Mooning the Cog Railway on Mt. Washington [Archive]

Jack Tarlin

01-16-2003, 15:30

For those of you who don't know what this is all about, the Cog Railway is a nasty, loathsome, noisy, coal-spewing choo-choo train that has been hauling fat tourists up Mt. Washington for nearly a century. For more years than I can rememeber, thru-hikers have chosen to salute this unfortunate and ill-placed piece of modern technology by mooning the bejeezus out of it when they cross the train tracks just below the Washington summit. Not only does it make for truly memorable photographs, but where else will one have the golden opportunity to do this to 400 morbidly obese New York Yankee fans all at one blow? (And incidentally, for those of you who will no doubt be firing off angry comments re. the maturity, tastelessness, and downright incivility of the practice of Cog Moonage, be aware that the passengers simply LOVE it when this happens---far from being offended, they usually applaud).

It is expected that the members of the thru-hiking Class of 2003 will honor this venerable and worthy tradition when they reach New Hampshire, and I thank Ann for bringing it to their attention.

Ann

01-16-2003, 15:48

LMAO...wonderful description of the deed in true Tarlinesque style!!!!!

Waterbuffalo

01-16-2003, 15:52

Jack well Stated!

WB

Jumpstart

01-16-2003, 17:29

Really surprised at the reactions to that statement, especially from the New Hampshirites... You'd think thru-hikers (especially) would know better than to represent the thru-hiking community, which is already looked at with disdain and disgust by most "ordinary" folks, by acting so childish and vulgar.

We didn't and wouldn't, for the simple fact that FAMILIES are the most frequent users of the Cog, and out of respect for the fact that they are on board, trying to enjoy their own type of experience in the mountains.

Hikers are not the only people entitled to the mountains. The cog and auto-roads are the only way for many folks (or should I say, "Fat-tourists-who- bring- money- to- the- economy- in- this state- so -driven- by -tourism -that- without- the- cog- and- things- like- it -we -wouldn't -have- a- pot- to- piss- in?) to take in the splendor of this wonderful state, and stand on a real summit, and I appreciate it for what it is...a nice alternative to the top for people who wouldn't otherwise get to experience the things that we, as thru and section hikers, are fortunate and able enough to undertake.

I ceartainly would take offense if someone moon-ed me while I was on my vacation, and don't kid yourselves that families with impressionable young children don't feel the same way. Why ruin someone else's mountain experience because you feel the need to make a statement? Take your sanctomonious bare-butt somewhere else.

Lone Wolf

01-16-2003, 17:39

I'm with you Jumpstart. Mooning the cog is an asinine thing to do. Would these same mooners do it in front of a school in a trail town? I guess hairy asses and children are different at 6000 feet. Bunch of hypocrites.

Sleepy the Arab

01-16-2003, 18:26

I think it's also worth pointing out that "mooners" risk getting pegged in the bum with chunks of coal thrown by the engineer and co. Shovelling coal all day gives one quite a throwing arm - don't think you're safe when mooning from 50 yards out!

That said, moon it, and moon it good. If the train isn't there when you cross the tracks, wait. Katahdin ain't going anywhere!

Trail Yeti

01-16-2003, 20:17

QUOTE]That said, moon it, and moon it good. If the train isn't there when you cross the tracks, wait. Katahdin ain't going anywhere![/QUOTE]
All I'm gonna say is.....I waited.:D ;) :p

Jack Tarlin

01-18-2003, 13:54

I realized the post encouraging Cog Moonage would result in several outrgaed replies. I was not disappointed.

A few quick questions: On the one side, we have a noisy, smelly, polluting, low-grade coal-burning 19th century monstrousity, that is allowed to exist in a wilderness setting solely because its proprietors have secured a sweetheart-deal longterm lease. Obviously, if anyone wanted to start such a similar venture today, it'd be strangled in the cradle---there's no way such a thing would be permitted today, as it's widely recognized that a polluting train is singularly out of place in a backcountry setting. Oh, let's also consider, when talking about the benefits of the Cog, that 99% of the litter, cigarette butts, etc., that are found atop Mt. Washington originate with the folks who get up the mountain by Train or car; in short, the Cog brings thousands of folks up there who haven't a clue about respecting or properly caring for the very fragile place they've elected to visit.

On the other side, we have a few bare butts, viewed for a few seconds at a distance of a hundred yards or so.

On the whole, I think the Cog is far more objectionable. After all, one is likely to see more bare skin on network television or in the Sunday newspaper fashion advertisements.

Question to the folks who are so put out over the mooning issue: What have YOU done lately to make things better in the White Mountains? Done any Trail maintenance in New Hampshire lately? Believe me, we can always use the help up here. Contributed to a local hiking club? Donated money to land conservancies? Have you done any of these? Or is your sole concern regarding preserving the beauty and serenity of the Whites limited to telling folks to keep their shorts on?

Really, folks, this is silly and a non-issue. The Cog Railway is an affront to the Mountains. It is singularly out of place and is an anachronism that simply doesn't belong there. Hikers, for years, have held the Cog in great disdain, and this is why they salute it. Oh, I should also stress, as I've previously mentioned, that the Cog's passengers LOVE this tradition and are unhappy when it does NOT occur during their rides.

Seriously, folks, this is not the kinda thing that finished off the Roman Empire; I really think there are more important things to get worked up over.

SGT Rock

01-18-2003, 13:58

Got it. Moon the train. Consider it a done deal.

ganj

01-18-2003, 14:42

I had every intention to, however the day we crossed Washington the visibility was probably five feet and freezing rain was coming down. We could only hear the train go by. Dropping my pants at that point would seem to be a self-critiquing item.

Peaks

01-18-2003, 16:59

As usual, right on the mark. Thanks Jack

smokymtnsteve

01-18-2003, 17:10

I'll be damned jack..I agree with ya...

smokymtnsteve

smokymtnsteve

01-18-2003, 17:23

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jumpstart

I ceartainly would take offense if someone moon-ed me while I was on my vacation, and don't kid yourselves that families with impressionable young children don't feel the same way. Why ruin someone else's mountain experience because you feel the need to make a statement? Take your sanctomonious bare-butt somewhere else.

_________________________________________________

and I certainly 'take offense " when the NPS enlarge tunnels so that even BIGGER rvs can cross the smokies and I take offense when Fat-tourists-who- bring- money- to- the- economy- in- this state- so -driven- by -tourism drive up to clingmans dome in the smokies and have a paved path and flush toilets and then go down to Cades Cove in the smokies and drive a round a loop road right smack in the middle of one of the most beautiful valleys in the smokies... the Fat-tourists can force thier polluting noise filled recreational vehicles up to these fragile summits...with road grading,... oil spilling...destructive behaviors...and someone thinks that a part of the human anatomy is offensive....maybe this impressionable children MAY learn something from the mooning experience that they can remember...but the tourist industry and petro industry wouldn't approvewould they???

Bandana Man

01-18-2003, 18:59

Mooning the cog is childish. I don't think children who witness it are going to gain any lasting lessons other than how silly some "grown-ups" can be.

Lone Wolf

01-18-2003, 20:00

Listen to you pseudo- treehuggers. You act like the Smokys or anywhere on the east coast for that matter is pristine wilderness. The park used to have hundreds of families living there till they got kicked out by the government. Don't be a hypocrite and hitch to Gatlinburg when you get to Newfound gap.

smokymtnsteve

01-18-2003, 20:14

Lone wolf who the he// wants to go to gatlinburg,,,

the armpit of TN.

Lone Wolf

01-18-2003, 20:32

90% of thru-hikers go to Gatlinburg. Who the hell would want to go in the summit building on Mt. Washington if it offends people. These same whiners go in there and eat high price food all the while bitching about the "environment." Give me a f$%&*n break!

smokymtnsteve

01-18-2003, 20:58

yea I know that most thruhikers go into gatlinburg but who REALLY wants to!!!

the top of washington and the top of Roan mtn are all to accessible...what do ya think make the trail handicapped accesible so a bunch of whining LIBERALS and thier bratty kids with thier entire FAMILIES can drive thier fat ass up to the best summits ......best thing you could do for those folks is to force them out of thier cars and rvs and let'em walk a little bit...

Lone Wolf

01-18-2003, 21:01

At least we agree liberals suck.

Trail Yeti

01-19-2003, 02:15

Easy,
just proves that ALL chicks (even old chicks) love a guy in a kilt!

Jumpstart

01-19-2003, 10:06

"I realized the post encouraging Cog Moonage would result in several outrgaed replies. I was not disappointed."

Just to clarify, Jack, I am not "outraged." Just simply stating my opinion, as you did. Also, I find it interesting that you would take such delight in attempting to "outrage" people with your opinion. It was my understanding that this forum was to be used as a mean to educate people who might be attempting their first hike, provide first hand experience from past hikers, and discuss some of the more unneccessarily controversial topics about hiking the trail. A question was asked and I answered it. Unlike yourself, (apparently) I wasn't looking to pick a fight.

My point was simply that I wouldn't moon the cog any more than I would moon a grandmother who had driven to the top of Roan Mtn. with her grandchildren in their car, or sneer and moon a couple of nice folks who happened to be at the top of Clingmans' Dome taking in the view. The mountains are for everyone, not only the selct few who have the fortunate ability to be able to walk on their own two feet.

The cog railway was in place on Mt. Washington long before the Appalachain Trail existed, and while I agree that there is no way it would be put about in place today, it is an important artifact that contributes to the history of making the White Mountains what they are today.

Tourist attractions are what they are; they are to ATTRACT TOURISTS, and that has been the goal of Mt. Washington for at least a century and a half. The cog was originally put into place because tourists were seeking a "safer" route to the summit. The Mt. Washington summit has never been the exclusive wilderness,"the backcountry", that you would like it to be, it has been a destination for "tourists" for as long as people have realized you could get up there. There are plenty of other places the mountains where you can enjoy your "pristine wilderness experience"...I don't think it's asking too much to leave at least one or two for the reamining 99% of the population to enjoy.

And just because you can see "more skin in a TV commercial" doesn't make it the right thing to moon the cog railway as unsuspecting young children look on.

And while I don't think what we are discussing is the end-all-be-all of trail controversy, I disagree with you that it is an unimportant point. I live in this state, and I love the mountains here, and expect the visitors (ie: thru-hikers) to my mountains to treat it and more importantly, the people who visit here, with the respect that I would give them. As a thru-hiker, yuo are a guest here. I'm not going to moon the Ober-Gatlinburg tram, ..don't come to my state and moon my railway. Nothing wrong with displaying a little common human decency, and respect for others.

smokymtnsteve

01-19-2003, 10:38

<<<<<<I don't think it's asking too much to leave at least one or two for the reamining 99% of the population to enjoy>>

one or two???

clingmans (large parking lot ..paved trail.. flush toilets)
roan ( the top of which is one huge paved parking lot)
mt mitchell(yea I know it 's not on the AT )
washington(top of which is one big mess)
Wayah (well the roadd id dirt and the parking lot small and
the toilet doesn't flush)
the whole blue ridge parkway.....waterrock knob has a huge parking lot
the top of mt pisgah is developed
Brass town bald..the highest point in GA...shuttle buses coke machines..movie theatre
Mt leconte..well there no road but the lodge there has added a HUGE propane tank farm.

<<<I love the mountains here, and expect the visitors (ie: thru-hikers) to my mountains to treat it and more importantly, the people who visit here, with the respect that I would give them.>>

I love mtns too...you expect visitors (ie thruhikers) to treat the more importantly PEOPLE who visit ..thru hikers aren't people???.

<<<I'm not going to moon the Ober-Gatlinburg tram,>>

GREAT IDEA!!!..

<<don't come to my state and moon my railway.>>

oh.... so you own the state and railway...wouldn't want to cut into YOUR profits

rickb

01-19-2003, 11:03

I'm with you Jumpstart.

Jack may be right that those on the train always find the whole spectacle simply delightful, but so long as hikers sending thier special semiphore view the riders as fat slobs who should be held in disdain, I say keep the shorts up.

There would need to be a whole lot more love for the mooned to eclipse my reservations regarding the practice.

Rick B

Ann

01-19-2003, 11:09

Jumpstart:

After reading both of your posts I see that you disagree with the tradition of Moon the Cog. Not a problem...everyone is entitled to their opinion.

You wrote:

>>"It was my understanding that this forum was to be used as a mean to educate people who might be attempting their first hike"<<<

Yes, that is one of the reasons WHY I posted the thread in the first place. I became very interested in this tradition on another BB and after reading many posts from different backgrounds of people, AT'er who mooned, AT'ers who did not moon, people who had friends that rode the Cog and looked forward to the moons etc. The first I had read heard about it was a few months ago. I thought it was appropriate because I felt that others may not be aware of the tradition, hence my attempt at mentioning it. Baltimore Jack gave a wonderful background of the deed and why it is done which added even more to the thread.

You also wrote:

>>"My point was simply that I wouldn't moon the cog any more than I would moon a grandmother who had driven to the top of Roan Mtn. with her grandchildren in their car""<<

Nothing in life is black and white...sometimes you need to think in terms of "in the spirit in which it was given". This is one of those times. It is my sincere understanding that the riders of the train are NOT the recipients of the moons. It is the Cog itself and what it represents that is the recipient. The riders are given warning and may turn their heads if they want. It is reported that they in fact enjoy it and are disappointed if the moonage does NOT occur. It is reportedly a TOURIST ATTRACTION!

You also wrote:

>>"The cog was originally put into place because tourists were seeking a "safer" route to the summit."<<

I really don't even want to go there. But my guess is that it was put there for someone to "make money".

