Kids, Dogs, Autism, and my wife on the trail for 3 months??

[lsylvain]

My family and I are planning a hike starting June 2016. We currently live in FL but are moving to ME, so the most logical thing to do is sell all of our earthly possessions and walk there. Well that would be a bit far I think, so what we have decided on is going from Grandma's house, just up the road from Pearisburg, VA to Grandma's house in NH, or at least as close as we can get. I think having a set goal of getting to my parents place in NH will be great motivation for my boys having that "reward" to look forward to on our journey. I just hope I don't have "over the river and through the woods" stuck in my head for 3 months.

On our trip we will have my wife and I along with our two boys who will be 7 and 9 at the time and also a service dog for my youngest who is autistic and potentially our other family dog. So it will definitely be an adventure.

The boys love camping and the outdoors. They can do 5 miles with just their fanny packs easy at 5 and 7 years old and be happy about it and sometimes put up a fuss when we are done because they want to keep going.

My big question are gear for the boys and gear for the dogs. I've done quite a bit of looking around for packs that are actually sized right for kids and can actually hold things, and the dog stuff is just a pain because you have no idea if they will fit and how they will ride on the dogs. So if anyone knows of any sites that sells kid and dog packs that has detailed information on it like the actual torso sizes etc, it would be much appreciated.

Something I've been thinking about doing is getting them both a good sized hydration pack so that while on the trail they can carry communal water/lunch/snacks for the whole family, and my wife and I would split their other gear. They seem to have more trouble with the bulk of a pack than they do with the weight of the pack so I'm thinking give them items that are not only more dense but also gets lighter as the day progresses. If one of them is having a hard time we could just pull over and gulp down some water 4 people could suck down a quart of water and now his pack is 2 lbs lighter. I'm figuring we could have it down to where their packs are basically empty by the end of the day.

Also, can anyone point me in the direction of where I might find trail books that are geared towards a family taking on the AT. Also, any ideas for training for the mountains when you are currently flatlanders 14' above sea level.

Thanks,

[CrumbSnatcher]

welcome to WhiteBlaze!

[The Solemates]

June 2016? training? I suggest you spend every possible day/weekend/week-long vacation doing what you are suggesting between now and then. Then you can decide if you are ready.

[bigcranky]

Sounds great. You have plenty of time to plan and train for a 2016 hike, when your kids will be two years older and have that much more experience.

Gear is a tough one, especially since they will grow - and maybe outgrow - between now and then. Most youth packs have an adjustable suspension so you can change the torso size as they grow. I'd keep their total pack weight with everything at maybe 20% of their body weight, especially for the younger one. Each of them should have their own personal stuff, sleeping bag, bad, etc., and snacks for the day, plus water. They'll need appropriate clothing, though I assume you'll be hiking this in the summer months which is good since they'll need less clothing and a lighter sleeping bag.

You and your wife will need to carry all the shared gear - tents, kitchen gear, and all the food for 4 people and possibly two dogs. That food is the really heavy part. It would be great if the dogs could carry their own food in a small doggie backpack, but of course you'll need to train them for that starting soon. (Start with an empty pack or just the harness for a while, and add weight as they become used to it.)

Our daughter is on the spectrum, and when she was very young hiking was a good thing for her. When she got to middle school and up, she decided that was enough hiking, thankyouverymuch. :)

Have fun with the planning. It might be a good idea for you to get the whole crew out on the Trail next summer for a week, if possible. Hiking in the mountains is different from hiking in Florida. Maybe start at Springer and hike for a week right after school lets out. That'll give everyone a taste of the trail, and give you some valuable information for planning a longer hike -- how to resupply, for example, especially with a big crew of kids and dogs (which makes hitching more difficult, and it's hard to take them all inside the grocery store), and how many miles you can realistically hike in a day, that sort of thing.

Happy trails.

[Bronk]

After 2 or 3 weeks on the trail you will all be in shape. I was a flatlander before I started and I spent 4 months hiking 850 miles.

