View Full Version : Winter Camping on Snow
This year I plan on some snow camping and a thought/question has come to mind.
Will a groundsheet or tent bottom freeze to the ground due to melted snow refreezing under a tent overnight?
I have had a water bottle freeze that got left out of the sleeping bag long ago.
I've camped cold but never on snow or ice. I have seen water freeze in mid air after spraying it during a 27 below day in Northern New york once so wondered if this might happen.
Getting one of them better tents and don't want to trash it first thing!
Rolex
garlic08
10-13-2014, 09:17
I've only seen a Tyvek groundsheet freeze to snow and get damaged pulling it up. Coated nylon usually comes right up, at least I've never had a problem in the conditions I've been in. You might consider bringing a small plastic groundsheet, at least the size of your pad. If you have a really good insulating pad, and it's really cold, the snow might not thaw below you. But pressure also melts snow. Consider a second pad layered below your main pad, made of Reflectix duct insulation--a nice, cheap addition especially if you can salvage the insulation from a job site.
Starchild
10-13-2014, 09:35
My Z-Pack Heximid which has a underlayer bug net 'floor' did have sections of snow frozen to it, did stick a tiny bit but pulled up, snow clung to it, was able to break most off but after a while just packed it.
I don't think this would be a problem with a cuban or silnylon floor
Damn Yankee
10-13-2014, 09:55
Getting as much snow out from under your tent will help a great deal. Also, placing a poncho or plastic sheet will keep your tent from sticking.
Tipi Walter
10-13-2014, 10:38
Getting as much snow out from under your tent will help a great deal. Also, placing a poncho or plastic sheet will keep your tent from sticking.
"Getting as much snow out from under your tent" is my technique but I only winter camp in the Southeast mountains so this job rarely needs a snow shovel and instead can be done with the hands in gopher mode. It's tough on the gloves though.
Stomping down 2 feet of snow has never worked for me as then I end up with a lumpy mess---it's better to move this snow in a pristine state and before any stomping is done. Moving stomped snow isn't worthwhile as it's clumped and stuck hard to the ground. On rare occasions we need snow shovels to move 2 feet of snow off the ground for our tents but who carries a snow shovel in the Southeast??
Slo-go'en
10-13-2014, 10:59
If you got a lot of snow, you should have snowshoes, which you use to stomp down a flat spot for the tent. You need to either pack the tent up first thing after you get up or at least pull the bottom up off the snow for a few minutes while it is still warm from body heat. This is where a self supporting tent has an advantage - no stakes or guy lines to deal with. Just be sure it doesn't blow away if your exposed.
Tipi Walter
10-13-2014, 11:42
No one carries snowshoes in the Southeast.
I spent a little bit of time in a cold weather unit in the service and have slept in the snow from the Sierra Nevada area to Norway and never had a problem with a tent sticking to the snow. I enjoyed sleeping on the snow and never removed it from under the tent. It made the ground much more comfortable to sleep on and in my opinion was warmer than removing the snow and sleeping on the bare frozen ground.
Tipi Walter
10-13-2014, 13:44
I spent a little bit of time in a cold weather unit in the service and have slept in the snow from the Sierra Nevada area to Norway and never had a problem with a tent sticking to the snow. I enjoyed sleeping on the snow and never removed it from under the tent. It made the ground much more comfortable to sleep on and in my opinion was warmer than removing the snow and sleeping on the bare frozen ground.
How did you keep from sinking in the snow? Here in the Southeast the snow never gets rock hard and sure I could set up my tent on a foot of snow but as soon as I got inside I'd sink into some very uncomfortable pits.
How did you keep from sinking in the snow? Here in the Southeast the snow never gets rock hard and sure I could set up my tent on a foot of snow but as soon as I got inside I'd sink into some very uncomfortable pits.
We did have skis and snowshoes so we would tamp out a spot quickly. I preferred not to tamp too hard because it made it harder to "erase your presence" when you packed up to leave. I saw some people who would lay the tent out and roll over it before inserting to poles to help tamp out the snow beneath the tent if you did not have snow shores or skis. We were using 4 person free standing North Face tents with a vestibule. With 4 people in the tents there was no free floor space to sink into. All of our packs and gear were stored outside. We used Ridgerest pads and they took up the whole floor basically creating a firm space to sleep on. When you slept the snow would melt a little bit creating a nice form fitting sleeping area especially for those who sleep on their sides. It was very comfortable and you would not sink much.
colorado_rob
10-13-2014, 15:16
Snow is an excellent and relatively warm base to sleep on, much better than frozen ground, and it's really simple to "stomp" (gently f you want) out a nice level platform with snowshoes or skis. Tough to do with just boots though, lumpy as mentioned below.
In hundreds and hundreds of nights of deep-winter camping (or high mountains in the summer!) on snow, I've never had my tent bottom freeze to the snow, but never use a groundsheet of any sort, especially not Tyvek which might stick, if you just have to use a duplicate ground sheet, use plastic, like Polycro (lightest stuff out there, half the weight of Tyvek).
