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saltysack
10-22-2014, 22:05
I just bought a lhg solong6 after tons of research...wanted space for 1 plus small dog and capability of bringing my 8 yr old occasionally... I picked it up Monday evening from outdoor76 in Franklin...went straight out to the trail from standing indian to silers bald first night..then to Wesser bald finishing this morn at the NOC as work schedule changed which prevented me fro continuing on to fontana..


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saltysack
10-22-2014, 22:08
Oops...my question is how do u lessen amount of condensation...both nights interior was soaked...with a down bag this concerns me..I had on side fully vented with awning up...tips??


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The Cleaner
10-22-2014, 22:13
Get a Tarptent Moment DW, fabric inner tent.....

Dogtra
10-22-2014, 22:33
My question is how do u lessen amount of condensation...both nights interior was soaked...with a down bag this concerns me..I had on side fully vented with awning up...tips?

Outside of a suggestion of getting a completely different tent... The only thing I can really say is it is mainly a matter of ventilation - you apparently need more of it. Sorry its not working out so well, saltysack.

Tuckahoe
10-22-2014, 22:39
There is a bit more to it than just ventilation and this link will explain more of the science behind the cause and controlling condensation in your shelter -- http://windowoutdoors.com/WindowOutdoors/Dew%20Frost%20Condensation%20and%20Radiation.htm

rafe
10-22-2014, 22:40
Grrr.. Tough one. Condensation is the bane of these newfangled superlight single-walled tents. One thing I've been told and assume is true: if you have a choice of camping in a meadow or in the woods, the woods will be warmer... ergo, less condensation.

I switched from a tiny double-walled tent (Eureka Solitaire) to a more spacious Tarptent. Love the room in the Tarptent, but the old Eureka was dryer. I've loved the looks of that Solong 6 since I first saw it but feeling a bit of schadenfreude, hearing your report. ;)

saltysack
10-22-2014, 22:43
Get a Tarptent Moment DW, fabric inner tent.....

It's only 18 sq ft vs 30.....need more space for small dog/kid..


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saltysack
10-22-2014, 22:47
Grrr.. Tough one. Condensation is the bane of these newfangled superlight single-walled tents. One thing I've been told and assume is true: if you have a choice of camping in a meadow or in the woods, the woods will be warmer... ergo, less condensation.

I switched from a tiny double-walled tent (Eureka Solitaire) to a more spacious Tarptent. Love the room in the Tarptent, but the old Eureka was dryer. I've loved the looks of that Solong 6 since I first saw it but feeling a bit of schadenfreude, hearing your report. ;)

I love the looks and space....the awning is awesome...I'm hoping I'll get it figured out...It was very damp and cold out...was also camped atop open balds both nights...siler bald and wesser bald by tower...


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Wise Old Owl
10-22-2014, 22:51
over thinking it. Some condensation just happens.

rafe
10-22-2014, 22:53
over thinking it. Some condensation just happens.

Camping in the woods (vs. meadow) will always help. The article in Post #5 explains why. Condensation is not a problem in double-walled tents.

saltysack
10-22-2014, 22:56
I understand it happens I want to do what ever feasible to lessen it.... Guess just didn't notice it as much with my old tent


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Tuckahoe
10-22-2014, 22:59
Camping in the woods (vs. meadow) will always help. The article in Post #5 explains why. Condensation is not a problem in double-walled tents.


.It was very damp and cold out...was also camped atop open balds both nights...siler bald and wesser bald by tower...


That is why there was a problem with condensation.

saltysack
10-22-2014, 23:00
Outside of a suggestion of getting a completely different tent... The only thing I can really say is it is mainly a matter of ventilation - you apparently need more of it. Sorry its not working out so well, saltysack.

It's mine now...but really like the layout for my needs with lil dog/son...by the way the $19.99 Costco down vest turned sleeping bag for my jrt worked great...he was still lil cold under 40 deg so got double layer of down w my parka...http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/22/2b626c369e5bb9e534a03fdcd3191479.jpg


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saltysack
10-22-2014, 23:01
That is why there was a problem with condensation.