You also wrote:

>>"I live in this state, and I love the mountains here, and expect the visitors (ie: thru-hikers) to my mountains to treat it and more importantly, the people who visit here, with the respect that I would give them."<<

Well so don't I and I love the mountains also. BTW, they are NOT YOUR mountains...they are EVERYONE'S mountains. (You said "my mountains".) I've hiked in the White Mountains since I was 6 years old and I'm almost 50 and I find it MORE disrespectful to see trash that is discarded from the herds of tourists who are hauled up there with no respect for the mountains than someone expressing themselves towards as Baltimore Jack put it, "an ill placed piece of modern technology". Sorry Jumpstart but as a someone who livesand hikes frequently in this state I invite and encourage anyone who so desires to help perpetuate this wonderful and appropriate TRADITION. I LOOK FORWARD to doing it myself when I get a chance to do my thru-hike.

I am certain that I will not convince you to enjoy or embrace this tradition but I would ask you to let others DECIDE for themselves if they wish to partake in this lighthearded and seemingly fun tradition.

Finally, yes there are MUCH bigger issues to get worked up about. I could fill a page of problems that exist in the backcountry of NH that are much bigger than this and this area is just a small piece of the puzzle. I sure there are even bigger issues elswhere.

rickb

01-19-2003, 12:46

Speaking of the idea that this is a long-standing tradition, does anyone have knowlede of when the tradition began? I reviewed my copy Forest and Craig, and found no mention of it. Unfortuanately, I don't have a Rodale set to consult.

There must be some record of the early pioneers of mooning. I wonder if the practice began with thru-hikers, or if they just became the standard bare-ers. When I searched the the extensive ATC web site, I came up short. Not something I like to admit in a thread about dropping trou, but so be it.

I guess my central thesis is that the tradition may not be as long-standing or ingrained in thru-hiking as some suggest. I took note that an earlier poster who has spent many years on the trail simply said that its been around as long as he could remember.
But hey, that could decade, a lifetime or a week.

Rick B

Lone Wolf

01-19-2003, 13:24

Rick, I think this so-called tradition is only 7 or 8 years old. In the early 90s nobody was doing it. At least it wasn't talked about in trail registers leading up to the Whites. I think thru-hiker types did start it cuz they think of themselves as real "environmentalists" and in tune with the woods. The cog is SO offensive. But if one of thier tree huggin asses needed a quick way down in an emergency and the auto road was closed, they'd be on it.

smokymtnsteve

01-19-2003, 17:35

every tradition began somewhere...every hike begins with putting your boots on ....

Blue Jay

01-24-2003, 21:19

I truly thought everyone mooned the train. I have mooned it every time through. As for children seeing it I know of two families who took the train just to see some moons. One was my Doctor who brought his three young teenage daughters to see how they would react. He was upset because the train staff warned them at the bottom. The train staff do try to chuck coal at the moons but just for fun not to hurt anyone. It's a big joke to everyone on both sides. I am truly in shock that this was taken soooo seriously.

Blue Jay

01-24-2003, 21:42

You people are wonderful. This time of the year I'm usually massively depressed. I have tried to run for the last two days and below Zero winds have driven me back. I'm reading a book a night. If it was not for this site i would be climing the walls with cabin fever and Trail Withdrawl. This "discussion" (which by the way you are all banned from Trialplace for life(don't start)), has made me feel like I'm back on the Trail reading one of the more amusing journals. Thankyouthankyouthankyou all of you, and Lone Wolf how can you of all people, the only member more offensive than me, be against mooning. I'm sorry but you're sounding more Liberal every day.

RagingHampster

01-25-2003, 09:10

You guys are all crazy. Just put one foot in front of the other and smile :rolleyes: .

Lone Wolf

01-25-2003, 10:10

I'm too sexy for my ass, Blue Jay. Your mama is a liberal.

chris

01-25-2003, 13:43

Is seeing a bare arse really such a shocking moment for people that it might scar them for life? I suppose there are some out there whose vertical smile is particularly revolting, but this (un)fortunate group is probably very small. Besides, mooning seems to be a world wide phenomenon. I was mooned repeatedly in Nepal by little children. I thought it was rather funny and they giggled as I rained rocks down upon them.

sloetoe

12-09-2003, 17:47

Mooning the cog is childish. I don't think children who witness it are going to gain any lasting lessons other than how silly some "grown-ups" can be.

With luck, you're right.

Sloetoe
(who mooned 'em in '79,
and who just missed, with his 9 year old twins,
mooning 'em again in '02)

Moon Monster

12-10-2003, 22:12

I had a great reason why I couldn't moon the cog this year. I left out of the Lakes Hut very early on July 4th and got to the summit by 7:00am. It was sunny, 60º, dead calm winds, decent visibility, AND I was totally ALONE walking around the summit on JULY 4th! Anyway, it was too early for the cog to be running and I wanted to keep going to keep enjoying having the Presidentials to myself for as long as possible. I walked for over two hours in the Presis on July 4th without seeing another soul.

(btw, my name has nothing to do with the practice of topic. Moon is my last name:-)

Dharma

12-10-2003, 22:57

Enough about the freakin' children. THEY DON'T CARE! Adults are the ones who are horrified and complain of being scarred for life by briefly seeing somone's back end.

Yeah, that's a responsible adult. Teach a child to act like a little victim every time something happens that they don't like.

Lone Wolf

12-10-2003, 23:02

Using Dharma logic let's all go to our local elementary school and moon kids on the playground.

Dharma

12-10-2003, 23:14

No, that's L. Wolf's logic. I cannot take credit for it.

You missed my point completely.

chomp

12-11-2003, 09:44

No, that's L. Wolf's logic. I cannot take credit for it.

You missed my point completely.

Nothing new there, Dharma. Its true, if it wasn't for the adults, children would be running around nekkid all the time. Kids just are not moddest, and most of them would find a "mooning" to be quite funny.

Not to mention, mooning is just funny. Hell, at Thanksgiving this year, my cousin and I mooned our grandmother and aunt as they were driving away. No, I don't know what caused that, it was was funny... on all sides. Good times.

Lone Wolf

12-11-2003, 09:50

Chomp the Pedophile. Enjoys showing his ass to children. Hmmm. :-?

chomp

12-11-2003, 09:55

Guess your mama never taught you the "If you don't have something nice to say..." lesson.

Actually, come to think of it, did you mama ever teach you anything? Apparently all you learned is "When an argument isn't going your way, resort to personal attacks."

Lone Wolf

12-11-2003, 09:58

I wasn't arguing. My mom died when I was 8.

Jaybird

01-12-2004, 06:42

i thought Pigeon Forge (Gatlinburg's "shopping paradise" neighbor..full of outlet malls & too much traffic & tourists that never see the Smoky Mtns!)

was the arm-pit of Tennessee!

see ya'll up the trail in 2004!

lowthesd

02-12-2004, 21:15

Hiking past that damn train with a slight wind is horrible. Hurts like the dickens, scratches the eyes with coal bits, stinks and is and eye sore. but it gets the old people to the top.

Mike Drinkuth

02-12-2004, 21:58

HEHEHEHEHE!!!!!!! Moon the train in 04.... :bse ....I'M IN!

Kozmic Zian

02-12-2004, 23:38

Yea.....Moonage. I'm with the non-mooners on this one. Hate to say it guys, 'cause I like to have a good time...and you give me a coupla' Gran Maniers and I'll do most anything, but moon the cog....god,,,,that's funny. I just think...well, I basically am a loner hiker...so I'd be up there all alone, ya' know, and I'd drop trou, and some little kid'would squeell...ooooo, mama look at the stupid old man, standin' there with no clothes on, think he needs some help?....I'd have to slink off like a dumbass and hope they didn't see my little thingy. So much for moonin' the Cog. KZ@

azchipka

02-13-2004, 00:01

For a change of pass lets all just hike nude the day we pass under the train. We can all hang around there. Think of it train goes by expecting to see a bunch of people moon them and there are 15 some od hikers standing around nude.

Skeemer

02-13-2004, 09:56

Koz wrote:
I'd be up there all alone, ya' know, and I'd drop trou, and some little kid'would squeell...ooooo, mama look at the stupid old man, standin' there with no clothes on, think he needs some help?....I'd have to slink off like a dumbass and hope they didn't see my little thingy.

Geez, that's exactly what happened to me!

nlaing

02-26-2004, 09:09

I remember when I was about eight or so, I was on a family vacation to Disney world. My parents were too poor to afford airfare, so we drove from NH to Florida. About half way there in our Toyota mini-van I thought it would be a good idea to squeeze myself in the spot between the back seat and the rear window. I proceeded to drop my drawers and moon the people behind us for about 100 miles until my parents found out. They were REALLY angry. I'm 26 now, and now that their responsibility for disiplining me is over, they let me know that that was their favorite part of the vacation.

Now that my little story is over, I have to make a point, or at least try to. It seems to me that as I get older I am starting to notice more and more people who believe it is their responsibility to be the moral authority for the public masses. Are you so sure that you know what is right? Are you sure that you know what is right for everyone else? If it doesn't harm you directly, or those around you directly, why do you care so much? Does it cause irreprable dammage to you or your loved ones if Joe Pothead smokes a joint outside of a shelter? Does it cause you migraines if someone Blueblazed all the way to Katahdin? Is catching a glimpse of an a$$ cheek going to scar you mentally and emotionally for life?

I think people should worry more about the 3 foot sphere that surrounds themselves, and worry less about what is going on outside of that sphere. I may choose not to moon the train, but I won't get upset if someone does. I would most likely giggle for 20 seconds, and then start inching my way towards Katahdin again.

Just remember that wars are fought and people are dying because someone else thought the way they were living was wrong. Sorry for the rant.

I am being a hypocrate. Who am I to preach to you. Do what you want. Be angry at people for mooning the train. I'm going to hike to Katahdin and keep my mouth shut. :)

oyvay

02-26-2004, 17:30

For the record I've mooned it and carried a souvenir lump of coal to Katahdin. Always thought about riding the train and doing it back to the hikers though. As far as the "offended" crowd, I'll wager most are above the age of 18 and think they are protecting their children. A friend of mine has two boys (ages 4and 6) they SURPRISED ME when my friend told them it was time to change for bed. They took of all their clothes and ran around the house starkers until she got them to sit still to put on their PJs. Nudity doesn't bother the young until they start learning modesty from society (which the 6y/o is beginning to learn). A few moments of seeing someone's pale backside is not that bad and won't really hurt anyone. It's better than a possible perv lurking near a public rest room ready to abduct a child and do unspeakable acts (IMHO pervs deserve to be tied to the tracks!)

flyfisher

02-27-2004, 00:35

I walked up Washington from the Cog Train station last summer and rode the Cog back down. I did this with my wife and 14 year old son. Several hikers mooned us from about 100 yards away. It was the first I had ever heard of the tradition.

In a silly way, it was fun for the people on the train. There were lots of kids, but I didn't see any adults hiding their kids from the event.

Sitting there on the train, I decided that I would moon the train on my thru-hike. I have no idea why. But I will. And it will not likely be the dumbest thing I do on the hike.

:eek:

Two Hats

01-24-2005, 22:44

Truly, even tho I am a senior citizen, I had entertained thoughts of mooning the cog. Unfortunately, it was so foggy, freezing and cold on good ol' Mt. Washington when I went over that I basically had no idea where I was. I practically tripped over the rails. Having safely gotten over them I was then totally shocked to hear the cog's whistle. I had no idea a train was that close to me. I was so thankful that I wasn't run over by the cog that I forgave it, right then and there and figured mooning would serve no practical purpose, anyway.
Two Hats

ocourse

01-25-2005, 05:14

It is a nasty practice and very immature. Not the way to change the world - if that's what folks want to do. I object to filth!

Freighttrain

01-25-2005, 10:21

i remember the trail going under the tracks not over them....

chomp

01-25-2005, 10:23

i remember the trail going under the tracks not over them....
The trail definitely goes over the tracks.

Lone Wolf

01-25-2005, 10:25

yup. over.

The Old Fhart

01-25-2005, 11:24

Maybe this will help. Heading north from the summit on the Gulfside Trail/AT, the trail crosses the tracks, turns left, and follows along the tracks on the side of the Great Gulf. It soon comes to the junction of the Westside Trail that skirts the summit. The Westside Trail (not part of the AT) immediately goes under the cog tracks.

Caleb

02-01-2005, 13:25

The Cog Railway is an affront to the Mountains. It is singularly out of place and is an anachronism that simply doesn't belong there.
It is hard to overstate this level of 'affront'. beyond what's been mentioned, the cog operates with a huge disrespect for the mountain.... the whole cog- side of the mountain is littered with discarded and rotted rr timbers, creosote buckets, and piles of various RR/industrial trash. I wrote WMNF about this last summer, and also wrote a LTE to the Conway newspaper. No publication, and no response from the FS. i don't mind the mooning, but maybe instead of baring our asses we could form an advocacy group to get the mountain cleaned up. it would be a positive step. C

Lone Wolf

02-01-2005, 13:32

The Cog was there long before the Forest Service. It's a money maker. It ain't going anywhere anytime soon. Same as the Auto Road. Been there since Christ was a corporal. We all gots to live in harmony.

Caleb

02-01-2005, 14:24

We all gots to live in harmony.
I'm all for harmony. i can tolerate the cog and its necessary impacts, but the unnecessary defilement is offensive and disharmonious. have you seen the railway lately? I'll take pics and post them when i'm next there. The mountain is really a mess. even if it's a historical -been there-forever-mess- its disgusting and should be addressed. are you opposed to this?

Lone Wolf

02-01-2005, 14:32

Nope. Not opposed. Maybe you could express your concerns directly to the Cog owners.

The Old Fhart

02-01-2005, 14:43

While I deplore the trash the Cog leaves on the ground beside the tracks, I agree with Lone Wolf that neither the Cog or the Auto Road are going to disappear and I don't advocate that. It should be noted that the Mt. Washington Auto Road Company does an excellent job of keeping their side of the mountain clean.