And definitely don't leave water bottles out, nor any water filters! I usually make hot-water bottles out of one or two of my water bottles, makes sleeping bag nice and cozy plus you have lukewarm water ready for the next day's hike (it will stay unfrozen longer if next day is frigid). The ones not in my sleeping bag I keep wrapped in clothes or little cozies.
Tipi Walter
10-13-2014, 15:43
As an aside, back in '81 I was sleeping out in Boone NC during a butt cold 0F snowstorm and was using a PVC boy scout tarp as a ground cloth. In the morning I got up and folded the tarp and it broke into pieces like a saltine cracker.
Slo-go'en
10-13-2014, 16:22
The OP is from Vermont, so there is a good chance he'd be camping in deep snow with frigid temps. The only time you might have trouble with the tent bottom freezing to the snow would be if you don't move it for a day or two, as would be the case if your "base camping" and doing day hikes from that spot. If your packing up and moving on each day, there is much less chance of having a stuck tent.
FlyFishNut
10-13-2014, 18:28
As an aside, back in '81 I was sleeping out in Boone NC during a butt cold 0F snowstorm and was using a PVC boy scout tarp as a ground cloth. In the morning I got up and folded the tarp and it broke into pieces like a saltine cracker.
Haha!
TIPI, I'm planning on snowshoeing / camping in Carver's Gap this winter. Looks like you are familiar with this area. Do you recommend Carver's or another hike in the general area for a snowy adventure?
saltysack
10-13-2014, 19:05
Haha!
TIPI, I'm planning on snowshoeing / camping in Carver's Gap this winter. Looks like you are familiar with this area. Do you recommend Carver's or another hike in the general area for a snowy adventure?
Take micro spikes!! Did the section there last winter....lots of ice not much snow
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Tipi Walter
10-13-2014, 20:09
Haha!
TIPI, I'm planning on snowshoeing / camping in Carver's Gap this winter. Looks like you are familiar with this area. Do you recommend Carver's or another hike in the general area for a snowy adventure?
I'd say the biggest challenge may be parking at Carver's Gap as it's a high mountain gap at around 5,000 feet or higher. Otherwise it's a perfect place to see some tough conditions.
saltysack
10-13-2014, 20:40
Here a few pics from last February...first is from carvers gap...
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/13/622c47d745ba8be8e2191363d0affcec.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/13/9b287f008e88b7ffd85d0eae9e343b79.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/13/8595be9c256b0e34df50b00fca09f1e1.jpg
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Tipi Walter
10-13-2014, 21:29
Excellent pics, Saltysack, and portends what we'll all see soon enough if we're lucky. One of the pics reminds me of a scene at 5,300 feet on Bob Stratton Bald in East TN---
http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2010/15-Days-with-a-Red-Hilleberg/i-PPGJkB8/0/L/TRIP%20105%20098-L.jpg
rocketsocks
10-13-2014, 21:45
Pretty pics people...patiently pondering pulling my poke. :D
FlyFishNut
10-14-2014, 09:00
Great Pics - I have micro spikes and have never used them (looks like a good excuse to break them out).
Regarding the parking - is the road typically plowed to it - or does the state just write it off during bad conditions?
Second Hand
10-14-2014, 09:06
I've done a lot of winter camping in pretty deep snow here in New England. This includes a backpacking trip on the LT in early March, winter trips into the Whites and half dozen camping trips to camp grounds in Maine, New Hampshire, VT and Western MA. I do a winter camping trip with a group of my old college buddies every year and I have another group I do a lot of winter hiking, backpacking and Mountaineering with.
I've never had a problem with a tent or ground cloth sticking to the snow / ice. I agree with Slo-goen. A free standing tent is your best bet. Anything with Guy lines is a pain to set up in deep snow. Use your snow shoes to pack down the snow around you. Bring a large capacity stove to melt snow, cause trust me, even those big rivers get frozen solid when it gets cold enough.
saltysack
10-14-2014, 09:36
Great Pics - I have micro spikes and have never used them (looks like a good excuse to break them out).
Regarding the parking - is the road typically plowed to it - or does the state just write it off during bad conditions?
Get a shuttle from mountain harbour hostel...did the nobo 30 mile from I believe was iron Mtn gap back to hostel..took 2 days...slow going with all the ice....wish I had spikes.....
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Thanks for all the tips. though I'm working out on the road all the time, I have moved to VT recently and the few times off I get to backpack I expect to involve "that white stuff"!
rolex
freightliner
10-14-2014, 13:18
Rolex if you live in Vermont and going to hike in Vermont you don't need a tent there's a shelter on the LT about every 5 miles and some of them even have four walls. My favorite are the lodges around Mount Mansfield
. We used Ridgerest pads and they took up the whole floor basically creating a firm space to sleep on. When you slept the snow would melt a little bit creating a nice form fitting sleeping area especially for those who sleep on their sides. It was very comfortable and you would not sink much.