[Slo-go'en]

Good Luck. Be sure to have a plan "B" if things don't work out. I met a woman who started a thru-hike with three autistic children, ages about 7 to 15. She lasted about 4 days. The main problem was she had never taken the kids out into the woods nor had they ever carried a backpack before. To make matters worse, her husband was in the military, had dropped them off at Springer and then went right off to Afghanistan.

Therefore, before you start this epic journey, be sure to take the whole troop out for at least a week long trip to see how it would go. This is especially important if you don't already have a fair amount of backpacking/camping experience. 5 mile day hikes and car camping really doesn't count. Take a trip to Grandma's place and do that first section of trail out of Pearisburg. While not very difficult, it isn't exactly an easy stretch either and then it gets harder before it gets easier again.

[Spirit Walker]

1. Training the dogs is as important as training the kids. Even though you will be doing low mileage days, their muscles and pads need to become accustomed to all day exercise. Dealing with heat and water needs practice too.
2. About 10% bodyweight in the kids and dog packs (though probably not the service dog, since he already has a job.) Don't give the dogs anything that would be a problem if they lost it (i.e. the tent, expensive camera, etc.)
3. With that many people and dogs, you'll need either a huge tent or two large tents. You will not be able to stay in the shelters, unless they are empty.
4. Kids and dogs determine the pace. If anybody is struggling, you stop.
5. There are some good books about backpacking with kids. I don't know if Cindy Ross' book is still available, but she did a lot of hiking with hers when they were young. One thing she said was that kids can't just hike all day. You need to break it up. Set up the tent and play games or read for a while, then move on.
6. In your practice hikes, go out on some rainy days. Learn how to deal with wet dogs and kids on the drizzly dreary days.
7. Both dogs on leash at all times. You don't want to have to deal with lost or injured dogs on your hike.

[Feral Bill]

[QUOTE=Spirit Walker;1914566]
2. About 10% bodyweight in the kids and dog packs (though probably not the service dog, since he already has a job.)

I consider this very conservative, and not practical with one adult toting the rest. Of course, it depends on the child. The rest of SW's advice is excellent.

[booney_1]

I would definitely challenge you to do some long weekends, and a couple week long trips.
As a parent and boy scout leader (cubs through explorer), this seems like a completely unreasonable thing to do.

A certain amount of discipline, and single mindedness is required to get up everyday and hike...and hike...and hike. Your kids will get tired of it very quickly. When doing section of hikes of a week with 16 year olds, who love backpacking, there are times that you really have to push them. There are long climbs, and sections with scant water.

And you are adding two dogs...and one of the children is autistic. Dog food is heavy...it also can be hard to find.

You can read the threads here about hiking with dogs...people do it successfully, but it adds a layer of difficulty. Some dogs lose their appetite. Some dogs get sore feet. They can have trouble with the sounds in the woods at night..(ie they bark and wake you). Some dogs can carry a pack, but most don't do well with much weight. For example, I think your dogs will not be able to carry a weeks worth of dog food.

For even an active, athletic child of 7, (without a backpack), on level terrain, a 10 mile day hike is an ordeal. I would guess that after a few weeks of pushing him, they would get their hiking legs...but I'm not sure.

It's asking a lot for you and your wife to carry a large tent...4 sleeping bags...your clothes...kids clothes...dog food...people food for 4...

And with kids, you really need to make sure you have warm clothes, and good rain gear for them.

I'm sure many people will disagree with me...but I've seen too many scouts..(age 11-18) on the trail...to think that taking two kids as young as yours would be practical. (I'm not even going to ask about school...)

[lsylvain]

Lots of info.
The % of body weight issue is where I keep coming into problems with finding packs. We can find adult packs that come in at under 2 pounds, then you find a kid's pack that looks like it might work and it weights 3 lbs or more. Eating up a huge percentage of the weight they could carry. There has got to be a good kids pack that comes in at a pound or less. I did find some really light feeling packs at walmart the other day I discounted them thinking they would disintegrate in a few days but it may very well be the best option.

