clearer, the Caldera system I am looking at are the newer Sidewinder or Fissure. Both of these should, to my knowledge, completely pack within the pot (contrary to the initial system which needed an extra caddy). I am now investigating whether the Fissure packs significantly more efficiently to warrant the higher price and whether it is robust enough with its four rivets dual-cone system.
I am also wondering whether one can also use a narrower pot that the one the Caldera system is designed for, provided we use tent stakes to put the mug, and provided we accept a decrease in heating efficiency. In that case, maybe a duo system for a 1.3L pot could handle also a 0.9L pot/mug whenever I hike solo.
Thanks for all suggestions. Will look into the grease pots too.
Minos
kayak karl
10-05-2014, 19:36
email Andrew at
[email protected]
he will answer specific questions about the systems and tell him i said HI :)
Slosteppin
10-05-2014, 20:23
Thanks everyone for welcoming me and taking part in the discussion!
I have a canister setup but I usually fly wherever I hike and airlines prevent me from bringing a canister to my destination. Finding a REI is not always an option whereas finding alcohol is easier. Plus if I want to reach a NP as soon as possible (which I usually do), I end up looking for canister in the middle of the night or making long detours to find canisters. So this is why I am thinking of alcohol.
I am not so much into fire and burning wood. Even though I love a nice wood-fire, I do not like the smell of wood in my clothes. If I have limited change on a backcountry hike, I really don't like going to bed with stuff that smell smoke.
Just to make thing clearer, the Caldera system I am looking at are the newer Sidewinder or Fissure. Both of these should, to my knowledge, completely pack within the pot (contrary to the initial system which needed an extra caddy). I am now investigating whether the Fissure packs significantly more efficiently to warrant the higher price and whether it is robust enough with its four rivets dual-cone system.
I am also wondering whether one can also use a narrower pot that the one the Caldera system is designed for, provided we use tent stakes to put the mug, and provided we accept a decrease in heating efficiency. In that case, maybe a duo system for a 1.3L pot could handle also a 0.9L pot/mug whenever I hike solo.
Thanks for all suggestions. Will look into the grease pots too.
Minos
I have both the original Caldera with the caddy an a Sidewinder setup. I also have 3 different canister stoves, 3 other alcohol stoves and a Solo stove woodburner. I would suggest only using the cone with the pot it was designed for. They designed the cone to hold the pot at the best height above the 12-10 stove for maximum efficiency. I have used the Inferno cone but did not like it for woodburning. Esbit works very well with the Caldera system but (I think) alcohol boils water boils water faster.
If I plan to burn Alcohol I use the Sidewinder and carry Esbit for backup. If I want to burn wood I carry the Solo stove with Esbit for backup.
I agree with karl, customer service is very good.
Starchild
10-05-2014, 20:27
...I do not like the smell of wood in my clothes. If I have limited change on a backcountry hike, I really don't like going to bed with stuff that smell smoke....
To each their own but after a few shower-less days in the woods a 'smoke bath' can be welcome.
Starchild
10-05-2014, 20:44
A lot of hikers carry two small canisters because they are afraid of running out.
However a lot do not, and one should not assume that they will just because other hikers do, see below.
A mostly empty small canister (the only one I have on hand to weigh) weighs about 6 oz.
A empty (small) canister is almost exactly 100g, which is much closer to 3 oz and no where near the 6 oz you state. Full it weights 200g or closer to the 6 oz you state, so 100g of fuel. This canister would boil about/over 10 L of water using the Jetboil, so slightly less with other set ups.
Knowing you have 10 L of boiled water in the canister one should be able to determine if a second one (or larger size) is needed, but for many a single small canister is more then enough for 8-10 days cooking breakfast and dinner. So yes some carry an extra canister for their solo weekend, one overnight, hike to make sure they can boil 2 cups of water to rehydrate their FD food plus hopefully, somehow, if the iso-butane gods are willing, have enough fuel to have a hot cup of coffee in the morning before hiking the 3 miles back to their car - yes these hikers, God bless them, are the ones that allow the statement that many hikers carry two canisters.
MuddyWaters
10-05-2014, 23:46
Far too heavy? The cone for my 750 ml MSR pot is 1.7 oz and the stove 0.6 oz, total 2.3 oz. My Snow Peak burner is 2.4 oz.
And my solo setup windscreen is .45 oz, pot stand .23 oz, and stove 0.07 oz for a total of 0.75 oz. It also uses .4 oz alcohol for two cups.