There are about 250,000 people who visit the summit, which is a NH state park, each year. About 190,000 pay, 60,000 day hike, and a couple of hundred are thru hikers. Mooning the Cog only serves to give a lot of people a lower opinion of thru hikers than they already have. For example, I recall one typical thru hiker sitting on the summit when a child came near and said: “Look, mommy, a hiker.” The mother, after seeing this person she apparently viewed as a bum, snapped back: “Get away from him, you don’t know where he’s been!”

As to Caleb’s comment: “ …maybe instead of baring our asses we could form an advocacy group to get the mountain cleaned up. it would be a positive step,” that is an excellent idea. Every year the New Hampshire Chapter AMC has a volunteer summit clean-up weekend. I have been up there twice and the majority of the big crap has been along the Cog tracks. One year we made a large pile of old timbers about 12 feet high that was eventually carted off. The State, Weather Observatory, USFS, and AMC have been trying to get the Cog to be more responsible.There has been minor progress but there is a long way to go.

Toolshed

02-01-2005, 14:58

Caleb

02-01-2005, 14:58

Every year the New Hampshire Chapter AMC has a volunteer summit clean-up weekend. I have been up there twice and the majority of the big crap has been along the Cog tracks. One year we made a large pile of old timbers about 12 feet high that was eventually carted off. The State, Weather Observatory, USFS, and AMC have been trying to get the Cog to be more responsible.There has been minor progress but there is a long way to go.
good idea. i will inquire with the AMC about the status of the clean up projects and what i can do to help. will report all findings. C

hikerjohnd

02-01-2005, 15:40

My father is really into railroads and I thought while in the area I'd try to ride the railway/take pics and try to share the experience with him. Does riding the railway take you far out of the way of the AT? Can I take the railway down the mtn and easily hook up with the AT there? just curious...

Jack Tarlin

02-01-2005, 15:45

John:

You can hook up with the railway at the TOP of the mountain, as the Trail crosses the tracks just below the summit of Washington.

The other end of the traintracks is a bit removed from the Trail; if you want to hook up with the Trail and hike, better to start at the foot of the mountain, ride the Train up, and then descend from the summit to the A.T.

Or if you arrive at Washington's summit on foot via the A.T., you can ride the train down, and then back up again, getting some cool pix for your dad.

hikerjohnd

02-01-2005, 16:22

The Cheat

02-01-2005, 16:34

Excellent - I think I'll do the round trip from the top so I don't miss the white blazes and dad will still be happy!

Thanks for the input!
--JohnTake a slideboard (http://www.cog-railway.com/devils.htm)down. :jump If your still alive you can take the railway back up.

dgodwin7

02-01-2005, 17:16

I'm with ganj - When I was there this summer visibility was didly squat. Mooning would only have made my heiny as cold as my hands. ;-) But it is a crappy train and I say...moon it! Dang tourons.

Caleb

02-01-2005, 18:29

The State, Weather Observatory, USFS, and AMC have been trying to get the Cog to be more responsible.There has been minor progress but there is a long way to go.

I e-mailed the AMC. If they've made an effort to clean up the mountain, that's great. I will be a part of any future effort. But as the mountain is still absolutely full of trash, it's hard for me to characterize the past efforts as successful. Perhaps a beginning was made. Also, perhaps the AMC is not the best advocate for the job... they are afterall concessionaires on the mountain just like the Cog RR, and the operation of the huts is not without controversy of its own.

thanks again. Do you have any info on initiatives undertaken by the State, Weather Ob, and th USFS?

fiddlehead

04-10-2005, 23:36

A little story about the last time i was lucky enough to be climbing Wash. when the Cog came along:
I always wanted to moon the cog but my previous 2 times it was either poor visablity or no train in sight. But in '95 i got my chance and upon hearing the whistle, ran to get to the tracks before the train did. I got across and waited till the train was halfway past and proceeded to "shoot the moon". Well, my packweight was more than i was ready for (and my heartbeat was racing as i waited a lot of years for this) and the sudden shift of weight to the top of my head made me fall over. Embarressed as could be, i looked back and saw the entire train giving me an ovation and cheering. I didn't see any one of them that looked like they weren't thoroughly entertained or mad. I only hope someone got it on video.

We did the same thing to the train at Cumbres Pass in CO. T here were 7 or us this time including a beautiful woman hiker, and we rode the train halfway up and told many people the NH story i just repeated above. Well the train stopped for water about halfway up and we got out, climbed the bank and hitchiked the rest of the way up. Luckily we arrived about 15 minutes before the train and started out northbound on the CDT. After 5 minutes walking, we heard the whistle again and hurried to a great viewing spot. (deja vu?) This time we practiced and counted down and turned around on cue and it went great. (we were ready for the counterbalance) We found out later from someone who was on that train that some people were really upset over it! (turns out they were only upset because they didn't have their video camera on us at the time)

So, i sure hope that the tradition continues and these people who are so against us having some fun, will look at it a bit different and start enjoying their damn lives instead of bitching about trivial hiker fun!!!

rickb

04-11-2005, 07:24

HikerJohn--

In case your Dad is looking to spend some more time in the area after riding the Cog, here is a link to the local tourist train. FWIW.

http://www.conwayscenic.com/

Rick B

hikerjohnd

04-11-2005, 08:01

HikerJohn--

In case your Dad is looking to spend some more time in the area after riding the Cog, here is a link to the local tourist train. FWIW.

http://www.conwayscenic.com/

Rick B
Thanks for the info! I'll check out the train while I'm up there! Unfortunately he has to experience this vicariously. He is in the early stages of Alzheimers and my mom is in a wheelchair - so they do not get out much. He still enjoys watching train videos and reading his model train magazines - but that is about the extent of his adventures. I plan to bring back pics (and maybe shipping my video camera up there but not sure yet) and write letters about the experience for him to enjoy.

rickb

04-11-2005, 17:58

I plan to bring back pics (and maybe shipping my video camera up there but not sure yet) and write letters about the experience for him to enjoy.

If you are looking for pictures, one of the tourist train stations is within sight of the AMC's Highland Center. The Highland Center is off the trail a couple miles, but it does have a $20+/- bunkhouse (includes breakfast). Depending on how your walk is evolving, you might end up there anyway.

The tourist train doesn't run all that frequently, but if you happen to have a schedule, it runs over a neat tressle bridge within walking distance of the Highland Center IIRC, that might offer a great photo op.

Of course, the Cog will offer even better ones.

bailcor

04-30-2005, 16:43

It is hard to overstate this level of 'affront'. beyond what's been mentioned, the cog operates with a huge disrespect for the mountain.... the whole cog- side of the mountain is littered with discarded and rotted rr timbers, creosote buckets, and piles of various RR/industrial trash. I wrote WMNF about this last summer, and also wrote a LTE to the Conway newspaper. No publication, and no response from the FS. i don't mind the mooning, but maybe instead of baring our asses we could form an advocacy group to get the mountain cleaned up. it would be a positive step. C

I am old enough to remember when all engine's were those coal eating dragons and loved the sound of them passing in the night. If a few still spew their smoke I don't think it will hurt us to much. By the way we on the moon call it "earthing".

gr8fulyankee

04-30-2005, 18:27

Mooning the cog is an asinine thing to do.
If mooning the Cog is an asinine thing to do,

Then count on my assinline. :D

I grew up in Laconia, NH. Lived in that wonderful state for 30 years. I consider the Cog the stinking Cesspool of our state. I remember hiking up the mountain many times as kid and young adult, smelling that foul stench, thinking thats what massholes smelled like. The Cog has done so much damage to such a delicate area.

Lone Wolf

04-30-2005, 20:35

Showing your pimply ass to tourists ain't taking action. If you were serious you would do some monkey wrenching. Blow up the tracks or something. But you're probably just a weenie liberal like the rest of the mooners.

Pencil Pusher

04-30-2005, 20:44

edited: Not humor the pc crowd would appreciate...

Roland

04-30-2005, 20:51

edited: Not humor the pc crowd would appreciate... Discretion is the better part of valor ;)

Joey

10-06-2005, 15:48

Old Spice

10-07-2005, 00:12

"You'd think thru-hikers (especially) would know better than to represent the thru-hiking community, which is already looked at with disdain and disgust by most "ordinary" folks, by acting so childish and vulgar."

In my opinion, most "ordinary" folks do not even know what a thru-hiker is.

Lone Wolf

10-07-2005, 07:35

Most folks don't give a sht either. Most thru-hikers are full of themselves.

rickb

10-07-2005, 07:42

Is there anything else in the world you can you do that makes you an "expert" in 4 - 6 Months?

A couple years ago there were serious plans to replace the coal burning engines with ones running on heating oil. I wonder why nothing ever came of that.

MizWaterfall

01-01-2006, 19:31

RITBlake

01-02-2006, 00:44

The male contingent of the 'joes hole posse' mooned the cog railway as we made our way up Mt. Washington. The funny part about it was the train came to a complete stop as we were mooning them. Then a large man on the outside of the train took the oportunity to moon us back!

Great pics attached

weary

01-02-2006, 11:19

[QUOTE=smokymtnsteve]As Stone Cold Steve Austin would say OH HELL YEAH:dance Smokymtnsteve you could not have hit the nail on the head any better my friend. I hate a damn RV more than anything in the world:mad:
Great diatribe, Joey. I suggest, however, you have it tattooed on your butt before mooning anyone again. Such brilliance should not be hidden.

betic4lyf

01-02-2006, 15:17

i really don't like the cog, but i have heard (from th AMC) that the cogs impact is pretty bad, but it is localized, and so the area around it is bad, but that other than that, its impact is relatively small. the cars on the other hand leave an impact that is much more spread out. I really hate what they have on mt. washington. I was working building cairns close to the summit on Lionshead, and it really made me angry that people were promising their kids chilli dogs at the top. it really ruings the experience to hike a whole day just to see some Harley guy in full leather taking their picture at the top, then go to eat a cheeseburger.

Peaks

01-02-2006, 16:10

sparky2000

01-02-2006, 18:06

The purpose of the Moon is to show them their foreigners that you do have a clean part of your body!

wren

01-02-2006, 21:37

A long time ago a buddy and I climbed Mt Washington. I hadn't been camping back east in a long time and was getting really into it. (If I recall correctly, we went thru tuckerman's on the way up). Anyway, it kept getting better and better as we climbed. I was in the zone, loving the alpine environment. I had no idea all that mayhem on the summit even existed, and it completely took me by surprise..

I was furious and bummed at the same time. What is that, a road full of gapers? A visitor's center? What's all that smoke? A friggin TRAIN? UUGGHH! If I had only known about the tradition back then...

The Desperado

01-03-2006, 00:00

Have a coffee at the summit & Moon the d--- train. Ive talked to "dozens" or more of those riders and they really are dissapointed if doesnt happen---I was surprised, but their it is!

Tinker

01-03-2006, 00:22

I'm so torn! As a respect toward the tourons, I wouldn't do it, but in defiance of the smoke spewing menace, I'd love to.

I have to wait until the time comes. On a late summer hike this year, It nearly asphyxiated me. It was descending at the same rate as I was, and I was downwind of it. I really, really, hate that train, but probably not enough to offend anyone on it or lower the reputation of hikers any lower than it already is in the world of the couch potato tourist. :rolleyes:

UCONNMike

01-04-2006, 13:20

"You'd think thru-hikers (especially) would know better than to represent the thru-hiking community, which is already looked at with disdain and disgust by most "ordinary" folks, by acting so childish and vulgar."

I would bite your tongue before you begin to trash thru hiker tradition, wait until you've been out there and gone through everything that us thru hikers have gone through before you pass judgement.

Cookerhiker

01-04-2006, 13:27

Here's the news we've all been waiting for - yeah, right. In Maryland for now, at least, mooning is considered legal.

http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=25&sid=664475

MOWGLI

01-04-2006, 13:44

Isis, Jackrabbit, and I mooned it in '00. People cheered. We're probably on a few vacation videos. They threw coal at us. We threw it back. We were laughing so hard and having so much fun that we got on the wrong trail and hiked the wrong way for half a mile. Very fun day on the AT!

Yes, and I was lucky enough to run into you three lovely ladies the day before as we climbed down off of Madison. Good to hear from you MizWaterfall.

On a side note, I didn't moon the cog. I was too busy trying to get my hiney off the mountain as a storm blew in.
Little Bear

weary

01-04-2006, 14:01

Here's the news we've all been waiting for - yeah, right. In Maryland for now, at least, mooning is considered legal.
http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=25&sid=664475
But keep in mind that the good judge also found that the outcome could have been different had the mooner been on trial for "being a jerk."

bigmac_in

01-04-2006, 14:04

http://http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10700493/

Apparently mooning isn't too offensive in some places -- even legal.......

Cookerhiker

01-04-2006, 14:04

But keep in mind that the good judge also found that the outcome could have been different had the mooner been on trial for "being a jerk."

If being a jerk becomes illegal, a lot of us are in trouble.:D

bigmac_in

01-04-2006, 14:10

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10700493/

let's try that again

bigmac_in

01-04-2006, 14:11

same story, longer version

Lone Wolf

01-04-2006, 15:41

I would bite your tongue before you begin to trash thru hiker tradition, wait until you've been out there and gone through everything that us thru hikers have gone through before you pass judgement.
I've thru-hiked 5 times and showing your dirty ass and balls is no tradition. What is it that thru-hikers go through?

bfitz

01-04-2006, 15:45

Important new development...today MD, tomorrow NH, then the world!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10700493/

UCONNMike

01-05-2006, 04:23

I've thru-hiked 5 times and showing your dirty ass and balls is no tradition. What is it that thru-hikers go through?