I've been mulling over the tent issue, me and the boys recently started tarp tenting we haven't tried it with the dogs yet though. The dogs inside a less "secure" tent may end up being nerve racking. We have a 4 person tent but it weighs about 8 lbs I think. Something else I have thought about doing is a sort of combo tent with a two person tent and then a tarp setup off the front. Kids and their dogs in the tent wife and I under the tarp. We would all still be technically sleeping in the same tent but saving a good 4 or more pounds, while keeping kids and dogs somewhat contained.

We definitely have some trips planned, mostly close by. We have a landscaping business that keeps us pretty busy most of the time so any more than a few days off in a row isn't feasible until we sell the business. (yes we have not had a vacation in 8 years.) I'm figuring on doing a lot of day hikes and one/two nighters until then. I also think when we start, we may do a week or so around Pearisburg then go visit the family for a few days or even a week or something then get back on the trail, giving everyone a break in period and allow us to change up anything.

We won't be in any hurry to get anywhere. In fact in the early stages I will probably plan on off days on the trail where we just stay put and chill or just do a few miles, whatever happens to work. We have an autistic son, pretty much every day is whatever happens to work.

Most of our family lives with in a few hours of the trail so if we need to bail out we can an any point without much trouble. We might even try to hook up with some relatives we haven't seen in a long time. My sister is a little ways from Shenandoah, haven't seen her in 10 years.

[bigcranky]

Kids pack: ULA sells a Circuit with an adjustable suspension, designed as a kids pack. I'm not sure if it's aimed at kids as young as yours, though. But you can call them, they are very responsive and helpful. You could also look at some of the custom gearmakers like Zpacks and see if they can make something the right size. These won't be cheap, but they will hold up pretty well. Note that the kids don't need a fancy suspension system to carry 10 pounds.

Tents: Yeah, it's an issue. You could look at the Tarptent Hogback, which will sleep a lot of people and weighs about 4 pounds. If your kids are using short sleeping pads, the dogs can sleep at their feet. We had a Tarptent Rainshadow, which easily sleeps three adults, and we often rigged a 5x8-foot tarp over the entrance for a place to cook dinner and hang out in bad weather. So the Tarptent with a tarp rigged in front will work, too. You might look at some of the large pyramid style tents from Mountain Laurel Design, too, as they might hold lots of people/dogs while weighing under 4 pounds.

If you want some ideas on what it's like to hike with two young children, the Kallin Family thru-hike blog (http://kallinfamily.com/) is a good read.

As a logistical matter, I probably wouldn't start hiking for a week and then get off the trail. In my experience that makes it very difficult to get back on.... :)

[Hot Flash]

To make matters worse, her husband was in the military, had dropped them off at Springer and then went right off to Afghanistan.



How thoughtless of him, going off to risk his life at war.
ಠ_ಠ

[lsylvain]

As a logistical matter, I probably wouldn't start hiking for a week and then get off the trail. In my experience that makes it very difficult to get back on.... :)

Yes, I thought of this as a risky proposition that might kill motivation. However, I'm thinking being stuck with my mother-in law for more than a day or so, everyone will be ready to hit the trail. lol. I was really thinking of it as a resupply stop with the added conveniance of having family to pick us up and run us around and change out any gear or perhaps leave the one family dog, or whatever.

Thanks for the tent info.

[booney_1]

thanks for posting the Kallin family blog. If they had not had pictures I would have thought it was fake. They did an amazing job, I'm quite impressed.
I read someplace else they are the only 16th family with young kids to do the trail. I would note that the parents had previously done a thru hike together. Their idea of a honeymoon was the 100 mile wilderness. They have taken the kids on numerous (and some long) outdoor adventures. When you consider how many 20-something year olds attempt, but then drop out, it puts into perceptive what this family accomplished.

One thing I thought of while reading their blog...one day when the group had split up, Maddy (the 7 year old) got separated from her brother and was temporarily lost. If I had young children on a thru...I'd find someway to use technology...to always be able to track the kids. It's so easy to get turned around in the woods while going for water or just collecting berries. But in addition to walkie-talkies...I suspect there are some gps trackers that might be very helpful. I'm not exactly sure what would work these days. But losing a child would be one of the things I'd worry about.