So, like I said, IMO, the caldera is too heavy, even without the caddy, (which is the really ridiculously heavy part of a lot of systems..)
My caddy weighs 3 oz. but one half serves as a bowl , and the other half is a cup, which means, I don't need to carry either one of those separately.
To each their own but after a few shower-less days in the woods a 'smoke bath' can be welcome.
:D So very true!
Hello Everyone!
-Any of you have any recommendation as to which system is better?
Minos
The Sidewinder is best for your needs because:
"I am not so much into fire and burning wood. Even though I love a nice wood-fire, I do not like the smell of wood in my clothes. If I have limited change on a backcountry hike, I really don't like going to bed with stuff that smell smoke."
I didn't read the whole thread but I bought the caldera cone that uses esbit and a Foster's beer can and took it out for the first time this weekend and it's a great little setup. Weighs in at 8 oz for the can, cone, stove, caddy, 3 esbit tabs, and cozy. The can is the cookpot and the caddy is food grade plastic so you have 2 bowls if you'd ever need them.
http://www.traildesigns.com/stoves/caldera-keg-gvp
The Sidewinder is best for your needs because:
"I am not so much into fire and burning wood. Even though I love a nice wood-fire, I do not like the smell of wood in my clothes. If I have limited change on a backcountry hike, I really don't like going to bed with stuff that smell smoke."
Hi Zelph!
Thanks for your reply. I am actually thinking of getting one of your Starlyte for the Caldera system since it is smaller and I like the way it closes. I understand that the modified Starlyte is the way to go for the Caldera system? Btw, will a metallic ring simply laid over the top of the modified Starlyte allow me to simmer? (to somehow mimic the Simmering option you have).
However I am perplexed at your comment.
Why is the Sidewinder better if I am not interested in the wood-burning option?
Is it because with the Sidewinder and the Starlyte I would not need any tent-stake? Or, are there any other reasons?
I have read the previous advice about not using the Caldera with a pot for which it was not designed but do not really understand why? (despite the obvious drop in efficiency).
Where I am also hesitating with the Sidewinder or Fissure is that if I one day elect to go solo with a narrower pot (ie. an Evernew 0.9 or a Snowpeak Trek 0.7) , I am almost guaranteed the Sidewinder won't fit within the pot (due to the smaller pot diameter). However I believe there is a good shot at the Fissure system still being able to be packed within the pot/mug provided the mug is not too short.
On the other side, the rivets on the Fissure. Any feedback on how strong?
Btw, the smoke thing... don't you guy somehow wash/wipe and use deodorant? :)
I said I was duo-hiking... :banana
Thanks!
Minos
Starchild
10-06-2014, 17:36
Hi Zelph!
Thanks for your reply. I am actually thinking of getting one of your Starlyte for the Caldera system since it is smaller and I like the way it closes. I understand that the modified Starlyte is the way to go for the Caldera system? Btw, will a metallic ring simply laid over the top of the modified Starlyte allow me to simmer? (to somehow mimic the Simmering option you have).
I got Zelph's modified Starlyte to work in my Caldera cone and did not like the results in long boil time. On contacting Zelph I found that yes by removing the insert it would act as a (unmodified) Starlyte. I found no issues in using that in 'the cone' Later I did end up using a steal washer as a restrictor to allow more control over cooking and that also worked well.
btw the lid that Zelph offers is great in that it is green and looks really nice but mine cracked and I am :( about it, it would be really nice is Zelph would send me a replacement ;)
I didn't read the whole thread but I bought the caldera cone that uses esbit and a Foster's beer can and took it out for the first time this weekend and it's a great little setup. Weighs in at 8 oz for the can, cone, stove, caddy, 3 esbit tabs, and cozy. The can is the cookpot and the caddy is food grade plastic so you have 2 bowls if you'd ever need them.
http://www.traildesigns.com/stoves/caldera-keg-gvp
This is all I've used for the past five years.
This is all I've used for the past five years.
I've used esbit with a cone for the past several years. Esbit has always been my fuel of choice... The Foster's setup that I just got is a step up from my earlier setup using a 500 ml pot
"Sorry for all these questions. It is a significant investment (for a stove) and I want to make sure I don't have to buy it twice!"
Before spending the "big bucks" for the sidewinder I called and spoke to Rand who is a co-owner of Trail Designs who also designed the Caldera line-up. He will spend as much time on the phone as you need to answer all questions. Go to the source.
Good luck.
"Sorry for all these questions. It is a significant investment (for a stove) and I want to make sure I don't have to buy it twice!"