Hey Wolfy, please spare me...I met you in Damascus, you seemed like a cool guy, but it is very clear that you are very much so out of touch with younger hikers (ie all the college age and mid/late 20 year olds). I'm sure you can remember what is was like to be young and be caught up in the moment of something so incredible that 99.9% percent of people you talk to after the fact can't relate to your life changing experience. Just try and remember...you might find it to be a very rewarding.

and that goes for everyone else who is to caught up in being politically correct and over sensitive, just live you lives and enjoy what little time we have on this planet, there is a lot to see and do, and if you are someone on this site who hasn't thru hiked or done a section, get out there and do it, then you will understand what I'm talking about, b/c all the social and cultural barriers vanish when you are on the trail, when you aer out there everyone is equal and out to accomplish the same things, and while you are part of this life changing experience you will feel liberated and free, you will find a calmness you never thought you could have, that is what thru hiking is about...so for all of you who felt free enough to engage in this silly little tradition (which is so insignificant and non threatening, something which I am possitive has no negative impact on the passengers) of mooning the cog, I salute you.

...relax and breath everyone, it will do you wonders

Lone Wolf

01-05-2006, 05:53

bfitz

01-05-2006, 08:14

What a bunch of BS.:D What's it got to do with showing your ass to a train? I'm very much so out outa touch with younger hikers? I met my girlfriend on the trail over 5 years ago and she's now 28. It's just a trail.:)
I don't give a crap either way but you might get your ass burned since there is a "tradition" among the engineers to heave shovels full of hot coal at thru-hiker asses. They should put it in the brochure. Someone's probably mentioned that already but I'm too lazy to read it all. I got naked on that mountail well away from any danger of being seen, burnt, or causing offense (observing a tradition of my own...)

MOWGLI

01-05-2006, 10:03

I've thru-hiked 5 times and showing your dirty ass and balls is no tradition.

Well, I would agree with that statement. Show your balls to the train and you're looking for an indecent exposure charge.

However, as evidenced on this site and on Trail Journals, and based upon my experiences on the trail, "mooning" the cog is as much a tradition as the half gallon challenge or hike naked day. You don't have to like it or participate in it, but it has developed into a tradition nonetheless.

rickb

01-05-2006, 10:11

How many years make a tradition?

MOWGLI

01-05-2006, 10:22

From Websters;

Main Entry: tra·di·tion
Pronunciation: tr&-'di-sh&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English tradicioun, from Middle French & Latin; Middle French tradition, from Latin tradition-, traditio action of handing over, tradition -- more at TREASON
1 : an inherited, established, or customary pattern of thought, action, or behavior (as a religious practice or a social custom)
2 : the handing down of information, beliefs, and customs by word of mouth or by example from one generation to another without written instruction
3 : cultural continuity in social attitudes, customs, and institutions
4 : characteristic manner, method, or style

Nothing is mentioned about what timeframe constitutes a tradition.

the goat

01-05-2006, 10:34

....I got naked on that mountail.....

freudian slip?:D

UCONNMike

01-05-2006, 10:53

It's just a trail.

...simply put, I feel bad for you.

Lone Wolf

01-05-2006, 10:57

You'll grow up one day, son and realize that it is just a trail and just hiking.:) I've got life by the ass. No need to feel bad for me.:D

UCONNMike

01-05-2006, 11:02

I've got life by the ass.

...Well I hope he's cute.

weary

01-05-2006, 11:06

Hey Wolfy, ...it is very clear that you are very much so out of touch with younger hikers (ie all the college age and mid/late 20 year olds). I'm sure you can remember what is was like to be young and be caught up in the moment ...and that goes for everyone else who is to caught up in being politically correct and over sensitive, ...
Now there's a real first for White Blaze -- someone who thinks Lone Wolf is "politically correct and over sensitive!!!"

Lone Wolf

01-05-2006, 11:13

Fording the Kennebec is a tradition. I encourage everyone to do it.

chomp

01-05-2006, 11:22

Obviously, laws vary from state to state, but mooning in legal in Maryland. W00t!!

http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=22&art_id=qw1136446921614B225

UCONNMike

01-05-2006, 20:26

Fording the Kennebec is a tradition. I encourage everyone to do it.

You really are insane, going across with Steve is more of a tradition than fording, not to mention fording is super dangerous...people have died trying to ford it, so to suggest that is just stupid

Lone Wolf

01-05-2006, 20:31

Sure Mike. Sure.:cool:

Blue Jay

01-05-2006, 20:38

Now there's a real first for White Blaze -- someone who thinks Lone Wolf is "politically correct and over sensitive!!!"

That's not true, I always thought that. I just never typed it because I didn't want to hurt his delicate feelings.

Lone Wolf

01-05-2006, 20:51

Thanks for your overwhelming kindness and forethought, Blue Jay. You're a kind man. I'm bi-polar and sensitive. It's an illness. I've been told. I'm on the yellow-blaze to recovery.

Nean

01-06-2006, 00:33

I've thru-hiked 5 times and showing your dirty ass and balls is no tradition.
Tis at one establishment, yeeah:rolleyes:
I've always done the cog on 6-21, what tradition:confused:
I've ALWAYS forded the ENTIRE Kennebec naked, thought it was tradition to moon the fairyman?!:-?

Mountain Dew

01-06-2006, 01:27

Nean, "I've ALWAYS forded the ENTIRE Kennebec naked, thought it was tradition to moon the fairyman?! " --- Now mooning the Steve the Ferryman would be funny Nean, but please don't moon a "fairyman" !!! That could be potentially dangerous to your arse if you weren't fast enough to escape !!!

Nean

01-06-2006, 02:14

Had I made it home for Christmas I was going to moon you too Dew!:D

Lone Wolf

01-06-2006, 06:53

Tis at one establishment, yeeah:rolleyes:
I've always done the cog on 6-21, what tradition:confused:
I've ALWAYS forded the ENTIRE Kennebec naked, thought it was tradition to moon the fairyman?!:-?
Oh yeah. I forgot about that place in Virginia where the hostel owner likes to see young naked male hikers.:cool:

middle to middle

01-06-2006, 12:10

I was there once as a tourist type and made sure to ride the train. Hate to say it was a great experience, a fascinating train ride and I was very disapointed that I did not get mooned or even see a hiker ! What goes around does not always come around.

bfitz

01-06-2006, 18:31

Anyone whose trip up the mountain is ruined by seeing a hiker's rear end at 100 paces has more than one problem...

sirbingo

06-15-2006, 11:25

do this to 400 morbidly obese New York Yankee fans .....passengers simply LOVE it when this happens---far from being offended, they usually applaud).

Well, if they are LOVE IT when you bare your butt at them I would have say to that they must be RedSox fans...not Yankee fans.

:p

berninbush

06-15-2006, 23:04

To moon or not to moon? If you really mean it as a form of protest, not just as a mischievous tradition, here are some points to consider:

1. Consider the case of three of my friends. "Ron" can't hike more than a mile without crippling pain from an old college wrestling injury. "Laura" carries an extra 100 lbs. of weight from a thyroid problem that the best efforts of medicine and stringent diet have not been able to completely control. "Heather" was born with spina bifida and gets around in a wheelchair. Through no fault of their own, these three are probably physically unable to climb a mountain.

2, Ron, Laura, and Heather all are employed full-time and pay hefty federal taxes. Some of that money goes to paint the pretty white blazes on trails they can't hike. There are hundreds of beauty spots in the wilderness that they will never see except in pictures. Is it so terrible that a few such spots are made a little less pristine so they can participate?

3. How about the rest of those "fat New Yorkers" who are just too out of shape to climb? I'd venture to guess a lot of them work 60-90 hour weeks in an office and live the fast-paced lifestyle that goes with that. You may despise that lifestyle, but the truth is their hard work makes possible the economy that allows hikers to spend the annual income of a third-world family on the latest and greatest gear. Unless your gear is all hand-made from materials grown in your back yard, you're part of American consumer culture, with all that entails.

4. You may hate the train, but some people love those things for their history and quaint charm. As a hobby, trains probably have at least as much of a following as thru-hiking. Hikers aren't the only people with a right to enjoy their hobby.

5. The peak ecosystem may be "fragile," but that train's been there a long time. Whatever is alive on the mountain now is apparently capable of co-existing with the train and the tourists. Humans are part of nature too, and in the long term, the natural world is amazingly adaptable.

6. Today's tourists just might be tomorrow's hikers, if the beauty of nature and the example of hikers captures their imagination. Tourists can, at any rate, learn to be thoughtful and respectful of the "leave no trace" ethic; this is a responsibility knowledgeable people have, to educate others. But if their first introduction is to your hindquarters, they're less likely to hear what comes out the other end when you turn around. (I know my mother, for one, won't give you the time of day if you start out like that!)

If you choose to make an ass of yourself, in every sense of the word, that's your business. Just putting these points out there for you to think about.

fiddlehead

06-17-2006, 00:24

To moon or not to moon? If you really mean it as a form of protest, not just as a mischievous tradition, here are some points to consider:

4. You may hate the train, but some people love those things for their history and quaint charm. As a hobby, trains probably have at least as much of a following as thru-hiking. Hikers aren't the only people with a right to enjoy their hobby.

5. The peak ecosystem may be "fragile," but that train's been there a long time. Whatever is alive on the mountain now is apparently capable of co-existing with the train and the tourists. Humans are part of nature too, and in the long term, the natural world is amazingly adaptable.

6. Today's tourists just might be tomorrow's hikers, if the beauty of nature and the example of hikers captures their imagination. Tourists can, at any rate, learn to be thoughtful and respectful of the "leave no trace" ethic; this is a responsibility knowledgeable people have, to educate others. But if their first introduction is to your hindquarters, they're less likely to hear what comes out the other end when you turn around. (I know my mother, for one, won't give you the time of day if you start out like that!)

If you choose to make an ass of yourself, in every sense of the word, that's your business. Just putting these points out there for you to think about.

Maybe you haven't seen the black smoke that that train spews into the air. (pretty pristine air before the smoke)
America is the biggest polluter on the plane Polluting the environment is not something to be proud of. Some traditions suck. Mooning the cog is not one of the worst ones here. (ever wonder why you can't eat the fish caught in America? that train has a lot to do with it)

fiddlehead

06-17-2006, 00:25

sorry for the typing error. i meant to say America is the biggest polluter on the planet, not the plane. (what ever happened to the edit option?)

atraildreamer

06-17-2006, 06:18

Interesting posts about Mt. Washington. Took my wife to the top on the stage (Jeep Cherokees w/440 CI engines) on our honeymoon in 1980. Thought it was funny to see the reactions of the auto drivers on the way down from the top (extremely stressed out and white knuckles on the steering wheels) on the often narrow gravel road. :p Didn't think it so funny when I looked out the side window and saw how close we were to the edge of the road (straight drop 300 + feet down! :eek: ) Asked the driver how fast he could make it back down the mountain, sans passengers...no specific answer, he only smiled. :D

The top of the mountain, for those who have never been there, has a weather station, a TV (channel 3) transmitter, living quarters for the crew that are there year round, and buildings to house them. that. The visitors' center is a round concrete structure that can only be described as a "pillbox", similar to what you see in war movies. It is set into the ground, with only a few feet of the structure sticking up, due to the high winds. Ther curved windows are curved Plexiglass, about 2" thick, also due to the high winds.

I took a look at the tracks for the Cog Railway when I was on top and was not impressed by their construction. I decided then and there NEVER to ride the thing, especially since a friend had told me that the train had cut loose on one trip killing 7 people. :(

A good book about life on Mt Washington, called "20 Years on the Rock Pile" was written by on of the television crew that had lived on top, both summer and winter. An interesting read, and available at the visitors' center.

weary

06-17-2006, 09:48

Maybe you haven't seen the black smoke that that train spews into the air. (pretty pristine air before the smoke)
America is the biggest polluter on the plane Polluting the environment is not something to be proud of. Some traditions suck. Mooning the cog is not one of the worst ones here. (ever wonder why you can't eat the fish caught in America? that train has a lot to do with it)
The smoke represents probably a fraction of one percent of the pollution in that allegedly pristine air you think you see over the whites.

That train has virtually nothing to do with poisons that make much fish-eating harmful. Pollution is not measured by color, but by colorless ingredients, the sulfur compounds, mercury, ozone .... that have cut long distance visibility in half in recent decades.

The bulk of the pollution in the air over the Whites -- and in northern New England -- comes from giant coal-fired power plants in the southern and midwestern states, and from automobile and truck traffic up and down the eastern seaboard.

Weary

Frolicking Dinosaurs

06-17-2006, 11:07

Back to the original topic - if this dino mooned the train the passengers would just asume they were looking at the White mountains.

berninbush

06-17-2006, 11:10

Yeah, the train may LOOK like a big polluter because the smoke happens to be visible, but at least it's taking all those folks up there using only one vehicle. I suspect the impact would be much worse if all of them were driving up there in SUVs. More carbon monoxide, and more roadkill. An all-electric train might less visibly pollute the immediate area, but the electricity to run it would have to come from somewhere, and if it was made in a coal-burning power plant the end result wouldn't be too much different. Unfortunately, there's no barrier to separate city smog from mountain "purity."

You could try to keep the tourists from coming up the mountain at all... but what goes around comes around. Someday when you're old and gray, your ankles and knees shot from years of hard use, and you walk with a walker instead of a hiking stick, you might be quite glad to sit on a comfortable train and go to the top of the mountain to dream and relive old memories.

berninbush

06-17-2006, 11:13

Hahaha, Dino! :-) That's great.

Sorry if I "hijacked" the thread or made it more serious than it's meant to be. *blush* Just had to get that off my chest (or off my bottom?).

Frolicking Dinosaurs

06-17-2006, 12:07

Berninbush brings up a good point - parts of the wilderness need to be accessible to those who cannot hike into it. Having been in this position, I can tell you that things like the road thru Cades Cove & Rich Mountain Road (Smokies) and various forest service roads in TN and GA were a great comfort to me when I was in a wheelchair and re-learning how to walk. They helped keep my spirits up and my dreams alive.

