View Full Version : UL 12lb packs? What are these guys eating
shaughnessey34
10-24-2014, 12:37
OK so I see many posts on ul and sul hiking packs weighing 8 to 12 pound. I'm looking to save weight I'll be headed nobo march 1st so my pack is heavy 55 pounds. What are theses guys eating I have a big appetite so alot of weight is food any suggestions and also how many days should you plan for be resupply
Feral Bill
10-24-2014, 12:49
8-12 Lbs does not include food, water, fuel, or, I expect, clothes normally worn. 55 Lbs, however, is more than we used to carry in the Whites in mid-winter, all up. Take a look at the various gear list threads here and do some real pruning away at that load.
12trysomething
10-24-2014, 12:55
Base weight refers to everything other than consumables (food, fuel, water) - I will offer this to give you an idea of what my base weight was for a shoulder season trip in the Adirondacks in May.
http://youtu.be/L-w4pjjXUnE
As far as food goes, you will need to determine it for yourself, but here is what carried for the same 4.5 day trip. Your food needs will increase the longer you are on the trail.
http://youtu.be/7uRB_J2xc_Y
Good luck!
bigcranky
10-24-2014, 12:57
Those are "base weight," which is all the gear but not food and water. That makes it easier to compare, since total pack weight varies so much depending on how long you'll be out.
Knowing your pack is 55 pounds doesn't tell me anything about the gear you are carrying, so I can't make any suggestions. How many days of food are included in that 55 pounds?
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I agree with all the posters above not knowing what's in your pack that makes it hard to tell you what to cut, for as resupply goes it varies from resupply to the next resupply, what I mean is one resupply might be 5 days long but your next resupply might only be 3 days, what you need to do is get an AT companion or Awol's Guide, then all you really need to do is figure out how many miles per day you plan to do ( this is hard to do before you start hiking ), what I do is when I get to a resupply I will look in my guide, "lets say I am doing 15 MPD", I will start at the resupply I am at, then I will look at the book doing 15mpd increments until my next designated town stop, most resupplies along the AT are 3-5 days in length, Resupplies are hard as heck to figure out until you start hiking, then it becomes pretty simple, DO NOT start at springer MT with more than 3 days of food, your first resupply will be Neel's Gap if you plan to do the approach trail add 1 day of food.
lonehiker
10-24-2014, 15:05
OK so I see many posts on ul and sul hiking packs weighing 8 to 12 pound. I'm looking to save weight I'll be headed nobo march 1st so my pack is heavy 55 pounds. What are theses guys eating I have a big appetite so alot of weight is food any suggestions and also how many days should you plan for be resupply
Read Mr. Tarlin's resupply articles. It is that simple.
shaughnessey34
10-24-2014, 15:20
Thanks those videos were very helpful i was able to loose 22 pounds by removing food items I haven't hiked much of the trail other than Maine ans nh I didn't realize I'd be able to resupply that much I was thinking I needed food for 2 weeks
What are they eating, that's easy......YOUR FOOD!!! I have had the pleasure of supplying a sub twelve pound pack weight thur-hiker with a days food do to his lack of forethought and his growing appetite while at Rousch Gap Shelter this year. He was very proud of his pack weight but having to play that against an empty food bag I would not have been so puffed up about the "sub 12". That being said I am sure that most UL hikers would have the presents of mind to have the food needed to get from A to B without a handout being required.
Speaking with a Ranger at Amicalola station, he said they recommend keeping thru hike packs to under 30 pounds. A base of 15-20 rides pretty dang good. (10-14 even better)
MuddyWaters
10-24-2014, 22:29
What are they eating, that's easy......YOUR FOOD!!! I have had the pleasure of supplying a sub twelve pound pack weight thur-hiker with a days food do to his lack of forethought and his growing appetite while at Rousch Gap Shelter this year. He was very proud of his pack weight but having to play that against an empty food bag I would not have been so puffed up about the "sub 12". That being said I am sure that most UL hikers would have the presents of mind to have the food needed to get from A to B without a handout being required.
Food wt has nothing to do with base weight, at all.
Someone not carrying enough food, is simply stupid, or encountered unforseen circumstances.
If anything, low base weight frees you up to carry MORE food, not less. If you have a pack that can carry it, that is.
In the summer, I'm typically carrying 6 -7 lb base weight, and way more food than folks with heavier packs. I can, because it doesn't matter as much. I can easily do 100 -150 miles between resupply, not 40. I expect I actually could push it as far as 250 mi between resupply if wanted without much trouble,
Starchild
10-24-2014, 22:49
Also just to day 'base weight is nothing but bragging rights' it is what you carry on your back that matters. There are some items/systems that UL's love because it reduces their base weight and they can claim that but increases their carry weight, which they never mention.