Before spending the "big bucks" for the sidewinder I called and spoke to Rand who is a co-owner of Trail Designs who also designed the Caldera line-up. He will spend as much time on the phone as you need to answer all questions. Go to the source.
Good luck.
This is true. But I also wanted to have feedback from the users. Especially regarding the reliability/robustness of the fissure system.
Minos
capehiker
10-07-2014, 22:57
I have the Sidewinder set-up with the Zelph Starlyte stove. Everything fits into the pot. I love it dearly.
I got Zelph's modified Starlyte to work in my Caldera cone and did not like the results in long boil time. On contacting Zelph I found that yes by removing the insert it would act as a (unmodified) Starlyte. I found no issues in using that in 'the cone' Later I did end up using a steal washer as a restrictor to allow more control over cooking and that also worked well.
btw the lid that Zelph offers is great in that it is green and looks really nice but mine cracked and I am :( about it, it would be really nice is Zelph would send me a replacement ;)
I'd be glad to send you a free replacement and might even reinforce it some how;) How did you manage to crack it?
Starchild
10-16-2014, 12:08
I'm not sure how I cracked it or it cracked. I used the Starlyte almost exclusively when I was ridgerunning this past spring/summer, which due to the time I have, I ended up doing far more cooking then ever on the trail, also as you see, with how to make it simmer.
My best 2 guesses is that just repeated use, taking on and off the lid a lot, perhaps with some, but not a lot, of sun exposure weakened dried out the plastic. The second possibility is that something got compressed against the lid in my bag and the bending in split it, or some combo of the two perhaps.
Thank you Zelph, I'll PM my address for the replacement.
[QUOTE=Starchild;1915519I used the Starlyte almost exclusively when I was ridgerunning this past spring/summer, which due to the time I have, I ended up doing far more cooking then ever on the trail, also as you see, with how to make it simmer.
.[/QUOTE]
Nice to have the ability to do more real cooking:)
The StarLyte can be made to simmer 2 ways, use a carbon fiber simmer pad or use a Fancey Feast cat food can cut down to the appropriate size as shown in the StarLyte thread here at WB DIY forum.
I got your address so I'll send out the replacement tomorrow.
Nice to have the ability to do more real cooking:)
The StarLyte can be made to simmer 2 ways, use a carbon fiber simmer pad or use a Fancey Feast cat food can cut down to the appropriate size as shown in the StarLyte thread here at WB DIY forum.
I got your address so I'll send out the replacement tomorrow.
What is a "carbon fiber simmer pad" ?
Just curious and google did not return anything...
Minos
grateful 2
10-20-2014, 17:54
I have the Sidewinder set-up with the Zelph Starlyte stove. Everything fits into the pot. I love it dearly.
Me too!!!!!!!
Starchild
10-29-2014, 08:44
Thanks Zelph, got it last week and also looking to try out the oldie but goodie stove. I was looking for some sort of pot stand and now I have one.
What is a "carbon fiber simmer pad" ?
Just curious and google did not return anything...
Minos
it's been hidden up until now. It was available on backpackinglight.com as a special offer and is now open to all.
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/carbon-felt-simmer-pad.php
The Caldera Cone Systems are the best way to go if you can afford it. The StarLyte burner that is offered with it makes it nice because of it's size. It fits easily into the kit/pot with all the rest of the goodies. A definite "plus" is the fact it is spill proof. Western States have fire bans on a lot and the StarLyte is very popular out west because of the non-spill feature.
Starchild
10-29-2014, 16:00
Way to go Zelph a single Starlyte can now boil and simmer. :)
it's been hidden up until now. It was available on backpackinglight.com as a special offer and is now open to all.
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/carbon-felt-simmer-pad.php
The Caldera Cone Systems are the best way to go if you can afford it. The StarLyte burner that is offered with it makes it nice because of it's size. It fits easily into the kit/pot with all the rest of the goodies. A definite "plus" is the fact it is spill proof. Western States have fire bans on a lot and the StarLyte is very popular out west because of the non-spill feature.
Oh great. That looks awesome.
Hopefully you got my email in time.
Minos
I have three Caldera Cone systems, two jetboils, a Trangia and other alchy stoves, a Whisperlite, and admittedly a serious stove problem!! I have the Evernew 1.3L and while I love the pot, it is way more pot than I need for my needs. I don't even bring it for two people. My Foster's or Toaks 850 is big enough for two of us to use on a trip. BTW +3 on the Starlyte by Zelph. I have 3 of them and did a video where I baked in my Foster's pot with one.