That's what I was thinking after the input...thx


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MuddyWaters
10-22-2014, 23:04
Condensation always happens in a closed up tent, even double wall. You just don't notice it inside the tent as much because you can't touch it. It can be somewhat less because the air stays warmer inside and the inner inhibits movement of air to the outer canopy.

Site selection and ventilation and impervious groundcloth are you only tools to mitigate it.

One of the great benefits of open tarp style shelters is minimal condensation compared to more enclosed shelters. My hexamid has always been good to me.

rafe
10-22-2014, 23:10
Condensation always happens in a closed up tent, even double wall. You just don't notice it inside the tent because you can't touch it. Site selection and ventilation and impervious groundcloth are you only tools to mitigate it.

If I don't notice it, it's not an issue. ;)

saltysack
10-22-2014, 23:12
Condensation always happens in a closed up tent, even double wall. You just don't notice it inside the tent as much because you can't touch it. It can be somewhat less because the air stays warmer inside and the inner inhibits movement of air to the outer canopy.

Site selection and ventilation and impervious groundcloth are you only tools to mitigate it.

One of the great benefits of open tarp style shelters is minimal condensation compared to more enclosed shelters. My hexamid has always been good to me.

Didn't think about group cloth? How does that help?


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saltysack
10-22-2014, 23:13
Damn fat fingers...ground


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MuddyWaters
10-22-2014, 23:48
Its not a problem to pack away wet shelters if you dry them later. Always had to do this camping with scouts with conventional double wall. If anything, my hex probably makes less condensation due to ventilation.

Ground moisture diffuses thru floor and condenses on roof. An airtight barrier groundcloth reduces it. Reduces only.

lonehiker
10-23-2014, 01:02
One thing that I do is try to ensure that I ventilate as close to my head as the tent allows. My thought process is that the water vapor I exhale has a better chance of escaping the tent. Also, your orientation to prevailing wind could be a factor as well. My MSR Missing Link ventilated best if set-up perpendicular to the wind with the backside facing into the wind. It seemed counterintuitive to me but worked.

I also carry a small chunk of a super absorbent towel so that I can wipe down walls if the condensation is really bad. Bandanas etc. would work also.

I'm not currently using a single wall tent but I quit using a ground cloth altogether. I don't think I notice any difference with condensation since this change. I made this change based upon a post from Lone Wolf several years ago (maybe 6 years?). Every now and then someone on WB does post a bit of good information.

As MuddyWaters mentioned, pack your tent wet and dry as able. If I know that I will have sun in the evening I will often just set up tent at end of day and allow to dry.

Starchild
10-23-2014, 02:40
Cuban fiber helps as it just does not hold as much water as silnylon. A accidental touch to a wet surface does not have much water to transfer.

The Cleaner
10-23-2014, 06:30
It's only 18 sq ft vs 30.....need more space for small dog/kid..


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rafe
10-23-2014, 06:43
Cuban fiber helps as it just does not hold as much water as silnylon. A accidental touch to a wet surface does not have much water to transfer.

I'm skeptical of this claim. A tent made from plastic film (polyethylene) or aluminum foil would hold no water, yet still have condensation issues.

daddytwosticks
10-23-2014, 07:11
Pitching any shelter on a bald with grass will lead to condensation, especially this time of year. Fog has been brutal in my area the last few weeks. Also, I use a Tarptent Notch. The fly is not attached to the mesh body, so I can keep is separated while packing up in the AM. This allows me opportunities to lay it out to dry during the day as I hike and take breaks. :)

saltysack
10-23-2014, 07:27
Pitching any shelter on a bald with grass will lead to condensation, especially this time of year. Fog has been brutal in my area the last few weeks. Also, I use a Tarptent Notch. The fly is not attached to the mesh body, so I can keep is separated while packing up in the AM. This allows me opportunities to lay it out to dry during the day as I hike and take breaks. :)

I thinks it's was mainly operator error due to set up location....I like the notch but has half the space....