This was pretty much my experience in Georgia/North Carolina. The days with freezing rain and sleet on old snow were tough for tenting. One night at Sassafras shelter I arrived late on a cold rainy evening, and was immediately called into the shelter so I could avoid sleeping outside in the freezing mess. There were about 9 people packed in the old shelter (built for perhaps half that number) and there wasn't enough room to sleep on your back but no one pitched a tent that night. Hypothermia when hiking or resting and ice accumulating on tents are real issues in weather like that.
When we pitched the tent in the 2 weeks prior to that night, we never bothered to clear snow from the spot first as it would have been too much work.
My tent had mesh in the ceiling, and that got very icy from breathe when it was cold, but the mesh was still packable. The only damage to my tent was a broken pole, probably caused when taking it down in high winds.
If you do choose a ridgerest, make sure it's expedition weight. Nowadays there are other options that might work better, but the advantage to the ridgerest is the durability, especially when you want a warm dry-ish place to sit during the day.
Be warned that if you do encounter cold snowy weather, a lot of your gear will take a beating, not just the bottom of your tent.
wornoutboots
10-14-2014, 21:25
I spent a little bit of time in a cold weather unit in the service and have slept in the snow from the Sierra Nevada area to Norway and never had a problem with a tent sticking to the snow. I enjoyed sleeping on the snow and never removed it from under the tent. It made the ground much more comfortable to sleep on and in my opinion was warmer than removing the snow and sleeping on the bare frozen ground.
I also place my tent directly on the snow, it creates a nice insulating layer. I've never had a problem with my tent sticking to the ground but it has gotten a little lumpy sometimes.
FlyFishNut
10-15-2014, 20:14
If you do choose a ridgerest, make sure it's expedition weight. Nowadays there are other options that might work better, but the advantage to the ridgerest is the durability, especially when you want a warm dry-ish place to sit during the day.
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Bati - This brings up a great point and one I think (hope) I'm ready for; I have a traditional Thermarest and a standard Ridgerest and plan on using them in tandem. The Ridgerest obviously on bottom. Anyone tried this combo or something like this? I know it seems bulky to carry, but being warm at night is pretty friggin' important.
Tipi Walter
10-15-2014, 21:32
Bati - This brings up a great point and one I think (hope) I'm ready for; I have a traditional Thermarest and a standard Ridgerest and plan on using them in tandem. The Ridgerest obviously on bottom. Anyone tried this combo or something like this? I know it seems bulky to carry, but being warm at night is pretty friggin' important.
I've done about every Thermarest combo you can think of for the winter, and even went with an Exped downmat for several years (8R is pretty nice). My current setup is a Thermarest inflatable (40th Anniv pad at 4R) in tandem with a Ridgerest Solar at 3.5R. The Solar is long and in a pinch if my 40th malfunctions I can bend the Solar in half and have a decent winter torso pad at 7R (3.5+3.5).
You're right, I put the Solar under the inflatable. The only drawback to this system is having to strap the foam pad on the outside of the pack and then like a pin cushion picking up thorns in the foam and when pressed down with the inflatable a thorn pinholes my air pad.
Bati - This brings up a great point and one I think (hope) I'm ready for; I have a traditional Thermarest and a standard Ridgerest and plan on using them in tandem. The Ridgerest obviously on bottom. Anyone tried this combo or something like this? I know it seems bulky to carry, but being warm at night is pretty friggin' important.
They may have changed their formula, but it used to be that a standard ridgerest would freeze when it got cold (some point below zero f, I'm not sure where). You probably won't encounter too many nights, if any, at those temperatures, but if you do you may find you can't bend the standard ridgerest to put it in your pack. Other than that it should work fine, but as Tipi Walter says, watch out for thorns. I always rolled by ridgerest the same way so that only one end made contact with the dirt.
freightliner
10-16-2014, 21:54
Bati - This brings up a great point and one I think (hope) I'm ready for; I have a traditional Thermarest and a standard Ridgerest and plan on using them in tandem. The Ridgerest obviously on bottom. Anyone tried this combo or something like this? I know it seems bulky to carry, but being warm at night is pretty friggin' important.
One combo I use in extreme cold winter hikes is my neoair and one of those silver car windshield sun blockers. There very light and fold down enough to fit in my pack. In subzero temps I side it in my sleeping bag and in cold temps i sleep on it above my neoair. I also think it would help me get rescued easier it I got in trouble.
Sarcasm the elf
10-16-2014, 22:10
Bati - This brings up a great point and one I think (hope) I'm ready for; I have a traditional Thermarest and a standard Ridgerest and plan on using them in tandem. The Ridgerest obviously on bottom. Anyone tried this combo or something like this? I know it seems bulky to carry, but being warm at night is pretty friggin' important.
This is what I do as well. I use a thermarest pro-lite on top of my thermarest z-lite foam mattress. It's quite comfortable at 0*f with the rest of my setup.