Speaking with a Ranger at Amicalola station, he said they recommend keeping thru hike packs to under 30 pounds. A base of 15-20 rides pretty dang good. (10-14 even better)
Even though running the steps to Springer a few times over the years, when 'weighing in' found I was hauling 17lbs including 3 days food and a litre of H2O. Not bad, plus got to talk to the rattlesnake inside :)
atmilkman
10-25-2014, 00:55
Food wt has nothing to do with base weight, at all.
Someone not carrying enough food, is simply stupid, or encountered unforseen circumstances.
If anything, low base weight frees you up to carry MORE food, not less. If you have a pack that can carry it, that is.
In the summer, I'm typically carrying 6 -7 lb base weight, and way more food than folks with heavier packs. I can, because it doesn't matter as much. I can easily do 100 -150 miles between resupply, not 40. I expect I actually could push it as far as 250 mi between resupply if wanted without much trouble,
I think it would be way cool if someone could do a thru-hike in 8 resupplies.
I think it would be way cool if someone could do a thru-hike in 8 resupplies.
Any statement that begins with 'way cool' is questionable. As to resupply, every day on the AT is LIFE, why rush it? Are you being compensated?
atmilkman
10-25-2014, 01:09
Any statement that begins with 'way cool' is questionable. As to resupply, every day on the AT is LIFE, why rush it? Are you being compensated?
I'm not talking about rushing it, I'm talking about staying out 250 miles a pop without resupply.
I'm not talking about rushing it, I'm talking about staying out 250 miles a pop without resupply.
I understand where you are coming from. After years in the Military and having 'grown up' on the AT (literally) your desire to staying out for 250 miles I respect. I have found thru the years, it is not the miles you do, but the friends you make along the walk.
atmilkman
10-25-2014, 01:23
I understand where you are coming from. After years in the Military and having 'grown up' on the AT (literally) your desire to staying out for 250 miles I respect. I have found thru the years, it is not the miles you do, but the friends you make along the walk.
Ain't no way I could stay out 250 miles. MuddyWaters just got me thinking.
atmilkman
10-25-2014, 01:26
Ain't no way I could stay out 250 miles. MuddyWaters just got me thinking.
Heck, I'd have to carry 20 days worth of food.
Heck, I'd have to carry 20 days worth of food.
Plus your conscience...
atmilkman
10-25-2014, 01:38
Plus your conscience...
Ain't that the truth. I definitely feel guilty eating that much bacon and spam.
Ain't that the truth. I definitely feel guilty eating that much bacon and spam.
Dont forget to eat your conscious.
As long as it isn't my food when I need it, I do not care. But their varity sure must be limited.
I have a number of detailed gear lists with weights and cost for U/L, summer lt. weight and 3 season. Weighrs between 11.5 and 15 lbs. If interested, send me a PM with your email and I will forward.
WILLIAM HAYES
10-27-2014, 22:35
5 days of food is max that i carried except in the 100 mile wilderness i carried more max weight in winter time with 2 liters of h20 is 30 lbs a good rule if you dont put your hands on it at least once a day you dont need to pack it (with exception of first aid kit/meds if you are carrying 55 lbs you need to rethink you pack list
MuddyWaters
10-27-2014, 23:42
Ain't no way I could stay out 250 miles. MuddyWaters just got me thinking.
I don't see any glamour in staying out 250 miles. What that ability does, is let you access areas on foot, that heavier slower people cannot. In fact, I appreciate a nice bed shower, laundry, and real food every week or so. High mileage days do wear you down IMO.
On the last 115 mile stretch of the JMT, I finished with 3 days food left in my bear can. A lot of people have to be resupplied in that stretch by packers. I could have pushed that to around 170 miles on 8 days food. Started that stretch with 25 lb pack including 2l water and 2 lb bear can.
ericmcdaniel
10-28-2014, 01:51
How does keeping your base weight lower equate to a higher "carried" weight?
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How does keeping your base weight lower equate to a higher "carried" weight?
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carried weight is what's on your back. Base weight is everything other than food, water and consumables that is carried in your pack.
I just skimmed the responses to your original post. Seems "base weight" vs actual "carry weight" has been explained. One thing I didn't see mentioned (may have just missed it) was a caution that many folks, myself included, often over estimate the food they need/want. I dare say, for 90% of the AT, none of us will risk starvation if we miss a day or two of meals. Keep that in mind. Yeah, you don't want to be hungry, but there is little chance of you suffering any severe issues if you under estimate a bit.