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HeartWalker
10-23-2014, 07:59
You have a great shelter. I have the Cuben fiber version. Weather and site selection are major factors. Avoid grassy open spaces. Some condensation is sometimes unavoidable. Enjoy. Great outfitter Outdoor 76.

Grampsb
10-23-2014, 08:06
Here's another good article on the subject
https://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/process#.VEju-ckxq9U

Grampsb
10-23-2014, 08:07
You need to be a member to read the article

misterfloyd
10-23-2014, 08:37
Salty,

I have the same tent. I think that your question was already answered: Cold night-high bald, no wind block= condensation.

On the single wall parts I do have it at times and use a small sham wow to wipe it off in the morning. Was it dripping as you slept? A solution for the toebox you are aware of is slipping you rain gear around that area as a poor bivy... it does work.

I was out last weekend and used my SM skytrekekker. used it at the Beauty spot area, no condinsation. I was really surprised. But I had the poles higher than normal so there was more airflow throughout.

I will read the articles posted by others, but I wanted to drop a line saying I have the same tent, and have had nothing out of the normal. BTW how was the airflow? I always try to keep the canopy pitched even just a little for better ventilation.
Best,
Floyd

saltysack
10-23-2014, 08:37
Thx for input...really like the shelter esp the awning is huge!


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garlic08
10-23-2014, 08:40
More on site selection: If you're familiar with mountain diurnal weather patterns, you'll understand that cooler nighttime air migrates to valleys. The ridges can be warmer, with lower RH. On the AT, I'd usually choose a site on a breezy ridge before descending in to the fog-prone valley below. I'd wake up dry, then get pants legs and shoes soaked in dew as I trudged through the bottomland, glad I didn't camp down there.

Of course, this usually means a dry camp and carrying more water to your campsite. On the AT, I'd have dinner and wash up at a stream then hike on to a dry camp carrying a small bottle of water. It's seldom more than a few miles to the next water source for breakfast.

Campsites on ridges often had other advantages of fewer bugs, fewer animals accustomed to being fed, breezy on warm nights, often better views, less pounded ground. And looking down at foggy valleys at sunrise is pretty nice, too.

saltysack
10-23-2014, 08:53
More on site selection: If you're familiar with mountain diurnal weather patterns, you'll understand that cooler nighttime air migrates to valleys. The ridges can be warmer, with lower RH. On the AT, I'd usually choose a site on a breezy ridge before descending in to the fog-prone valley below. I'd wake up dry, then get pants legs and shoes soaked in dew as I trudged through the bottomland, glad I didn't camp down there.

Of course, this usually means a dry camp and carrying more water to your campsite. On the AT, I'd have dinner and wash up at a stream then hike on to a dry camp carrying a small bottle of water. It's seldom more than a few miles to the next water source for breakfast.

Campsites on ridges often had other advantages of fewer bugs, fewer animals accustomed to being fed, breezy on warm nights, often better views, less pounded ground. And looking down at foggy valleys at sunrise is pretty nice, too.

Now I'm confused......isn't this opposite what others have been saying?


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Coffee
10-23-2014, 08:59
I have a hexamid twin and generally have been able to avoid heavy condensation by practicing the techniques already mentioned by others. On the occasions where I have had to camp near water adjacent to meadows, I expected condensation and took some steps to keep my gear dry such as covering the foot end of my sleeping bag with my rain jacket (unless the jacket was wet, of course). I found it much easier to avoid condensation on the John Muir Trail than in Colorado, probably due to differences in humidity. On the AT, I avoid the humidity of summer for the most part by hiking elsewhere. On my spring AT section this year, I mostly avoided condensation by choosing campsites carefully.

Tuckahoe
10-23-2014, 09:02
Now I'm confused......isn't this opposite what others have been saying?