I want my mother (advanced Parkinson's) and my 89 year-old aunt who can barely walk to be able to experience a portion of the beauty we hike to see. There needs to be balance between keeping lands pristine and making them accessible to those who cannot hike. Granted, many who could hike will opt not to if an alternative is available, but this would serve to keep the hike-in only backcountry more pristine by eliminating many tourons in the backcountry.

bfitz

06-17-2006, 18:57

Many mountains (including washington, blue ridge parkway etc...) have roads that go to the top. The cog is like a museum relic or whatever of the old days, thats why it's special. It's still funny to moon. Silly to do it as an angry protest, though...I doubt that's whats going through a mooners mind at the time...not a big deal either way...

fiddlehead

06-19-2006, 00:13

The smoke represents probably a fraction of one percent of the pollution in that allegedly pristine air you think you see over the whites.

That train has virtually nothing to do with poisons that make much fish-eating harmful. Pollution is not measured by color, but by colorless ingredients, the sulfur compounds, mercury, ozone .... that have cut long distance visibility in half in recent decades.

The bulk of the pollution in the air over the Whites -- and in northern New England -- comes from giant coal-fired power plants in the southern and midwestern states, and from automobile and truck traffic up and down the eastern seaboard.

Weary

It's mercury that i'm talking about. That's the one that has the most to do with the fact that it's harmful to be eating fish caught in America. Are you trying to tell me that the smoke from that train smokestack has no mercury in it?

rickb

06-19-2006, 06:26

There are different kinds of pollution,too. All up and down the track you will find hundreds and thousands of old ties littered about that were deemed not worthy of removal when they brought the new ones in.

Then there is the noise pollution. They blow that *!&% whistle all too much-- to the delight of the passengers, I suppose-- but it really does suck to listen to as you approach Mt. Washington from the north.

Then there is the pollution of of spirit. A couple years ago there was a plan to replace the polluting coal-fed engin with deisel. When that balloon was floated, no one really seemed to care. We are left witht he belching smoke and a constant reminder that if something is "neat" then its OK to ask nature and calm to pay the price.

Hikers who moon the Train are simply adding to the fun and merryment of for-profit enterprise that could do a hell of a lot better. Thru hikers should turn thier backs on the ugliyness.

Oh wait, perhaps I need to rethink this...

Frolicking Dinosaurs

06-19-2006, 07:29

It's mercury that i'm talking about. That's the one that has the most to do with the fact that it's harmful to be eating fish caught in America. Are you trying to tell me that the smoke from that train smokestack has no mercury in it?Fiddlehead, the amount of coal burned by the cog railroad is infinitesimally tiny compared to the amount burned daily to provide electricity. Eliminating the use of coal-fired steam generators to produce electric power will reduce the amount of mercury in the environment far more than eliminating the train. Mercury is a very heavy and stable element that sinks in water and distributes itself up the aquatic food chain and then up the non-aquatic food chain (and we are pretty much at the top of that chain in civilization). Given this, the location of the source of mercury is of little consequence over time.

weary

06-19-2006, 08:27

It's mercury that i'm talking about. That's the one that has the most to do with the fact that it's harmful to be eating fish caught in America. Are you trying to tell me that the smoke from that train smokestack has no mercury in it?
Nope. I'm telling you that smoke from the train adds an insignificant amount of mercury as compared with the thousands of tons of mercury that fall on Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont and other eastern states.

fiddlehead

06-19-2006, 22:42

I agree that of all the coal being burned to make electricity, heat plants, etc. The amount of pollution from the smoke billowing out of the cog's engine is minute. However, this is supposedly a protected area and the AMC has the reponsibility of maintaining a pristine environment. How does this polluting, tourist ride, help maintain the fragile alpine, above treeline, environment? beats me!
I remember my first time up there, my friend who was a local, gave me all kinds of verbal abuse for stepping off of the planks one time. So, i wonder: how does he live with looking up into those mountains and continually see that smoke. And when you hike near the tracks, i remember big chunks of unburned coke that either fell out of the cars or was not cumbusted properly and came out of the stack.
My sister road that thing one time and came back with her face (around her mouth and nose) all black. I wonder what that did to her lungs?
Anyway, the least we can do is moon the basta$$$d

Lone Wolf

06-19-2006, 22:53

No. We could blow the mutha***a up!:cool:

weary

06-19-2006, 23:06

I agree that of all the coal being burned to make electricity, heat plants, etc. The amount of pollution from the smoke billowing out of the cog's engine is minute. However, this is supposedly a protected area and the AMC has the reponsibility of maintaining a pristine environment. How does this polluting, tourist ride, help maintain the fragile alpine, above treeline, environment? beats me! ....
The AMC does not have the responsibility of maintaining a pristine environment. That's the job of the US Forest Service. AMC has a license to run the huts and volunteers to maintain some of the trails.

Nor does AMC have any control over the train. The train is owned by a separate business, which also has a license from the US Forest Service, I believe. The train may own its tracks and facilities outright. I really don't know.

I believe the auto road is a separate business that owns the road, but I'm not positive. Again, it has nothing to do with AMC. Nor does AMC have any role in the summit buildings, which are mostly on New Hampshire State land.

Weary

betic4lyf

06-20-2006, 15:54

ive spent some time in the area, and from what i heard from diffrent amc people, especially the amc people i did some trail work with, the cogs impact is very small range, that is, it screws up the area around it, but most of the soot and bad things fall close by, so it doesnt do that much damage to the whole area, compared to cars, whose effect is more sperad out, and effects the whole area. that said, i hate the cog, because seeing those plumes of black smoke ruin the experience for me.

Roland

06-22-2006, 05:25

Those plumes of black smoke will be but a memory, before long. The cog trains are being converted to burn diesel fuel.

Fofer

06-22-2006, 11:35

I voted that I had neveer considered showing my butt to the cog railway only because I had never heard of this and when I hiked from Adams to Washington I didn't moon it. If I had only known about this I would have gladly dropped my drawers.

It was one of those crappy washington days were you could barely see 50 feet and it was snowing, raining, 40 degrees, and windy as all he// by the time we got to the track we were tired and missreable, just dreaming about going inside for a few minutes at the top before continuing on. then that stupid thing showed up full of people, and the dumb @$$ engineer tells us we should get inside because its going to rain. I wanted to throw a lump of coal at him. So me and my girlfriend are standing there waiting for the train to go past, looking like we all do after 2 days on the trail and people were treating us like a tourist attraction comming to our side and taking pictures like it was so strange to see someone hiking the mountain.

I was so proud when I got to the sumit I went in to the shop and bought a Tshirt for me and my girlfriend saying "This BODY climbed Mt. Washington", I wear it alot, and everytime I see one of those bumber stickers saying that the car drove up the Mountain I just think that they took the easy way and I actually accomplished something.

Fofer

rhjanes

06-22-2006, 13:59

Those plumes of black smoke will be but a memory, before long. The cog trains are being converted to burn diesel fuel.

how are they going to throw diesel fuel at hikers??!! :D

Peaks

06-22-2006, 22:06

I was so proud when I got to the sumit I went in to the shop and bought a Tshirt for me and my girlfriend saying "This BODY climbed Mt. Washington", I wear it alot, and everytime I see one of those bumber stickers saying that the car drove up the Mountain I just think that they took the easy way and I actually accomplished something.

Fofer

How about the bumper sticker that says: "The driver of this car ran up Mt. Washington."

Fofer

06-23-2006, 10:56

How about the bumper sticker that says: "The driver of this car ran up Mt. Washington."

I haven't see that one, that sounds like a challenge.

Lone Wolf

06-23-2006, 11:07

You just missed it.
www.mountwashingtonroadrace.com

Frolicking Dinosaurs

06-23-2006, 11:11

how are they going to throw diesel fuel at hikers??!! :DHmmm... let's hope they don't team up with the citizens of Damascus...

Though diesel fuel might improve the smell of some of us.

oyvay

06-26-2006, 14:07

If mooning the cog is childish then what do you call the small group of fans that had tickets to see the Ivory Coast play someone else in the World Cup, but had to do it pantless? The pants were the color of the team (orange), but had a logo of a small German brewery on them. It seems Anhauser-Busch has the sponsor rights to the World Cup and hope to get more Europeans to drink their product (yeah right) and officials wouldn't let the fans in with their pants. So they took them off, went in and cheered in their underwear!

Fofer

06-26-2006, 20:30

DGrav

08-19-2006, 21:22

I was up on Washington on 8/17 and got this pic of the cog receiving a salute.

http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/8/6/1/3/ThruHikersMooningtheCog.JPG

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/%5Bimg%5Dhttp://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/8/6/1/3/ThruHikersMooningtheCog.JPG%5B/img%5D

Nean

08-20-2006, 10:30

Anyway, the least we can do is moon the basta$$$d

Didn't we moon a train out west as well! :D :banana :p :eek:

Lone Wolf

08-20-2006, 10:32

If y'all had real balls you'd disable Hayduke style. Showing your hairy azz is kinda sissy.

latte

08-20-2006, 11:22

You know, I have climbed the mountain several times. I have also section hiked through the area. I have stood on the side of the tracks and waved to the men, women, and CHILDREN, on board. Just because I did this, doesn't mean I have never ridden the train. It was a once in a lifetime event for my choo-choo-train-loving son, at the time 4 years old. It is a special relic, landmark, and link to the past for NH residents who just lost their state favorite "Old Man on the Mountain". The train has been in service for over 100 years. Any damage done, was done decades ago, so currently there are no fragile plants in the train corridor to fight for. Besides, the next time you think about dropping your drawers for the train, think of this....is that the view that you want your child to see, a hairy ass and balls. I don't think so!!!:mad:

Lone Wolf

08-20-2006, 11:26

All those hikers who moon because of "environmental" reasons just left the summit building after gourging on chili, burgers, fies, etc. brought up by exhaust spewing vehicles. Friggin hypocrite hippie wannabes.:)

Nean

08-20-2006, 12:56

think of this....is that the view that you want your child to see, a hairy ass and balls.

Hows about the old man w/ the polaroid! :-? He has his own "traditions":eek:

TwoForty

08-20-2006, 15:28

I don't see how mooning a bunch of fat tourons is going to get that thing off Mt. Washington.

On the other hand, it's all in good fun. As a child I remember going up and down the coast of California in an Amtrak and we always got mooned by surfers down south. I was never offended or scared.

Almost There

08-20-2006, 20:55

The Cog Railway has national historic landmark status...it ain't going anywhere soon!

Newb

08-21-2006, 15:56

I thought the "Old Man of the Mountain" face had fallen off a few years ago.??

Roland

08-21-2006, 18:09

I thought the "Old Man of the Mountain" face had fallen off a few years ago.??
You're right. May 3, 2003. (http://www.franconianotchstatepark.com/oldman.html)

Jaybird

08-22-2006, 05:11

You're right. May 3, 2003. (http://www.franconianotchstatepark.com/oldman.html)

Yea....hold on to those "OLD MAN on the MTN" Quarters!
Might be the only way to ever see it!:D

It WUZ quite a site.

cogman

09-14-2006, 02:17

The Cog has been there since the 1860's. I guess the user who refered to it as "modern technology" was speaking in relative terms huh? Like another poster said "it does have national historic landmark status". For those of you who think of it as a big ugly polluter... please educate yourselves. Yes, burning fossil fuels does pollute, shut down the huge power plants in the midwest, not the Cog. It is a working museum, the first and last of it's kind. For those of you who look at the black smoke in disgust... most gasses that pollute are invisible, the black is unburnt coal and carbon, get over it. Because of you people, the Cog has been trying to convert to oil burners that pollute 10 times more but look better and are politically correct. How do I know this? I started working at the Cog in the 1970's as a summer job when I was in high school. Have been a "cogger" ever since.

Advice to the mooners:

Never moon while down wind of the Cog, I have a really dusty shovelfull of coal just for you. It's a bonus if I have a hole in my bonnet (the screen that stops big red hot cinders from getting out) and I've sent many of you running and screaming while scrambling to pull up your pants. Don't like the Cog? Get a life!

rickb

09-14-2006, 06:26

Hey Cogman--

Welcome to Whiteblaze!

You won't see my drawers pulled down, and I know that the Cog isn't going anywhere soon, but here is a request..,,

Can you cut down on how often you blow that %^&#% whistle? I know that it might be fun for some of the little kid's riding up with you, but geesh.

Its not like we don't know you are there, and people who are walking in that area have to listen to it for many miles over a very wide footprint.

Rick B

cogman

09-14-2006, 07:26

Hey rickboudrie,
That's interesting, I've never heard that complaint before. Glad you have more class than some others and don't pull your pants down in front of a coach full of family people.

Yes, they are steam locomotives, yes the whistle is loud and yes, the little kids love it. I usually blow the whistle 3-4 times a trip and that includes leaving and arriving the base, leaving and arriving the summit. Did you know we have about 7 trains?

If I blow my whistle between skyline and the summit it's usually because a hiker signaled me to and I give them a quick "toot". I guess I could be mean instead, huh? Now I have to decide between you and the little kids, what should I do?

By the way, I and many other Coggers have also hiked Mt Wash many many times. I don't like hiking but have found myself doing it over and over to carry one of you hikers down. Thank God for the Fish and Game! We don't do it so often now, we just provide rides to lot's of people who hike down the wrong side of the mountain and such.

jpepper

09-16-2006, 04:56

If y'all had real balls you'd disable Hayduke style. Showing your hairy azz is kinda sissy.

Hell yeah, wrench em up real good!!!!

fiddlehead

09-16-2006, 05:38

The Old Fhart

09-16-2006, 07:59

Tin Man

09-16-2006, 08:08

Fisrt of all, mooning the Cog isnt a "tradition", just aberrant behavior. Second, how does mooning the Cog do anything productive in your wanting to get the Cog off the mountain? If you don't like the golden arches or Walmart do you moon the cashiers? The people working for the Cog and the families riding it deserve the same respect as anyone else you'd meet on the trail. Mooning the Cog only causes others to view all thru-hikers as immature troglodytes and that is counter-productive.