Take three meals a day, enough food for a mid-morning snack and a mid-afternoon snack each day, then add a small bag of trail mix or hard candy for some in-between fuel. In the beginning, it's a good idea to portion out each meal into plastic bags before you hit the trail. That way you won't be carrying a lot of extra. Stick with that for the first couple of legs of your trip and you will soon learn how you want to adjust. For your first four days, your food should be around 8 or 10 lbs. That would be a generous amount. Make sure to incorporate high-energy food like nuts and peanut butter.
colorado_rob
10-28-2014, 08:23
... One thing I didn't see mentioned (may have just missed it) was a caution that many folks, myself included, often over estimate the food they need/want. I dare say, for 90% of the AT, none of us will risk starvation if we miss a day or two of meals. Keep that in mind. Yeah, you don't want to be hungry, but there is little chance of you suffering any severe issues if you under estimate a bit. This is soooooooo true, way to much carried food out there. If my pack isn't essentially empty of food when I walk into a resupply town, I consider it a failure to plan properly. If it takes longer to get to the next resupply point than planned for, I simply stretch out the food consumption a tad and run very slightly lean for a day or two; easy to make up in town. All I have to do to feel fine is keep the blood sugar up, meaning I "ration" out my trail snacks (carbs) when I run low.
I know this style isn't for every one, but it sure works well for me in my thousands and thousands of miles of trail history.
We got into a long discussion about running out of food when I was hiking the PCT. Assume you are 4 days from a resupply and are going to run out of food 1 day early. Would you:
1. Eat normally and have 3 "good" days and 1 "hungry" day. (or)
2. Start rationing immediately and eat less over 4 days to avoid running out of food knowing your energy level would be off for 4 days.
(yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes..... I know there are other options but these are the only 2 you have in this game....)
kidchill
10-28-2014, 08:32
I choose option 2. And, here's why. When I was starting on the AT, going SOBO, there were days here and there that I would get shaky and have to sit down and eat. Also, while pre-training for the AT, I figured out how hard I could push myself before I would bonk, but once at that point, I would have to sit, eat, and drink. It's better to at least have some calories every day, then starve for a full day (IMO).
I would choose number 2 as well. Easy to cut down and still feel good, have energy, and enjoy every day. Mind you, you may end up eating oatmeal for supper or Mac and Cheese for breakfast - no problem.
As part of a job I had many years ago, I intentionally backpacked the mountains of western PA for over forty miles in three days without eating anything - water only. The first day was relatively bad, after that not all that uncomfortable, your body adjusts. Yeah, energy levels dropped, but was still functioning fine. That was an excellent lesson for me, one that has stuck.
Interesting! I would choose option 1.
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colorado_rob
10-28-2014, 09:10
...
2. Start rationing immediately and eat less over 4 days to avoid running out of food knowing your energy level would be off for 4 days.
Of course our bodies are all different, but I find that when I "ration" and stretch 3 days of food into 4 (for example), my energy level doesn't suffer at all; I'm hungrier, of course, but I find as long as I keep carbs in my bloodstream, my energy levels are fine. The body is amazing in it's ability to regulate your energy levels; I suppose this is simply an evolutionary trait; our distant ancestors probably didn't eat every day, feast and famine, I suppose was common.
Interesting! I would choose option 1.
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See my post above. My experience, Day one of not eating was the worst day. That is my reason for choosing Option 2.
As long as you have enough food to just cut down a bit, I believe one could remain quite comfortable.
I would choose option 2. I have bonked out a few times when I have cut back on food, either intentionally or unintentionally (by forgetting to eat while hiking in the rain).
But I would probably try another approach: try to hike the 4 planned days in 3 days if possible without risk of injury.
Just wanted to add. Trying to stretch out little food for several days probably wouldn't work. On our trip going without food was voluntary, minimal food (two hands full of peanuts per day) was available. The folks who chose to eat the peanuts were miserable the entire three days. Their bodies never adjusted to not eating like those of us who did not eat adjusted. As a result, they felt like we did the first day during the entire hike.
In the situation you presented, however, stretching three days food to four or even five days, probably would not be a problem. At least it wouldn't for me.
I'd rather have 3 normal days and spend day 4 fantasizing about what I was going to eat when I got to town. Going a day without food is probably a good thing to practice.
A few years ago I started a thread about voluntarily going long stretches without water - I still do that - and it really paid off in the arid sections of the PCT because I had a feel for my limits and knew I wasn't going to die if I ran out of water a few miles from a source.
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swisscross
10-28-2014, 09:57
I would choose #1.5.
I get the shakes and have very low energy if I don't eat anything but could stretch the last day with little food in the afternoon knowing I would be in town eating shortly.
ericmcdaniel
10-28-2014, 10:24
Also just to day 'base weight is nothing but bragging rights' it is what you carry on your back that matters. There are some items/systems that UL's love because it reduces their base weight and they can claim that but increases their carry weight, which they never mention.
I understood the difference between base and carry weight, Malto. What I was asking was what items/systems Starchild is talking about that decrease your base weight, but increase your carried weight.