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Not really. Here is an article about temperature inversion and campsite selection -- http://windowoutdoors.com/WindowOutdoors/Temperature%20Inversion.html

Infact read the other articles on the website -- http://windowoutdoors.com/WindowOutdoors/Window%20Outdoors.htm

ralph23
10-23-2014, 09:09
You should do some reading on controlling condensation as it is vital to understand the relationship between temperature and relative humidity. Some hints at camping with a single wall shelter include:
Ventilation- You need a lot of it. To the point where I cut a vent hole in the top of my North Face Asylum and sewed in a screen. Your exhaled breath is highly humid and you need to find ways to vent it. Other sources of humid air include wet clothes or gear, sweating from too many clothes on in your bag, an animal in the tent.
Site selection- Valleys tend to have less breeze to facilitate ventilation and more humidity. You are better off camping up high.
Weather- You are going to have an especially hard time controlling the condensation when it rains or when it drops below freezing. With that said, it is still possible to minimize it and enjoy your night.
Gear- Given the choice of a single wall tent you should probably ditch the down bag and go with something that will dry easier.

My first couple of nights in the Asylum were drenched and miserable. I did some research and now I sleep dry every night.

Colter
10-23-2014, 11:15
Gear- Given the choice of a single wall tent you should probably ditch the down bag and go with something that will dry easier...

I respectfully disagree with that sentiment. A single wall shelter with a down bag is a standard gear combo for thru-hikers.

I use of the simple steps to minimize condensation ralph23 and others have already suggested but I don't worry too much about it other than avoiding touching the walls.

Under some conditions I find it impossible to avoid condensation. If it's bad enough that I'm concerned about dripping, I'll wipe down the inside, but that might be once a month.

mankind117
10-23-2014, 12:04
Condensation happens, get a double wall tent.

colorado_rob
10-23-2014, 12:17
Probably already mentioned, but yeah, just cross vent it somehow, I use both a single wall and double wall tent.

For any tent, it's just a trade off for warmth and ventilation. Less ventilation, more warmth but more condensation. More ventilation, less warmth and less condensation, simple as that. I honestly don't notice a huge difference in single vs. double wall, unless of course I don't ventilate the single wall enough. In the middle of summer, I carry the single wall, because warmth is no problem and I can vent it very well; the tent basically keep me dry and keeps bugs away (full net). Fall through spring, I carry a double wall, venting it less to make it warmer. Simple as that, really.

HooKooDooKu
10-23-2014, 14:42
Condensation happens, get a double wall tent.
Double wall ain't no cure.

I've only ever owned double wall tents... Kelty and Big Agnes tents to be specific. Most of my hiking is done in the humid Smoky Mountains and I've noticed a huge difference in the condensation I get on the fabrics used by Kelty compared to the fabrics used by Big Agnes. Now it might just be a coincidence, but every time I've used either Big Agnes tent, I've had condensation on the fly no mater how much I had the tent ventilated. But I seem to only get condensation on the Kelty if rain causes me to close most of the rain fly. If I can keep the rain fly folded back on the Kelty, I get pretty much no condensation if weather is good. But even with the fly folded back and good weather, I always have condensation on the Big Agnes.

(BTW, I specifically own the Big Agnes Lynx Pass 2, Big Agnes Copper Spur UL 2, Kelty Vortex 2 (predecessor to the current Gunnison line) and Kelty Gunnison 3.1)

Greyson2
10-23-2014, 16:11
I have the same exact tent! It took a few trips to figure out how to manage the condensation, but now its not bad at all. Stay in the middle of the tent, don't touch the walls, keep it open as much as possible and lengthen the poles so the tent is taut. Moving/touching the walls to much is the biggest problem i have when going with my daughter and dog. But if you move wisely, you will stay dry.
Also... To keep the corners spacious you want to stake the four corners, go inside and put the poles up, and THEN go back out and stake the other two stakes that go on the side of the tent. It seemed to give me a lot more space doing it this way. It may be obvious, but it took me a few trips to figure that out. Good luck, and dont get discouraged you bought a very nice tent.