This is good to hear. I was not looking forward to carrying out this "tradition". :rolleyes:

I like the fact that the cog is still there and don't believe it should be removed or changed. In a land of wal-marts and golden arches, the cog with all the trimmings (smoke and horn) is reminiscent of the good old days and I hope it stays.

Heater

09-16-2006, 10:30

[quote=The Old Fhart]Fisrt of all, mooning the Cog isnt a "tradition", just aberrant behavior. Second, how does mooning the Cog do anything productive in your wanting to get the Cog off the mountain? If you don't like the golden arches or Walmart do you moon the cashiers? [\quote]

I did moon the folks at Churches Fried Chicken once.... They really pissed me off!
I was young. I have mellowed since. :sun

Sly

09-16-2006, 17:02

Fisrt of all, mooning the Cog isnt a "tradition", just aberrant behavior.

If it's not at tradition, how does everyone know about it? Even the engineer/conductor gets passengers pumped up for it. It's really no more aberrant than thru-hiking.

Jan LiteShoe

09-16-2006, 17:32

Sly

09-16-2006, 17:58

Maybe if everyone wore a thong and waxed their butts, it would become universally acceptable!

Heater

09-16-2006, 18:35

Maybe if everyone wore a thong and waxed their butts, it would become universally acceptable!

You would't say that if you ever saw "Leslie" Cochran in his tiger striped thong parading through the streets of Austin. Scary! :bse

Google it if you dare. :eek:

Sly

09-16-2006, 19:43

You would't say that if you ever saw "Leslie" Cochran in his tiger striped thong parading through the streets of Austin. Scary! :bse

Google it if you dare. :eek:

Oh wow, a bearded cross dresser! All that's missing is a pack, a kilt and a hammock! ;)

Tin Man

09-16-2006, 22:24

When the time came, it was inevitable that I add to the pristine environment. The cog-folk cheered and clapped - hardly traumatized. I knew their enjoyment stemmed not from my particular assests but from the zeitgeist spirit of fun and irreverernce and yes, tradition. Good times. No regrets.

LOL. Well, since you put it that way... I still ain't gonna do it, but I am glad you had fun with it. I know how my wife and kids would react, so don't expect everyone to be cheering.

fiddlehead

09-17-2006, 10:22

Fisrt of all, mooning the Cog isnt a "tradition", just aberrant behavior. Second, how does mooning the Cog do anything productive in your wanting to get the Cog off the mountain? If you don't like the golden arches or Walmart do you moon the cashiers? The people working for the Cog and the families riding it deserve the same respect as anyone else you'd meet on the trail. Mooning the Cog only causes others to view all thru-hikers as immature troglodytes and that is counter-productive.

I heard just as much about mooning the cog on my first thru-hike as i did about the ice cream challenge and the Kennebec crossing. I think you are wrong and it is "tradition". As long as the cog is running, thru-hikers are going to moon it. I'd bet that 80% view it is fun. (on both sides)

If it isn't tradition on the AT, nothing is.
I hike for fun!

Nean

09-17-2006, 10:46

Even the engineer/conductor gets passengers pumped up for it.

That's a question I had for cogman. Are the passengers surprised or do they pick their seats w/ a view in mind? :-? :eek:

Isn't there a cogman with a polaroid who tries to convince young men that mooning is "tradition"? Woops, sorry, 'nother thread. :rolleyes: :eek:

MOWGLI

09-17-2006, 10:54

I was going to do it, but after meeting my sister and some friends atop Mt. Washington, I forgot all about it. My two friends joined me to hike to Gorham, and when the weather got socked in - we put our packs on and hurried off the mountain. As we walked away towards Mt. Madison, I saw the cog chugging along and realized I had missed my opportunity. No biggee. I didn't finish the half gallon of ice cream either.

Lone Wolf

09-17-2006, 11:12

If it's so fun, accepted and traditional why don't y'all start doing it at Trail Days during the parade too. Local families would think it's adorable.

Tin Man

09-17-2006, 11:14

If it's so fun, accepted and traditional why don't y'all start doing it at Trail Days during the parade too. Local families would think it's adorable.

That might spoil the plans for fart baseball after the parade. :D

fiddlehead

09-17-2006, 11:15

Lone Wolf

09-17-2006, 11:18

You'd get arrested there. It's already happened LW. You should remember that. I believe it was in 91 when someone mooned the crowd in the parade (or was it the talent show) and got immedietly carted off to jail. Biker Hiker and others had to take a collection to get him out of there. I forget a lot of the details. Damn my memory sucks sometimes.
He didn't moon. He was dressed in drag on stage and flashed his peenie. Was told by the cops if he did it again he was going to jail. The idiot did it again and went to jail. *** em.

The Old Fhart

09-17-2006, 11:26

fiddlehead-"I think you are wrong and it is "tradition". As long as the cog is running, thru-hikers are going to moon it. I'd bet that 80% view it is fun. (on both sides)

If it isn't tradition on the AT, nothing is."People rob banks and convenience stores on a regular basis too but that doesn't make such behavior a "tradition". Everyone who has been to a zoo has seen similar behavior for monkeys and other primates but that certainly doesn't mean you have to lower yourself to imitate those animals.

"Bottom" line:D is that mooning the Cog isn't acceptable behavior and only causes non-hikers to view thru-hikers as a sub-species of degenerates. Will some hikers continue to do it? I'm sure you will.:p

If it is just good fun, harmless, and a tradition-prove it. You contact the ATC and if they will post here saying mooning the Cog is an acceptable "tradition" to be encouraged, and you'll do it in the hiker parade as suggested, I'll agree.:rolleyes:

Nean

09-17-2006, 11:28

You'd get arrested there. It's already happened LW. You should remember that. I believe it was in 91 when someone mooned the crowd in the parade (or was it the talent show) and got immedietly carted off to jail. Biker Hiker and others had to take a collection to get him out of there. I forget a lot of the details. Damn my memory sucks sometimes.

That was a flash (the other side of the moon) and I believe the kid was drunk as well.
I just saw one of Old Fharts photos of the hiker parade though. I think you may recall seeing that full moon before LW. :D

fiddlehead

09-17-2006, 11:47

People rob banks and convenience stores on a regular basis too but that doesn't make such behavior a "tradition". Everyone who has been to a zoo has seen similar behavior for monkeys and other primates but that certainly doesn't mean you have to lower yourself to imitate those animals.

"Bottom" line:D is that mooning the Cog isn't acceptable behavior and only causes non-hikers to view thru-hikers as a sub-species of degenerates. Will some hikers continue to do it? I'm sure you will.:p

If it is just good fun, harmless, and a tradition-prove it. You contact the ATC and if they will post here saying mooning the Cog is an acceptable "tradition" to be encouraged, and you'll do it in the hiker parade as suggested, I'll agree.:rolleyes:

Our bottom lines are not the same. Of course the ATC isn't going to ok something that's probably not within the law. That doesn't mean it's not something that is fun for most and will continue i'm sure. (and glad)

The Old Fhart

09-17-2006, 14:06

Fiddlehead-"Of course the ATC isn't going to ok something that's probably not within the law. That doesn't mean it's not something that is fun for most and will continue i'm sure. (and glad)"So what you're saying is that if you consider it "fun", even though it is illegal, it is ok to do? Some people might consider stealing stuff from the Underwear Guys "fun for most" as well. Is this still ok and would you be glad if it continued?:-?

rickb

09-17-2006, 14:31

I am thinking that the "tradition" is similar to that of chanting "Yankees Suck":

1. Those that partake in the practice can't be reasoned with
2. No one can deny the well-founded feelings at the root of this behavior
3. Women and childeren are scarred for life when exposed
4. Both traditions lead to tribal bonding and mirth among some

And most imortantly

5. No one knows when they started, but surely it wasn't that long ago

weary

09-17-2006, 15:22

....And most importantly
No one knows when they started, but surely it wasn't that long ago
In 1993 I heard often about the tradition of the ice cream challenge, numerous cookie and ice cream ladies, and trail magic. But I don't recall anyone talking about mooning the cog railway.

Of course it was a bit cold that mid-September day. We had been forced to stay an extra night at Lake of the Clouds by snow and 90-mile an hour winds. Things moderated in the rush to get to Madison Springs. But I'm quite sure no one was tempted to drop their pants voluntarily.

Weary

MOWGLI

09-17-2006, 15:24

I am thinking that the "tradition" is similar to that of chanting "Yankees Suck":

What are you saying? That Red Sox fans are more likely to bare their asses in public? That's a very persuasive argument! ;)

Lone Wolf

09-17-2006, 17:06

Mooning must be one of them latent homo or exhibishionist things. I don't know of any women doing it. Grown men showing their bare butts and genitals to children and thinking it's fun...hmmmm.:-?

Sly

09-17-2006, 17:36

Mooning must be one of them latent homo or exhibishionist things. I don't know of any women doing it. Grown men showing their bare butts and genitals to children and thinking it's fun...hmmmm.:-?

Whadda mean? Liteshoe just posted, she mooned the Cog! No genitals, just bare butt .... ( ! )

It wasn't just fun, it was a blast! I missed the train where the trail crosses the track and was kind of bummed (no pun intended) Hiking about 30 yards paralllel to the rail, I saw another coming up and timed it just right that without breaking stride, I hiked to the top of a huge rock cairn, turned and dropped trou, hooted and raised my poles. The crowd on the train went wild! I pulled my shorts back up, climbed off the cairn and continued on. I laughed all the way to Madison!

bfitz

09-17-2006, 18:44

So what you're saying is that if you consider it "fun", even though it is illegal, it is ok to do? Some people might consider stealing stuff from the Underwear Guys "fun for most" as well. Is this still ok and would you be glad if it continued?:-?Ummm, there are more than a couple illegal things I consider fun, and I think it's dumb that they are illegal, so consider it a form of civil disobedience...except I don't want to attract any attention while doing them...stealing isn't one of them ....and I don't think your analogy is adequate. I could care less either way about mooning the cog, but what the law says isn't always the best guideline to use in life, IMO.

Nean

09-17-2006, 18:53

Ummm,

....and I don't think your analogy is adequate.

I gotta agree w/ fitz. I've come to expect much better from the OF.:D ;)

The Old Fhart

09-17-2006, 19:16

bfitz-"Ummm, there are more than a couple illegal things I consider fun, and I think it's dumb that they are illegal, so consider it a form of civil disobedience...except I don't want to attract any attention while doing them...stealing isn't one of them ....and I don't think your analogy is adequate."Bfitz, Nean, I'm afraid you may have totally missed my point. Fiddlehead =The Underwear Guys. All I was saying is that if something illegal someone else does directly affects Fiddlehead, then he would no longer think of it as fun because it affects his "bottom" line. Don't get hung up on the fact that I used stealing as the point. Would you feel better if I said someone just taking a whiz on his products would be funny? "but what the law says isn't always the best guideline to use in life" that Bfitz said is just meaningless dribble when that illegal act affects you.

As far as civil disobedience goes, neither stealing or thru-hikers mooning the Cog fit in those categories. Both are done to satisfy some character flaw and not to improve the lot of your fellow man.

Heater

09-17-2006, 20:21

Both are done to satisfy some character flaw and not to improve the lot of your fellow man.

I guess you have never broken the law in your life and you are up for sainthood.

:rolleyes:

Give it a rest. :rolleyes:

LostInSpace

09-17-2006, 20:26

Let's see ... driving one mile per hour over the speed limit it illegal, regardless of whether or not it is tolerated. 99.999% of US drivers "consciously" do it at one time or another. Are they doing it to "satisfy" some character flaw?

The Old Fhart

09-17-2006, 20:39

Austexs-"I guess you have never broken the law in your life and you are up for sainthood. "I never said I've never broken the law or that I am a saint. What I haven't done is break the law and try to hide that transgression behind a lie that it was done as an act of civil disobedience or that just because it was "fun", that made it ok.

If you truly believe it is ok-prove it. Go down to your local PTA, church, or police station and moon them while saying it is great fun or civil disobedience, see what happens. If you don't like that I called it a character flaw, would you prefer Lone Wolfs'-"Mooning must be one of them latent homo or exhibishionist things"?

Please explain how mooning the Cog fits into ALDHA's endangered Services Campaign. It is time for you to give it a rest.

Sly

09-17-2006, 23:19

fiddlehead

09-17-2006, 23:34

Bfitz, Nean, I'm afraid you may have totally missed my point. Fiddlehead =The Underwear Guys. All I was saying is that if something illegal someone else does directly affects Fiddlehead, then he would no longer think of it as fun because it affects his "bottom" line.
As far as civil disobedience goes, neither stealing or thru-hikers mooning the Cog fit in those categories. Both are done to satisfy some character flaw and not to improve the lot of your fellow man.

Laws i don't mind breaking: sitting in the back of a pickup truck, hitchiking, certain herbal intake, travelling to Cuba, open container laws, busking, mooning the cog.
Old Fhart, i agree that your anology to my business is pretty stupid. Your discount has just been revoked. See you at the gathering.

The Old Fhart

09-17-2006, 23:51

Sly-"If you said, "Hey Fiddlehead, how woulld you feel if half the hikers mooned the Underwear Guys booth at Trail Days?" instead of comparing it to them stealing you'd have a valid argument. Mooning isn't going to hurt anyone."Obviously the point was that if something, not just mooning, happened to Fiddlehead that directly affected him, he wouldn't be treating it as a joke.

If you really need to make everything "equal" and confine this to mooning, you would have to have the mooners moon an equal number of people as would be on the train and still have the mooning be just "fun". The examples of doing the mooning during the Trail Days parade or to a school would be about on par. If you don't think these 2 examples are ok, then mooning the Cog isn't ok either. If you think all these are ok, you have some real problems!;)

Also if you are trying to justify mooning the Cog by arguing about who reports it, or comparing it to speed limits, or saying it is victimless, nothing anyone could say will convince you that it is just plain wrong.

RITBlake

09-18-2006, 00:04

edit - accidental repost

Sly

09-18-2006, 00:04

This is why I can't take the AT any more, too much drama!