Gambit McCrae
10-28-2014, 10:32
OK so I see many posts on ul and sul hiking packs weighing 8 to 12 pound. I'm looking to save weight I'll be headed nobo march 1st so my pack is heavy 55 pounds. What are theses guys eating I have a big appetite so alot of weight is food any suggestions and also how many days should you plan for be resupply
If pack weight is as said, you are probably looking at gear upgrades to cut weight, which is pricey, but if your gunna be carrying it 2000 miles, it will be well worth it thru and thru
Option 2 and increase MPD avg. No days with absolutely no food if I can help it!
Absolutely, if hungry who says I can't have soup for a mid morning b-fast, oatmeal for dinner(even without water or made with tepid water), have a Ramen dry for snack, eat a Probar for dinner, etc
We got into a long discussion about running out of food when I was hiking the PCT. Assume you are 4 days from a resupply and are going to run out of food 1 day early. Would you:
1. Eat normally and have 3 "good" days and 1 "hungry" day. (or)
2. Start rationing immediately and eat less over 4 days to avoid running out of food knowing your energy level would be off for 4 days.
(yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes..... I know there are other options but these are the only 2 you have in this game....)
i would do a hybrid of option 2. I would cut the daily ration but I would heavily manage my carb intake to meter in the carbs during hiking hours. I would not, for example; eat a high carb dinner. I would save the carbs from that dinner to eat the last day. It's all about the carbs. And yes I have been in this exact situation. Doing this strategy kept me from bonking.
garlic08
10-29-2014, 09:14
We got into a long discussion about running out of food when I was hiking the PCT. Assume you are 4 days from a resupply and are going to run out of food 1 day early. Would you:
1. Eat normally and have 3 "good" days and 1 "hungry" day. (or)
2. Start rationing immediately and eat less over 4 days to avoid running out of food knowing your energy level would be off for 4 days.
(yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes..... I know there are other options but these are the only 2 you have in this game....)
I bet most who have hiked the PCT have had this discussion or this experience. In my group on the PCT, one hiker, in the middle of the Sierra with several days left to resupply, said he could eat everything in his pack right now, and we all basically agreed. But we all rationed it out.
When I'm in a long food-haul situation I typically underpack on food and water (I agree with training yourself to drink less, if you do it smartly) and put up with the hunger and thirst a few times a day, in the interest of a lighter pack and more miles per day. My goal on those hikes has been to average close to 30 miles per day (did a couple of 100 mile stretches in three days on the CDT), and I need a really light pack to do that. That knowledge came at the expense of a few mistakes, all on the heavy side.
I just realized I've never considered bringing too little food a mistake.
The PCT hike was the first time I'd ever, in nearly 50 years of comfortable Western living, gone to bed hungry. I keep reading statistics that over 10% of the world's population does exactly that every night. Doing it once or twice was a good lesson, I thought. It was one of the greater things I learned on the PCT.
One of the things I'm grateful for is realizing that as a U.S. citizen I was addicted to food and the incessant all consuming need for always having a overly satiated appetite. It's consuming in America! Look at the waistlines of U.S. citizens! Through long distance hiking I gained better control of not always having to feed this habit and obtaining that always overly satiated feeling. I now find it feels good to be a little hungry. After awhile I got habituated to better managing my food intake. Some of the things that keep me feeling fuller longer WITHOUT BONKING is drinking plenty of clean clear backcountry water(despite that were told the water is all contaminated), lots of complex carbs including lots of fiber with little to no empty cals(sugar cals for example), a higher % of daily GOOD fat intake in my diet when hiking, consuming a smaller number of cals at a time but more often through constant noshing throughout the day(the so called "drip method"), and by opting for OVERALL highly nutritionally dense trail foods(Notice I did not necessarily say the highest cal/oz food all the time). Nutritionally dense is NOT just referring to carbs(both complex and simple), fats(both good and so called bad), and protein. Food AND ENERGY is more than just those things!
There is now bacon spam.............tried the turkey spam on last hike, not great
Farr Away
10-30-2014, 13:05
I understood the difference between base and carry weight, Malto. What I was asking was what items/systems Starchild is talking about that decrease your base weight, but increase your carried weight.
Decreasing base and increasing carry weight means you need to move something from one category to the other. For example, if you chose to go cook-less, you could decrease your base weight (no cooking system) and possibly increase your carry weight (no cook foods may have more water weight).
Obviously the scenario I came up with is not a given - some people choose to go cook-less, and decrease both base & carry weight.
-FA
shaughnessey34
10-30-2014, 18:45
If pack weight is as said, you are probably looking at gear upgrades to cut weight, which is pricey, but if your gunna be carrying it 2000 miles, it will be well worth it thru and thru
I did some shopping this week bought a bunch of new light weight gear. My final carry weight was 23.7 I will be relying on my dog to carry food which has done for the entire section of Maine