Ender
10-23-2014, 16:12
Hold on a second, isn't the SoLong a double-wall shelter?

saltysack
10-23-2014, 16:25
Hold on a second, isn't the SoLong a double-wall shelter?

Hybrid


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daddytwosticks
10-23-2014, 16:27
Now that we are all confused, I think that we can all agree that pitching your shelter on grass (like the two balds the OP mentioned) will tend to cause way more trapped condensation that if pitched on bare dirt or forest duff. :)

Ender
10-23-2014, 16:45
Hybrid

So it is. I was thinking it was the same build as the Solo, but looking at photos on their website it's actually a bit different. The Solo is pretty much a fully double-wall setup, but the SoLong is definitely more hybrid. Huh. I learn something new every day. Now and know, and knowing is half the battle.

Furlough
10-24-2014, 06:55
Damn fat fingers...ground
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I have no science behind this, but.... I have lessened my condensation issues through, fiddling around with ventilation, site selection as mentioned above, and switching out my silnyl ground cloth for an old piece of tyvek. Again no science behind the tyvek. The other tool is a good micro cloth for wiping down the interior. Additionally, when it is cold and damp out I will wrap the foot end of my sleeping bag with my rain jacket.

saltysack
10-24-2014, 08:22
I have no science behind this, but.... I have lessened my condensation issues through, fiddling around with ventilation, site selection as mentioned above, and switching out my silnyl ground cloth for an old piece of tyvek. Again no science behind the tyvek. The other tool is a good micro cloth for wiping down the interior. Additionally, when it is cold and damp out I will wrap the foot end of my sleeping bag with my rain jacket.

Think I'll spray the outside of foot box with camp dry...I typically don't use a ground cloth but might try...will definitely bring a micro cloth to wipe out interior in morning.


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saltysack
10-24-2014, 08:45
Probably already mentioned, but yeah, just cross vent it somehow, I use both a single wall and double wall tent.

For any tent, it's just a trade off for warmth and ventilation. Less ventilation, more warmth but more condensation. More ventilation, less warmth and less condensation, simple as that. I honestly don't notice a huge difference in single vs. double wall, unless of course I don't ventilate the single wall enough. In the middle of summer, I carry the single wall, because warmth is no problem and I can vent it very well; the tent basically keep me dry and keeps bugs away (full net). Fall through spring, I carry a double wall, venting it less to make it warmer. Simple as that, really.

I think my problem was I had awning side open down wind but up wind side closed...no cross ventilation....but it was in mid 30's too dam cold for a breeze!!! It was windy..


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QHShowoman
10-24-2014, 08:58
Condensation is not a problem in double-walled tents.


Really? I invite you to spend a few nights in my Big Agnes Fly Creek 2. Worse condensation than either of my Tarptents, even when fully guyed out.

rafe
10-24-2014, 09:16
Really? I invite you to spend a few nights in my Big Agnes Fly Creek 2. Worse condensation than either of my Tarptents, even when fully guyed out.

I can only speak from my own experience. Over the years, probably a half-dozen tents, though only two or three of these were specifically for backpacking. Tarptent Rainbow is my newest. I love most things about it, but it has condensation issues that I do not see in any of the others. My cheapie Eureka Solitaire was cramped and tiny, but never had these issues.

fiddlehead
10-25-2014, 07:18
I know a lot of hikers like to pitch their tents and camp near streams and water.
I learned a while ago, that this often means trouble.
Not only more condensation, but animals, people, and drainage, all love these low spots.
If you can learn to camp with only needing a litre or two of water, camp up on top, with a view (if possible)
Much better idea.
You'll find the solitude you came looking for, no bears (they are down raiding the ones sleeping near their water source of course)
And minimal condensation.

Good luck and have fun!