I think I just take my ass out to the CDT and moon that railway...

http://www.cumbresandtoltec.com/

Sly

09-18-2006, 00:06

LOL... There you go RIT, great photos!

Heater

09-18-2006, 00:14

I never said I've never broken the law or that I am a saint. What I haven't done is break the law and try to hide that transgression behind a lie that it was done as an act of civil disobedience

A "lie"? It is an act of civil disobedience to some.

or that just because it was "fun", that made it ok.

Most acts of civil disobedience are against the law and while some are sort of "fun", I guess right or wrong is a matter of perspective.

If you truly believe it is ok-prove it. Go down to your local PTA, church, or police station and moon them while saying it is great fun or civil disobedience, see what happens.

What would that prove? If you're so upset anout this, maybe you should hop on down there and start making some citizen arrests.
If law enforcement, the Cog railway or the people riding the trains in the area were as wound up about this as you seem to be, I am sure they would be down there doing something about it. That must not be the case.

It is all up to you now, O' saviour of the Cog tracks and keeper of the peace. You are allowed ONE bullet but it must be carried in the shirt pocket at all times. :p

If you don't like that I called it a character flaw, would you prefer Lone Wolfs'-"Mooning must be one of them latent homo or exhibishionist things"?

Naw. that's just plain stoooopid. :rolleyes:

Please explain how mooning the Cog fits into ALDHA's endangered Services Campaign. It is time for you to give it a rest.

Ya know, I probably wasn't goig to do it but, on second thought, maybe I WILL moon the cog when I see it. When I do I'll be sure to lrt loose a nig phart.. (in your honor, of course) :D

I'll give you a heads up so you can be there to make your citizens arrest.
:D

fiddlehead

09-18-2006, 00:16

Hey Sly, have you ever heard that story about when Lori, Slo Ryd, Nean, Mr. Miz, H, and me mooned that train on Cumbres pass that you are talking about.
We were riding the mini guage train back up to the pass after a few days in Chama and on the way up, were telling stories about folks mooning the cog back in NH on the AT. Halfway up the mtn, the train broke down and we jumped out and hiked up to the road and hitched the rest of the way to the pass. With Lori along, it didn't take us long to get a ride and we all climbed in the back of the same pickup. (i know old fhart,we were breaking the law big time by doing that but we really wanted to get back up to the trail) Started hiking and after about a half mile, we heard the train coming, so we quickly found a spot where the tracks went right by the trail and got ready, when they came by, we all turned around on cue and mooned the train. Then just continued walking.

Turns out that we got turned back a few days later from too much snow up on the divide and headed back to Chama to regroup. We ran into folks from that train that we mooned and they were telling us all the conversations and people claiming to have seen us all. They heard that somebody even claimed it was the highlight of their trip.
I'm sure Nean remembers this day also.
Maybe people in NH need to get out more or something. Perhaps those New England winters are just too long and makes folks bitter or something.

Nean

09-18-2006, 00:25

This is why I can't take the AT any more, too much drama!

I think I just take my ass out to the CDT and moon that railway...

http://www.cumbresandtoltec.com/

yepyep, been there done that. I mentioned it earlier and I'll give Fh a chance to chime in if he likes. That was the day " I never had so much fun w/ my ass.":D I am also proud to say that remains the case.:eek:
I don't recall mooning the cog, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.:rolleyes: I understand your point much better OF. Thanks.... but back to Trail Days and your photo. Do thongs slide? Appears that you are having.... fun. :p

Nean

09-18-2006, 00:36

Darn, I'm a slow typer. :o What a day Fh. And I'll moon a train w/ Lori any day.... yowzaa.:D Sliding down that chute, napping in the meadow and giving those folks a reason to hoot and holler.... yeah, that was a fun day.:)

Nean

09-18-2006, 00:39

And that would be HH aka Skid, just in case someone remembers my good friend H from 96.;)

The Old Fhart

09-18-2006, 06:52

Me-"What I haven't done is break the law and try to hide that transgression behind a lie that it was done as an act of civil disobedience"
Austexs-"A "lie"? It is an act of civil disobedience to some."
Oh please! Many more thru-hikers rant about the AMC huts but no one moons them. You know why? It is because mooning isn’t a form of civil disobedience or the huts would be mooned all the time. If you mooned the huts you would be caught and charged. You only moon the Cog because you can do it and then run away like a coward. :eek:

Austexs-"I guess right or wrong is a matter of perspective."
True. The lawless claim it’s “right” and everyone else not only claims it’s wrong, but has the force of law to back up their claim.

Austexs-"It is all up to you now, O' saviour of the Cog tracks and keeper of the peace."
Thanks for the totally ignorant(read uninformed) response. Over a year and a half ago in this thread a poster said:
“ …maybe instead of baring our asses we could form an advocacy group to get the mountain cleaned up. it would be a positive step,”
To which I replied : "that is an excellent idea. Every year the New Hampshire Chapter AMC has a volunteer summit clean-up weekend. I have been up there twice and the majority of the big crap has been along the Cog tracks. One year we made a large pile of old timbers about 12 feet high that was eventually carted off. The State, Weather Observatory, USFS, and AMC have been trying to get the Cog to be more responsible. There has been minor progress but there is a long way to go."

How many of you “protesters” have even written a letter or sent an e-mail to anyone saying that you protest the Cog being there. I thought so. I have taken positive steps to clean up the summit while the extent of "civil disobedience" of the “protesters” is to moon the Cog and post anonymously there. You’re not only lying, you are hypocrites. I'll repeat this because there are a few of you who don't seem to be able to grasp this simple concept: "The people working for the Cog and the families riding it deserve the same respect as anyone else you'd meet on the trail. Mooning the Cog only causes others to view all thru-hikers as immature troglodytes and that is counter-productive."

Austexs-"....on second thought, maybe I WILL moon the cog when I see it."Make sure you change your name to "Asstexs" first!;)

fiddlehead

09-18-2006, 07:38

. Mooning the Cog only causes others to view all thru-hikers as immature troglodytes and that is counter-productive."
;)

Except for some of those folks it's the highlight of their vacation!
(at least we hear that when we mooned the cumbres train in CO, perhaps the folks in New England are a bit more stuffy)

The Old Fhart

09-18-2006, 07:44

Fiddlehead-"Except for some of those folks it's the highlight of their vacation!
(at least we hear that when we mooned the cumbres train in CO, perhaps the folks in New England are a bit more stuffy)"Ah, so you now admit that you moon as a form of ego-gratification. How childish!:D

bfitz

09-18-2006, 11:28

Ok, you are right...it's not civil disobedience or any other type of activism since my only purpose is to enjoy an activity that is illegal, and don't want to be caught or noticed while doing so, which an activist would in order to attract attention to the issue or whatever. What I'm talking about is harmless fun that some overly judgemental Mrs. Grundy-type somewhere disapproves of and has managed to get outlawed. I'm thinking of prohibition and things like that. So my analogy was also inadequate.

As far as mooning...Well, I think a little of this kind of behavior is good for society. I think that there is a certain intolerance for people having a good time that other people have, and mooning in general is a great protest against this type of thing. Whether it's at a high school football game or whatever, these acts serve a higher purpose...Some people need to lighten up, or be eart attacmade apoplectic so we can all laugh at them while they sputter and fume.

Heater

09-18-2006, 13:33

Oh please! Many more thru-hikers rant about the AMC huts but no one moons them. You know why? It is because mooning isn’t a form of civil disobedience or the huts would be mooned all the time. If you mooned the huts you would be caught and charged. You only moon the Cog because you can do it and then run away like a coward. :eek:

Oh, I think the chances of getting arrested would be pretty slim. The possibility of getting your ass kicked by an upset parent (or at least a good dressing down... pardon the pun) is probably greater. ;)

Thanks for the totally ignorant(read uninformed) response.

No, Phart. It is you that either totally misread my response or simply used it as a springboard to continue your lateset anti-moon rant. :rolleyes:

I really do not understand WHY you get so peeved about this. There must be a story behind it. What is it?

Well Phart. Go ahead. Rant away... :welcome

cogman

09-19-2006, 18:21

Nean,
I'm probably not the best person to answer that as I'm am always in the cab away from the people. From what I've seen it's a mix, some laugh, some are disgusted. My point is really that it just isn't funny dropping your drawers in front of little kids. ...and why do people want to do it? To insult the railway people? I've met some of the greatest people in my life there and I love the place. It's hard not to take the mooning personally ya know?

The site "moonthecog.org" is not just an anti-cog site. Have you all looked at it? They have the word "terrorists" in the name of their group and they are against the AMC and the auto road as well.

Jack Tarlin

09-19-2006, 18:44

Geez, I just checked out their website, which is pretty ridiculous.

However, one interesting thing is that if you look at the site, you'll see stories about thru-hikers and others mooning the cog back in the mid and late seventies, which would seem to call the lie to those who've stated that this dubious "tradition" is a very recent one. (Lone Wolf, for example, said that this behavior only goes back seven or eight years, which is clearly incorrect). People have evidently been doing this for decades, which would certainly qualify it as a "tradition" of sorts. A rude and nasty one perhaps, but a tradition nevertheless.

I am NOT saying that this makes cog moonage correct or praiseworthy. I confess I feel a bit differently than when I first posted on this thread back in 2003 (!!)

The last time I crossed the railroad tracks in question, I kept my shorts on, but whether this was due to a pang of conscience, inclement weather, or the lack of any nearby train, I can't recall. Probably a combination.

rickb

09-19-2006, 19:17

Perhaps I missed the part in the web site that supports the notion of a long-standing tradition of mooning the Cog.

All I saw was a single little ditty where some child and his friends from summer camp mooned the Cog in the 70s. Stories? Was there more than one?

As one who did infact attend summer camp in the 70's I can attest that boys across the country mooned with litttle discretion. My own experiences were mostly in Algonquin park where the effect was limitted by the stablity of our canoes.

Tradition? My arse.

No, mooning the Cog is not a tradition of long standing.

And even less so among thru hikers. But I would like to be directed to the story of a thru hiker mooning the Cog on that web site. FOr historical purposes. I am sure its there, but heck if I could find it.

Jack?

cogman

09-19-2006, 20:47

This is a pretty active forum! I started at the cog in the 70's and don't remember being mooned much until much more recently as in the last decade. I think it may have started in the 70's but it wasn't as popular as it is now.

I don't have any links to the "moonthecog.org" site but a simple whois query of the domain name returns the name and email address of the site's creator. I'm tempted to post it here but I guess I better not.

cogman

09-19-2006, 21:05

It's good to hear the other side of the story from the cogman. Thanks
It's also interesting that you don't like the fact that hikers have a tradition of mooning the cog yet seem to appreciate traditional things. oh yeah, one more thing: we do have a life

We do it for fun!

Fiddlehead, I don't have any issues with tradition. The mooning thing started as a protest against the cog by some very uninformed people. Most mooners are doing so without knowing anything about the history or facts of the Cog. ...and now they are mooning without knowing anything about the history of mooning the Cog. What does it mean? What statement are you making? Most importantly, how do you think other people are interpreting your actions? Is it harmless to go around flipping the bird at people? Mooning can be taken as an insult. I've also made the point that there are children of all ages on the trains. How many people really think it's cool to flash children? I wish someone would adress that point, I'd like to see how someone would try defending it.

ed bell

09-19-2006, 21:06

On a lighter note, I used to walk home from school and as the buses left anyone who walked would get mooned from time to time. The classic was the "pressed ham".:D

Tin Man

09-19-2006, 22:54

Most importantly, how do you think other people are interpreting your actions? Is it harmless to go around flipping the bird at people? Mooning can be taken as an insult. I've also made the point that there are children of all ages on the trains. How many people really think it's cool to flash children? I wish someone would adress that point, I'd like to see how someone would try defending it.

There is no defense when there are young ones around or anyone else who is minding their own business for that matter. I can tell you how my boys, 10 and 12, feel about being mooned. We were mooned on vacation his year (not on Mt. Washington), by some people who thought they were being pretty funny. My boys said it was rude, disgusting and they felt insulted. I have seen my share of moons over the years and while circumstantially it may appear to be amusing, I never considered it polite behavior. Now, when we are discussing protecting the trail and the image of hikers, how is insulting potential fans or future hikers helping?

bfitz

09-19-2006, 22:56

Fiddlehead, I don't have any issues with tradition. The mooning thing started as a protest against the cog by some very uninformed people. Most mooners are doing so without knowing anything about the history or facts of the Cog. ...and now they are mooning without knowing anything about the history of mooning the Cog. What does it mean? What statement are you making? Most importantly, how do you think other people are interpreting your actions? Is it harmless to go around flipping the bird at people? Mooning can be taken as an insult. I've also made the point that there are children of all ages on the trains. How many people really think it's cool to flash children? I wish someone would adress that point, I'd like to see how someone would try defending it. Aw jeez...it just ain't that big a deal! If someone's day is ruined cuz they saw a hiker's butt a 200 paces they've already got plenty of problems. I don't think any kids will be emotionally scarred either...although they might get a giggle out of seeing their uptight parents get all bent outta shape over something so silly!
As far as why, I always thought it was out of jealosy since they had to walk up the mountain and the folks on the train got a ride!

ed bell

09-19-2006, 23:07

As far as why, I always thought it was out of jealosy since they had to walk up the mountain and the folks on the train got a ride!That 's what I thought it was about.;):D

Appalachian Tater

09-19-2006, 23:14

One of the regrets from my thru-hike is that it was much too foggy to bother mooning the cog on the way down from Mt. Washington.

The Old Fhart

09-19-2006, 23:16

Bfitz-"Aw jeez...it just ain't that big a deal! If someone's day is ruined cuz they saw a hiker's butt a 200 paces they've already got plenty of problems. I don't think any kids will be emotionally scarred either......"

Fiddlehead-"We do it for fun!I find it interesting that your rationalization for this behavior is almost word for word what pedophiles say.:-?

bfitz

09-19-2006, 23:19

I find it interesting that your rationalization for this behavior is almost word for word what pedophiles say.:-?
It is, huh?

bfitz

09-19-2006, 23:43

I stand by my statements. Any old fuddy duddies who think comparing a harmless activity like mooning a train to pedophilia, especially after bringing up Godwin's Law on another thread, ought to think again.

The Old Fhart

09-19-2006, 23:45

posted by Bfitz:
Originally Posted by The Old Fhart
I find it interesting that your rationalization for this behavior is almost word for word what pedophiles say.:-?
It is, huh?

Bfitz-"Aw jeez...it just ain't that big a deal! If someone's day is ruined cuz they saw a hiker's butt a 200 paces they've already got plenty of problems. I don't think any kids will be emotionally scarred either..."
From the Encyclopedia of Mental Disorders(emphasis mine):

"Some pedophiles offer rationalizations or excuses that enable them to avoid assuming responsibility for their actions. They may blame the children for being too attractive or sexually provocative. They may also maintain that they are "teaching" the child about "the facts of life" or "love"; this rationalization is frequently offered by pedophiles who have molested children related to them. All these rationalizations may be found in pornography with pedophilic themes."
Do you have your ankle bracelet yet? ;)

bfitz

09-19-2006, 23:52

Do you have your ankle bracelet yet? ;)
It's just that those cog-riders are so damn provocative. Besides, you know they enjoy it! :rolleyes:

cogman

09-20-2006, 06:24

Aw jeez...it just ain't that big a deal! If someone's day is ruined cuz they saw a hiker's butt a 200 paces they've already got plenty of problems. I don't think any kids will be emotionally scarred either...although they might get a giggle out of seeing their uptight parents get all bent outta shape over something so silly!
As far as why, I always thought it was out of jealosy since they had to walk up the mountain and the folks on the train got a ride!

It's the same as flipping someone off. It is an insult, why would you insult people you don't even know? It doesn't ruin my day. I just say "hey *******! the little kids really enjoyed that". My fireman on the other hand, threw coal at them and hit one in the head. Yes, I had to hear about it when we got down. If you want to moon the cog I guess you're gonna moon the cog. I won't throw coal at you. I can't answer for everyone else though, and the latest thing is paint ball guns. Ouch!

MOWGLI

09-20-2006, 06:47

My fireman on the other hand, threw coal at them and hit one in the head.

Isn't that assault? Why is that OK? That's kinda like Old Fhart's photo with the woman baring her buns in downtown Damascus. It's called a double standard.

Maybe you should contact the local authorities and have some police ride the cog undercover during peak thru-hiker season. Arresting a hiker or two will probably stop the practice. Otherwise you're just complaining - which we can all do without. My guess is that the cops have better things to do.

When people start mooning Dunkin' Donuts, something will have to be done! ;)

The Old Fhart

09-20-2006, 07:29

Bfitz-
"....their uptight parents get all bent outta shape over something so silly!"
"I stand by my statements. Any old fuddy duddies who think comparing a harmless activity like mooning a train to pedophilia, especially after bringing up Godwin's Law on another thread, ought to think again."

How comical yet sad. You go from trying to justify exposing yourself to children, to defending someone who brought up an equally disgusting subject(I didn't bring it up). Assuming you even know what Godwin’s law is, all you have to do is go to the WhiteBlaze usage agreement and you will find #8 specifically prohibits posting this group’s flag, or links to it, or any of their symbols. This is the only group that is specifically mentioned in the usage agreement. Maybe you were hoping to score points with skinheads but that subject is verboten. If you want to criticize me for pointing out the inappropriateness of that reference, I’ll gladly wear that criticism as a badge of honor.

Back to your pedophilic tendencies. First you “claim” mooning children does no harm but now, being reminded first hand that kids and parents do get upset, you somehow think the parents are to blame for getting upset and wanting to protect their children from aberrant behavior! Your claiming you know better than the children’s parents what is good for them is another rationalization that perverts use. I said it before and I’ll repeat it here because you just don’t seem to get it-if this mooning activity is not only harmless, but helpful as you say, why can’t you do it wherever you want, like a school or playground? The answer is obvious. This activity is illegal and deviant and anyone who tries to promote it by saying it is good for children needs serious help.

The more you post on this subject, the sleazier it makes you look. Why don’t you quit while you’re behind (and without displaying yours).:eek:

Bravo

09-20-2006, 15:52

The cog was begging for it. What's a guy to do?

bfitz

09-20-2006, 16:39

It's the same as flipping someone off. It is an insult, why would you insult people you don't even know? It doesn't ruin my day. I just say "hey *******! the little kids really enjoyed that". My fireman on the other hand, threw coal at them and hit one in the head. Yes, I had to hear about it when we got down. If you want to moon the cog I guess you're gonna moon the cog. I won't throw coal at you. I can't answer for everyone else though, and the latest thing is paint ball guns. Ouch!
Excellent answer, good deterrant. I myself did not moon for fear of coal.... Though I must say I find flipping the bird to be more offensive, probably because it strikes me as unfunny.

As for old fhart's convoluted argument somehow equating my position with the all time least popular groups ever to have walked aboveground... give the hyperbole a break! The only real damage this tradition does is to the few who get burned by coal. But, given the fact that something so utterly silly could possibly be such an affront to your fragile sensibilities, I have to say from now on I will only moon in situations where I feel I would also flip the the bird...or if it will be really, really fantastically hilarious....which might be the next time we see eachother.....:D

If you can get good with that paintball gun, you might see a reduction in cogmoonery, Cogman..but mooning's been around for a long time, and I get the feeling that it'll be a cherished tradition of sports events, graduations, class photos and other such events for a long long time. ..

bfitz

09-20-2006, 16:46

BTW what I meant, Fhart, was using hyperbolic arguments such as comparing something to the very worst thing anyone can imagine automatically looses the argument. Call it bfitz's corollary.

waterboy99

09-20-2006, 17:04

As a thru-hiker in 1999 I got to the tracks at the same time the Cog Train came by. I waved at the people on the train, they waved back . I took a great photo of the train and hiked on, feeling good with a great memory.

In 03 I rode the Cog Train to the top and just as I had, some thru hikers were just getting to the tracks. I was really glad when all four of them smiled and waved at the people on the train. The people on the train waved back and all was good. People on the train expressed admiration for the hikers, which I doubt they would have if they had been mooned.

MattC

09-20-2006, 17:12

allow me to "butt" in real quick

i think people need to lighten up, so your kids see someones butt from a distance. Have you watched TV in the last year? If people get upset over a verticle smile, they better hope there kids dont watch TV. I hate over protective parents, ones that try to file lawsuits over video games, when they are in fact the ones who bought them. The same parents that got the awesome playground in my town taken down becuase some kid broke his arm. The same parents that wont let there kids ride a bike without 30 sets of diffrent pads on. Kids are supposed to climb trees, fall down, get dirty, and play pranks. LET EM BE KIDS!!!

The Old Fhart

09-20-2006, 18:01

Bfitz-“As for old fhart's convoluted argument somehow equating my position with the all time least popular groups ever to have walked aboveground... give the hyperbole a break!”
Whoa there funny boy! You were the one that tried to drag that previous BS into this thread when you said (emphasis mine):
I stand by my statements. Any old fuddy duddies who think comparing a harmless activity like mooning a train to pedophilia, especially after bringing up Godwin's Law on another thread, ought to think again.to which I replied:

How comical yet sad. You go from trying to justify exposing yourself to children, to defending someone who brought up an equally disgusting subject(I didn't bring it up)(Note-Godwin’s law merely says people that allude to that topic, like you did, automatically lose the argument.)

So you bring up the forbidden subject, I remind you I didn’t bring it up and stated that it was inappropriate and now you are claiming I’m to fault because the subject you brought up offends you! Get a grip on reality. You really ought to read what you post before claiming the exact opposite in your next post.

bfitz

09-20-2006, 18:19

Thanks for the latest play by play, first time you posted the sequential order of our comments correctly (although still contextually distorted)...

BTW what I meant, Fhart, was using hyperbolic arguments such as comparing something to the very worst thing anyone can imagine automatically looses the argument. Call it bfitz's corollary.
If you'd care to read a bit more carefully, I pointed out that to compare something innocuous like mooning a train to something utterly and universally despised like pedophilia is equivalent to the act of using the nameless ones with the crooked swasifix thingy on their flag to make a point, thus invoking similiar consequences to the law in question.

Although you are wise in the ways of pedophilia, you are a bit overzealous in your persecution of cogmooners.

The Old Fhart

09-20-2006, 18:33

Bfitz-"Although you are wise in the ways of pedophilia.........",All of what I know is from reading your post and some clinical training.:D

Lone Wolf

09-20-2006, 19:19

cogman

09-20-2006, 19:53

Isn't that assault? Why is that OK? That's kinda like Old Fhart's photo with the woman baring her buns in downtown Damascus. It's called a double standard.

Maybe you should contact the local authorities and have some police ride the cog undercover during peak thru-hiker season. Arresting a hiker or two will probably stop the practice. Otherwise you're just complaining - which we can all do without. My guess is that the cops have better things to do.

When people start mooning Dunkin' Donuts, something will have to be done! ;)

Where did I say "it's OK"? On the contary I said I did not do this. Why did you take this statement out of context?

They have thought about doing what you suggested and putting cops on the trains.

As far as your statement about complaining, I gave my opinion about an existing topic on this forum. I'm discussing it. Isn't that what the forum is for? Isn't that what you're doing? Help me out here I'm getting confused.

Red Rover

09-20-2006, 19:56

My wife and I just thru hiked the Presidential Range two weeks ago and one of the highlights (if it could be called that given the majestic scenery in every direction) was watching that ridiculous train pass us on the way down the Gulfside Trail (AT). Every passenger was literally standing by the windows with their cameras aimed at us with big smiles on their faces. Not only were they expecting us to moon them but they were ready to snap the picture! Clearly they were prepped. We did not oblige since we weren't thru hiking the AT. If that coal belching choo-choo brings tourist dollars to NH, ..so be it, but they better be prepared for the two cheek salute when we attempt our AT thru in a few years!

cogman

09-20-2006, 20:06

Excellent answer, good deterrant. I myself did not moon for fear of coal.... Though I must say I find flipping the bird to be more offensive, probably because it strikes me as unfunny.

As for old fhart's convoluted argument somehow equating my position with the all time least popular groups ever to have walked aboveground... give the hyperbole a break! The only real damage this tradition does is to the few who get burned by coal. But, given the fact that something so utterly silly could possibly be such an affront to your fragile sensibilities, I have to say from now on I will only moon in situations where I feel I would also flip the the bird...or if it will be really, really fantastically hilarious....which might be the next time we see eachother.....:D

If you can get good with that paintball gun, you might see a reduction in cogmoonery, Cogman..but mooning's been around for a long time, and I get the feeling that it'll be a cherished tradition of sports events, graduations, class photos and other such events for a long long time. ..

Yes, the mooning = flipping bird was one of my points. If more people thought of it this way mooning would surely be reduced. Thanks for changing your ways, I'm so proud to have made a difference! OK, now I'm getting silly. Send me an email, if you're up we'll drink sometime. Want a ride in the cab? Want some coal to hold on to in case we get mooned? Try the other side dude, maybe it's more fun. Seriously though, I haven't thrown coal. At least not yet.

ed bell

09-20-2006, 20:10

They have thought about doing what you suggested and putting cops on the trains.
First off, thanks cogman for taking part in this discussion. Second, I understand you in regards to the coal throwing comment. You never advocated that.
Cops on the trains seems like a total waste to me. Round trip ride to maybe at best see a hiker or two show the moon? Sounds like a waste to me. Maybe the local people are more upset about this than I imagined. Mt. Washington is most certainly a mountain. Seems to me there might be a molehill taking its place here.

MOWGLI

09-20-2006, 20:29

Where did I say "it's OK"? On the contary I said I did not do this. Why did you take this statement out of context?

Well, you didn't condemn the behavior. Then in the next sentence you told us you call the hikers "*******" in front of the very same kids you're trying to protect. Can you see now why that confused me?

As far as your statement about complaining, I gave my opinion about an existing topic on this forum. I'm discussing it. Isn't that what the forum is for? Isn't that what you're doing? Help me out here I'm getting confused.

That's what the forum is for - I suppose. My wife's family is great about complaining about something - and then when I offer solutions, I become the problem. I don't have patience for that kind of stuff. My philosophy is - if you're going to take the energy to complain about something, fix it, or be quiet.

cogman

09-20-2006, 22:29

Well, you didn't condemn the behavior. Then in the next sentence you told us you call the hikers "*******" in front of the very same kids you're trying to protect. Can you see now why that confused me?

That's what the forum is for - I suppose. My wife's family is great about complaining about something - and then when I offer solutions, I become the problem. I don't have patience for that kind of stuff. My philosophy is - if you're going to take the energy to complain about something, fix it, or be quiet.

You're right, I did not condemn the behavior, only said I didn't do it myself.

The people on the train could not see me calling them ******** as I was in the cab and out of the sight of the people. The mooners only knew by reading my lips. I did stick my head out when I sarcastically yelled "the little kids really enjoyed that". Sorry these details weren't clear. My intention was to let them know I thought they were ******** without looking like one myself in front of the people.

I'm not living for this discussion, it doesn't mean all that much to me. I just thought I'd throw my "2 cents" in and thought some of you might be interested in my point of view. It has been interesting and I'm seeing a wide range of opinions here just as my co-workers at the railway differ on this. Some think it's funny and even encourage it. One stops the train, gets out with a shaker bar (a big heavy bar for opening/closing grates and a very effective weapon), chases them down, and often makes them apologize to the people.

I've decided it's just not funny, it's an insult, and feel those that expose their butts, balls, etc. are quite rude and lack respect for others. They are not worth stopping the train for or even throwing coal.